Don't know where to turn. My wife has it in her head that I'm unfaithful and she's so angry all the time. She picks at every thing and calls everything a lie. We've been in a fight for years now ever since she accused me of having feelings for another woman. I did business with this woman and was just trying to make a sale. She says looking back on our marriage that I've always had too close friendships with other women. We are just friends.

Everytime I talk to another woman (especially about our marriage) I get into trouble. When I talk to another woman about the marriage all I have ever done is try to find information to help the marriage and she calls all the women I talk to affairs or improper, or so something. She expects me to give up all my friends for her. I love talking to women. I just have a more natural affinity to them. I have done nothing wrong. I'm sick of this. I have given up alot of good friends. It's never enough. If she finds out about me talking to someone about our marriage, even if it's just 5 minutes she gets crazy.

There have been some misunderstandings but they were not lies.I was getting help from another woman and my wife found out and went ballistic. This was a good friend of hers. Oh, but not anymore! She accused us of having an emotional affair.

How can I get her to lighten up and go forward and stop harping on me? Anyone been through this???

Your wife is correct in her thinking that your discussions about marriage and other intimate topics of conversation are inappropriate. Friendships with the opposite sex are dangerous to your marriage. This is why your wife has a problem with your friendships with women.

Marriage Builders starts with the "Policy of Joint Agreement:" do nothing without the enthusiastic agreement of your spouse. This includes the choice of friends.

The Policy of Radical Honesty goes hand in hand with the POJA.

If you do not follow these two foundational principles, doing what you please regardless of your wife's feelings, your wife's love for you will be undermined. Also, affairs usually begin with a friendship with the opposite sex. While it may not have happened yet, it's a very real concern and risk.

Take a look at the following link and let us know what you think.

Summary of Basic Concepts

Listen to the MB radio every day by clicking "Listen Now" on the Home page, and you will learn a great deal about building a great marriage.

Last night my wife read off a list of about 10 woman friends. She has a catalog of all the things she says are violations of the marriage.

I don't think i have to tell her everything that I do and say.

awhile ago I told her I'd stop talkling about the marriage to other women and she is like a parana if she finds out I slipped.
So I slipped again? So what? It was a friend of hers. She thinks we both withheld the converation from her. We didn't do anything wrong, we didn't tell her but, again, I can't tell her everything. Finally the friend let it slip that we'd had the talk and she acts like it's a conspiracy.

I've had some women come on to me in the past. That's my fault too. I visited one of these women at her house, alone, and my wife now thinks I was interested sexually in her. Just because she was coming on the me. Everything I do is interpreted in the worse light.

The way you get her to lighten is to stop what you are doing. STOP IT.

Real easy. Stop flirting with women, stop having inappropriate relationships with women, STOP having opposite sex friendships. Your wife is harping because your lovebank is OPEN to everyone else and you are driving her crazy.

So its real easy. If you want her to stop harping then start acting like a married man.

You have inappropriate boundaries around women and if you don't shape up your wife is going to fall out of love with you. Ignoring her complaints is going to destroy your marriage.

Wow....if you truly wanted sympathy for your point of view on the internet you couldn't have found a place more diametrically opposed to it if you tried.

In a nutshell...your wife is 100% right (I'm sure she's not perfect but based upon what you posted above)

Some questions:

1. Why did you get married to this woman?
2. Are you marriage material? Why?
3. Why do you feel you NEED the admiration and attention of other women?
4. Would you never speak to another woman again if it meant your wife would be completely in love with you?
5. Are you interested in fixing your marriage or just winning an argument?

Mr. W

Yeah...now I'm on your side. Why she doesn't trust you is beyond me. She's a monster.

Do you believe you're own bullcrap or are you just toying with us. I'm a stranger on an internet forum and even I don't believe you...why should your wife? Because you said so?

W

I can't imagine why that woman thought you were easy pickin's when all you did was come to her house! How could that be your fault!??

Are you for real?

I'll let you help this one Melody...I've got to go visit some lady friends alone at their houses. It'll be fine as long as they don't hit on me.

Mr. W

Look, my wife is mad all the time. It doen't take anything to set her off. Sometimes I have to hide thigs because, as i said, she interprets everything as an affair. My women friends are single and so I'm not hurting anyone. I like women, so what.

She checks my cell phone, just because she found me talking to another woman. She asked us to stop and we did for awhile, but she was helping me. It was during a really hard time in the marriage and I needed some help.

If I clown around with another woman, like a funny email, or anything she acts like I'm trying to get a affair going.

This has been going on for several years now, ever since ssome friends told her I thought this other woman was really attactive. I was just doing business. This is the one who I was making a sale with. That set everything off. She interprets the terms of the sale to be too much in the favor of the other woman. I did do some dumb things after the sale, but I just wasn't thinking. It's my wife who's greedy for trying to get every dime out of this other gal.

I thought you people helped others.

I think some improvement is needed in the bullcrap department because I know 9 year olds who could be more convincing.

Hey MSAccused, does your wife burst out laughing when you come up this bullcrap? Seriously, it is very primitive and most 5 year olds could do better.

Maybe a lesson in the art of bullsh**?

You hide things...because? Can she kick your butt? Are you afraid of her?

Being a coward is not a legitimate excuse to hide things. Instead of hiding things why not stop doing things you have to hide? At least don't be a coward when you do things you know she doesn't like.


It hurts your WIFE. Remember her?

Is it your goal to hurt your wife?

Then STOP IT.

Just one question, how would you feel if your wife was doing everything you are doing with guys.

Yes we do...but YOU are the "others" not your wife. She's on to your games and seemingly quite aware that you are a danger to her. You put your relationship with other women ahead of her. So again...I ask...Why did you even get married? Married men don't have a bunch of single female friends nor do they "visit" women alone in private places without their spouse. You think and say you've done nothing wrong which is SHOCKING to happily married people and, I bet, just magnifies your wife's pain.

Do YOU want help with YOUR problems?

Mr. W

Patient: Doctor, my arm hurts when I move it like this!!

Doctor: STOP MOVING IT LIKE THAT!

When you get married, your lovebank should be permanently closed to other women. It should only be open to YOUR WIFE.

Yours is open to every skank that walks down the road. THAT is why your wife complains. She should NEVER be put in a position to compete with other women. NEVER. And you do this to her all the time.

Stop acting like a weasel and show her some respect, care and love for a change.

I'm trying to establish that I'm innocent. I admit to having women friends.

I'm trying to tell my story and be honest about what I've done so I can get help.

I think this is a set up..she told to me to post here. That these people had good heads on their shoulders. Everying isn't what you say it is.

I just thought of something.

My wife did have a friendship years ago and it hurt me deeply. So she's not so innocent. She dosen't have men friends becasue of that.

Yeah, well, that's how it starts MS. Just have a look at my thread. All the same S* you are defending is what my WW did and now look where we are at. It started with "just friends" texting. That turned into 1000's (Literally) of texts per month. Then drinking with him/them talking about how our marriage is in trouble.

Time to open your eyes, fix yourself and save your Marriage, or throw in the towel and save everyone the trouble. They say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" well, clearly you sir are broken, and if you don't fix it, she will. Whether it's once you finally find yourself in a full blown affair or she gets tired of your crap. Good luck to you.

You are not innocent. You go out of your way to hurt your wife. What kind of a husband does that?

So your wife is mad all the time because of your OS friendships and you justify this in saying "I like women, so what?"

She checks your cell phone because of your OS friendships and you are upset by this?

"I did some dumb things after the sale" what does this mean?

"It's my wife who is greedy....." Look guys it is really her fault.

"I thought you people help others." Yeah, we do. Sometimes help does not arrive in the pretty package you expect.

She showed caring for you and stopped having friends of the opposite sex. Why won't you do that for her?

Why would you place these "friendships" above your wife's happiness?? All you are doing is telling her you care for them than her.

So you're trying to establish that you're innocent of having conversations with other women that hurt your wife?

You're trying to establish that you're innocent of contacting other women when she's clearly told you that this hurts her?

Either you are guilty of doing these things or you're innocent.

Do you establish that you have not contacted other women AFTER your wife has asked you not to?

My point is she is suffering because she won't accept that i've done nothing wrong.

I made some finacial concessions after a sale that she thinks means I was taking care of the other woman. But, I say she's greedy becasue we got enough money from the sale. Got IT! This was years ago, and she still brings it up.

She doesn't have men friends because she says she dosen't want to do anything that even looks improper. Very high minded.
I can't help it if women call me and like me.

I love my wife and would neve be unfaithful

Your wife is suffering because you cannot accept that you are doing something wrong.

Weird, you have more female friends than I did when I was in high school (and I am female). Is it fair to say that you seek admiration from other women? That this admiration hurts your wife? That you hide things involving other women from your wife? Seems pretty clear.

Are you under the impression that you must tell another woman that you are in love with her or have sex with her in order for it to be cheating? Because that is basically what you seem to be arguing.

You sound like someone who just shouldn't be married because you do not respect your wife at all. You do not respect healthy boundaries in a marriage. Why are you married? I don't understand? Even many young single women do not have as many female friends as you, so who are you trying to kid that there is nothing wrong with your behavior?

She is suffering because you are NOT innocent. You have shown a complete lack of care for her feelings by having opposite sex friendships. You know it hurts her and you continue.

So yes, you HAVE done something wrong. YOU HAVE HURT YOUR WIFE AND CONTINUE TO DO SO.

The point is that your wife is suffering because you keep doing whatever you please, in spite of your wife's feelings about it. You should not have woman friends. Most people don't go out looking for affairs. But many people find that one of their friendships becomes more than a friendship.

Your wife is doing the right thing by protecting her love bank, her marriage by avoiding friendships with men. You should also avoid friendships with women. Period.

Have you read the basic concepts of this website? Following them will lead to a great marriage. Continuing to do what you please will help to destroy your marriage.

My suggestion to your wife:

Please consider separating from this man until he gets his act together. He is very uncaring and places his opposite sex friendships ABOVE your feelings and above your marriage. You come LAST in this equation. He treats other females better than you.

And he is headed right for an affair because he has such pathetic, inappropriate boundaries with women. He is the kind of guy who would have an affair just to punish you. He is dangerous to you.

How old are you, boy?

I think this is a wind up.

No one could be this uncaring and thoughtless of their wife..!

I mean to make random female acquaintances and clients a priority, and to put your wife last on the list...

Is one thing..

But expecting a marriagebuilders site to support such cruelty too?

He simply can't be for real.



Not if you're helping yourself to cheap, easy feminine attention whereever whenever you feel like it.

Telling your wife to put up and shut up.

Definitely a prankster!

You did something that made your wife unhappy and then accuse her of being "greedy" when she objects? This is your idea of love and care? This is our idea of ABUSE and MANIPULATION.

You could have avoided all this if you would have not done anything with this woman without your wife's enthusiastic agreement in the first place. Instead you treat this friend better than your wife.

That is NOT caring.



Yes, you can. You can stop acting like a weasel and start acting like a married man.


You are the kind of person who has affairs all the time. Saying you wont' be unfaithful is meaningless. The people who have affairs are the ones who say they will never have an affair. They are the ones - like you - who have no boundaries.

Just hilarious!

These women have got him thinking he's something special when he neglects his wife in favour of their friendship!!

That is the action of an egotistical boy.

Not the behaviour of a man.

If your wife is an MBer she'll be OK without you though.

I'm sure she'll give you a set amount of time to start being less selfish and egotistical before calling the lawyer though.

How much time do you think you have?

You torment your wife and then call her names like "angry" and "greedy" when she objects to your cruel treatment. That is called GASLIGHTING. Your wife should not put up with it. You are an uncaring, thoughtless, manipulative husband who does not care for his wife.

What are the ages of yourself and wife?

Children?

How long married? Any previous marriages?

I never thought my wife would be unfaithful either but guess what I am now in a fight for my marriage.

LOL.

If you are sincerely for real........you have much to learn. Much. Mucho. Lots.

When you call your wife 'angrry' and 'greedy'

You do it not to ease her pain, but to shut her up.

You want her to suffer in silence while you flirt for free attention from other women.

Shame, shame, shame on you.

A real man is CONCERNED when his actions/friensdships/decisions are hurting his wife.

He doesn't insult her in an attempt to shut her up.

Putting female friendships ahead of her feelings is NOT faithful and it is not loving.

Your won't let your wife have men friends but you can have women friends.

What are you smoking?
How long have you been writing fiction?

I think this is a real young kid, which is why I asked how old of a boy he is. Still waiting on the answer.

I'm mid 50's. Married many years. I'm not a kid or a boy.

I don't know what to make of the comments. You all sound like her.

You ARE seeing and speaking to other women alone.
That is NOT okay.

We agree with your wife.

You don't sound like a grown man; you sound like a selfish teenage boy. Your wife is probably a grown up and that is why you think we sound like her. You don't like the opinions of other grownups.

I would ask that you send her here and show her my post about separation. If you persist on continuing to make her suffer by placing your "friendships" above her, she needs to separate.

Are you seeking advice/help/assistance on having a great marriage?

Or are you seeking help and affirmation of getting "her inline"?

I am not going to show her these posts. You all have savaged me.

It is still my opionion that the problem is her not understanding. I have always had many female friends. It's only in the last few years that she is completlely unreasonable about it. I think it's completely unreasonable to have no opposit sex friends.

I've said I'm sorry and she keeps on being mad. She can't let it go and she's living in the past.

That's not my fault.

And yes, I'd like some undersatnding that it's possible to have friends and be innocent of affairs.

I am also seeking help in having her to understand that i have done nothing wrong.

Once I lied about a friend, she caught me in the lie. Now everything is a lie. i can't stand it. It offends me to be called a liar and to be accused of afffairs. Is that so hard to understand

It is your fault that you torment your wife with thoughtless behavior and cause her to suffer.

So in other words, you don't care if your wife suffers. That is the very definition of not caring.

This is why she should separate from you. You are a dangerous, uncaring spouse who punishes your wife when she objects to your cruel behavior.

Dr Harley does not recommend that women stay with abusive men.

My STXWS did not see it an "issue" having OS friendships, or even having OS friends getting "marital advice" from either. Oh yes, this OS friendship turned into a full blown affair.

You are walking on thin ice by insisting there is nothing wrong with an OS friendship. You are putting your friendships ahead of your wife.

What is most important to you? Your OS friends or your wife?

You are not innocent and you have done something wrong. You have friends of the opposite sex and practice poor boundaries around women. You do this even though you know she suffers.

So no, you are not innocent. You are man who does not care for his wife. You place your "friendships" above her happiness.

Ummmmmmm, say what? Are you actually reading what you post?!

We will help by validating that she is RIGHT and she should separate if you don't stop it. It is very wrong to harm your spouse as you are doing.

Your sorry is meaningless when you keep doing the same thing. Unfortunately, your reckless behavior is not in the past, it is in the present.

It is not abuse to not be guilty and say so.

All these women are not as attractive as my wife, who is very good looking.

She used to be okay with these friendships now she claims to be neglected, hurt, traumatzed. whatever.

I feel like she is trying to control me.

Yes, she is trying to stop you from hurting her and you have refused. The recommendation by Dr Harley would be for her to separate until you learn to stop your abusive, thoughtless behavior.

Your wife has told you that your opposite sex friendships make her unhappy and you have REFUSED to end them. That shows her that you care more about your friendships than you do her.

What kind of a husband does that? What kind of a man wants his wife to suffer at his expense? An uncaring husband, that is who.

I'm punding my head!

The woman who I lied about was a mutual friend. She helped me and I went to her to see if she knew why my wife was so mad.(my wife talked to her also)I was only trying to get info about the the why's. She was also a nurse, I thought my wife might be sick or something.I was trying to help. Wife finds out, asks us to stop "being a comfort to each other" and so we stop. But, things in the marriage got worse and so we kept in contact. Wife finds out goes balistic. I agree not to talk to her anymore, she means nothing to me. We have one more phone conversation, wife finds out, asks me about it, I say I didn't talk to her. (again, she means nothing to me and I didn't want to upset wife)She check cell phone finds out about the lie and things get bad. Friend comes over to talk to wife, wife throws her out. Now wife insists that there was more there than there was. I admit nothing.

Pounding, that is.

I could write 10 paragraphs about what is wrong here (I read page one and then page six - none in between as I do not care about the between one and six), but they have already been written. Why on earth would you put some other woman in front of your wife? Or man, for that matter? The conversations that you have described here with women other than your wife are so inappropriate that I want to spit bullets. Does that make me a controlling person, also? Nope. I just expect BOUNDRIES. You truly need to read here...A LOT. Please.

WHATTTTTT????? Sir, you MUST be joking. Abuse? You are asking about abuse?? Good Lord, brother. Please spend your time right here reading everything you can get your eyes on. It's all free. Start at the Home Page and click on Basic Concepts. To read all that will get you started will take about 6 hours. I did it, and you should, too. READ and LEARN. Then, come and ask questions and get much help.

Stop talking to other women about your marriage. That talk needs to be between you and your wife. Other women have no business in your marriage. See my previous comment. Your wife is dead-on correct. Stop pulling other women into your marriage. They don't belong there. Because talking to them meets some need for you. This doesn't work for a married man, though, and you may find out the hard way that it doesn't work for a married woman you're talking to. THEIR husband might have a little problem with you unloading your issues on their wives. It sounds like you've been sharing marital issues with a woman (women?) other than your wife. THAT'S WRONG. STOP IT. Now, why in the world would we get her to 'lighten up' when it's obvious that YOU are the one who needs to tighten up your boundaries? Your wife is spot on. You are on a slippery slope.

Have you read any of the articles on this site? Have you read the basic concepts of this site?

Dishonesty, selfishness, thoughtlessness, piss poor boundaries with other women. Like I said earlier, your wife needs to separate until you learn how to stop hurting her.

When a spouse REFUSES to end his "friendships" with members of the opposite sex there usually is an affair so I understand why she doesn't believe you.

Your bullcrap is just not convincing.

Why would you play with fire like this?

How old are you? How long have you been married? Do you have any children?

She SHOULD be mad. You are displaying horrible boundaries.

How about you eliminate the girl friends and see if your wife's temperment improves? I will bet you (and win) that it will.

LOSE THE WOMEN FRIENDS. END OF ISSUE. Good for her. She is invested in her marriage and has done some homework. Please ask her to post here so we can support her - hopefully before you drive your marriage into the ditch with some female "friend".

No, that's not why she's suffering. Stop avoiding responsibility. She's suffering because you are not stopping an action that causes her to suffer. Duh. A loving husband would jump on changing that action post-haste. And yet, you aren't. Why not?

MS, glad to see you're still here. That gives me hope for you. Please answer my questions: How long married? Any kids?

What is she living in the past about?

That's as far as I needed to read.

What are you looking for from us, MS. Validation of your dangerous actions? We're not going to help you with that. We'll help you BUILD your marriage, not DESTROY it.

YOU will have to be on board with that. At this point you are not. You want to keep the hits you're getting from other women and keep your wife, as well. I can assure you that your plan is doomed for failure. Your wife is losing love for you every day you continue this behavior.

Do you want to secure your marriage, or do you want to get support for continuing your dangerous practice? Let us know.

Your wife is going to fall out of love with you, if she hasn't already.

Quit defending yourself, admit you have been thoughtless and uncaring, and cut off all contact with other women.

Focus your attention, time, and energy on the woman you married....

If you wish to remain married (you don't sound as though you do)

I am sorry you are having trouble with the different world view presented here.

Your world view is commonly held BUT not in the best interest of a great marriage that transcends all other things in real romance.

If you want a brilliant and truely romantic relationship......heed our replies to your original post and study this site and perhaps order the books written by Bill Harley who created this particular site.

The information on this website is based on logic and psychological facts and will get you one awesome marriage should you figure it all out and follow it.

and, if you don't bother to figure it out, your life won't be that fabulous. It will be a pale excuse of a life and marriage and etc.

Just a fact.

Please read.
Are "Friends" a Threat to Your Marriage

Well you can duct tape her mouth.
Then you won't hear her complaints. Or get ear plugs.
Or divorce her and then it won't be a problem.

A far better solution would be to follow the policy of joint agreement. (Never do anything without your wife's enthusiastic agreement).
Following this policy would ensure that you and your wife both are listened to.

Thank you, BH, although somehow I get the feeling that MS isn't interested in reading the articles here...correct me if I'm wrong, MS...

Why would a woman who calls herself your wife's friend agree to meet you in secret so as to rake over her personal business with her HUSBAND!!!

Your marriage is NONE of her business. The two of you meeting in secret so you can call your wife 'sick'. Um yeah, that sounds extremely unhealthy and wrong.

Friends aren't like that. A true friend wouldn't interfere in a marriage.


She's clearly a horrible person who would rather chit chat with men than be a true friend.

And you put that imposter ahead of your clearly intelligent, much better-looking wife?

That is HUMILIATING for her.

I would tell your wife to run and not look back.

If you're like this in your fifties, you're unlikely to change and start putting her first.

He doesn't want to change.
He thinks his wife needs to be fixed so she won't care

I just read this thread, from the beginning.

That is fifteen minutes of my life that I would like back.

NG I agree

I just can not believe the lack of care this man has for his wife.

I mean .. if his wife was out and going over to peoples homes and using her sex appeal to make sales and having inappropriate convos with other men and telling them how horrible their married life is. Would he be ok with that? I highly doubt it. In fact I bet the men she would talk to would gladly take her up or tell her what she wants to hear to earn her favor. Buts its OK though .. they are single. Geeesh ...

I bet he would be acting all jealous while she argued they were "just friends" and "its no big deal" or "I was just trying to make a sale" .. after all ... they were just talking about marriage problems. Whats the harm in that? Informing opposite sex friends that your marriage is on the rocks? Exposing your feelings about your wife and hard ships to another woman to sympathize with? Seeking marital advice from women who are not married?

Keep digging that hole my friend ... and you will not have a wife for much longer. She will find someone who will listen to her .. who will respect her .. who will put her feelings above that of "sales" and "other women". Then you will be back here ... trying to find out what happened. Trying to kill her affair... Dont let it go that way. Listen to the tough love you are getting here. WE are not speaking out of our a$$es.

People who claim that they will NEVER have an affair are usually the first to fall victim to it because they lack boundries ... especially when their needs are not getting met in their marriages. Harmless chit chat turns to regular chit chat ... which turns to the daily need to talk to that person .. which turns to love bank deposits ... which turns to romantic love .. and POOF .. all of a sudden your wondering what the heck happend and your in too deep. Dont follow that path ...

FEELINGS FOLLOW ACTIONS. Your doing dangerous actions .. and eventually (even though you claim they will not) your feelings will follow because your wife will move into withdrawl and no longer want to meet any of your needs and you will seek your needs to be met from the women who have been listening to you gripe about how bad your marriage is.

MNG

You are asking for approval from, by and large, people who have been abused in the exact manner you are abusing your wife. However, yours is even more brutal, you dont even hide it from your wife. Most of us had spouses who concealed pathetic, selfish behavior until caught. You couldnt give 2 s---ts what your wife thinks.

I gave up on reading the first few pages up until you said your are in your 50s.

**EDIT** You deserve it and she does too.

Thank you MSS......i did need to clean my computer screen.

*sniff sniff*



This does not pass my baloney test.

This thread is a potential goldmine for wayward "fog translation".

Come on you people.. I thought you were here to "help"

MSaccused, I love your sense of humor.

I was thinking of you when I initially posted......."where is Pep? Pep would have a field day with this"

You are the Queen of fog-translation.

In this case, I believe it to be entirely fictional.

I'm calling troll on this. But in case I'm wrong...

You need to really get over yourself. All this I can't help it if women like me. This sounds like my high school students. You're in your 50s, the days of worrying about having a bunch of friends and being popular is over. I promise you're not as cool as you think you are.

Look, if your wife is upset, stop doing things that make her mass.she is your number one priority. She quit having male friendships because they hurt you, maybe she should just keep make friends and use the same justifications you do.

Your spouse is your best friend. Would you want to be friends with someone that did things that make you mad.

I know I called troll too,but he DOES sound an awful lot like my FIL whose just turned 60.

Lots of female friends. Active social life. All skanks in the centre and pitying glances from the real grown ups.

Everyone is too polite to tell him but he makes a fool of himself when he's lapping up the attention.

He has no idea people laugh at him. He calls my MIL 'angry' and says 'jealousy is a sickness'. She's at the end of her rope and close to leaving now the kids are older.

He thinks people would agree with him too.

I think he is the KING of FOGDOM!!

So, what do I do about the past mistakes.

My wife seems as if nothing will suffice but that I admit some wrongdoing. She gets mad mad mad when I say, "okay i'll stop". That doesn't seem to do it.

I know we've been having this argument for years but what can I do? All I can do is go forward. She wants a poly and she wants to ask all these questions and it won't do any good digging up the past.

She has a problem with forgiveness and she's a bitter woman.

I just want to move forward. She keeps bringing up the past. And she also says it's her present (as one of you posted) but as, I said, I've given up alot of friends. I get no credit.

I will not admit to doing anything wrong.

Well of course she gets mad, you say that and then don't do it.

It will do her good to know that she knows everything. Bitter? I would be bitter too if my husband was gallivanting about and pretending nothing was wrong and blaming ME FOR IT ALL.

You are wrong.

The sooner you realize that, the sooner your recovery from all this can be.

The problem is, she is unfairly compared with others so you feel free to ignore her attempts to stop you behaving like a buffoon.

When you speak to women who have zero investment in you, they couldn't care less about you being a good man. Or that people laugh at you for chasing women. They just want fun, pretty words. They don't give a hoot about how YOU look.

But your wife wants you to be the man she used to be proud of. For you to be a man who steps up to the plate. A man who undoes his wrongs with manly actions. Do the poly.

So what if you 'said' sorry. Words are weak. Words are for the bimbo friends.

They don't care how foolish you look as long as everyone sees them being admired and befriended over their good looking friend by her husband.

Your wife wants ACTION. She knows full well that all your friends are laughing at your folly and she wants real change.

Or she'll leave.

I know! Right?
Rule #1 straight from Dr Harley himself .... NEVER admit anything !!!

It's amazing how quickly you've picked up MB basics to a long, loving, happy marriage!
It's known as Radical Never Give An Inch. Especially if your spouse is unhappy. Never give in!

A passed poly is like gold in the hands of the betrayed spouse, and is the first payment for the debt you owe.

You aren't serious, and one way we (and your wife) can tell is that you won't take a poly. Another way we can tell is that you won't read the articles on this site.

Would you like admiration from your wife, MS?

The real deal? Passionate love of your character, gratitude for the care you show of her feelings?

Her knight in shining armour?

Of course you could carry on settling for the admirition of silly female friends... But who wants fools gold when you can have the GOOD stuff!

(PsSsst.. We know how you can get your wife's passionate admiration.

Psssssssssssst. It costs a little more in terms of deeds than the cheap bimbo kind.....

PSssssssssssssssssssst But its SO nice to experience.

PSssssssssssssssssssssssssst let us know if you're interested)

Then this program cannot help you, since one of the cornerstones of this program is Dr. Harley's Policy of Radical Honesty: Reveal to your spouse everything you know about yourself.

If you aren't willing to follow the program, it will never help you. I suggest you go find one of the magic programs that helps you without you having to do intimate and vulnerable things like this.

Yep. Here's help. Read and do all of the following, and your wife will not be mad any more:

Video: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi1001_infidelity0.html
30 articles to read: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5525_qa.html
10 concepts to learn and implement: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3000_intro.html

It's help, it's free. You're welcome.

Why? Even if you are not innocent, the free help here can show you how to create a good marriage that makes your wife happy. Even if you are innocent but your wife thinks you are not innocent, the free help can still accomplish your goal: make your wife happy.

So, is your goal really a happy wife? You can do it, if you'll accept the help (read and do the stuff required).

Establishing innocence is a TOTAL WASTE OF TIME.

That's a great idea. You should both do that.

The program here can show you how to have a good marriage that makes her and you very happy, even if she is not innocent.

If you will read and do what is written on this site, she won't be suffering any more. You can alleviate her suffering if you choose to. What you can't do is demand that she change the way she feels. Only you can do that.

What are you willing to change?

What are you willing to do? Anything? Your current solution (wife needs to stop getting mad and living in the past), isn't working, so what is your Plan B?

Yes, she changed her mind. It's pretty normal. She will probably never be okay with these again, so what are you going to do?

Think of the one thing you absolutely DON'T want her to know.

Being brave enough to reveal that secret is called RADICAL HONESTY.

Women love radically honest men. Brave men. Not little boys with coy secrets. Those boys can only get bimbos.

Read all about Radical Honesty and let the idea sink in!!

Your wife is scared of what you'll do because your secrecy is scary for her.

Your wife is mad because you do things that she is not okay with, and because when she tells she is not okay with you doing those things, you continue to do them anyway.

There! Now you don't have to ask any more!

If you will read and do the things advocated on this website, your wife will not be mad any more. It is entirely up to you. It is not up to her. You are the cause of her feelings.

Here's a tip: staying in contact with this woman did not help your marriage. It hurt it.

Here's another tip: it probably won't help the next time, either.

Here's a cliche, but perhaps you've never heard it, so maybe it could be a tip for you, too: the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.

I am assuming you are not mentally impaired, and can understand that this will make your wife angry every time you do it.

Stop having conversations about how right they were. Nothing makes a mistake hurt more than explaining your own personal opinion that it really wasn't a mistake.

Read this site (the material written by the expert, Dr. Willard Harley -- the video and links I posted), and do what it says, and this will get better.

Question: are you lazy?

Answer: we'll find out. If you actually read and do what the site says, you're pretty industrious! If you're lazy, we'll know because you won't read or do these things.

We can most certainly promise you get credit for doing the right thing.

But your wife will need RH and proof like a poly. She'll also prob need to see you become an open book in every other area.


Will she post here? We can give her a good outlook for the future if you are fully on board.

If you wait until she leaves it will be almost impossible to win her back. Secrecy makes women very fearful. Most women need honesty to feel safe and bonded.

Right. Nothing will suffice but that you admit you did something wrong. That is what big boys and gurls do.


Because she sees right through it. She can smell your bullsh** a mile off. It isn't even good bs.


You have no idea what will do any good or not. Only SHE can tell you what she needs. Just the fact that you won't do a polygraph is an indicator you are hiding something. You should DEMAND a polygraph to clear your name.


You don't deserve forgiveness. And of course she is bitter after all of your abuse. Forgiveness is not an entitlement program for waywards. You have to EARN it.


If you want to move forward then:

a) change your skanky, immature behavior around women - drop all your OS friends

b) start acting like a big boy

c) offer to pass a polygraph

d) stop being a punk by being thoughtless and cruel and then calling her names ["bitter" "angry" etc] when she objects


You don't deserve any credit for continually and selfishly hurting your wife.

My vote is for separation, though. I don't think this boy is marriage material and will only continue to hurt his wife because of his shocking lack of maturity and empathy.

Sorry pal, but Mel's got your number and she's callin' you out.

I agree with her!!

I wonder if she posts. From MSs description, she's an MBer alright. Maybe she only reads here though.

If so, she's likely read 'when to call it quits' and is probably making her plans to divorce and find someone more respectful of her and less overt and friendly with other women.

Probably sending MS here is a last-ditch attempt before she calls it quits.

If you're reading Mrs MS, please post and let us know you're OK?

We're worried about you. Its not very nice to be called bitter, angry, sick etc when you are simply worried sick about the end of your marriage.

Perhaps we can help, or at least offer support? Hugs.

So, there's this cop, parked in his cruiser in the darkened lot of a roadhouse, waiting to pinch the drunkest patron exitting the joint at closing time, 1:00am.

With ten minutes to go, a fellow staggers out of the front door, misses the bottom step, and tumbles into the bushes. He dusts himself off, and weaves toward his car, burping and singing to himself. As he nears his vehicle, THREE TIMES he drops his keys and loudly curses his fate. The rest of the patrons exit the bar, and call to him, "Joe, are you okay to drive home?"

Answers the cop's target, "Suuure, I'm not drunk, juuuusht tired!" As he finally opens his car door, the other patrons drive off, and the cop waits for Joe to (finally!) start the engine. As he does so, the cop switches on the lights, and roars up to Joe's car. Jumping out, he reaches into the car, turns off the engine, and orders Joe out of the car, and gives him the tester tube to blow into.

Joe's result is a 0.00000 alcohol reading!

Stunned, the cop asks, "Why were you staggering to your car?"

And Joe smiles sweetly, and says, "I'm tonight's designated decoy!"

The way I figure it, this poster is the designated distractor, sent to MB by a consortium of WSs and APs, for the express purpose of tying up the attention of the correspondents, lowering their effectiveness in dealing with other, actual folks looking for counsel and support. Whaddaya think?

This guy is for real sorry to say...........


And his wife is at the end of her rope with the all his "Female Friends" involved the M.



nESRE

WOW. I think you need a tinfoil hat.

I think you are a very self centered person and you have a very uncaring attitude towards your wife.
You would probably do her a favor by just leaving the marriage if you have no intention of listening to her

The affair/s have all ready happened. It will take a little while for the web of lies to crumble the rest of the way but they will. They always do. Especially when the scumbags think they are smarter than everyone else.

You know what real men think of guys like you? We laugh. We laugh because you are a pathetic selfish little loser.

Real men take care of their wives.

Since you all sound like my wife and seem to think there is no other way of interpreting my friendships with other women what do I do.

I have apologized and she says it wasn't a sincere apology.

I have given up alot of friends.

I think I've been trying for the last 6 months. The latest friend who I talked with about the marriage was probably 1.5 years ago.
My wife just found out (there's really nothing to find out)and she is calling it deceit when it was just an omission because it was no big deal. This friend has recently gotten a divorce and my wife now thinks she is too dangerous to have around. I think she a bit too sensitive when she says that this woman and I both deceived her. She says she feels like she's the odd man out. I don't get this. She also seems to think that this "smacks of grooming". As if i spilled a little info to this woman to see if she'd keep my confidence, and so then I'd know I had a place to go for help and comfort when I need it. Doesn't this sound hysterical???

She is spitting mad and moved into the spare bedroom, won't talk to me, and is making such a big deal of nothing. I don't know if I can take it.

I've apologized and I think that should be it. She seems to expect perfection.

Go ahead hit me!

I'm not trying to be mean to you, but are you an only child ? Has life always revolved around you ?

People sense when they are being lied to. Leaving out information (omission) is deceitful and is lying.

No wonder she moved into the spare bedroom and won't talk to you. She doesn't respect you. Why would she ? We don't respect you and we don't even know you.

Your wife has the gift of discernment, sir. Do you have kids ? If you do, you should understand this very well.

I don't think she sounds hysterical. What's hysterical is your comment, "I don't know if I can take it".

No I don't think Ill bother. This site and our free advice is for people serious about marriage.

You are only serious about looking out for yourself.

Let us know when you are serious.

I'm out.

I really do hope you are a troll, because otherwise your cruelty and gaslighting is horrendous.

Either way, youre a waste of our time.

Bye.

What is wrong with me that I cannot admit to wrongdoing?

I think she'll leave me if I admit anything. She says I'm lying to myself that there was nothing between me and any other woman. Well, I am the one who knows my heart.

msaccused, why do you ?

msaccused say's I because it feels good when I stop.

I don't get it.

My friends (good christian men) understand me and know that I don't mean anything by these relationships and they think my wife is out of bounds. They think she should move forward.

Why are you MB's so right??

It's an honest question.

That's because you need to give what you promised in your vows.

Here is HOW you'll get it.... When you sit down with your wife and become Honest, Open & Willing.



As another "Christian Man" that always said opposite sex friendships are OK...... OH, I forgot to mention, I HAD AN AFFAIR because of that mindset.

Most of the men I know, "Christian Men", ascribe to protecting their wife and their marriages by "NOT" allowing opposite sex friendships in their lives. It really is very simple!

When we fight to keep women as friends, even a blind man can see the arrogance and foolishness..... But a wayward can see nothing except themselves, which is why marital seperation is the safest plan for your wife.

As a Christian, until you accept what scripture says about marriage, you're not safe as a spouse. (I was not safe either) Scripture says to Love your wife as Christ loved the Church. He was willing to lay everything down. That is the love we are called to give.

Are you willing to Love your wife? Honor Her? Cherish Her?

Forsaking all others......

These men are not friends to your marriage. While you're chucking friends, get rid of these, too.

NOBODY should be allowed to say your wife is out of bounds. Why aren't you upset with them for saying such a disparaging thing about your wife?

Do you want to stay married?

It's a stupid question because you are not married to them, are you? So it doesn't matter what they think, it matters what your wife thinks.

You are asking why it is right to stop hurting your wife? These "men" are not Christians if they think it is ok to hurt your wife.

Once again, you put someone ELSE before your wife. She just needs to separate from you.

To the MBers following this farce of a thread...

Remember the FIL, I told you about who I said was laughed at and pitied as an egotisical old fool?

He's very popular, bizarrely. I've seen him speak horrible insults about his wife to others. He'll say "jealousy is a horrible sickness, isn't it?"

Stunned and horrified the cornered friend says 'yes'. He prances off then to dance with some grinning woman as everyone looks a bit aghast. Then they will ask me if his marriage is OK. I even seen some of these shocked people then warn his wife to 'watch him'. Some people even tell her to leave him.

He has NO IDEA. None. No one says it to his face.

He runs with a church crowd too. Church people can be a bit too polite.

They laugh at him all the time but they will never speak out. They see it as his responsibility to grow up on his own.

Dr Harley covered this subject on 9-24 on the radio and he told the wife to separate from her husband. Her husband was a playah and a big flirt. He advised the wife to separate.

That is what your wife needs to do, son.

If these faux-Christian men claim to understand you, and you want to recover your marriage, you need to run far, far away from them. Cut them off like a cancerous tumor.

If you want to get the real story, you and your wife should meet with them and their wives and THEN ask them what they think. I'll bet their "understanding" would change very quickly.

I wonder if the Christian men allow him to have private meetings with their wives? In which he and these women are verbally trashing their marriages?

Surely it would be 'out of bounds' for them to object?

"When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends."

your friends are men who tell you its okay to have women other than your wife as friends who you meet without your wife and your friends are women who are not your wife who think its fine meeting alone with a married man.

Re-craft your friendships and by doing so.....perhaps yourself and your marriage.

Your wife ought to be your most intimate and true friend and all others should support that. Period.

MSaccused, here's something I learned the hard way on opposite-sex friendships:

The only such friendships that are advisable are friendships where your wife (and the other woman's husband, if she is married) is(are) party to every correspondence & approves of the content -- substance, style & tone -- of the discussion. Other than under those circumstances, you're just pokin' at a hornet's nest.

And talking with an opposite-sex friend about issues in your marriage (or hers) is never OK. As soon as any conversation veers onto that territory, the only proper & safe response is to redirect the conversation onto another topic and, if the other person persists, to specifically recommend that he/she discuss it with a professional.

You have no business discussing your marriage with another woman; and no woman who's not your wife has any business condoning your sharing "confidences" in her.

I knew a woman once who started sharing "confidences" with me about issues she was having in her marriage. Like a fool, I listened. That was almost 4 years ago. And I've spent more than 1,000 days since then wishing I'd never given that woman the time of day. Because I ended up getting into an affair with her. I stupidly put my foot out on a slippery slope the first time I listened to her & didn't shut the cnoversation down. I figured I was grown-up enough (hell, I was 41 years old) to put the brakes on anytime, and I was stupid enough (stupid as you are, for sure) to decide to selfishly enjoy the thrill of having another woman share confidences with me. And if you're looking for emotional "comfort" (your own word, not mine) from a woman who's not your wife, you're already halfway down that slope, my good buddy. That's so, even if you've got your head too far up your own crack to realize the truth of it.

And your "Christian men" friends? I'll wager that most self-professed Christian men have no clue about what causes affairs. I was such a Christian man myself.

If you've got questions, ask.

Very childish.

His wife brings up a pressing issue, which as a grown man she expects him to deal with appropriately.

Does he? Does he heck.

He goes out with his friends and whines like a teenager.

Then comes home and says 'But But but ....my friends are allowed to'

When really they are just being yes men. Real friends would tell him he's an embarassment.

I really hope her separation arrangements are going well. She must be very fed up of being the only grown up around.

Ah but of course they all find it more productive to gang up and criticise MS's poor wife, while keeping their own safe at home.

As a woman who is divorcing herself, I would be HORRIFIED if my friend's husband showed up at my home to comfort me.

That is a seriously creepy and vulnerable vulture move on a distressed woman.

I have even written a thread called 'vultures' about people like you.

Divorcing women get lots of OS friendships offered to them, in these, their darkest hours. Usually from married men.

Yuck.

My friends (good christian men) understand me and know that I don't mean anything by these relationships and they think my wife is out of bounds.

And their Christianity is best demonstrated by.....??

Going to church? Putting something in the collection basket? Singing well, or at least loudly?

If your version of "Christianity" is at all similar to mine, the sacrament of marriage forms a man and a woman into "one flesh", loosely translated into including the needs and desires of each into that of both. Do you understand that idea? You can no more casually or maliciously hurt or insult your bride than you could do so unto yourself. Her pain is meant to be your pain. You are joined before God into ONE BEING, before Him.

Look, I'm no great religious scholar (CP and CV: Help!), but ask those good Christion men of your acquaintance to explain how they feel your bride is being unreasonable when the one person, to whom she is immutably joined, would hurt her so egregiously and viciously. I would like to hear their answers.

Ding, ding, ding!!! One nugget of truth...

If you want to be divorced, keep dismissing your wife's concerns, feelings, and VALID complaints...just don't whine that you are surprised as she has clearly told you for YEARS and you don't care.

I'm still wondering why you even want to be married to a woman you describe as crazy, hysterical, oversensitive and who you obviously think is stupid.

When a handful of clueless people get together and pool their collective cluelessness, this typically doesn't result in raising anyone's knowledge level.

For advice from friends to be worth anything, someone in the group of friends has to be able to tell his own [censored] from first base & actually know what he's talking about on the subject being discussed!

I can't help but think that these are the kind of Christian men who get to the part about "Wives, submit to your husbands" and just stop reading.

**EDIT**

MS

When was the last time you sat in church next to your W.... and put your arm around her?

Do you even sit by her in church or do you sit with your female friends?

How about at socal functions? Where are you and where is your W?

How about a respectful conversation with your W? Has that happened in the recent past? Within the past year?

How about your free time activities? Do you invite your W to come along? Do you ever participate in her free time activities?

When was the last time you were intimant with your W?

Now when was the last time that intamcy lead to sex?

How about affection? A hug and a kiss? Remember those? You gotta give one to get one you know.........

What the F do a bunch of failing Christian men know about how a M should work from just the "Snipets" that are presented by you? Think your a little biased?

Don't expect you'll do much to answer these questions. Your too busy trying to prove your innocent of wrong doing concerning these Female Fiendships (not a typo) to take a look at other aspects of your R with your W that hurt her deeply.

Last question
As long as Wifey is at home (cookin/cleanin) you can see her anytime you want then why with the attitude you present (and we see) would she be special?


ANSWER
She isn't beacuse your needs are being filled by your Female Fiendships.

Its called emotional affair. Just as damaging to the Marital relationship as Physical affair.

nESRE

MS,

You keep coming back to post, which can be a really good thing. I do have a question, what are you wanting to accomplish?

I am reading the posts. It's fascinating. It's maddening.

I met with a pastor today, one that my wife has met with, and told him about our (my wife and myself) different perspectives on the other women friendships. We talked and he seemed to understand. I insist upon my innocents. We see it differently.

when I came home I told her I'd met with the pastor. She wanted to know what was said. I told her and she got mad again. She called the pastor and even said she wanted a divorce. This is news to me.

In truth, I don't recreate with her.

I don't sit by her at church funcions.

I don't dance with her at dances.

I do not show physical afffection to her...I'm not affectionate.

Our conversations are horrible.

She does wants she wants without me.

Social functions, I go my way she goes hers. I like to talk to people and I told her I get to see her at home. Ya, I know, you'll all think this is scandalous, but I like talking to people. She seemed okay with this.

Today she told me that I hurt her worse than her mothers death.

Dont know what to do with that.

I'm getting a bit suspicious becasue how did you know that we fight about all those things.

I agree this would be a good idea for her. The fact that you value your "friendships" with these women more than her should be enough for her to separate and get a divorce. When a husband is this thoughtless and abusive, that is the best solution.

You're killing me, ML.

x 2

No, you are killing your wife. Your thoughtless and abusive behavior is harmful to her. And she needs to separate.

Since you two do nothing together in public........why DO you want to stay married to her?

What emotional needs of yours does she fullfill?

Wouldn't life be so much more wonderful if you were

sitting next to her in church
danced
kissed
held hands in public
talked about all sorts of cool things

if she were your favorite and most constant recreational companion?

I don't know how it came to this. I don't think I'm doing anything so different from years past. My wife seems unreachable.

She says she snapped.She thinks I'll mistreat her untill the day she dies. I don't think I mistreat her, she gives as good as she gets. She's been pretty hard on me, too.

I honestly don't know how we got here. I've been trying.

You make her miserable with your mistreatment. So she has every reason to get out of this marriage. No one wants to stay with someone who makes them miserable.

There is nothing here for her except misery, so she gains by getting away from you.

Wow, what woman wouldn't jump at the chance to stay in that marriage?

What a catch!

What a life! It sounds miserable. No wonder your wife wants a divorce. What is it that are you getting out of the marriage? Why do you care about being married or not?

AM

I didn't think I was so bad. My wife always seemed happy.

I thought the marriage was ok. I knew she wanted more but I guess I like my independence. I know she made many adjustments to accommodate me. (because she tells me so)


Seriously, It seems like she's making something out of nothing. That is from my view point. I will consider what you've all offered.

Looks bleak.

I love her. That's what I get out of the marriage.

She is miserable. No woman would want to stay in such a miserable marriage. Nor should they. You sure couldn't get a woman to date you with that pathetic resume. yuck...


I support her plan to divorce you 100%.

Ah. You value your independent behavior, your dishonesty, your lack of meeting your wife's emotional needs. You are delivering what Dr. Harley calls lovebusters. Have you read the basic concepts here about the love bank, emotional needs and lovebusters? You have drained your wife's lovebank and she has had enough of your neglect and abuse to want out of the marriage. There is alot of reading for you here on the site and in Dr. Harley's books.

AM

You don't demonstrate love and care. You are abusive and thoughtless. No woman would ever be attracted to that.

YUCK!

If you love your wife and want to stay married, you will need to change. She does not love you and she wants out of the marriage. That's what people have been saying over and over in their posts. To stay married, you must change. Otherwise, separate and maybe divorce.

AM

She told the pastor today that the only starting point to any kind of reconciliation was that I, at a minimum, admit that the friendships (at the best) look bad and any reasonable person would think that something was wrong. Then I have to realize how badly she's been hurt. Then I can have no other friends...none.

I have already given up my friends.

But she also said that this would be a sort of peace but not really healing for her. If I'm innocent, what else could I do????

Match.com Dating profile for MSAccused

MSAccused
50 year old fella

Promises the following experience to any candidates:

1. No recreation - I don't recreate

2. Will go to church but don't ask me to sit by you

3. I won't dance with you at dances

4. I do not show affection - I am not affectionate

5. a horrible conversationalist

6. At social functions, you go your way, I'll go mine. I like to talk to people and I can talk to you another time. I like talking to people so leave me alone!

7. This is how I am and if you don't like it, buzz off!

I know the ladies would just line up at the door to get a piece of that action!!

ML, you are a mean, mean person. But, in spite of myself, I busted up laughing.

MB people can make you look so bad.

Goodnight.

Do none of it!! Tell her to buzz off! You ARE innocent, after all! You have a right to be YOU. Stand up for your rights!

From your first post: "We've been in a fight for years" One minute your wife is always angry and now she has always seemed happy. The marriage seemed ok to you...nevermind the years of fighting and your angry wife supposedly constantly flipping out on you. Which is it?

Hmmmmmmmmm

Swoon...sign me up!!

You know, we will never care for our own husbands after reading this! They can't compete!! Where can I get some of that action. Hold me back!! pant, pant....

Freeloader is unwilling to put much effort into the care of his or her partner in a romantic relationship. He or she does only what comes naturally and expects only what comes naturally. It's like a person who tries to live in a house without paying rent or doing anything to improve it unless the person is in the mood to do so.

Renter is willing to provide limited care as long as it's in his or her best interest. The romantic relationship is considered tentative, so the care is viewed as short-term. It's like a person who rents a house and is willing to stay as long as the conditions seem fair, or until he or she finds something better. The person is willing to pay reasonable rent and keep the house clean but is not willing to make repairs or improvements. It's the landlord's job to keep the place attractive enough for the renter to stay and continue paying rent.

Buyer is willing to demonstrate an extraordinary sense of care by making permanent changes in his or her own behavior and lifestyle to make the romantic relationship mutually fulfilling. Solutions to problems are long-term solutions and must work well for both partners because the romantic relationship is viewed as exclusive and permanent. It's like a person who buys a house for life with a willingness to make repairs that accomodate changing needs, painting the walls, installing new carpet, replacing the roof, and even doing some remodeling so that it can be comfortable and useful.

I watched my FIL treat my MIL for 30 years like this. Always right know matter how wrong he was. Being right was more important than the happiness of his wife. His friends both male or female always seemed more important.

Very Indpendant Behavior with it. At times he would drive out in the morning-be gone all day and never say a word as to his where abouts or what he did that day-sometimes days. MIL would find out FIL had been here or there from others. He had many female friends too. Never sure if he talked about his M to them or not.

At social events he had time for anybody else except my MIL.

I only saw them kiss once in 30 years and that was at the insitance for a photo at their 40th wedding anniversery from all of us kids. Never ever saw them hold hands or playful affection. Saw them dance together once.

At one time she confided in me as to how hurt she was. It was a conversation we had traveling that was never to leave the car. She broke down and sobbed how it was all her fault and she was never good enough and had know idea how to make it better. She was at the end of her rope but too old to start over or be on her own again.

They are still married yet today. I see no change in what has always been. No true happiness either. At 67 years old she still goes to work fulltime and a lot of weeks overtime. I don't even question why. She is only now starting to think about retiring. If she does she will loose a life where the people respect her and treat her with decency.

What has she got to sit at home for? Hasn't there got to be more than just waiting to die?


Independant Behavior all these years kept them from truely being close. As pointed out by other posters read about this on the site. It is under the LoveBusters (things that decrease your LB balance) section.







Since pastors, church, and such have been brought up do you see that you are to be the body of Christ here on earth? Where does that fit into the present treatment of your W?

There is a lot of reading here on the site that you need to get to. You may want to read up on the LoveBusters first so you can quit those. Also (and this may be edited out) a good book to read would be Tender Warrior-God's Intention For A Man by Stu Weber. This may be a good starting point as a guidepost to what your W is looking for from you as a christian husband. It may be what she has dreamed of and is wishing for in her christian life.

nESRE


PS:Hint-The book is about you putting down YOUR PRIDE and leading the M with Bible principles. Its very complimnetary to the MB's program. Its all full of Bible verses to back up what the author wrote.

MS: from left field, but hopefully helpful. As Melody, Armymama and so many others have asked...WHY would your wife want to stay married to you? That is not a rhetorical question.

Let us know literally. What value do you bring to your marriage? We might ask the same of your wife, but she is not here, is she? You are, so let's start with you.

Answer the questions, and then the folks here will help you with Emotional Needs and what you and your wife are missing. Have you read everything on this website? If not, start there if you are serious. It'll be about 4 hours of your time to really read everything and absorb the MB concept. It'll be the best 4 hours you will ever spend. Trust me. Read one hour...and come back then and tell me it's a waste of time?

Oh, and before you respond with how you will "try to and, thanks", your ship is on fire...sinking AND burning..., sir.

Would you like to dabble in investments in water?

This is my inlaws marriage exactly too. He does as he pleases and completely ignores her.

If MS had used any British English words I would have been convinced it was my FIL. He is always saying 'Ive been like this for years' 'My friends think it's OK' etc...

I know my MIL is desperately unhappy and thinks of leaving. Whenever she voices these feelings he dismisses them as 'angry' or 'jealous'. He really does think she will never leave such a catch!

Now the kids are all gone though, she is saving up for a separation. He is still utterly clueless.

I know that if she were here reading, she would agree that she needs to leave. All her excuses for him have run out.

She says things like this too.



MS's wife knows that he thinks he should be able to float along without putting much effort in. She gets it now. Which is why I think MS won't be her problem for too much longer.



But you aren't innocent. You are a neglectful, abusive husband who puts pretty much everybody, male and female ahead of his own wife.

That popularity contest wont keep you warm at night when your wife leaves you. They probably dont even like you all that much. The people you listen to arent honest, because when people are honest with you, you dont listen.

I don't know how it came to this. I don't think I'm doing anything so different from years past. My wife seems unreachable.She says she snapped.She thinks I'll mistreat her untill the day she dies. I don't think I mistreat her, she gives as good as she gets. She's been pretty hard on me, too. I honestly don't know how we got here. I've been trying.

Well, dude, it may be too late (the ladies here can speak to that better than I), but you have landed in the right place.

WE KNOW!

If you'll stop telling us we're wrong, and try listening to what is being said, and actually implementing the advice, your situation may be recoverable.

It may be difficult - for you to start the process, and for her to trust the new you - but until the divorce gavel comes down, the marriage has a chance.

But in the wise words of Confucius:
When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging, dude!

Check this page out! Its awesome.

You don't seem to have read any of the basic concepts on this site yet and here is a good place to start

(read the entire page)

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html

I told you exactly what to do. Did you even bother to read my posts? Honestly, you sound too lazy to fix this.

It doesn't matter how you interpret your friendships with other women. You can interpret them differently from your wife and us, if you like. The question is still "what do I do?" And the answer is on this site, and I helpfully gave you pointers in my posts to you yesterday. I spent a lot of time on them, and I'd like to think I wasn't wasting my time.

Please don't ask "What do I do?" again. It is a waste of time to keep asking when you've already been told. Let me know when you decide to actually get busy with my suggestions, and I will be happy to lend a hand!

This program is not for lazy husbands who expect to be spoonfed. You will have to pick up a book. You will have to do some reading. And that is the easy part. If you are too lazy to do even that, we cannot help you. Your wife will never feel better, and your marriage will probably fail.

But, hey, at least you'll be right, and your pastor will agree with you! That's something, right?

If you'll stop telling us we're wrong, and try listening to what is being said, and actually implementing the advice, your situation may be recoverable. - NG

Please don't ask "What do I do?" again. It is a waste of time to keep asking when you've already been told. Let me know when you decide to actually get busy - Markos

Well, MSA, you've done what many folks on this site have long felt impossible: You've managed to get Markos and myself giving you virtually the same advice on an emotional, highly-charged issue.

Take the extended hands of help, dude, or slap them away and proceed on your current, destructive, course. The question before you really is that simple. For your wife's sake, if not for yours, I hope you "get with the program".

Ditto.

High five, NG.

Have you read anything by the creator of this site, Dr. Willard Harley?

We here posting are all peers, not professionals.

Dr. Harley has been married nearly fifty years. He and his wife Joyce have preserved the feeling of romantic love for their entire marriage. He is a clinical psychologist who has counseled marriages for forty some odd years. He has saved thousands of couples from divorce, thousands of couples from infidelity, and thousands of couples from not being in love.

Have you read one single word of what he has to say on this site? He is the expert. This site is more than the forum. The forum exists to help learn and discuss Dr. Harley's concepts.

We can help you use those concepts to save your marriage and recover from this situation, but not if you are so lazy you won't read them.


Insisting on your innocence is a waste of time.

Good, your innocent. Wonderful. Lovely. It must be nice to be right when your marriage is falling apart and your wife is miserable. At least you are right! At least you are innocent!

Would you like for your wife to be happy? It is in your power to give her happiness.

Assuming you aren't lazy and self-centered. Right now it looks like you are more focused on yourself (i.e., whether or not you are innocent) than on her feelings (she is miserable, and you can learn to change that). Right now it looks like you are too lazy to learn what to do to change her feelings.


We have seen the same marital problems repeated thousands of times here.

I've listened to thousands of hours of Dr. Harley on the radio. Your story is not unique.

She is not unreachable. You just don't want to learn how to reach her.


Not hard enough to click a few links and read. Certainly not hard enough to actually follow the recommendations you'll find.

Giving her happiness is within your power.

Since I noticed you are consulting with your pastor, I thought I'd throw out this verse of Holy Scripture:
"My little children, let us not love in word, nor in tongue, but in deed, and in truth."
http://bible.cc/1_john/3-18.htm


Looks savable to me, but I've studied what to do here.

One thing you can do is claim it's impossible and use that as an excuse to not learn how it's possible.

You take the cake, MS. I posted links yesterday for you to learn what you could do. You didn't read them; instead you came back to whine that it's impossible and ask what else you can do.

And you're not really asking because you want an answer. You're asking rhetorically; you're really telling us that you can't do anything.

We're the wrong people to say that to, of course, since we are familiar with Dr. Harley's plan to save marriages and know that there is something you can do.

For starters, you can click the links I gave yesterday and start reading.

For your wife's healing, here is what you can do:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5042_qa.html
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5042b_qa.html
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5042c_qa.html

These articles are all included in the links I gave you to read yesterday.

ML is also some of the best help you can get here. I encourage you to stay on her good side, follow her advice, and live up to her standards.

MelodyLane cares more about your wife than you do.

If you'll listen to her, you'll do what it takes to care for your wife.

Care is an action, not just words.

MS, since you didn't read a word I said yesterday or read the links I posted,

but you did come back to this site posting questions that could've been answered from the links I posted,

And since you've indicated you are a good Christian man who goes to church and consults with your pastor in important life issues,

I wanted to share with you another thought from Holy Scripture:

[url=http://bible.cc/james/1-19.htm]

"You know, my dearest brethren. And let every man be swift to hear, but slow to speak, and slow to anger."

You would benefit from doing more listening and less talking. At least on this site that offers help to save marriages.

MelodyLane puts it this way (she learned it from Alcoholics Anonymous years ago): "Young man, take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth."

I hope the silence means you're reading diligently.

MS

Ironic you come on here proclaiming your innocence and will not give your W a clean slate to work with.

Another item we usually don't buy here is BLAMESHIFTING.



In terms of FOGBABBLE it means and others correct me if I am wrong......

MY wife may find out the real truth if I submit to the poly!

Huge lovebuster to assume your W can not handle the truth.

The truth is what sets you free.....Hmmm.... read that in a book somewhere....

Also frees your W of all the gaslighting <---(You might want to google this) you do and have done.

nESRE

nESRE

Please explain gaslighting

Thanks BH!


MS

Any of this stuff ring a bell for you?

Can't we just forgive & forget?

Hmmmmmmm, nothing from our correspondent
since the early hours of 26 September.
Does anyone hear......crickets?

Sounds

Because you people are MEAN!!