My husband and I have been having trouble for a number of years. I really do not even know how it started but it did. We got to a point where we hardly spoke and both were thinking of divorce. I never really thought it would happen and also thought I was the only one so unhappy - how self-centered!

He had a short emotional affair that has lead to much crying and open, difficult conversations.

I truly love my husband and want this to work. When we first talked after the affair, we did tell each other things that were missing in our relationship (I was not affectionate and he did not contribute to household bills or work, and the like). Both made an effort to work on those shortcomings. He certainly did succeed from my point of view and I hope I made noticeable and appreciated effort. My love bank started to fill back up.

He says he still loves me and is attracted to me but does not know if he wants to be married. Some times he feels I am the best thing in his life and then at others he wishes we never met me.

He is also going through a self admitted mid-life crisis. Which really complicates things. He battles depression and seems less interested in 'us' when he is down.

I have been making a great effort to show affection and doing little things for him and it seems to make him happier. The last few days he has kissed me, smiled more and touched me more than we had been.

I do not want to leave this to chance but do whatever I can to help us get back the magic we had (and it was magic!).

I really need advice in bringing up this program. How do I bring this up in a way that does not cause him to just say no and leave.
My heart is torn, I can't eat and I get butterflies every time I see him and I so stressed that I can not think straight and really need advice.

Thank you

Hi noone, welcome to Marriage Builders. I am sorry for the reasons that have brought you here. When was the last time he saw or communicated in any way with the OW? Is the OW married, and if so has the affair been exposed to her husband? Has the affair been exposed at all?

It has been about 3 months since there has been any communication. I am sure they have passed on the road, we live in a small town. However, she will be gone soon if not already as our season is over and she does not live here. She is not married but knows he is. I know that 3 or 4 people are aware of the affair. More know we are struggling but not why. Not to say the affair is the main reason. I know I have much blame in allowing us to get here.

This is the main problem that is preventing recovery of your marriage. Unfortunately, every time he sees her puts him back to day 1 of recovery. He will be triggered each time.


How soon will she be gone? And do you have a plan in case she doesn't leave?


The blame for the affair is all your husbands. The reason he had the affair is because he has poor boundaries around women. If that is not addressed and corrected, he will have more affairs. Perhaps conditions in the marriage made it tempting, but there is no excuse for an affair.

The reason I asked who knew is because affairs thrive on secrecy. When they are kept secret, the fantasy thrives and grows. Exposure ruins that aspect of the affair. Dr. Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders, recommends exposure. It not only ruins the fantasy and motivates the cheater to fix the marriage but the more people who know, the more people to hold him accountable. Exposure is the absolute most impactful step towards recovery for these reasons.

It is a good idea to tell everyone. They can be a great support to your marriage and can help hold your husband accountable.

Please go over this checklist and tell us what has been completed..

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

Thank you so much for taking the time to help. I was able to confirm with a 3rd party the OP has left the state. Here is where we are on the checklist...
Checklist for How Affairs Should End

___X__The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

__X___The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

__X (was verbal)___The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

__??___The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_x____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse). Did not change cell phone as it is a business line but I delete her from his phone and do check his calls emails,and texts and have been since I discovered the texts message 3 months ago

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers). [[color:#33FF33]color:#33FF33][color:#66FF99]He tells me if I ask but only sometimes tells me on this own.[/color] [/color][/color]
__X___Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent). [color:#33FFFF]I get all bank statements and financial information, I pulled his credit report to see if he had other accounts or credit cards but found nothing. [/color]

__X___Spend leisure time together. Not as much as I would like but trying to not push due to his concurrent mid-life crisis

__In process___Change jobs and relocate if necessary. OP did and left, Hubby and I are working on getting the house ready to sell so we can move - I am applying for jobs in other states (not state where OP lives)but last night be started talking about moving regardless of job status.

__x___Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

Your WH is not having a mid life crisis (and in fact, Dr Harley does not believe in such a thing). He was having an affair. His behavior and uncertainty about your marriage was standard affair behavior, not due to some 'mid life crisis.'

Based on the way your H is acting, I would bet money he has continued contact with her, just in a way that you are not monitoring. For instance, if it is a business phone, do you have access to deleted texts and calls, and or the phone bill to see what texts or calls have come in, or could he possibly just be deleting what he doesn't want you to see? He also could have a second burner phone, or a new email account that you are not aware of. I would advise you to up your snooping technique for awhile to rule out any continued contact. I would advise a VAR (voice activated recorder) in his car, to rule out phone conversations with a burner phone, and a key logger on his devices which would pick up any activity on any email/text/social website exchange. You would NOT want to tell him about this snooping.

Even if she has moved away, he could still continue talking to her, and he will continue to remain in 'the fog', you will fight the contrast affect, and your marriage will not recover.

This is all 'fog babble' that is due to the affair. He is confused and in depression, because he is in an affair. He is less interested in your marriage because he is in an affair.

Hello noone733, here is a link that is chalk-full of info about extraordinary precautions. This link is a thread and there are more great links in there, including some links to Dr. Harley speaking about EPs on the radio show: Extraordinary Precautions

You have put a voice to things I have not been able to admit, but...

I do have access to the business phone bills - it is his company (very small construction co). I am his accountant, I write his checks, balance the check books, write his email, contracts, etc. I also have a full time day job.

He is very technology and administratively ignorant. However, I suspect he does delete text messages. I have been checking the phone bills but she could have different numbers I am unaware of.

He does not have a phone that allows email access and does not use our computer. Nevertheless, I have been checking the browser history and nothing so far. I will add a key logger- just in case.

But, I think the VAR in his truck is a great idea and I will continue to find more ways to check on his activities. I will see if a key logger will work on his very old phone to see about text messages and if so, get that going as well.

Thanks for the straight talk- I need to hear it.

Thank you, that looks very helpful.

Just know that as long as she can reach him, the affair will remain at high risk. Your checking will not prevent that. He should change all of his contact #s.


He needs to account for his time. All of your leisure time should be spent together, and he should account for his work time.


"Mid life crisis" is a mythological construct used as an excuse by wayward spouses and a form of denial for betrayed spouse. The only one having a crisis here is you. You have been a victim of his affair and that is a crisis. He is not having a "crisis" at all, he was having an affair.



Very good!!

And it also sounds like the affair was not exposed. That is where I would begin. It is one of the most critical first steps in recovery.

You can also retrieve all of his deleted text messages with this software: http://www.wondershare.com/data-recovery-mac/mac-iphone-data-recovery.html

Do you have the password to his phone? I would get his phone, retrieve his deleted texts and install spyware.

GPS on a phone or other device is very helpful as well. My security level has recovered greatly from being able to see that my H is where he says he is. VAR can then be used to see who he is with. When you know everything and things are always as they should be, you will feel safer in the marriage.

Its like Reagan said, "Trust but verify."

Interestingly, a secular morning radio program was discussing phone access yesterday. They all agreed that you should be able to check your partners phone. They also agreed if the phone is never allowed out of sight or if looking at the phone causes defensiveness, you should suspect and investigate. It seems a large percentage of people feel this way, not just MB people.

WH told me last night he is still seeing OW and is in love with her, she makes him feel like the greatest guy in the world and is pulling him from me. He said is also in love with me and being in love with 2 women stinks.

Such a blow, I could not sleep last night and have an empty pain all over.

He did seem to be willing to give the Marriage Builders program a try -then seemed to change his mind. But did say will watch the videos on this site. I am going to show him the site today.

Do I expose now or is it really too late? I really need help surviving this. We have been together 19 years and I can not imagine life without him in it.

You need to expose today. This should have been done already.

Tell us who is on your exposure list.

Have you read the Exposure thread?

Is OW married or have a boyfriend?

No, no do not show him this site. You need to spend your time exposing this affair. You need to make sure and expose to OW's side.

I have just been sitting here thinking about the list. I will call my mom first, then my dad. I will contact my in-laws (who hate me) and his brothers, one of which lives local. I do not expect any support expect for my family.

Neither of us have a FB page or other social media, he is self employed. I will tell my friends at work but, I don't think I have anyone else to put on the list.

Nope, he is her boyfriend.

I do not know anything about her but a first name. I could expose at OW work but that is about all. She knows I know.

Do you have her phone number?

I think I just found it. What do I do with that?

I would start by finding her full name and then get her family, either through fb or whitepages. You need to expose to her side too.

How do you know this? If you don't know anything about her except for a first name, how can you make this statement?

This 3rd part must know who this OW is. How did you even manage to talk about OW unless this 3rd party knew her well?

Could you explain who this 3rd party is, and what they told you?

You need to tell him to leave, and he needs to leave immediately.

You have been coping with a situation where you H is sleeping with another woman, and it is wrecking you, emotionally and physically. You need to get him out of the home and not have any further direct contact with him. You need to tell him in a letter that you will consider reconciling with him when he can prove to you that OW is out of his life.

This separation is called Plan B, and you need to prepare for it and do it properly so that your H does not break your rules and continue to make contact with you. Contact is making you ill, and his sleeping with two women is making him very happy. That needs to stop.

Are you actually having sex with him? That needs to stop, and you need to be STD tested. He also needs to have a clean test before you consider going near him again - AFTER the affair has ended.

You need to be in Plan B by the end of the weekend. Don't worry about where you H is going to live; that is his problem. If he doesn't leave peacefully, pack his stuff, put it outside and change the locks, while he is at work. If he tries to break back in, call the police and let him tell them about his sleeping with another woman.

Do you have children? How old? Are you in paid employment?

noone, I am sorry about the newest developments. The others are right, the affair should be exposed right away. I would find the OW's Facebook page and expose there according to the steps in my exposure thread.

I would also ask your husband to move out. If he will not end his affair immediately, then you must separate. If he won't move out, then you should pack and find another place to live. That step is called Plan B. The reason is because staying in touch with him a) makes you look unattractive and b) will tear you down emotionally and physically, making it much harder for you to recover.

And please don't send him here or tell him about this program until he has ended his affair. This program is for recovery and you can't possibly recover until he ends his affair.

I would pack up his clothes and tell him he needs to leave immediately.

I had a ton of things I had to do today but while running around, I spoke to my mom and dad. Very helpful to have support. My extended family that I have been out of contact with is also starting to hear and offer support. I told my mom first and boy was that hard but worth it. Hard to tell dad too but he has been fantastic, I cry just typing that.

I tried his side a few times but no luck so far - will keep trying. I may have to email if they do not take my calls. I suspect that might mean the know, but can't say for sure.

The third party was someone that worked with OW at her seasonal job and seemed to be in a position to know but guess not.

Will try to find out more about OW. You are right that I can not say she does not have a someone, I only have WH story.

We have no kids and I am the breadwinner. He does not make much money at all and can in no way pay the bills.

noone, that is a great start!! What you want is for as many people as possible to be calling him. Have they started calling? It is important to get your exposures completed as quickly as possible so it hits your husband with a tsunami effect.

Have you searched for the OW on Facebook? That is the ideal place to stage an exposure.

Did you read the exposure thread?

I have read the exposure thread and took one of the letters and started to modify it for emailing his family since I have not been in contact by phone. I can also send that anytime, day or night.

I have not yet searched FB, my phone has been ringing off the hook. For the last two hours I spoke to a cousin I have not talked to in years and it was wonderful to get support.

My next two tasks are to email and find anything I can about OW.

Thank you very much to taking time to help me.

Well, turns out the number that I thought was OW was just a fishing buddy that I know. I will keep looking, but nothing else so far.

I have emailed he family and childhood best friend who is a pastor and married us to tell them about the affair (a modified letter from the exposure 101 thread). So far, I do not know of anyone calling WH but I would really have no way of knowing at this point.

He is now gone hunting for two weeks (verified with air taxi company that flew him out, no women, only 2 guys - the company owner is a friend of mine who I trust, no one else flies where they went and the owner said he will not fly him out early, as a favor to me)

So, I am taking off and working out of a different office for 1.5 weeks. Another friend of mine is housesitting. I will be home before he is, so I think this break will do me good.

Please keep us in your thoughts. I sure hope exposure helps him end this affair. This black hole feels like it is swallowing me.

How did he meet OW? You said you live in a small town that she was at "seasonally", was she working seasonally? If you know where she works can you get her information from her employer (you might have to be sneaky about this and not blatantly ask for it)? You said you have a common friend (the one who said she was out of town now for good), can you get more information from that friend about her?

Finding out who the OW is and exposing on her side is very, very important. Do not be lazy about finding this info out! We have had posters find out the identity of unknown OW's/OM's who were in a different country, and you share a small town together, surely there is some way to find out her identity if you dig enough.

Did you verify this for yourself? My husband's OW was named a man in his cell phone. He had her as the second number for a (legitimate) employee that he worked with.

Can you go to the office at her seasonal employment and ask if anyone will give you her last name? And if you're lucky, her home town?

OW does work seasonally in our town and I know where. My sister in law (WH's brother's wife)is her boss. I asked her this morning for info and am waiting for a reply. However, I will keep looking.

I did verify the phone number was not OW myself. I first called and WH buddy answered and I paid for a criss-cross of the number. I will keep looking, I will find her.

I did hear from WH father. He left me a voicemail saying he is very upset with WH and wants to talk to me. I will call or he will try again. This reaction is a total surprise to me. I expected home to tell WH forget about me.

Exposure really did help. No matter what happens, I feel more loved and supported by friends and family that I could have dreamed. I am sure WH does not see it that way tonight.

You are doing great with exposure. Now you really need to focus on exposing to OW side.

Can you call your SIL to ask her directly for contact information?

noone, when does your husband come back home? I would have a plan in place to separate. When he comes home, I would demand that he end his affair immediately. If he won't do this, then he must move out. Are you prepared for this step?

Can your SIL give you the number?

I have called Sil to ask for OW phone number and any other info she has. She did not answer, again, so I suspect she has made a decision not to help. I will talk to FIL tonight and see if he can help.

I am prepared to tell WH he must move out immediately if he will not end affair. He will be back one week from this Saturday.

Frankly, I could not have even imagined that I would do that prior to exposure. However, have talking to family and friends, I am ready- I think I needed people to remind me that I am strong and can do this and MUST do it!

I owe everyone in this board a debt I can never repay. I do not know how I would have survived without all the great advice and encouragement. From the bottom of my broken heart, thank you.

I encourage you to Continue to monitor his accommodations on this trip.

Do you think your SIL has enabled the affair?

You have been doing a great job!!

If youvare still amenable to reconciliation, you should give him your excellent Plan B Letter, so he knows, in writing, what terms and conditions he must meet before you would even consider it.

LTL

I agree with that, but she needs to first separate from him and get situated.

I agree with all of it! A good plan B letter and getting myself situated and separated from him. I am reading up on Plan B again and will be ready, with a little help with everyone here as well borrowed backbone from friends and family!

SIL may very well be enabling the A, hard to believe, we have been friends longer than Sil's, but that is how it looks.

Spoke with FIL and Mil last night. Very touching. My FIL and I cried together, which is unheard of for him. He will see if he has any info on OW or if SIL will call or tell him. FIL had not spoken with WH. Said since I contacted him, we wanted to hear what I had to say first. He is very upset with WH and said he will talk with him when he gets his thoughts together and has a bit of time to process this bombshell.

Fil did say WH called right before my email and never said a thing. FIL was very disappointed OW did not say something. Oh well.

In any case I am still looking and will find OW and E.

What do you mean he was disappointed she didn't say anything?

Sorry. I meant that FIL as disappoint WH did not tell him when they spoke.

Found OW's full name and FB account today- all thanks to google. Amazing what the right keywords can find, gotta just keep trying! I found her (very obscure and odd)blog mentioning my Bil and SIL by name and saying she was coming to my town this summer to work where WH told me she did. I reopened by FB account today and SIL is a freind, and I found OW also as friend of SIL. Feeling pretty sure I got the right person.

I am working an my letter to her FB contacts, will use the pay system found in E 101.

Great job!

Make sure you cut and paste her info/friends list so you have it just in case she were to delete her account or put it on lockdown.

Good job. When will you be exposing?

WONDERFUL NEWS!

I commend you for being persistent in digging for OWs info. Be sure to expose to her parents and any siblings.

[/quote]
Good job. When will you be exposing?

[/quote]

Likely this weekend. I want to do it while WH is away so OW faces it alone.

Great advice. I just did it!

Well, heard back for other BIL and SIL- they are good friends with OW and reason she came to our town. Said knew WH was friends with OW but not about A. Not sure I buy that. Also said will not say anything to WH or OW, want to stay out, none of their business. I bet if SIL had to walk mile in my shoes, it may have been a different response, but ya never know. Frankly,I am surprised they responded at all.

Big weekend exposing to OW's FB friends so no time to dwell on Bil/SIL response. After work today, I will begin. OW has lots of FB friends, so will take time to do.

Thanks again for all great advice and support.

Did you expose to OW's family?

Only found OW mom so far, mailed letter but not likely it has reached her yet. Will keep looking for more of OW family. Maybe some of her FB contacts are family with different last names, we will see I suppose.

noone, how many Facebook friends does she have? I would expose to as many of them as possible. But you need to get this done NOW. Exposure should only take 24-48 hours in order to create a tsunami effect. Dragging this out diminishes the impact.

She has about 140. I plan to do them all, ya never know who is who. Should be done by this evening. My Internet connection where I am working is pretty slow, so it will a bit longer than in most areas and I want to space them by a minute or so, hoping FB will not flag or stop it.

I would sort them by married friends first (in case you get kicked out or flagged).

awesome!!

Done!

What type of reaction should I expect from OW? Is it likely that she will try to contact me? What do I do if she does? I suspect she will be mad as a hornet.

Kind of liberating in a way-still freaked out and nervous.

Bravo to you!!!

If that skank DARES to contacts you, just let her know there is more to come if she doesn't keep her skank hoe mitts away from your husband!!

[/quote]

Bravo to you!!!

If that skank DARES to contacts you, just let her know there is more to come if she doesn't keep her skank hoe mitts away from your husband!! [/quote]

I like it! Thanks again for everything!

I am sitting here getting ready for by WH return tomorrow. Today has been a very weepy day- I had been doing so well.

Anyway, my plan is to ask if he is having any type of contact with OW. If yes, that he needs to find someplace else to stay.

In prep, I have opened my own bank accounts and am poised to change everything over. Since I pay all the bills anyway, it is just paperwork. I just want to be sure I am not paying for his living expenses. He can figure that out, and he will.

I am fully expecting him to not stop seeing OW. I have not considered any other response.

Anything I am missing for this step?

I know I need to write the PBL but am hoping to get this over first in case any new information is revealed and to let me process a bit. Is there a time frame to deliver PBL?

Please send me strong thoughts, this is going to be terribly difficult.

Noone, you will do just fine. He does need to do more than just end his affair, he needs to PROVE all contact has ended, take steps to ensure they never cross paths and commit to going through this program of marital recovery. Ending his affair is only step #1. After that you will have a crippled marriage. And he will have another affair if that is not is changed. '

I would hand him the checklist and just say "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage." Set the bar very high, my friend, don't settle for crumbs. iF you settle for crumbs, that is what you will get.


Good girl!!


I would get separated first and then send him the PBL within a couple of weeks. That will give you time to find an intermediary.


I will send you strong thoughts. You are a strong lady and will be just fine. What will be terribly difficult is if you are stuck in a marriage with a husband who continually hurts you with mean, thoughtless, destructive behavior.

You have been a real trooper, my friend!! Be strong and hang in there!

Well, he got back last night. He was acting a bit different than when he left. For instance, he had new shower heads. I have been wanting to change ours for sometime, but had not mentioned it in awhile, never thought he would remember. He also looked me in the eye, reached out to touch me a few times, and actually listened when I was talking to him.

Anyway, I asked if he was still in contact with OW. WH said "she left, she is not here". So, I repeated my question and he said he was still in contact. I told him that will not work for me, all contact must stop.

Much to my surprise, he agreed. We talked for a while about all kinds of things. I gave him a general idea of what I expect -no contact, taking precautions to keep it that way and working a recovery program. It was late, we had been talking for awhile and crying always makes me tired, so we left it there.

We had a good talk, but no way near enough to judge if he means it or not.

We spent a good part of today together catching up on the company books since it had been a couple of weeks. He is now out checking on some jobs he got going this week. He has called to tell me where he is and what he is doing. No tracking yet to verify but, calling to tell me is more than he did before yesterday.

I will give more specifics tonight on how he needs to prove to me there is no contact, specific percautions, etc. Things like blocking her on his phone, giving me his phone code, time and money accountability...

I still think we can recover, if he is really willing, but I have doubts about that.

Does this sound like the right way to go? What am I missing?

First off, I would trade phones with him and/or have him change his # so she can't call him. that is a critical first step. Sure, he can block her, but she can be unblocked in 2 seconds flat. I would also place spyware with a GPS on his new phone. [he can't know about this]

And of course, you have to have open access to everything.

Just telling you where he is won't stop anything. He can tell you anything he wants. If you have a GPS on him, you can see if he is telling the truth.

I would make sure that ALL of your leisure time is spent together on dates.

He should send that hoe a no contact letter as per Dr Harley's instructions:

here


[from SAA, pg 58]

OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely, XXXXX

I kicked him out tonight. About 10 minutes ago.

I just kenw he was lying to me. Yesterday, I found POSOW phone number and earlier tonight WH phone code. Was getting ready to install spyware but, he saved me the trouble.

Here is how it happened....
He went into the kitchen and fiddled with his phone. I strolled in and saw the texting was to POSOW. I asked if that was OW, he said yes. I said , so are still in contact with her? He said yes. I told him to find someplace else to stay that this was too painful for me. He took a few things and left. Never said a word or looked me in the eye.

Not sure we will be able to come back from this. But, this way has got to be easier on me and for now, I will try to be thankful for that. But, boy is this hard. Right now, I just want to get through the next hour.

One other thing, I spoke with FIL a couple days ago and he said he had spoken with BIL who said OW left our town. I suspect that is true, but does not really matter now.

hi noone, yes we know that this is hard, but it will be better for you in the long run.

Your FIL doesn't seem to get it that just because "OW left your town", that does not mean that the affair has ended.

I can't remember...were you able to expose to OWs siblings?

noone, I am so sorry. It is better to find out the truth sooner than later. I would pack up the rest of his stuff, put in your garage and change the locks. In a few days you can send him a Plan B letter.

And I would contact your FIL and let him know the affair is alive and well.

I am not completely sure. I exposed to all OW FB friends which might include OW siblings. So far, have not found any siblings in Mt searching. But, still looking and finding info so will see what I can find.

I will call FIL this afternoon when he is done with work. I think WH thought if he did not see her, I would be OK with it- he was/is wrong. He looked a bit shocked when I told to leave.

I agree, better to find out now.

Thanks for all the help and support!

Have you read up on Plan B?

You know that Plan B means NO CONTACT at all with WH. You need to make yourself unreachable to him completely. Block him from phone, text, email, change if you have to. Have an IM handle any business you might together. Have you found an IM?

Here, How to Plan B Correctly

I called FIL and advised of recent events. He said it seemed perfectly reasonable of me to kick him out. He is disappointed but says he sees it as WH's doing not mine.

I have read the Plan B materials- alot.

I have blocked his number from my cell. No home phone. I have the computer, not that he can do much with it anyway. Moved almost all money to my personal account and will change over the autopays so our joint account will go away. I will take my name off the biz account, it is his biz anyway.

The IM is my issue at the moment. Local BIL/SIL are BFF's of POSOW so that does not work. My mom will not be able to hold he tounge, nor will my dad. He has one good friend, but not the right person for this, not responsible. I am thinking about FIL and Mil but that seems wrong too. I could have one of my freinds do it but i suspect he would not be comfortable with that. We own a small business so for the short term, we will need to pass some info and mail. Any creative IM ideas?

There is also one complication. His specaity shop is on our property. It is a little ways from the house, but it is rented by the biz and is necessary for it to run. He has lots of tools and materials that will take some time for him to find a new spot for. In the meantime, he will need regular access. Not all day or every day, but access when he needs it. My idea was to limit his access to the hours I am work at my "day" job.. If he needs more access, let the IM know, and I will arrange to leave the house.

Then we will need to work out dog parenting.

I am working on my "love" letter and addendum.

I will pack his stuff from the house this weekend and put it all in the shop. I will also get an IM worked out and have them get the letters to WH - hopefully by Sunday.

I plan to continue moving forward on moving. Applied for a job many states over. Might be a month or so before I hear anything. But cleaning closets and otherwise prepping to sell house gives me something to do.

I am doing better today. While sad and weepy, not as stressed or worried as before. I think this will allow me to find a new normal to my life. Made plans with a girlfriend for saturday and next tuesday. Trying to just keep myself busy and with supportive friends. Wish my family were closer.

How should I expect this to go? Is there a "normal" way WH respond to this. He seemed shocked last night but was not mad.

I would use one of your friends. We know he won't be comfortable with an IM at all. He will likely initially REFUSE until he sees he won't get a message to you unless he uses her. do you have a friend who can show a neutral front?


I would ask him to find another place asap.


Oh c'mon. just decide who gets the dog and be done with it.


Do you have the Plan B letter from SAA?


Perfect!


Very good!!


You will feel so much better in 2-3 weeks that you will be surprised how bad you have felt for so long. As long as you stay in a pitch dark Plan B.


Usually the WS will get really mad when you go into Plan B. He probably thinks you will come running soon. He will not like losing control of you!

You are doing great! So proud of you for standing up for you!!!!

Your right, I will keep the dog. He left us for POSOW.

I will see if one of my friends will do it. Your right, he will think this is dumb and try not to do it. But, I WILL NOT communicate with him directly, only via IM.

I do have the SAA letter and found some looking through the notable posts thread.

I wilL not give in and go running back to WH. He might think I will, but he will be surprised.

Noone, please be strategic about your PlanB...



OK, you need the resources to maintain your (the marital) household, GOOD



You are still married, this business belongs to you BOTH, at least until such time as you actually divorce and it is allocated in a settlement. You want to keep all avenues open to yourself even if you don't use them.




Use YOUR friend. Who cares what your WH is comfortable with, the intermediary works for you, not him. In all likliehood no IM will be satisfactory for your WH because he cannot manipulate you if there is an IM. The IM needs to be someone that will keep your safety paramount, In-laws generally have a soft spot for their child/sibling and soon would start to campaign for you to lower your standards. Please use your friend whose loyalty is to you and your marriage.



Your idea sounds like a good one, except his access should be more scheduled with certain hours just totally off limits, like after 11 or before 8. He should also allow you ample lead time (1 hour?) so you do not need to drop what you are doing and constantly react to his schedule. This whole arrangement should have a finite end date, he needs to move that stuff our by 2 weeks? whatever is rational.



Expect hiim to fight it as it represents him losing a substantial amount of access and "control". Stay resolute!

The Plan B Letter template from SAA are in this thread.

Point taken. Will keep it as is.

I saw WH truck at a restaurant on my way home from work last night and it brought out the tears. Just was not expecting to see it. So, decided will go a different way home that avoids the main road and is more residential.

Then today, WH come by the house while I was outside - and I did not hear him pull up so could not hide. Said he needed to pick up something or another, the asked how I was. I panicked, said fine and then realized what I had done, so I left. He was gone when I got back but he had done the dishes and took out the trash. That was the last contact, about 6 hrs ago. Boy, was that hard-lots of tears. I see why the IM is so needed.

So, I wrote my PBL and most of addendum. Told him when he ends the A for once and all, takes EP, and agrees to a recovery program, we can talk about it.

I still have no IM. The two friends I thought would do it, both have upcoming travel plans that make them unavailable for long periods of time. So, need that worked out. Is there a company that offers this service?

I am starting to pack his things and will take them to the shop. Will be good when that is done.

Not sure what to do after that.

Hi noone, sorry you had to run into him. I know that had to have been so hard. Do you think you have a sister or brother who could be an IM? Also, an IM only has to have access to email in order to be an IM. He/she would act as a spam filter and pass on pertinent information only in their own words. They wouldn't even have to be local. Any ideas?

I asked our neighbor to be my IM and she agreed. It will have to be text messages to her as WH does not email (I have had key logger since not long after first posting here and nothing. I do all computer related work for the biz.)

I finished packing his things and will take them out to the shop tomorrow. PBL and addendum are finished and will go to IM when I move his stuff.

Ok,I think I am ready.

Good girl!! Does the IM have a way to get it to him?

And I would change the locks on your house. I promise you he will come in if you don't. He won't like losing control.

IM does have way to get PBL TO WH. She will try to get that done tomorrow.

I got new deadbolts before WH comeback from hunting thinkin I was kicking out out that night. So, I will change those out tomorrow. Installing locks is one of the handy skills I learned from him.

I think I have the opposite fear,that he will not try to come round or get mad. He will think I did him a favor by making it easier on him. Guess we will find out.

Thank you again ML and everyone else posting on this board. You all have saved my sanity and helped me so much. No matter what happens, I feel like I can look myself in the mirror for the way I have handled things after learning about A and that is thanks to all of you.

Dr Harley's plans WORK, one way or another. They either kill the affair and recover marriages, or they lead you to your own personal peace and a life you can be proud of.

But you are responsible for taking the actions necessary. Many people come here and refuse to follow the same advice or take any action to help themselves. YOU did what you had to do. Be proud of yourself for that

You are very welcome! And bravo to you for stepping up and taking action. Your marriage might not make it, but the steps you have taken give it the best chance. You will come out of this in good shape regardless of what happens. You are a real trooper!

You can expect your husband to initially refuse to use your IM, so just be prepared to back her up if he contacts you directly. I would have a plan in place to block any direct contact. Block his phone # and email address. If he tries to get through, have your IM contact him and say "noone did not read the message you sent. Please send any messages to me."

Additionally, please ask her to only send you messages that are pertinent, i.e.: financial issues, legal issues, etc. in her words. If he sends a longwinded lecture about you are being immature not talking to him [Plan B drives WS's crazy] then she should not send that to you. She should send him an email or text saying "I will not be sending this along to noone because this is not in accordance with her letter."

She can expect to get a long letter about how it is a bad idea for you to not see or speak to him because how can you solve the marriage problems if you are not in touch, blah, blah, blah, blah. She just needs to remind him that the marriage problems won't be solved unless he meets the conditions in your letter. He will try to gain access without meeting your conditions beuasce he wants to maintain the status quo of keeping both you and the OW.

I gave IM printed instructions found on this forum someplace, can't remember where I found that post, it was something like IM school. I think she will do well. I know first hand how hard contact is so I will certainly tell her if WH tries to contact me. I want to give my marriage a chance and this is the only way to do that.

IM delivered PBL when WH went to the shop today. Guess he saw his stuff before IM got there, so he knew what was happening without reading the letter.

Locks are changed, and his number blocked. Guess that is all for now.

Sure is hard.

I can't wait for the tears to happen less often.

You are doing just great!! Hang in there. I promise it will get better. Please try and keep it as dark as possible, because the longer you go without seeing him, the faster you will feel better. Soon enough you will feel better than you have in months.

Please give your IM my email address. If she needs any help, i would be glad to help her. Sometimes the initial contacts are very scary [the WS tries to intimidate the IM] but once she navigates through that, she will be fine. Being an IM is the easiest job in the world if you do it right. Let me know when you have seen it and I will remove it.

Got it- thank you!

Good job. Plan B will be tough, but when you need support or feel like you're going to contact your WH come here to the board.

Also it's very important to put your self-care as a priority. Make some plans with family or friends this week to help.

You're doing fantastic.

I think E might be hitting it's mark. Not sure why this took so long, but had 2 FB messages from OW FB friends tonight. One supportive and one said it's no one biz.

I checked OW FB page and I can no longer see her friends. Frankly this is the frist time I tried to look since E, so not sure when that happened.

Anyway, a few minutes ago WH had his freind text me to say "please understand this was all my (WH) doing no one else." I did not respond.

Guess POSOW did not like me telling her FB friends. Wh friend's number has now been blocked.

I hope one of those I told via FB was her mom. (By the way, the letter I mailed to OW mom got returned, no longer at this address).

I emailed IM to tell her about it. She reminded WH that all contact must go thru her.

That is awesome! Sounds like the crap is hitting affair land. Good for you for blocking WH.

Your screen name is "noone". The stupid "this is noone's biz" fb response to E is pretty ironic! Good on you for taking care of your "Biz" - your marriage.
And yes, of COURSE you deserve the dog!

You are doing great. If everyone followed Dr Harley's plan so well, many more marriages would be saved. I agree that it sounds like you have wreaked havoc in affairland. Even if the letter was returned to you, I am guessing that someone that was notified through FB was a relative, and once one knows the word will spread. It isn't just the people you exposed to, it is all the people they then also expose to. If one sister got it, for instance, she would immediately call other sisters or sister-in-laws or mom to discuss it. The one time the gossip mill can work in your favor

Yes, affairs are NO ONE's business. What a bunch of crap. I know when my H had an A, one of my close friends at the time told me to 'not take it personal.' Um, what? Ya, I'd say another woman sleeping with my man is PERSONAL, and it is my business too! Just don't respond to idiots like that.

Way to go!!

Thanks for all the encouragement!

I came home to find my WH had dropped off payroll to IM and IM left it for me on my kitchen table. It was in WH writing. I thought she was going to rewrite it for me. Will remind her. But, that is not the hardest part.

As I was sitting down to run payroll, WH walks up. IM was not home and he again parked at the end of driveway and walked up so I did not hear his truck. Grrrr. It is so hard to see him. I can't stop myself from crying.

I am sorry to say I broke the rule and spoke to him. I told him I would buy a new computer this weekend and give him the laptop with the company books. He said ok, asked if I understood his writing for payroll and left. I dropped the finished payroll and a few invoices at IM to deliver to WH.

Once I give him the laptop, it should pretty much eliminate any contact we will need. He can find someone to do his company books now. He does not want me, then he also loses his bookkeeper.

Then I tried to log on to FB and was asked to submit on ID. They said that I might be using a fake name. Really? That must be POSOW doing. Before E, I last logged on in 2009. I really just wanted to see if there were any more responses from E. Guess I got under her skin and WH could not stop it.

This is so hard. I have to stop him from stopping by, I sob like a baby and that is not attractive.

How did he get in the house?

It was our first sunny afternoon in quite sometime. When I got home from work, I sat at the table by our back french doors and had one of the doors open and was enjoying the sun hitting me while I was doing payroll.

Sicne he had followed the rules on this and given payroll information to IM, I did not think he would show up. Per IM he has been nice and took her reminders of no contact well. He promised he would follow the rules.

Guess that is an end to that-no more open doors -will be too cold soon anyway.

Today is a hard day- it is his birthday. I am fighting the urge to wish him happy birthday. So, I am posting here instead. It is the first birthday in 19 years that I will not speak to him. I am just trying to hold it together

Going over to a girlfriends for dinner to help keep me busy. Hope that helps.

Good job coming here instead. Don't break your PB, it will only make YOU miserable. Remember, Plan B is to protect you. Don't worry about what day it is for him, put him out of your mind and fill it with good things like dinner with your girlfriends

Well, I survivid and did not contact him. Today is better.

I sent his longest and best friend, who also is the pastor that married us, the same email as I did WH parents and at the same time. Yesterday, he wrote back to WH.

Wow, want a powerful letter. He is an amazing guy and has had his own marital struggles so knows the path we are on . He recovered his marraige and tells WH he can too if he ends the A. He asked WH to go back to church, read bible 3 x per week for 20 minutes and ask God to change WH heart toward me everyday. He asked him to do this for 60 days and see how he feels at the end of that.

It was fantastic from my point of view. I could not read it without crying, I suspect the same will be true for WH.

Seems my E has taken some time, but feels likeep the wave is hitting WH and POSOW.

Thanks for all the support!

Hang in there Noone, you are doing great. If you are dwelling on the situation too much, get in touch with some friends and see if they can help keep you busy. If you don't have too many close acquaintances, maybe take up some activities that your are interested in but never had the time for. Get the good stuff to crowd out the bad bad stuff.

On your plan B though, I have a couple thoughts about being strategic:


Why doesn't he go get another laptop and get it all set up? If he wants to use the marital laptop, he can drop his skank, become completely transparent and fall in love with his wife again. Seems to me that is the right way to go.

If you give him that laptop, then please, please, please make a copy of the entire hard drive. In the unfortunate event you head towards divorce, that bookkeeping history will be invaluable. In the event you go towards recovery, you have history on spending and can ensure that company funds are not being used to support an affair. You need the visibility into your WH's resources either way.

Last, I understand that relinquishing the role of book keeper greatly reduces how much interaction you need to have, but since you own that role now, you should find a replacement that is loyal to you and that will report the company's progress to you without reference to your WH. Sort of like a company IM. If your WH locates this person, they will become his ally to further his goals which may include devaluing the company, or hiding his activities from his "jealous possessive" wife. While he is in the affair, I would consider all his actions and motivations as suspect.

Thanks WalktheWalk,
I have only been thinking of ways to eliminate things that remind me of WH, not protecting my interests in case of D.

I will not give up the laptop- at least not yet. I can do most of the bookkeeping without anything from him. Payroll will really be the only issue and I now have that worked out better with IM.

Understood, but that visibility into the finances of the company also helps you snoop in the event you get to recovery. I hope you do.

Keep up to good work! I love to see when BSs execute well.

Just wanted to check in. I feel 100% better since NC started.

I have finished getting all household bills changed over to my new personal account. Our joint account is empty. I am sure WH was surprised when his atm card was declined.

I will continue doing the company books. If nothing else to keep an eye on things.

He has followed the NC rule and used IM. Assuming MelodyLane has not heard from my IM with any issues. She said it has been very easy.

Had one more angry response from POSOW FB friend. I just smiled knowing I hit the mark.

The only issue has been random run in with WH. We live in a very small town- less than 500 people small. We have one grocery store nearby (less than 2 hrs away). So, I have run into WH twice there, once at a restaurant and on the road a few times. I am not sure how to act. I have been ignoring him,even when he says hello.

Hoping to hear something on the job front so I can get out of here and stop those run ins.

I am trying to concentrate on me- eating well, exercising, getting good sleep and the like. Got lots of great support and doing my best to keep busy. Even rearranged the furniture.

Thanks again guys for all the help, advice and support. I know I would not feel this good if I had not listened to all of you. Heck, it has been 2 days since I cried!

You are doing awesome, noone!! And you sound 100% better. Glad to hear you are trying to get out of there. I have heard nothing from your IM so she must be coping well. Thanks for the update.

You sound so much better. Stay the course, my friend.

I got some good news today- I have a job interview next week. It would require a move far from here and would be a good promotion that gives an excellent opportunity for more advancement. The thought of this job has been something to hold on to during all of this.

So, why am I sad, scared and crying? I miss him tonight.I think this is the frist time I have really felt like I miss him. Not mad or anything else.

I guess it is because WH would be the first person I would have told. Now, I don't feel like telling anyone.

I am sure it will pass, but dang it sucks.

Sorry you are feeling down, noone! And congrats on your job interview! I hope everything goes well for you.

Hang in there. If you haven't read Indigirl's thread do so. It will give a good idea about the ups and downs to expect. Are you taking care of yourself? Having a fun girl's night soon? Could you take a friend with you to the job interview day and make a fun trip of it?

How are you doing?

Not great but trying my best. Went through all our closets to get ready for a yard sale. Found lot's of old pics and all the love letters I have saved. Did not read ant but still massive tears.

Sale is today and tomorrow. It is hard to see your life on sale. Lots of his stuff too. So, he has been around. Hard to see him. He told a friend I should get a boyfriend as I would feel better. Jerk, how could I even consider that. Wish she would not have told me. She passed on lots of affair fog babble, "I still love her (me)", "this is as hard on me as it is her", "greatful for my new love" , "wish I had talked to her (me) 2 years ago, maybe we could have saved the marriage", blah, blah, blah. I asked her not to tell me what WH says anymore.

Have a phone interview next week for a great job. Mixed feelings, but would be the right thing to do so am trying to focus on that.

Been reading the Bible a lot and attending church every week. That helps but also makes me cry when I see my failings, but is still a positive in my life.

Remembering Churchill - "when going through hell, keep going". He did not say you couldn't cry while you were going.

This is the perfect outlook, noone. I promise you this will get better if you keep walking yourself out of this. Good luck on your interview!!

I predict you will feel an amazing difference if you move out of that house and get into a more positive environment.

What fun things are you doing to keep your spirits up?

noone, I just read this with alarm and am unsure of what this pastor is advising. It would LESSEN your chance of reconciliation if you stayed in contact with your husband. The pastor, while he means well, has no earthly idea how to deal with infidelity. Dr Harley DOES. Staying in contact with your H makes you less attractive and only serves to wear you down emotionally and physically.

Please do not follow his advice because it won't get your husabnd back and will just make it so much worse for you.

He could use some of Dr.Harley's materials. As a pastor, he is privy to infidelity frequently and has no idea how to treat it.

The worse affair-recovery advice my wife and I got came from well-meaning but totally ignorant clergy. Most pastors do not know how to recover from affairs.

Thank you all for you replies. I know you are right. While I have not initiated any contact, just taking his words to heart have been a big part of my current state. I need to just b go back to looking forward- I can not make WH want to recover. I have to focus on making me well and whole.

I am sure I will continue to needs reminders of this, it is still very hard. I spoke to another cousin tonight, which really helped. Mom too!

Thank you again. I know I will feel better sticking with MB advice. It has been the only thing to really help during all this.

To stronger days.....

A lighting bolt out of the blue last night! Got a text from IM (she is out of the country on vacation at the moment). Seems WH contacted her saying A is over, he wants to work on marriage, he still loves me very much and misses me in his life.

She say she did her best to try to figure out if he means it or is just trying to get contact or is just being a jerk to me (her words). She said she believes him and that is why she passed it on to me. WH wants to go on a date Friday- go see a movie.

What do I do? I was really thinking it was over and he had moved on.

On a related note, the interview went really well today. I should know something by mid- november. The potential date does not change any of my plans.

Thanks for any advice!

I will leave the advice to the experts here, but so happy for you. I would love to be in your position and sincerely hope it all works out for you. Best wishes.

That's a nice statement to make but not quite up to par. He'll need to agree to do much more than "work on the marriage". That's vague and kinda meaningless in and of itself.

You need to present him with the checklist of items from SAA. After that he will need to agree to the MB program of recovery to rebuild the romantic portion of your marriage.

If he balks on any of that, he isn't serious. In that case, return to your dark Plan B.

Settling for anything less would be a big mistake on your part.

This. What you wrote to him in your PBL. Stick to your guns on that. Warning! You will be very tempted to compromise if he suggests modifying your conditions in some way. Don't start out right off the bat by lowering the bar!

This is perfect advice. I hope he didn't tell your IM something like "how can find out if we want to work on the marriage if we aren't talking" or some such crap, which is not a committment at all.[that is typically the first offer from a WS and all it means is that your Plan B is working and they just want to have open contact without meeting your conditions]

DO NOT GO OUT ON A DATE WITH HIM. You can meet with him and show him the checklist. He would need to agree to change all of his contact information and PROVE that he is never in contact with OW again. If he says something lame like "you just have to trust me," tell him that won't cut it. You can only trust what you can see iwth your own eyes.

Let him SELL YOU and only accept a great offer that meets all your conditions.

Do NOT tell him about Marriage Builders yet. Give him the checklist without the introduction (via your intermediary). Only if he agrees to ALL THE TERMS IN THE CHECKLIST, should you agree to meet him. If he tries to negotiate, reiterate your plan B letter and go dark again.

YEs!! Do not lower your standards while you have all the leverage or you will lose your leverage.

AND DO NOT be discouraged if this is a false alarm, because it only means this is his first offer.

You should add moving to the checklist too.

Remember he needs to WIN you back by being an AWESOME husband. Don't settle for mediocrity.

Thank you, just what I needed to hear.

The text from my IM was short but I reflected the wording in her message. Not sure how he said any of it- she is following the rule about rewriting his messages. I had warned her about some of the BS he might try and she read the thread here so I think she would weed that out, but that might be wrong.

I wrote the checklist to give to WH. My IM is gone for 3 more weeks. I want to meet him on Friday to give him the list and see for myself how he reacts. Not a date, a meeting. But, since that is what I want to do, I suspect that is not right.

I will not lower the bar. I have come too far to slide back now. I will not negotiate my checlklist. I included moving.

That is exactly the right thing to do. Meet with him and gauge his sincerity. Ask what he will do to ensure the OW never enters your lives again. Don't make any commitments. Just tell him you want to take it slow and will think on it and get back to him.

Grrrrrr-WH just texted and said "I am sorry I can't do it"(meet that is). Then why the h*** did he ask???

The rollercoaster is horrible.

Guess I now know he is not serious. Here's hoping I get that job I I interviewed for. I think moving will be helpful.

Trying not to cry or get down about it. Must move forward but it is very hard tonight. Guess I was more excited and hopeful than I knew. That needs to stop.

I am very sorry, noone.

Please focus on staying as dark as possible until you can get moved away. Then the bar will be raised for him to get back in. The next time, he will have to jump through hoops to make this happen.

If he makes another move towards reconciliation, maybe I can help your IM in determining if he is sincere? It sounds like she did everything possible and could not have foreseen this outcome, but together we could devise some questions to really test him.

Honestly, i would not consider meeting with him until after the move. Then he would have to travel, book a hotel, etc. Then your IM could require proof of travel arrangements prior to you agreeing to meet.

I was thinking the same thing as apples. The IM could just say that you would be willing to meet if he traveled to your new location. He wouldn't even need to show proof of travel, he would just have to show up.

I'd want him to put money and effort into planning the trip to prove sincerity.

WH has told me that A is over and have heard the same from his friends. He has not asked to move back in (not that I am ready for that either) and still out of the house. I have not made any attempt to verify status of A.

He knows my requirements for recovery (EPs,etc)and does not have issues with them. But, he does not seem ready to start, and I think is still wondering if our marriage is worth another shot. I have not pushed.

I have been trying to get out more but that has resulted in running into him when out with friends. I have chosen not to run and hide but stay with my firends. He used to leave when he saw me, but the last couple of week or so that has changed and he tries to engage. Lots of sweeties, hons, mammas ( an early term of affection from at favorite band) and what friends think is an attempt to get reconnect. From what I know WH told some of his close friends he loves me and misses me.

I have not engaged him but feel a thaw toward me. He stacks firewood on my deck when I am not home so I do not have to walk all the way to the wood shed. He has also been asking IM if there is anything else he can do for me. He is being a better husband now than the last year or so.

He leaves Sat for 4 to 6 weeks of fishing, camping, visiting his parents/family 3000+ miles from here. Frankly, I expect he is also seeing POSOW while he is in her next of the woods. But, that is not something he said, just my expectaion. Not sure I even want to know.

He is interested in coming over tonight to show me how to switch over to generator power for a power outage- which would be helpful. We also need to talk about getting the house on the market quickly in case I get that job. We have some business stuff that needs addressing as well.

I guess I am wondering if I should be more open to his reaching out. I could also just be setting myself up. Hard to trust my own judgment.

Do I see him or send it back to IM (out of the country)? Any advice for dealing with this?

I would stop this contact immediately.m It will make you sick and it also makes you unattractive to be so available. What happened to cause you to break Plan B? You were doing so good!

Shut this down. Have him contact the IM if he has any pertinent information.

"I have not engaged him but feel a thaw toward me. He stacks firewood on my deck when I am not home so I do not have to walk all the way to the wood shed. He has also been asking IM if there is anything else he can do for me. He is being a better husband now than the last year or so. "

He sucks as a husband. He is having an affair and has abandoned his marriage for it. He has treated you horribly and is doing nothing to rectify it. He stacked the wood because he feels guilty. It was for him, not you. If he were a decent husband he would move heaven and earth to get you back.

He would certainly not be going away for 6 weeks.

No one, do not have any contact with him at all unless he BEGS to get you back on bender knee. If he won't do that, he is not worth it. It is vitally important that you shut him down entirely. He has taken you for granted for a very long with your help. It has made you very unattractive over time. You need to raise the price of admission. He won't pay a very high price to get you back, he can go to hell.

Thank you all. Just the shot of backbone I needed.

It is so easy to want it so bad and thinking that I will never be loved again that I lose sight of what he did and that I deserve better. I will have no contact today and by tomorrow it will be a mute point.

I also have some time off which will give me a chance to do something fun without fear of running in to him.

I will try to post more often to be sure I keep my resolve in place. Hopefully I will have a new job far away by the time he comes back.

Good girl!!! I am sure your husband wants the old arrangement where you hung around on the sidelines to keep him company. You are way too valuable for that and if he wants back in he will have to pay a high price! If you think you will run into him somewhere, DONT GO THERE!!! Stay pitch, pitch dark.

WH has been on his trip for just over a week. BIL and SIL are gone as well. That has made being here much easier. So far, I feel pretty good. I am surprised.

It has been cold here (-12F tonight) which means it is hard to get outside as much. I think this is why I got a bit down and started to panic a little tonight so thought I would post.

I also just made an appointment at the beauty shop for Tuesday and dinner with girlfriend wednesday. That should help.

Nothing on the job front yet 😕. Government moves slow but this is pretty slow.

I do miss him and still love him. Sometimes I wish that were not ture -it seems it would be easier that way.

Yesterday and today have really been hard. All I can think about is WH. I am sure he is with POSOW. I have no proof but it is a safe bet.

I got so hopeful with his seeming interest in working on things that even through he was not offering enough, I guess I was hoping it was just a first attempt and we were on the right track.

But, if that were true, he would try to contact me while he is gone. If he cared he would show it. IM said she has received nothing from him.

I know it is my fault for getting my hopes up. But it kills me picturing him laughing, and cuddling with her while I cry. He has that connection again with someone that makes you feel alive while I can only mourn my loss of that. I keep telling myself I deserve better but that does really help anymore.

Have dinner with some friends tonight, hope that helps. Thanks for letting me vent-it keeps me from angry texting or calling WH.

I'm sorry noone. Have you read other Plan B-ers threads? Your pain won't last forever. You did the right thing by not accepting his crumbs.

Please don't ask your IM if he has contacted her, it won't help you to feel better. The only time that your IM should let you know anything is if and when your husband has agreed to all of your conditions.

Enjoy your dinner with friends.

Not much going on or changing. It has still been hard. For some reason, I only seem to be remembering the good things and feeling incredibly guilty over everything I did to bring us to this point. Random tears but i seem to be able to hold it together at work.

I try to keep thinking better days are ahead and that works for a bit. Then I get sad again. Today I found out I did not get that job for which I interviewed. Bummmer. However, I am hopeful that i will at least get an interview for a job in MT. Still far away-heck, almost everything is far from Alaska.

WH is still gone. Will not be back until the 15th, so I have some time to get myself together and ready for the occasional small town run in.

I really want to call just to hear his voice. But I know he would not answer, I would feel worse and be more unattractive to him.

Any advice for dealing with everyone else's opinion on what I should do and how I should feel. I know they all mean well but I don't need their baggage, I have plenty of my own.

Thanks to everyone for being here, I read all the posts on the other threads and it does seem to help, for that I am gratful.

May God bless you all.

Tell them it hurts you deeply to even think about so you will not discuss it; they are to keep their thoughts about you-know-who to themselves. If they persist, perform an about face and walk out on them mid-sentence.

What are you doing this week to feel good?

Hi noone, sorry you are feeling badly. If you can stay completely dark from him [no run-in's, nothing] you will feel better, sooner. Every time you run into him, it puts you back to day 1 of withdrawal. This is why it is so critical to remain completely dark in Plan B.

The very best thing that could happen to you is moving away completely to get away from him and out of that environment. Then if he wants to reconcile, he can follow you to the new town that is not tainted with bad memories and triggers. A place where the OW does not visit. And if he is not willing to do that, then he is not serious.


You are at this place because your husband is having an affair and because he is not interested in repairing your marriage. You were fully willing to take the necessary steps to fix this. HE WAS NOT. You have nothing to feel guilty about.


Exactly. So if anyone gives you the bad advice to seek him out, just remind yourself of the reality. They don't have to deal with the pain and rejection, YOU DO.

Thank you all for the replies.

As for what I am doing to feel good this week, I am going to town this weekend and do some shopping. I do not have anyone to go with me, but I will be fine on my own. I will take my dog with me for company. I have been eating well and exercising more. That is good.

I agree I need to get out of here. Heck, everyday on my way to and from work, I pass the place OW worked. After so long in a place, everything is a trigger. We built the house I live in together,not only does the stuff in the house remind me of him, but every stud is a memory.

I will do my best to avoid WH when he gets back. But we are a town of less than 500 people, one way in and out, not even a street light or fully paved roads. It also means everyone knows everything about your business. So, I think about what everyone must be thinking everything they see me. I know I need to get over that but it is hard.

I think part of it is that it it winter in Alaska. Dark, cold, snowy, icy and very quiet. Summer we are busy with tourists but even locals like to get out in winter.

Two of my firends are out of town and the other one is having some struggles of her own so that is also part of it.

I need to just stop thinking about everything and stop thinking about him. I think I will work on a list of topics to think about when I start to think about him or our situation.

If anyone has other suggestions for getting WH out of my thoughts, please let me know.

Thanks again for everything.

MOVE!!!

I am making progress on that!

Meet with a realtor. She suggested I do a few things before getting it on the market. So, I am working on that list.

She encouraged me to wait until Feb or March to list as nothing really sells here until then and it would be best to wait to list so it does not become a "stale" listing. I have never bought or sold a house so I do not really know if she is right, but she comes highly recommmended.

I will see where we are when this list is complete. Our neighbor just sold this summer and it sold in about a month. Same realtor. I am hopeful this house will sell quickly as well. It should.

Can you rent it out now and sell it next summer?

I can try,there is not much demand this time of year. I am certain I have it rented starting in April, if it is not sold by then.

Even if I do not list it with an agent now, I will spread the word and see if I can find a buyer. I just need to finish the checklist, which involves hiring help for somethings I can not do, like finish the trim.

Problem is, I have to go outside the local area because my WH is a local contractor and everyone local(not that there are many, and one is WH brother) is saying they feel uncomfortable working on "his" house, especially with him out of town and not knowing.

I have a few contractors/handymen from over 1.5 hours away working on bids right now but they are booked for next 6 or so weeks.

I will get it done. I will find someone that does not like my WH and will be willing to help. He had to make someone mad.

Thanks for the push. I have to say, I was worried posting might make me obsess on WH, but I feel much better now. Can't explain but am grateful!☺

Before entering Plan B, WH was really the only person that called my cell or texted me. So, after going into Plan B, every time my cell phone rings or I get a text, it causes a rush of anxiety that it might be WH.

It dawned on me last night that I automatically associate those ring tones with him.

So, I changed all my ring and text tones on my phone. What a differnce. Today when my phone rings, no anxiety and I do not jump to thinking of WH.

Wish I would have thought of this before. I did unblock WH long enough to give him the old ringtones. Then I blocked him again. Not sure why I felt that I and to do that but it might help if we ever get to a place we are talking again.

I have been doing quite well latley. But it is proving a tough night. So am posting to avoid doing something I will regret, like text WH.

He is back tomorrow afternoon. I have had this reoccurring nightmare that I am sitting at the table, he walks in says the last 5 weeks he has been with POSOW and he wants a divorce so they can get married. I was doing pretty good not letting it get to me. Today, I can't get it out of my head.

If nothing else this last 5 weeks, facing the Alaska winter alone and being just fine, has shown me, I am stronger than I knew and will survive. But I can't stop the tears.

I guess it comes down to this- I am not ready to give up on recovering our marriage and it will hurt if he is. But I will survive that too.

To help, I took tomorrow off of work and will head out of town for the day. Even if he comes here, I will be gone. Might stay overnight someplace and just come back for work on Wed. Will see how I feel tomorrow.

Thanks for being here to listen. It really helps.

Have you checked YouTube for videos of how to change the locks? It isn't hard. I think You would feel better if he can't jus
T walk in.

Oh I changed them when I kicked him out. I just forget to lock the doors when I am home. I know that sounds odd, but in my neck of the woods,that is the norm. I just need to be more diligent.

If he really wanted to tell me that, with a little effort he could run I to me and do it. I am taking steps to avoid him in town, but if he tried he could find me.

I am sure after he is back and a few days go by, I will be fine. I just took a long hot shower with a long prayer and feel stronger.

If I run into him somehow and he says what I fear, that is out of my control. I can only control my reaction which will be graceful and not hysterical.

No matter what it is just another step on a path leading to a better place -a recovered marriage or a new life. I just need to work on me and not worry about what I don't control. Easier said than done but a good goal.

Oh, good. I was worried he had access. Do something fun tomorrow!

Well, the hits just keep coming!

I was reading our company emais last night and saw an email from some I did not recognize. It was a note from a guy saying how nice it was to meet WH and "your significant other last week".

I guess I knew he was with POSOW but to have it confirmed was very hard. AnD for them to be out and about - he is still married to me. What a @#%&(/#@^%%.

Is it even worth the pain for fighting for my marriage? Is there any chance we can recover or should I file for D and move on?

Print and save that email.

Ugggh. Following MB will give you the best fighting chance to save your marriage.

But if you decide you do not want to save it, you are not obligated to try. He broke his vows to you. You owe him nothing.

Given this:

I would do some soul searching. You know his redeeming qualities, and what the magic was like with him when you both were in love.

No one can make that decision for you but I would say if you're fighting for your marriage, make sure it's because you really want him, not because you feel obligated to based on principle because, again, he broke the vows.

Also, on a totally unrelated, random note: Fun Fact. I hear there is a glut of men in relation to women in Alaska.

Well, I think that is true. But, our saying is "the odds are good but the goods are odd". Most the ladies I know believe in finding husbands outside Ak. But ya never know, right.

I do not really know what I want anymore. He has hurt me so bad. I can remeber how great it was and how in love we were. But if he is not willing to change our work on us, what is the point of me trying. I also have to remeber the bad, don't I? Frankly, I do not know if I can ever trust or believe him.

What if I keep trying and he does not. How do I move on and keep trying?

I think I will be better once I can move someplace without all the memories and triggers. I should be able o think more clearly.

My work situation has been hard for awhile but I thought he wanted to stay here and I wanted to be married, so I stayed. Not liking my job, I suspect, only makes this harder.

Thanks again for everything. If anyone has thoughts, ideas, suggestions or feedback, I am all ears.

I did. I understand AK is a no fault state and the assets are simply divided equatibly. I will keep the email. I also have pictures of the original text messages I found on his phone. Never know how it might help.

I am doing a better. Got some good counsel. Nothing has really changed except I know he is still with POSOW instead of just suspecting. I am in Plan B already, I just stay as is. I don't have to do anything else, expect work on me and moving.

I think it was harder to see that email the night before he returned to town. That was hard all around.

Having drinks with some girl firends tomorrow or friday. Leaving to see family in the lower 48 Tuesday and gone for about 12 days. That should help as well.

Now, if my stomach will calm down so I can eat, I will be good.

Well things can turn on a dime.

Got a message from my IM early yesterday. WH came to see her and said he loves me and will do whatever I want /need make our marriage work. He said A is overe for good (his choice). He showed some texts from POSOW and IM she beleived he ended it as OW is not taking his decision well. Bottom line, he wanted to talk to me.

Not sure I did right, but I meet him yesterday. I just need to look in his eyes to see if I think he is being true.

He said he is in love with me, knows what he did was wrong, said multiple times ( with tears) how sorry he was for how badly he treated me. He said he wants to grow old with me. That while he was gone he made this decision but has known in his heart his behavior was wrong. He will go anywhere with me, gave me all passwords and handed me his phone. He also said he wants our marriage to be better than when we first got married and that he wants to be my husband and make me happy.

I can't look at the phone or anything else yet, I am not strong enough to see anything from or about POSOW.

I will say he seemed like the guy I used to know. I know this sounds odd, but the look in his eye seemed different. Or, maybe I just want that to be the case. This is like a lighting bolt out of a clear blue sky.

I just listened mostly yesterday. Trying to process. He did say we could write a break-up letter to POSOW and I can send it. That is the only thing I really asked, my mind was spinning.

So, what do I do now?

Thank you!

I would take it very slow. first off, he will need to CHANGE his phone # so the OW can't reach him EVER. He should give you his phone to keep and he can get another one. If she calls him the affair will be on again and you cannot take that chance. If she is going to be coming there every summer, I would get moved out of that state before summer. You and he have to remove any opportunity for future contact, because I guarantee you it will all start up again unless you take extraordinary precautions.


REAL IMPORTANT ---------> I would let him know that "growing old" with him is not what you want. What you want and need is a romantic, passionate relationship. You can have all this if you will follow this program for recovery. If he won't do these things, then you can look forward to a crippled version of the pre-affair marriage and your resentment will grow and thrive with each passing year. And he will have more affairs. Trust me on this. You can recover your marriage and have a fantastic, happy marriage or you go through years of hell if you don't follow the basic concepts.

Another few things:

1. he needs to tell you everything about his affair. When was the last time he saw her? He should answer each and every question you have, holding nothing back. Once he has satisfied your questions, it should not be brought up again

2. here


[from SAA, pg 58]

OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely, XXXXX

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

Got it, my checklist.

He called to see if he could come by for coffee. We agreed he will change his number on Monday. For now, we have switched phones. He left me his computer (he purchased this on his trip).

He agreed to the template letter. Working on that.

He agreed to answer any question I had. I promised that we would only do that one time and then not discuss again so we can move forward. I told him that I am not quite ready for that conversation and want time to think about my questions. I want to find out what I need to get beyond it but not so much my head fills with a picture I can't shake.

He agreed to the rest of the list. All bank statements ad credit card bills come to me, even his personal ones. I will pull his credit again to be sure I am not missing something.

I will put that software on his phone so I can see everything he keys. I also want to hide a VAR in his truck. Is it wrong not to tell him? I worry if he knows, he will just work around the technology.

He wants to do something together this afternoon. I already have dinner plans with a girlfriend tonight and am not changing that.

He wants to go out on a date Monday and wants to take me to the airport for my trip.

I made moving from here non-negoiatable-I am moving and he agreed to move with me.

I talked about recovering our marraige and that takes 100% effort from both of us. I spoke in general ideas what the MB program does and he was glad I did not want to go to a counselor and seemed to like what he heard about MB.

I was thinking we just take is slow and spend time together until I leave. Then be sure we still feel this way and start on the recovery path after the new year. Is that ok?

Great!!


Do not EVER tell him about any spy resources. NEVER.





It sounds like he is fully willing to do everything you ask so I don't see any reason to wait. ARe you hesitant to have him move back now and start working on recovery?

Also put spyware on his computer while you have it.

Get the GPS. Don't tell him he agreed to transparency but he does not need to know your methods.

Note: I've become disappointed with AT&It's Family maps so I have order a US Fleet PT class tracker. Go ahead and put the cell service tracker on today so You know he is doing what he said but plan to get something more accurate.

AAlso, why isn't he going wiith you on this trip? He should be monitored.

Thanks for all the feedback!

Got it- don't tell him.

ML- my concern is avoiding overnight seperation. Can't cancel on my mom now. And what if I do and the he backs out again.

BH- great idea on the spyware, currently installing.

Apples- will get the GPS on today while I find something better. He is not going because I did not ask him. This was planned while in was I Plan B. Back in Sept we were planning to visit our families (they live close to each other) together. The he told me hid did not want me to go with hime and things went down hill from there. So, I decided to visit my family's for Christmas. I could ask him but, he has worked lined up and after everything we have been through latley, not sure how my families would behave toward him.

Thank you all again ,very helpful and I think I am starting to feel more positive about our outcome.

noone, what I would suggest is that you cancel your Christmas plans and stay there and fix your marriage. You should be living together. Your marriage has to come first.

OR, have him come with you. I would address it like this:

"if we are going to do this, then the last thing I want to do is spend my Christmas alone for the first time in XXX years. Lets do this right and figure out a way to spend Christmas together. I want to start this off on the right foot."

Your are right.

I think I will invite him. We could visit his family as a couple, he visited alone on Thanksgiving.

I will do it tonight.

I am so glad you all are here. I would not have a shot at this without you!

He can also apologize to your family for hurting you and tell them what he plans to do to make this up to them. Christmas would be the perfect time!

When you have your question and answer session, i would ask him how their affair ended.

Such great news! Yes, hopefully he will come with you on your trip. The two of you should not be apart now.

I asked him to go to with me. He was very happy I asked and had been thinking about it before I asked. Said he had even considered doing that while he was travelling and told his brother he might be back shortly after Christmas.

He said he has a few meeting with potential clients set up for people that are coming to town for Christmas. So, he would not be able to leave on Tuesday but is looking at coming after Christmas and being there with me.

I knew of the meetings, so I do think that is true (saw the emails in our company email account).

I said that the other option is cancelling until he can go. He felt strongly that I should see my mom now. She is 75 and having more and more health issues. He thinks I should be there for this Chrismtas in case I do not get another chance. He said he will do want he can to be there with me as much as he can.

ML, that question is first on my list! He did say that the template letter was along the same vain. Maybe that is why he was ok with sending it.

If he does come, say a day or so after Christmas, do you think that works?

No, he needs to be there. I am unimpressed with a man who can galavant away from home for about 2 months but now cant take two extra days to be with his wife. Your marriage should be priority number one. He needs to reschedule his meetings.

Remember that you have to see, approve, and YOU mail the NC Letter so that YOU know that the letter was not only sent but that the letter that was sent was the letter that you saw and approved.

Dr Harley says no nights apart. What part of NO do you not understand is it the N or the O? Or is it when you put the N and the O together?

NO means NO.

You tell your WH no more nights apart ever. The both of you will leave together as soon as his appointments are finished. Stand firm.

Idea: is it possible to change your trip by a few days? I have to work right up to Christmas also. My H and I have decided to have a romantic Christmas for two before flying to visit family the day after. Would something like that work for you?

We realize these plans can be difficult to xan be difficult this close to the holiday, but this could be the Christmas you save your marriage.

Also, if you are moving, should he be meeting with new clients at your current location? Would it make more sense to start looking for work/clients at the new location?

I have a bad feeling about this. Where is the OW?

In Alaska, I would guess construction is VERY seasonal, occuring mostly in summer when OW is there. Since he used his variable work schedule to hide the affair, Y'all need to be out of there before Spring is over. (Honestly, I'd have trouble with any job allowing so much unaccounted for time IIWY.)

Me too. Who has construction meetings on Christmas eve and Day?

You are all right. This is more important.

I just talked to him about it. Told him that it is very important to me that we follow the plan and not be apart. That his original answer was concerning about our ability to recover.

He seemed to genuinely feel bad and said he did want to do anything to put us at risk. He also said that he was gratful I said something about it and that I need to be sure to keep telling him these things as we begin this journey- we both need to-so he can give me what I need to be happy and I can do the same for him.

So, he is currently rescheduling his 23rd and 26th meetings to after the trip. In the winter, he does mostly custom concrete countertops. That is what these meetings were.

Anyway, I am looking for a ticket for him that gets him in the same day I get there. Return is easier, not same flight but close.

Now, I need to tell my family. Any suggestions how I can tell them in a way that might help them be supportive? They have had the brunt of my tears, so it might be hard for them.

As far as I know POSOW is in WA. We will be staying far from there!

Apples-Funny you should mention being out of here by Spring. He suggested the same thing so he could be somewhere new to start working for the 2016 construction season. He is looking for jobs in a few states we are interested in.

We are getting closer to be ready to list the house. And, I found out Wednesday, the hiring official for a job in MT is doing reference checks on me. Maybe we will be out of here before Spring if that works out!

yeah!!! Tell your family that he has returned on bended knee and asked to reconcile. Tell them that you have set pretty strict conditions and he has agreed to them all. I would also tell your husband that it will go a long way if he uses this opportunity to apologize to your family. He has put them through hell too and he can now assure them that he will not hurt you anymore.

Great advice. Told both my parents like you suggested and they were good with it. My mom is the matriarch of her family so everyone else should be easy and she had them filled in in less than 15 minutes.

Now I need to tell my cousins on my Dad's side and hope it goes as well.

We are going to surprise his parents.

Ticket secured and we are ready.

This feels pretty good.

SO VERY HAPPY FOR YOU!!!!

I am so super super happy and hopefull for you. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!!!

I can not thank all of you enough. Things are going very well on our vacation together.

Spending 24 hrs a day together has given us a lot to time for meaningful conversations and do fun things together. That has helped both of us feel much closer.

He said he last saw POSOW the day before he flew back. He said he told her that he could not "do this anymore" and that he was going back to me to work on the marriage. Not exactly MB w�rthy, but it seemed to make her a little crazy according to H. In any case, I wrote and he signed the template MB letter ending it, I mailed it before I left.

POSOW has called and texted him, but I had the phone and she was blocked. Guess she figured that out so is now calling BIL and SIL and throwing a fit. BIL told H about it and he told me. Since she is their BFF, I fear BIL and SIL are taking her side - no proof, just a hunch. Hopefully that is not the case. But, neither one said a word to me during this, just one snotty reply to E. Yet another reason to move.

I have been checking spyware, just in case and so far so good. I have seen some very nice messages about us to other people which makes me feel good.

He did say he still thinks about her on occasion but that happens less each day and he seems to see a light at the end of the tunnel. I know from this site, he is like a drug addict going through withdrawls, so this is not unexpected. But, we are moving in the right direction.

I hope everyone had a wonderful Christmas.

Happy New Year!

Looks like I was a bit of a fool. When it came time to fly back to Alaska, H did not come with me. I delayed my return as much as I could but he did not come and did not know when he would be ready to come back. I had to choose between losing my job (I am sole support for us, he is making zero) or come back alone.

Since I came back about 2 weeks ago, we had been talking, texting, FaceTiming and doing ok. I told myself we were just not reconciling and more like a weird Plan a. Then last Friday, I got a normal text text from him about 11 am then nothing. No response to my two texts and two calls. Even after a 7.1 earthquake close enough that the house was rocking like nothing I have ever seen!

I called him on Monday about 2pm, he answers and acts normal. I had just found out I did not get the job I MT so I was upset, he was nice but was working with his dad at a job site so could not say much. Said he would call later.

Did not call until this morning. Acts filpent and friendly. I said I missed him very much and he said something like- that must be hard. I said something about oh you don't miss me, I see. He laughed and said what a jerk he was. He was nice and friendly but not husband like.

Needless to say the double whammy has me back in tears. I know I strayed from MB by being apart. I had to either pay our bills or quit my job when he is not making any money other than a few bucks with his dad.

On top of all this, I ran over his phone when we were on vacation so I no longer have tracking or snooping ability.

He is at his parents house. Looks like he may have a concrete countertops job down there and a led on another one. So, he is planning to stay as long as he has work.

Not sure is OW is back in the picture or not. If he is not going to try then does it matter?

I know I messed up. What do I do now?

Hoping the vets drop by.

noone, I am so sorry to read this. You most certainly are not a fool! I would go back into a dark Plan B and just stay separated. I don't think he is serious at all.

So sorry, dear.

So sorry. I agree you need to get into Plan B.

Here How to Plan B Correctly

Thank you, I know you are right- I knew that was the answer, I just needed to hear it. It should not be too hard. He has not tried to get in touch with me for a bit. Will work on finding an IM. I will ask my original first, but I think she will say no.

On a positive note, got a call from a high level person from the place I applied I MT. Seems the person they hired for the job I wanted already worked there. So her position is now open and the would love to hire me for it. So, I will apply when it comes out but sounds do like I have a good shot. I just might get out of here!

Trying to focus on me. Having a healthy living challenge at work. I am on our office 4 person team which is good and very supportive.
Walking the dog more, which is good for both of us.

My one regular dinner firend has left the state and is not returning. So, I think it's time to find new friends. Hard when I am thinking about moving asap, but I am lonley and need to get out more.

The job sounds so promising. Do you have a Plan B Letter written?

Hmm, no new plan B letter, just the one I originally gave him. Was planning to text or leave him a voice mail saying so and so will be his contact if he needs to talk to me per my letter.

Do I need a new one?

I think you will be fine this way. hugs to you, friend...

No, I agree the original one should be good.

I feel like something is starting to change in me. I am still sad about my WH's choices and very hurt. And bad moments happen. I went to the dr. The other day and the nurse said " oh, you are WH's woman". Totally caught off guard- all I could do not to breakdown.

But I am starting to think about what makes me happy, what my future without him might look like and am feeling more upbeat about it.

For the first time since this whole mess began, I am starting beleive I deserve to be treated better than this and even alone, better is out there. Not just lip service but really believing it.

WH had not tired to make contact since Wed. Still looking for an IM but don't expect he wants any contact so not stressing it yet.

I started going to work 1/2 hour earlier to take a longer lunch so i can take my dog for good walk at lunch. It is also staying light long enough after work to get her out again. I think that is helping both of us.

Thanks for being here. I hope the upward then in how I am feeling continues, it would be nice to cry less for awhile- a long while.

It will get better if you stay on the path. And yes of course you deserve way better.

WH texted me this morning saying he is flying back to AK tonight(and of course the he hoped I was doing well- right, like he cares). I suspect he is picking up some tools for the small counter top project he picked up.

The upside is I think I found an IM. She wants to read the information on what that means. But, if it was want I described, she is in. That should be firmed up tomorrow.

Until then, I will not contact him ... yikes he is calling now, right now. I ignored it.

I am feeling strong and think I can do plan b better this time! Please send any extra strength you have my way- think I will need it the next week or so.

Stay strong. You can do it. And yes plan B is hard. My IM has finally figured it out and its working out good. It stinks having no contact because I can't help wondering his state of mind. But I finally figured out...the hard way...that continued contact while WH is still in A...it hurts. IM is awesome for that.

Send your IM the training link in the Plan B thread I posted to you.

How are you doing?

Thanks BH, I did send her that. I think she will do it.

I am ok. Wh showed up at my house last night to pick up his truck. Today I came home from work for lunch to walk my dog and she is gone, front door wide open, heat blaring (it is about 20 outside). So, in a panic I called Wh, he has the dog. Guess I forgot to lock the front door as there was not a break in or anything.

I just could not help myself while I had him on the phone so I asked if he was seeing her again. He said no. I asked if he was seeing anyone else, he said no. But, does not know if he wants to work on the marriage.

That is it, no more talking to him. I will go beg my IM to agree so I can have her take over for me.

Grrrr. This sucks.

Really irked at how callous and cruel he is. Why did he put you through all this if he was not sure? So he could enjoy Christmas with you? if so, that really sucks.

Have you filed for divorce?

I have not filed---yet. But I have been thinking about it. Well, actually legal seperation. AK has that and I have been told that it is a good step, particularly considering that we have a business togther. It is also a smaller easier step and does not seem so scary.

Anyone have any thoughts on legal seperation vs filing for divorce?

My atty told me the cost is the same and serves the same purpose as a divorce...but a good step in order to freeze assets if on the fence about divorce...at least your financials are protected.

I would strongly encourage you to file for divorce and just separate your lives in every way, especially the business. Filing separation drags the pain out unnecessarily and actually ends up costing more in the end. With a divorce you have the best of 2 options, he either gets on board [which he has demonstrated numerous times already that he won't] or you end up divorced. Both are good outcomes, because if he won't get on board, you will be divorced.

Just wanted to give a little update. Wh is still with his parents out of state. I just got a 3 month job in MT. At the end I come back to my current job. There is also a chance it can become permanent.

Still have good and bad days. But was doing pretty dang well. For some reason making plans to leave has made me sad again. I should be happy but I guess I had hoped he might come back. But he knows when I leave and is not expected to be back in town by then. That should tell me all I need to know right? Why can't I convince my heart?

I will also miss my dog terribly - she has been a lifesaver and we have grown quite attached. A friend will watch her so it is temporary, she can move with me if I get the job for good. But still hard.

Thanks for all your help and support.

Well, it's over. Wh is not willing to try so we are ending it. I start a short term job in MT in 2 weeks so the timing is poor but will get done what needs doing.

I am sorry it is ending this way but also gratful for an ending. I will take some time and work on me so I can find love- real love.

I am leaving the marriage with my head held high thanks to everyone here, I can not thank you enough. I would be a wreck right now if not for you all.

I am sure I will need the divorce support board now but am not as bad as I thought I would be at this point.

Are you still in Plan B?

I am, brianHurts- thank you. We had this "conversation" via IM. But, he is done and does not think he has blame-all my fault. I suspect he is seeing her again. But, not my concern much longer.

Really glad to leave this town and house for awhile. And hopefully for good. I keep applying for jobs in case this one is am trying does not work. I will get out of here for good asap.

Thanks again for all the support!

Thanks for the update, noone. I am glad you are getting out. GEtting out gives you a great chance at a happy future.

I agree noone, you deserve so much better.

Thank you both! I am feeling much better and getting excited to go to some place new.

It will be very hard to leave my dog, she has been a lifesaver. But she is in good hands and I will take her if this becomes permanent so, it will be fine. It is only 100 days. I can do anything for 100 days, well almost anything I guess.

What an exciting new path you will be taking. Keep us updated.

I have made it to my new temporary home. This is a downright spectacular place.

I find myself saying how much WH would like this or that and I start to cry. I am pretty lonley but I start work tomorrow which will help.

I have gone out to eat a few times but the look on the host's face when I say a table for one can be soul crushing. The first night the very nice young man said "really?".

I know it will get better, but it is hard now. When going through hell, keep going, right?

I have some great friends back home that encourage me to call them when I am lonely, which is very nice, but it can be hard for those that have not walked in my shoes to understand.

I have stayed stong and not contacted WH except about taxes via the IM.

Thanks for being heree and giving me a place to get this all out, it really helps.
To better days!

Good! Once you get a routine, it will be easier. BrainHurts posted this link to radio shows on triggers, In the second segment of the the first show Dr. Harley explains perfectly why you shouldn't keep talking about your problems. And he gives advice how to take your mind off things. The goal is learning from mistakes from the past, not dwell on them, so you can focus on the present and future.
You don't need to discuss your situation with your friends, hanging out with friends will help you take your mind of your problems. They only need to understand they should be pleasant company for you and not talk about your H.

You cannot "not think" of something, but you can occupy yourself with something different, so your mind has no time to go over and over the situation. Plan B is for your sanity.

Thank you Goody2shoes, I know you are right. Frankly, I think my friends are better about not talking about him than I am and that is why it seems they do not understand. Perhaps they understand better than I do!

I just need to keep myself busy and I think that will help stop the tears and thoughts of him!

Just a quick update- doing MUCH better. New routines, new place and new faces that know nothing about WH. One bad day last week but got over it quick. Not talking about WH helps but I think a whole new routine is the key. Also being very social- at least for me. Going out with frinds 2 to 3 times a week. It is great.

A good friend told me that I have a right to my feelings and can be upset --- for 15 seconds. 😀 if I text her that I am doing badly, she replies: "you have 15 secondo go!". It works - hard not to chuckle and then she let's me know when 15 seconds is over and she changes the topic.

I found a lawyer which is a big relief. I think I am actually starting to feel hopeful. Even lost 10 ponds.

Here is to continued better days!

Thanks for the awesome update!!

Definitely better days!!!!

Well, today is my 17th wedding anniversary. And I am surprised by how well I did. I went to church, had a 1+ hour call with a great friend and got a deluxe mani-pedi. All in all a good day. I then followed it up with a nice dinner I cooked myself and glass of wine.

Last friday I interviewed for anoher job in Flordia and it is between me and one other person. The job I am in now in Montana ends on July 8 and I would go back to Ak. Of course this job may be offered permenaelty too and I could apply. Right now, I am just praying that I am on His path and that way I know I will make the right move.

Thank you all for helping to get me to such a healthy place. I still have the occasional bad day but they are fewer and fewer. I feel I can hold my head high and look myself in the mirror beacuse I tried everthing I could to save my marraige and for that i will always be grateful to all of you.

You did the hard work, my friend. So glad to hear the update and glad your personal recovery is going well. Stay the path and I am glad to hear that you know the bad days will be less and less.

Just wanted to give an update. I am doing so much better. My bad days are few and far between these days. Being in a different state has really help I think.

One that note, I accepted a new job in Florida. About as far from Alaska as I can get. I wanted a big change and I got it. So I head back home this Sunday and head south early July.

I have struggled recently as I lost my 4 yr old rottweiler to cancer last Sunday (yup, Father's Day). She was my rock and was a large part of me surviving the last year. I will rebound but it is very hard to lose her.

Thanks again for all you help and support. On to even better days!

I'm so sorry to hear about the loss of your dog. Glad to hear how you are healing.

noone, thanks for the update. So sorry to hear about your dog, but glad to hear you are doing well in the rest of your life!

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

I made the big move-Alaksa to Florida. About 2 months after I got here, WH arrived wanting to reconcile. I was so desperate and lonley (no Internet or TV where I was staying), that i jumped on his offer.

The first month was great! However, to no one'surprise it went down hill very quickly. Nothing I did-expensive weekend get aways, catering to his every whim, giving him cash-made him happy.

He left me almost 3 weeks ago (was only here about 8 weeks). I feel so stupid for even giving him a chance. If any new folks are reading listen to the folks here and DO NOT follow my path.

It is not as bad as the last time, but still hurts. I am very lonley. He wants to "hurry up and get this done"-charming fella.

Guess it is time to be moved over to the divorcing board?

Thank you all for being here!

ugh, I am so sorry to hear this.

So sorry noone. Has he left the state for good? Is your divorce final?

He has left the state- about 3 weeks ago. The divorce is just getting started. Sigh.

Problem is, I am not sure we can file anywhere. We are no longer in AK, I have to be in FL for 6 months before I can file. WH is in CA, I do not what they require.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Man he is a jerk! He called from his parents house which I did not have blocked (but do now!). Seems he is living there. Almost 50 and living with your parents,that will get the girls.

He said he is working on the paperwork to file for divorce and told me he wants half of pretty much everything and to except papers to sign in the next two weeks or so.

He never paid a bill in the last 10+ years, I scrimp and save to support us and now he wants half. He always had money he made from the business but spent that an hunting trips, beer, going out to lunch everyday and other fun stuff for him. He had the affair not me! He even took a year long vacation on money from selling a bunch of our stuff and did not share any of that with me! Grrrrrr. Seems so unfair- his bad deeds should Count! I moved to Alaska because it was his dream not mine. I had a career in California but gave that up. Because I was able to start a new one and he chose to be a lazy beer drinking bum, I get the short end of the stick.

I was doing pretty good recently. How is it he can file in a state he is no longer living In? Man divorce sucks. Can't wait till this is over.

Oh,and after telling me what he is taking, he asked how I was. I told him it was none of this business. He seemed offended and the call ended quickly.

I hope that is the last time we speak.

You may be able to challenge that, ask your lawyer.


Sure does


Telling you what 'he would like to take' does not mean that you have to give it to him. Remember that possession is 9/10ths

I am looking for any tips on how to survive the divorce process. Man this hurts. I got a copy of the draft paperwork that WS completed. Guess there are some sections he wants me to fill out. I have not opened the email yet- I just can't. It has been tears all day.

On one hand leaving Alaksa was the right thing to do. I could not have survived there- too many memories. But, I don't know anyone here and feel very lonley. I adopted a dog and that helps a lot.

I have friends and family all giving advice- some say fight and do not give him one dime more than I have to and some say just get it over to move on. I just want it over but also do not want to kick myself by giving half of everything I have worked so hard to save. He spent everything he had and so looks flat broke. Amazing how much an affair Costs! Especially with plane fare and rental cars.

And why is it I keep thinking only about the good times and not the bad? I think it would be easier if I remembered more of the bad times!

Thanks for being here to listen. It sure does help!

How did you receive this information? Was this from your lawyer?

It's from the IM. She feels this is necessary to move forward.

Communications concerning assets should go through your attorney. if you have a choice of which state the divorce is filed in, make sure it is the one most advantageous to you. I used to live in a state in which affairs could result in a significant forfeiture of assets, such as no alimony. Some judges will also consider money spent on the affair in settlements. You won't know until you ask.

If you don't want to deal with, tell the IM he should send this to your attorney. It will cost more but may give you peace of mind.

Uggg. So sorry to hear all this. Like someone else said - possession is 9/10ths... Can you liquidate any money that he wants half of before he files? As for physical things - is he in Florida now? If not, how is he going to get these things? Can you have sold them and spent the money - wink wink?

All states have some sort of residency law. If you have any attorney you should definitely question this and see if there is any advantage to you filing first (if possible, FL has longer residency requirements than most.) But if he's lying about his residency maybe your attorney can challenge that.

My advice regarding how hard to fight for things is to put up a decent fight, but stop if it starts really getting the best of you. There is something to say for having it behind you and moving on, but please don't just roll over. When I divorced my ex (who I later learned had been a serial cheater all our marriage) I just let everything go. I told myself I was being mature, but now I realize I was just avoiding conflict and I feel I was pathetic and regret it very much. He totally used me and tossed me aside and I never stood up for myself.

I would do everything you can to minimize assets before he files. Good luck.

We are really down to the various accounts and 4 acres of land. He did not want much of the furniture, not that we had a lot- the house in AK was only about 1000 Sq feetc.

He sold a lot of stuff-guns, atvs,tools, etc... while I was in MT. He said he split it between us but I find that hard to belive . He had a lot of cash and used it to support himself for about a year.

Once I have the filled out paperwork and before I sign, I will take it to a lawyer.

THanks again for all the help and support. And good luck to everyone out there struggling. Here's to a much better 2017!