My husband & I have been married nearly 17 yrs. He is active duty military and I am an actor. For the past 7 years I have resided in LA & he has been living at his duty station. I just found out on 10/3 that he has been having an affair for about 3-4 months. To say the least, I am devastated beyond belief. I drove to his apartment because I got a strange disturbing email from him. I panicked & drove 9 hrs straight there only to find his apt empty. This was at 3 a.m. I panicked. Went to his work and he wasn't there either. He was with her.

I finally got to ask him what was going on the next day around noon. He totally admitted to the affair and I freaked. And I mean I freaked big time. Screaming, crying, shaking, heck, I even got on my knee's and begged him to stop seeing her and I'd quit acting and come back. He just kept saying that he felt like I had abandoned him and our marriage when I left to pursue my dream. But he never told me this or communicated his displeasure about our arrangements. He even drove the U-Haul here to LA. He never said a word!!

Since I've read 2 of Dr. Harley's books & read through this website I see where we have both messed up. We weren't there for each other and we lost our emotional closeness. I trusted him 100%. He is the last person anyone thought would be unfaithful.

I even drove to his town and he had taken leave for 4 days and gone on a trip with her. Knowing full well I was in town to see him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I had to come back to LA due to obligations here, but turned around 2 days later and came back. I finally saw him on 10/10 with the Chaplain. He stated that he just wanted out and didn't even want to try to rebuild our relationship. That it was too far gone and he was too angry. He also is very infatuated with this other woman.

I know nothing about this other woman except she is not in the military with him. And that's it. I think she has money because he has not withdrawn any money from our joint account and his entire paycheck goes in there. I think she is a bit of a couger or Sugar Mamma.

During my breakdown on 10/3 he couldn't even look at me. I know he feels guilty and he didn't know I was going to freak out so. Even during the counseling session with the Chaplain he could barely look at me. I never told him enough how much I loved him, cared for him and admired him. He on the other hand resented my job and career he never said he loved, cared or admired me either.

I just don't know what to do. He's out of state training now and then in January will be re-deployed back to the Middle East. I don't know if that is a good or bad thing. He will not return my phone calls and I leave him a message every day along with some text messages because that's what the Chaplain said to do. I am trying to rebuild something that he doesn't want to rebuild.

One part of me is telling me to pack my stuff & move back to his town and another part of me is saying don't until you know for sure he wants to try and make this work. I don't want to get stuck there with no job or money.

I am trying my hardest to get hold of his cellphone records. He changed his cellphone password. I even want to hire a PI to follow him when he gets home. I want to confront this woman and tell her to leave my husband alone.

I feel partially responsible for all of this, but he is too. We have huge communication problems. And the longer he is listening to this woman the harder it will be to try and get him back. I have told 3 of his work friends and his family knows and blames it entirely on me. My mom knows and just keeps telling me to be strong and hold it together. But I can't...

I just don't know what to do. I'm lost without him. The pain is nearly unbearable. I don't eat, sleep or think straight. I have lost 14lbs in since 10/3. I went to my Dr. on Friday and he gave me Xanax and Lexapro. Both make me sleepy and dizzy, but I don't sleep.

Went to the gym today and made it 15 min's into my workout and had a panic attack. Spent 10 min's in the bathroom vomiting up water and then had to have the trainer and gym members lay me on a bench for 20 min's giving me bites of power bar and sips of water. Just typing this I can't stop crying, shaking or sweating.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Going to try and get some sleep. Hope to see some advice in the morning.

Thank you all.

Hi LAsunshinegirl,

Welcome to MB... I'm sorry that you have the need to visit here, but you've come to the right place to learn about affairs and how to work through them.

It's good that you've read the books and articles here... not knowing the full story, I'm hesitant to give you any 'advice'...

I know how hard it is to be away from your spouse as I'm deployed now... Based on what you've told us, I would think that moving back with your H and doing whatever it takes to break up the A should be your number 1 priority.

7 years is a long time to live apart from each other... like you said, you are taking a risk if you move away from your career, but I guess it boils down to whether or not you want to try and work on your marriage or continue your career.

The evenings are very slow around here so hopefully you'll have some more replies tomorrow. I wish you the best as you make your decision on what you really want to do...

Semper Fi,

RIF

I am going to try and find out who this other person is.

LASun,

I would like to offer some advice, but I need more data.

You have been married 17 years. Are they any children involved? How old are you and your H? What were the plans when you move to LA 7 years ago? What did you two decide to do in making this marriage work, with this long separation? How often did you two get together?

Is it possible for you to take some vacation and move to where your H is located now?

Based on just speculation as I have little data, my guess is that your H feels you don't love him. Further, he has withdrawn from you, and this is a dangerous situation. You would rather have him mad at you than withdrawn.

Please read the articles about dealing with a withdrawn spouse. As you probably know the first step is to get the A to end and sometimes there is nothing you can do. Most often A's end on their own, but it can take a long time. Here is where you will need to learn about plan B.

If you two don't see each other often, how do you propose to meet his needs? Why was it not a problem for you that he did not meet your needs when separated and why did you think it would be good for you not to meet his needs while separated?

As you can see I am trying to see the reasoning, thoughts, and agreements you two had before this affair. It is a basis for offering some advice.

I would strongly recommend that you consider calling the Harley's and set up some counseling. They are best equiped to help you develop a plan to try and save your marriage.

Finally, take care of yourself. You need to be at the top of your game right now, and not eating, sleeping, will not leave you at the top of your game.

I look forward to hearing from you.

God Bless,

JL

We are both 38. No children. The thing is we never really talked about this stuff. We both just took it for granted. He helped me move out here, I thought he was fine with it. He doesn't talk alot. I would talk and he would never really reply to me.

LAsun,

Assumptions lead to resentment and
You two need to really talk and end the assumptions part. I am still confused as to how you could assume that living apart for 7 years would be a healthy thing. And by YOU I mean both of you. Has there ever been times when your H was jealous of your situation?

I keep thinking that there has been this huge disconnect and the assumptions you two made helped you avoid seeing it.

Keep us upgraded but I would really like to hear more about your thinking on your marriage before the A.

God Bless,

JL

Had another breakdown today. A dear friend stopped over, saw my condition and took me to the ER. Was in ER for 5hrs for heart palpitations, dehydration, anxiety and all around exhaustion. 2 bags of IV, atavan, blood sugar test and found out that I needed a good talking to with the shrink. Got a referal for a great one in Burbank. I call her tomorrow.

Find out who the other woman is and expose them to the military. That will end the affair, and then your husband will be more willing to work on the marriage.

I know she isn't in the military. That's what he says anyway, but I am getting as much info as I can and I'm going to start there & then a friend I have knows a good PI. Then I'm going to have the PI help me find out who she is, where she works, and if she's married etc...

Finally got some decent sleep last night thanks to the Atavan.

I assumed that he was fine with it. He is gone for a year at a time on deployments and I wait for him. Out of those 7 years he was deployed 3 yrs of it. After reading through this site I can now see we had more than just communication problems.

Right now I am working on exposing his affair to his coworkers. Then when I find out about OW I'm going to expose her too.

I want my husband back. And I'm willing to do whatever it takes.

And Atavan is my friend. Today I feel half way decent. And I have an appt with a counselor for Friday.

I feel for you LASSG.

My STBX is an officer in the Navy reserve, and began an affair with a Chief while deployed last year.

I was what I thought to be a model military wife--stoic, always giving him my support. I never complained when he had to go to drill or training, because it was something he loved and it was an obligation he signed up for. Turns out he interpreted my support as me not caring, because I didn't cry and tell him how much I missed him.

It was never a matter of me not caring--it was that I didn't know. I didn't want him to worry about me, so I was strong.

It was a real punch in the gut to realize that what I thought was the right thing to do to show support was in fact the worst thing.

Here's an article that talks about adultery in the military:
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/justicelawlegislation/a/adultery.htm

If the OW has some connection to the military, you may be able to get some help from them in ending contact.

He says OW is not in the military. That is all he would tell me. He is not returning my calls or messages right now and it is very frustrating.

She wouldn't need to be directly in the military herself.

If she had any connection to the military or the base (a spouse, or contract worker), their relationship could possibly be determined to negatively reflect the military and you might get help.

Today I am going to see a therapist. My first time ever. A friend is going to drive me because I am too shakey to drive.

I have already talked to his 1st sgt & he said they don't get involved in personal relationships like they used to. I'm pretty much on my own.

I'd contact the 1st Sgt again and tell him you are going over his head. Also tell him that you will relay his apathetic attitude regarding adultery to his superior when you do. I'm betting he will get involved when he thinks it could reflect negatively on him.
If you don't see results (and fast) go over his head just like you told him.

I will try. Everybody is off this weekend, because my friend tried to get hold of 2 of his friends and they won't be in until Monday. I am a bit too emotional to be talking to any of them at all. She has been my rock since all of this happened. I am just numb. It took everything I had to take the trash out today. I have a million things going through my head and I can't make sense of any of them.

I did see a therapist today and she just let me talk & cry. And that's about all I can do right now is talk & cry. I've become really good at crying.

My dear friend who is my rock during this trying time is going to call his work and ask for 2 of his friends and then she is going to ask to speak to who ever is above the 1st sgt. I am hoping to find a somewhat sympathetic female somewhere up the chain of command. I am having alot of trouble sleeping, eating or remembering things. If I did't have pets to take care of I'd probably be in the psych ward.

The commander is the one above the 1st Sgt.

Thank you. I will let her know. She is alot stronger than I am right now.

Had another sleepless night of tossing & turning.

LA,

Start a journal, if you are not doing so already. Keep track of the events of each day, who you speak to & the results of any contact and/or conversations.

"OK..now who am I speaking to? And are you saying you are unable to help me in any way?"

They are slightly uncomfortable if they know their name has been noted & connected with being unhelpful.

Any response from H so far?

quite honestly,the military did NOT help me very much. ow was not military.my now ex just got a talking to, was told to either end the marriage with at least a legal sep or to end the affair. big whoop. he brings ow to all of his military functions now. so apparently it was no big deal to them.

mlhb

No. No response from H yet. But I am still doing as the Chaplain suggested which is call at least twice a day where I leave voicemails and I txt msg and I send at least one email each day. All go unanswered.

LAsun,

I really want to respond and help you, but I am still having problems with the idea that you two thought it would be fine to be separated for 7 years.

I don't get what you or he got out of this marriage, if it was to be lived apart. Therefore, I am not sure what you are trying to recapture. It is not closeness, as you and he would have continued to be separated even if no affair occured.

Now that an affair has occured what has really changed in your life? I am serious when asking this. What did your H provide to you physically or emotionally that you are missing right now?

Please understand LAsun, I am not being flippant nor demeaning your grief. It is just hard to know what to tell you and offer in help other than to contact your H. But, if he does not want to be contacted, this will be difficult unless you go to where he is stationed.

I look forward to your response.

God Bless,

JL

It's so hard to explain our relationship. Remember, this is just my side of the story.

When I was unable to find a job back East, I left thinking he was fine with me coming back to AZ to find a good job that would keep us out of BK. He never, ever said not to go. He then was stationed in Korea for 1 year and I stayed in AZ. This is when I began to pursue my dream of acting. Which again, he never voiced his displeasure. He came back to AZ & got stationed here, but I didn't want to move to Tucson because of no job opportunities and we'd be right back in financial difficulties if I didn't work f/t.

He would come & visit me in Phx every time he had time off. We got along great. Every time was like fun dates, day trips, lots of closeness and romance. Never an argument.

When the opportunity arose for me to come to LA to pursue acting full time with a great paying f/t job I discussed it with him and he never said no, don't go. He in fact helped me move. He drove the truck. And when he could get leave, he would come spend 1-2 weeks with me every few months.

As far as I knew this was fine with him. He never told me he was unhappy. Then in August he stopped returning phone calls, emails etc... I knew something was wrong. Then in September, my company went out of business and now I'm jobless, but not penniless, but I know I need to move back to his duty station.

But he said he doesn't want me there and he won't live with me. He is so angry at me that I don't know how I can get through the angry alien back to the husband I love.

I can find an apt there with no problem and friends have offered to help me move, pack etc... I just don't want to get there and have him reject me, refuse to go to counseling or drive him further away & closer to the OW.

I'm just stuck. He has always been my person I could talk to. Yes, we never talked about our deepest feelings because that is not how we were raised, and I see that is one of our major problems. POJA and EN are 2 of our biggest stumbling blocks.

But my lease here in LA is up in December and I'm seriously considering just packing up and going whether he likes it or not. He's going to be redeployed to Kuwait in January and I need to let him know I'm committed to the marriage. And that's my only way to show him.

LASun,

I am presuming that this latest post spans the 7 years you two have been separated.

The reason I am asking is really simple. One of the basic approaches for rebuilding a marriage is to identify your spouse major needs. And then meet them. I cannot for the life of me figure out what needs he was filling of yours and what needs you think you were filling of his.

If you two were meeting one another's needs, what were they and how did you do it?

He leaves for Kuwait in Jan. and if you move back in December, you will have little time to address all of this. Now perhaps in the time he is deployed the OW will lose interest in him, and perhaps not. But, it is clear she has the inside track because if he has needs for conversation, intimacy, companionship, emotional support, she has and is probably meeting them better than you have done for 7 years.

I am not picking on you, I am telling you what I see as big hurdles in possible recovery.

I do find it interesting that he will not talk with you. If he were truly done I would guess he would do you the honor of telling you what he thinks and feels as well as why. It is like he fears that you will burst in, ruin his relationship with OW and then leave him high and dry.

This is all very confusing and that is why I continue to ask questions. I don't have much a feel for your relationship with your H. It is very strange and therefore hard to offer good advice.

But, I will keep asking and see what you are thinking.

Hang in there and be patient.

God Bless,

JL

I don't think either of us were meeting any of our needs. It went both ways. We both withdrew from each other & protected our hearts from any kind of hurt. I was pretty stupid to think that I just had a super cool husband that was letting me pursue my dream. I guess not.

And now he is not wanting to confront me or talk to me because at our one counseling session I just blurted out everything I had been holding in all these years and I don't think he was expecting it.

He actually thought that I was just going to say "Ho hum, no bid deal, bye!" and walk out of the marriage. He had no idea I would react so strongly or passionatley to his betrayal. But I have him thinking.

And he did mention when he did speak, "what if she moves back here and in a year she is bored and wants to move back to LA?" And my reply was, "What if I move back here and he decides he doesn't want me here, puts in for remote orders and I don't see him again for a year?" Which also got his attention.

I know he's trying to put 100% of this on me, but he is partailly responsible because he has a tongue & can speak too.

LASun,

Of course he is responsible for the state of the marriage and 100% for his affair. No doubt about that.

But, his concern about you giving up your career to be with him is valid. You may well resent that sacrifice and then the marriage is in the ditch.

Your fears are also well founded.

So do you have any ideas about how to address these fears on both of your parts?? Have you sought out a counselor there that might help? If not would you consider calling the Harleys' to get their ideas on how to proceed. It might be the best money you ever spent.

God Bless,

JL

I really am not too worried about giving up my career. I can face the evil truth of Hollywood. At 38 I am really, really old. They want you 18 and beautiful. Talent comes 2nd. I am ready to leave that behind with no regrets. I have tried to tell him that over and over again in emails.

At this time he won't respond to any of my phone messages, txt messages or emails. From anger or guilt or a mixture of both I don't know. Probably both.

LA:

I would not give up on contacting his chain of command... if he is enlisted, his 1stSgt might have his back, but that doesn't mean that the Commander will. What do you have to lose?

Unless the affair is ended, you don't have a chance. I am in the military, don't give up.

Scott

My friend is being my advocate. I can barely talk on the phone without crying & I sound horrible. My voice is gone and I am not making too much sense. I never thought I could ever fall apart like this. She wanted to call the Flight Commander, but I will have her call the Wing Commander tomorrow morning. And yes, he is enlisted. He's a Sr. NCO.

Thank you all for your advice and input. It means so much.

Hang in there!

Going through this is the toughest thing I can imagine.

Sad to say, not all in the military care about adulterous affairs. But it is still prohibited by military law, and you just have to find the right person who cares. Trust me, I did, and they took swift action.

Didn't immediately make things better, but ended that contact forever.

Scott

From the way his 1st Sgt spoke it made it sound like they didn't care anymore. But if they do and I can get to the right person maybe they can get this to end & I can get my chance to get into counseling with him. I just don't want him to lose rank or get into big trouble.

LA:

If he is "buds" with the 1stSgt, I would expect him to take that approach. Nevertheless, I am sure that there is someone in the chain that looks down on infidelity and will tell him that she is off limits until he is legally divorced. I have personal experience in this.

Most likely, if he does end contact, won't lose rank. In fact, if he reconciles with you, he may come out looking even better.

Find out all you can about WS's. They live in a fantasy world. Sooner or later the bubble will pop and he will come back to reality. You can help him pop that bubble.

Thank you. I've been up all night. I've just been rehashing every single conversation we've ever had, re-read every single email and I just am numb.

And yes, WS is living in a fantasy world. I think that's why he isn't contacting me or any of his family.

And why is it, that everytime I start talking or writing about this I have an anxiety attack? Shaking, pounding heart, sweating, can't breathe, crying and my stomach does flip-flops? Does it ever go away?

LA:

If you ever make it to real recovery, it may. Be glad you founnd a doctor that listened to you. I went to see a doctor and asked specifically for anti-anxiety, and told him I would not take an SSRI because of the side effects, and he prescribed SSRI anyways. Of which I have not taken one.

Honestly, I wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for my faith. I stopped going to the counselor I was seeing because he repetitively cancelled appt's on me.

All I can do is sympathize,

I have another Dr. appt today. And an appt with my therapist tomorrow. It sounds so cliche. I'm in Hollywood and I have a therapist.

My friend talked to the Chaplain. He said not to call the commander or do anything else to make my husband angry. We just have to see how if he wants to work it out when he comes home from training.

I know how you feel...I would love to expose my husband's affair but everyone at work already knows. Some of them actually enabled him to have the affair. His mother supports him no matter what. The OW works with him, and although he is starting to communicate a bit with me, she is still in the picture. I actually left the house..couldn't bear to be there. You are not alone...

Today is my 2nd appt. with the therapist. I just sit there and cry during our session. And the Chaplain also called me today. I am going to call him back & just let him know I am still alive. Even though I still feel like I've been ran over by a tank. My entire body hurts so much it's like I've been training for a marathon. I don't think there is enough pills in the world to take away this pain.

I slept late this morning. I didn't sleep all night. I then had this horrible dream that the OW was pregnant with my husbands baby. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> I woke up in major panic attack mode. Crying, sweating, shaking and all I could do was get up and pace around the apt.

He called tonight finally. I talked for about 40 min's. He promised to call me again tomorrow night. So we'll see. I told him I wanted to move back & leave LA. I will see him 2nd week of November.

For some reason, I am having a pretty good day today. Good hair too.

I printed out every email that I've been sending him and I packed those up with 2 of Dr. Harley's books, SAA and HNHN and Fedexed them to him in TX. He can read everything and think about it before I see him 2nd week of November. I am also continuing to txt msg and call & lv messages.

We'll see how this goes. I also got an OVERWHELMING urge to call the OW and tell her to stay the heck away from my man. I wanted to go all WWE on her. But I resisted. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Again today I woke up really early & I woke up mad as heck. I just wanted to call WH and just yell at hime. But I didn't. I sent him nice text messages instead.

That to me says it all. I can 100% relate to you in that regard, as my story is the same. My wife didn't tell me anything about any problems. And I was completely oblivious. Had she done so, we would have solved our problems before she cheated on me.

Communication is the key! Tell the world! If a couple can communicate with each other, there would be less divorce.

I wish you well. Good luck to you.

He did text msg me today that he received the package I sent him. All of the emails I printed out and the 2 books I sent. SAA and HNHN. Hopefully *fingers crossed* he will read all of my emails and maybe open those books and read some of the stuff I marked. We'll see....

Is OW married?

BTW, I just exposed the truth to a man my WS was having an EA with yesterday. He was surprised to learn she was still married and living in same house with me. My WS probably figured it out, or soon will, when the contact ceases, but that is chance you have to take. If the affair continues, you have no chance. Better to endure a little anger for the chance of saving marriage. Don't do just whatever a chaplain tells you to do. Make up your own mind. I had one tell me to give up and file. The final decision is yours.

Hang in there,

I know very little about OW. WH would not tell me anything. What I've found out, I've found out on my own.

I want to contact her and tell her to leave my husband alone, but some friends are telling me not to. That she'll just run to WH and tell him and that will push WH further away from me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

He just sent me a txt msg that said he would call me when he had a break. So we'll see what he has to say. I hope it is good news. I really do miss talking to him.

LA:

I just recently contacted an OM and shut it down. My WS would still be seeing the first OM if I had not shut that down. Plan A is the carrot and the stick. The stick is fighting for your marriage, even when you are the only one that seems interested in doing so.

Sometimes they will feel guilty for what they are doing, sometimes they will just get weirded out.

Either way, unless they break contact, your relationship has no chance. A heart cannot be torn in two.

When you do contact her, ask her this, if you and my husband are not willing to respect my marriage vows, what makes you think that you or he will be faithful to each other? Do you really want to be with someone who has proven that he isn't faithful and is capable of lying to a woman that he promised to love forever, through better or worse? Would like to hear the answer to that!

Right now I'm in LA & he's in AZ. He has apt there. He's in TX training. Should I just call up OW and tell her to back off? Should I tell him first that I know who she is? I'm scared. I don't know what to do. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

LA:

Ultimately, the decision is yours. I can tell you that this forum supports exposure, and that I have done this, and it has ended the contact between my spouse and others. It doesn't mean that everything is good, but at least the other person is out of the way.

I did this in a non-threatening manner. I identified myself as the spouse and Christian, and told them that I was fighting for my marriage. I told them that we have a child involved, and what would you do if you were in my shoes. I have done this several times in fact (sad but true). Yes, some were belligerent, and some didn't believe me. In the end, as of now, they are all leaving her alone, which was what I wanted.

I am sure that my WS went through some range of emotions ranging from anger to shame when she found out what I had done, but she can't really fault me for trying everything I can do to save the marriage. It is what I signed up for when I married her.

I would call his parents and tell him the same thing, along with his siblings, if he has any.

If you do this in a calm and persistent but firm manner, I don't see how anyone can fault you, though of course there may be some initial anger.

The decision is yours, but yes, I recommend it. Recommend you do it today.

His mom, brother & all 3 sisters know about his affair. But they are siding with him. And don't want to get involved.

But I am going to find out more info about this girl and I will confront her when I go to AZ here in a week. I just want to have my plan down & ducks in a row.

Ok, well, find out all you can about her. You can find a lot through the internet. Hopefully you have some good leads.

Well, I've decided to pack up & move back to AZ. I have called and txt msg'd WH and have received no response from him. I told him to expect me by 11/15 or maybe sooner. But I am coming back & I told him there isn't room in our relationship for 3. I said I will need some room in the closet and my bed is replacing his.

Don't just expose to OW. Expose to those in your's and his life that can make a difference. Family, friends, jobs, etc. You should do it all at once.

You should probably move your thread over to Gen Questions II where there's a lot more traffic and a lot of the veteran's hang out. They can help you a lot on what to do.

Some of his coworkers know. But I am waiting for additional information and to be there in person before I expose. I'm gonna be moved back in & be ready with a MC appointment. My contacts are supposed to get back to me with additional information. I want to have it all before I confront OW. I also told a very dear friend about this all tonight on the phone. She was so shocked. She said if I needed to have her call WH and tell him he was a dumbdonkeybutt she would. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

At times like this, you really learn who your friends are. And I am so fortunate to have some of the best people in the world as friends.

I just got home from the hospital. Spent 3 days there for depression and exhaustion.

He says he is happy and has wanted a D for a very long time. I do not know what else to do.

He doesn't want me to move to Tucson. His family absolutley hates me. And I have decided to move back to Phoenix.

I really don't know what else to do.

Today was not a good day. I called his boss. Which was a Capt. And WH txt msg'd me that he hoped I was happy that he got into trouble. But I talked to the Capt and the Capt said he wasn't in trouble and that he would talk to him. I just told the Capt that I didn't want him in trouble that I wanted the affair to stop & I wanted my husband back. That I loved him so much & that I wanted my husband back & I wanted to move back to his base duty station town.

I am so heartbroken and sad, numb, hurt and it feels like there is a huge hole in my chest.

WH last txt msg to me was "We are done! And I will never forgive you for what you have done to me."

Which I think is because I called his Capt.

Advice would be helpful.

I also called the OW and left her a voicemail message and told her I loved my husband & I don't know what he had told her, but I truley loved my husband and he means the world to me.

Don't panic. IMO you hit a home run. Well done.

The angrier he is the better you hit the target. He will get over it.

A friend of mine talked to him and he said that the D paperwork was already in progress. And I'm scared. Because I don't want a D. I love him. Some of my friends are telling me to dump him & move on, but seriously, I have never pictured myself with any other man but him. The whole "til death do you part" I took seriously. I took all the vows seriously and I've never broken them.

My biggest error was not to communicate enough and take care of his emotional needs.

Hey LA,

Yep, his little fantasy world has ended! This is a good thing.

You could have taken your H's Txt message right from the WS handbook...

When you exposed the A, you "took away" his OW and the fantasy life that goes with it... He will be angry, he will say that it's 'over'...

Now, the most important thing for you to do right now is read up on Plan-A and learn how to meet his ENs.

You are at a disadvantage in that you guys haven't been living together for the past 7 years... JL has been discussing this with you and I agree that you have a hard road ahead of you because of this...

I would also ask the Chaplian to help you with MC... you guys need to start connecting and start MC as soon as possible.

Semper Fi,

RIF

Hey LA,

Maybe, maybe not... right now, you can't control this, so try not to worry about it.

Focus on the things that you CAN control.

* Read up on Plan-A
* Work on making yourself a more attractive (as in meeting his EN) W
* Enlist the help of the Chaplian

Your H is following the WS script to the letter... what you fail to realize is that YOU have a lot of knowledge and power as well... you just have to be willing to follow through with a plan.

I know this is hurts, but you've GOT to get control of your emotions and start working here... You can do this... Read up on Plan-A and HNHN and come up with a plan to win your H back.

Semper Fi,

RIF

You did the right thing. Expose the A to anyone and everyone that will listen. Find out as much about OW as you can. Expose Expose Expose I was "scared" too, but was mad enough that I did it. Called OWH (married 29 years) and he was shocked. She is teacher - called school board, sent emails to her kids (found their addresses, etc.). Told whole family. He was furious.

But 15 weeks later, we are finally working on our marriage. I wish you luck. It is still a long, long road for me but I would not go back and do anything differently regarding being a super sleuth, spending days, weeks searching, reviewing emails, analyzing phone bills, building graphs of gas purchases, etc. YOU are your own best PI, so dig it all up. Only then when everything is uncovered (because they will LIE) will you begin to heal. Good luck.

It's made me feel a little better to get up this morning & read these posts. I thought I'd really screwed up yesterday. I hope that the Capt. calls me back today as he said he would. If I don't hear anything by 11 a.m., I'm gonna call him. Plus I'm going to continue my positive phone messages and txt msgs to my husband.

Thank you all for your input.

Hi LA,

I hope you got some rest last night...

You're doing great! Relax and focus on the things that you CAN control...

Semper Fi,

RIF

Yes, I am still emailing him everyday and sending a txt msg. I hope to go to Tucson soon to see him. We need some serious face to face time. And I am going to call his Capt today, right now, to make sure he didn't get into trouble.

I also sent an email to SIL asking her and family to please respect my attempts to save my marriage because I love my husband and can't imagine being with anybody else.

OH Gawd!!! His Capt. just called! He tells his Capt more about his feelings than he does me! He says that he feels his marriage was over in 1999. I'm like what?! I just want to curl into a ball and cry.

Somebody tell me what to do!!!!!!!

LA, calm down. This is another thing that WS do. They "rewrite" their marital history in order to justify what they're doing. What else did his captain say?

Who else have you exposed to?

You'll be okay. Your WH is no different from the many that we've seen here on MB. They all pretty much say the same things.

LA:

You are doing the right things, even though you may feel very worried about your actions! BK was right, you hit a homerun. It is never a mistake to fight for your marriage. We would have less divorce if everyone had this attitude!

At this time, you cannot worry about the things your husband says. He is in a fog and when you popped the bubble of the fantasy he is living in, it made him angry. Be prepared for further hurtful statements, but don't worry about them too much. When he comes to his senses, he will respect you for what you did, regardless of the outcome.

I like the approach you took with the Captain, saying you just wanted it to end and not get your S in trouble. I am in the military as well, and believe it or not, that is what military leaders want as well.

You did the right thing by expressing your commitment to your spouse, his family, his work, and his OP.

Hang in there,

Thank you for all of your input. It makes me feel a bit better. But I am kinda having a panic attack now & I took an Ambien CR and I'm gonna take a nap.

I did call WS & just tell him that I still love him. That I love him so much. Why didn't he tell me this himself? I am so hurt. I hurt so much. My whole body hurts.

Again I can't stop crying. I don't want to divorce him. I don't want him to divorce me.

How many tears do you cry before you stop hurting?

Good for you. You are at a HIGH place of self realization 55% of the married population refuses to climb to. AWESOME.

Turn all of this over to God. Dr Harley's books are great, but have you cracked THE book yet? See a pastor or Christian counselor for scripture guidance, or go to Borders and get a devotional book. Within DAYS everything will begin crystallizing.

Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the life"

Yes, I have been reading my Bible. It's a student bible so it tells me where to find things. I've been reading all the passages on forgiveness and trust. And it seems like every two minutes i'm offering a prayer to God to bring my husband back to me. I've never prayed for myself before. Always for friends or family and even prayer for my pets, but never for myself. I have felt somewhat selfish to pray for myself. But I've been doing it multiple times each day. I'm not one for organized religion either even though I am a spiritual person and I've been going back to a small Catholic church here in the valley. It is peaceful there.

But one thing has really hurt me. I have lost my singing voice. I am a classically trained singer and I've lost my voice and my will to sing. I used to sing every single day & now I can't even sing a single note. It's as if my husband has not only broken my heart he has broken my voice too. I have been unable to sing the hymns at church. I open my mouth and nothing comes out.

I have vowed that I am not going to speak to my husband until I get to Tucson on the 19th. I need to regroup and all of the advice you guys/gals can give me would be greatly appreciated.

I've been writing in a notebook all of the things I want to say to him and then I'm going to type it so I can read it to him. My head is so jumbled.

Thank you all for your help. It is so much appreciated.

If he files for divorce is there a way I can stop it?

LA:

I did not realize that you were Catholic. Something that has helped me a lot is to look at the Sunday readings throughout the week and focus on it. Sometimes it is something in the Gospel, sometimes the Psalms, and sometimes one of the readings.

http://www.usccb.org/nab/

I know it sounds simple but it has really helped me. And when Sunday comes around I know what the Gospel is even if a baby starts to cry!

Continue hanging in there, you are doing great!

LA:

You can always go in front of the judge and explain that you need time and counseling to try to save the marriage.

However, the bottom line, in this country anyways, is that if one person wants a divorce, it will eventually be granted.

Don't give up hope, but at the same time, realize that God has a plan for all of us, even if the plan isn't the one we wanted (or even are worthy of)!

Thank you very much. I will look up that website. I am just about ready to leave to go see my therapist. I have so much to tell her.

My trip to the therapist was good. I had a good cry. 22 kleenex. I told her about the 2 page letter/speech I had written to my husband to tell him when I see him and she said that was good to have all my thoughts on paper.

I am going to Tucson to see him face to face. I deserve that. I deserve a chance to save our marriage. He needs to know that.

Last night was horrible. I thought I would be able to sleep! But no sleep. For my safety and to protect myself I have an appt with the legal office at the local AFB. Which means a long drive for me. I really hope I don't need their advice. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I'm sorry you didn't get any sleep. I remember those sleepless nights too. I had to mix alcohol and ativan to knock myself out (I know, not good... but I had to sleep if I wanted to function at work).

I think getting legal advice is good... it will help you feel more secure about your finances. I know when I did, it gave me some empowerment. It didn't change the fact that I wanted to save my relationship, but it helped me feel more confident. That confidence helped me eliminate the love busters and angry outburts.

I ran out of Ativan. I'm just taking the Ambien & Effexor. Today I am going to call WS and let him know that I will be in town on 19, 20 & 21 and I need him to be there.

LA,

So sorry to see you here, but welcome. You may think this is unique, but unfortunately it isn't. I wondered if you went to see your husband at all on a regular basis through the seven years? I only see you mention him coming to where you were. Don't beg and plead if you can help it, the WS's don't respect the BS and it doesn't help.

Many of us BS's here realize, when our world falls apart, how much our spouse means to us. It is a shame it took the A to do so, but be glad that you do value him and know it now.

My world came apart much like yours, went from a size 8 to a size 2 on the infedelity diet, not an attractive look let me tell you, lost hair, lost ability to focus on anything else, inc. my sons, wasn't performing well at work, a complete mess really for a long time. My FWH said the same things, I was to blame for everything, he didn't love me for years, if ever, our M was a mistake. Ouch, hard to hear when you have 3 great sons.

I owned my half before d-day one, he wouldn't acknowledge the changes, said I was just doing it bc of the A and I wouldn't sustain it. Was angry that it took the A for me to make positive changes. Meanwhile, he didn't change in a positive way, he got worse. I am telling you this so that you can be aware unless the A ends, it will get worse for you and you need to be strong to go through it.

I realized about a year or so ago that what I experienced/was experiencing was PTSD. In most cases, A's are devastating to the BS's ego and psche. But in some cases, it is emotionally worse. In my case I believe in part that I contributed to the A, I had a lot of guilt, some deserved and some my FWH pounded into me. My self worth before d-day 1 was in the toilet, A's with their lies, are a form of emotional abuse. In my sitch, I didn't find MB until 4 months after d-day 2, although I was in therapy.

I hope for you to use MB to first, recover yourself and second your marriage. You truly need to calm down, find that inner strength and if you believe in God, call on him to help you, he will if you allow it.

There are many kind and knowledgable people here to help and support you. You will come out the other side and I hope stronger and have the tools for a good relationship.

Remember, you can only control your half. Try to be someone your WH wants to be around, upbeat and positive. Yes, it may be an act, but the more you do it, the more it will become part of you.

Please keep posting, try to eat and try to perhaps meditate to calm your mind.

Peace,

nab

tried to make it to that legal office. Couldn't make it. Threw up on myself while on the fwy. Had to turn around & come home. Laying in bed now. OMG...I hurt so bad.

This is the first time I have every posted, but I come here just about everyday looking for updates to your story. I just wanted to let you know that I am thinking about you.




I agree so much with this statement.

Yes totally agree with this. Once you start in this frame of mind, you see the immediate effect it has on others surrounding you, namely your H. It will also help keep your general outlook positive, which will help YOU get through this and improve as a person.

Since I found out and the initial melt-down, I have never raised my voice, swore, called him a bad name etc... And I didn't even do any of that during the initial melt-down.

Every phonecall, txt msg, email I have remained upbeat, positive and always told him how much I loved him and admired him. I know after reading Dr. Harley's basic concepts that I didn't meet his EN's and he didn't meet mine either, but that's another story.

So I know that I have to move there. After talking to legal advice, if something goes wrong (D) or doesn't work out, he will probably take a spanking in the wallet and I'll leave. Which is not something I want. I love him so much. I have already forgiven him and the A hasn't even ended yet. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

LA:

Why the long drive? Don't know exactly where you are, but you can go to Miramar. Hope you weren't trying to reach the base by Solvang!

how are you doing?

I live in LA in the Valley. So I was trying to drive to that little LA AFB down by LAX. I was on the 405 at 8:00 a.m. and just sick, weak and dehydrated. I got myself carsick & threw up on myself. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> It was bad. Reminded me of when I was a little kid.

So I came home, layed down and sipped on some water & ate some crackers.

Then I got up at 10:15 and drove to the dentist & had the 2 crowns replaced that I broke on Halloween on a wicked mean Apple Jolly Rancher candy.

I came home, downed 2 Ambien and slept for 3 hrs. I woke up & right now I feel pretty good. I'm still drinking water & eating crackers. My stomach hurts so bad from throwing up so much that I think it's just not used to have food in it.

I wish I could hand pick my MB Posse and have them ride with me to Tucson. That would be cool. Moral support every step of the way. Every time he threw out some sort of WS babble, somebody would be able to shoot it down.

MB needs a mobile response team! Like the A-Team but with a cooler van and less jewelry. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I have a van, and it is very cool, but only because the heater doesn't work!

Try to stay calm. Keep Emitrol, not sure if it is spelled right, with you.

If you have a rosary, and you get so stressed out that you can't pray, sometimes it helps just to hold it and ask for help. That is a prayer in my book.

Remember, God will answer your prayers, but not always in the way that we want or expect.

Hang in there,

Hey I would go with you if I was closer...I lived in Tucson for over a year and know it pretty well...especially the mall....and the night spots....make sure you eat some eegee's ranch fries for me. I miss those alot.

I just had a horrible day. I only sent him 1 txt msg. Friends here in LA are saying that it's over & I need to realize that & friends in Phoenix are saying that I gotta keep trying and I'm just so confused.

I just want to pack the uhaul & just show up on his door step. I just think we should have another chance.

I still hurt so bad today. I don't think the pain will ever stop.

What if I just put everything in storage here in LA & just pack the cats, my computer & my clothes & just go to Tucson? I can come back & get my stuff later...

Does that show my committment or does it show that I still have a way out?

Aaarrrrgggghhhhh!!!!...

Hi LA,

I hope that you're getting some rest...

I think that it is key that you move back home and be with your H... I don't know how things will turn out, but as long as you guys are apart, it's going to be very hard for you to do a good Plan-A.

If it takes packing up your stuff in a U-Haul, then I'd get started as soon as possible...

Semper Fi,

RIF

I did get some rest last night. Today I am getting ready to make my trip to Arizona tomorrow. I am just rereading the basic principles and trying to stay positive. Saying a few prayers for myself and my husband & stuff like that. And I'm going to check out rental rates for storage places.

I think I just have to show up on his doorstep and say "Here I am!" I'm not gonna give up. And I've added 3 paragraphs onto the things I want to say to him.

And I've found out I can eat rice a roni & not get sick. So I had that for dinner last night. I am trying to be strong and not panic or get upset and start the hysterical crying, but it's there, right under the surface. Just waiting...

I have made my hotel reservation for Tucson. I am praying that everything goes well.

I just keep re-reading his text message that says "It's over & I'll never forgive you for what you've done" over & over and I'm just panicking. I know everybody said that it's just classic WS behavior but for me it's the worst thing to see.

LA:

Don't worry about what he says now, but focus on taking positive steps. He may say a lot worse.

Nevertheless, you stand a good chance of breaking his PA if you can burst the bubble. A real live in the flesh human being can do that. Don't be afraid, but confident. We are all with you.

I saw him with the MC today. It was a complete disaster. He just sat there & said it was over & I needed to move on with my life. He said there was no chance & he had already started divorce papers.

I completley freaked & lost it & just cried & rocked back & forth on the couch & begged for a 2nd chance. The MC had WS leave the room & sat & talked with me. She didn't want me to leave. She wanted to put me in the hospital again & I told her I wouldn't go back to a hospital. I've lost 40lbs & can't keep anything down. I can't eat or drink. I just cry. And she said that she feared for my safety. I told her I wasnt going to hurt myself, but I just wanted to lay down, go to sleep and wake up in a different time & place.

My face is numb, I ache & feel helpless & hopeless. She asked me to promise not to leave Tucson, but I couldn't stay. I left my hotel room & came back to my friends house here in Phoenix. I drive back to LA in the morning. I just want to crawl in my own bed with my cats & cry myself 2 sleep.

I'm pretty sure its over. And I feel horrendous.

LA: Please try and get under control emotionally. Don't worry when he spews this fog. WS's do that. What he says and what actually happens are often quite different.

(((((LA)))))

LA - Please get some help... there's nothing wrong with going to the hospital if you are having a hard time...

We're here for you, so please drop us a line when you get back, OK?

Semper Fi,

RIF

I am home in LA now. I called my therapist & asked her to call me. I can't go back to the hospital.

I'm pretty sure it's over. Even the MC said that you can't save a marriage with 1 person.

He said it's been over for years and he just wishes I'd move on with my life. He doesn't understand why I'm freaking out so bad. I've never been alone. I've always been with him, since I was 21. I'm shaking so bad.

I called a friend and she is coming over. I can't eat or drink and I don't wanna go back to the hospital. It was cold and scary & lonely. This apt is so lonely now that I know I can't just call him.

And I got home & there were emails that he changed his address on some of our credit cards to his in Tucson.

How am I supposed to pay the bills if I don't know how much? The AF said he couldn't cut me off financially, but now I'm scared.

I just hurt so bad. I want the pain to go away.

LA:

Sorry things went so bad, but you showed great courage and determination!

In regard to the bills, is there a mutual friend you could use to talk to him about this?

Hang in there!

I don't know what to do. There is no one. I have a friend coming over to sit with me.

Then for the time being I recommend you use his chain of command. Let them know that you have bills and you know that they need to be paid and wonder what is going on.

Let them know that you are entitled to support, and whether or not he is paying that.

This isn't out of vengeance. Right now he is in a fantasy world. Sometimes the a strike to the pocket book will wake a person up.

Regardless, the military has standards that they expect their members to live up to in regard to bills and support to their family members. Don't let him have a pass on this.

Hang in there!!!

He called me & said tht he just changed the paper billing addresses & that the p/w's and signon's were still the same. I still had access. But I told him that he did this & didn't tell me and when I got home I freaked out when I read my emails. That then I got a phonecall from Visa fraud alert and found out he'd changed our joint checking acct billing address & freaked out further. But he told me that he wouldn't cut me off & I should know that he wouldn't do that to me. But I told him since I saw him yesterday that he didn't seem like the same person to me. So I didn't know what he'd do.

But my friend came over & was here for a few hours, I cried, sobbed & had my freak out & then I took an Effexor and I'm calmer. I also ate a bit of dinner. She made sure I ate.

He gets deployed in Jan/Feb 2008. I told him that no matter what happened, I would always worry about him.

Gonna go to bed & try to relax.

How are you doing??? I'm worried about you and have been thinking about you.

I had a freak out last night. My friend came over. I curled into a ball & cried for 2 hrs.

Today I was ok until around 2 p.m. when I called a few D lawyers. I did not know lawyers were so $$$. But I may have found 1. I don't want to sound like I have given up, but I need to protect myself. But I know he may be the one for me. He seemed to understand & kept me from having my daily freak out.

Today I also went to see my therapist & told her I was not going to take the meds anymore. It made me feel worse than if I wasn't taking them. I read the side effects & I had 8 out of 10 of them. So I didn't take any today & it took me til noon to "sober" up. I felt drunk. This evening I am clearer headed & tomorrow I am going to a friends house for the day/evening for dinner & movies. And I love her and her kids. So it should be a good day.

And WS called me back today & I made up stupid questions to ask him just so I could hear his voice.

I hope that his deployment and being gone for 6 mos may change his mind or change his opinion of me. I just try not to give up.

But today was better than yesterday.

Hey LA! Happy Thanksgiving! I'm glad that you have a friend to spend Thanksgiving with...

Thanks for the update too... you WILL get through this.

Semper Fi,

RIF

I am going to a friends house today.

I had a really bad dream about him this morning that he was flaunting the OW in my face & I was going through his wallet and his cellphone and trying to find out info.

I woke up in a panic attack & was shaking uncontrollably and I got my phone & called my mom & talked to her for over an hour. My hands finally stopped shaking. Now I just feel like my neck won't hold my head up. Weird...I know.

I am going to take a warm shower & get ready to drive to my friends house. The therapist said last night that I shouldn't be by myself & I should go places. So I am going to try to go to the movies tomorrow. I feel so stupid & weak. I just want to know when the pain will go away. It doesn't.

Hey LA,

You're not "stupid & weak"... this is very traumatizing.

You take care of yourself and have a great time with your friends! ...and I hope you have a great Thanksgiving!

Semper Fi,

RIF

I had a really fun time at my friends house. I ate dinner & it was the most I had eaten in nearly 2 mos. I had ham & turkey slice + stuffing & a scoop of potatos. She couldn't believe I ate so much. I also drank 4 glasses of water. Her little boy was alot of fun & we raced around the backyard with the puppy. Then we watched tv & just hung out.

Her daughter may come stay a week with me in December. I love her daughter. She's 15 & so much fun. She makes me feel young. I look forward to her stay.

Only sent txt msg to WS wishing him a good day.

So glad you had a good day yesterday. I'm sure you,ll feel a little better after eating.

I know how hard it is right now... but you will get through this. There will be good days, there will be bad days, but eventually the good days will outnumber the bad days.

Today I ordered regular phone service to my house. I normally just used my cellphone. But even 1000 min's right now isn't enough. So now I'm getting digital phone with unlimited calling. That will help. I can stay on the phone with friends during my meltdowns.

Today I'm going out. Gonna go to the movies, mani/pedi and look for some smaller jeans.

Smaller jeans = <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I know it's not the best way to lose weight, but you have to try and look at the positive side of things.

Have a great day, and good for you for getting some pampering, you DESERVE it!

Saw a movie today. Bought a book that the therapist recommended. "How to Survive the Loss of a Love" and I was reading it & just started to shake. I had to go in & get my eyebrows done & my facial lady was so good. She took me into a massage room & I cried and shook & told her what happened & she did my eyebrows & just listened. I love her. She was so good to me. She hugged me.

The book has some good advice, but everything is so raw that I don't think I can finish reading the book yet.

I realized today that my wedding anniversary is February 14th. Valentines Day. Every Valentines Day for the rest of my life will be my wedding anniversary.

It has to be on someday! And as far as you knew at the time, that was a good choice.

Don't look at it as a reminder of what went wrong, but what you did that was good, and build on that.

how was the movie?

I went & saw Hitman. I figured an action movie was better than a sad, chick flick.

It was ok. It kept my mind off of things for awhile.

Well, movies are great for that!

I was supposed to go see the Mist later with a friend. I'll post my review!

Hang in there,

Today was ok. I was really surprised when my therapist called me at home to check on me. I love her. She called on a holiday weekend. I was shocked.

I need to get my military ID card renewed & my husband is supposed to help me get a new one. But I don't know if he will.

I am also going to start looking for a commercial agent. I still want to keep pursuing acting. I love it so much. I watch movies/tv and I see characters that I could've been cast as.

My friend Ann called tonight. She is a swimsuit model & probably one of the most beautiful girls I've ever seen. She's also sweet as sugar. She's said WS was an idiot and he was blind if he didn't see what he had. Then she told me to stop defending him! He's a cheater she said. Told me I needed to be strong. We needed to go shopping! So tomorrow we go to Beverly Center and The Grove. Yes!!!

I slept pretty good last night. I feel OK this morning.

I think I will go and get my Jeep washed and gassed up for my shopping trip. I think I want to work this anger thing for awhile.

Morning LA!

Glad you got some rest last night... and I'm glad that you have a good friend to talk with.

Semper Fi,

RIF

Today was a pretty good day. I feel better. I had a good lunch and fun with my friend.

[color:"red"] [/color] [color:"blue"] [/color]

I checked out one online school for paralegal course & one regular school for a paralegal course. Nine months to become a legal assistant & 9 more months to become a paralegal. Don't know the cost yet. But seriously thinking of night school. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Also, left messages with 2 of the BEST headshot photographers in LA to see if they had openings at the end of December for new headshots. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Worked out with trainer this morning for 1/2 hr. Then 1/2 hr on the treadmill. Going back tomorrow too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Now I'm going to Target and maybe a movie. Therapist tonight at 5:45. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I feel like I have some control these past 2 days. Control over my moods & how I feel etc... I know you all know what I mean. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

You've been being very strong lately, that's great and I'm proud of you. Hang in there! You're doing the right thing right now by focusing on you, the happier you become with yourself, the better you'll look to WH (and everyone else, too).
All my best,
~Mark

I made my new headshot appt for December 12th. The photog is so busy that it was then or middle of January. So I'm going with 12/12 & then I have time to get them made up etc...

We'll see how I feel after I get home from therapist appt.

Therapist appt went well. She agree's with me that it's not right that he has not answered any of the ?'s about why he started the A and why he just says that our marriage is over etc... And she says I deserve answers to my questions. I think that he doesn't even know the answers himself. I explained about "the fog" and she agree's with that.

I wonder if I should stop contacting him daily or if I should continue to call, email & txt msg him? I'm torn about what I should do. He gets deployed sometime in Jan or Feb. I'm holding out a small bit of hope that once he gets over there and away from OW and his happy little bubble that maybe I can meet more of his EN's and work a better Plan A on him. I dunno though.

He's not acting like the man I married. When he says that he feels like our marriage was over in 1999 I feel that since he won't answer my ?'s he is just using this as an excuse to justify his behavior. Because he won't look at me. He won't look me in the eye. He feel's guilty. Ashamed.

And I know his family is just sitting there in the Midwest telling him horrible things about me, spreading lies, rumors and he may be vulnerable enough to actually believe it.

I finally feel that this isn't my fault. Since 10/3 I've been really blaming myself for all of this. Not now.

I haven't cried in 3 days. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA:

Sounds like you are doing much better. Why don't you just contact him when you feel the need to? If miss a day or two, perhaps it will let him know that you have other things in your life besides hanging on to him, and maybe a little detachment may make him wistful for what the two of you had.

And I think you are right about the deployment. It may be the thing that causes him to wake up and see what he is doing. I am sure that we he compares how often you contact him with words of love with OM, he will see what he is missing out on.

Great time of year to watch movies! Some of my all-time favorites are holiday movies. Just the other day some saw some of Christmas Vacation, and that always gives me a laugh!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

There's the problem though. We never used to talk everyday. 3 or 4 days could go by & I'd be busy & he'd be busy & we wouldn't talk or connect. So I don't know if not contacting him everyday is a good or bad thing.

Today I am going to have lunch with friends and check out a college for paralegal courses. I'm trying to stay busy. There is a lump in my throat all the time & there are moments where I want to just crumble & start crying.

LA,

I have been following your posts, but not posted since you first came here. I am still wondering about the questions you never answered. I recall asking you how you could be separated for (was it 7 years) while you pursued your career and he his, and think the marriage would stay together. I never got an answer for that.

I am also puzzled as to why you NOW would go to be with him, if you would not have before. I know, one answer is that you are losing him now, and you weren't before.

I haven't offered you much in the way of advice because frankly I don't understand YOUR thought processes. His...I understand. Yours I don't.

You seem like a nice lady. You seem very focused on your career. You seem to enjoy your career. You also seem to not NEED much if anything from your H. Most of us guys NEED to be needed, and frankly you don't need him for a thing as near as I can tell.

What is it you need from your H if you only talked maybe every 3-4 days, and otherwise you two were too busy to talk??? What do you expect your H to provide you? How will your life be different if he is not in it?

Do you see what I am driving at??? He is in the middle of an affair right now and thus HE is not thinking about recovery. You on the other hand need to prepare for recovery if in fact your speculation that his deployment will end the affair.

Part of that preparation is you deciding what you really want and need from a marriage, and a husband. You also have to decide what it is you are willing to contribute to the marriage. I know you have discussed moving back to be with him, but that won't be for at least a year as he will be deployed. So the idea now is to understand how to construct a plan for recoverying this marriage. That plan MUST start with what you want out of the marriage and a husband, and then include what you feel your H would want out of the marriage.

Obviously the OW is meeting his need for someone to be with and talk to. I would guess she is meeting his SF needs as well. Perhaps she is meeting his need for admiration. I don't know. But you need to figure out what his needs might be and how you might meet them.

I know shopping will help your feelings of being down, but it won't create a plan for you,nor will it address what your H is searching for.

Please think about these things. There are tools here to help you rebuild your marriage and to help you end this affair. I don't recall hearing that you have exposed to family and to his commander although I know it was discussed, and you discussed it with someone near you.

LAsun, please consider the topics I have mentioned. Your marriage is not over, but it will not recover unless you have a plan for it and that plan needs to address the WHY's of the marrige before the affair.

God Bless,

JL

JL,

I don't know. I really don't. I didn't know I was messing up so bad. I thought that by having a career & being able to contribute was a good thing. I htought that when I left Georgia in 1999 that going back to Phoenix was a good thing because I could then get a better job. If I had known that he resented it I would've stayed and gone bankrupt and been penniless if that's what he wanted. He never said encouraging things to me so I didn't stroke his ego in return. He never talked and said anything and I eventually stopped talking and expressing my emotions to him because I just felt it wouldn't do any good. I felt like he didn't need me. So I put my energy into having a good job and pursuing my dream.

His family knows about the affair and they think I'm the most horrible thing ever. They have spread so many lies and rumors about me throughout the family that I don't know if he is listening to them or debunking them or what. And yes, I told his 1st Sgt & his Capt and they both just told him that he needs to communicate with his wife. They are cops and will cover for each other. None of them are any help.

And I do need things from my H. I always felt that if I worked harder, earned more, got promoted eventually he would say "good job" or say that he admired me etc... Which has never happened. He's never given me alot of encouragement. He's so quiet. He holds everything inside. But I still love him.

I don't know what he wants from a wife. Again, he doesn't really talk alot. And I've tried to get him to talk. Tried so hard. I've always asked his opinion on everything. And usually I get silence. So what am I supposed to do? Just not do it? I don't know.

I just wish he had said that he needed me, wanted me to stay or something like that.

I don't know if it's a sexual affair or just an emotional affair. Because he had been having problems these last 4 years with ed and I had tried to be supportive and just told him that it wasn't the most important thing. Just being with him was. But I still missed making love to him.

I know I've messed. I know that. I'd never read any books about marriage and what I was supposed to do or that there was a certain way to act. Yes, I've been selfish in my needs and wants. But so has he. His job always came first. I was always second. During out marriage he has been deployed, TDY or remote for a total of 5 1/2 yrs. 2 years out of the last 7 were deployed. I've never cheated, thought about it or even considered it. Always faithful to him.

Was I meeting his EN's? No. But neither was he. But I still love him. I have this feeling of comfort and safety when we are together.

I don't know what else to say. I know I've messed up and probably am responsible for driving him into this affair, but I'd like to try to fix these problems. I'm willing to give up everything for him. I feel so lost without him. Even if we didn't talk everyday, I still think about him every 2 minutes. Even just sitting next to him warmed my heart. I told him numerous times how much I loved and admired him. Even though I knew I was never going to get the same words from him. Always told him I loved him. Maybe I didn't say it enough. Maybe I didn't show it enough. I look back now & wonder if he didn't want the Suzy Homemaker wife that cooked dinner everynight and brought him a beer.

But I am lost without him and love him dearly. There is a hole in my heart and my soul right now that is nearly killing me.

I am unemployed right now & all I have is time to sit here all day long and reflect on how bad I've messed up. I know I'm not entirely responsible for this, but I wish he'd talk to me. He's thrown just as many LB's out there as I have. And I know I've been the one to get mad & snap at him and he just doesn't talk. I could beg & plead for him to tell me what he is thinking and feeling & I'd get silence.

So right now, I'm treading water & looking around for a liferaft and a way to save my drowning marriage.

Would I survive without him? Yes, I would, but I don't want to. When I got put in the hospital the last time, what got me put there was my comment that, "All I want to do is lay down, go to sleep and wake up in another time and place where the pain is gone." And boom, there I was in the mental ward.

The MC said he has detached himself from the situation because I have shocked him with my reaction. That my rapid weightloss, panic/anxiety attacks, shaking and weakened state are hard for him to comprehend and he's just shutting down.

I don't know what else to say. I know I'm rambling, but today was not so great. All my friends could ask about was this situation and it took a toll on me today. I thought I was so tough because I hadn't cried in 3 days. Well I fell off the wagon on the way home today.

LAsun,

Please reread my last post to you and then read your response to me. If you reread my post, you will notice I did not say you "messed up". You will also noticed that I didn't say a single thing bad about you.

You will also notice that I asked about YOU, and what YOU could do, and what YOU got out of the marriage. What I got back was defense and the "yes BUT he did it too."

You will NOT recover your marriage wallowing in self-pity or blame shifting. You will NOT recover your marriage if you think recovery is about blame. Recovery is about goals, it is about plans, it is about actions. You will not recover if you don't take good care of your health, sounds simple and obvious but it is often forgotten.

You will not recover by accident. You will only recover when you have a goal and one of those goals is to do things differently, more effectively, and powerfully.

One of Dr. Harley's major insights was that often well meaning and loving people fail to meet their spouses needs because a) they don't know what they are and b) they don't know how to meet them. Good marriages go bad this way.

Your marriage has been encumbered with almost 5 years or is it 7 years of separation. There is little chance you two even know one another anymore. So I am asking the beginning questions:

1. Do you know yourself?
2. Do you know your goals?
3. Do you know what you want in a husband?
4. Do you know why (in detail) you love your H?
5. Where do you think you could have done better in this marriage and what are your plans for the future?

In a nutshell that was what I was asking you before. I was trying to phrase it generally so that I might allow you to reflect on things in your own way, rather than pin you down with questions.

Feelings are great things, BUT they change, and they do not take the place of actions.

The other thing I thought I would offer you is to suggest that you read about love busters, the most deadly of all is the disrespectful judgement, DJ for short. DJ's are deadly because they are assumptions based on little or no data, thus when one acts on a DJ or evaluates using a DJ, the action and the evaluation is almost always flawed.

You said your H works hard and long hours and that is his focus. Then you also mentioned that you did not want to be bankrupt, perhaps he doesn't either, so he chose to work hard figuring it would meet your need for finacial support. Perhaps he was wrong and used a DJ himself.

I don't know.

But LAsun, this thread is about YOU, your thinking, your goals, and your plans. Your H is not here, so it is you the people here are trying to help.

Please reread those posts and let me know what you think.

God Bless,

JL

1. Do you know yourself? Yes, I do. I know that I am hard on myself & hard on other people. I expect perfection and doing everything right the first time. I have never, ever failed at anything I have ever set out to do. My husband is the exact same way. Probably more so than me.

2. Do you know your goals? My goal was to have an Oscar & a Tony award by the time I was 40. I wanted my husband to be proud of me & my achievements. I wanted him to be as proud of me as I was of him. I told him how proud I was & how much I admired him. From him, I got silence. Lots & lots of silence.

3. Do you know what you want in a husband? I want to keep the one I have. I feel a level of comfort with him that I have never felt with any other person in my life. My immediate family included. Even if we weren't together in the same house/apt or were continents apart, he was my comfort. And when I was with him, to just sit next to him brought me a sense of peace and well being.

4. Do you know why (in detail) you love your H? see above. I knew by the 2nd date that I would marry him. He accepted me as I was and never asked me to change myself. His acceptance meant so much.


5. Where do you think you could have done better in this marriage and what are your plans for the future? Done better? I could've done lots better. I could've questioned him more about what he wanted & expected of me. I thought by not being the jealous, clingy, stereotypical Air Force wife that stayed home all day & had one kid after another he wouldn't feel like other husbands and want to leave & get away. Didn't have kids because I wanted him only. I didn't want to ever share him with anybody. I know now that my career choices were the wrong ones. I should've just settled for a regular job and answered phones somewhere and gone home after work & made him dinner, because I have a feeling now thats what he expected. But since he would never talk much about what he wanted or needed I don't know if I'll ever know. My plan right now is to just get a grip on myself, try to get out of bed each morning and eat & drink something so I don't go back to the hospital. When he calls, be as calm and kind as I can. When he is deployed I pray that his fog will lift & he will consider a 2nd chance for us. But as the MC said last Monday to me, "One person can't save a marriage." I can try, and I will, but I don't know. Right now, I don't have a game plan written down. I barely remember what day it is unless I put a sticky note on the closet door by my bed.

I know you're not being rude or judgemental. But I don't have an exact answer to all of the questions. My friends all say that I am the strongest & toughest person they know. I scared them here these last 2 months. They have come out swinging for me. Right now, my thoughts are jumbled. Like I said before, I can barely get out of bed in the morning. I have to make a list for everything because I can't think. But I know I'd give up everything for him. I used to think, that if I made enough money & was able to be successful as an actor, he wouldn't have to work as a cop and I could keep him safe. He wouldn't have to work. I probably should've told him that more often. I can't imagine life without him. That's all I know.

LAsun,

I sitting her pondering what I can offer you. You need a plan and you need goals, detailed goals with respect to this marriage. Have you talked to your H at all? If so what has he said?

Your opinion of AF wives is a bit condescending I think. I fact I know it is. You have indeed chosen a different path, but the issue is it the path you want? If it is, then perhaps your marriage may be the price you pay for your personal goals. Things are rarely completely either/or. Usually things and relationships are more complex than that. Life is not about occasional phone calls, nor is it an "atta boy" from a distance. Life should be lived together and neither of you saw that as important until now.

I have no idea what your H is thinking, but I do know that you need to start some serious thinking about your marriage. One person cannot save it, but one person can change the dynamics so that it has a chance to be saved.

Has your H filed for divorce? Has he talked or asked for a divorce from you? Is he talking divorce now? or Pushing for a divorce?

He leaves in a few months for over a year. Even if the affair ends and he comes back in a year as your husband, what are YOUR plans. What in your heart do you want to happen? In the best of all worlds what would your life be like?

Please think about these things.

God Bless,

JL

All my husband said in the MC session on Monday was this exact quote,"I only came here so she would understand and finally get that it is over. I knew she'd be upset, but not this upset. Why can't she just move on with her life? I'm moving on with mine. I want a divorce and have already looked into it." **this is the only time he has mentioned that word**

But I went online & he has not filed for divorce.

My response was to shake uncontrollably, cry, sweat profusely and become so dizzy that I had to lay down. Major panic attack.

And WS is being deployed for 6 months. I have that amount of time to write, email, mail packages and try to be as supportive of him as I've always been when he is deployed. My hope is that I can finally get him to open up to me some and converse with him. My goal is for him to say that he wants to try to fix our marriage and that he wants me to move back to Tucson with him. Which I have no problem with.

And believe me, my opinion of AF wives is right on target. I have nothing in common with them. I have yet to meet one that I could hold a conversation with. It's why we always had our own friends. Never have we had the same friends. His were all military and mine were all actors, models & musician and the like. We tried to have a blended bbq once. Did not work out. His homophobe AF friends and my GLBT artsy fartsy friends just didn't work out.

And I have no idea what my husband is thinking. I haven't know what he is thinking most of our marriage. His sister defends him by saying he's a very private man. Yeah, so private his wife doesn't even know what he's thinking. But I still love him. You know that warm, fuzzy feeling you have in your chest when you first start dating somebody? Well I have that same feeling whenever I see him. And I get happy and giggly and just enjoy being with him. But sometimes I wonder if he doesn't find my happiness and laughter annoying? Maybe he finds it an annoying habit? I've learned to curb it alot when he's around. My friends call it the Stepford Mode.

Last time I talked to WS was on Weds. He called to just let me know that work was so busy that he hadn't had time to check on how I was supposed to renew my military ID card. Which he is legally obligated to do while we are still married & he is still active duty. And I think they only reason he called is because he didn't want to get in trouble with his boss for not communicating with me. When he called, I was very calm and nice and didn't ask any questions. Each time I have asked any questions, they are met with silence. I guess in his mind I'm supposed to know how I've wronged him. And this frustrates me to no end.

LA:

Don't give up on contacting him. It could be that he is starting to realize how selfish his actions are. Good job on being in control!

that's what all my friends said to do. take back control. don't be a spaz on the phone.

Congratulations on alienating about half the members of this board. I and my H are both retired AF, so I've been both the active duty and the Air Force wife. I know that MOST military families sacrifice much for their active duty spouses...there's way more to it than staying home and having babies. I feel sad that you've stereotyped Air Force wives the same way that you accused them of stereotyping homosexuals.

...I'm disappointed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Those have been my experiences. Most military functions that I ever attended I sat there in silence because I had nothing in common with any of them and couldn't hold a conversation with them. None of our interests were ever the same. I quit going to his dinners, parties and events. He never asked about my work & I quit asking about his. And why would I be alienating people if I am just stating my experiences? I lived on 2 AFB's. I was the only married couple without any kids in a 2 block radius.

I just got off the phone with one of my friends who went through a really hard break up with his fiance over a year ago. He found out she was cheating 2 mos before the wedding. And he kinda gave me a guys POV on things. He said that he wants the old "take charge" me back & he is very sad to hear me this way. He says if he could get on a plane & come see me today that he would. But he's on an oil rig in the Gulf of Mexico working.

And I can't help but defend my WS to all my friends. To them he has turned into the biggest jerk ever and how can I trust him now & don't understand why I'd want to try & save my marriage. Sometimes I don't understand it myself.

Today I feel like I'm drowning & can't swim to keep my head above water. It's one of those days where I want to go to sleep & wake up somewhere else where I don't hurt.

A friend of mine who is in Israel right now for his job just called. He said he was worried about me and it was Saturday night & I couldn't be home alone. He put me on the list to see this band down in H'wood. He is sending me a car. Everyday I am amazed at how wonderful my friends have been for me. Friends calling me from all over the world giving me their support and strength and I can't get my husband to return a phone call. How screwed up is that? And yet I still adore & love him.

Even out just window shopping today I saw people at Macy's, Bloomingdales, Aveda and American Eagle that knew me because I buy stuff there & they were all hugging me and giving me their phone numbers. My makeup guy at Bloomy's even sat me in his chair & redid my makeup. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Then he said I couldn't cry it off. He gave me his ph# to call if I started to panic. His quote..."Girlllll...you are too fabulous to be crying all the time. Doesn't he know how beautiful and talented you are?"

I love my friends. Without them I would not be here now.

And I got a ton of free samples from Chanel, Smashbox & Aveda. I love free stuff. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

So now I curl my hair because the car will be here at 7:15.

What started out as a horrible day is hopefully gonna end a bit easier & happier. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Got Love Busters book from Amazon today. Just reading over the table of contents I know that he, me, we, have done practically everything wrong. I started reading and the panic at what I've done is almost more than I can handle. But I think his silence is worse. Him not speaking to me. Just shutting himself off. That's the worst feeling in the world. I know I shouldn't beg him to talk to me, but I just want to. I want to call him & beg him for a 2nd chance. I know not everything is my fault, but it sure feels like it...

LA:

It is never just one person's fault, but you should be proud that you are willing to fight for your marriage and not give up.

Not giving up takes a lot of courage and determination. Giving up is the easy way out.

Therapy lady told me to not read LB if it upset me too much. But I want to read at least 1 chapter per day. That's my goal. First acting coach I ever had called today & said she would be praying for me. She also told me that I shouldn't give up. We said a prayer together and made me feel so much better. Then she said to me that I needed to really start pursuing acting because that weight loss will only help me. Turn the negative into a positive.

I went & renewed my military ID card today. I didn't think it would be as hard as it was. Going there & just seeing a uniform made my hands shake really bad and I got a lump in my throat & I could barely sign my name on the card. I called one of my friends and she talked to me on the drive home. But I still keep getting those darn chest pains and the shaking.

I actually talked to my very first acting coach today & she said to read the book of James in the Bible and she said that she was praying for me.

I want to call him and I want to talk to him, but some people say call him & some people say don't call him.

I'm just glad I can come here & vent.

I pray to God that this deployment will clear his fog.

LAsun,

Do you suppose the fact that you are NOT part of his life, look down on his life and the people her works with, and that you are off doing YOUR OWN THING and have been for 7 years just might be part of why he is not bothering to save or try and save this marriage.

When you read about LB's pay close attention to the MOST DEADLY of all LB's, it is called the Disrespectful Judgement, DJ for short. It is where you make assumptions and then act on them. Most of the time the assumptions are wrong and the actions actually make things worse.

You have shown a propensity for making DJ's on this thread, you have shown a propensity for NOT seeing his side of things, but simply yours. What is it that you brought or bring to this marriage?? What is it that you think your H will miss about your marriage?

Please think about this...carefully.

God Bless,

JL

Hey LA:

How are you doing tonight?

I don't know what his side of things are because he doesn't talk to me. He's never told me what his feelings are. Even when I asked. And I've asked him so many questions, but he never answers. I know I haven't been a good wife. And I'm trying to change and learn and don't want it to be too late. Because he never said anything I did my own thing. His constant silence and me not able to breakthough that silence. When we did talk early in our marriage he always said that he found me attractive because I was so happy & carefree and he said I was pretty. Over the years I became quieter and changed my personality to match his. I always supported his career and what he wanted to do, even though I was always scared. I thought he supported mine too.

I don't know what he will miss about our marriage. He won't return my phonecalls and when he does he won't talk about stuff like this. I get silence. And the silence is the worst.

And when I told him I felt uncomfortable at his military functions he said it was ok that I didn't have to go. I guess I shoulda just went and dealt with it.

But on the other hand, I always asked him to come to my recitals or my shows and he never came. I just thought he didn't want to because he didn't like theater or stuff like that.

And thanks so much for the over whelming feelings of dread and panic. Every time you post something I feel helpless, hopeless and that maybe I shouldn't even be trying.

That I've finally realized how bad I've messed up and I should never even thought of having a career. His career should've been my life. If I wanted him I shoulda just never considered a career. Maybe he wanted me to be a wife like his mom who did whatever her husband said to do?

I can't even read the book LB without crying and feeling like I'm gonna have a heart attack because I can see where he & I have done so many things wrong.

LA:

I had a feeling you might take that post harshly. As well meaning as everyone is on this site, some of the posts don't really come off as particularly well meaning, especially if they are giving us a 2 x 4 in the head. Well, sometimes we need that, and sometimes we just need someone to talk to. Hard to tell especially when posts are intermittent. However, my guess would be, since you really haven't had encourages signs from your WS yet, that you just need someone to talk to. Just my take.

Anyways, if you do find someone's posts objectionable, however well meaning, there is an ignore feature you can use. Just a thought.

One minute I think I have a chance and kinda have a handle on things and the next I don't. I call him once each day & I text him once each day. I try to keep things light and not lose it. I want him to feel good when I call. I don't want to be harsh. I want him back. I would leave all of this behind in a minute.

Since this has happened it has opened my eyes. I know how much he means to me. I know somewhere inside he still cares for me. I just want to make it better. Because I might survive physically, but emotionally I will be dead without him. I know that much now.

Well, your determination is very commendable.

Just make sure that in the midst of your plan, you leave room for life, and that should balance you out. All of this can be quite the burden, as I'm sure you know.

Everyday is a torment for me. If I can't get him to talk to me I know he is talking to her. Everyday is panic, fear, uncertainty and me questioning everthing I've ever done. I worry about everything now. Even more than usual.

LAsunshinegirl,

I am not an MC and can only speak from personal experience, but Just Learning was spot-on accurate in assessing my own marital situation three years ago. In retrospect, I could have taken his advice, and saved 3 years of my life by divorcing my wife. Instead, I knocked myself out trying to make Harley's principles work on a person who had no desire to be part of the effort. If I were you, I would listen very closely to what JL has to say. He's a wise person with a knack for bringing hidden problems to the surface.

So I'm to just give up? Not make any effort? Not try to fix my mistakes and try to let him know that I'm still here and not giving up?

LAsunshinegirl,

Only you can make a decision on what your personal boundaries are or should be. The only word of caution I can offer is based on my personal experience. I doubt anyone can succeed with making Harley's principles work if the other person in the relationship is done with it. From what you're describing, your husband could be in that category.

LAsun,

I don't want you to give up, I want you to get started. Until you can see things from his side, you will have no idea how to make a good plan.

You stated in one post
First, as a guy, I see a guy who was NOT going to tell his W how to be a W. He was NOT going to mess with her career. Frankly, If my W were an actoress I am not sure I could stand to watch her especially live. I would be soooo nervous for her that I could not stand it. Part of that is because I don't understand acting or performing. I do understand sports so while I was always nervous when my kids played in HS and college, I understood what was going on and what they could and could not do.

You should feel helpless right now. You don't have a plan. You have not tried to see things from your H's point of view. You assume that if he does not want to talk to you that he "hates" you or something. It could be the opposite. He needs things in life you cannot or have not provided, but that does not mean he does not have love for you, he does not see a way back or toward where he might want to be and he is NOT going to tell you to give up YOUR dreams.

Part of plan A is meeting needs, but those that do that well develop empathy or have empathy for their WS. The individual my hurt like crazy for the betrayal, but they come to see how this could have happened and what might be done to address the issues. You have not done that yet.

You get your feelings hurt when I challenge you. I would prefer that you got so mad at me that you were spitting nails and decided to SHOW me what you have got inside. You call and lean on your friends but that does nothing for your marriage. You are an actress and I would think that would mean you have a certain insight into the human condition, because as you take on roles you must become someone and respond to the other characters. I don't see you using these skills.

If you want to save this marriage plan A is called for and part of figuring out his needs is starting to see things from his point of view. YOu don't have to agree with his point of view, or even like it, but you must see it.

It is time you really sat down and got busy. Calling him is good, emailing him is good, keeping it light can be good, but eventually he will need to hear from you what YOU really want in a marriage, what you dream about, what you are willing to do to get what YOU want in a marriage. And you need to be able to tell him what YOU want in terms he understands which means you need to know or begin to sense his perspective on things.

You will note he has not filed. You will note that he will be deployeed. You will note that you dont' have a plan or a clue, and you keep saying he won't talk to me. He is talking to you, by actions, be emails, by phone calls, by what he told you about himself when you two first started dating. You know more than you realize but you MUST start to focus on what you know, not on what you feel.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

JL,

I'm calling, I'm emailing, I'm sending him text messages and he's not returning any of them. And when he does return my phone call it's very short, curt and to the point. Nothing extra.

And you point is????

You seem to be waiting for him to fix this. Wrong answer.

You have skills, you have talents, you have motivation, so start thinking about this as you suspect he might. Start to learn to speak HIS language. Start to develop a plan for being the W YOU want to be and make it so it is the W he wants as well.

First and foremost YOU need a detailed plan. Your plan cannot be like my diet plans. "I plan to lose 20 lbs." That is not a plan, that isn't even a goal, that is a wish. When one gets serious, they have a detailed plan, with timelines, ideas, fall back positions, how to handle disappointment, and most of all GOALS. Not just "I want to be happy or with him." I want a, b, c, d, e, f, and I am willing to do 1, 2, 3, ... to reach that goal.

You have goals for your career. You have a plan for how to reach those goals. Time to do the same for your marriage and emotional life.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

I have no idea how to devise a plan for this. When I say I want to come to be with him, he says he doesn't even want me in the city of Tucson. I wonder if he's testing me to see if I'll just pack and go and sit on his doorstep until he lets me in. If he lets me in. But he seems so different that I don't know what he is thinking.

I have called to setup an appt with the Harleys. I'll pay $195 to find out what I should be doing. Because I really don't know right now.

I have just made an appt with Dr. Harley for tomorrow morning.

LAsun,

Congratulations, you have taken a concrete step toward saving your marriage. I believe you will never regret spending that money. If anyone can help you save your marriage I believe it is the Harley's.

Just try avoid being defensive and listen with an open mind. You are about to really start learning things that will change your life and any relationships you have now or in the future.

God Bless,

JL

I already asked his coordinator if he would yell at me and she said no. She said he is very nice. I did the 2 surveys and sent an email explaining what has happened over the last 10 yrs or so.

We'll see. Appt is 8:30 a.m. tomorrow morning.

LAsun,

Best of luck. I think you will be happy you have done this. I am happy you are trying this approach. I presume since you said "he" you mean Steve Harley. I have heard he is very very good.

God Bless,

JL

I talked to Steve Harley. And he said that our first step is to ask my husband this question and establish an ideal scenario. "In terms of your happiness would your ideal scenario be to be in love with your wife?"

And then he coached me on what to say from there. I have 4pgs of badly scribbled notes to redo tonight.

My goal is to get spouse to say yes to the question above and then see if he will talk to Steve.

So I am practising my question out loud and trying to do it in a calm and matter of fact way.

That's a girl LAsun. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Just remember this stuff is tough but you have the tools and the help you really need to give yourself the best chance at this.

God Bless,

JL

OMG...I GOT DIVORCE PAPERS IN THE MAIL TODAY.

I'm losing it. The panic attack has started and I had to call somebody to come over. I don't know what to do.

OOOHHHH NOOOOOO! WTF? How are you doing now? I am so sorry. I don't even know what to say. I wish I could be there with you right now to give you a big hug and let you just cry,or scream, or whatever. I would probably do what I do with all my frenz when they are having man problems. I would come over with a HUGE bag of dill pickle chips, ice cream and movies like The Breakfast Club or Old school. And stay up all night watching silly movies like that and getting a sugar high from Mountain Dew. Sooo....if I was there with you that is what I would do. I hope this helps you brigten up just a bit. Remember this: always blessings, NEVER losses. You still have the beautiful you that worked so hard at something you believed in. That is what makes you you. And that is something to admire. Keep posting for support.
God bless,
love always

Missalot, Thank you for your kind words. One of my favorite movies is The Breakfast Club.

My friends just left. Another friend said she is coming over soon to spend the night. My initial freakout is over for now.

I'm watching back to back episodes of L&O: SVU on USA. Just talking to folks online here or having friends call or come over makes me feel better.

Such a crazy day.

LAsun,

Getting divorce papers does not mean you are divorced. You talked to SH today, you have a plan, try it. One never knows how things work out. But, they have no chance if you don't try.

I am sorry to hear of this news, but it is NOT over yet. Hang in there.

God Bless,

JL

There is a clause in the D papers that said that their are restrictions on my behavior. It says it does not give either spouse the right to either harass or bother the other spouse. I have been told that I should not contact by phone or email unless he consider it harassment. I feel torn between contact or no contact.

I called Dr.Harley's office and left him a message. Asked him if I should still contact WH with the question or if there is a different question I should be asking now.

I talked to legal eagle today. He said I can still talk to WH. Just don't freak out and go crazy on the phone. So if I can get him to talk to me I can ask him Steve's questions.

I am still going to mail him his Christmas gift and the 2 other gifts that I got him for his promotion and his birthday. My friends are screaming at me not to, but I still want to send them. So I am going to. I guess it's part of my Plan A. And I'm still trying to get him on the phone to ask those questions.

WS called this morning and I was so flustered that I picked up the phone & talked to him. I know I shouldn't but I did. I wanted to ask him the Steve Harley question but I could barely talk. He said that he knew about the private investigator and he knew about me getting his cellphone bill and he said somebody tried to hack into his email, but that wasn't me. I wouldn't have a clue on how to do that. He blamed me for all of these things.

He just keeps saying it's over, it's over. I just feel sick.

LA:

Now you know that it is ok to talk to him, you have to stay calm when you do, even when he is angry when he calls. If he continues to be angry, just let him know that you look forward to talking to him when he is in a calmer and nicer state of mind and hang up.

I think you should go ahead with your gifts, but don't expect much in return. He seems to have become pretty hard-hearted.

The call started out ok. It's when he started to bring up things that his dad wasn't ok with me living in LA while WS was in Tucson. It seems like everybody is OK with his A but me. And if I asked a question I got silence. He knew that I'd got his cellphone bill changed & he tried to blame his hacked email acct on me, which I didn't do and he somehow knew about the PI I hired.

I was nice. I asked him questions about our relationship and he gave me silence most of the time. I feel sick.

I have decided to mail his Christmas present to him along with his B-day and promotion present. I'm trying to just let him know that I love him still even though he is doing this to me. I guess this is kinda a bit Plan A.

I'm also doing things for me too. I'm still looking at acting and I did new headshots today. So we'll see how things go.

LA:

IMHO, you can't build a marriage by yourself. You can put some actions out there that may turn around a relationship, but at that point it needs the involvement of both.

Learned a lot over the last six months, the hard way. One of the toughest lessons is that it isn't any fun to be the only one that really wants a relationship. Eventually, you get to the point where you want someone who wants to be with you. This is especially tough when you have hopes of spending your lives together.

But in the end, you will find the strength to survive and be the person you need to be regardless of what another person chooses. It would be nice if all marital problems could be worked out, if there were no divorce. But if one person is set on it, in this country, it will go forward.

IMO, the only way to make a win-win situation for yourself is to be the kind of person that another person in their right mind would want to be with, regardless of whether your spouse ever comes to their right mind. That is a win-win situation for me, even if you think now that being the person you are supposed to be without your spouse isn't winning. Remember God has a plan for us all, even if we don't know it. We can allow ourselves to be used by God for good, but we can't make other people choose good if they don't want to.

Don't know if any of this is a consolation or not, but sometimes these thoughts are what we need the most.

The Lord is my Shepherd, I shall not want.

I'm off to buy brown sugar for Christmas cookies, have a good night!

I'm going to call in to MB radio on Friday. See if I can get through. Get some more info from Dr. Harley.

I'm really trying to be a better person for myself. And hopefully he can see that too. Right now, I don't think he's in his right mind. I pray that his mind will come around.

I really hope that he gives you some good advice!

My cookies came out awful! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I've already written down my question.

I hate when the cookies get all burnt & hard. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

What was your question?

I was going to first let him know that I'd talked to Steve Harley & had a question I needed to ask WS. And then I was going to ask him what would be the most successful way for me to implement Plan A when WS was deployed and not in the same place.

You mean you were going to ask Steve Harley that? Please post that once you do.

I was going to ask Dr. Harley from the radio show about the best idea for a Plan A when WS will be so far away.

And if I could get hold of the WS I would ask him the question that Steve Harley asked me to ask him.

WS is just not returning my phone calls.

So instead of retunring my 2 phonecalls, he sends me a once sentence email.

I have continued my nice phonecalls and just left voicemail messages for him. I tell him any new news and that I am OK (though I'm not) and tell him I'm still working on my resume so I can find a job.

Down 52lbs now. My appetitle just won't come back.

Still no phone call or communication from WS. I don't know what to do. Get on a plane? Just show up?

He finally emails me that he will try to call me on New Years Day because he's been busy. And then says that he is not deploying to over seas.

I'm tired of his power plays witht he phone calls. I'm considering telling him that he can just email me. No more phone calls.

Well, another day, another no phone call.

Hang in there, Sunshine! You can make it through! Let him wonder why his phone is so quiet!

I am. i went out. got new headshots. they look fabulous. the photographer said i look like i'm in my early 20's and it went so smooth. i'm emailing them to friends & having a good day. now i'm gonna try to eat.

Yay!!! Sounds great!!

Early 20's is how I've been *feeling* as of late...well...until cramps and things hit the other day! LOL.

As far as looking that way? I don't know. Maybe a little. I don't have a lot of wrinkles yet. I once read that folks with extra oily skin don't wrinkle as much. I don't know if that's true but I know I don't have a lot of them! On Mom's side we are oilslick oily if we aren't careful! So...maybe there is some truth to that. Mom doesn't have a lot of them either.

I think the ones that would bother me most would be the ones around the lips to where lipstick can bleed into them.

Anyway, sorry I got off on a tangent about that! I'd love to see your pics but I know you can't post them here. Darn!

Take care!

Pssshaw.....Oil of old age...it works wonders....but then again my asian genes help alot too....hehehe <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Sunnygirl {{hugs}} sorry I haven't been around much luv....the holidays have been crazy. But I might be headed your way in a few weeks trying to talk my bestfriend into a road trip later this month.

Oil of old age, LOL!

Yeah, and on my dad's side we're talking MAJOR hirsuitism! If I didn't keep up with things I'd be quite a sight! LOL!

I'll join you on your trip! Please? Please? I've been wanting to get out of town for a while. My bro lives in SF, we could swing by there, too!

Sorry for the slight t/j Sunshine!

lemme know when and where doll....my car or yours....email me...it's in my profile.

Your both welcome down here in The Valley with me.

OK, I get ANOTHER email from him saying that he will call Cap 1 & get his cc mess figured out & call me tonight. Let's not hold our breath for that one.

Just reading that stupid email made me start to cry.

I hate his games.

He didn't call. But I didn't cry. I didn't get upset. I cleaned house instead.

At least all my laundry is done. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

LA, I remeber well waiting for the calls. Sometimes I had to give myself a little time out with the phone.

I unplugged it.

Then I could stop listening for the darn thing to ring.

Remember on the other thread....where the advice was to stop calling him and leaving messages? Well another good thing to do is to not always be available when the phone rings. It is actually a good thing that he will think you are not home, when he knows you should be there. Gets him thinking a little...

Love and light,

Nina

OK, he called. I talked, he talked. I may have really screwed up. He said he is retiring at 20 in November. He said he wants to go to the police academy. He asked what I was gonna do & told him there were no jobs here in LA & I wanted to come home to him. I know, I know...stupid, but I just blurted it out. I told him 17 yrs is too long to just quit. And he would need my support to get through the police academy and I wanted to make our marriage better than it was before. Grrr...I feel like I made every mistake imaginable.

Wait, what was his response?

Being truthful in Plan A is never a mistake. You've told him exactly how you feel and now its in his head. It gives him an option.

And stop telling him that there are no jobs in LA. Let him know its THE MARRIAGE you are returning for.

When he told me he was retiring, I asked him if he was having a retirement ceremony. He said probably. I asked if I was going to be invited. He seemed surprised and asked if I'd really want to go? I told him yes I'd want to go. 20 yrs is a long time and I was very proud of his achievements and would like to be there. He didn't say No I couldn't come.

He only said No one time. And that was him trying to tell me that he'd sent the papers and the post office had lost them and why I couldn't understand that it was over.

I told him that I wanted to come back and make our marriage better than what it was. Because we didn't have much of a marriage before and we could both make it better. Lots better. And I told him he'd need my support to get through the police academy. That was a tough 16 weeks and I could be there to support him and help him.

And I told him that I was proud of him and that nobody could care for him as much as me.

And I really hope I didn't grovel too much.

Some of my friends think I shouldn't talk to WS at all. That every time I talk to him he screws with my head and gives me false hope or I see hope where there is none. They think that because he's filed D papers that it is over. This has really put me in the dumps. I really love these friends, and they have been a great help to me, but they just don't seem to understand.

LAsunshinegirl

I've followed your story all along.........I just wanted to mention that.
I see where you are and you truely sound like a great person........I can honestly feel with you.

What was it that was attracting for your husband when you first came together???

Honestly I believe that only someone hat has been in the shoes of infidelity can truely understand what you are going through..............and what you are feeling.

hugs
bb

Honestly and I'm not trying to sound conceited or vain, but I'm sure it was my looks that attracted my husband. (There is a pic of me on the MB pics thread) Not so much much my body because I'm kinda chunky, but my face, my hair and my eyes. I used to laugh alot and I'm kinda hyper. So he probably saw a very pretty girl who was very happy.

And we used to be very touchy-feely when we were alone. But as the years went by, we didn't touch each other as much. Not as much hand holding, back rubs, affectionate touches etc...

And he knows that I've lost alot of weight in the last 3 months & he hasn't seen it. I think I look alot different than I had. I want him to see me in a new light. In a new way.

My friends say that I should just hang it up & move on, but he means too much to me. Even after all he has done, I still love him.

And every time the phone rings I'm hoping it is him. Sad and pathetic.

I really hope, he is having problems sleeping at night.

LA,

I'm going to go out on a limb here and express an observation that I have made in reading your threads here. You seem to be somewhat obsessed with your own looks.

I don't see that as a problem as long as you understand that looking good isn't going to be the thing that brings your WH home. There are loads of BS's here whose WS affaired down meaning that the OP was much less attractive than the BS.

In my situation, the OW was quite over weight and very plain. She dressed like an old woman and didn't care about her hair or make up at all. She isn't even in the same league with me in the looks department, and still, my FWH chose to have an affair with her because she was meeting needs that were important to him that I was neglecting.

So, while it may be true that you are attractive, and I have seen your pix, clearly, the OW is meeting some needs that you haven't been. Please try to figure out which ones and start trying to meet those needs.

Best,

Who

LA,

I reread my post and wanted to make sure you didn't feel like I was criticizing you, cause I'm not. I think that there are many here who feel that their WS chose the OP because they were more attractive and will feel insecure about that.

I don't know if you have seen the OW or not, but the fact is, she is probably less attractive than you are.

IMHO, that carries with it it's own issues. When I learned of my FWH's A and who the OW was, I was like WTF.

I just didn't understand that she sensed in him a desperate need to be admired and fussed over and really proceeded with a deliberate plan to break up our marriage.

She was/is so unattractive that my FWH is still a bit embarrassed about it. Still, he had a long distance affair with her for 8 months.

Who

I don't see besides the post above me talking about my looks. But I have no idea what OW looks like. I don't wanna know. I just want to do what it takes to make my husband happy.

Hopefully he calls me back since I called & left him a message.

With the exception of the people on this board, I only have 4 friends who hope that I reconcile with my husband.

I think most of them are trying to protect me and don't want me to hurt anymore. It's hard to hear them bash my husband when I know with the exception of this incident he has been a really good man. I don't know what to say them except that he's a good guy he's just confused.

Hi LA,
sorry that I didn't post sooner..........I had the flu. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I had asked you what attracted your husband at the beginning.....you wrote your looks and you being the happy going gal......the "touchyness" that you went through and sorta went away during the years.
Well, I'd say that the looks of a woman can be indeed an important "Emotional Need" for a man and the mixture of good looks + humor can indeed be highly attractive for a man when he meets a woman. (True Beauty comes within a person....it gives a person a special glow.) This mixed with SF usually works in every relationship at the beginning.

But you also wrote that this changed during the years....

This is where I'd say that looks no longer play the most important role in a relationship.

Your looks will probably always attract him.......and if you have read about Emotional Needs here in MBers.....you will understand that this will probably always be important for your husband. But it's the mixture of fullfilling needs.....

My husband and I will be married for 28 years this year. When we met, I was 14yo. Chirpy, happy, easy going and I'd say my husband was facinated about my looks and my humor and we couldn't keep our hands off each other.

Now so many years later and the fact that we've been through so many stages of life.........I know that looks are indeed important for my husband but I also know that it always depends on the mixture........

My husband had an affair with a woman that looked somewhat like me..........only that I had changed. I am NOT saying that it was my fault that he choose to have an affair.......NO WAY.

I'm trying to say that it was the mixture of many things that attracted him to this woman. I'd say due to the fact that I am NOT ugly....he was craving for humor, admiration and a woman that wasn't clingy.

I had lost that..........during the years. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> When my husband and I talk about our situation it becomes clear why this happened throughout the years. We were in the cycle of reality. Children, business and many other things.......

We lost what we call...........our "golden thread" that held us together for the greatest time of our relationsip.
(hope you understand)

So my husband was somewhat looking for what "we" had shared for so many years..........only he didn't realize that he could have it all with me if he would of been capable to give his 100%. No relationship works if only one side is taking and the other only gives.

It seems to be that this is a big problem for many relationships..........

I was giving..........and he was taking..........and that sucked!!!! I slowly but surely didn't have much to laugh about anymore and there wasn't anything truely there to admire.

We lost the contact with each other. My looks didn't count anymore..............

Hmmmm, this is getting long isn't it?? Sorry.

When I read your thread, I just noticed that you are being told to contact him everyday.......he's telling you to leave him alone....he's backing off and you're pressing.

This situation isn't easy.........and I do feel with you.

Have you ever thought about what would happen if you choose to Plan B???

Right now, he is making the choice whether to contact you or not and you are taking what you can get.

He knows how you tick. I understand from what you wrote that he wants you to back off.

Pressuring him is a turn off for him. What do you think will happen if you do back off???

I know that you want to stay married and I am definately PRO marriage, don't misunderstand me.

I just think that it is important for you to concentrate on yourself right now and to become the person you once were.

A happy, fun person.............and you weren't that way because he was there. You were happy because YOU were YOU!!!!

Backing off and do everything for yourself to achieve happyness within yourself can be the most attractive point your life.

Pressuring him seems to be a complete turn off...........I'm sorry for being so blunt.

Get him thinking...........what will he think if he doesn't hear from you anymore..........turn the cycle around.

I hope that I am not off track for your situation...........I just do know that looks + humor + independent behaviour mixed together seem to be highly attractive...............

You wrote that he's confused..............very true. Affairees are always confused...........it's up to you to confuse him even more...........get him into the thinking mode. Plan B. Do all you an for yourself. Read all about Plan B and what affect it can have.

bb

PS: I keep finding things I want to say. I'm surrounded with many very beautiful women.......honestly.....they are so beautiful....I have to grasp at times. But many of them are unhappy. Most of them are separated or in the misc of separating. Everything about them seems so perfect.....the only thing that really seems to be missing is the sparkle that comes from deep down inside. When they are involved with a man......they seem to be all twirled up about their looks and about this man.....that they seem to forget about themselves.

I know that my looks are important and I don't want to neglect that.....but I do know now that being happy deep within myself reflects more beauty than anything.....mostly in the mornings waking up and looking at my husband......the sparkle in my eyes speaks more than a thousand words......it's just that that keeps me attractive for my husband. My enthusiasm about seeing him and being with him even when I am having a "terrible hair" day.....

I think this is what truely makes a woman attractive for a man......it even makes less attractive women beautiful.

Today was very frustrating. I have days where I think I might have a chance of fixing this mess & then days like today where I question everything. It is very frustrating.

And listening to Pink Floyd doesn't work either.

I don't know if I should order 500 new headshots and sign up for 2 new acting classes or not.

And I don't have a job. The mortgage business stinks and there are no jobs.

I'm having a pity party of one today. I've lost 3 more lbs though. That's one good thing.

Nice post blondblossom. Very meaningful.

I want him to find me attractive and want me again, but I don't know if me not calling will make a difference. I don't know if it makes a difference to him.

I want to send him my new headshot pics, but I have a feeling that he would be upset by them because they have to do with what caused us to not live together and what he resents most...my career.

I spoke with my therapist tonight. Cried my eyes out. She has suggested that maybe I should not talk to WS for awhile and concentrate on just me. My acting, my networking, my finding a job. And if he calls, he calls. If he doesn't, oh well. I guess you might call it a soft plan B.

Step 1: sleep. going to bed early. be good to me.

A very good thought, YOU are "JOB 1" GF

Hi LA,

I hope you had a good nights sleep. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Have you ever read about the Inner Child??? I'm sure others here might be able to help you out with finding a good book or two about this topic.

I'm not in the US and therefore I haven't got any english books concerning this topic.

The urge to send your husbad headpics..........well.....I'd personally back-off from this. It seems to me that one of your Top Emotional Needs is admiration.......nothing bad about that......but it doesn't seem to be your WS top need.


Therefore it will only pressure him.........the same as your calls have. (sorry don't want to come over bluntly but I do want to be honest)

I think that what your therapist told you is correct!!!
Concentrate on YOU!!!

Take it day by day and disconnect yourself from unhappy situations. Do everything possible that will give you something positive to think about. Feed your "Hurt & lonely" inner child with happy things.

It will make a difference for your WS.......believe me.

You have somehow gotten into a cycle that does either you any good nor your WS.

This is not going to be easy for you but it surely is possible. Use all your energy for something that will have a positive outcome and that is the "Wellbeing" of you!!!

Because if you reach the point where you learn to trust yourself and you're happy with that..........you will NOT need the reassurance from your WS.

This is what I find attractive. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Don't send him anything!!!! Ask yourself what you want by doing this???

What do you believe will be the outcome???

He knows what you look like.............

I'd just like to tell you something else from my story.The OW in our situation was very good looking. She knew it and everybody told her that all the time. She was pretty, good body, nicely dressed,had her nails done pefectly all the time, her hair was perfect all the time........everything was perfect.........

When the affair with my husband came t the light........he stopped he affair immediately.
After that..........I/we went through 3 YEARS of hang-up calls, OW driving past our house, and OW driving past the place where my husband works. OW stopped him 2 times in the car just to talk to him.

This was a complete "turn off" and it displayed how needy this OW was. She didn't seem to have a life of her own.

Even though this was a OW.......and the fact that she wasn't in the position to be a part of my husbands life...........it displayed clearly what a turn-off it can be.It was a complete turn off for my husband and fo OWH.

OWH kicked her out of the house an we had a talk with him.

When it came to OW looks.........her husband said: She used to look pretty to me...........but now.........hmmmm......NO I do't think she's pretty anymore. I want her out and I don't want to see her face anymore..........

LA..........I know that you cannot be compaired with this OW in my situation.............nor with any OW. Please don't misunderstand me. You are trying to do everything to save your marriage. This is very honerable and displays great character qualities.

It's just a matter of finding the right way and finding the right direction.

Don't make the same mistake as the OW in our situation. There are so many other qualities that make a woman "beautiful & attractive & interesting" for her man.............

hugs
bb

I won't be contacting WS at all. I talked it over with the psychiatrist this morning. He also agreed that I was correct by not contacting WS if it upsets me so much. I am going to sign up for 2 new acting classes today.

I just hope it works. I hope I'm not shooting myself in the foot.

Hi LA,

I wish you only the best........ <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />. No one can tell you what the outcome is going to be......

You cannot change your WS...you can only change you.

hugs
bb

Hey your gonna have fun this weekend if I have to drag you out of the house myself <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Today I actually feel pretty good. I've made a phonecall & setup an appt with a one on one acting career coach to go over my headshots and resume. And I'm gonna go down to Samuel French and get the Agent/Managers directory. I'm gonna start looking for a manager and a commercial agent.

WS...I don't know what he is doing right now. He owes me a phonecall. And I won't be the one calling him first.

Hi LA,

you sound great!!! (cyber hug from me)

I hope I haven't been off track with what I have so far written to you. Wasn't meant to hurt you..........

I wish I could also come over and drag you outta the house on the weekend. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I'm sure we'd have a ball!!!

Stay on track and keep yourself busy.

bb

Yeah, I got the agencies and managers listings and I'm gonna go through them & choose who I'm going to submit to for representation. It will keep my mind on things that make me happy.

Got a lead on a day job. Recruiter got my resume from a friend. Hopefully it pays close to what I was making before I got layed off from mortgage biz. Recruiter supposed to call today.

Hi LAsunshinegirl,

I've been following your thread since your first post, but have never written anything to you before because it seems like you're getting great advice from the veterans and I don't think I could add anything.

But I wanted to just say Hi and that I'm rooting for you. I know how painful it is to want something so badly while the other person could seemingly care less. Don't beat yourself up so much. Have fun with SIHM this weekend.

Thank you. Yes, I'm getting great advice from everyone here & I've got my fingers crossed that things will work out.

Thank you for your support! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I just found out that taking a nap in the afternoon is really great. Gonna have to do it more often.

Have not spoken to WS in over a week. And I feel pretty good. I look at his pictures though. But I am trying not to over analyze and just be relaxed and calm.

I went to see therapy lady again today. I think she is really helping. I feel more confident about everyday things. Still just working on me. Not going to worry about WS for awhile. I wonder when he'll contact me next?

LA,

good to hear that you're sticking to your plan. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Get him thinking..............get him wondering.........

hugs
bb

I'm tryingg my hardest. It's hard sometimes to not stare at that phone. But I'm not gonna call. Just gotta get through the weekend.

Well it's Sunday & he still hasn't called or returned my emails. But I haven't had any panic/anxiety attacks either. I'm just gonna go day by day. And tomorrow is my acting coach career consulatation and I'm excited about that. I'm excited about me. Excited that I'm making myself happy and not stopping my life and waiting for him to figure out where his head is.

Yay Sunshine!!

You are getting STRONGER!!!

And you will continue to get STRONGER and STRONGER

And grow and grow and grow!!!

Take care & have a great day!!

Charlotte

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> Good Gal!!!!!!!!!!

hugs
bb

Had a nice dinner with SIHW tonight. She was in town & we got together. It was alot of fun. She got to meet my 4 furry-children. It was good to be able to talk to somebody who understands whats going on in my life.

LA,

She got to meet my 4 furry-children.

What kind of furry children do you have???? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

bb

I have 4 cats. 2 fluffy siamese looking boys, 1 female ginger tabby and 1 female black & white. All very spoiled. All adored by me.

LA,
4 seems to be a lucky number... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I've got 4 fluffy guys too. With one exception............I've got four dogs.
2 Havanese, 1 pug and a king-sized poodle.

They've always given me strength..........and I also love them more than anything........... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

hugs
bb

I loved her little black and white but it was painful to pet her....every time I did I got a static shock....haha. It was nice meeting up and spending some time out. I got back around 10:30 pm and just crashed on my friends couch as I was falling asleep in the car....5 mins and I was out.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I checked my bank balance this morning. Looks like WS has remailed the D papers to me from the USPS. Wonder when they will show up? Had a bit of a meltdown and I feel really bad today.

Went to my career consultation for acting and the consultant was awesome. She'd been through a D too and knew I was just barely hanging in there today.

I don't know if I should call him or not.

Any advice would be great.

I wouldn't.

don't call

OK. No calls. But I am going to take a few Ativan and try to eat some lunch. I am really down. I thought our last phone conversation was pretty good. I guess not. My chest hurts and my arm is getting tingly. Trying not to have a panic attack. Stupid, stupid husband. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I had a great consultation with the acting career coach. She was wonderful. Really helped me plan my attack on agents, managers and we chose pics. Made me feel good. She has been through a D too and knew what I was going through. She was glad that I was moving forward and getting my acting stuff in gear. She loved my look and gave me a long list of things to-do. Which I am starting tomorrow morning. I have it all layed out on the kitchen table.

Even though I'm moving forward, I'm not giving up on WS. He's in such a thick fog. He's like a zombie. I guess I will keep ignoring him and not calling and just wait & see what he does.

"a few Ativan"?

Should we be worried? -Just checking.

It sounds like you are coping fairly well, that comment just got me concerned.

A few is 2. 2 usually works.

I am just starting to cope somewhat OK. I used to be a complete mess. Really...I was a mess.

I know. {{{{{ LA }}}}}

I just didn't want you to add another problem to your list. It's ok to use the tools in the right way, but you don't want to stray into abuse and addiction. You have enough problems to deal with.

It's good to hear you feeling a bit more stable.

I'm a list maker, so I actually have a little notebook that I write down when ever I take my medication. I don't want to forget & then take too much. I definitley don't want any problems with addiction. I'd become a Hollywood cliche.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I'm glad to hear you are being careful and responsible.

Today should be OK. I go see therapy lady today. And I'm working on my acting stuff.

No contact from WS. It's been 11 days since he last called. And I haven't called him.

He still hasn't called. I wonder what he's planning. Or if he's planning anything. My therapist said that it is extremely rude of him to not call or be in contact with me.

LA,
I could imagine that he's also "wondering" what's going on. Don't try to make any sence out of his behaviour......WS are ´"self-centered" and they just don't function "logical".

Give this time.............I don't believe that anyone can "simply" forget & throw away" a past relationship....

Stick to your plan and stay away from painfull situations.

Let your WS live his "fantasy" ............reality will "for sure" sink in......even if it might take awhile.

I think that you have all the reasons in the world to be prowd of yourself and honestly I "admire" you. Stay Strong!!!

hugs
bb

I am almost 100% sure that he re-sent the D papers again. Just from the debits in the bank acct. So I'm just waiting for the mailman to knock on the door. I don't want to freak out again. I'm tryint to be strong & get myself ready for it.

I really don't think he has any idea that this is going to be very, very difficult.

Well...the mailman knocked at the door. I sat frozen on the couch & couldn't bring myself to answer. He left a little card in the door. That I have to go to the PO to pick up the package. I didn't think I'd have a panic attack this time. But I was wrong. I feel so awful. I want to call him, but know I can't. I'm afraid of what I'd say. I just feel sick.

I don't know what to do now.

Hi Sunshine,

I'm sorry you are feeling so down. I wouldn't call him if I were you.

You know, you can always wait the 10-15 days that the P.O. holds the certified and they will send it back to him.

I don't know what others might say, but that is an option. It's up to you.

No, I can't. My attorney said to go to the PO & get it tomorrow. I'll go get it and take care of it & get it sent back to my attorney. But I'm gonna cry the entire time.

Ah. I see.

Well, it was worth throwing out there.

Just hang on. Hang in there! We'll all be behind you here. Think about all of us being with you in spirit. Because we will be.

The atty said minimum 6 mos to do a D. I can only hope that WS will come out of his fog and realize what he is throwing away. Who he is throwing away.

I will be thinking of you all & using you all for strength. And I'll make my trip to the post office. I'll wait til I get home to have my meltdown.

Hi LA,

even if we don't know each other............I can honestly feel what you are going through............. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

These "ups & downs" truely suck............

We are here for you no matter what................. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

hugs
bb

I thought I'd be ok. I'm not. I'm a mess again. I'm crying & shaking and can't stop. I hurt so bad. My heart hurts so bad.

LA,
first of all, I'd like to give a BIG cyber hug......gosh do I wish I could do this in person..........

Sometimes it really does help to let all the emotions out.....it releases the inner pressure.
This is completey normal.............and I can truly relate with you.

There were times when I felt like I was going to go crazy and I thought I wouldn't make it through the pain......it's amazing though, when I look back.....to how much pain one can deal with and with every little step and emotional outbreak it did get better.

I wrote to you at the beginning about the "Inner Child" and if you have ever dealt with that......books or whatsoever??
You might want to talk to your therapist about this......

There are ways to learn to cope with this pain and there are techniks that you can learn to comfort yourself.......

LA, you are stronger than you think............have trust in yourself. Being alone gets us into the mode at times when we believe we can't cope with these situations and we tend to believe that we (the BS) are off-track.

But I'd say it's the opposite, when I now look back.......

Just because your WS has some OW he might believe that he is strong and he's doing the right thing........but he will have his "wake up"call sometime.
It doesn't work that way.......it never has and it never will.......

It's improtant for both parties to take a deep look into the relationship and it's very important to find the true reasons why the relationship went the wrong direction. It's never one-sided.

It's just sad that many WS think that all problems will be gone when they switch partners.......and when they are not grown-up enough to at least be honest and open to talk about the situation............

Therefore in your situation and once you become aware of it.......you an use this as a chance to grow and concentrate on "you"............

No matter how sad you might feel about your situation.......you have many reasons to be prowd about yourself.....

Who knows what might happen if you learn to "accept" what you cannot change???

Have you ever sat down and written a list of Pro's and Con's??? What things have changed for the positive during the past months or weeks?? (even if they appear to be very little things)

I hope that I'm making sence to you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

hugs
bb

The only pro that has happened in the past months is that I'm 40+lbs thinner. I look good. I am a different person. I think I'm softer inside. I am more understanding and I've become a better listener.

If it wasn't so noisy outside, I'd take a nap. But I don't know if I could sleep. I'm just kinda numb right now.

I'm going out to lunch. Gonna try to eat food.

I was talking to a woman I highly respect and she went through what I'm going through. She said that calling WS every once in awhile to let him know I'm thinking of him wouldn't be a bad idea.

What do you all think?

LA,

I can't tell you what to do...but the fact that you are feeling down gets me thinking the following:

Can you accept the possibility that the outcome of a call might get you twirling even more??
Can you accept that he might get your hopes up high again??

What do you expect from a phonecall every now and then???
(haven't you had that before??)

If the plan you are now in, is called Plan B.........I'd say, stick to it in order to keep yourself away from further pain........

A bit of Plan A + a bit of Plan B and a bit of Plan AB.....don't work.....at least not from what I have seen in the past 6 years since I have been here.

Do you have the possibility to talk with Steve Harley???
I think that could/would help you a great deal to create a plan that will have an affect.

Even though I am more than sure that not contacting your WS is getting him wondering..........

hugs
bb

I've decided not to call. Let him wonder. My wonderful friend at lunch said not to call either.

Thanks BB. You've helped me alot.

Saw therapy lady today also. She also stated that I should not call. She was glad that I had made plans for my life & I was moving forward and not stagnating and just sitting in a holding pattern waiting for WS to wake up out of his fog.

{{{{{ LA }}}}}

Kudos for being strong and not calling!

I'm not a pro (and I don't play one on tv <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ) so I don't have any advice. I just wanted to express some emotional support. I hope you are keeping yourself busy.

Yep. Not gonna call him. We'll wait & see when he calls next. I've got a full weekend and plenty of things to do. I'm puppy sitting & that will keep me plenty busy.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> Good Gal!!!!!!
Gosh am I happy for you..........stay strong.....even when you feel you can't take it anymore.....it'll get better.
(the ups & downs are completely normal------ <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />)
hugs
bb

Yep, today I really wanted to call him & tell him about the puppy I'm taking care of. But I haven't & I won't. I'm a little down today, but I'm gonna be strong and take puppy for lots of walks. He's such a spaz! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Don't call. Don't call. Don't call. And, in case I haven't mentioned it, Don't call.

I'm not. I wrote a sticky note & put it by the phone. "DO NOT CALL!"

Today is OK. The puppy went home & my cats are mad at me. But they will get over it. I got a lead on a job in the mortgage biz & I applied online last night. Hopefully I'll get an interview. Still no contact from WS. I have no idea what he's thinking or feeling. The puppy tried to eat my D papers last night. I think I shoulda let him chew on them a bit. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

LA,

good to hear that you're doing somewhat ok <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Did you get the D papers sent to you again?? (did I miss something?)

I also hope fo you that you get an interview for that job!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

I'm more than sure that it is a good thing to not contact your WS and to let things calm down.........he will for sure be wondering what is going on and why he's not hearing from you, but let that be, even if it isn't easy.

Do you have any contact with shared friends??

Just to get your situation clear for me........you are still living in Calif. and your WS lives in a different state?? right?
Did you live together with him, where he's living now???
Do you have private things at the place where he lives???

Does he live in rent or in a house that belongs to both of you??? Sorry if this sounds nosy, isn't meant to be.

Are there things that have to be dealt with??? Finances and stuff like that???

You wrote that you got D papers.........is this something that is final? I'm not aware of the laws in the US.....
what exactly does that mean when you get D papers???

hugs
bb

LOL Let me guess... so you could truthfully say, "The dog ate my (divorce) homework!"

I'm glad to hear you are staying strong.

The first time the papers were delivered wrong, so he had no idea I had received them. The 2nd time he served them correctly. So now he knows I have them.

We do not have any shared friends. He's still in AZ & I'm still here in CA. I never lived with him in his apt in AZ. I do have personal items at his apt and we have a storage unit that has alot of my personal items in it in AZ. He rents that apt and I rent mine here in CA. I take care of all the finances. I pay all the bills from a joint acct. Me getting the D papers just gets the ball rolling. I told my attorney to drag this out as long as possible so that I could work on me and us. WS doesn't have an attorney and is trying to do all of this himself. I don't know what he is thinking. He is really in a fog.

But I'm still not gonna call.

I am trying to stay strong. Trying to think positive and do positive things that make me feel good. I think I'm finally growing up a little bit. I always said I never wanted to grow up & I never wanted to lose touch with that feeling of being young and carefree that I had when I was a youngster. It's still there, but not as much.

So he hasn't called. I haven't called him. I do see that he has been eating out alot. I checked the checking acct online. I hope he isn't taking her out for lunch or dinner. That makes my heart hurt.

I woke up this morning in a panic attack. Stupid bad dreams. I had this dream that we were having dinner with a bunch of his friends and they were all talking about how great OW was how much they liked her. While I was sitting there. I woke up feeling so bad. I wanted to call him and tell him that I was better than OW. Couldn't he see that? But I didn't. I got up & cleaned house. This sucks.

LA,

could you please call Steve Harley and ask for his advise in your situation??? I think he could really help you make out a plan...............
I'm really feeling with you and I truely feel the pain you are going through.

I just think that it could really help to hear what SH has to say about the fact that you are living so far from one another............please try to phone him up and talk to him, I'm sure that this money would be a great investment.

hugs
bb

BB

Already had a session with Dr. Harley. He gave me a couple of questions to ask WS. But right now WS won't even take my calls or return my calls. So that's why I'm not callling. Let him call me. And when he calls I implement what Dr. Harley said to do. Which just makes WS reiterate over and over that our M is over. So I figured not talking to him for awhile would be best.

Still haven't called WS. I won't. But I'd sure like to know what he's up to. I miss him. Today is not going to be a good day.

Hey LA..

((((((((LA))))))))

Every day you're alive is a great day!

Look around you!

Look in the mirror!

He cannot take that away!!!

Have you read Ark's "be still"??

I can imagine this must be tough...

Hang in there, LA <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Yes, I read the "Be Still" essay. I wish I had read it back in October. Because maybe I wouldn't have lost it like I did.

Today just seemed to be bad. I tried really hard to be "up" and happy, but I just wanted to be in bed all day. But I can't sleep and the only way to get to sleep is to take really heavy duty meds & I don't like to do that during the day.

I just want him to call. I want him to want to call & talk to me.

I am trying so hard to stay positive. I keep praying he will call me. A friend of mine called from Texas and he said that if not calling him kept me from any anxiety attacks then it's best not to call him.

LA,

please stay strong...........for your sake. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> My thoughts are with you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
hugs
bb

I am staying strong. I went with SIHW to Yorba Linda today & looked at a dog she may adopt. It was a good long drive & kept my mind off of things. Made today easier.

Keep it up, you can do this.

Still have heard nothing from WS. I'm making lists for myself each day to keep me occupied and so I don't call. I do wonder alot what he's up to. But I try not to think too much.

I started reading again. Regular books. Not just marriage books. I also got a call for an audition. Not sure if I'm ready to go out and audition yet. Tonight for some reason a warm sense of well being washed over me. Like everything will be alright. I don't know. But I felt calmer and was actually able to enjoy my book tonight. So maybe something is happening with WS and it will be revealed to me soon. It sounds corny, but that's just the feeling I got.

how long has it been since you've talked?

it's been a month for me. I'm a little sad about it but it's less stressful.

Jan 4th was the last time he called. He acts like a different person. Which is the fog of course. I really miss our conversations that we used to have. I miss him.

Or maybe, something good is happening with YOU. I know that this has been a struggle for you, and am glad that you are at least beginning to find a little peace. Right now, try to focus on what you can do to make yourself feel better. Foggy WH's can't really help you with that.

Who

I agree that good things are happening for me. Because I feel better emotionally & physically. I've also started working harder on my career. And my friends have been great in giving me the support & advice that I need right now.

LA, I saw your photo on the MB group. You are lovely.

Thank you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> My therapy lady said that I seemed stronger. That I wasn't as shakey and undecided. She was glad that I didn't have to take any ativan today. That I didn't have any panicky moments & that I was able to go out & run all of my errands and be fine. Working on me was harder than I thought. But I wonder if it will make a difference to him. I have a feeling he will be calling again soon. It's getting close to pay day for us both & he'll want to know if I paid the bills. Which is silly because he knows I'm totally OCD about things being paid on time.

LA,

wow.......it sure sounds as if "you" are benefiting from being in Plan B. This is what it is meant for. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Staying away from "pain & agony" can/will become a new habit. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

I'm sooooo happy for you. But be aware that the "ups & downs" will still come and go......this is natural. Stick to your plan, you're doing great!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You mentioned bills..........WHAT bills do you have to pay??Just interested.....I mean, if he wants "nothing" to do with you...."why" financially??

hugs
bb

Well we still have joint checking/savings acct. And I've always been in charge of paying all the bills. Which I do every payday. And he has still let me pay them. Probably laziness on his part.

Yeah, there have been up & downs too. But I try to shake myself out of them. I usually call a friend and they talk me out of it.

But mentally I'm in a better place. Haven't had a panic attack in over 2 weeks.

LA,

Well we still have joint checking/savings acct. And I've always been in charge of paying all the bills. Which I do every payday.

Remember...........you can't change him........but YOU can sure change YOU!!!! I'd now consider making a change with this!!!!

hugs
bb

It's more of a control issue with me. I like paying the bills. I know where the $$$ is. And for right now, I need that control.

LA,

And for right now, I need that control.

"Why" do you believe this?? What do you think will happen, if you "don't" pay the bills anymore?........

hugs
bb

If I don't pay them, I don't know if he will. He isn't as dedicated to getting things done as I am. He procrastinates. I don't. And my name is on most of these accounts and I don't want them to not get paid & affect my credit rating.

LA,

And my name is on most of these accounts and I don't want them to not get paid & affect my credit rating.

I'm not trying to be nosy.........but is there any way to seperate these things??? I mean........get them into "your" name only???
I'm saying this because it would be a great way to "give him a dash of reality"......I don't know what kind of bills you mean but if you are NOT living together and if he is NOT responding to you in anyway.......then why should you "pay" for his things???

I've been here for quite some time now and from what I have read so far.......if you're in a Plan B that means that you seperate yourself from everything.......in order to give him the chance to see what it is like to "live" with all of the responsibilty for himself. Therefore he will have to deal with this on his own.......

Otherwise, he's having his cake and he's getting it "sugar-coated" with this bonus from you, taking care of the finances.

I think that you are no longer responsible for taking care of him financially...........fill me in if I'm off-track.

hugs
bb

For me to feel "safe", I need to take care of the money situation. It's one of the things that scares me the most. Especially since I don't have a full time job right now & I'm on unemployment. I would be a nervous wreck if I didn't take care of this. And I think he knows that & that's why he lets me. In a way it's also my way of showing him that I still care and would not hurt him, even though he has destroyed me.

LA,




So right now, you are paying the bills but he is providing the money to pay the bills. Right?

Who

Correct. We have a joint acct. My unemployment checks and his pay check go into that account and then I pay all of our bills combined out of that account. I will continue to do so for as long as he lets me. I don't think it's wrong or anything. I still haven't had any contact with him since 1/4.

I feel that he's going to call soon. And I have no idea what I'm going to say to him. It makes me nervous.

Today is not a good day. I feel on the edge of panic for some reason. I have no reason to be, but I am. I even took 2 ativan to try to stop the fear & anxiety. February is not going to be an easy month.

If he does call, what should I say?

LA,
I'm sorry that you are having a down............I'm feeling with you.

If he happens to call..........I'd do my best to be as sweet as sugar. Be friendly, soft and ask no questions.....
get him "thinking"......see what happens...

hugs
bb

Still no call. But I've paid bills and done all of my work. Today is one big headache. Really. I have a headache. I don't know why. Stress maybe. But I've decided to just wing it and I'm gonna stay in today & hang with the cats. Nap time is getting close. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

LA,

I don't really have much to add... just wanted to tell you that I know how hard it is, and you are doing great, and just keep hanging in there ok?

mlhb

Still no contact from WS. For some reason today I got really shakey and teary. Haven't been that way in some time. I just shook it off and read the newspaper. I really hope he is wondering what I'm doing.

Had to send email to WS. No response from him. I have no idea what he is up to. Hope he's thinking about me.

haven't called and have had no response to my email. It's like he's fallen off the face of the earth. But I got a call from a friend today that had just found out and she was very positive and made me feel better. She said she supported any decision that I took. Which made me feel good.

Finally received a one sentence email from him. He was telling me about the credit card problem. I replied and thanked him. I don't know if he will call though. I feel sick to my stomach.

keep being silent and aloof. it is the only way he has a chance to miss you and to think about you. you are doing the right thing.

i would seriously consider getting the bills into either your name or his. i am sure you must feel a sense of somewhat control knowing you can view the joint checking account and see if and where and maybe who he is spending money on. i would be kind to yourself and not put yourself through that.

i remember going through what you are going through the second time my ex and i had separated. the best thing i did for me was the counseling and the moving on with my life. i remember my counselor telling me to "put the ball into his court" by telling him one final time how i felt and that the door was open when he was ready to talk about us, but until that point in time i was going to move on and live my life and not contact him or talk to him about R stuff period. and i stuck to that. I went to work, worked out a lot, kept busy, and left him alone. and, most importantly, left him wondering.

you can do this...

mlhb

Well I'm being silent and aloof. I'm working out like a mad woman at the gym. I like to tire myself out so I can sleep better at night. I've ordered new headshots and I've kept looking for a day job here and doing my usual stuff. Still no appetite. Don't feel like eating. But I'm trying. I wonder all the time if he is wondering about me. I hope so. I'm going to start seeing therapy lady only once a week now. I think I'm strong enough. We'll see how it goes. My anniversary is coming up. I don't know how I'm going to handle that. It would be our 17th.

I hope I can do this...

Well, haven't heard anything from WS. I guess that's not a bad thing. Because I get really scared when he does call. I'm just hoping that I'm not messing things up even more. And sometimes I think too much. And I have imaginary conversations with him because there are things I want to tell him, but I won't call him.

(((LA)))

I don't really have any advice... I just wanted to let you know that I'm thinking about you and that I'm praying for you and your H.

Semper Fi,

RIF

Hi Sunshine!

I'm just dropping by to let you know I'm thinking about you. I have been reading here a lot but not posting much and your thread is one I check regularly.

Just hang in there, Sweetie, you are going to come out on top of all of this and be a stronger person no matter what happens. I never liked hearing that statement when I first started here because I wanted to hear that I would be stronger with a stronger marriage. I'm sure everyone feels the same way.

But you know what? It's true!! You will get there, Milady! I did!

I saw your photo on the photo thread. I added mine but it's not in there yet. And one of Jonesy, before he was Mr. Gray, if that's allowed.

It is a beautiful photo but you know what struck me? The sadness in your eyes. It bleeds right off the screen and into my heart. I wish I could help to make you feel better. I look forward to seeing a photo of you when your eyes are blazing with happiness. It'll happen!!

Take care,

Charlotte

Sunshine!!

You haven't checked in today! I hope everything is okay! Let us know!!

Thanks!

Hello! I have been out and about doing things. I have been going out & doing acting things. Ordered more pics, worked on my resume & went out with some friends who put me into contact with a couple of casting directors. With the writers strike going to be over soon, CD's will start casting again. Good for me.

Have not heard a peep from WS. But I have kept myself busy & worked on me. Even got my eyebrows redone and bought some new shirts. Nothing in my closet fits and I think I've lost even more weight. Which is a good thing.

We'll see if what happens this next week.

Good for you LA!!! I'm glad that you're keeping busy.

Semper Fi,

RIF

You know, something is disturbing me about this. When reading how you are not contacting him and only talking about business when he does contact you....that sounds like Plan B to me. You haven't even been able to try a Plan A because he is not physically with you. I know I was one of those who said let him contact you, but it has gone on a long time now, and it could be getting to be too long.

Clearly you think he does not want contact, but I don't how you can do an effective Plan A and meet his emotional needs without it in some form. Rather no contact is enabling him to distance himself from you. (Not that I am advocating you to be 'in his face' or confrontational about the separation). So, if you want to try to win your husband back in some way you are going to have to sit down and try to work out his emotional needs, and then work out how to meet them from a distance. I know this is hard, because I had to do it.

So what did he like about you? What did he see as positives about the relationship. You might have to think back a lot of years to get some clues here. Did he enjoy your admiration? Is attractiveness an important factor? Is your independence or depepndence on him key? Was financial need a factor? Did he relish your sense of humour? Were recreational needs important to him? Look up the articles about emotional needs on this site and try to determine what he loved about you in the first place.

Then, write him an email, and attempt to meet some of those emotional needs that way. It is NOT a LB to tell the spouse how much your marriage means to you and that you want to keep being married to him. It IS a LB if you beg him. Stating the facts about how you loved his company, his sense of humour, his warmth, all the great stuff you love about the guy. Bring up great memories you both shared. Tell him how proud of him you were when...

Currently he might think, because there has been NO communication from you, that you don't care. OR at the very least, it will be giving him justification for not contacting you. What I am sensing here is, that this marriage could well die a quiet death because neither of you are doing anything much to recover it.

Now, a word of caution. This email may not change a thing. He might not reply. He might get angry or defensive. It might bring things to a head. But right now, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain by gently reminding him why he married you in the first place.

If you DO decide to do this, post the email here first so we can see what you intend on sending. The reason I suggest this is because when you are right in the thick of it, you might not see potential LB's which will stand out clearly for him.

Give it some thought, okay?

Nina,

It's interesting you say send him emails... I counseled with Jennifer and she pretty much said the same thing. I'm supposed to send her a letter every 2 or 3 days. A letter with HEART and PASSION.

Since I'm separated that's really the only way I can try and meet her needs. The funny thing is we met on the internet... we chatted, emailed and talked on the phone for a whole month before we met in person. I'm sure conversation is one of her EN's.

Hi Amazin,

Well it was one of the things I did when my X and I were separated and in different countries. I would write to him regularly. I was also pleasant, funny, informative, loving and as relaxed as I could be when he called while in Plan A. I always asked how he was doing, shared the news of the kids, tried to sound like I was strong and handling things, inquired abut his work and recreational pursuits (no not the OW). It was hard. But at least I gave it a shot.

The reason I had stopped communicating with him is because it was a one way communication and it hurt me so bad. I would have major panic/anxiety attacks when he would not return phone calls or emails. So my therapist suggested I let him contact me and then keep the conversation very light.

But, our 17th anniversary is on the 14th. I have started writing an email to him. I will post it here first.

LA, this is painful, no doubt about it. I am sorry you are feeling so vulnerable. But you want to try everything you can to save your marriage, right? Painful times now may be just a blip later if it helps you save your marriage. And for me, no matter how it ended, I wanted to know I had fought the good fight. I still think I did my best. And that helped me a lot in my recovery. and I learned a lot too.

When I was here long ago and feared rejection, people would bolster me up to have the courage to go ahead and get through the next phase of the plan. And when I did face the pain, after he did not reply, or replied coldly, the people here were there catch me before I fell too far. So now I am extending a little bit of that to you, and others are sure to join in.

I think your anniversary is a perfect time to send the letter because the day holds precious memories for both of you. Please do your homework though, and really try to work out his emotional needs. They may not be what you think they are, once you sit down and really mull it over. Then try to address them in the letter. If you have trouble doing that, how about listing his needs here, and maybe some of us can join in to help you find a way to do it?

Ok, I'm writing out long hand on a notepad the email. I think better that way. Weird I know. But I'm working on the letter.

OK, here is the email. I have not sent it yet. This is what I wrote. Amazin what do you think?


Dear Spouse,

As you are aware, Thursday is our 17th wedding anniversary. While I don’t expect a big present or the usual things or a reply to this e-mail I want you to know exactly how I feel.

I miss you constantly. Everyday I wake up and you are the first person I think of and the last thing I think of at night. I want to be by your side. It’s where I belong. I do not want to miss your retirement ceremony. I really want to be there. It means a lot to me to see you reach this goal. I was so proud of you at your promotion ceremony and you were so handsome in your uniform. It’s why I took so many pictures of you. It took me 2 months to find the right dress for that occasion because I wanted so badly to look nice for you.

You know what I miss? I miss those little day trips we used to take on your days off. When we would drive to Glacier or the trip we took to Ft. Benton. Those are some of the happiest times I ever had. I loved our trip to Yellowstone and our first trip to Arizona. I was so happy just to have you all to myself. Even when you came to Los Angeles and we would just drive around sight seeing made me happy because I was with you. I so badly want to be able to take those trips again with you. I craved your undivided attention. I just wanted to be next to you.

Did you know that I have conversations with you when you’re not here? I think of all the little funny things we used to laugh about and I repeat them. Like when we talk about a movie we’ve never ever seen before and then explain it to each other. It makes me laugh and I miss you all the more. Or how we always said our next cat was gonna be normal and not weird like the ones we have.

Your retirement weighs heavily on my mind everyday. That ceremony is what get’s me out of bed in the morning and to the gym. I want to look good for you and have you be proud to say I am your wife. When you go to the police academy I want to be there by your side to help you succeed and become the great police officer that I know you will be.

I feel like I have changed so much. I am a softer, more understanding person. I want you to see the new me and get to know the new me. I know you won’t be disappointed.

Please keep in contact with me. Sending you e-mails and leaving voicemail messages that are not returned hurts me more than I can say.

I love you with all my heart. I want to stay your wife and have many more years together.

Your wife,

LA,

Well I am not Amazin, but I think you probably also meant me since I recommended the letter in the first place <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />.

First of all please don't send the letter yet.

I can see from the letter that you think one of your husband's emotional needs is admiration. And another is humour, and yet another recreational (the drives). Good start. You have identified three important things to address.

But please forgive me if I offend you by saying that I think the letter as it stands is too much about 'you' and your needs. I tell you this because you want this letter to be as Plan A as it can be, but if it is telling him things in too much of a needy way, it is likely to turn him off. The phrases "I miss you constantly" "have you all to myself" "I craved your undivided attention" and "Sending you e-mails and leaving voicemail messages that are not returned hurts me more than I can say" are likely to do that.

I know this is a difficult letter to write, and I remember getting upset when people here would counsel me on how to word my own letter, so I do feel for you right now. But believe me when I say it will be worth revising.

So how to go about it?

Well I will have to get back to you on it, because I am about to get busy. I tried writing some stuff here for you and it was getting garbled. But if you can wait, I will post something in a few hours, okay?

Once again, no intention of offending you. You want this to be a great Plan A letter and we are here to help.

Nina

No offense taken. Just let me know what to take out & what to add. I'm all in.

Hi LA,
This is my first post to you and I don't know your entire sitch. I'm also not in any position of authority or experience here, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

From what I've read so far, you've been at this for awhile and it doesn't seem like it's working, does it?

From what I've learned, a good relationship is based on mutual respect. You're marriage would not work unless he respects you as much as you respect him. It seems here that you are pouring your heart out and he's not responding to it. Maybe you can try a different approach?

If you see my thread, I've been receiving some good advice from pom, lala and tmts. I've also been reading a book called Love Must be Tough by dr. james dobson. It has helped me a lot because I personally have never felt that plan A was working for me.


I know this came from your heart and this what you feel and want your WH to feel, but he doesn't right now. You've been pouring your heart to him and he's ignoring it.

The story that Lala (aka Resonance) wrote on my thread is perfect. The story of the girlfriend and boyfriend who broke up and the girl begged and pleaded, but all he did was look down on her. Then she stopped calling him and and started living her life and all of a sudden he wanted to get back together her.

This is what I think you should do. Stop writing him letters, especially ones that dwell on the past and how much you miss him. Start living your life and show him that you can be happy with or whithout him (because you can). If he wants to come back it's his choice. No one appreciates a door prize, but they appreciate the ones they have to work for.

Just my humble opinion.

Best wishes to you,
DM

and sorry, I didn't mean to butt in. Again I don't know your whole sitch. If this is your first plan A letter to him, it's probably a good idea. I just wasn't sure if you've been doing this all along and not getting responses. I'm going through a lot of the same things that you are and I've been writing my WW letters.

When I found out about my WWs A on dday, i pushed her away and she kept coming back. When she started to change her mind, I broke down and begged...thats when she started pulling away harder. That's the pattern im starting to see. I've been calling, emailing and texting her ever since and it keeps pushing her further away. I just stopped doing that and now she's trying to contact me and it feels a lot better. It may take awhile for your WH to respond, but I think he will when he notices the change. JMHO.

btw.. I'm in OC and was born in culver city, so i think that makes us neighbors.

Drowning Man...This e-mail would be the first contact I've had with him since January 4th. He would not respond to any of my communication, so my therapist and the folks here on the board suggested that I just not contact him. Make myself better, stronger and healthy (I've had 2 breakdowns and hospitalizations) and let him wonder what I am up to. This e-mail would be the first contact in over a month. I am now stronger, healthier and in a better mental state now that I can handle what ever happens.

Yep...we are nearly neighbors. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

DrowningMan and anyone else, please jump in and help, the more the better. I encourage comments to my revision of LA’s letter.

LA, Sorry this took longer than I thought. I have cut and pasted your email and added comments, but I am afraid it might be hard to determine my comments from yours as I cannot for the life of me work out how to do bold writing on this site any more, but I will do my best.


“Dear Spouse,

As you are aware, Thursday is our 17th wedding anniversary. While I don’t expect a big present or the usual things or a reply to this e-mail I want you to know exactly how I feel.”


TRY THIS:

"As you are aware, Thursday is our 17th wedding anniversary. I remember our wedding day with such clarity, you waiting for me at the end of the aisle, so handsome in your wedding suit.….”(more admiring phrases such as this). Keep the first couple of paragraphs about the wedding, and honeymoon if you had one. Select the best and most meaningful memories to you both. You could probably reminisce for a couple of paragraphs, at least.


”I miss you constantly.”


DELETE.

Forget the word 'miss'. Instead of "I miss..." try "I loved it when..." or "I so enjoyed how we used to..." or even just "Remember when...." Using the word miss might be construed as a tactic to make him feel guilt for making you feel bad. WS's don't like to be made feel guilt; they will turn it on you. You are trying to get him to recall the good in your marriage, not make him feel guilty for taking that away. It is a subtle point.)


“Everyday I wake up and you are the first person I think of and the last thing I think of at night. I want to be by your side for you.”


That is good. Delete “for you”. Follow it up with what you loved about him. His arms around you, his way of kissing you good morning, getting you your first cup of tea (or enjoying so much getting his) all those intimate little things married people do in the morning. Spend a good paragraph on this.


“It’s where I belong.”


DELETE


I do not want to miss your retirement ceremony. I really want to be there. It means a lot to me to see you reach this goal.


This focuses on you, rather than him.. Rewritten it could say: It would be a privledge to be at your retirement ceremony, to see you achieving your goals after all of your hard work and determination. These are qualities I see in you that make you the man you are, and have always made me proud to be your wife.


I was so proud of you at your promotion ceremony and you were so handsome in your uniform. It’s why I took so many pictures of you.


Fine


It took me 2 months to find the right dress for that occasion because I wanted so badly to look nice.


Delete. Instead, maybe something like: I was so proud to be standing there watching you be recognised for your achievements. I know how hard you worked to get there, and as your wife I was so full of love and admiration.


You know what I miss? I miss those little day trips we used to take on your days off. When we would drive to Glacier or the trip we took to Ft. Benton. Those are some of the happiest times I ever had. I loved our trip to Yellowstone and our first trip to Arizona.


Again, rephrase anything to do with the word ‘miss’

I was so happy just to have you all to myself.


Delete

Even when you came to Los Angeles and we would just drive around sight seeing made me happy because I was with you. I so badly want to be able to take those trips again with you.


This needs work, It can be construed as begging. Try something more simple like “I would love to take those trips with you again”


I craved your undivided attention. I just wanted to be next to you.


Delete

Did you know that I have conversations with you when you’re not here? I think of all the little funny things we used to laugh about and I repeat them. Like when we talk about a movie we’ve never ever seen before and then explain it to each other. It makes me laugh and I miss you all the more. Or how we always said our next cat was gonna be normal and not weird like the ones we have.


Leave out the first sentence and it is fine.


Your retirement weighs heavily on my mind everyday.


Rephrase. Simply “I have been thinking a lot about your retirement”

That ceremony is what gets me out of bed in the morning and to the gym. I want to look good for you and have you be proud to say I am your wife.


Delete. This is focusing you’re your own need of admiration, not his.


When you go to the police academy I want to be there by your side to help you succeed and become the great police officer that I know you will be.


Delete “help you to succeed”. He can do it without you, and he knows this, and probably wants you to acknowledge this too. Rephrase: ….I want to be there by your side, watching you achieve your life’s dream, supporting you as your loving wife.” This has nearly the same meaning, but it doesn’t seem like you are saying he can’t do it without you.

I feel like I have changed so much. I am a softer, more understanding person. I want you to see the new me and get to know the new me. I know you won’t be disappointed.


Rephrase: Our separation has caused me to reflect on my personal traits, and how they may have affected our life together. I am learning to become a better, more supportive and loving wife for you. I am learning to become a more understanding person, one who will always be there for you. I am looking forward to sharing this with you.


Please keep in contact with me. Sending you e-mails and leaving voicemail messages that are not returned hurts me more than I can say.



Delete. It will be seen as an attempt to make him feel guilty.


I love you with all my heart. I want to stay your wife and have many more years together.


Add: We have so many wonderful memories and a beautiful history. I believe with all my heart that we can work through our difficulties as man and wife and have a more wonderful marriage than ever.


Your wife,


Perhaps more endearing, your loving wife, your adoring wife, etc…


Nina

OK...here are my revisions.

Dear Spouse,

As you are aware, Thursday is our 17th wedding anniversary. I remember our wedding day with such clarity. I was very nervous and you were as calm as a cucumber. You were very sure of yourself and were ready to just forge ahead and get things done. My hands wouldn’t stop shaking. I think you remember that my hand was so sweaty you could barely get the ring on my finger. I was so scared that you were going to change your mind. I felt like the luckiest girl in the world. Then we went on to Spokane and you got to meet my flaky sister & her family. At least we had our own hotel room and privacy so we could be together. It was best night of my life. Remember we had prime rib at the restaurant and then we were so full we went straight to bed. I was too excited to sleep. I laid there a long time thinking of you and the life we were going to have together.

Everyday I wake up and you are the first person I think of and the last thing I think of at night. Remember how nice and warm the bed was with our flannel sheets? Remember how I would drape my leg over yours? That’s how I could keep touching you in my sleep. So I would know you are there.

I have been thinking a lot about your retirement. It would be a privilege to be at your retirement ceremony, to see you achieving your goals after all of your hard work and determination. These are qualities I see in you that make you the man you are, and have always made me proud to be your wife. I was so proud of you at your promotion ceremony and you were so handsome in your uniform. It’s why I took so many pictures of you. I was so proud to be standing there watching you be recognized for your achievements. I know how hard you worked to get there, and as your wife I was so full of love and admiration.

Remember those little day trips we used to take on your days off? When we would drive to Glacier or the trip we took to Ft. Benton? Those are some of the happiest times I ever had. I loved our trip to Yellowstone and our first trip to Arizona. Even when you came to Los Angeles and we would just drive around sight seeing and when we drove to San Diego to see Jason made me happy because I was with you. I would love to be able to take those trips again with you. The Aquarium, the Getty Museum, Disneyland…all of those places were so much fun because I was with you.

I think of all the little funny things we used to laugh about and I repeat them. Like when we talk about a movie we’ve never ever seen before (Twister, Forrest Gump, The Hunt for Red October) and then explain it to each other. It makes me laugh and I miss you all the more. Or how we always said our next cat was going to be normal and not weird like the ones we have. I’m still hoping that happens one day. We deserve one normal cat!

When you go to the police academy I want to be there by your side, watching you achieve your life’s dream, supporting you as your loving wife.

Our separation has caused me to reflect on my personal traits, and how they may have affected our life together. I am learning to become a better, more supportive and loving wife for you. I am learning to become a more understanding person, one who will always be there for you. I am looking forward to sharing this with you. We have so many wonderful memories and a beautiful history. I believe with all my heart that we can work through our difficulties as man and wife and have a more wonderful marriage than ever.

I love you with all my heart. I want to stay your wife and have many more years together.

Your loving wife,

Wow, what an improvement! (Clapping). I noticed you slipped a little "I miss you" in there, but I think it's okay to leave just the one.

Now...it occurs to me he might be thinking "Why is she writing me about all this stuff?" So a bit of an introductory paragraph needs added, to start the letter off. Maybe cut this sentence out (he knows the date of your anniversary)

"As you are aware, Thursday is our 17th wedding anniversary."

and instead try something like:

"As our anniversary approaches, so many memories of our time together fill my heart, reminding me of how I love you so. I want to share some of them with you."

What do you think?

Nina

OK, I changed it.


Dear Spouse,

As our anniversary approaches, so many memories of our time together fill my heart, reminding me of how I love you so. I want to share some of them with you. I remember our wedding day with such clarity. I was very nervous and you were as calm as a cucumber. You were very sure of yourself and were ready to just forge ahead and get things done. My hands wouldn’t stop shaking. I think you remember that my hand was so sweaty you could barely get the ring on my finger. I was so scared that you were going to change your mind. I felt like the luckiest girl in the world. Then we went on to Spokane and you got to meet my flaky sister & her family. At least we had our own hotel room and privacy so we could be together. It was best night of my life. Remember we had prime rib at the restaurant and then we were so full we went straight to bed. I was too excited to sleep. I laid there a long time thinking of you and the life we were going to have together.

Everyday I wake up and you are the first person I think of and the last thing I think of at night. Remember how nice and warm the bed was with our flannel sheets? Remember how I would drape my leg over yours? That’s how I could keep touching you in my sleep. So I would know you are there.

I have been thinking a lot about your retirement. It would be a privilege to be at your retirement ceremony, to see you achieving your goals after all of your hard work and determination. These are qualities I see in you that make you the man you are, and have always made me proud to be your wife. I was so proud of you at your promotion ceremony and you were so handsome in your uniform. It’s why I took so many pictures of you. I was so proud to be standing there watching you be recognized for your achievements. I know how hard you worked to get there, and as your wife I was so full of love and admiration.

Remember those little day trips we used to take on your days off? When we would drive to Glacier or the trip we took to Ft. Benton? Those are some of the happiest times I ever had. I loved our trip to Yellowstone and our first trip to Arizona. Even when you came to Los Angeles and we would just drive around sight seeing and when we drove to San Diego to see Jason made me happy because I was with you. I would love to be able to take those trips again with you. The Aquarium, the Getty Museum, Disneyland…all of those places were so much fun because I was with you.

I think of all the little funny things we used to laugh about and I repeat them. Like when we talk about a movie we’ve never ever seen before (Twister, Forrest Gump, The Hunt for Red October) and then explain it to each other. It makes me laugh and I miss you all the more. Or how we always said our next cat was going to be normal and not weird like the ones we have. I’m still hoping that happens one day. We deserve one normal cat!

When you go to the police academy I want to be there by your side, watching you achieve your life’s dream, supporting you as your loving wife.

Our separation has caused me to reflect on my personal traits, and how they may have affected our life together. I am learning to become a better, more supportive and loving wife for you. I am learning to become a more understanding person, one who will always be there for you. I am looking forward to sharing this with you. We have so many wonderful memories and a beautiful history. I believe with all my heart that we can work through our difficulties as man and wife and have a more wonderful marriage than ever.

I love you with all my heart. I want to stay your wife and have many more years together.

Your loving wife,

Looking good! Now....I think you might want to wait for a day or two before you send it off, and see if some other MB'ers check out the letter and offer any additions/deletions/amendments.

I see you got to spell 'privilege' properly too....that one stumps me every time!

Nina

I wanted to send it tomorrow afternoon. Our anniversary is the 14th.

I'll wait til tomorrow afternoon.

LA,

When I read the first draft of your letter, I felt that it would come across as too needy and desperate to a WS, but I didn't want to comment because I'm no expert at this area.

I very much agree with the suggestions that Nina made and I think the last version you have is very good.

Thanks BHHFSGUY. I am going to send it. I hope he takes the time to read the entire e-mail.

Thank you everyone who helped. I appreciate it.

Hey neighbor,

The letter looks great with the changes. Sorry, I'm no expert either, so I don't have any suggestions to offer. I agree with Nina and BHHFS though. The less needy it sounds the better.

Hope you're doing well today.
DM

OK, I cut & pasted the letter into an email. And I sent it. To all 3 of his emails! We'll see what happens.

I haven't decided what I'm going to do tomorrow. I have a hair appt & that's it. I need to fill up my day. I may have to go see back to back movies.

My goal is to make it through the day with no panic/anxiety attacks, crying, shaking or heart palpitations.

"My goal is to make it through the day with no panic/anxiety attacks, crying, shaking or heart palpitations."

Have you tried anti-D's? They work well for panic attacks.

LA I thought your revised letter was most excellent! Great job. I had no comments to improve it, but I just wanted to let you know. And I'll be thinking of you tomorrow.

Hang in there.

Si, Si, Senorita!! I am the Rx Queen! I take Zoloft and Ativan. Saroquel to sleep. I am locked & loaded for tomorrow. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Is it too late to suggest that perhaps "Dear Spouse" is a little too impersonal? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Tee hee. Sorry. Just thought I'd try to lighten the mood.

Hang in there. Days like these are long, I know.

Jodie

Yeah, I changed the Dear Spouse to his name.


I tried really hard to get through today without tears, but they keep squeezing out every once in awhile.

I want to call OW and tell her what today is. I'm torn.

Don't call.

It sounds like things are going relatively well, if the tears are only squeezing out every once in a while.

Valentines Day plus your anniversary is a big trigger.

Too late. I called. Told her what today was/is. Told her if she were a respectable woman she wouldn't be messing with a married man. That I loved my husband very much. I don't know if it will do any good.

Had a mini meltdown kindof and I called a friend & talked for an hour. I feel a bit better now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA,
how did OW respond to your call??

She didn't answer. I left a message on her voicemail. But I hope it has some kind of effect. But I dunno. *shrugs* It made me feel a bit better though.

LA,
did you get any response from your WS??
bb

Not from the email I sent. But he did send me an email that he got the credit card mess fixed. But nothing in response to the email I sent that everybody here helped me with.

did he send you that response "yesterday"???

LA,

whatever you have done.......it doesn't seem to be having any affect. *I'm feeling with you*

It seems to me as if he has built a new life..........and due to the fact that you live so far away, it's easy for him.......

How long has it been since you've had no contact with him?? I don't exactly how long but it has been very long........did you ever set yourself a time limit and did you think what youa going to do............if he doesn't respond???

You've made improvements on yourself during this time and you've worked on yourself............no one can take that from you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I really hope that you haven't just made these changes with the hope that "he will change".............it's important to work on yourself and your wellbeing for "YOU"!!

Reading your thread and following it the whole time..........gets me thinking............

Is it possible for you to get on the plane and have an "eye to eye" talk with your WS???

No fighting, no arguements............but to really get the situation cleared........

I've been here for so long and I've been married for quit some time.........(28years) and even if it might work for some people to live a long-distant marriage..........it's usually almost impossible. An intact relationship might be able to work it out but a troubled relationship........I really don't know.

My marriage almost fell apart when we stopped sharing time with one another..........even though we were living in the same house.......sleeping in the same bed...........and eating at the same table.

I personally think it's now time for you to consider a new plan............

I hope I am not off-track..............I'm just thinking. I have a feeling that your WS's Emotional Needs are being fullfilled FULLBLAST from this OW........


hugs
bb

LA,

FWIW, I strongly agree that your situation is worse and has a lower probably of resulting in a recovered marriage simply because even in a firm plan B, your WH has gotten used to not having you a regular part of his life.

Married people were never meant to maintain separate households and doing so always takes a toll of a marriage. Being in the military, I've seen it over and over, and in those situations, the couples really had no choice.

I am so sorry, but it really does sound like your husband doesn't even really consider you to be his wife anymore.

That does not mean that you are wasting your time working on yourself, just that the improvements may not lead to a recovered marriage.

(((((LA))))))

Best,

Who

WEll, I finally talked to WS. He told me to stop calling OW. That our marriage was over before he met OW. He wanted to know if I'd signed the D papers & sent them back. I finally told him that I sent them to my lawyer. He became very agitated about me having a lawyer. I told him I needed to protect myself and that I didn't know what to do.

Tonight is the first time that I actually have to admit that my marriage is probably done.

WS has a way of making me feel worthless and unworthy.

I had a major meltdown panic attack and had to call a friend. I feel like I'm right back at the beginning.

He told me that one of the reasons he was retiring was because I humiliated him at work by calling the wing commander and asking for help. I told him that he did that to himself by not calling me back when I asked him to.

I'm so upset right now, that I am still shaking, crying and my chest still hurts.

I'm so sorry, Sunshine. I was afraid this might happen. I was really hoping it wouldn't, though.

You deserve SO much better!!!!

Hang in there!! It WILL get better!! It WILL. I never believed it would but I was wrong. I'm sorry I wished I was dead so the pain would go away. That was wrong, too.

You just keep your chin up, square your shoulders, take deep breaths and be proud you are the beautiful woman you are.

Inside and out.

(((((((Sunshine)))))))

Charlotte, that's what my friends say & what my therapist just said. She called me back so I could talk to her for abit. For so long I held out that there was some kind of chance for us.

I'm worried that he is really mad about the fact I have a lawyer.

He's trying to twist everything so it's all my fault.

(((((LA))))))))))))

That's what WS's do. They rewrite history. So they can have their affairs and tell the world "Well I was in such a bad marriage with such an awful spouse....she/he MADE me do it." WRONG! They always choose to have affairs themselves, and nothing the BS did made it happen. Because they cannot live with themselves and their decisions if they continue to think you are not to blame, they pretend you are so much worse than you really are. Sheesh, to them it has to be someone's fault, and no WS is going to blame themselves. And do not for a minute believe OW appeared only after he left. People rarely leave others without a back-up plan.

So he didn't mention the letter? And yet no word until you sent the letter and called OW? Hmmm...very interesting if you ask me. The anger from him is very telling. What prompted him to action? Why is he angry at you? No, it isn't because you rang the OW. It is because you caused a blip in his plan, that's why!

WS's always get upset when their happy little trysts in LALA Land are upset because a bolt of reality shoots out from the BS. That bolt of reality was your call to OW, LA. Think....how do you think that went down? I bet it wasn't pretty....

So now it is up to you to see if you want to keep fighting. It is a hard, hard call and nobody is going to blame you if you do decide to call it quits. It is all up to you.

Please read read read here. Many people have been right where you are tonight. Reading the experiences of others can help you immeasurably.

And finally, try to look after yourself. Eat, rest, keep busy. You are going to need all your energy no matter what you decide.

Nina

(((((Sunshine Girl))))), why on earth wouldn't you consult a lawyer? What does he expect - for you to sit back and let him walk all over you. It doesn't matter if he's mad or not - you need to protect yourself.

Take care. TT

I know. This just proves to me how messed up in the head he is. He would think that I would just roll over. And when I told him I needed to protect myself he go very agitated because he wanted to know why. I told him because there are certain things I deserve and I need to have the legal help to achieve that. I finally told him I wasn't going to talk to him about the divorce papers or my attorney anymore.

Don't let him get to you. Yeah, he's still fogged out. He's just annoyed because you aren't acquiescing to his will. Take care of yourself. Focus on you. He'll probably be annoyed with you - no matter what you do - for a long time. I know ws was. He seemed to be upset because I breathed. I figured that was his problem and continued to do what I needed to do to take care of me.

LA,
I'm so sorry you feel it's over...

I'd wait on signing any divorce papers.

I'm just curious and I'm not trying to say screw him over as much as possible...but have you asked for anything from him in regards to the divorce? 1/2 of the marital assets, part of his pension, alimony, spousal support...etc?

The reason I'm asking is because he has put how many years into the military? I find it hard to believe he's willing to give up half his pension at the drop of a hat... It could be that he knows exactly what he's doing by asking you to sign the papers... or... he’s doesn’t know and is oblivious to what he could loose financially… that he could loose half of everything. Or… He just doesn’t care…Maybe if you put some legal pressure on him and ask for the world he’ll re-think his position…

Ask for everything you can get… then stall… If he thinks he’s going to have to pay you half of $$$ for the rest of his life … he may start doubting his actions… I know you’ve been apart for a while but by stalling this will give you some extra time to work a plan and time for the affair to die…

Just a suggestion.

I've been stalling. And I don't think he really has a clue what I could do to him financially. I think he's so far into his little happy fog he is clueless. As my friend Maria said today, "Doesn't he know by now not to make you mad?!"

So we'll see what happens this week. I'm just gonna take it easy.

The atty called me this morning & said he filed my response. He said now we wait. We wait to see what WS does. Atty told me not to call OW anymore. LOL.... Said he doesn't want it to turn into a legal issue.

So that's where it stands right now. I'm just feeling empty and sad about the whole thing.

Since there's already a divorce filed... I'd ask for everything you could get your hands on... then stall

SCARE THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS OUT OF HIM... Make him think twice about wanting a divorce...

JMHO...
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I'm stalling. And once I put out there exactly what I want, he's gonna freak.

I really think there should be court ordered pet support in this country.

Well... He needs to "FREAK"... He needs a wake-up call and asking for the moon and the stars will ring his bell a little.

That's funny. I know from the sound of his voice that he was shocked that I had the fore thought to hire an atty. The next few days should be interesting.

I think he knows exactly what he's doing... I’ll bet he thinks you’re just a dumb wife who don’t know sh*t. (why is it the WS thinks they're so much smarter when its obvious they're not?) He was probably hoping that you would roll over and die without a fight. That’s why he’s pissed you went to an attorney.

How long has he been in the military? What's his rank again? If he’s been in 17 years I guarantee you HE KNOWS that you can get half his retirement. And…half of any other marital assets…If you pushed it he would also have to pay alimony…(If he makes more than you)

You sound GREAT, Sunshine!!! So much stronger!!! You go, Girl!!

He's been in 20 yrs. That's why he's retiring. He is a Tech Sgt in the USAF. I will get half of his retirement and I am also asking for spousal maintenance. He does make more money than I do. I deserve that spousal maintenance. I feel I shouldn't have to live at a lesser lifestyle than I am currently accustomed to.

I didn't and don't want it to get ugly, but I'm not sure because he's so far in the fog and unpredictable.

Thank you Charlotte. I am trying. But even after I talked to my atty this morning I had a mini meltdown. But tomorrow is therapy lady day & I'm gonna talk to her about all this.

Is he an E-6? Is there a high year tenure? I.E.Does he have to retire at 20 or can he keep going? Once he retires he may not be making more money than you... or he could be making a whole lot more money than you depending on his occupation...

And if she's a suger mama... he'll probably do nothing after he retires and have her support him so he can say he's dirt poor... and that you should be paying him alamony...

OW might go along with that for a while... but not forever... If it comes to that it'll be a long distance run to see who gives up first... you or OW... I'd bet that when he's not working anymore she'll get sick of him real quick... the fantasy will die...Not to mention she's probably in love with the uniform and not him... When he stops wearing it she'll loose interest...

Yeah, E6. He could stay in if he wanted to. He will be attending police academy after he retires. He'll be making more money than me.

I hate her. I really do.

Just keep thinking...

I'm gonna ring his bell and give him a wake-up call... LOL....

If he's completly in a fantasy fog you may need the liberty bell....LOL...

BBBBBOOOOONNNNGGG...

It's gonna be alright LA... have a laugh once in a while it'll make you feel better...

If you want to have a good chuckle tonight go look at Serinitysoon's thread from tonight...Ya gotta read from page 26 on...

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...art=26&vc=1

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

OK, I'll check it out.

I just realized I haven't eaten anything all day. I think I'll eat a granola bar. Those stay down.

Today I decided to email WS. But!! I only emailed him status on each one of our furry children. I told him a paragraph about each cat. What they've been doing, their health, any cute or funny things they have done lately. No mention about me, him, the D or anything else. I'm hoping he will respond, but I'm not gonna hold my breath.

LA, Just wanted to make sure you knew any percentage of disabliity he receives can not be included in the 50 percent you will receive.

An example: E6 retired at 20 will receive approx 1500 monthly. If he ends up 30% disabled (It doesn't take much to qualify for that amount). will mean approx $1050.00 from the AF, and $450.00 from the VA.

The amount coming from the VA is his, untouched. Unless something additional is negotiated in the D settlement.

So your 50% equates to $525.00 monthly.

The amounts I used are fairly accurate. The disability percentage can vary drastically. I used 30% off my own disablity. My disability was result of sports related knee injuries, and slight hearing loss.

-JKT

Hopefully it doesn't come to that. It makes me light headed and weak just to think about this stuff.

Hopefully it won't... but you need to be educated...

Like I said...BBBBOOONNNGGG....LOL...

Has he got the response from your lawyer yet? Don't be surprized if he hits the roof... starts all sorts of fog babble...I'd expect it...

My atty just filed the response on 1/15. So he won't receive it yet. But I'm sure he's gonna have something to say about it. My atty just said to not talk about that stuff with him but talking about regular stuff was ok. My atty said that for right now, we sit & wait. And he told me to be calm, take care of myself and remember to eat. He's a good atty with 30+ yrs of experience and he comes highly recommended.

Sorry LA, I didn't want to be negative.

As Amazin sayed, just wanted you to be informed.

Speak to your atty about this. Again not to be negative "but" negotiation of a specific amout would be safer than a percentage.

-JKT

Well $525 will pay my car pmt and ins. But I feel I still deserve spousal support and feel he should pay my rent.

I would just prefer to have him call me and say he wants to work on our marriage.

I know LA, and I'm pulling for ya...

I was in a simular timeline. I was told by my FWW, she wanted a D 4 months prior to my retirement date.

Talk about life as you know it turned upside-down stress.

Most importantly... Stay healthy.

-JKT

I disagree... If you negotiate a dollar amount... it will never change... However.. if you negotiate a percentage the dolar amount you get will always increase every year...

50% of $1500.00 is $750.00 ... in ten years his retirement will be...lets say $2000.00 ....50% of $2000 is.... $1000

See what I mean...

LA,

I'm new to the forum but I've read every post in this thread. You simply amaze me with your strength and resilience considering what you been going through.

Although there are no guarantees where relationships are concerned, I think time is on your side.

Amazin, If "retirement pay" growth was even close to the numbers you've mentioned above... You would be completely correct.

It just a matter of sure thing -vs- gambling. There is no wrong answer, just options.

Thank you. I hope time is what he needs.

The average COLA (Cost of Living Adjustment) over the past 20 years has been about 3.4% (I think) a year...

I just pulled those dollar amounts out of my butt to make my point...

Think of it this way... after you retire you still get an annual pay raise... There's a retiremnt calculator on stay navy.com....If I retired today.... my retirment pay is still going to go up every year... how much more you're retirment pay is going go up between now and 20 years from now will amaize you ...

I think this is stuff my atty is going to find out during "discovery". That's what he called it. I myself do not know.

I just keep praying that it doesn't come to that.

I'm praying for you LA.

Keep yer chin up... Hopefully he'll make it through the fog.

Amazin, I retired from the Navy 5 years ago.

LA, have you eat'n today ; )

-JKT

Yes, I have eat'n today. I ate a granola bar & had a bottle of water. I've been up off and on since 4 a.m. I'm up for the day now. Target finally got my Rx's worked out with Triwest and I can go pick them up. I am also going to pick up my headshots with the resumes copied on the back.

I enjoyed a fun dinner last night with my wonderful friend who saved my life twice. We just sat there & talked. It was relaxing.

I am debating on if I should call him today. I need to talk to him about our taxes. I am a bit torn. I don't know if I want to talk to him or maybe email. I don't want to get into an argument or anything. I'm sure he's still annoyed that I hired myself an atty to protect myself.

LASG:

What are you going to discuss with him about the taxes?

Joint?
Filing Seperatly?

Buy turbotax and put your info in it.

Then put his info (estimates) and see where you stand.

Since there are no kids and possibly no mortgage, then there probably is no major difference to you for filing seperatly or joint with him.

And then you can decide, from a position of strength, WHAT you want to DO. Then discuss THAT with him.

Otherwise, there is no reason to bring it up.

If he's pissed becasue you hiredand attorny, then he is REALLY going to loose control if you file a seperate tax return.

But it's his choice. He found someone new....

LG

When you are not sure of how he will react, you should email. Then you won't get into screaming matches.

He is annoyed at you for seeing a lwayer because he currently thinks you're stupid. Don't take it personally, it goes with the whole affair thing.

Show him you're not, but get the business done via email. If he calls and starts berating you, calmly state that you will be discussing these things via email from now on and gently hang up

Nina

Thanks Nina. That's what I was thinking. He doesn't yell or scream though. He just has this "tone" to his voice that I know he's really mad & annoyed. I'm just trying to be as pleasant as I possibly can. I'll send him a polite email tonight and ask him to please respond.

I sent an email. It's so much easier.

Some days are good & some are ehh..well today is an ehh...day. Even working out at the gym I can't shake this downer feeling today. It's not a panic attack, it's just an I don't care about anything attack. I just want to lay here on the couch & watch Sci-FI and veg out. But i feel I should be doing something. Like I'm wasting time.

Here's what I told snuggles4you today...

I DECLARE TODAY AS A BS PRODUCTIVITY DAY!

Do something productive to get your mind off the A.

I'm painting...

N2F is cleaning her basement...

You can do something too... maybe something as simple as getting all your laundry done folded and put away... or Cleaning your house... Something that needs done that you've been puting off... It will make you feel a lot better. I know I always do.

Now go be productive... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I already did all the laundry, cleaned the house, hauled out the trash, changed the litter boxes, fed kitties and cleaned the bathroom. Now I'm just here on the couch watching Stargate. A movie I've seen dozens of times.

I even made my bed...

Well is there anything that needs to get done that you've been putting off?

If not...then go do something nice for yourself... New clothes... Go out to a movie... Nice dinner... pedicure manicure... facial... Spa... Professional Massage... beauty salon...

Maybe just a nice hot relaxing bath...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I took a nap instead. Just a short one. It made me feel better & I'm not as sad as I was earlier.

I was thinking today that I hate how WS has twisted our marriage into something horrible and bad. How he says things were so terrible. When I know they weren't. Just how he skews all of the things about us to make it sound so terrible. That makes me hurt. My heart aches and feels like there is a gigantic hole in my chest.

I remember so many happy things and it seems that all he remembers are bad. I know it's the fog, but it still makes me feel horrible.

You're right, it is fog talk... And it's all horse sh*t... so stop listening to it. I think a lot of the fog babble is so they can justify their actions in their own minds... And some of it is the "The best defense is a good offence" routine...

I know it hurts... but you're getting stronger and one day soon all his fog babble won't hurt you anymore and you'll see it for just that... fog babble...

Here's a big cyber hug for ya LA <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

(((((LA))))

Keep your chin up girl... Get yourself strong and things will get better.

I hope so. I hope it gets better.

It will LA... It will.

I know it doesn't seem that way sometimes but you will be OK... It helped me a lot when I realized I would be OK either way... I want my wife back and I want our family to be happy and healthy together... But if that doesn't happen I know I'll be OK and so will my kids...

You need to get yourself strong. (Get your mind, body, soul and heart strong) Then you will be able to deal with all the CR*P of the affair better...

Well I know he isn't with her right now. He's home in IL visiting his family. God only knows what they are saying about me to him. As far as I know he didn't take OW with him.

Today I feel like calling him up and tell him he's a stupid fool. But I won't. But I sure feel like it.

Today I guess I am mad and disappointed in him.

I know... but what would that accomplish? That would just be a big Love Buster... Kind of the opposite of what you want to do isn't it?

I would really like to breath some fire at my wife... But I'm not going to for the same reason... That's just moving in the opposite direction that we need to go...

Keep your chin up LA...

Let's focus on something else... Something that will keep our minds off this ugly affair...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I won't call him. But I'm gonna have to call here in a few days. We have things to discuss about taxes and $$$.

But my heart feels like it's been ripped out every time I talk to him. He's very, very fogged.

Anything he says right now will be fog talk... watch his actions not what he says.

My WW got real pissed when she found out I filed seperately. According to her "that's it, She's done" and that I've screwed her over for the last time...and when I get the return I need to get an attorney and file for divorce. bla bla bla

It's just fog talk...

I think when I told him that I sent the D papers to MY ATTY it scared him abit. It told him that I wasn't as weak as I had been back in Oct & Nov and that I just wasn't gonna roll over & play dead. And we talked today(me & therapist) about how he is rewritting our marriage history. How he turns everything into a negative.

He's re-writing history to justify his affair... Just another way to make himself feel better about what he's doing. Fog Fog Fog... don't listen to it.

Good... When you're Atty sends him the response, I hope it askes for the stars and moon...Maybe that will give him a real good wake-up call.

BBBBOOOOOONNNGGG...BBBBOOOOOONNNGGG...BBBBOOOOOONNNGGG...

That might just make him think about how much this divorce is going to cost him...

Well we don't really have stars and moon to ask for, but I did ask for spousal support and the whole 1/2 his retirement thing and stated that I did not feel that the marriage was irretrievable broken and asked for court ordered marriage counseling. Which I'm sure is gonna really make him mad. And I think he was under the impression that this D stuff was going to be done really fast. My atty advised me minimum of 6 mos.

OH yeah...I forgot the part where he pays all of MY LEGAL FEES too! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

COBRA laws can possibly get you medical insurance for up to 3 years!

On a positive note today. I have lost 4 more lbs. Which makes me feel good. Got a great voicemail message from a friend who is sending me some kind of present. She wouldn't say. Just that it's something to make me feel better.

Still no word from WS. He's still home in IL visiting his family. My ears burn, I can only imagine what they are saying about me.

I lost some weight too... I took the Affair Diet and turned it into a positive... I started working out while I was on the diet. Lost about 18lbs so far. I think the exertion of energy forced my appitite to come back... I'm eating more but still loosing weight. (wow how many people would love to say that?) Just in a healthy way and not as fast.

Hi LA,

((((LA))))

What have you done for yourself today??

Just a word of caution when talking about military pensions...when you talk about the 1/2 of the retirement thing, you need to be sure you understand that you're only entitled to a portion of that half, based on how long you've been married relative to his military service.

Try googling "military retirement divorce" and see what you get.

If you divorce this year and he retires at 20, you will be eligible for approx 42%. Now, if he continues to advance and stays in until 30 years, you'd get roughly 28% (or half of 17/30),

A lawyer can help you out with this...just be forewarned.

Yeah, my attorney was looking into the whole pension thing. He retires at 20 & we've been married 17 yrs. I'm praying that he wakes up soon. I don't want this whole mess.

I got up this morning & went & had a massage. And charged it on his credit card.

I called my voice coach. I booked 3 classes. I miss singing. For a while there I had no voice. But I've been praticing. I think my vocal chords have healed. I think they were damaged because of me throwing up so much.

Today was positive. I got my Jeep Libby washed & cleaned. I looked at shoes but didn't buy any. I ate breakfast & lunch. I called WS too and just let him know what our bank balance was and told him I hoped he was having a fun time with his family. I hope that wasn't the wrong thing to do.

Why did you do that?

Well it's my cc too, but his name is first on it. And I felt a little mean because my body hurt so bad. I pay the bill for it each month. So I guess it's mine too.

Please do not rely soley on your lawyers advice.

Get yourself informed "just in case".

Uniform Services Former Spouses Protection Act

Militarydivorceonline

-JKT

Thank you JKT. I will read through all of it and forward to my atty too.

My friends dragged me out tonight & took me to sushi. I hate sushi, but I ate teriyaki chicken. Tomorrow is envelope stuffing day. I've made my agent/manager lists and I'm printing everything tomorrow & then mailing on Monday.

I'm glad they took me out tonight. We didn't talk about WS at all. We just talked about our jobs or lack of jobs and hair and makeup. It was fun to talk girl talk again.

But WS is back home in AZ now. I wonder if I'll hear from him at all.

Still no word from WS. I don't know if I should send him another email or call him. I got no response from the last email I sent him. But boy oh boy I sure got a response when I called OW and left that message. I just wonder what is going on.

why do you need to talk to him? i can't remember...
if it is about taxes, just file "married filing separate"
send him a one line email letting him know that is what you are doing so that he knows he will have to file the same.

mlhb

I haven't read your entire thread LA, but what plan are you in? I think I remember reading earlier in your thread that you are in Los Angeles and your WH is in Arizona...if his A ended would the two of you continue living apart?

Robertswife: I'm not really in a plan a or b. Maybe a bit of plan b. I usually have a really bad panic/anxiety attack after I talk to him, so I've kinda stopped talking to him for awhile.

Mlhb: I know that's what I should do, but I think we will get a bigger refund if we file together and it gives me a chance to actually talk to him and keep me in his thoughts. Silly I know. But I take what I can get right now.

Had a friend email me that I haven't talked to in months and months. She had just heard what had happened to me. She was as shocked as everybody else was. Couldn't believe that he would do this to me. She gave me her 2 phone numbers and told me to call her at anytime if I have a panic attack. It made me feel good.

This was my day. It started out good. Had that movie director offer me a role in his movie. Things were good. Then I went to Petco.....

Stupid kids.

I'm at Petco in Woodland HIlls just a bit ago. Woodland Hills people keep that in mind. I'm walking out the door of Petco when all ****** breaks loose in the parking lot. Four huge *males of obvious hispanic descent* started trash talking to this skinny *male of obvious hispanic descent* and he just kinda blew them off. He was working at Petco for crying out loud. He had his lunch bag in his hand! As he walks away they come up behind him and jump him. He breaks free and starts to run and they catch him and jump him again. Pummeling him in the head. The kid drops in a heap on the parking lot pavement. He wasn't moving. Enraged Mommma of *obvious hispanic descent* starts screaming at them. Then enraged fiance to mommy also *obvious hispanic descent* starts to chase after the 4 thugs. It's a free for all in the parking lot. People running everywhere. I kinda ducked because I was waiting for gunfire. All the while this Petco kid is in a heap bleeding on the pavement. I grabbed my phone & keys, locked Libby & ran to help.

What a mess. This kid has part of his scalp ripped off, broken jaw, broken nose and huge gashes in his forehead. And he was combative and unresponsive to my questions and I'm up to my elbows in blood. Blood pouring out of this kids mouth, nose, head and he's fighting us, trying to get up. Momma is screaming & crying. He kept saying he couldn't breathe and I told him to start breathing out of his mouth. Slow breaths and even. I told him he had blood in his nose and that's why he couldn't breathe out of his nose. I leaned over to Momma and told her to stop ****** crying and get it together. I told her she was making him worse.

It took forever for the EMT's and police to get there. I held that kids head together for a good 15 min's before they arrived. I could feel his broken jaw squishing around in my hands. I had my middle finger and a towel stuffed into a huge gash on his forehead. I picked bloody clots out of this kids nose so he could breathe. There were people every where but nobody wanted to help. Just me and one other girl from Petco. They just stood there. I finally got eye contact with this kid and told him that he wasn't getting up and he was hurt bad. Then he kept asking over & over what had happened. Which is the sign of brain trauma. I only had 1 rubber glove on to cover my scraped knuckle but the rest of me got bloody. I told his Mom to keep talking to him calmly and he would calm down.

Finally the EMT's and police got there. I was so relieved. I could finally get up off the pavement and turn it over to the professionals.

I gave my card to fiance and angry Momma and told them to call me tonight to let me know how he was. Then I went into the Petco bathroom and scrubbed my arms and hands. Blood all over my clothes. My good pants too. I hope it comes out.

And when I get home, there is an email from WS. "Did you send the tax stuff yet?" That's it. No Hi or how are you...I was a little annoyed.

Yay, Sunshine!!!

You see how STRONG you are? You were in the right place at the right time for a reason.

I am so PROUD of you!! God is showing you how strong you are.

You were strong in that situation just as you will be in dealing with the crap your WS hurls your way.

(((((((((((((Sunshine)))))))))))))))))

Huggin' dat strong, beautiful lady!!!!

Oh Charlotte...it caught up with me around 8:00 pm. I just started to shake & my stomach was flip flopping. Delayed anxiety from it. And I feel like I have a fever. I'm so hot. I just wish they would call & tell me how he is.

Holy cow! That's scary. I can imagine how the adrenalin must have been rushing through you. It probably just wore off around 8 pm and that's why it caught up with you.

Can you call the police dept? Not 911, but the number for the dept that responded? You have a valid reason, you are a witness. You can let them know that and make sure they have your number if needed, and then ask which hospital he was taken to. Or if you have an idea which hospital, you could call them directly.

The family may have too much on their hands right now to remember to call you.

Good for you for responding. You hear of too many people turning away. Like Charlotte said, you showed incredible strength - and presence of mind, to know what to do.

The police have already called & interviewed me and I do know what hospital he's in. But I don't want to call & disturb them. I figured I'd wait tonight & then call in the morning.

This was just so surreal. Like I was watching a tv show in front of me.

They were just talking tonight on the LA news about the increase in gang violence these past few weeks.

You could perhaps just speak to a nurse, not disturb the family. Just in case you don't want to wait till morning.

The mom finally called me. The boy is in ICU and they have intubated him and are keeping him sedated. He keeps having seizures and they aren't sure why. Brain swelling? IDK...but the Mom said they were going to do an MRI since the CAT scan didn't show anything. His jaw isn't broken thankfully but his head wounds were very severe.

The mom put my name on the list as family and I'm going to go & visit tomorrow afternoon. I hope he's awake. I doubt he'll remember me, but it wouldl be nice to see him.

I sent WS an email about what happened and I didn't get a reply back. As usual. He's so fogged it's unreal.

forgive me for being blunt here LA, but your ex could care less about the kind things you are doing. i know you sent that email in hopes that it would change his heart and view of you and that he would suddenly see what a wonderful person you are and everything would be great. hey, i have been in your shoes before, so i know.

you are only hurting yourself when you contact him like that. he doesn't care. and then you are hurt when he doesn't respond. i am not bashing you, i understand why you did it.

unfortunately the choices that were made years ago for you 2 to live several states apart caused damage and that damage, in your exes eyes, may never be able to be repaired. i know you see that now. it does not excuse his affair in any way, but living several states apart did set up that possible scenerio. and i know you know that now too.

it is obvious that you see the innocent mistakes that have been made over the years, but the bottom line is, in your exes eyes, it just may be too little too late. if he is anything like my ex, he can hold a grudge for a long time and it sounds like he has been. i don't see his heart softening anytime soon.

keep seeing your therapist and looking out for YOU. stop emailing him period, you are only hurting yourself. get the taxes done, make sure you get everything you are legally entitled to in your divorce, and start preparing yourself to move on.

he knows where you are and how to contact you if he wants to talk or to work things out. in the mean time, make life happen for yourself. you are waiting on something that as each passing day goes by, especially each passing day that you are living several states apart, is probably not going to happen.

i am sorry if that sounds harsh, but i just hate to see you continually getting hurt. you don't deserve it.

mlhb

Yes, I know he doesn't care right now. But I will still hold onto a little hope that a change will happen.

I am trying to get on with my life and be positive. And I hope if it does come to a D that I won't get taken for a ride. And I know that sounds materialistic and bad, but he's always been there.

I talked to my atty and he said that WS has done nothing about the D so far. I dunno what he's up to. He has no $$ to hire a lawyer unless his family gave him money.

I was reading US Weekly and on pg 4 there was a story about how long to get over divorce? The actor Ryan Phillippe said that "There were a good four or five months of not being able to get out of bed." Nicole Kidman said it took "several months" to pull herself together when she & Tom Cruise broke up.

I tore that article and am putting it on my fridge. I know that even the celebs have meltdowns. Made me feel a bit better.

I start my acting classes up again. It just seems so right. I'm excited and in my element. I mailed out 19 agent submissions and one emailed me right away. She said she wants me to take a commercial class to get up to speed and then call her after the 3rd class & we'll talk.

And that director who cast me in his movie liked me so much on the phone that he said I don't even have to audition. And I get to sing in this movie. I'm excited. I would love to tell WS about all of this, but I don't think it would do any good. He would just be resentful of my success.

LA,
I have been reading your posts for quite sometime now and I just wanted to say "Hi". I am in OC and was actually thinking about you with all this great sunshine we are having.

I just began posting recently and I never knew what to say when you where having really bad days. You sound so much stronger and I am happy to hear that you have some promising job prospects. You know the saying "sucess is the best revenge" I'm not saying you want revenge, what I am saying is you go girl! Go out and take Hollywood by storm and enjoy every minute of it!
Victoria

Thank you Victoria38. I am alot stronger than I was. I reread some of my posts from Oct/Nov/Dec and I was really a mess. Just recently I've started to get my confidence back and strength in my heart to start pursuing my goals again.

Acting class went wonderfully tonight. I felt so strong. I did my scene and the instructor didn't have me make any adjustments. Which means I did good. I can't wait til Saturday for commercial class.

Feeling good today. I think I've shrunk some more. Everything I put on is looser.

Have not heard from WS. He emailed about the taxes and I copied and sent them to him for him to do.

Hi LA,
I think its great that you are trying to be positive and carve out a new life for yourself. As long as you keep a realistic view of your sitch you will come out fine. It is very hard to recover a M being in two different states indefinitely. If your WH's A ends and you guys are still living states apart, what is the plan? Will he move to where you are or will you move to where he is? I only ask because you said you have hope that a change will happen..Do you think there is incentive for him to end his A if you two are living separate lives?

As things are now, It's good that you have your budding career to focus on, it helps to have something positive going on in your life during tough times.. I have a cousin who works as an extra on movie sets and she's done small bit parts on television shows, its her dream to become a famous actress one day, and she's had some success..hope everything works out well for you too.

If he called tomorrow & said he wanted me there, I would probably go there to be with him. It sounds weak & foolish, but even after all of the things he's done, I still love him. As it stands he told me he doesn't want me there. And my entire support system is here. And I know my friends would probably do everything in their power to talk me out of it.

I think he had his paycheck moved to his new account. There was no direct deposit of his military pay into our joint credit union checking account. Usually it's in there by now. There are auto debits for bills for both of us that should be coming out today. I don't know if he's allowed to just leave me high & dry like this.

I called my atty & left a message. And I called military family law office and left message for attorney that I spoke with there a few months back.

I am so confused. And I am having a major panic attack. Just like the ones from Oct/Nov. I'm just sick, shaking, sweating & crying.

I trusted this person for 17 years. Body snatchers have taken my husband & replaced him with somebody else.

I'm sorry you feel so bad, Sunshine. The bank account made you feel somewhat connected to your old life somehow, like maybe he still cared because his check was still going in until now?

That was a really crummy thing to do without informing you. Really crummy and really scummy.

Just hang in there, Keed. It WILL get better. I didn't believe it would and man oh man, am I glad I was wrong!!

You just keep taking care of you and doan pay dat stinkin' alien no mind atall!!

Take care,

Charlotte

((((((((((Sunshine))))))))))

Well I finally talked to him today. He said his 1/2 his pay is to go into our joint acct and 1/2 into his sole acct with another bank. He's being very secretive and really wouldn't tell me much today. He did call me a liar. Yeah, he called me a liar! He said he knows I got the first set of D papers and why didn't I tell him? I told him I wasn't served correctly and therefore I didn't get them. And then I went on to say that he is also a liar and a cheat and has turned into somebody that I don't know if I would want to be with. I was so calm & nice on the phone and I wanted so bad to just scream at him.

Oh...and he said stop bugging his friends. I sent one email to one of his friends to find out how WS was doing and I get into trouble for that.

He's still mad that I have an atty. Atty was very kind to me today & probably talked to me for an hour explaining things. I'm so glad I have him. This is going to be much harder than I thought. Thank goodness for you all and my great Rx of Ativan.

Well my SIL sent me a terrible nasty message on my myspace account. I was just shocked. Those people hardly know me and they are blaming me for the entire situation. Sure, I know some of the failings in our marriage are my fault. But his cheating isn't one of them. It upset me really bad when I was already having a bad day on Thursday and I had a meltdown. Had to talk to 3 of my friends. I was up until midnight. It just stunk.

It turns out I'm doing the taxes this year. He keeps saying he didn't get the tax stuff. I think he is lying to me because I didn't tell him I got the first set of D papers when they were just stuffed into my mailbox and not served correctly.

I did call him & tell him to have his family stop contacting me in any way shape or form. They obviously don't know me and never have. I haven't heard from him except by email.

I just wish I could stop my hands from shaking.

Time for a definite Plan B.

I guess so. I just feel sick. Also found out that he is moving out of his apt. My guess he is moving in with OW. Another spear to my chest.

I keep getting the flight response in my head. Just pack the cats and leave. Go somewhere where nobody knows you. Start over. But I know I can't.

My atty said to just stay put and be calm.

I asked an old classmate how long before he stopped hurting and he said 2 yrs. And then sometimes he still hurts. He said the hurt isn't as bad, but it's still there.

It has been 3 years out for me. It still hurts a bit sometimes. Not to the point where I cannot move on or anything. In fact, I was very happily in another relationship until that ended this past summer.

It takes time. I was bored over the weekend and thinking about doing a myspace page. Well, as I was searching I noticed my ex has one. It was almost like dday all over again. I looked at it, saw stuff from ow on it, some of exes family and some of his "friends". It was also filled with pictures of half naked women and overall just had a design that showed me how much of a pig he really is. I felt sick after that and decided I wanted nothing to do with having a myspace page!

mlhb

I use my myspace for networking. And I write on my blog. It's all private now. No one but my current friends allowed to see.

Talked to another friend tonight and I'm just gonna stay strong and try not to freak out.

Today I received an email from WS. He said he has sent my atty the motion to set a trial date. I called my atty and he said minimum 2 months to do that. But probably longer because we have other things we have to do first.

I am just numb. My atty is good and he calms me down and told me not to panic. He said to start writing down what I want. I want my grandmothers quilts that are in storage. I'm afraid for them.

Make sure your attorney gets you EVERYTHING you are entitled to by the law. EVERYTHING.

You deserve, LA, everything you are entitled to.

mlhb

I know. I've talked to atty about that. It's just so weird because the person I married doesn't exist anymore. He's gone. In a way, I'm afraid of him. I'm afraid of what to say to him. I don't want anything taken the wrong way.

I don't know if I should even talk to him when he calls tomorrow.

I had to bail on acting class tonight because I couldn't think straight. My thoughts are all jumbled together and I just want to crawl into bed with 3 seroquel and a bottle of water.

WS said he would call tonight to go over our finances. I don't want to talk to him. Just thinking about it makes me perspire and shake. I've gone all day without taking any anxiety medication, but I don't know if I can talk to him without getting sick.

I don't know what to do.

I made a decision not to talk to WS. It caused too much hurt and pain and upheavel in my life. I got a mediator. She will be our go between. She called WS and told him who she was & that if he needed to contact me then he was to call her or my atty. They would relay the message. It's like a weight off my shoulders.

I was sleeping pretty good, but I just popped awake and now I'll fight to get back to sleep. I guess what I'm doing is a Plan B. I just can't bear the thought of him living with the OW in an apt together. His furry-kid needs a problem with his teeth fixed, but he's more concerned about her. Total fog.

But knowing he isn't going to call and I'm not going to be startled by any emails gives me a little bit of comfort & relaxation. I can take a deep breath & let it out.

Mediator says this usually really gets them thinking and sometimes angry and that I'm not supposed to answer the phone or an email from them. Call her & she will contact him.

Hopefully today will be better.

If you're going into Plan B, maybe you should send a PBL? I think there are specific things to do, to do a good PB. I'm no expert, maybe others can help here.

My intermediary sent him an email today. And she talked to him yesterday. He knows to leave me alone for awhile. I had an ok day today.

Today feels like the first day where I've felt in control. I don't have this cloud hanging over me worrying about will he or won't he call.

I got so much stuff done today. I saw Mathew Modine and Chris Kattan while I was out doing errands. All I could think about was Night at the Roxbury and that song they played through out the movie.

Oh and Mathew Modine is tall and very handsome.

And you sound SO much stronger, Sunshine!! You can do it!! And it feels SO good to take your life back from the infidels. I don't regret a single day that has passed since I jumped in the truck that day and sped off to meet with OWH to give him the lowdown.

Brave New World.

You deserve so much better! You know this! It is a lot healthier for you to stay out of the Bog of Eternal Stench. Remember, if you so much as stick a toe in you'll smell bad FOREVER!!!

So stay away!!! LOL!!

Matthew Modine, eh? Yeah, I always wonder how people actually are in person. I had the privilege of meeting my most favorite singer in the whole world once. It was GREAT!! He was SO SWEET!! And good lookin' as all get out!! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

I am going to start looking for a job. I've decided I need the extra money + I need to have something to occupy my time. I am looking at different things. I can't go back into mortgage because, well, mortgage stinks right now. I'm looking for a night job where I'll have my days free to audition.

I took 3mg of Ativan. Everything seems fine right now. No worries until it wears off.

My intermediary emailed me this morning. WS is not happy. Not happy about not being able to talk to me and stuff.

Me, I just feel kinda relieved. He was kinda rude to Intermediary and to my lawyer.

Things are gonna get interesting.

I think I'm going to be filing married single because he doesn't want to send the tax stuff to me.

He's turned into a dork. :eek:

That's very interesting, that he's not happy that he can't talk to you!!!

Hmmm, I wonder if Plan B might be working? If nothing else, it's protecting you, right?

Well if his feelings are hurt because he can't talk to me or email me, that's his problem. He's hurt me enough. I need some time to make myself feel better.

That's right! And you took power away from him!!

Good for you!!!!!

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!! It feels so good when you take your life back from the infidels!!

I am trying so hard to be positive and keep my chin up. I just got a call from an old acting coach and she even said that WS might be in his little perfect world right now, but it won't last. It will come apart eventually.

But today I am switching my bills to my private checking account and trying to get my name off CC's that he is paying. I'm worried about my credit rating.

very wise to switch things over and get your name off of cc's.

how is the nighttime job search going?

mlhb

Niaghttime job hunt is alot harder than I thought it would be. I won't be working at a convenience store because I'm a big chicken and don't want to get shot. But I have a friend who works for the LAPD as a civilian employee and they have night jobs. Which would be perfect for me. Cuz the benefits are awesome.

But I called the temp agency today and they know that I will work short or long term assignments if they pay more than $15/hr.

Atty spoke with WS. WS seems scared. And I don't blame him.