I am new here and have been reading and recently submitted a question to Marriage Bed Radio about the situation...
Let me begin from the beginning...
My WW and I have been married almost 7 years. It has always been a rough marriage but with Love, Care and Forgiveness throughout...
I struggled with Porn in the beginning even before we were married. I joined groups and went to counseling to get a control of this on my life. I am approaching 4 years of sobriety. We have lived with my parents to save money, for a couple years and then we lived with her parents for a few months because they were going through a hardship as her father is a Pastor who was caught in an Emotional Affair, and had a breakdown.
They were forced to leave the church and needed a place to stay. We bought a house in 2009 and they lived with us. My FIL, MIL and BIL all lived with us for over 3 years. My wife and I had been suffering communication problems and I was still going to my groups for support. Too my surprise, a relative of mine who was the piano player from the old church joined the group for those who struggle with sexual addiction. He was coming for some time but then he stopped and he abandon our church, my FIL during his time of coping and healing. Then one day he showed up to our bible study.
The next week...my wife confessed she had an affair with him. She is pregnant during this and she said all they did was talk and kiss. She seemed generally sorry and repentant... He was like a mentor to him.
But... it got worst. We didn't go to counseling and her attitude towards me didn't change. It was like we rushed back into healing. I listen to my FIL (our pastor), and didn't expose this affair to anyone not even my own family and our mutual friends. Try to work on communication and everything and then our daughter is born and the In-Laws are still there.
Attitudes seem to change to regret about having the In-Laws there. My wife works at gym where she cleans and I work in IT for government. Wife wants to look into getting a loan for her parents so they can move out... well she can't get the loan herself so I take one out in my name and get them a loan to get their own place. She switches off their phone plan to our own phone plan. Things seem to start improving and then they started to progress. I have a long commute, get up at 4am, leave the house at 4:30am and catch the train that leaves at 4:58 am just to get to work at 7am. I don't get back into our city until 6pm if the train doesn't break down. Then she makes dinner, and either leaves for work early or helps me put our daughter to bed at 8pm. She would basically throw our daughter at me and run out the house early to go to work.
In my sobriety Journal I would write I believe she is having an affair. She read it and didn't say much about but she was upset about my statement but I still stuck by it. We recently got smart phones and Iphones you can set it to show texts on the home screen or not. Well she was hiding those and had a lock screen. I didn't as part of my accountabiltiy. She started to go see a counselor, which I supported her with, but she never ask me to go.
Then it happens...
October 26, we got to my martial art banquet... to celebrate the kids doing good in school and martial arts. Well she leaves to go talk on the phone to her mother. She texts me and says she doesn't feel good and I am thinking, something is up and I bet I know what it is. She gets a couple of friends to pick her up and take her and my daughter home. Once the banquet is over, I rush home and there is my Grandmother-In-Law there. She takes my daughter outside and my wife confesses, that she had an affair with my relative again, and it was SEXUAL and for at least 2 YEARS...
Edit: ***She only confessed because the night before she tried to contact him and my relatives wife picked up the phone***
I lost it... I tried to leave and go after him but no one would let me leave. I tried to talk to her and couldn't control my tongue. I made a comment that was so un-characteristic of me. I actually got one of my swords and wanted to go after him but I put it away. During my rage I said "What would you do if I killed you..." I couldn't beleive I said it and I couldn't take it back. I was so devestated, so hurt and I lost control. I have always dealt with anger and tried to control it but this was too much for me to handle...
I apologized for the comment a week later but I fill villafied. No one has really reached out to me to talk, and her parents talked to my parents and talked about our ups and down and said I need anger management and everything. I never hit anyone out of anger before and let alone made a statment like that. My daughter and wife are now staying with her parents and everyone is devestated, my parents, her parents and the church. My relative was confronted by my father and my father is not a Christian. He let him have it, because the first time this happen I forgave him but now it has gone on this long and it got sexual I am totally devestated.
I already trying to work on myself and seeing my own counselor and then starting veterans day we are going to go see a marriage counselor together. I am also signing up for anger management.
I am waiting for a copy of Surviving the Affair to come in the mail...I really don't know what to do. I feel like I want the marriage to work but feel just destroyed, beatdown and hopeless even though I am trying to turn to God...
Sorry you are in this situation. You had better move the swords and the like out of the house. 1. So you don't do thing you will regret later. When you are angry, you are temporarily insane. And 2. Because it can bs held against you, especially now that you have threatened people and everyone knows.
Regretfully, you shouldn think a about doing a paternity test on your daughter.
Please read up on the materials on this site on how to handle an affair.
I did get rid of all the swords and weapons. Everyone knows, Our church, both our families, and Lord only knows who else. I know my daughter is mine because, my relative had a vasectomy before my wife and I started dating.
Thank you for your support and prayers.
I went and saw a doctor and now I am depression medicine and I am in a house all by myself with no real support mechanism in place. I don't even know all details but I know he's been to my house.
At the martial arts banquet she called her mother and father and told them. They were out of town preaching and they called her grandparents and the assistant pastor who came over the house. I told my friends and my parents.
I have not told our daughter because she is only 3 years old.
My father in law announced it to the church and he told the pastor who runs the church of the other man(my relative).
When she confessed she said the following: 1."You know we had ups and downs." 2. "I've been taking care of everyone but I needed someone to take care of me." 3. "I've been searching for someone to take care of me." 4. She said she is sorry... Like once and through a text message. 5. She has communicated with him that I know since the Other mans wife took his phone.
She apparently talked to my parents and her parents and said she wants to work on her marriage but she has not been really repentant or remorseful in my opinion.
This has been going on for two years. Her love bucket must be overflowing from him. We haven't had sex in a long while. She wouldn't say I love you sometimes and she would hug me of not hug me somedays. And if she kissed me it was like a half hearted kiss.
I am looking through the site for plan A. I haven't received book yet? I have no clue what I should be doing. I talk to her here and there but I am not sure what to say or do.
Chris, I validate your opinion that those are just what they seem- Lame Excuses. Trying to make others understand and sympathize with the inexcusable. One jewel you can pull out of the ashes is that she has identified a lack of care that she felt. That's something you can start to deal with by following Plan A.
Be aware that she may not want to receive it from you right away. Plan A will advise you on how to proceed in spite of that.
You guys may well need to move. Maybe a long ways.
Good job on getting going on the anger management.
The individual counseling may be good, but I am sure the Marriage Builders veterans will be on here soon to advise you that marriage counseling, in these circumstances of infidelity, is probably more harmful than helpful.
Why is that marriage counseling more harmful. Is it because they don't with the infidelity and the healing process of infidelity and thrust you back into the relationship?
Why is that marriage counseling more harmful. Is it because they don't with the infidelity and the healing process of infidelity and thrust you back into the relationship?
Marriage counseling is a horrible way to respond to an affair. They have terrible failure rates in marriages without affairs, even worse in marriages with affairs. Most counselors don't have a plan on how to (1) kill an affair and (2) restore romantic love and boundaries. The MB program is guaranteed to work if both spouses are on board.
This is what I wrote from another thread. It may be useful:
I prefer not to hold any punches when I speak, and what I say below may be hard to swallow, but you need to hear the truth so that you may act in a way that is most conducive to the achievement of your goals. Thus, what I say is not for the weak-hearted. Where I seem harsh, I do not mean to offend, it is to WAKE YOU UP from the big slumber that you seem to be in. I, like the others, have your best interest at heart. In the end, you will be ok and remember that you are stronger than you think you are, as will be discussed below.
What follows will be very long, as I gave a lot of thought of what I wanted to say to you and tried to come up with a fairly comprehensive strategy that you may want to put into action. It will be information overload and you won’t get many of it right away. But use it as a guideline and refer to it on an ongoing basis in addition to the advices you are getting from others on your thread. In time it will all make sense. So break what follows up in parts and come back to it from time to time.
I think analytically, so I will write in an outline form in the hope of being as clear as I can.
A. ACCEPT REALITY for what it really is.
You wife is in a full blown affair and you are, sorry to say, being played for a fool. All WSs at some point or another play their BSs for a fool. So you are not alone.
I will say more on exposure below, but for now I think you need to expose to your parents for two reasons. One, you will need all the emotional support you can get and they can be a big source of that. Second, you obviously need some outside perspective from all of this, and I think your parents can clearly point out to you what is really going on even though you are refusing to believe your own eyes.
So accepting reality is one of the first steps you need to take in order to give yourself a chance to save your M, to protect your CHILDREN and yourself.
B. You need to MAN UP
I hope you understand the concept of war. This crap you are going through is war. It is a war to save your M, to protect your children, and to maintain your sanity. Even though you may feel fear, you must act decisively, lest you and your children become the latest casualties of infidelity.
The weak may inherit the earth, but they do not win custody…especially if they are males. You need to be strong to fight for your children. Further, as some has suggested, women do not like men they perceive as weak. You will not win your WW back by catapulting to her every demand. Since, right now she does not have your best interest in mind, she is sure to exploit whatever weakness you exhibit. Thus, you are going to have to start standing up for yourself. It does not mean that you have to be rude, which is totally contrary to Plan A, but you need to stop being a doormat. A delicate balance, I know; a necessary one, nonetheless.
C. SNOOP
We know that there is an A. What you need now is proof of the A. The proof in my opinion is neither for you nor for your wife, since both of you know (and should know in your case) of the A. I see no value in trying to convince a WS that they are in A. If they are in A, they know they are in A. Trying to convince them that they are in the A is a waste of time.
Now your WW will try to convince you that she is not in an A, but if you know that your WW is in an A (as should be the case here), it is also a waste of time to argue with her about the existence of her A. When you have the proof in hand you can just show it to her if you wish—provided this does not jeopardize your source or legal case—but I don’t think that is necessary. You can just tell her that you know she is in an A and she can do whatever she wants with this information, i.e., the knowledge that you know what is going on. Don’t let her trick you into a fight on this. It is a waste of time and emotionally draining.
There are two other reasons, however, why I believe it is imperative to get proof of the A. One, you need proof for your legal case if your situation proceeds that route. Merely saying that you WW is having an A will not be enough. Since your WW is going to lie and say otherwise, you will need proof that can stand in court. You don’t want this issue to be just a he-says/she-says scenario in court. Note that even if the divorce laws in your state say that infidelity is irrelevant, infidelity may nonetheless be a factor in deciding who gets custody of your children. Moreover, since the judge is human, and even if the law says one thing, human nature will force him or her to take your WW’s infidelity into consideration when he or she deliberates on your case.
A second reason to snoop is to establish your credibility to those you expose to. Your parents will naturally believe you, so this is not for them. But her parents, and friends, others who can be influential with her, will be more apt to come to your aid if you can back up claims to them. A WS is a big time liar. Therefore, your WW is a big time liar right now. Just as she is lying to you now, she will be lying to those you expose to. If you have irrefutable proof in hand, she will have no where to hide and those you expose will have to come to terms with the reality of the situation. For these two reasons, I think it’s important to snoop your butt off on this.
How do you snoop? Well as others said, get telephone recording devices, car or personal tracking devices, computer keyloggers and hire a PI. Hiring a PI would especially be good. That would really solidify your case in court for custody, should it come to that, and open the exposure targets eyes to what your wife has really been up to. I know that hiring a PI may seem very expensive to you right now, but a divorce and losing custody of your children will be much more expensive than that, this I promise you.
Others are better expert on how to go about snooping, so I will defer to them on that. But what is clear, is that you need to do it.
D. Plan A: Exposure
1. Make a list of exposure targets and proceed to expose to them. They should be your parents, her parents, her siblings, friends of the M that can have influence on your WW. Later on, if that does not work, you can expose to the church you guys go to if you go to one or other people that can make a difference in your sitch.
2. When you expose be sure to tell the people that you expose to that your goal is to save your M and that you need their help in reaching that goal.
3. Do not threaten your WW that you are going to expose. Just do it. Do not tell her your plan here. In fact, do not tell her any of your plans in trying to save your M and protecting yourself and your children. Just as you would not tell an enemy your plan in a war, you don’t want to tell your WW your plan in this battle. Unfortunately, all WSs are the enemies of marriages.
4. Be ready for a big backlash when you expose. Your WW will say that your M is over, that this is the last straw, blah blah blah. Don’t worry, you will survive it! But don’t argue with her on this; just keep telling her that you will do whatever it takes to protect your M. Keep repeating this over and over as she brings it up.
E. See a Lawyer ASAP
1. Be sure that your lawyer tells you what your rights are, both for divorce and custody purposes.
2. With respect to custody, do not change your schedule with your children to accommodate your WW. The court will most likely give custody to the parent who takes care of the children and is there for them the most. As of now, that seems to be you. WW’s lawyer may told her that she needs to change the nature of the relationship that you have with the children, so WW can better position herself for custody at your expense. Do not accommodate her at all in this end. Continue to be the primary caretaker of your children.
Further, be sure to document all your interactions with your children and WW from now one. Again, in court your mere words will not be sufficient. If you document everything, however, the court will give me more credence to your contentions than your WW’s. Henceforth, not only do you write down everything you do for children and everything your WW does not do for her, keep every receipt of the things that you do for your children.
Also, when you document what is going on, make sure to write with a pen. A typed document will be given less credence in court (because you could have just written it just before court day). So get to work on this.
3. Don’t discuss divorce with your WW. You do M and your lawyer does divorce. If she wants to discuss divorce refer her to your lawyer. Be a broken record on this too. Do not let her bait you into divorce talk. Your WW will claim that she will do this and that to you if you don’t give in to her. Don’t take her seriously or listen to her nonsense on this. You have much more legal rights than she knows or wants to acknowledge. Thus, on the legal front, listen to your attorney, not your selfish, deluded, fogged-out WW.
4. Put your finances in order, and ask your parents to help you with upcoming financial difficulties that you will face because of this.
a. Separate your finances from WW. WS are known to deplete the finances of the family while in the throes of the A or when they are contemplating divorce or separation. You need to do this ASAP.
F. Schedule an appointment with the Harleys.
G. Plan A: Being the Best You Can Be.
1. Be as nice as possible to your WW without condoning the A. Do not be a doormat! Many confuse Plan A with being a doormat, and I vehemently disagree with this. Set up your boundaries without gratuitously being mean to her.
I believe being the best you can be will encompasses you treating her well. You see if you are being the best person you can be, you will strive to be the best husband, the best father, and being the best in whatever other roles your life entails. In being the best possible husband you can be, you would want to treat your wife well and meet her needs. Thus, you would try to find out what her needs are and try to meet them. You would be polite with her whenever you’re given the chance. To be sure, as a WS, your WW will rebuff many of your kind overtures, but that should not deter you in trying to be a great husband. Similar considerations apply to your roles in the other areas of your life.
But please do not confuse this with letting your WW walk all over you. A BS should never have to grovel to a selfish, unethical, irrational WS. Be polite, kind and loving whenever given the chance, but be firm and strong with respect to your boundaries.
In short, determine your shortfalls as an individual in all of the roles you play, and try to rectify them.
H. Get Full STDs Testing
Many on this site want to bypass this step, but I think for your health, your peace of mind, and the well-being of your children, you need to do it. STDs are alive and well in this country even though almost everyone, including me, wants to pretend otherwise. To ignore it is a big mistake in my opinion.
Most WSs have unprotected sex with the OPs. Thus, the BSs, when they sleep with their WSs, expose themselves to all the potential STDs that the OPs may have had. We have some cases here where the BS fell victim to an STD courtesy of his or her beloved WS. This is not a game, and as unsavory as it is to think about it, you must protect yourself.
In addition, before you have unprotected sex with your WW in the future, be sure she gets herself tested first. Since she slept with OM, you should require this as a condition for unprotected sex with her. If you want to pretend that the possibility of STD does not exist in your case, feel free to do so. You can deny this all you want, but an STD, if any, will not deny you.
I. Pray to God and ask Him to help you with this.
Although God helps those who help themselves, this is the most important step, in my opinion. He is greater than all of us and greater than all of this. It will be hard, but slowly and surely you should learn to put this, with everything every thing else, in His hands.
J. Some General Points
1. Do Not Move Out no matter what.
2. If WW wants to leave, she goes by herself. Your children stays at home with you, where they belong.
3. Ask OM to leave your WW alone, so that there will no doubt about how you feel about their A. Don’t expect much from this. It will be more to put OM on notice of your resolve to fight for your M.
a. If you can afford it, do like Bob Pure did and find out every thing you can out about OM. Find about his weak spots, and we can try to see where we can exploit them.
4. I think this bears repeating, do not grovel and beg your WW to stay with you. One, since you did not do anything wrong, you do not deserve to put yourself in that position. Second, a woman wants a man that they can respect. They won’t respect or be attracted to a groveling man. So even if your reflexes are to beg, stop yourself from doing said action.
5. Do not try to reason with your WW while she is a WW. As they are fond of saying here, WS are abducted by aliens. They cannot reason, and all they want is their next affair fix. You would be wasting your time if you think you can make your WW see the logic of your position. Just let her know your conclusions if need be and move on. (Do this in a non-DJ way though).
In the same vein, do not try to make sense of every utterance that comes out of your WW’s mouth. Again, you will be wasting a lot of time trying to follow the logic or reason of your WW’s statements. She is confused and thus so will be her words.
6. Unless it obvious, do not believe anything your WW tells you right now. WSs are pathological liars. As I have heard here, believe nothing a WS tells you, and only half of what you see. Also keep in mind that your WW does not have your best interest at heart at the moment; she is h*ll bent on destroying your M. Hence, as a rational person, you cannot rely on what she tells you.
7. Be acutely aware that what is going on in your M right now is NOT YOUR FAULT. It is easy to believe that your shortcomings in the M are the reasons that your wife cheated, especially when your WW rewrites the history between you two and blames you for everything. You may not have been the perfect husband, but you did not make her have an affair. I suspect your WW was probably not the perfect wife either, but yet you did not go outside of your M to fix your “marriage problems.” Her A is her personal CHOICE. People are free to make their own decisions. So repeat after me, “IT IS NOT MY FAULT THAT MY WIFE IS IN AN AFFAIR; IT IS HER CHOICE!”
8. Again, do not discuss your plans with your WW.
10. Even though it may not seem like it, your M is very salvageable.
Thank you... That is like the answer I feel like I was looking for. You brought a peace to my heart and fire in my belly to try and do this. I am going through the site.
About the MC, my wife has already seen her a few times and she is a Christian Counselor who apparently wants to keep marriages together but you feel that this is not a good approach...
Is what you outlined plan A? I can't wait for my book to get here?!
Dr Harley says that in Plan A, you should unconditionally love your wife (while strongly opposing the affair) You show love by meeting her top emotional needs.
The reason behind this is that you want to raise your Love Bank balance with her, while the exposure is causing withdrawls due to conflixt between her and her affair partner.
So the basic definition of Plan A is to make love bank deposits while avoiding withdrawls (caused by Love Busters such as Angry Outbursts and Disrespectful Judgements)
I think you have a great opportunity if the father in law supports you. I would reach out to him and say "I love my wife and would like to restore our marriage but I cannot do that as long as she is in contact with her affair partner"
Regarding the Counselor, I can tell you my personal experience. I went to a Christian Counselor during my wifea affair. She used it as a platform to demonize me. The counselor asked if the affair was over, and she said yes. He turned to me and said, you need to forgive her.
She then said she needed space and the counselor suggested we separate.
All of his procedures were contradictory to Dr Harleys program.
Hmmm, well, today, I kept my conversation short. I don't say I love you but I did compliment her on her hair. I asked her did she like driving her parents van.
When we met in person she had our daughter with her so I couldn't say anything really. I was focusing on the daughter.
I told her it was nice seeing her today.
Should I apologize to her in person about not meeting her needs? I was reading that on the site.
I also picked up the candy she likes and left it at her parents for her, for when she gets home.
I did get rid of all the swords and weapons. Everyone knows, Our church, both our families, and Lord only knows who else. I know my daughter is mine because, my relative had a vasectomy before my wife and I started dating.
Thank you for your support and prayers.
I went and saw a doctor and now I am depression medicine and I am in a house all by myself with no real support mechanism in place. I don't even know all details but I know he's been to my house.
Many a vasectomy has been known to have failed. Get a DNA test done ASAP.
I did get rid of all the swords and weapons. Everyone knows, Our church, both our families, and Lord only knows who else. I know my daughter is mine because, my relative had a vasectomy before my wife and I started dating.
Thank you for your support and prayers.
I went and saw a doctor and now I am depression medicine and I am in a house all by myself with no real support mechanism in place. I don't even know all details but I know he's been to my house.
Many a vasectomy has been known to have failed. Get a DNA test done ASAP.
I giggled for a second and then I am sitting here thinking hard, but they didn't have sex until after she was born, of course she could of lied then and they did... is it blood withdrawn or is it swab of the mouth?
It's generally a swab of the gums for DNA tests, then send it in through the mail, look it up online. BTW telling their OW they had a vasectomy is a classic OM lie, just assume anything OM told your WW is a lie too.
There's also a chance there have been other affairs and other OM.
Before you can settle this matter it's a good idea to make a very complete list of your questions about the affair.
Have your WW answer those questions. Then take your WW for a polygraph where they ask her did she answer all your questions truthfully.
Did you expose the OM at his workplace, there are many professions where having an affair can make a black mark on their career or get them fired particularly if you can prove they were doing something on company time.
Do you know of any other OW from OMs past, expose to their BHs.
1. I know he had the vasectomy because my father in law, was the one who made him get it when he was part of the old church. He knew of his history, of pornography and womanizing.
2. When do I ask my WW those questions. When is that a safe time to do that? My Father exposed him somewhat at his workplace and his own wife's family called his workplace.
3. Is the conversation I am having with her correct.
4. I am exercising. I started at 244 and down to 215.
The conversation sounds good. Its just important that there are no disrespectful judgements or angry outbursts in your conversations. This will be a trying time in Plan A. You may be trying to meet emotional needs as she's planning to have sex with the affair partner
Dr Harley typically recommends plan A for up to 6 months.
So try to ask yourself daily, "What emotional needs can I meet today?"
***update*** My book came in the mail finally and I am starting to read it.
Today, with some assistance with my mother, I was able to paint the room my Wife and I were supposed to paint. I cleaned the house and the cars. She has been using her parents car.
Well, I been trying to stick to the Unconditional Love approach, gave her a hug and try to compliment her and all. We went out as family, with our daughter and then later it was just us 2.
When it was just us, I took her by the hand and told her I was sorry for neglecting her needs. She look like she was about to tear up a little bit...
Well as the day progress we go to the movies to see Thor and we talk a little before going into the theatre.
After the movie, we talked about getting something to eat and I made the comment under my breathe "This is getting out of hand..." I was pretty much battling emotions on what to say and what to ask...
We pull into a parking lot and that's when we she let me have it. I was explaining to her about how details of the affair she can share with me to help me heal/trust and then she went into...
"Ever since your porn addiction, and the lies that you told to cover it up, I have checked out this marriage. I needed/wanted someone to take care of me because I am always taking care of someone else. I have been so unhappy and I emotionally have checked out a long time ago before the OM should up."
I said I am sorry for not taking care of you, I really am. Got a little silent and she started asking me if I acted out recently and I honestly told her No, which is the truth. I later ask her has she been with more than just this OM and she said, I am not going to answer any questions at this time, because emotionally I am dead inside and I can't say yes, no or 1, 5 or 0.
Then as we are heading home, she says she doesn't feel she can trust me with the details because I might go and tell somebody. I said to her that right now, the marriage falls on both our shoulders and no one can interfere at this point. Details are for helping me heal and trust. So we are supposed to wait until the marriage counselor to talk.
Did I do something wrong in this particular conversation? I know the love bank must be dropping low now.
She did however confess she tried to reach out to OM after telling everyone to see what has happened...
I woke up today and I can't lie... I feel like giving up and saying, lets just get a divorce. I am still reading the book and trying to put effort in but I feel just so beat down emotionally and all. Maybe I need to slow myself down.
My parents stopped by and they are no help. Seems I am just being put down and beat down by them like this is my fault that it happen...
For the sake of your daughter ypu should give plan A for 6 months. Ylu can do it. Watch a Rocky movie for inspiration. You're in the ring fighting for your marriage and family
Thanks, I am still implementing Plan A I am going to do 6 months. Since she is staying at her parents house, I been visiting her only for a few hours and trying to keep the conversations pleasant as much as possible and trying to not to bring up the affair what-so-ever.
Also, she said today "I was watching a Christmas movie and it made me kinda miss you."
Today we are going to see the marriage counselor... I will let you know how that goes. Supposedly she has dealt with these issues and had helped marriages stay together after adultery.
Sir I think you are making a mistake. The mere fact that the counselor is seeing you together is a huge red flag. Besides there is no point in seeing a counselor during an active affair. This will cause love bank withdrawls and not help your plan a or your marriage.
The only hope for your marriage is to follow the MB program. Dr Harley is a national expert and has counseled more that 50, 000 couples. He has much more understanding than a local counselor.
The fact is your wife is having a 2+ year affair with a relative. She is an expert and lying and making excuses as to why your marriage is dying. Its dying because she is devoting herself to another man.
You need to focus on killing the monster named Affair and Plan A.
Couseling will not help you in this battle and it will only be used as a platfo for your wife to lie, complain about you, and make demands.
As the betrayed spouse YOU should be in the drivers seat of recovery. YOU should make demands that she end the affair and follow a MB recovery program.
You don't put the cheating, addictive spouse in charge of recovery.
There's a proverb "When the blind lead the blind both fall into the ditch"
I know, you don't think that is wise but it did to seem somewhat beneficial. I am still doing plan A. Fixed more up of the house and myself and I did some snooping and found some gifts he gave her...
A couple of questions, is there any way to get a history of texts without having to notify her. She had the phone plan assigned to her email and I don't know her password and she's not here and I don't think she will divulge that stuff. We have iphone's by the way.
Today she seemed to be waking up. She said she was having a bad day and has been thinking about everything.
no I can't put spyware on her phone because she and I are now separated...un-legally. I am most likely going to see an attorney today after work...the day before my birthday...happy birthday to me.
That makes sense. A day before my birthday and they came over with an ice cream cake, and some McDonalds lunch. We talked about a whole bunch of stuff.
I replaced the kitchen faucet, cleaned up the house and dress in a certain sweater and she gave me a compliment on it.
I am not sure how to meet her other emotional needs, because I can't hold her hand or anything, or she won't let me. I did compliment her on her outfit.
Just remember, as you try to make small love bank deposits, AVOID love busters like disrespectful judgements and angry outbursts (which cause massive love bank withdrawls)
I am starting to understand; It's like I am moving almost pass the affair and into recovery mode alone while she is in the fog. I do the things that make her draw to me and then she wakes up and she starts to work on herself and then back into the mode to recovery of the marriage. I believe that's what I am understanding.
I am grateful for all the support but I think I might of messed things up. The affair is over as far as I know and today on my birthday we spent some time together. As I was taking her back to her parents house I said Can I have a kiss for my birthday. She seem to be shocked and asked that you would want a kiss from me, and I said it would make it a great birthday. Well... I got a kiss and then some. We end up having sex...
For some reason I think I messed things up by having sex with her. What is your opinion on this?
He absolutely did say this in a recent radio show. He also explained that unconditional love cannot last in marriage and that is why he typically recommends a 6 month cap on unconditional love
I am grateful for all the support but I think I might of messed things up. The affair is over as far as I know and today on my birthday we spent some time together. As I was taking her back to her parents house I said Can I have a kiss for my birthday. She seem to be shocked and asked that you would want a kiss from me, and I said it would make it a great birthday. Well... I got a kiss and then some. We end up having sex...
For some reason I think I messed things up by having sex with her. What is your opinion on this?
As a general rule, in Plan A this would be favorable because you were hopefully meeting her emotional need of sexual fulfillment. Emotional needs being met = love bank deposits. On a more practical side, om may be sleeping with prostitutes and others and you just exchanged bodily fluids (including any STDs with him and all of them)
However you should not consider the affair ended until she has agreed to never see or speak to him again.
In my case, during my wifes first break up with OM, she hugged me and iy was comforting. I was an emotional wreck. But she was secretly still in contact and ended up returning to OM so don't consider it over until she agrees to recovery
I have not asked her to come home. I figure that would be a negative deposit and be a Love Buster. I didn't think sexual fulfillment would be one of her needs and it does worry me about the STD's... and then my mind was like, am I better lover than him. I had a nightmare/bad dream and I was filled with anger during it.
In my dream the OM apparently had keys to my house. I was going to go over there and demand he give me the key to my house. Such a horrible feeling/experience.
He absolutely did say this in a recent radio show. He also explained that unconditional love cannot last in marriage and that is why he typically recommends a 6 month cap on unconditional love
Ahhhh, okay. Thank you for the further explanation, Jedi -- less likely to be misinterpreted. Much appreciated!
I am grateful for all the support but I think I might of messed things up. The affair is over as far as I know and today on my birthday we spent some time together. As I was taking her back to her parents house I said Can I have a kiss for my birthday. She seem to be shocked and asked that you would want a kiss from me, and I said it would make it a great birthday. Well... I got a kiss and then some. We end up having sex...
For some reason I think I messed things up by having sex with her. What is your opinion on this?
Not a mistake to have SF with your wife, CS -- though I would take precautions to protect your health in this department. Do all that you can to confirm and insure that the affair is indeed over.
I have not asked her to come home. I figure that would be a negative deposit and be a Love Buster. I didn't think sexual fulfillment would be one of her needs and it does worry me about the STD's... and then my mind was like, am I better lover than him. I had a nightmare/bad dream and I was filled with anger during it.
In my dream the OM apparently had keys to my house. I was going to go over there and demand he give me the key to my house. Such a horrible feeling/experience.
I've had similar dreams. You're doing a good job. Arr you seeing her tomorrow? What emotional needs can you meet tomorrow?
I didn't see her today but I texted her and told her I missed her and I was thinking of her. I asked her how her day was and complimented her on her fashion.
I should see her tomorrow. I been working on dressing more attractive and all.
I am grateful for all the support but I think I might of messed things up. The affair is over as far as I know and today on my birthday we spent some time together. As I was taking her back to her parents house I said Can I have a kiss for my birthday. She seem to be shocked and asked that you would want a kiss from me, and I said it would make it a great birthday. Well... I got a kiss and then some. We end up having sex...
For some reason I think I messed things up by having sex with her. What is your opinion on this?
Not a mistake to have SF with your wife, CS -- though I would take precautions to protect your health in this department. Do all that you can to confirm and insure that the affair is indeed over.
Mrs. W
My in-laws are helping by keeping tabs on her. I have not mention the affair recently. I figured once her love bank is back to being in love with me then we could move towards addressing it once she decides she wants to reconcile the marriage. She hasn't schedule IC yet but needs to. We are working on something's the MC gave us.
I took her out to eat yesterday and she seemed cold and distant. Gave her a kiss and held her hand. We went back to her parents house and sat there and watched Duck Dynasty... We talked here and there but I felt like she was kind of pushing me away.
I have not reached out to her today and I don't think I am going to the rest of the week. This is taking a huge toll on me and thinking about the sex we had, and I am thinking she probably said somethings or was thinking of the other guy while we were doing it.
Probably why she cried afterwards, probably miss that Sorry Piece of Crap.
Oh and she said she can't answer any questions right now because she can't think...Is this FOG Bull or Depression Junk.
I actually told my parents to stay out of it. They understand my approach and have helped with repairs around the house but anything else they do is out of scope...external love busters. My mom says she wants to have girl talk with her.
Not sure how they can help.
How long does it take the FOG to exit the system of the WS?
She is gaslighting you. All waywards say anything to get you off their back. I know you want to believe she's the exception but chances are she's not.
Sorry you're going through this but you need to treat her as if she has no self control and is an addict because that is exactly what she is right now. She wants the relationship she built and she will do anything to keep it going as long as possible.
You need to tell the children before your WW spin it into it being your fault for her adultery. I told my SS and DS, 9 and 4 at the time. Now I have custody and WW all but abandoned DS. SS is living with her and POSOM and let me tell you he isn't happy. WWs will also pull the "abuse" card as well. You teach your kids that they should tell the truth right? Time to practice what you preach.
Ephesians 5:11-13 11 Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.
She brought my daughter over today and would kiss me and hug me here and there. She is going over to my mothers house to have "girl talk" according to my mother.
I may have made the mistake of telling her I love her and I still want to be with her and how beautiful she is why I still love her.
She asked me why I still love her? I been texting her all these reasons but it's like they are hitting a wall. Should I just come out and say do you want to be with me or not? That's what I felt like I should say.
Yesterday she was like I don't know what I want, but she wish she could get a sign on what to do.
She was raised in Church her whole life, father a pastor and now she is acting like a deer in headlights and here I am pouring out my heart and soul and trying to re-connect with her and she is kind of just blowing me off.
She is gaslighting you. All waywards say anything to get you off their back. I know you want to believe she's the exception but chances are she's not.
Sorry you're going through this but you need to treat her as if she has no self control and is an addict because that is exactly what she is right now. She wants the relationship she built and she will do anything to keep it going as long as possible.
What is gaslighting? I was reading that somewhere and can't find it.
So today she asked to spend time with me and we went bowling. She kissed me and we spent time together.
We had a discussion and I said I am getting close to that point that the marriage could go one way or another and I be fine. She said that hurt her. We were watching this video that our marriage counselor gave us to watch. It was pretty good. She said she is trying and she feels like she still loves me and cares for me.
Telling her that you are fine with the dissolution of the marriage is an uncaring statement. If you're in plan A that is a no-no.
Also, even if you choose to walk away from your marriage, being "fine" with doing so says you don't value marriage. Leaving the marriage may in fact be your best option, but it is not something you should be "fine" with. It's a tragedy.
I am not fine with the dissolution of the marriage at all, but I said I am working to getting to place where either way would be fine but I prefer that we stay together and become better husband and wife.
Today, like I said we spend time and went bowling. I am still doing plan A and it's not like I am giving up, but I am being careful not to throw myself at her all over the place.
Our 7th wedding anniversary is coming up and she said something about going away together, just the two of us.
I am following Plan A. What advice due you have to fight through the pain of the affair, the images and all of that. I was reading the book and I didn't really see that addressed. I been taking a biblical approach of thinking of what the future can be with my wife and how things can better.
You need to tell the children before your WW spin it into it being your fault for her adultery. I told my SS and DS, 9 and 4 at the time. Now I have custody and WW all but abandoned DS. SS is living with her and POSOM and let me tell you he isn't happy. WWs will also pull the "abuse" card as well. You teach your kids that they should tell the truth right? Time to practice what you preach.
Ephesians 5:11-13 11 Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.
My daughter is only 3. I am not sure if I should tell her yet...
I am confused to one thing. I am not the one who had the affair but yet I have to be the one to do PLAN A, meet WW needs without getting my needs met or having any discussion about the affair. That's just seems crazy...
I am confused to one thing. I am not the one who had the affair but yet I have to be the one to do PLAN A, meet WW needs without getting my needs met or having any discussion about the affair. That's just seems crazy...
The catch is, even though the right thing for a person whose had an affair to do would be for them to be the one to do all the heavy lifting to try to restore the marriage, very often a wife will not be willing to do that at first. Recovery is wonderful for both betrayed and wayward spouse, and ultimately is a joint project, where ultimately both are in love and the marriage is better than ever - it becomes the marriage it always should have been. But typically a wife needs her husband to do a lot of moving to learn to meet her emotional needs, which are much more complex than ours.
Regarding discussion of the affair - why would you want to keep reliving the pain? What would that accomplish? It won't make your wife feel more like meeting your emotional needs - it'll just make her (and you) miserable. Maybe it would be "right" to hold it in front of her and for her to respond, but attempting to motivate your wife through guilt is pretty much doomed to fail.
I am confused to one thing. I am not the one who had the affair but yet I have to be the one to do PLAN A, meet WW needs without getting my needs met or having any discussion about the affair. That's just seems crazy...
The catch is, even though the right thing for a person whose had an affair to do would be for them to be the one to do all the heavy lifting to try to restore the marriage, very often a wife will not be willing to do that at first. Recovery is wonderful for both betrayed and wayward spouse, and ultimately is a joint project, where ultimately both are in love and the marriage is better than ever - it becomes the marriage it always should have been. But typically a wife needs her husband to do a lot of moving to learn to meet her emotional needs, which are much more complex than ours.
Regarding discussion of the affair - why would you want to keep reliving the pain? What would that accomplish? It won't make your wife feel more like meeting your emotional needs - it'll just make her (and you) miserable. Maybe it would be "right" to hold it in front of her and for her to respond, but attempting to motivate your wife through guilt is pretty much doomed to fail.
Now that you said it like that, it makes sense. I don't want to relieve the pain even though I feel like I am everyday.
Why is it when we talk and spend time together I feel better but when we are apart I feel like calling it quits... Is that because of the lack of trust.
Why is it when we talk and spend time together I feel better but when we are apart I feel like calling it quits... Is that because of the lack of trust.
It sounds to me like you need to be together more!
It's not that you need to trust her more - you need to make sure that she is only in situations in which anybody could be trust. Dr. Harley's position is that there are some circumstances under which anybody can be trusted - and some circumstances under which nobody should be trusted!
Probably when you are together you feel good as your emotional needs are being met - and when you are apart you wonder what she could be doing. You need to be personally snooping like a bloodhound so that you know for a fact what she is doing.
Are you working through the book, Surviving an Affair?
Why is it when we talk and spend time together I feel better but when we are apart I feel like calling it quits... Is that because of the lack of trust.
It sounds to me like you need to be together more!
It's not that you need to trust her more - you need to make sure that she is only in situations in which anybody could be trust. Dr. Harley's position is that there are some circumstances under which anybody can be trusted - and some circumstances under which nobody should be trusted!
Probably when you are together you feel good as your emotional needs are being met - and when you are apart you wonder what she could be doing. You need to be personally snooping like a bloodhound so that you know for a fact what she is doing.
Are you working through the book, Surviving an Affair?
I got the book and read the whole book and trying to implement Plan A. Your probably right about my needs.
We discussed about her coming back but she is worried that everything will just go back to the way it was...
Now she is talking about we should go away together for Anniversary...what good will that do?
I didn't contact her first today and this is what says in her text: "Hi don't wanna talk today?"
Does this indicate that I need to reach out and talk to her more to you guys and find out what's she doing and all this?
Jedi, I believe your right so I will, but I have to ask you this. She asked if she could go away with my daughter and two of her friends on Dec 31st. Apparently one of them has one some tickets for a free hotel stay and aquarium visit. All women. What's your opinion.
Isn't it ridiculous that she would think about being with them at a time like this when she should focus on her marriage?
First thank her for asking you if you felt ok with it. Thats a good sign IMO she is taking your feelings in account. Secondly I would decline or ask of you can join. Or better yet you make it a family affair and no outsiders. Remember to use I statements and don't come off as demanding and judgmental.
I don't think you understand plan a. It is unconditional love.
Jedi: Plan A is not unconditional love. Dr. Harley does not recommend unconditional love; in fact, he is opposed to it.
Yes it is. He recently made that clear in a radio show. You are correct that Harley does not support unconditional love in marriages because it is unsustainable.
However during an affair the goal is to put aside having your own needs met, and go all out to win back the wayward spouse. He typically recommends that you do this for no more than 6 months though, because it is unsustainable.
Jedi, I believe your right so I will, but I have to ask you this. She asked if she could go away with my daughter and two of her friends on Dec 31st. Apparently one of them has one some tickets for a free hotel stay and aquarium visit. All women. What's your opinion.
Isn't it ridiculous that she would think about being with them at a time like this when she should focus on her marriage?
I would be very careful of allowing this. Tranquil was asked if his mil could help around the house and it was all a scheme to kidnap his children!
Her friends, I actually don't approve of now, because they are either divorce or single or have not been in a successful marriage and don't seem like the type to give good advice or might encourage an affair... I really don't know where they all stand on this.
I was looking at this page and just to bring light to this.
My wife said before the affairs "She checked out the marriage a long time ago." and "she has been looking for someone to take care of her."
Now these two statements have caused me a little trouble because that means she is not in it and she may have had other affairs or so forth.
Now I will say, I have been having an amazing experience with God through all this and have switched my thinking into positive thinking of what our marriage could be if she wants to reconcile. That has been helping me a bit.
I was looking at this page and just to bring light to this.
My wife said before the affairs "She checked out the marriage a long time ago." and "she has been looking for someone to take care of her."
Now these two statements have caused me a little trouble because that means she is not in it and she may have had other affairs or so forth.
Now I will say, I have been having an amazing experience with God through all this and have switched my thinking into positive thinking of what our marriage could be if she wants to reconcile. That has been helping me a bit.
She very well may have had other affairs because she has poor boundaries. Her affair is still ongoing. Whwn she is wiling to end the affair, she would be required as a condition of recovery to write a no contact letter to affair partner and employ extraordinary precautions so that this will never happen again.
At one time, as a condition of revovery she will answer all questions that you have and Dr Harley encourages use of polygraphs.
But that is down the road. Focus on the day.
What emotional needs can you meet today? How many love bank deposits can you make?
She also said she is going to IC after the holidays. Is that a good idea for her since she doesn't know if she wants to Reconcile yet. She said "she doesn't want us to hurt each other, and for us to be healed so we can make the right choice if we should be together or not and be better parents for our daughter."
Counseling may help her. But that doesn't concern you right now. She probably wouldn't need depression medicine if she stopped doing things yhat make her depressed. Who prescribes it for her? A family doctor? Hooefully it will help her see more clearly
Yea, she went to another family doctor. Hopefully. she is taking lexapro.
I am not sure how it is still on-going besides in her heart because she is basically under 24 hour watch. My in-laws are watching her all except texts but the OMW took his phone and stuff so I know there is no contact.
Well om can buy a phone for $10 at walmart and a callimg card for a few more. Know how I know? Because I blocked om from my wifes phone so her father nought her a phone to carry on her affair! She also used payphones.
Does your wife work? Does the employer spy on her during her breaks? Does she have a commute? Does she ever go shopping?
Trust me, she is not under 24 hr surveillance.
Btw have you seen the movie Random Hearts? If not, it really shows the level of deceptions people go through
Ok, good point. I never thought of all that. Maybe I am a little naive. She does work, at night and I have drove by her job during her shift. She has 5 min drive from her parents to her job and she goes shopping... and she has Facebook and I still don't have access to the phone records.
Should I ask her about it or just continue with Plan A?
At this point just continue with plan A. The affair is active. Most people can have sex in 5 minutes and the fact is she coild be having sex with him during her lunch break.
As for the 5 minute commute? Thats easy to solve. She just needs to tell the boss she feels sick and leave work early.
If you place a GPS unit on her car that may help give some info
Thanks to the poster "Lino", I re-discoverd a prayer that I had used back in 2005 when I was trying to bust up my wife's affair. Hope it can help others as well.
Here it is:
[color:"blue"] Hedge Prayer for Return of a Wayward Spouse
[The Prayer of Hosea is one of the most powerful prayers in the arsenal of spiritual warfare -- the Hedge Prayer. Hosea had a wife who was committing adultery and running around on him. Hosea was convinced that he not divorce her but to pray for her return. This prayer is particularly useful in praying for a wayward spouse, child, or friend who has gone astray from the Faith and from God, has left to lead an improper life, and/or is estranged from the proper relationship they should have with you.
It should be noted, as it is with all prayer, the Hedge Prayer is not a magic bullet. There are no guarantees that the person prayed for will return. We must always remember that God has given his children the freedom to choose -- even the freedom to choose wrongly. No one, not even God, may force a person against their will to do anything. God, however, is a mighty persuader and although He will not intrude upon one's freedom to choose the course of one's own actions, He may provide the person with great incentive, motivation, and circumstances to help them decide to come back to the place they should be.
For she said, 'I will go after my lovers, who give me my bread and my water, my wool and my flax, my oil and my drink.' Therefore I will hedge up her way with thorns; and I will build a wall against her, so that she cannot find her paths. She shall pursue her lovers, but not overtake them; and she shall seek them, but shall not find them. Then she shall say, 'I will go and return to my first husband, for it was better with me then than now.' --Hosea 2:5b-7]
Trusting in the promise that whatever we ask the Father in Jesus' name He will do, I now approach You Father with confidence in Our Lord's words and in Your infinite power and love for me and for my [husband/wife, person's name] and with the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God, the Blessed Apostles Peter and Paul, Blessed Archangel Michael, the guardian angels of myself and [person's name] , with all the saints and angels of heaven, and Holy in the power of His blessed Name, as ask you Father to send forth Your Spirit to convict [person's name] and to allow him/her to see any and all wrongs that he has done and how they offend Your infinite goodness.
Father I ask in sorrow, knowing that You do not intrude upon free will, but that You can give Divine Influence like you did with Hosea's wife, that You send a hedge of thorns and wall around [person's name] so that he/she cannot find the paths that lead him/her away from me and our marriage, and though he/she shall pursue his/her [i.e. lovers, lifestyle, sinful ways, etc.] , he/she will not [i.e. overtake them, practice improper lifestyles, engage in sin, etc.] ; though he/she shall seek [i.e. lovers, improper lifestyle, sin, etc.] , he/she shall not find [i.e. them, desired lifestyle, the sin that draws him, etc.] ; that no matter what path or what [i.e. lover, lifestyle, sin, etc.] he/she seeks he/she shall not find satisfaction or happiness until he/she returns to me, his/her wife/husband where he/she may then be taught by Your Holy Spirit the true meaning of marriage and sexuality and to be a good and loving wife/husband, and to know the ways of righteousness and true womanhood/manhood.
Father, I am powerless against these spiritual forces and recognize my utter dependence on You and Your power. Look with mercy upon me and upon my wife/husband. Do not look upon our sins, O Lord; rather, look at the sufferings of your Beloved Son and see the Victim who's bitter passion and death has reconciled us to You. By the victory of the cross, protect us from all evil and rebuke any evil spirits who are attacking or influencing us in any way. Send them back to h-ll and place a wall of protection around this marriage. Send your Holy Angels to watch over us and protect us.
Father, all of these things I ask in the most holy name of Jesus Christ, Your Son. Thank you, Father, for hearing my prayer. I love You, I worship You, I thank You and I trust in You. Amen. [/color]
Geez, are you in Plan A with your ex or are you moving on?
In my specific case, my wife had an affair with a violent felon (he went to prison for 9 years for trying to kill his 3 year old daughter while on drugs) In such cases, Dr Harley places the health and safety of children above anything else. My wife would not end the affair so I divorced her to protect the children. I have custody of my 3 children and she lives with OM. They have passed the 2 year mark!
We were married 10 years.
However I had walked off of my path with the Lord and her affair brought me back to Church. I pray with my children daily and we read the Bible. We spend time together and they are mostly happy and healthy.
I did plan A for about 6 months during divorce process. So I have experience in plan A during an active affair.
The affair was tragic. Thankfully, I found Marriage Builders and a plan on how to cope with it and move forward.
I am no longer in plan A. Immediately following divorce, I entered into a type of Plan B. Having no contact with such toxicity is very healing
You can't control your wifes actions, but you can control yours.
Wow. That is some story. I can't even begin to imagine. Glad you are going to church and protecting your kids. Has she contacted you or the kids recently...sorry if I am intruding.
Wow. That is some story. I can't even begin to imagine. Glad you are going to church and protecting your kids. Has she contacted you or the kids recently...sorry if I am intruding.
Yes she sees the kids weekly in visitation. However I do not speak to or see her. There is an email address for communication.
As a general rule, Dr Harley typically recommends no contact after divorce, unless the husband is trying to win the wife back in which cases he recommends plan A for years if needed
I am going to start reading His Needs and Her Needs but I have to ask this.
I tell her I miss her, and I enjoy spending time with her and kissing her and holding her hands and things like that. Is that good for meeting her emotional needs?
Or does that come off as being whatever. I think she is having issues feeling loveable after all she has done. Is it normal for them to ask the BS do you still feel the way you do or now.
Also, I need strength because as I am feeling vulnerable now and this woman at work has been speaking to me, non-romantically but it seems like it could lead to an affair itself if I am not careful...
Go with your gut. Stop talking to her its that simple. You should also read surviving the affair and lovebusters if you haven't already. His need her needs won't help you as much if the affair is active.
I read surviving the affair, not lovebusters yet. And I am avoiding saying certain things to her now because I realize the damage that could do. I have to be the better person about this.
Also, I need strength because as I am feeling vulnerable now and this woman at work has been speaking to me, non-romantically but it seems like it could lead to an affair itself if I am not careful...
or am I being paranoid.
Youre not being paranoid. You are being rational. Dr Harley is very clear that married people should have NO opposite sex friendships! So avoid personal conversations with this woman.
I am going to start reading His Needs and Her Needs but I have to ask this.
I tell her I miss her, and I enjoy spending time with her and kissing her and holding her hands and things like that. Is that good for meeting her emotional needs?
Or does that come off as being whatever. I think she is having issues feeling loveable after all she has done. Is it normal for them to ask the BS do you still feel the way you do or now.
She is going back and forth between you and her affair partner. That's why youre in plan A. When she asks, "what about our future? do you love me?" you answer "I am willing to work with you to create a loving healthy marriage once you end your affair" she then will ask OM: Do you love me ? what about our future?>
She is comparing and contrasting. you want to be the better man and the shining lighthouse. Like in the book of Hosea.
On trying to show affection to my wife, should I still be saying I love her or that fact that she had an affair should I not say it? Doesn't that mess with her brain. Trying to show affection with out being sexual and meeting her needs.
Was this an Exit Affair? Is she doing everything just to exit the marriage you think? She doesn't say I love you or anything to me. Of course I know I shouldn't be hooked on that and you guys think this is an active affair
Was this an Exit Affair? Is she doing everything just to exit the marriage you think? She doesn't say I love you or anything to me. Of course I know I shouldn't be hooked on that and you guys think this is an active affair
Most affairs are not planned out in advance. As explained in Surviving An Affair, they happen due to poor boundaries.
Dr Harley has counseled more than 50, 000 couples and I've never heard him speak of exit affairs on his radio show
This one seems like it was planned in my opinion and I know I could be speaking from pain and hurt, but she did admit she reached out to him and was looking for someone to take care of her for the longest time...
Seems like we had some breakthrough after going to MC. She told me what needs the OM was meeting. She is thinking she wants to rekindle/reconcile but isn't sure if we are strong enough to stop hurting each other.
No she's in love with the affair parter. I suggest you stop the counseling. Go to the next appt and say: "I am willing to work with you to create a loving romantic marriage where both of our needs are met but you must first permanently separate from om and agree to send a no contact letter and never see or speak to him again"
She did admit she hasn't contacted him, even though there has not been a no contact letter sent... I am going to wait a bit to say anything about that. Going to concentrate on PLAN A. That would probably withdrawal from the love bank.
I decided to be open and honest and tell her and the counselor of the woman at work and now she is jealous. I told her she compliments me and all this other stuff and now she is jealous.
When I took her back to her parents house she sat in my lap and got hot and heavy with me. No sex this time, and I just tried to be affectionate. I went to her job and put a note I written in the van.
Could she be lying yes, but I have to stick to the plan. I truly honestly feel like this is good despite what everyone is saying.
The counselor even told her she needs to choose reconciliation because that is what God wants. I expressed how I felt manipulated right now because she is not choosing to reconcile because doing Plan A has built up all these emotions towards her and then if she says she wants a divorce she will then I will feel hurt probably even more.
Any time the affair is brought is brought up you should say; I am willing to work with you to create a loving healthy marriage but you must end your affair and agree to never see or speak to your affair partner again"
If its dead she will have no problem writing the No Contact letter. You need to insist on this. Recovery should be as specified in Surviving an Affair and not the counselors own plan or your wayward wifes plan. She must agree to never see or speak to the man again. Since he is a relative thhat means no family functions where he is present or where is picture is even displayed
She must also agree to remove all conditions which made her affair possible.
If its dead she will have no problem writing the No Contact letter. You need to insist on this. Recovery should be as specified in Surviving an Affair and not the counselors own plan or your wayward wifes plan. She must agree to never see or speak to the man again. Since he is a relative thhat means no family functions where he is present or where is picture is even displayed
She must also agree to remove all conditions which made her affair possible.
I agree with it, but for some reason she is not responding to my texts or phone calls.
Good idea. She may have info you don't have and vice versa.
That's what I was thinking. Not going to tell me wife though.
Dr Harley would support this. He encourages betrayed spouses discussing affairs to get the full info. Just make sure you keep your boundaries high. Also please refer her to this website for help
So she didn't really have any information to share and apparently she was kept in the dark about a lot more than I was.
Yesterday, Thanksgiving, we went to her grandparents. In the ride up there she out of the blue drops on me that she is going to a concert with a female friend of her on Dec 13th.
Didn't ask if it was ok, just said she was going. Also, I been struggling with this whole though of being with her as of late. The reason is because she has not done anything to earn my trust. But she keeps trying to investigate me now since I told her about this woman at work.
Edit: But I assure her nothing will happen because I have boundaries in place.
This has to be ridiculous. My wife feels like I am going to kill her or may kill her if she moves back in. I am trying to re-assure her that I wouldn't.
I have been known to give dirty looks but I have not ever implied except on DDay and I apologized for that. Now she is acting like the victim because of that comment.
Is this a gaslight technique or is this a valid feeling she should have?
This has to be ridiculous. My wife feels like I am going to kill her or may kill her if she moves back in. I am trying to re-assure her that I wouldn't.
I have been known to give dirty looks but I have not ever implied except on DDay and I apologized for that. Now she is acting like the victim because of that comment.
Is this a gaslight technique or is this a valid feeling she should have?
This has to be ridiculous. My wife feels like I am going to kill her or may kill her if she moves back in. I am trying to re-assure her that I wouldn't.
I have been known to give dirty looks but I have not ever implied except on DDay and I apologized for that. Now she is acting like the victim because of that comment.
Is this a gaslight technique or is this a valid feeling she should have?
Do you know if she is still involved with OM?
As far as I know she is not. She say's she is not.
I would not ask her to move back in until she is willing to write a no contact letter to OM. Let the in law preacher deal with her ongoing adultery.
You know what, after the conversation we just had where she said she is concerned about pornography and if I am going to kill her and all this junk. I agree. I think we shouldn't go away together either now as well.
Thw reason I encourge a vacation together is because it provides opportunity to make love bank deposits. However I went on a family vacation while my wife was having an affair and she texted OM and went for long walks alone while we were on vacation (probably talking to him)
In Plan A you want to meet as many emotional needs as possible but if ahe starts texting or calling OM I would accidently spill some coffee on her phone so its inoperable.
How often are you seeing your daughter? She's at the in laws?
Thw reason I encourge a vacation together is because it provides opportunity to make love bank deposits. However I went on a family vacation while my wife was having an affair and she texted OM and went for long walks alone while we were on vacation (probably talking to him)
In Plan A you want to meet as many emotional needs as possible but if ahe starts texting or calling OM I would accidently spill some coffee on her phone so its inoperable.
How often are you seeing your daughter? She's at the in laws?
Edit: Had to move my text out of the quotes I am seeing my Daughter almost everyday. Due to my long commute and anger management and individual counseling, I try to see her as much as possible. Sunday's I take her out by herself and spend time with her for a few hours. Normally lunch and an activity.
When it comes to sex for men, after finding out their wife had an affair, is it normal for men to lose interest in sex to a certain degree or not be interested in it at all with their spouse after disclosure?
Just want to express myself here: My wife is now all Jealous of the woman I work with at work. She said she is jealous, but how can she be jealous when she disconnected from for 2 over years and have an affair and then say now she is jealous over a woman, who yes is nice looking and is fun to talk to and shows me respect.
It seems ridiculous that she would even care after having sex with another man, let a lone another relationship. I actually had to re-assure her I have boundaries in place to protect against this. I am not interested in this woman and will make sure to have my boundaries up. I am trying to make this work but the fact she thinks: 1. I am going to go back to porn. 2. I am going to kill her based off a stupid statement.
1. I know the pain of porn especially now she has an affair. 2. I would never hurt her since I still love her even though now I am finding myself slowly disconnecting from her and almost not having feelings for her... I am trying hard to stick to plan A but at times I feel like saying time to move on. 3. At my porn recovery group tonight, we watched a video called "Helping Her Heal". I can honestly see why our marriage went down the road it is now and I understand the pain all too well.
Too all the hurt spouses, I wish you never had to go through this pain, and for those who are trying to regain back their spouses, you are a blessing and keep going when the tough gets going and don't give up. Be patient and help your spouse heal.
I wish I had done a better job during my porn recovery, so I could of helped me wife and maybe this would have not happened, but unfortunately. I am not taking responsibility for the affair, because that is her choice and she in reality could of just divorce me and left instead of lying to me, hiding the truth from me for 2 years.
Then she has the nerve to tell me she disconnected from me, and then choose a man who also suffers from Porn Addiction. What sense does that even make. Now I have to sit here in this house alone and make the best of it by trying to appease her who, shows no remorse or care for me and the pain I am going through, or was...
I am in a place now where I do feel like I can forgive and move forward somewhat... She said she just trying to survive. The sad part is I am supposed to feel sorry for her because she had just lost a relationship, that was based off nothing on fantasy and she escaped from the reality.
God says we can divorce if they commit adultery...God also says he gave us the ministry of Reconciliation. I ask you, which is the higher road...
When it comes to sex for men, after finding out their wife had an affair, is it normal for men to lose interest in sex to a certain degree or not be interested in it at all with their spouse after disclosure?
Yes. I would be scared of dying from AIDS absent an STD test..
My wife is now texting me and saying she is fat. I am telling her she is not. What you think about that. am I doing the right thing. How should I respond? Is this a tactic so she can get me to say yes your right and I am leaving you?
Yes. I would be scared of dying from AIDS absent an STD test..
Or dying from a HPV caused head or genital cancer 10 or20 years from now.
God Bless Gamma
I was infected with HPV16 by the fat slag. That is the most aggressive of the types that can cause cervical cancer. Fortunately I get regular checkups so this was spotted at about the time I found out about her. I am unable to shake off the infection so I have to be very carefully monitored.
My wife is now texting me and saying she is fat. I am telling her she is not. What you think about that. am I doing the right thing. How should I respond? Is this a tactic so she can get me to say yes your right and I am leaving you?
Plan A response: "I think you are absolutely beautiful"
She's coming over now to tell me something's. Please pray for strength and that I don't get angry.
Ill pray for you. Please remember you are in Plan A NO disrespectful judgements or angry outbursts. Communicate "I am willing to work with you to create a loving healthy marriage wherw both of our needs are met but you must first permanently separate from OM"
If she starts arguing or sometjing, offer her a cup of coffee and walk away.
Be like a broken record , because she is in the fog and you want this to sink down into her head
(As a precaution, try to record the conversation since she has already said you are dangerous. There is always a possibility she is trying to set you up to get the house back)
No matter how ugly what she tells you is, remember that the ugliest truth is so much better than the best written lie.
God Bless Gamma
Your absolutely right be because it got worst.... She revealed she has had sex with a co-worker twice so this is not the first time she has had an affair. This is ridiculous and she just revealed to me that she was talking to other guys and had recently stopped. I am glad she didn't come back in the house. She said her co-worker was a jerk and she did oral and anal with the other guy and didn't like anal. This is just getting to be the worst and worst. She said the other guy was a jerk and I am pretty sure they hAd sex at the place she works. Then she said she went back to the other guy and had sex in our bed.... This had to be over a two year period now... Because the other guy doesn't work there anymore and hasn't for about a year.
I still followed plan A to the T. I apologized for my porn use and said I still want to be with her and all and she got all googly eyed with me.
I took her out to dinner at the restaurant we met each other where we use to work. I almost basically took the blame for her affairs and she took no responsibility or showed any remorse. And to make matters worst we talked about something's such we her leaving her job if she wants to get back together and she said that she couldn't incase we get back together and I retaliated.
At least she isn't currently pregnant, however I would get DNA tests for your children.
Especially now do not have sex with your WW anal sex puts a person at a very high risk for AIDS!
All of these fact have to be known before your marriage has any chance of survival, so while this is painful it's a bit like bitter medicine which is necessary.
Long term if you stay together your WW needs to take a polygraph.
She got tested for AIDS but she definitely should get tested again. This is such a horrible way to end my night. Just came back from IC and it went well. She said it came back negative...
Another question, should I sell any gifts she gave me the last two years or is that taking it too far? I feel like those gifts have no meaning now and I should just get rid of them.
Yes, please do make sure to have her get retested in a few months -- for all we know, she could have HIV now and it's early enough in the infection that the test could have been a false negative.
Have you had SF with her at any point when she was having SF with the OMs? If so it's probably a good idea to get tested yourself.
The window period with current sensitive HIV-tests is very short (ca. two weeks) If she tested negative, she probably is, but to be on the very safe side test again three months after last contact. Because there are other STDs she shoud get retested anyway and get the full work-up.
You stayed collected and I highly applaud you for that. Is your wife willing to give up working there?
The window period with current sensitive HIV-tests is very short (ca. two weeks) If she tested negative, she probably is, but to be on the very safe side test again three months after last contact. Because there are other STDs she shoud get retested anyway and get the full work-up.
You stayed collected and I highly applaud you for that. Is your wife willing to give up working there?
She doesn't want to give up working there because she has no college degree or anything of the sort and is afraid that if something happens she will have no means to provide.
The window period with current sensitive HIV-tests is very short (ca. two weeks) If she tested negative, she probably is, but to be on the very safe side test again three months after last contact. Because there are other STDs she shoud get retested anyway and get the full work-up.
You stayed collected and I highly applaud you for that. Is your wife willing to give up working there?
She doesn't want to give up working there because she has no college degree or anything of the sort and is afraid that if something happens she will have no means to provide.
She has no boundaries. There is possibly more affairs that you still don't know about. She is a serial cheater. However if she was willing to follow MB rules you could still have a great marriage.
There was a poster named jah whose wife was a serial cheater and they are doi ng great now
The window period with current sensitive HIV-tests is very short (ca. two weeks) If she tested negative, she probably is, but to be on the very safe side test again three months after last contact. Because there are other STDs she shoud get retested anyway and get the full work-up.
You stayed collected and I highly applaud you for that. Is your wife willing to give up working there?
She doesn't want to give up working there because she has no college degree or anything of the sort and is afraid that if something happens she will have no means to provide.
She has no boundaries. There is possibly more affairs that you still don't know about. She is a serial cheater. However if she was willing to follow MB rules you could still have a great marriage.
There was a poster named jah whose wife was a serial cheater and they are doi ng great now
Thank you Jedi. Your may be blunt and brutal but at least you tell to me it straight...
I feel somewhat encourage and somewhat borderline ready to drop out.
Think I just dropped a bomb. I am doing Plan A and telling my wife that I am avoiding this woman at work and keeping her informed. Called her to just check on her. I then text-ed her and apologized and said everything is my fault...
Watching this video on how my sexual addiction made her feel and then seeing how I treated her afterwards, no wonder she had an multiple affairs, and she disconnected from me. I am a wretched person... I still love her and I basically made her into this.
I lied, I hid the truth from her for so long and then I tried to speed up her recovery and I wasn't there for her when I was the one who stabbed her in the back. I picked her up instead of removing the knife and bandaging the wounds. I didn't give her the love she needed, she deserved...
I am going to stick in the marriage because she stuck by me during my Sinful Nature and wanted to help me. I want to help her and give her what she deserves...that's love...
It's hard because I know she doesn't love me, no longer and that again is my fault... I pushed her away.
Think I just dropped a bomb. I am doing Plan A and telling my wife that I am avoiding this woman at work and keeping her informed. Called her to just check on her. I then text-ed her and apologized and said everything is my fault...
Watching this video on how my sexual addiction made her feel and then seeing how I treated her afterwards, no wonder she had an multiple affairs, and she disconnected from me. I am a wretched person... I still love her and I basically made her into this.
I lied, I hid the truth from her for so long and then I tried to speed up her recovery and I wasn't there for her when I was the one who stabbed her in the back. I picked her up instead of removing the knife and bandaging the wounds. I didn't give her the love she needed, she deserved...
I am going to stick in the marriage because she stuck by me during my Sinful Nature and wanted to help me. I want to help her and give her what she deserves...that's love...
It's hard because I know she doesn't love me, no longer and that again is my fault... I pushed her away.
Really? Was she a white unspoiled virgin that you corrupted and turned into the office slut? I'm not excusing your behavior but her behavior is just as bad.....
And maybe that's why she was attracted to you? Maybe she's attracted to filth because she feel more comfortable with it?
Irregardless of what happened in the past, you can still have a great marriage if you are both willing to radically transform your lives and follow thw recovery program in SAA.
Oh, if the man in the office is married Harley would encourage you to expose to his wife also. And also expose her multiple affairs to her parents and the employer.
Think I just dropped a bomb. I am doing Plan A and telling my wife that I am avoiding this woman at work and keeping her informed. Called her to just check on her. I then text-ed her and apologized and said everything is my fault...
Watching this video on how my sexual addiction made her feel and then seeing how I treated her afterwards, no wonder she had an multiple affairs, and she disconnected from me. I am a wretched person... I still love her and I basically made her into this.
I lied, I hid the truth from her for so long and then I tried to speed up her recovery and I wasn't there for her when I was the one who stabbed her in the back. I picked her up instead of removing the knife and bandaging the wounds. I didn't give her the love she needed, she deserved...
I am going to stick in the marriage because she stuck by me during my Sinful Nature and wanted to help me. I want to help her and give her what she deserves...that's love...
It's hard because I know she doesn't love me, no longer and that again is my fault... I pushed her away.
Really? Was she a white unspoiled virgin that you corrupted and turned into the office slut? I'm not excusing your behavior but her behavior is just as bad.....
And maybe that's why she was attracted to you? Maybe she's attracted to filth because she feel more comfortable with it?
Irregardless of what happened in the past, you can still have a great marriage if you are both willing to radically transform your lives and follow thw recovery program in SAA.
I encourage you to read jah's thread
I am reading it and I still reading SAA & HNHN. You got a point. When I told her I was a horrible father and husband she said I wasn't horrible.
Oh, if the man in the office is married Harley would encourage you to expose to his wife also. And also expose her multiple affairs to her parents and the employer.
He's not married and no longer works there. He left years ago and she no longer talks to him. We are an interracial couple, she's white and I am black and this guy she was messing with apparently hates black people and thinks blacks should be with blacks and whites with whites and said he was a jerk. Why, I have no idea besides that he was talking to her...
the issue with the workplace is similar to an alcoholic in a bar: in recovery all conditions which made the affair possible must be removed. So in the case of your wifeshe can props no longer workoutside of the homejust as an alcoholic can no longer go to a bar
the issue with the workplace is similar to an alcoholic in a bar: in recovery all conditions which made the affair possible must be removed. So in the case of your wifeshe can props no longer workoutside of the homejust as an alcoholic can no longer go to a bar
I agree but she is not committed at this point. She thinks I am going to kill her... she has totally manipulated what I said and feeling and made her self the victim in that regards.
She doesn't think you want to kill her that's an excuse. My WW did the same thing, she doesn't want to live with herself because of what she has done to you. Does she have a history of suicide attempts? She is self loathing at this point and is begging for some positive attention from you. Are you in Plan A? What have to done to clean up your side of the street?
She doesn't think you want to kill her that's an excuse. My WW did the same thing, she doesn't want to live with herself because of what she has done to you. Does she have a history of suicide attempts? She is self loathing at this point and is begging for some positive attention from you. Are you in Plan A? What have to done to clean up your side of the street?
I am in plan A. I have installed accountability software on everything and I am in a men's accountability group and I joined an anger management group and I told her of the other woman at my job who i thought was coming on to me. She has not had suicide thoughts.
So listen to this. Our MC said that we should go away together but we should do forgiveness of each others sins against one another and we should be moving towards reconciliation.
So I say to her: What do you want to accomplish by being together on the trip?
WW: Want to accomplish are we going to stay together or not?
BH: How are you feeling right now about staying together or not right now?
WW: I'm sure I'll let you know soon.
BH: Before we go or when we go?
WW: Don't Know.
This whole thing smells. You want to go away together to see if you have feelings or not but you don't know when you will tell me. Who would go away with somebody and say, lets get a divorce???
I found this website where you can post people who had wrecked your marriage. Should I post the other man. It's called **EDIT**. Or should I let this go?
I found this website where you can post people who had wrecked your marriage. Should I post the other man. It's called **EDIT** Or should I let this go?
Yes, post it However the only people that look at those sites are betrayed spouses.
So listen to this. Our MC said that we should go away together but we should do forgiveness of each others sins against one another and we should be moving towards reconciliation.
So I say to her: What do you want to accomplish by being together on the trip?
WW: Want to accomplish are we going to stay together or not?
BH: How are you feeling right now about staying together or not right now?
WW: I'm sure I'll let you know soon.
BH: Before we go or when we go?
WW: Don't Know.
This whole thing smells. You want to go away together to see if you have feelings or not but you don't know when you will tell me. Who would go away with somebody and say, lets get a divorce???
quote from "Surviving an Affair:"
You may think that after a spouse willfully chooses a lover (over the betrayed spouse), there would be no hope for marital reconciliation, but that's not true. While there is no hope for reconciliation when the affair is underway, as soon as the affair is ended, reconciliation is definitely possible.
And almost all affairs end sooner than most people think they will.But for the betrayed spouse, waiting for the affair to end seems like an eternity. The wayward spouse can't seem to make up his or her mind -- one moment committing to the marriage and the next moment committing to the lover.
To help a betrayed spouse survive that painful period of vacillation -- the time it takes for an affair to die a natural death -- I recommend two plans. If the first plan (plan A) is unsuccessful in separating the wayward spouse from the lover, the second plan (plan B) is followed until the affair is ended. This sequence -- plan A followed by plan B -- represents the most sensible approach to handling a wayward spouse's inability to decide between the lover and the betrayed spouse.
------- She is in the fog and vaccilating between you and the om. Now you are shooting yourself in the foot by arguing about yhe vacation. In plan A the goal is to make love bank deposits and vacation is ghe perfect time to do so! Build up the love bank!
So listen to this. Our MC said that we should go away together but we should do forgiveness of each others sins against one another and we should be moving towards reconciliation.
So I say to her: What do you want to accomplish by being together on the trip?
WW: Want to accomplish are we going to stay together or not?
BH: How are you feeling right now about staying together or not right now?
WW: I'm sure I'll let you know soon.
BH: Before we go or when we go?
WW: Don't Know.
This whole thing smells. You want to go away together to see if you have feelings or not but you don't know when you will tell me. Who would go away with somebody and say, lets get a divorce???
quote from "Surviving an Affair:"
You may think that after a spouse willfully chooses a lover (over the betrayed spouse), there would be no hope for marital reconciliation, but that's not true. While there is no hope for reconciliation when the affair is underway, as soon as the affair is ended, reconciliation is definitely possible.
And almost all affairs end sooner than most people think they will.But for the betrayed spouse, waiting for the affair to end seems like an eternity. The wayward spouse can't seem to make up his or her mind -- one moment committing to the marriage and the next moment committing to the lover.
To help a betrayed spouse survive that painful period of vacillation -- the time it takes for an affair to die a natural death -- I recommend two plans. If the first plan (plan A) is unsuccessful in separating the wayward spouse from the lover, the second plan (plan B) is followed until the affair is ended. This sequence -- plan A followed by plan B -- represents the most sensible approach to handling a wayward spouse's inability to decide between the lover and the betrayed spouse.
------- She is in the fog and vaccilating between you and the om. Now you are shooting yourself in the foot by arguing about yhe vacation. In plan A the goal is to make love bank deposits and vacation is ghe perfect time to do so! Build up the love bank!
Your right, but I feel like I am walking into a trap. I will continue with plan A
Does she have the right to choose if she want's to Reconcile or not? It just doesn't seem right.
I think the reason why you ask this questionits because you do not feel in control of the situation.the reason why you feel this way is because you are seeing a marriage counselor. you do not have to reconcile with your wife if you don't want to
I want to reconcile and I do not feel in control. I feel like everything is depending upon her to make the decision. The marriage counselor also want us to reconcile, but I think what is hindering me is WW is beating around the bush and is still either in a fog, or is another affair or she is really worried about the porn addiction and my anger that she is trying to decide if it is worth it...
I want to reconcile and I do not feel in control. I feel like everything is depending upon her to make the decision. The marriage counselor also want us to reconcile, but I think what is hindering me is WW is beating around the bush and is still either in a fog, or is another affair or she is really worried about the porn addiction and my anger that she is trying to decide if it is worth it...
The reason you don't feel in control is because you are not committing to the full court press of Plan A. I can't remember if you have Surviving an Affair. If you don't get it now! If you do, re-read it and get thee into a Plan A. If you do this you will have full control of the situation from your end. She will see your committment and in the long run that will help her to make a decision. You don't have control over her decision, but you have control over yours.
Just remember, those who have chosen to fight for their marriage by executing a strong Plan A have had no regrets because they know they did everything in their power to try and recover their marriage. Plan A is maybe the hardest thing you will ever undertake. It's fraught with pain and frustration, but the sacrifice is worth it. Plus, you have us to lean on.
I am going to go back and read the story of JAH. I need some encouragement.
If I decide to speak to my wife and I go to her and say the affairs are my fault because of the porn addiction, what would that do? I am debating if I should say that or not and see how she reacts, because I feel like that will indicate where she stands on everything or is that a dumb idea?
You are not the cause of her affairs anymore than my boss would not be the cause of me robbing a bank because I'm broke and he won't pay me more money. You contributed to your wife's unhappiness but she chose to sleep with someone else.
WWhen I left my first wife, I was miserable. I didn't cheat; I left the marriage. And, actually, she had an affair which is what was the final straw.
You are not the cause of her affairs anymore than my boss would not be the cause of me robbing a bank because I'm broke and he won't pay me more money. You contributed to your wife's unhappiness but she chose to sleep with someone else.
WWhen I left my first wife, I was miserable. I didn't cheat; I left the marriage. And, actually, she had an affair which is what was the final straw.
That's what I thought, and the way she is acting, this no remorse thing is killing me and making me want to give up.
You are not the cause of her affairs anymore than my boss would not be the cause of me robbing a bank because I'm broke and he won't pay me more money. You contributed to your wife's unhappiness but she chose to sleep with someone else.
WWhen I left my first wife, I was miserable. I didn't cheat; I left the marriage. And, actually, she had an affair which is what was the final straw.
That's what I thought, and the way she is acting, this no remorse thing is killing me and making me want to give up.
CS, Dr. Harley says not to expect any remorse from a wayward wife. Typically there is not any even in recovery, at least not at first. So definitely don't expect any during this stage!
Have you seen your doctor about taking antidepressants?
She told me the only reason she is having sex with me now and kissing me is to see if she can find feelings for me.... what am I supposed to make of that.
This has to be ridiculous. My wife feels like I am going to kill her or may kill her if she moves back in. I am trying to re-assure her that I wouldn't.
I have been known to give dirty looks but I have not ever implied except on DDay and I apologized for that. Now she is acting like the victim because of that comment.
Is this a gaslight technique or is this a valid feeling she should have?
You were in a rage on DDay and told her: "What would you do if I killed you..."
Sorry, this isn't gaslighting. You made a threat, and she has every right to her feeling of fear. To downplay her feelings as "ridiculous" or "invalid" or "gaslighting" or an "excuse" is horribly disrespectful and belittling.
Dr. Harley has said that an Angry BH/WW situation is a very dangerous one. He has seen angry BH's kill or maim their WW plenty of times. She is perfectly responsible to believe you may actually follow through on your threat.
She told me the only reason she is having sex with me now and kissing me is to see if she can find feelings for me.... what am I supposed to make of that.
I am very confused about what stage you are in, here. If your wife is still in contact with her affair partner, she will not find feelings for you like this. However, if she has ended the affair, this is probably a good start.
That's what I thought, and the way she is acting, this no remorse thing is killing me and making me want to give up.
Alot of BS want the same thing. Like Markos said, most WW won't give it.
My need for FWW to feel remorse really just got me wrapped around the axle of resentment. Even when she showed it, I felt it wasn't enough, so the resentment grew. It's like a fire that creates it's own oxygen, it's a [censored] to put out. Resentment is a bad deal all around but, if you're in Plan A, it makes an already hard job nearly impossible. Not that I'm the one to give this advice, but I'd forget about her remorse.
She told me the only reason she is having sex with me now and kissing me is to see if she can find feelings for me.... what am I supposed to make of that.
I am very confused about what stage you are in, here. If your wife is still in contact with her affair partner, she will not find feelings for you like this. However, if she has ended the affair, this is probably a good start.
She's a serial cheTer. The om is a relative with 2 yr affair and she has had sexual hookup with other men also. She's accostomed to having sex with 2 lovers separately
Does she have the right to choose if she want's to Reconcile or not? It just doesn't seem right.
Your porn use and your angry outbursts have given her two good reasons to separate from you. Dr. Harley would recommend she separate from you if those issues aren't resolved and don't stay resolved. But even if she didn't have those reasons, commitment doesn't save marriages, and reminding her of her commitment to you will not save your marriage. It will only annoy her.
When Dr. Harley first tried to save marriages, he worked by trying to get people to restore their commitment to each other. It doesn't work. The marriages were lost that way.
How Dr. Harley Learned to Save Marriages (for more about this read his books like Defending Traditional Marriage, Effective Marriage Counseling, or Fall in Love, Stay in Love)
This has to be ridiculous. My wife feels like I am going to kill her or may kill her if she moves back in. I am trying to re-assure her that I wouldn't.
I have been known to give dirty looks but I have not ever implied except on DDay and I apologized for that. Now she is acting like the victim because of that comment.
Is this a gaslight technique or is this a valid feeling she should have?
You were in a rage on DDay and told her: "What would you do if I killed you..."
Sorry, this isn't gaslighting. You made a threat, and she has every right to her feeling of fear. To downplay her feelings as "ridiculous" or "invalid" or "gaslighting" or an "excuse" is horribly disrespectful and belittling.
Dr. Harley has said that an Angry BH/WW situation is a very dangerous one. He has seen angry BH's kill or maim their WW plenty of times. She is perfectly responsible to believe you may actually follow through on your threat.
This is one of the reasons I am doing the anger management. What can I do to make her feel safe though and restore that security?
She told me the only reason she is having sex with me now and kissing me is to see if she can find feelings for me.... what am I supposed to make of that.
I am very confused about what stage you are in, here. If your wife is still in contact with her affair partner, she will not find feelings for you like this. However, if she has ended the affair, this is probably a good start.
She has ended the affair, not on her terms but on the POSOMW terms. So this could possibly be a good thing.
Dr Harley addressed this in radio program: when someone says I love you what does that mean? In the context of marriage it should mean I love you so I will show care for you.
if you are showing care for her and meeting her emotional needs and plan a then it is a correct statement
Ok, I will. She texted me and said she want's to go away with me still. She also has been sending me pictures of her...non sexual.
So when and where are you going? Excellent opportunity make LB deposits.
That right there is the million dollar question. I am trying to use the POJA.. I believe that's it to get an idea, either Williamsburg VA where we had one of our anniversaries or Ocean City...
1. I was having some issues with my chest, anxiety attack or pneumonia. She seemed to be concern about my health.
2. I sent her a picture and she complimented me on my muscles. 3. I was sitting around with her family and tomorrow I am going with my father-n-law and some other men from our church to a special prayer. She say's she needs the van because she has to go pickup people from work to take them to the Xmas party. This of course is a trigger from me because it just came out of the blue and I don't trust her of course.
When WS's want to reconcile, do they out right say it and say what they are going to do or what they are willing to do or do you have to lay down those ground rules?
Dr. Harley says it very common for WWs to never show any remorse. Yet a WH must come hat in hand on bended knee for a BW to even consider recovery.
It's even different as to how long Dr. H will recommend Plan A for BW(3 weeks top and then go into Plan B) where a BH can last 6 months to 2 years.
It is very common for a WW to take a very long time to come out of the Fog and see the error of her ways, if ever.
Have you read Jon and Sue's story in SAA?
I read the story. I figured my wife was different. ... I hope she was different. Well, I am doing 6 months and after that... I am throwing in the towel.
I literally got sick when I saw them, and had to stop the car and almost vomited. She said in response to that: 1. the OM only loves himself 2. That was right after the whole thing came out so I don't even know how I feel about him. 3. You shouldn't read peoples personal text. 4. I don't know how I feel about anything. I told you that.
Is it possible the OM was a better lover than me? I heard affair sex is supposed to be great and in some cases women feel humiliated by having sex with the OM.
Yes. In the book Surviving an Affair, Dr Harley describes how Sue found that the sex with Greg was incredible, while she hated having sex with Jon. The reason? She was emotionally connected with Greg instead of her husband.
That is why Dr Harley encourages couples to follow the recovery plan in Surviving an Affair, which restores romantic love into marriages.
Yes. In the book Surviving an Affair, Dr Harley describes how Sue found that the sex with Greg was incredible, while she hated having sex with Jon. The reason? She was emotionally connected with Greg instead of her husband.
That is why Dr Harley encourages couples to follow the recovery plan in Surviving an Affair, which restores romantic love into marriages.
If it didn't ask you to pay a dollar, it went to his "other" box which is only visible on a PC. Some people (like me!) Who only use Facebook mobile won't even see their "other" box.
Well I blew it. I had an angry outburst. I came to her and my daughter and she was on the computer playing a game and I said shouldn't we be interacting as a family and she said you haven't seen your daughter all day and you should focus on her. I got upset and have the wrong look and trust me that is an angry outburst look. We talked about it and the whole thing made me feel even more angry and sadder because I always come out looking like the bad guy in these situations.
I am getting back to you about Plan A. You listed some steps you are taking in Plan A, but truthfully you are floundering. Imagine a newly caught fish on the deck of a boat. Hopping, jumping, and thrashing. That's you right now.
Take some time, friend, and read the following two links to get your bearings back:
Everyone makes mistakes when they are in Plan A. It is really one of the hardest things to do. But you have failed to execute on many levels, and you need to straighten out your ship and get it going in the right direction.
If your goal is to recover your marriage, you need to be the stable one in this relationship. Show her that you are cool, calm, responsible, wise, and that you still have a sense of humor. Be the safe landing that she needs. Seek to meet her needs while at the same time using the stick of Plan A to kill the affair and hold her accountable without any disrespectful judgments or angry outbursts.
Can you read the links and follow the advice in them?
I am getting back to you about Plan A. You listed some steps you are taking in Plan A, but truthfully you are floundering. Imagine a newly caught fish on the deck of a boat. Hopping, jumping, and thrashing. That's you right now.
Take some time, friend, and read the following two links to get your bearings back:
Everyone makes mistakes when they are in Plan A. It is really one of the hardest things to do. But you have failed to execute on many levels, and you need to straighten out your ship and get it going in the right direction.
If your goal is to recover your marriage, you need to be the stable one in this relationship. Show her that you are cool, calm, responsible, wise, and that you still have a sense of humor. Be the safe landing that she needs. Seek to meet her needs while at the same time using the stick of Plan A to kill the affair and hold her accountable without any disrespectful judgments or angry outbursts.
Can you read the links and follow the advice in them?
I think I can but I also might be a little confused. The affair is over and we are technically separated because she is staying at her parents house. However, how am I supposed to place emphasize on what worked in our marriage and what I contributed to the marriage. I am going to do a list of what I have contributed to the marriage and work on that.
When it says emphasize what has worked in our marriage, does that mean I should emphasize to her or should I just do those things on my own?
In plan A just try to meet emotional needs. Her affair is not over. Its underground but most likely ongoing.
You can consider it over when she agrees to write a NC letter and agrees to extraordinary precautions and marital recovery
The fact that she has not agreed to martial recovery you assume the Affair has gone underground? What are some clues that the affair is not over that I should be looking for?
If she is not willing to agree with all the extraordinary precautions starting with the no contact letter that you rewiew before sending out' then she is still in the fog and it is not safe for you to move on.
I haven't asked for a NC letter... I should ask for that. She told me she is looking for personality changes and stuff in me so she can feel safe to come back. I believe she still is in the fog myself.
Why would you assume it's not on going? Fact is she (in her mind) has a more attractive option compared to being at home. This means she has a comparison point.
In following Plan A I told my wife I feel hopeful about our marriage and she responded why now and I am about to say the following: The reasons I have become hopeful. 1. Dealing with the anger and emotions and letting them go has set me free. 2. I know I can and I want to meet all your needs. 3. I love you and want to instill that romantic feeling back in you that we felt in the beginning. I feel like I can do it as long as I am not having to compete with any others
I would stick with what JK said. It short and sweet and doesn't scream look at me I'm changing so let's get back together. Remember your fixing the issues for yourself not for her. Plan A is no expectations.
Should I direct my wife to this site or wait when she is ready to move.
No. I would not direct her here until the affair has died a natural death and she is willing to (a) commit to never contacting OM for the rest of her life and (b) agrees to follow the MB recovery program.
If she has questions you can share the book Surviving an Affair with her
I texted her the following basically: would say, I am willing to work with you to create a marriage where both of our needs are met but you must first end your affair
I texted her the following basically: would say, I am willing to work with you to create a marriage where both of our needs are met but you must first end your affair
Thats good. She's in the fog and you need to repeat that over and over, and hope some of the message gets through her thick skull and when she has moments of clarity, she will remember what you say
I took inventory of her Emotional Needs. Going to try and execute those next.
I keep seeing your buddy icon and think your smiling all the time...
I actually am smiling a lot. Having a spouse in an affair drains your life force. I remember those days well, I could hardly function. I took it one day at a time, with Gods help
I don't think this is working for me... I might try another plan, meeting her needs is just not working... I think I am going to just disengage her all together. I am worrying too much and it is causing me to much stress. I got to take care of myself, she screwed up, and got her feelings in a bind for some other man. I can't compete as long as she's in withdrawal/fog...
I will try later. still going to go away but now i feel different about it...
I don't think this is working for me... I might try another plan, meeting her needs is just not working... I think I am going to just disengage her all together. I am worrying too much and it is causing me to much stress. I got to take care of myself, she screwed up, and got her feelings in a bind for some other man. I can't compete as long as she's in withdrawal/fog...
I will try later. still going to go away but now i feel different about it...
CS, Stop modifying the plan based on her actions and your emotional response. Stick with the basics and stay with it. Your constant vacillations are setting you back over and over. Time to man up.
NO EXPECTATIONS! I went through the same thing man. Once you understand you cannot control her and do a proper Plan A her reactions and non reactions will have no effect on you. Like Just stated, open that can of man and follow through. You do good and I bet my paycheck she will see the difference in her mind. Yet, she will compare and contrast those plan A actions. At the same time you set a benchmark of behavior you will allow. I'm not going to lie the first 3 months my WW was an angry woman towards me no matter the actions I took.
Now I have to get off the phone with her because she enjoys talking to me. It takes time and a WHOLE LOT OF PATIENCE! What gets me through the day is my DS and working out. Relieves my stress and has me looking my best. You should read a good Plan A thread from a poster as a reference. Samurais fight with honor right?
Alright alright.... Let me ask you this... What do I say when she asks if I am ok and I am suffering from thoughts or something... Should I tell her what I am feeling?! Or is that a love buster?
So I told her how I was feeling because of the affairs and she the following: WW: I am sorry. BH: I be there in a few. You ok? WW: Just feel like this will plague our lives forever. WW: Just having a sad day BH: What will plague our lives forever? WW: This whole situation. BH: I still believe we can have a healthy marriage where we can meet each others needs. I believe we can get past all of this.
How's that? Is this a good start to a solid plan A?
I would say yes. Are you doing any investigating aka snooping? Part of plan A is busting up the affair. Has she agreed to a NC letter? Also, stop bringing up the affair(s). Keep the conversation light and pleasant. Aren't you two going away together? Where and when are you going? Have you read any of Dr. Harley's books? Do not bring up any relationship talk. Let her and when she does state what JK said and politely change the subject.
Refresh my memory, but didn't you write Dr. Harley?
Yes I did and this is what they said back.
Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
Your problems in marriage have as much to do with your living conditions as they do with your wife's unfaithfulness. There are so many changes that must be made that I hardly know where to start. First and foremost, you and your wife should work the same hours, and be home together every night. There should be no relatives living with you. You need privacy. Your ability to meet each other's emotional needs during the past few years has been almost nonexistent. She has affairs with people that she spends time with and who meet her emotional needs. You've rarely been with her. While your anger is certainly something that must end (I'd encourage you to avoid swords or any other kind of weapon altogether), your marriage is hardly satisfying to either of you. Your time away will be an opportunity to discuss how you would change your living conditions, and how you could pay for it. Learn to support each other without help from others. If your wife doesn't want to continue her marriage with you, I'd hang on a while longer to be sure that she doesn't change her mind. If she divorces you, she's likely to go from the frying pan into the fire. I'd also make sure that your child is really yours. Get a blood test for the child to be certain. I'd also see an attorney to be sure that you understand your options if your wife were to divorce you.
So I told her how I was feeling because of the affairs and she the following: WW: I am sorry. BH: I be there in a few. You ok? WW: Just feel like this will plague our lives forever. WW: Just having a sad day BH: What will plague our lives forever? WW: This whole situation. BH: I still believe we can have a healthy marriage where we can meet each others needs. I believe we can get past all of this.
How's that? Is this a good start to a solid plan A?
Yes. But I would always include "But you must first end your affair with OM and agree to a recovery program"
I am feeling more hopeful and confident now...how odd.
I am training for a marathon. I feel confident that I will do well in the marathon because I am following an established plan developed by an expert in the field.
If I did not have this plan, I would not be so confident of running 26 miles
Part of exposure, I am questioning of doing is my WW job. The first OP is no longer there and she has not communicated with him since she had this long term relationship. She also started her own bank account and is depositing money into there...which she says she will use for us if we get back together for a vacation as a family...
I read that you have to be careful with exposure to the Job. What do you think?
I made a request of text messages she has had and call log and request them to be notarized and mail to the house. 10 business days... just in time for Christmas.
Part of exposure, I am questioning of doing is my WW job. The first OP is no longer there and she has not communicated with him since she had this long term relationship. She also started her own bank account and is depositing money into there...which she says she will use for us if we get back together for a vacation as a family...
I read that you have to be careful with exposure to the Job. What do you think?
Is the recent OM at her work?
Have you exposed at all? You don't want to do trickle exposure.
Have you exposed at all? You don't want to do trickle exposure.
Her family knows, my family, church and OMW knows.
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
So what's your plan?
To either write her a letter stating that I am willing to meet her needs if ends all her affairs. I don't trust her and I am snooping now to find out if there are others going on.
Request that she writes a NC Letter and enter recovery as well. That she basically does what's on the SAA checklist.
Found this... this will help... technically, I shouldn't be meeting WW needs should I during Plan A?
But what if the affair is over but she is not sure she wants to reconcile and she feels like I am going to kill her? What then, PLAN A still/ begin Plan B?
Should this actually be in the recovery board since the affair is over or should I start the recovery board once she agrees? Because she hasn't agree completed I should assume the affair is going on. I do have access to the phone records.
GOT IT! Do's 1. Act Happy 2. Get a life (new activities, etc.) 3. repeat over and over..."I will make it" 4. Actively LISTEN....keep conversations "to the point...small talk" ...don't blow it up beyond the waywards current comfort zone and/or ability to logically carry on a conversation. Their mind is elsewhere so you are just trying to keep them in the present. 5. Tend to Agree (Thank you for your truthfulness, It seems that way, you have a point) 6. Expand your social relationships (Being especially aware of your own vulnerability and keeping sharing and time with opposite sex relationships to an absolute minimum) 7. Get sexy (gym, new clothes, new cologne, shower gel, etc) 8. Focus on your strengths and Positives...don't put yourself down verbally or constantly go over what you did wrong 9. Accept Uncertainty (Do your best today and let God take care of tomorrow)
DON'Ts
1. Repeatedly say "I love you" 2. Ask questions that don't have answers yet 3. Criticize, complain, whine or nag 4. Say, "I've changed"....allow the wayward spouse to simply judge your actions 5. Argue, Reason or Plead 6. Don't get family or friends overly involved in recovery (notice I said "in recovery", EXPOSURE to bust up an active affair IS ESSENTIAL and EXPOSURE to the OP's spouse is an absolute MUST) 7. Act helpless or depressed (it may be hard to imagine this but YOU will make it regardless whereas without you, your spouse won't) 8. Discuss morality, invoke God or Dr. Laura type babble 9. Suggest marital counseling (must be the waywards idea and is usually a waste of time anyway unless it's with the Harley's or a counselor that uses MB materials) 10. Tell them continually "we need to work on the relationship" 11. GIVE UP
Should this actually be in the recovery board since the affair is over or should I start the recovery board once she agrees? Because she hasn't agree completed I should assume the affair is going on. I do have access to the phone records.
I got caught snooping. I called one of the numbers on the call log from the phone records... I assume this a major love withdrawal. It was my wife's gay co-worker. She answered the phone with her at the party...oh boy.
I got caught snooping. I called one of the numbers on the call log from the phone records... I assume this a major love withdrawal. It was my wife's gay co-worker. She answered the phone with her at the party...oh boy.
Your WW answered the phone?
Did you do a reverse phone look up before you called? Did you block your number when you called? Did you say anything when the phone was answered?
My wife accused me of lying because I also created a Facebook page to apt on her and I friended men and women from school. I removed all women and deactivated the account.
She asked if I had any female friends on there and I only had some older lady like grandmother but i friended some later and asked some to be friends.... I see that was wrong and so I told her I was sorry and that was inconsiderate of me and I removed them and deleted the account. It appears now that she seems indifferent towards me because of this. She said this is a sign that you haven't changed and your still lying to me and I am do e with the lying stuff. I gave her the password to the account so she can see I am being transparent open and honest and I confessed I used it to just see what she was doing.
My wife accused me of lying because I also created a Facebook page to apt on her and I friended men and women from school. I removed all women and deactivated the account.
She asked if I had any female friends on there and I only had some older lady like grandmother but i friended some later and asked some to be friends.... I see that was wrong and so I told her I was sorry and that was inconsiderate of me and I removed them and deleted the account. It appears now that she seems indifferent towards me because of this. She said this is a sign that you haven't changed and your still lying to me and I am do e with the lying stuff. I gave her the password to the account so she can see I am being transparent open and honest and I confessed I used it to just see what she was doing.
Listen, spying on your wife isn't bad. I wouldn't worry about it too much. The fact is, she has an ongoing 2 yr affair with a relative; And office romances where she has confessed to having various sex acts with.
There are probably a lot more you dont know about. In fact, its possible shes having an affair with this gay coworker.
Listen, spying on your wife isn't bad. I wouldn't worry about it too much. The fact is, she has an ongoing 2 yr affair with a relative; And office romances where she has confessed to having various sex acts with.
There are probably a lot more you dont know about. In fact, its possible shes having an affair with this gay coworker.
Just keep plan A. Dont worry about being caught
I hope my wife is not engage in lesbian activity...that might be too much.
This is the letter I drafted. WW, I know our marriage has had a lot of ups and downs and now we are in a situation that is just unbelievable. I know you are going through a tough time and have a lot on your mind. This whole situation has caused a lot of pain on our families, our church and most important our daughter. I know things do not look hopeful but I am open to working on this marriage and making it better and healthier than what it has been.
With that said, your affair(s) have caused me much pain. I reflect upon the good times that we did have and I have to question if those were real or not. The affair you said lasted two years but I go back to when the 1st time you told me and it is like it has not ended, so it felt like it lasted 3 years.
I still love you and I am willing to forgive rather you wish to be in the marriage or not but If you are willing to reconcile I am asking for the following if there is to be any reconciliation to improve this marriage. �End all/any affair that is going on now �No Contact Letter sent to OM and any other person �Quit your current job and find a new job with different hours or stay home �Transparency and accountability to all devices, phone, email, FaceBook �You go to individual counseling and get a female mentor/advisor �You stop associating with certain friends (named in letter).
2 things. 1. I just HACKED OM's FACEBOOK ACCOUNT!!! Now what? Say's I have to wait 23 hours and 59 minutes.
What should I do if I find out my WW has still been contacting him through it?
What should I do with the account after I search through it?
2. December 16th was our 7th anniversary this year. I invited her over the house, she has been staying with her parents. I played some songs that we liked and danced with her, and gave her a ring and a card. We ended up having sex for an hour and half and then went out to eat.
I am still continuing with PLAN A. We are going to York Pennsylvania this weekend. Based off how the trip goes we might stay together or go our separate ways she says....
I was having chest pain, severe, and was stressed out with the whole situation with my wife and the long commutes and doing plan A. I have been texting my wife at late hours, trying to communicate with her almost all the time.
I was having chest pain, severe, and was stressed out with the whole situation with my wife and the long commutes and doing plan A. I have been texting my wife at late hours, trying to communicate with her almost all the time.
Can you go to your doctor and get some ADs or anxiety-meds?
I was having chest pain, severe, and was stressed out with the whole situation with my wife and the long commutes and doing plan A. I have been texting my wife at late hours, trying to communicate with her almost all the time.
I've been there, chest pains, anxiety and hospital. Make sure you get sleep and exercise. Eat healthy. Part of Plan a is taking care of yourself.
Something's she has said or done recently: 1. Said if we get back together that I shouldn't think about her being with those other men. 2. Plans to go with two of her female friends to a News Year party at a hotel... 3. She wants to be a better mother, communicator, and wife. 4. She wants to go to another church as a family... 5. While I was in the hospital, she said I love you too. (only time she has said it recently)
What should I think of all these actions and statements? I know, I shouldn't trust anything she does or say at this moment.
Something's she has said or done recently: 1. Said if we get back together that I shouldn't think about her being with those other men. 2. Plans to go with two of her female friends to a News Year party at a hotel... 3. She wants to be a better mother, communicator, and wife. 4. She wants to go to another church as a family... 5. While I was in the hospital, she said I love you too. (only time she has said it recently)
What should I think of all these actions and statements? I know, I shouldn't trust anything she does or say at this moment.
You have to watch her actions. If she is really serious about recovery she will have to live by some ironclad EPs/boundaries.
Going with girlfriends to a NYE party at a hotel is a huge red flag that she isn't serious about boundaries.
I think you are still in a very fuzzy Plan A. Things need to be ironed out on your part. Its a busy week as it is the Holidays, but we need to help you iron out the wrinkles in your Plan A when things slow down. Your plan is still incoherent and I sense that your emotions buffet you around like a small ship in stormy seas.
And under no circumstances should your wife go to that NYE party without you. The fact that it was even considered is evidence that you two are nowhere close to fixing this mess.
I think you are still in a very fuzzy Plan A. Things need to be ironed out on your part. Its a busy week as it is the Holidays, but we need to help you iron out the wrinkles in your Plan A when things slow down. Your plan is still incoherent and I sense that your emotions buffet you around like a small ship in stormy seas.
And under no circumstances should your wife go to that NYE party without you. The fact that it was even considered is evidence that you two are nowhere close to fixing this mess.
I agree, and based off her actions, I almost feel like going the other way now. I am starting to feel like Jon and SAA. My lovebank is starting to turning into not loving her and into dislike. She say's little comments without thinking like, "if we are still together you can't let the images of me and the other men get in the way."
VENTING:We are going to leave tomorrow for York PA. I am starting to do a lot of thinking and feel like not having sex with her now... not because I don't want to per say but because the thought of it is I feel like a nobody in the sack with her now. 2 men have been with her and pleased her and she says things that makes me do the double think.
For example, I shaved down below and she said she doesn't like that. I never done that before... so it leads me to believe that one of the guys already done that and she didn't like it.
I find her still attractive but when we make love, it is hard not to imagine her saying those things or saying things that better stroke their ego and comparing them to me and saying they are much better than me...
I am just venting but I am going to stick to PLAN A. I am doing better, and I am getting sleep and exercising. I think I must of overworked myself.
Plan A is carrot and stick. I see you doing a fair amount of carrot and no stick?
Do we even know if these affairs are over?
She seems to be running this show and that's unacceptable. How about telling her what it will take to keep YOU in the marriage?
Don't be afraid to be tough. For instance, on the new year party plan the answer is NO. She simply can't go galivanting around town and if she wants to do that, then she's giving up the marriage.
All too often I see this soft pedaling with wayward wives. Women don't respect men who let them walk all over them. Be nice and polite when speaking with her but let her know in no uncertain terms what it will take to keep you in this marriage.
She's a serial cheat running roughshod over you and causing stress reactions. Draw the line and if she crosses it, THAT'S IT.
I am a former WW and for weeks now I've been thinking you need more stick in your plan A. You really have nothing to lose. This lady needs a wake up call to know you're not going to hang around and take the crumbs from the table.
Should I do this on our trip as well, and be tough or should I just make this an enjoyable experience as much as it can be.
I will be monitoring from my smartphone on the trip here and there so let me know and I will keep you all posted.
Zibbles, I appreciate a Former WW coming in and telling me.
Originally Posted by zibbles
Do we even know if these affairs are over?
From the evidence gather I would say yes.
Originally Posted by zibbles
She seems to be running this show and that's unacceptable. How about telling her what it will take to keep YOU in the marriage?
Like asking for NC letter and changing Jobs/quitting and not going to new years eve party.
Originally Posted by zibbles
Don't be afraid to be tough. For instance, on the new year party plan the answer is NO. She simply can't go galivanting around town and if she wants to do that, then she's giving up the marriage.
I am working on this. Standing up for myself has been hard especially in this case because she keeps bringing up my porn use and everything. And she says basically the marriage is even stevens.
Originally Posted by zibbles
All too often I see this soft pedaling with wayward wives. Women don't respect men who let them walk all over them. Be nice and polite when speaking with her but let her know in no uncertain terms what it will take to keep you in this marriage.
Originally Posted by zibbles
I am little confused. So I should tell her what it takes or not tell her what it takes. I might be reading this one wrong. She's a serial cheat running roughshod over you and causing stress reactions. Draw the line and if she crosses it, THAT'S IT.
I hate to say it but I am ready to walk out right now in a way based off her lip service vs her actions. I set a date in my phone to when I will stop Plan A and do Plan B.
Originally Posted by zibbles
I am a former WW and for weeks now I've been thinking you need more stick in your plan A. You really have nothing to lose. This lady needs a wake up call to know you're not going to hang around and take the crumbs from the table.
Just MHO.
So I have to be ready to check out? I will let her know after Christmas.
VENTING:We are going to leave tomorrow for York PA. I am starting to do a lot of thinking and feel like not having sex with her now... not because I don't want to per say but because the thought of it is I feel like a nobody in the sack with her now. 2 men have been with her and pleased her and she says things that makes me do the double think.
For example, I shaved down below and she said she doesn't like that. I never done that before... so it leads me to believe that one of the guys already done that and she didn't like it.
I find her still attractive but when we make love, it is hard not to imagine her saying those things or saying things that better stroke their ego and comparing them to me and saying they are much better than me...
I am just venting but I am going to stick to PLAN A. I am doing better, and I am getting sleep and exercising. I think I must of overworked myself.
I'd be afraid to have sex with her too, since she has already confessed to having multiple affairs including anal sex with a coworker. Thats one of the best ways to get aids.
Just take this opportunity to make as many love bank deposits as possible. And if shes on her phone, accidentally spill coffee on it or something.....or just call an end to the trip. Try to use this to make love bank deposits and avoid love bank withdrawals.
Every time her infidelity is mentioned is causes love bank withdrawals.
Be a salesman; IF she brings up marriage say : "I am willing to work with you to create a romantic marriage where both of our needs are met but you must first end your affair"
Dont discuss further than that. If she is willing to commit to that come back to the forum.
Be a salesman; IF she brings up marriage say : "I am willing to work with you to create a romantic marriage where both of our needs are met but you must first end your affair"
Dont discuss further than that. If she is willing to commit to that come back to the forum.
Well my wife just texted me and sais she is sorry for hurting me and disrespecting me.
What should I say into response to that?
Sorry sorry sorry. What good is that word? If I come up and punch you in the face, then say Sorry Samurai.... And then punch you again (I'm not like Mike Tyson, I dont have knockout punches so this can go on for hours.....) And say Sorry! And punch again.....
The word is meaningless. Changed behavior is what matters.
I am going to wait a bit to do any other discussing. She isn't saying much to me and some of her actions are not matching what she says or meeting my expectations.
"Added Note": I might of said this before but I am starting to feel indifferent towards her because we are not 2 months into separation and everything and like I said, she is not doing what I expected.
I am going to wait a bit to do any other discussing. She isn't saying much to me and some of her actions are not matching what she says or meeting my expectations.
"Added Note": I might of said this before but I am starting to feel indifferent towards her because we are not 2 months into separation and everything and like I said, she is not doing what I expected.
Feelings follow actions, CS. If both of you follow the plan, your love banks will re-fill. But she has to be willing to follow your EP's.
I am going to wait a bit to do any other discussing. She isn't saying much to me and some of her actions are not matching what she says or meeting my expectations.
"Added Note": I might of said this before but I am starting to feel indifferent towards her because we are not 2 months into separation and everything and like I said, she is not doing what I expected.
Feelings follow actions, CS. If both of you follow the plan, your love banks will re-fill. But she has to be willing to follow your EP's.
She hasn't agreed to anything and won't until the affair has died a natural death
She is going out with the one friend and some others including her family. It triggered me and I said something about her and this friend and she said the following:
, if we are going to move on these kind of reactions have to disappear cause I can't live like that
, If we are going to work things out we are going to have to work really work on these reactions cause I just can't live like that everyday. That's the truth
, You can express things by if you can't let go of certain things and they keep coming up that's not moving on
Vets correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like she want him to shut up and let her do her own thing whether its have an affair or party. Serious independent behavior going on here that makes it easier to keep her SSL.
Basically what she is wanting is for you to forgive and forget. She has NO desire to change behavior. She hasn't even committed to ending her affair. She may just be meeting him, or the coworker there for sex.
Basically what she is wanting is for you to forgive and forget. She has NO desire to change behavior. She hasn't even committed to ending her affair. She may just be meeting him, or the coworker there for sex.
For the sake of your child, I would continue Plan A. And take it up a step. Are you praying to God to place hedges around your wife? Have you read Hosea?
CS, I'm really sorry. It's clear that your wife is not not on board and her pattern won't change if she is not willing to change. You are not safe.
The best thing you can do is make an appointment with one of the Harley's. See if she will meet also.
Counseling with them is expensive, but much, much cheaper than a divorce.
I think this would just be a waste of money. This woman is a serial cheater and unwilling to end her affair. Telephone coaching won't help much. She might participate but she won't change. He doesnt stand a chance at recovery until the affair has died a natural death
I think your greatest ally in this is her father. I would reach out to him and tell him "I want to say my marriage and I have a plan from a Christian counselor on how to save it but your daughter must permanently end her affair. She recently confessed to me that she has had sex acts with other men besides the relative OM and I want our daughter raised in a Christian home with two parents that love each other. Can you please help persuade your daughter to permanently end her affairs and running around town?"
CS, I'm really sorry. It's clear that your wife is not not on board and her pattern won't change if she is not willing to change. You are not safe.
The best thing you can do is make an appointment with one of the Harley's. See if she will meet also.
Counseling with them is expensive, but much, much cheaper than a divorce.
I think this would just be a waste of money. This woman is a serial cheater and unwilling to end her affair. Telephone coaching won't help much. She might participate but she won't change. He doesnt stand a chance at recovery until the affair has died a natural death
People can change, and if CS is willing to fight for his marriage, then he may be willing to exhaust all his options.
She has not gotten on board with the program, but she hasn't met with the Harley's. I've heard that Steve is very persuasive.
I would just sit down with the father in law and actually tell him that she's confessed to having anal and oral sex with coworkers and that she's going down a very bad path. Make sure he knows she may get aids and die if this continues
My FIL told me that. He knew about the other affairs because she told her Mom and she told him. I told him as well and he said I have decisions to make. He said I am better man then him because he is no sure how long he could do what I am doing. He thinks I should detach from her...
He knew about the other affairs because she told her Mom and she told him.
It is horrible, but innocent family members are often held hostage by the affair as well. What do they do tell and risk losing their intact extended family, or keep silent and have the lies they are holding in flash before their face every time they see you.
We struggle with that with my W's family every day as my FIL cheated on my MIL since the 1950's and he is still doing dishonest deeds. I'm honoring my W's request to keep quiet, but it is revolting.
I was off because I had to leave work and take train home and go to anger management. My father in law is threatening to kick her out of the house if she talks to anyone else under his roof.
I am remaining faithful. I have boundaries up to avoid straying from the marriage.
If he said it before then hes obviously not doing what he said he would. I would try to hold him accountable. Do you go to his church? In sunday school I would make a prayer request that My wife end her affairs and commit to a Godly marriage.
My father in law is my pastor. I still go to church there. He would need some concrete evidence. He also told me he is going to force her to make a decision because she needs to be with me he said and my daughter needs to be with me.
He is actually looking for a new job which would require him to move to somewhere else.
I'm worried about you CS? What are doing for yourself? Do you get to see your DD at all? What about your health? Are you exercising? How's that anger management class going. I would also suggest you take a parenting class. Make sure they are both documented in case in the future you have to fight for custody. Remember Plan A is only good if it isn't harmful to you and you need to take care of yourself.
Did you see the wife today? Talk to her on the phone? What are the interactions like?
I saw her today, she has been sick but I mainly focused on my daughter. I texted her on the phone. She tells me she wants to see me and how she feels. Yesterday I shared what happen between me and a coworker and she called her a slut and got upset because i defended her. She also has been upset latelty, because she feels i don't think she is important because she asked me to do something and i made mistake so she thinks i don't listen to her.
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
What is your housing situation? Are you stable with a job?
Can you raise your daughter as a single parent if needed?
How often are you spending time with your daughter?
Can you please update daily what time you spend with them so we get a clear picture?
I am stable with my job. I technically couldn't raise my daughter on my own because of my job and commute. I mean I can support her. I will update daily from now on with the time I spend with them. I normally spend an hour or so with my daughter a day. My wife is there but because they are at her parents house, she doesn't say anything to me to express how she feels. She may interact with me or she will just go and do her own thing.
Originally Posted by TranquilDark
I'm worried about you CS? What are doing for yourself? Do you get to see your DD at all? What about your health? Are you exercising? How's that anger management class going. I would also suggest you take a parenting class. Make sure they are both documented in case in the future you have to fight for custody. Remember Plan A is only good if it isn't harmful to you and you need to take care of yourself.
I have stopped exercising because of an injury which i have to go get xrayed. I am waiting to get my STD results. I am not really doing anything for myself. I just started anger management and I am putting that in to practice already and I am going to IC next Tuesday.
Updated on 1/8/2013: I sent my wife some poems and texted her that I was concerned for her health since she has been sick. I went to visit my daughter and I played with her for an hour. I hid a card in my WW's coat with some encouraging messages. She asked my daughter if I wanted to help put her to bed and so I did. They were low on diapers and pull ups so I went and go some while picking up my medication.
My WW calls me and asks me to go to the store to get her a Java Chip drink from starbucks and some cookies for a co-workers birthday. I get the cookies and then I get the drink, but I got the wrong one. I was excited to get it to her because I figured she would think good about me.
She later says she shouldn't have ask me to do that. I was bummed by that statement, because for some reason it made me felt used. I drop the stuff off and she kept texting me and i left the phone in the van to charge while going inside a place to get something to eat. Because i got her the wrong drink she saids the following: "Do you always not listen to me because I'm not important to you?"
I express to her how upset i was that I failed and even said something on the lines I will probably never get it right. She should find somebody else.
she responds. You didn't listen to what I said, you said go find someone else and I appreciate you going for me I really do. I appreciate a lot you do, but you always get like this when you don't pay attention. Why not just say oh sweeties i'm so sorry. please forgive me and acknowledge that maybe i feel hurt for you not listening. and then i will just be ok. but no you always go off the deep end. and now you you're hurt and goodnight to me.
I say that actually makes a lot of since when you put it like that. I apologized and try to resolved the issue right then and there, this all over text. I share an article with her from Love and Respect as I explained to her how her question made me feel and said she feels like she is being attacked.
She said that sometimes i think you read too much. that just makes me feel like not even trying anymore.
I asked her why you want to give up now.
Because is this how you're always going to be now she says.
I explain to her I am trying to improve our relationship by reading and figuring out things.
She retorts: 1. You can't learn everything about a relationship from reading those books, you have to actually live it!
2. I told you something that upset me or made me feel unimportatn and then you send me an article that basically is like i'm attacking you.
I told her I just wanted her to understand my point of view. then she retorts "it like you say you get it, or understand or your sorry then it like you attack me with something."
I tell her i just wanted you to understand me,
She says it's not always a good time to point things out at someone at that moment when they already feel unimportant already.
I apologized that I made her feel unimportant. She says I forgive you but I am hurt at the moment. I'm, sorry
I say I am sorry too, i should of addressed your emotions and discussed what I can do.
she send me a sad face and thats the end of the discussion.
Your lack of attention to detail when it comes to her is an annoying habit. Her sense of entitlement is like a selfish demand.
Don't use articles--even ones from MB--to defend yourself. That will further drive a wedge. Instead, read them yourself and put them into practice on your end. You can only clean your side of the street at this time. Once she decides to reconcile with you, make it a condition that she read Dr. Harley's books with you.
Both of you tend to fly off the cuff. You need to direct your actions from a logical and strategic Plan A, not your emotions.
I am not sure, how to really work on this one. I guess I can start to write things down as she tells me. I have had this problem for a long time..
An excellent idea.
I have heard the idea that the person who has a hard time to listening sits down and has a notebook with them. When their spouse tells them the issues that bother them they write it down in the notebook.
Hi CS, I've been following your thread. This last incident resonates a lot with me.
My FWH is so easily distracted and forgets details about what I say to him, special details. I read your exchange with your W and that could have been us a few monts ago. I agree with your W, is very hurtful to say something and have your partner not pay attention, but I also agree that she is LBing you. She has to stop that.
Writting in a note pad is a very good idea. Not only you are trying to fix the problem, but you are showing her that you do care about what she is saying.
Are you currently talking in person? I would avoid texting while mad/sad/angry etc. Is hard to comunicate when you are face to face, so let along through texts. Specially since she already made up her mind that you don't find her important, anything you say is going to sound careless to her, even if you don't mean it.
Hello CS, You mentioned that you have a long commute and a smart phone. Do you have the Marriage Builders Radio App? Can you listen to that during the commute?
I've learned a lot from listening to the radio show.
One example that I have heard Dr Harley say:
When you are communicating that something your spouse is doing that bothers you, say "It bothers me when you do __."*** ***And you stop yourself from saying from explaining WHY.
He said once people start explaining "WHY" it is where the calm discussion gets into trouble. If you she asks why you feel this way, stick with the "when this happens, I feel this way."
I know that when I used to try to explain why I say something, we both start getting defensive and emotions and anger escalates.
Brainhurts, do you have any radio links about "why to avoid getting in the WHY?" I think I remember hearing it in the mid-late summer.
Hello CS, You mentioned that you have a long commute and a smart phone. Do you have the Marriage Builders Radio App? Can you listen to that during the commute?
I've learned a lot from listening to the radio show.
One example that I have heard Dr Harley say:
When you are communicating that something your spouse is doing that bothers you, say "It bothers me when you do __."*** ***And you stop yourself from saying from explaining WHY.
He said once people start explaining "WHY" it is where the calm discussion gets into trouble. If you she asks why you feel this way, stick with the "when this happens, I feel this way."
I know that when I used to try to explain why I say something, we both start getting defensive and emotions and anger escalates.
Brainhurts, do you have any radio links about "why to avoid getting in the WHY?" I think I remember hearing it in the mid-late summer.
Update 1/9/2013: I worked from home today, and again apologized for not listening yesterday. I went over there after work and played with my daughter for 2 hours and a half. She and I did not really communicate. I wasn't feeling good, due to a possible pinch nerve in my neck and I wasn't feeling good due to starting to get a cold that is going on around here. She just laid down on the sofa and dose off here and there because she is sick as well. She did mention to me she thinks our daughter might have autism. She asked if that bother me, and I said no because I don't think she has it, she's just a little girl, but I said, if she is diagnose with it then I will learn to manage that. I would be there for my daughter no matter what.
As she was getting ready for work, I try to check her phone...she changed the passcode on it...
I was a little perturbed about that. Then as I was leaving, I was telling her I have to work with certain people, mainly this girl that she is jealous of for seeing me more. I told her I wasn't trying to make her jealous when I told her. She asked me what was wrong, and I said my body, it aches from this possible pinch nerve. The doctor gave me anti-immflamatory medicine for it. What I was trying to do is be transparent and tell her what's going on.
Part of me feels like checking out of this because she is not taking any responsibility and I know I shouldn't at this point but I mean she
I know there will be more information coming tonight cause while she is at work we will probably be texting back and forth.
why don't you have custody of your daughter? Is her affair dead? I would get custody of your daughter because who knows what spin she is putting into that little girls mind. You ever thought of calling into the show? I wouldn't out too much faith in FIL. In laws try to stay neutral (in their minds anyway) and are enablers. If your FIL is a pastor why doesn't he suggest to his daughter to go home or better yet refuse to house her because she lost her family for an affair. That smells fishy to me I wouldn't trust him to do the right thing.
Hello CS, You mentioned that you have a long commute and a smart phone. Do you have the Marriage Builders Radio App? Can you listen to that during the commute?
I've learned a lot from listening to the radio show.
One example that I have heard Dr Harley say:
When you are communicating that something your spouse is doing that bothers you, say "It bothers me when you do __."*** ***And you stop yourself from saying from explaining WHY.
He said once people start explaining "WHY" it is where the calm discussion gets into trouble. If you she asks why you feel this way, stick with the "when this happens, I feel this way."
I know that when I used to try to explain why I say something, we both start getting defensive and emotions and anger escalates.
Brainhurts, do you have any radio links about "why to avoid getting in the WHY?" I think I remember hearing it in the mid-late summer.
I do have the marriage builders app and I have called in and emailed them.
why don't you have custody of your daughter? Is her affair dead? I would get custody of your daughter because who knows what spin she is putting into that little girls mind. You ever thought of calling into the show? I wouldn't out too much faith in FIL. In laws try to stay neutral (in their minds anyway) and are enablers. If your FIL is a pastor why doesn't he suggest to his daughter to go home or better yet refuse to house her because she lost her family for an affair. That smells fishy to me I wouldn't trust him to do the right thing.
1. I don't have custody because I have a long commute to dc. Right now, my daughter doesn't know what's going on even though she asks me to live with her and stay. 2. MY IL are enablers in my opinion, but they are trying to do what they think is right I guess. 3. I will give him the benefit of the doubt... I wish he would kick her out but he won't unless she contacts anyone else... 4. I am pretty sure the affairs are dead now. I have checked phone records and I am going to make another request soon for my text information.
Her ME You ok? What do you mean when you ask that? Are you ok You've been quiet lately ...are you ok? I'm sick [/color] It took you that long to write that [color:#CC0000]Talk to me Not sure what to say... Ok? I'm sick too Why? Why aren't you sure what to say? What's going on? I got to take my meds... My chest is starting to really hurt... Why? Cause you don't want to talk to me? Why do you think that? Cause when we try to talk then your chest starts to hurt It's fine. If you don't wanna talk then ill talk to you later
Alrighty then... I am ok to talk to you. I just took my medicine I tried to get you to talk I just don't feel like bringing up my emotions about past situations because it does no good Like whT I just been doing my anger management exercises... And figuring out what I really feel Ok? And? I just feel hurt, betrayed, deceived, insecure And I want to move pass these feelings Ok I'm sorry How do you think I felt before The same I am sure... Yup I am sorry I caused you to feel that way Some days I just don't know if this is going to work Truthfully me either... I read all these stories about how couples survived this but when compared to us... Things are just missing for moving on.. You read too much I read because I am looking for hope No ones story is our story You look for things that aren't going to be in our story or there's things in our story that won't be in someone else's story If you wanted to truly get back together and move pass this what do you want from me to do say let's reconcile? Our story is unique somewhat that I admit Everyone's stories is very different because each person and the way they act or don't. Act is very different. Some days you act fine and great and normal and some days it's like you're crazy and that scares me What do you mean crazy? It's like you are acting crazy Or something wrong I can't explain it Can you give me an example? Think of something recently? I really can't explain it One you talk to yourself under your breath You get upset or crazy looks You act different I really can't explain. It I will no longer talk under my breathe. I am not sure about the crazy upset looks you are referring to?
Most of these things are me expressing myself... Not in a crazy way but really in a hurt emotional way.. When I talk undery breathe it's because I don't like sharing my thoughts if I think there is going to be a conflict. I don't get the crazy look thing though. I do realize when I am getting angry my face and everything tenses up I honestly want to be with you and get out of all these bad habits that contributed to the marriage I am honestly for the most part just going through a range of emotions and I would love to have you there to share with And honestly I feel that you don't want to be with me anymore... Now that I think of it, I feel like you really haven't forgiven me Haven't forgiven you!, ??? ???, Have you? Haven't i I honestly don't know And by the way I am feeling better talking to you if you wanted to know Maybe I just need to get all this off my chest to move on It always makes a person feel better to get stuff off their chest And forgiving you I think I've had to do that a lot For example... If I am going to truly forgive you... And I truly do... I never want to mention affairs again... I want to live like they never happen. But it doesn't mean we shouldn't live protecting ourselves from them Just like my porn addiction. Yeah The reality is just want to live secured and move pass this a so be a good father and husband and restore romantic love back to our marriage and look further down the road and say we overcome many obstacles and continued to serve God and honor His name I don't want some fancy video game, martial art belt, or computer. I just want a happy victorious marriage and life Money doesn't matter Sex doesn't matter I just want communication and a happy family. I just want my wife and kids to be happy. I just want them to feel loved by me I am scared that I will fail them in many ways but I will never give up I just want to know that you will always be there for me Wow! What? I feel much better. That's why I am having problems letting to of my parents If your not there then I feel like I have no one That was very mature statements you made Huh? What about your parents? If your not in my life I was afraid of being alone and I basically would only have them... But 1. You wouldn't be alone. And 2. I'm not saying I'm not going to come back and live in the house anymore but even if I didn't I would still be in your life always I just wanted to share that... Those are some of the things that been bothering me
When you talk to her keep the talk light and fun. DO NOT TALK ABOUT FEELINGS/RELATIONSHIPS! When you do that you tend to lovebust or come off needy. If you are sick you should of let her know that and invite her over to make you some chicken soup or something. Flirt with her, talk about happy memories of fave tv shows. I still feel, take it with a grain of salt, she is having an affair.
She called to get her CS fix, next time set something up as family. Like a movie or circus park picnic something like that. You need to remind her that you two share a bond that those other SOBs don't have. Your daughter! The trick is to do it subtle like otherwise it comes of as fake. Next time you see your daughter bring a book and read with her. Bring a gift for your WW as well. Her fave coffee or chocolate something inexpensive yet thoughtful. When WW notices invite her to join. I would also look for employment else where. That commute is draining you and your the only sane parent your DD has. Because of your job you don't have time for her and if you can't fit time in your life for your DD how do you expect your WW to think you can do it for her?
Also, you can bring a kids movie to watch with DD and invite WW to join. Make some popcorn and have a movie night. Don't be upset if WW doesn't join, just smile and say maybe next time. Get creative with your time with your DD remember you want her memories of you being a strong, fun father. Your DD will then be more vocal of your lack of presence due to your WW. She will voice it to WW. If you need any more ideas on how to lure WW into the fold or fun things to do with DD let me know. I'm here for you man, it's had I know but remember she married you for a reason your job is to remind of that because waywards like to delete memories to remove their own guilt. Don't be paralyzed by fear.
TD, Thank you for that. I will start dropping the feelings and relationship talk. I will work on setting up family like events. I will bring a java chip drink since I messed that up last time.
My job requires I get up at 4 am to be there at 7am and I get home around 6pm. I work for the Federal government. I will look into getting a job closer to home.
Thank you again for the advice. I do feel like an affair is still going on because she has changed the password on her phone. I am going to do another inquiry of texts to see if she has been talking to one of those POSOMen or someone else...
Her ME You ok? What do you mean when you ask that? That reply is standoffish and invites an argument. Remember you don't want to argue a better reply would be I'm not feeling well coming down with a illness or something like that. Are you ok You've been quiet lately ...are you ok? When she ask you have been quiet lately she is gauging your feelings toward her. Silence equals not interested. A good response would of been (see above) followed by concern about your daughter. Is DD doing ok? What she doing now? Things of that nature and on the back end inquire about her sometime later in the convo. I'm sick [/color] It took you that long to write that [color:#CC0000]Talk to me Not sure what to say... Perfect opportunity to set up a visit. You could of said something like would you like to come over and nurse me back to health, followed with a LOL. Or invite her to coffee or something. If she would decline, no sweat. Just dust yourself off and try again. If your like me, I hate texting I would rather talk face to face. Your goal is to text your way to some face time. Ok? I'm sick too Why? Why aren't you sure what to say? What's going on? I got to take my meds... My chest is starting to really hurt... Her being sick is awesome you could of set up a sicnic. You go over there cook some chicken noodle soup and place a blanket outside if its warm or on the floor and watch movies and eat soup with her and DD. Don't tell her about your ailments. WAYWARDS ARE SELFISH she only cares about herself now and you telling her about your boo boos comes off wimpy. Now if she inquires be truthful. Why? Cause you don't want to talk to me? Why do you think that? (WW's name) I love talking with you, however I'm not a fan of texting want me to call or we meet up somewhere? Cause when we try to talk then your chest starts to hurt It's fine. If you don't wanna talk then ill talk to you later She is guilt shaming you here, switching blame. I put $$ when she wrote that she thought "oh well I tried talking to him but he's such a grump. Not my fault." Alrighty then... I am ok to talk to you. I just took my medicine (Insert apology) "I'm sorry if I am coming off grumpy, that is not my intention. How was your day?" I tried to get you to talk I just don't feel like bringing up my emotions about past situations because it does no good
Your reply is a fail, no emotional talk no relationship talk Like whT She's happy now cause she know you will lovebust her and then she can justify her actions. This point of the conversation you have lost control and became an emotional wreck. I just been doing my anger management exercises... And figuring out what I really feel NO, NO! This is you: "Hey WW look at me I'm fixing myself so you can come back" That's not what you want. Smooth and subtle. If she happens to text and inquire about your whereabouts and you happen to be in anger management tell her then. Don't broadcast it, comes off fake. Ok? And? I just feel hurt, betrayed, deceived, insecure And I want to move pass these feelings Ok I'm sorry How do you think I felt before The same I am sure... Yup I am sorry I caused you to feel that way Some days I just don't know if this is going to work Truthfully me either... I read all these stories about how couples survived this but when compared to us... Things are just missing for moving on.. You read too much I read because I am looking for hope No ones story is our story You look for things that aren't going to be in our story or there's things in our story that won't be in someone else's story If you wanted to truly get back together and move pass this what do you want from me to do say let's reconcile? Our story is unique somewhat that I admit Everyone's stories is very different because each person and the way they act or don't. Act is very different. Some days you act fine and great and normal and some days it's like you're crazy and that scares me What do you mean crazy? It's like you are acting crazy Or something wrong All waywards think you act crazy when you ruin their affair. Exposure, Plan A is all counterintuitive so to someone lost in the fog it makes no sense because your SUPPOSED TO BE A CRAZED MAD MAN but your not. Drives waywards wild, especially WWs because they almost always say how their husband is and or was abusive. Gives POSOM a knight in shining armor image when they aren't nothing but toads. I can't explain it Can you give me an example? Think of something recently? I really can't explain it Waywards lie and twist reality for their own justification so their memory is always altered and fractured. One you talk to yourself under your breath You get upset or crazy looks You act different I really can't explain. It I will no longer talk under my breathe. I am not sure about the crazy upset looks you are referring to? She's dropping hints about your annoying habits fix them. Most of these things are me expressing myself... Not in a crazy way but really in a hurt emotional way.. When I talk undery breathe it's because I don't like sharing my thoughts if I think there is going to be a conflict. I don't get the crazy look thing though. I do realize when I am getting angry my face and everything tenses up I honestly want to be with you and get out of all these bad habits that contributed to the marriage I am honestly for the most part just going through a range of emotions and I would love to have you there to share with And honestly I feel that you don't want to be with me anymore... Now that I think of it, I feel like you really haven't forgiven me Save this emotional stuff for us in the forum. Waywards like empathy. Haven't forgiven you!, ??? ???, Have you? Haven't i I honestly don't know And by the way I am feeling better talking to you if you wanted to know Maybe I just need to get all this off my chest to move on But you made her feel worse. That's what lovebusters do. If you want to get something off your chest talk to your male friends or us on the forum. Write a letter or email or just type then delete. Keep a journal. It always makes a person feel better to get stuff off their chest And forgiving you I think I've had to do that a lot For example... If I am going to truly forgive you... And I truly do... I never want to mention affairs again... I want to live like they never happen. But it doesn't mean we shouldn't live protecting ourselves from them When she brings up talk like that say "I am willing to work with you to create a marriage where both our needs are met". When you keep bringing up the affairs it turns into a bad convo. She will not want to talk to you. Just like my porn addiction. I hope you have this under control now. With professional help. Yeah The reality is just want to live secured and move pass this a so be a good father and husband and restore romantic love back to our marriage and look further down the road and say we overcome many obstacles and continued to serve God and honor His name I don't want some fancy video game, martial art belt, or computer. I just want a happy victorious marriage and life Money doesn't matter Sex doesn't matter I just want communication and a happy family. I just want my wife and kids to be happy. I just want them to feel loved by me I am scared that I will fail them in many ways but I will never give up I just want to know that you will always be there for me
Do not educate or preach. Makes an adult feel like a child when another adult who says we are equal partners soap box like that. "I am willing to create a marriage where both our needs are met." Says all that without the soap box. Wow! What? I feel much better. That's why I am having problems letting to of my parents If your not there then I feel like I have no one That was very mature statements you made Huh? What about your parents? If your not in my life I was afraid of being alone and I basically would only have them... But 1. You wouldn't be alone. And 2. I'm not saying I'm not going to come back and live in the house anymore but even if I didn't I would still be in your life always She's on the fence, your changes are showing and she is hedging her bets. She wants an easy way back where all her affairs are swept under the rug. She wants to cake eat, your job is to fill those needs you haven't been so there won't be any need for her to cake eat. I just wanted to share that... Those are some of the things that been bothering me
I'm not too good at quotes and stuff but there's my two cents. Plan A is also about taking care of yourself. Some folks on the forum swear by antidepressants. I don't take chemicals that alter my mind state. So, I run and work out for the same effect. I know you have health issues but running is a good stress reliever and it will also boost your energy and appearance. I'm up 5 am and I do a 3 mile run, wake DS up about 6am after I shower and I am at work by 7am - 5pm and while I'm there I run 3miles again during the day.
I'm military so I know what you mean but those statements come off as excuses. One day you have off sit down and do a schedule. See where you have free time to insert things to improve your health, mentally and physically. Be a man of action not reaction. Be a happy man around WW even though you feel like punching someone in the face. Oh and keep the conversation short, like I said waywards have short attention spans. Short, sweet, concise and flirty. Throw some compliments at her, WW you know I always liked your smile, voice you fill in the blank. When you talk to her face to face use her name, hold her hand maintain eye contact. I'm sure your using a smartphone, the notepad function can help if you forget things she says.
Type it in there and double check to make sure its right, even though you know for a fact you got it right. It shows her that she is important. If you have any problems ask her for advice. There's a good article on the website about letting your wife into your life. Not sure of the title, give it a read. Stay positive. Oh bring some crayons and a coloring book for DD and color with her. Make WW a card and you and DD sign it, things like that makes WW feel included in your life and you spend time with DD. It's a win-win, plus the card is something tangible for WW to hold on to and associate good thoughts of you with.
TD, Thank you for that. I will start dropping the feelings and relationship talk. I will work on setting up family like events. I will bring a java chip drink since I messed that up last time.
My job requires I get up at 4 am to be there at 7am and I get home around 6pm. I work for the Federal government. I will look into getting a job closer to home.
Thank you again for the advice. I do feel like an affair is still going on because she has changed the password on her phone. I am going to do another inquiry of texts to see if she has been talking to one of those POSOMen or someone else...
Sir, PLEASE focus on Plan A. Do NOT appear clingy or needing to her. DO appear strong, as in John Wayne strong.....have you watched his movies? If not watch some....The Searchers Is a good movie. Another good movie is High Noon.
I think you are having a hard time with Plan A and you have been at this for a while. It may be time to consider Plan B.
TD, Thank you for that. I will start dropping the feelings and relationship talk. I will work on setting up family like events. I will bring a java chip drink since I messed that up last time.
My job requires I get up at 4 am to be there at 7am and I get home around 6pm. I work for the Federal government. I will look into getting a job closer to home.
Thank you again for the advice. I do feel like an affair is still going on because she has changed the password on her phone. I am going to do another inquiry of texts to see if she has been talking to one of those POSOMen or someone else...
Sir, PLEASE focus on Plan A. Do NOT appear clingy or needing to her. DO appear strong, as in John Wayne strong.....have you watched his movies? If not watch some....The Searchers Is a good movie. Another good movie is High Noon.
I think you are having a hard time with Plan A and you have been at this for a while. It may be time to consider Plan B.
I think your right, Plan B might be the way to go...
I need to caution you: The only affair recovery program you should focus on is Surviving an Affair.
An FYI, Jedi. He didn't listen to you.
Seems Christian was posting (under a different name) simultaneously somewhere else (an individual NOT marital recovery board) and apparently the counselor you warned him not to see told him his wife should be the one fighting for him (in a perfect world maybe) and the other board full of mostly angry divorced and stuck unhappily married folk talked him into the 180 plan (she needs consequences, MB makes you take too much responsibility, she probably won't change anyway so you'll be better off without her) whereupon he distanced himself from his wife and filed for divorce hoping his wife would just magically snap out of it.
Haven't seen an update so maybe it'll work. A clock is right twice a day and sometimes finalizing a divorce does wake a cake eating wayward up a time or two. Shame he didn't commit and stick to his best chance of success here at MB, but it's his life.
Just thought you'd like to know that your advice, Jedi was dead on. Commit to one plan and avoid the well intended "counselor". If he was done emotionally, he should have done an MB plan B and waited. He could have distanced himself and gone dark hoping for the same effect to occur without proceeding to filing divorce. Filing divorce usually results in BEING divorced. Still wish Christian complete success in all his endeavors and would welcome him back here with open arms.
Mr. W
p.s. - it's strange but he posted and asked them about the MB plan so they, of course, could bash it but he didn't give us the same opportunity to bash their plan. Oh, never mind, answered my own question, they don't HAVE any plan(s). It's just a bunch of supposed peer experts and you get which ever such "expert" happens to be online reading your thread at any given time giving you, at their whim, their own very limited personal lay opinions and experience. Not to mention, such opinions and experiences are from persons, like us, that mostly failed at creating a successful happy marriages. It's like saying that Ethics classes should be taught by prison inmates because they have the most experience going back and forth across the ethical boundaries. People are turning to the internet for help saving their marriages and have no idea these other forums are hope-crushing wicked divorce facilitators. Marriage and the family are being attacked in so many different ways.
I thought about it, and those on the other board are just so do 180 and make her do the work. I know that would be the easier than to do but that has less results because in my WW mind it shows that I am not trying to be in the marriage and all this.
And as for you who think I can't do it. I will show you. I already have done some things. We spent time together and I haven't mention affair. As for IC and MC. Probably not good for the Marriage period at this point.
I also made list of things and she would like for V-day and going to go get them. I made some mistakes. I am going to post on both forums but I am going to follow this plan.
Some PLANS just need to be revised and re-thought out. I am going to focus on family things and making time. I didn't post on the other forum so they can bash it. I posted it so they can give me their feed back. There are too many groups and too many opinions about infidelity and whats the best way to deal with it.
There is no magic fix it plan and there is no guarantee that anything is going to work.
I am going to work on PLAN A. Exercise daily I recently got a cat for my family. I been staying up late texting my wife and talking to her on the phone, having pleasant conversations here and there. I have been spending alone time with her. I been writing sermons of my own. I am working on lifting myself up and just being somebody people/my WW would want to be around.
I made some mistakes along the way but I have been doing some reading and planning of my own. I am not going to file for divorce.
That group of people seem to think that pushing the already destructive spouse over the edge is going to make them wake up.
In my case, it might be an easy escape for them, but I have to show my WW she is worth fighting for and I want to be with her.
I haven't been clingy or needy. I keep conversations short. I don't speak like i am desperate. I you I feel and I communicate my feelings more clearer.
Now all I ask for is your prayers and support. I will take the burden on my shoulders and I will try to my best to keep posting on here daily. Right now, I am concentrating on Plan A.
And MR.Wondering, I will be on the other forums posting to vent and to encourage others.
I find it helpful to my healing. I am not going to try my best to support those here as well. I will not be giving advice because, 1. MY PLAN A has SUCKED and hasn't got any better yet. 2. I need to focus on myself and figure out from day to day
How to meet her needs without seeing clingy. For a while I was putting cards in her van at work but that doesn't seem to be very effective. So I started to just communicate with her more even though lately I have been tired from my late shift.
I thought about it, and those on the other board are just so do 180 and make her do the work. I know that would be the easier than to do but that has less results because in my WW mind it shows that I am not trying to be in the marriage and all this.
And as for you who think I can't do it. I will show you. I already have done some things. We spent time together and I haven't mention affair. As for IC and MC. Probably not good for the Marriage period at this point.
The problem with 180 and Divorce Busting is that they do not have a plan for restoring romantic love, which is Dr. Harley's top focus in recovery through the POJA and UA time.
Some PLANS just need to be revised and re-thought out. I am going to focus on family things and making time. I didn't post on the other forum so they can bash it. I posted it so they can give me their feed back. There are too many groups and too many opinions about infidelity and whats the best way to deal with it.
There is no magic fix it plan and there is no guarantee that anything is going to work.
Actually, Dr Harley says that if his plan is followed it WILL be successful. There is such a small margin of error that he is able to make this statement.
However, he warns that even small deviations from his plan for marital recovery can result in disaster.
So, if you are going to follow his plan you will need to do so wholeheartedly and not have it revised by other groups.
I made some mistakes along the way but I have been doing some reading and planning of my own. I am not going to file for divorce.
That group of people seem to think that pushing the already destructive spouse over the edge is going to make them wake up.
In my case, it might be an easy escape for them, but I have to show my WW she is worth fighting for and I want to be with her.
I haven't been clingy or needy. I keep conversations short. I don't speak like i am desperate. I you I feel and I communicate my feelings more clearer.
Those other groups say that divorce is a natural consequence of adultery and you should allow her to face consequences from her actions. Which is all true.
Valentines is coming up. Going all out could offer a chance to make big love deposits. Not one dozen roses, not two dozen. Try three or more! Might wow her.
Some PLANS just need to be revised and re-thought out. I am going to focus on family things and making time. I didn't post on the other forum so they can bash it. I posted it so they can give me their feed back. There are too many groups and too many opinions about infidelity and whats the best way to deal with it.
There is no magic fix it plan and there is no guarantee that anything is going to work.
Actually, Dr Harley says that if his plan is followed it WILL be successful. There is such a small margin of error that he is able to make this statement.
However, he warns that even small deviations from his plan for marital recovery can result in disaster.
So, if you are going to follow his plan you will need to do so wholeheartedly and not have it revised by other groups.
ChristianSamurai,
Please listen to this. The three BH know what they are talking about. Mr. W and Justthe3ofus have recovered with a WW. And Jedi may not have recovered his marriage, but he is one of our top MB success stories. He has full custody of his 3 angels.
Not only is Dr. Harley's program THE most successful, it is the only program that has a Plan.
Please stick to the Plan. You may not recover your marriage, but you will recover yourself.
Some PLANS just need to be revised and re-thought out. I am going to focus on family things and making time. I didn't post on the other forum so they can bash it. I posted it so they can give me their feed back. There are too many groups and too many opinions about infidelity and whats the best way to deal with it.
There is no magic fix it plan and there is no guarantee that anything is going to work.
Actually, Dr Harley says that if his plan is followed it WILL be successful. There is such a small margin of error that he is able to make this statement.
However, he warns that even small deviations from his plan for marital recovery can result in disaster.
So, if you are going to follow his plan you will need to do so wholeheartedly and not have it revised by other groups.
ChristianSamurai,
Please listen to this. The three BH know what they are talking about. Mr. W and Justthe3ofus have recovered with a WW. And Jedi may not have recovered his marriage, but he is one of our top MB success stories. He has full custody of his 3 angels.
Not only is Dr. Harley's program THE most successful, it is the only program that has a Plan.
Please stick to the Plan. You may not recover your marriage, but you will recover yourself.
I am going to follow dr. harley's plan. I am going to send them another email. But I plan to stick to plan A.
Some PLANS just need to be revised and re-thought out. I am going to focus on family things and making time. I didn't post on the other forum so they can bash it. I posted it so they can give me their feed back. There are too many groups and too many opinions about infidelity and whats the best way to deal with it.
There is no magic fix it plan and there is no guarantee that anything is going to work.
Actually, Dr Harley says that if his plan is followed it WILL be successful. There is such a small margin of error that he is able to make this statement.
However, he warns that even small deviations from his plan for marital recovery can result in disaster.
So, if you are going to follow his plan you will need to do so wholeheartedly and not have it revised by other groups.
ChristianSamurai,
Please listen to this. The three BH know what they are talking about. Mr. W and Justthe3ofus have recovered with a WW. And Jedi may not have recovered his marriage, but he is one of our top MB success stories. He has full custody of his 3 angels.
Not only is Dr. Harley's program THE most successful, it is the only program that has a Plan.
Please stick to the Plan. You may not recover your marriage, but you will recover yourself.
I am going to follow dr. harley's plan. I am going to send them another email. But I plan to stick to plan A.
Glad to hear this, Samurai. You were wildly inconsistent in your first attempts, but I hope you organize your plan and stick with it this go around. To echo what others have been saying, you have to be "all in" with MB for it to work.
No one here is wishing that you fail, CS. My advice to you is to post here daily and forget about the other forum. JK has given you the reasons and let me share my experience. I was on another forum before this one and it was all about revenge and let her do the work blah, blah, blah. They say here on MB that there are reasons for affairs but never excuses. Have you eliminated those reasons?
What are these big V day plans? You mind posting them here? That information might help others as well. As for not giving advice to others, I felt the same way because my Plan A in the beginning sucked hard. However, that experience might be very valuable to another poster and yourself. Thats why I post to others and share my experiences. MB is a cookie cutter program because all affairs are the same only minor differences. Dr. Harley's plan is very simple and to the point which makes it sucessful. Good luck and from your post you seem to get the mindset you should be in but that's only half of it. The rest is execution.
So my V-day plans. 1. Going to take her to a restaurant that she loves. Japanese Steak House. 2. Going to go the store and get all the gifts that she expressed she liked, and nothing from me besides a card that is very personal. 2.a) This will demonstrate I listen and get what she wants. She complains about this a lot so this will be my time to shine. 2.b) The card will be very personal. I will try to find little love notes that we used to write and make it into a booklet.
I am going to leave work early. Make sure I am dressed properly.
I am also going to do a special valentines for my daughter. I will make her a card and get some candy for her. Do a daddy/daughter type date.
So my V-day plans. 1. Going to take her to a restaurant that she loves. Japanese Steak House. 2. Going to go the store and get all the gifts that she expressed she liked, and nothing from me besides a card that is very personal. 2.a) This will demonstrate I listen and get what she wants. She complains about this a lot so this will be my time to shine. 2.b) The card will be very personal. I will try to find little love notes that we used to write and make it into a booklet.
I am going to leave work early. Make sure I am dressed properly.
I am also going to do a special valentines for my daughter. I will make her a card and get some candy for her. Do a daddy/daughter type date.
Any other suggestions welcome.
Good man!
In order to fill her love bank you need to meet the needs that are her biggest. Dr. Harley often says that men, for example, spend a ton of time cleaning house and buying things for their spouses but those deposits are simply not worth much if the wife has different needs at the top of her list. So just make sure that as you seek to fill her love bank in Plan A that you are spending your time filling the TOP needs that you already know she has. Has she ever filled out the needs questionnaire? If yes, focus on those.
I have not filled out her Needs questionnaire, but I am pretty sure I know what they are. I created a sue-do checklist on my phone to make sure I am doing certain things daily.
Not sure if I said it, but I will post it if I did. The weekend we went away together, I confronted him face to face. I didn't give him forgiveness but he did tell me he has not contacted her and she has not contacted him. He offered to give me his new phone number. I didn't take, but I have his wife's number. He's basically in hiding because family and friends have threatened to kill him.
Her father, has been standing on the sidelines basically as far as I can tell. He has talked to her somewhat and told me some things in private, such as she messed up. At one point, she asked how does she know I am the right man for her now. Her father told her, he proved himself to everyone and you have messed up and doesn't know if you are the right woman for me. He told her, that he says, if she doesn't change, he sees divorce in her future and her being miserable and possibly suicidal.
Sorry I didn't post anything Saturday or really much today. On my way to church. We spend some time together yesterday. I took my daughter out and we went swimming and had some lunch then my WW joined us. We went out to dinner as a family. We had some alone time after she put DD to bed and I went and got us some ice cream, her favorite treat from Starbucks and some reeses valentines candies that she said she liked. She got me two gifts, a scarf, because I lost my new one and a mouth guard for when I sleep. I said thank you.
I think we are making progress. Long as I keep up making myself a warming loving individual. I avoided sexual touch and made sure it was all affectionate. She did make a comment when I asked is it ok if I lay on her she said jokingly so you can grope me. I said no.
This morning she said she miss me. We talked a little bit more last night through text and fell asleep.
Well, off to make some more love deposits!
She is doing one major love buster right now that just walks me into a trap and it's hard to avoid and that's talking about my parents. I was calm and kept it short and honest and moved on. She thinks I should detach from them completely.... a whole other story that I think, if we R, then we can work on personally.
Today, I took my WW and DD out to eat. My WW tells me yesterday that she went out to eat with a couple of co-workers. She asked if it was just going to be them and guess who shows up.
DUH DUH DUH DUUUUH. AFP # 2.
She said she didn't talk to him and she wanted to tell me face to face but couldn't get me alone yesterday. He tried to text her and deleted it right away she said. She also said another guy try to contact her through Facebook and she deleted it and didn't response.
My reaction, calm and collective. I told her I appreciate her telling me and respect her for doing so. When of been nice she told me the day of but I was understanding and not judgmental. She sounded like she was more upset than me that he showed up.
We are not in R, yet but this sounds like a good start in my opinion.
Yea, but I better not say anything yet because it will come off as a love buster. I already expressed that I don't like her job as it is. She said she will talk to the IC/MC about it but she is like in love with this job but I expressed that I don't want to be marry to somebody that's not going to bed when I am going to bed.
Well, CS, you're right. You two are not in recovery. As long she has friends who are in the circle of her other boy toys and as long as she has a facebook account recovery is a long way off.
My main focus is to make love bank deposits and destroy the affair but also to make me seem less judgmental right now. I have a feeling once she gets closer and is willing to recover, then we can sit down and discuss what changes are needed to make this marriage to work.
She will have to learn and understand what is Just Compensation to make this marriage work.
I gave her credit in telling me some things even though she has still not proven to be trust worthy yet but these little steps I think should reward her a little, in compliments so she can feel safe and like she can talk to me.
It bothered me when she said she didn't read his text and just deleted it but that makes me feel like its somewhat of a lie, and I feel like she should of said I have to go instead of staying.
But I am living as if I am prepared to work on this marriage or I can move on. Once she is made up her mind to commit, I am going to sit her down and say NC letters to both men and job change and all. With this job she has, there is no way to spend some time together and meet each others emotional needs.
I thought OM #2 didnt work with her? Is he the relative or the one she confessed to having anal sex with? I thought that guy was gone?
My Relative is the one she had the 2 year affair and anal sex with. The OM is a former co-worker she had sex twice with between her LTA. He had left the job before their fling.
Too late to edit but I believe her that no one knew he was coming but the OM#2's friend. Anyway, I think she didn't handle this situation correctly. She should of left when he showed up.
I am not going to say anything until later. 1. It was over 24 hours she took to tell me., 2. She didn't show me text which shows lack of credibility. 3. She should of got me alone to talk and came home right away instead of going to the store afterwards.
Again, PLAN A. Make Love deposits and stop love bustering.
It seems like your more in plan CS rather than Plan A. It appears that you are taking zero action in trying to break up the active affair nor demanding no contact with past OM. This is all part of plan A you are omitting. You can't cherry pick the program and ezpect it to recover your marriage.
Dr Harley states, "Even slight deveations from the program will be disastrous."
Ok,I will have to find out where he lives and all. I am trying to follow the plan to the T. I do not want to deviate. I will investigate into this guy. I have his personal number...Should I contact him or no?
Ok,I will have to find out where he lives and all. I am trying to follow the plan to the T. I do not want to deviate. I will investigate into this guy. I have his personal number...Should I contact him or no?
Contact him the same day you expose to his mother and any relatives you find.
If his mother has a facebook account expose to her friends also.
For a small one time fee, you can use a site such ad Net Detective to get a complete background and profile, plus i believe you can get his e-mail address and phone number.
If you get a cell phone number instead of landline number you can use Reverse Cell Phone trace.
For a small one time fee, you can use a site such ad Net Detective to get a complete background and profile, plus i believe you can get his e-mail address and phone number.
If you get a cell phone number instead of landline number you can use Reverse Cell Phone trace.
LTL
I got phone numbers and address. I underestimate my computer abilities. I could technically trick him into meeting me if I wanted to.
Remember, Plan A is not sitting back and being afraid to upset the wayward spouse. Part of plan A is demanding that all aspects of the environment that led to the affair are removed. You cannot cower and be absent of assertiveness.
You have every right to RESPECTFULLY say how you feel about her not mentioning OMuntil 24 later and not excusexcusing herself immediately.
Remember, Plan A is not sitting back and being afraid to upset the wayward spouse. Part of plan A is demanding that all aspects of the environment that led to the affair are removed. You cannot cower and be absent of assertiveness.
You have every right to RESPECTFULLY say how you feel about her not mentioning OMuntil 24 later and not excusexcusing herself immediately.
Ok. I will say something. I have to stand up to her.
I would go over to his house and speak with his mother. If you see him do not get angry or violent just expose to his mother and tell him to stay away from your wife.
I would go over to his house and speak with his mother. If you see him do not get angry or violent just expose to his mother and tell him to stay away from your wife.
I am going over... I been going to anger management classes. Hopefully I will be ok.
I would go over to his house and speak with his mother. If you see him do not get angry or violent just expose to his mother and tell him to stay away from your wife.
I am going over... I been going to anger management classes. Hopefully I will be ok.
Good advice by TD. You are a hit man, and you are assassinating the affair, not the cheaters. So do it like hit men do, with cold blooded tactical precision.
My name is Bob and I came here because I have evidence that your son has been having an affair with my wife. We have a 3 year old daughter and the affair has devastated us. Can you please persuade your son to end his affair with my wife?
This advice sucks...sorry... but Harley wants to go to the guy and be cordial...Ahh! I rather whip his butt. Well, I better grow a pair and go over there.
Remember not think with your instincts and emotion focus on the plan at hand. A fight with POSOM will get you in trouble legally. Walk through what you are going to do when you meet him. Be respectful and non-threatening. I would also have a VAR your person as back up. Dr. Harley's advice on this is spot on in the long run, I know in the short term you rather see this scumsucker's face bruised and bloody but that wouldn't help you at all though. Make sure you talke with his mother as well.
Remember not think with your instincts and emotion focus on the plan at hand. A fight with POSOM will get you in trouble legally. Walk through what you are going to do when you meet him. Be respectful and non-threatening. I would also have a VAR your person as back up. Dr. Harley's advice on this is spot on in the long run, I know in the short term you rather see this scumsucker's face bruised and bloody but that wouldn't help you at all though. Make sure you talke with his mother as well.
CS, I would not be cordial to the guy. I'll share with you a story. When my wife and I first got married, we had mutual friends who were a couple. The husband was a snake with good looks, high status, and a lot of charm. He and my wife talked on the phone a couple of times without my knowledge, and he made a play for her. Seeing where this was heading, my wife came clean and told me before it developed beyond phone calls. As soon as she told me I went to his workplace and confronted him. I was anything but cordial. You should have seen the look of shock on his face when I told him with a straight and stern look, "You stay away from my wife." He denied and tried to con his way out of it, but I would have none of it.
Did you speak with his mother? Did you confront him?
I am still at work. This my turn into a weekend battle. I have to stay late. This freaking commute is killing me. This is what added to my marriage falling apart. I took the job to provide and yet I got used and abused.
This advice sucks...sorry... but Harley wants to go to the guy and be cordial...Ahh! I rather whip his butt. Well, I better grow a pair and go over there.
After relistening to the clips, did you hear the correct purpose Dr. Harley says to confront the OM?
I think the problem that so many betrayed spouses have is they don't approach this as a war. You fight three battles: 1) the battle to blow up the affair to smithereens, 2) the battle to show the wayward that you are their best alternative (making love bank deposits and avoiding love busters) and 3) the battle to protect yourself and your children legally (property and custody).
Wars that are fought passively and without assertiveness are lost. Wars that are fought thoughtfully with militant tactics are won. You have to go all in and you have to have a singular purpose. That is why the Art of War is referenced here by so many.
CS, I see improvements in your approach...finally! But be assertive and waste time no more. As I shared with you yesterday, when I was confronted with a threat to my marriage I did not waste a second. I went straight to the OM's work and surprised him. At his workplace! Can you imagine how blindsided he must have felt? That is a bomb that hits its target. Don't delay. Be assertive and show your Wayward wife that she is worth fighting for. And fight for what is yours, including your self-respect.
I think the problem that so many betrayed spouses have is they don't approach this as a war. You fight three battles: 1) the battle to blow up the affair to smithereens, 2) the battle to show the wayward that you are their best alternative (making love bank deposits and avoiding love busters) and 3) the battle to protect yourself and your children legally (property and custody).
Wars that are fought passively and without assertiveness are lost. Wars that are fought thoughtfully with militant tactics are won. You have to go all in and you have to have a singular purpose. That is why the Art of War is referenced here by so many.
CS, I see improvements in your approach...finally! But be assertive and waste time no more. As I shared with you yesterday, when I was confronted with a threat to my marriage I did not waste a second. I went straight to the OM's work and surprised him. At his workplace! Can you imagine how blindsided he must have felt? That is a bomb that hits its target. Don't delay. Be assertive and show your Wayward wife that she is worth fighting for. And fight for what is yours, including your self-respect.
Got it, friend?
Your right. I didn't see this as a war, because to be honest, so much was going on upstairs.
1. I wasn't sure if my WW was worth fighting for. Truthfully, she is not, but the woman I fell in love with before this creature showed up is. 2. I am myself and struggling with emotions for another woman, because she has made love bank deposits in my account. It all started because of my WW's dday #1. She open a door and left me feeling voided of respect and love. Guess, what, Co-Worker has been feeling that void, un-intentionally but then it happen. She asked me what's going on between me and wife because I said they don't live with me and I spilled the beans. I don't know if I am just feeding off of her is there something I am truly feeling. I know that is going to disappoint a lot of you because I am trying to fight for my marriage but I am just being honest and trying to do what is right. I have not and will not confess these feelings about the other woman to my wife or to the other woman because both it would be a huge love buster and not to mention put my marriage in a big jeopardy more than it already is. 3. Because of these things, I have actually thought about sabotaging my marriage and escaping from her, but I am not going to do that. I am just sharing this because you need to know what I am going through emotionally to get me back on track.
As for this WAR. Thursday, which I work from home, I will be going to OM#2's house and blowing up his battleship about the short term affair and telling him not to contact her anymore.
I need to work on avoiding love busters, such as joking. My wife is annoyed by that. I have to work on making stronger/bigger love deposits. Another thing, I notice, she seems to be threaten by the Co-Worker since I admitted somethings about her. I don't mention her anymore. I did tell her i already got her a gift and I made plans for her on Saturday to go out for V-day.
She open a door and left me feeling voided of respect and love.
Did SHE leave you feeling void of respect and love? Or were you perhaps relying on a human for your own feelings (rather than relying on God)? You mentioned in your very first post about bible study. What does the bible say about where we are supposed to go to have our voids filled?
Originally Posted by ChristianSamuari
Guess, what, Co-Worker has been feeling that void, un-intentionally but then it happen. She asked me what's going on between me and wife because I said they don't live with me and I spilled the beans. I don't know if I am just feeding off of her is there something I am truly feeling.
I know that is going to disappoint a lot of you because I am trying to fight for my marriage but I am just being honest and trying to do what is right.
Thank you for being honest. That way we can all hit you over the head with 2x4s and (hopefully) help you to STOP right in your tracks from making this awful situation even worse. We've ALL felt that void. We've ALL thought of going out and having a RA. In other words, we've ALL thought of diving head first into sinful behavior and becoming just as SELFISH as our spouse has. Because we do know that it is selfish evil behavior, and somehow we dream of topping their selfishness, right? Is that the proper mindset to have when we are asking God to help us to repair our marriage?
Originally Posted by ChristianSamuari
I have not and will not confess these feelings about the other woman to my wife or to the other woman because both it would be a huge love buster and not to mention put my marriage in a big jeopardy more than it already is.
GOOD to not jeopardizing things any more. As for not telling your wife, well I'll let the long time vets address that (and I'll be anxious to see what they think about your working with this woman).
Originally Posted by ChristianSamuari
I am just sharing this because you need to know what I am going through emotionally to get me back on track.
Good job!
Originally Posted by ChristianSamuari
Another thing, I notice, she seems to be threaten by the Co-Worker since I admitted somethings about her. I don't mention her anymore.
CS, Glad that you understand that you need to be 100% focused on Plan A. Remember that feelings follow actions. As you take action to win back your wife and recover your marriage, your feelings for her and hers for you will return.
Put aside the other lady and end contact for life. You are married and so any relationship you develop with her would constitute infidelity.
Also good that you recognize the problem with joking. While its great to be funny, going overboard in a way that your wife would regard as immature would be a big love buster.
Having followed this thread I see both of you as immature at this point, but this situation offers you a chance to grow up. That is the great thing about MB. Those who follow it grow and become a better person.
She open a door and left me feeling voided of respect and love.
Did SHE leave you feeling void of respect and love? Or were you perhaps relying on a human for your own feelings (rather than relying on God)? You mentioned in your very first post about bible study. What does the bible say about where we are supposed to go to have our voids filled?
Originally Posted by ChristianSamuari
Guess, what, Co-Worker has been feeling that void, un-intentionally but then it happen. She asked me what's going on between me and wife because I said they don't live with me and I spilled the beans. I don't know if I am just feeding off of her is there something I am truly feeling.
I know that is going to disappoint a lot of you because I am trying to fight for my marriage but I am just being honest and trying to do what is right.
Thank you for being honest. That way we can all hit you over the head with 2x4s and (hopefully) help you to STOP right in your tracks from making this awful situation even worse. We've ALL felt that void. We've ALL thought of going out and having a RA. In other words, we've ALL thought of diving head first into sinful behavior and becoming just as SELFISH as our spouse has. Because we do know that it is selfish evil behavior, and somehow we dream of topping their selfishness, right? Is that the proper mindset to have when we are asking God to help us to repair our marriage?
Originally Posted by ChristianSamuari
I have not and will not confess these feelings about the other woman to my wife or to the other woman because both it would be a huge love buster and not to mention put my marriage in a big jeopardy more than it already is.
GOOD to not jeopardizing things any more. As for not telling your wife, well I'll let the long time vets address that (and I'll be anxious to see what they think about your working with this woman).
Originally Posted by ChristianSamuari
I am just sharing this because you need to know what I am going through emotionally to get me back on track.
Good job!
Originally Posted by ChristianSamuari
Another thing, I notice, she seems to be threaten by the Co-Worker since I admitted somethings about her. I don't mention her anymore.
How long have you had feelings for the co-worker?
They started to blossom after DDay. I didn't think much of it until maybe a couple weeks ago when I opened up about my personal life and she opened up about hers. We communicated about work, and shared a little about relationships and how she is not looking for one. I took that as a sign that she didn't wasn't interested in me.
I read how affairs begin and at one point I didn't think much of her. I already written her off as threat because I realized I thought she was pretty, but then she started praising me, which I started getting suckered into, and then , she gave me her Skype contact and then I was able to communicate with her, in secret...
CS, Glad that you understand that you need to be 100% focused on Plan A. Remember that feelings follow actions. As you take action to win back your wife and recover your marriage, your feelings for her and hers for you will return.
Put aside the other lady and end contact for life. You are married and so any relationship you develop with her would constitute infidelity.
Also good that you recognize the problem with joking. While its great to be funny, going overboard in a way that your wife would regard as immature would be a big love buster.
Having followed this thread I see both of you as immature at this point, but this situation offers you a chance to grow up. That is the great thing about MB. Those who follow it grow and become a better person.
Yea, I think I joke, as a wait to bring laughter to our relationship because she is always uptight and serious and she finds stupid things to be funny. I want to stop joking period. We got married young.
Today, she love busters me and I am not sure how to combat the love busters besides telling her how it makes me feel.
Good example, she said "I want to play guitar" I said "We can take a class together and learn to play." She said, "Music is just not one of your talents dear."
I would reply, thanks for your honest opinion but I think music is a talent that is learned and I would like to take the class in order to get better, would you like to join? Or just ignore it all together and say thanks for being honest and change the subject.
I would reply, thanks for your honest opinion but I think music is a talent that is learned and I would like to take the class in order to get better, would you like to join? Or just ignore it all together and say thanks for being honest and change the subject.
Instead, I asked her, so what are my talents? She just randomly listed off some mediocre things...ehhh. I didn't let it deter me though.
Good, one thing about waywards they are masters of starting arguments and trapping you into making lovebusters. By not taking the bait your showed her how you changed. By avoiding the lovebusting behavior of your past you deprived the wayward of the only thing they use against you while in an affair, a twisted sense of "justification". That's why Dr. Harley says that eliminating lovebusters should be the first thing done in Plan A. We call it here on the forum "cleaning up your side of the street".
Your doing well but could you list your plan of confronting POSOM and his mother?
My plan, after my appointment, to stop by his house and just say the following: "I know you and my wife had a thing for a while, well we are working on our marriage and I appreciate it if you wouldn't contact her again at any point."
I can use my phone to record. I plan to be respectful, and say "Ma'am. My wife and your son have had a short term affair. My wife and I are currently working on our marriage and I would appreciate it if you can tell your son to not contact my wife again."
"I know you and my wife had a thing for a while, well we are working on our marriage and I appreciate it if you wouldn't contact her again at any point."
I would say instead,
"I know about the affair you and my wife were in. We are still married. Stay away from her."
Walk out slowly (backwards if he looks like he wants to engage in physical stuff) and leave the room.
"I know you and my wife had a thing for a while, well we are working on our marriage and I appreciate it if you wouldn't contact her again at any point."
I would say instead,
"I know about the affair you and my wife were in. We are still married. Stay away from her."
Walk out slowly (backwards if he looks like he wants to engage in physical stuff) and leave the room.
I would love if he wanted to have physical engagement. I like that better.
If he says something smart to me, then can I hit him?
"I know you and my wife had a thing for a while, well we are working on our marriage and I appreciate it if you wouldn't contact her again at any point."
I would say instead,
"I know about the affair you and my wife were in. We are still married. Stay away from her."
Walk out slowly (backwards if he looks like he wants to engage in physical stuff) and leave the room.
I would love if he wanted to have physical engagement. I like that better.
If he says something smart to me, then can I hit him?
Haha. We all feel like that. But don't let his bad karma become your bad karma. No violence. But no Mr. Nice Guy either. Be strong. Be firm. And have an exit strategy.
I chose not to confront the POSOM in my situation. I knew there would be no possible way that I could contain myself. I would be no good to my children in jail. I actually waited for him twice outside his home...didn't knock but waited..waited..to this day I am very glad he did not pop his head out.
This advice sucks...sorry... but Harley wants to go to the guy and be cordial...Ahh! I rather whip his butt. Well, I better grow a pair and go over there.
After relistening to the clips, did you hear the correct purpose Dr. Harley says to confront the OM?
You need to bring a friend that will be there as a witness and someone to help restrain you if there is any risk of trouble.
Years ago, you could have challenged him to a duel and shot and killed the lowly worm but unfortunately that's not allowed and the govrnment would place you in prison if you even punch him.....
Hopefully if you expose to his mommy that he lives with, she will end it
I'm here rooting for you Samurai! Make sure you use the plan of attacked outlined on your thread and have a friend go with you as suggested. I did when I attempted to confront POSOM as well. Make sure your friend isn't a violent fight starter but a calm cool collected individual.
Post OM 1 amd 2 on www.cheaterville.com and www.playerblock.com. playerblock will actually send a text message to the man and tell him he has been tagged as a cheater
The confrontation didn't happen. 1. We got hit with a lot of snow. So I was snowed in. 2. I think I am going to arrange to talk to doctor Harley, individually. 3. Going to confront after work. Now that I am back on my normal schedule. Going to see if I can get a friend to go with me, if not, oh well. I will record the conversation.
I pulled up to this house. Sit there.... I backed out. I just didn't feel good about the situation and yes I was alone. I waited for a bit and thought, let me just go knock on the door or wait for him to come out.
The reason you didn't feel good is because YOU DIDN'T HAVE A PLAN. You procrastinated and didn't do any proper planning for this confrontation. I suggest you list your plan here and check it off as you complete the steps.
1. get a proper var only 30 dollars or so at radio shack 2. have a cool headed friend go with you, brief your friend on your objective and let him know there will not be any violence. 3. Your main objective is talking with POSOM's mom. Do you have evidence of the affair? If so share it with her, if not just let her know that her son is having an affair with your wife and you would like her to use her influence to make him stop because you love your wife and marriage. 4. See Just's post about what to say to POSOM if you meet him.
Your pussyfooting will be the death of your marriage, think of all the other things you do on a regular basis consistently. You do them because you care about them so by not confronting you basically saying you don't care what your wife does and you don't care about your family. I am pretty sure that isn't your intent but a drunk driver doesn't intend to kill someone in a accident but it happens...
I pulled up to this house. Sit there.... I backed out. I just didn't feel good about the situation and yes I was alone. I waited for a bit and thought, let me just go knock on the door or wait for him to come out.
I am not sure why...Sorry to disappoint...
You need to expose this to his mother! This man is actively pursuing your wife and they have already had sex! Expose it!
OM # 2. I didn't say they took her out so she could see him. She was supposed to have dinner with 3 co-workers and he showed up.
One of the co-workers and him are good friends and invited him last minute.
Says who? I would strongly suspect the coworkers are "helping" her. That's what happened with my wife. They would invite her to go along with them knowing OM was going to be there because they knew "she liked to spend time with him".
OM # 2. I didn't say they took her out so she could see him. She was supposed to have dinner with 3 co-workers and he showed up.
One of the co-workers and him are good friends and invited him last minute.
Says who? I would strongly suspect the coworkers are "helping" her. That's what happened with my wife. They would invite her to go along with them knowing OM was going to be there because they knew "she liked to spend time with him".
Plus who told you he was there? WW? The same WW that lied to you repeatedly? Trust but verify my friend, I am 100% sure she volunteered that information to continue to cake eat. This is an active affair, expose, confront, keep calm. Women rarely have ONS
OM # 2. I didn't say they took her out so she could see him. She was supposed to have dinner with 3 co-workers and he showed up.
One of the co-workers and him are good friends and invited him last minute.
This is complete nonsense. He is actively pursuing her; he probably enjoyed the sex with her and wants more. You need to stop buying this nonsense she feeds you and focus on what you can control: Exposure to his mother!
Geez... Then let me request additional information from the phone company to see who she has been texting.
WW told me but I believe her. She doesn't lie straight out, she is more of a liar by omission.
You should of been doing this! Plan A isn't all sugar and rainbows:
1. Affair busting 2. Snooping 3. Self improvement
When you do a proper Plan A you set a benchmark of what the WS can respect and expect if they return. Your a federal employee and I am sure you have SOP (standard operating procedures) Plan A is the SOP for saving your marriage, you don't have the luxury of being lazy and making excuses. Exxcuses are missed opportunites, now if you want a divorce you can it is within your right. You need to decide and and follow a plan cause your making up Plan CS and that leads to failure!
I did not post him or the other man on the website, even though I signed up for it.
Post him on the www.cheaterville.com website. It is the best exposure site on the web. You need to speak to this mans mother ASAP
Did you do this? Also, how'd it go? I know I posted my POSOM on these sites JK said. Using my snooping, I found out POSOM and WW are fighting about this and she has defended me!
I haven't changed plans. I have been still doing Plan A. I didn't confront the OM#2 but I blocked his number from her calling/texting him and him calling/texting her. Confronting, I didn't feel comfortable so I know you guys recommend I should but every time I drove pass his house, I felt that I was going to just burst in and go to work on him and his mother.
Right now, we are still in Limbo. We mainly do things as a family but I am working on trying to get us two alone and spending time together. She seems like she is starting to reconnect with me slowly but surely. Kisses, hugs and telling me she loves me once in a while...
I think the fog is starting to lift a little bit, but because she still has LTAP necklace she is still I believe holding on to some of there memories which kind of makes it hard for the FOG to lift.
She has still been "LOVE BUSTING" me all over with talk about my family and other things around the house. Such as repainting the room, spending money, etc.
However, when these conversations come up, I gently confirm that I am working on all these issues and some of these things like painting I am not good at and would need your help.
She got upset that I took down the family picture in the house that she is wearing the necklace of the LTAP. I explained to her and she acted whatever about it. I removed some more pictures and put them in a folder.
We been communicating more over text. I been listening more and trying to re-phrase what she says to me so she knows I am listening and caring and I am not trying to give her a solution.
I have been doing things around the house such as cleaning more which I didn't do when she was here as much. I been showing I can take care of things around the house. I am trying to make the house more inviting, and we (I) have a cat now.
She is not home yet. This is what I am thinking of doing. A friend of mine gave me an idea. Create a fake facebook account, find friends of the OM's and exposed them to their friends and families.
Sorry, but I been real busy and trying to do some planning into my next course of actions. I will still post on the other sites.
Your actions indicate that you are picking and choosing which parts of the programs you will follow. A little MB, a little friend advice...advice from other sites.
You're making your own program and Dr. Harley is very clear that his methods must be followed without deviation.
I cannot offer further advice until you are committed to following Dr. Harley's program.
What's the difference from going online, and outing him to his friends and family via FaceBook? That is still exposure and I get both their friends and family involved.
That is plan A exposure. I am just doing it via a fake Facebook account that can't be traced to me.
What's the difference from going online, and outing him to his friends and family via FaceBook? That is still exposure and I get both their friends and family involved.
That is plan A exposure. I am just doing it via a fake Facebook account that can't be traced to me.
The problem with anonymous emails/messages is that they are rarely looked at seriously. In a good exposure letter that has that best chance of success, you are not only exposing the adultery, you are asking people who know you and know your wife to help support you in ending her affair. How can they do this if they don't know who the sender is?
What if I give out specific details? What if I name who the people are?
It could be anyone's gossip about two people if you don't identify yourself as the sender. It simply won't be as effective as you sending out the message as the betrayed husband asking for the help and support of your friends and family.
Other than your own fear and embarrassment, which I'm not discounting, there's no reason not to identify yourself. So many marriages have suffered from affairs that you are likely to get some support and understanding. An identified sender is so much more believable and effective than an anonymous message.
The first thing you should do is expose their affair to all family, friends, daughter and the church. You should do this all in one day.
This was posted to you 6 months ago, when you came here. At the rate you are going, a year may pass before you expose to the OM family and friends.
You come here for days at a time, then disappear and follow other websites. Then you come back later with different ideas.
Dr. Harley is very clear about exposure, but you debate what a friend told you and suggest sending anonymous messages. That sounds crazy, to send an anonymous message when your wife is sleeping around with these men and they probably tell their friends and make jokes about it.
Your name is Christian Samurai. Christianity is about truth. No need to make up false mysterious facebook accounts to expose adultery. Just tell the truth.
Most of the people family and friends know. This is easier said than done. The mind is filled with what if and consequences that will unfold, scenarios that I am not sure will happen do to my actions.
She has gone no contact and yet we are separated. I want to do what is right, and yes, truthful. I am going to reach out to Dr. Harley.
And honestly, I haven't been following anyone else's just been sticking with Plan A to my best and trying to figure out what I should be doing as well. I want get my marriage back, and I am trying hard to follow this plan.
This is easier said than done. The mind is filled with what if and consequences that will unfold, scenarios that I am not sure will happen do to my actions.
And honestly, I haven't been following anyone else's just been sticking with Plan A to my best and trying to figure out what I should be doing as well. I want get my marriage back, and I am trying hard to follow this plan.
Well, its a good thing you arent a Samurai in ancient Japan during war...standing on the battlefield thinking about what to do as the enemy is rushing towards you.
No, I seriously doubt that she is "No contact" with the other men. She told you that the coworkers tried to set her up with one of her affair partners; she works in the same job that facilitated a prior affair; she is living an independent life doing as she pleases...
While you are at home trying to decide if you should expose or not.
She's in full control and you're on the sidelines. Her lifestyle doesn't make NC possible and you have no way of knowing, other than trusting her words
Your right...makes me wonder am I wasting my time, and yours. Maybe I should just throw in the towel...
PSSHAW! Your a friggin samurai with christian beliefs right?! Exposure SHOULD BE DONE BY YOU! This shows your WW you care about her and want the truth out. The fake facebook thing isn't a samurai tactic. It's a weasel way out for a check in the box! Stop deluding yourself about NC by her "words". CS, guess what I am a millionaire that saved a bus load of orphans from the Red Skull! See my point words are pointless.
She is cake eating at your expense and you are enabling it. Going to other sites are a waste of our time and more importantly yours. You get up every morning at the crack of dawn to go to work but you can't face the POSOM that is banging your wife? What does this say to your WW? It says my job is more important than my family and marriage so do what you want cause I am too busy to meet your needs.
You need to confront that POSOM using the tools we suggested to you, you need to expose fully and let everyone know it is you that is exposing and that is the reason your and your wife are separated. You have a daughter do you kno the rate of molestation doubles when single moms meet men in relationships?
Stop the excuses and pity parties, you can do this. Follow the advice given to you here to the letter and have a plan. Because right now your not following a plan your just being reactive instead of being proactive.
JEDI... I AM GOING TO PROVE YOU WRONG. I CONFRONTING TODAY!
I am a great samurai. I can stand up for my marriage. I no longer will just sit here. I am going to go to his house and to his mom.
I am going to say "For a couple of months, your son and my wife had an affair. I want your son to stop talking to my wife in any shape, form or fashion because it is tearing my family apart."
JEDI... I AM GOING TO PROVE YOU WRONG. I CONFRONTING TODAY!
I am a great samurai. I can stand up for my marriage. I no longer will just sit here. I am going to go to his house and to his mom.
I am going to say "For a couple of months, your son and my wife had an affair. I want your son to stop talking to my wife in any shape, form or fashion because it is tearing my family apart."
Is that okay to say?
Time to man up.
Do you have proof of the affair make sure you bring it. List it here first please, as you don't want to give away your snooping tactics.
I agree just keep your cool. Don't tell her that you talked to POSOM mother unless she asks. If she finds out then without your confirmation then you know there's still contact.
It be interesting if he does contact her, because I blocked his number from calling or texting my wife and the ability to call or text his number.
Yea, I blocked my wife from calling Om too...she went and bought a very cheap affair phone from Walmart. She also used a pay phone and calling card. Since you live separated, you have no way of knowing if she is in contact with him.
I am really starting to think this is not paying off. This is starting to feel like a dumb thing. She is more than upset and says I haven't changed. I am standing up for my marriage I told her. She said that is not the way you do it.
If it were me my next course of action is to find that specific phone number in the billing statements and show your father in law she is carrying on an affair under his roof. If you have access to block POSOM number from calling your WW then you must be paying the phone bill. Turn off that phone let her pay for her own luxury. I would also look into getting custody of your DD. She shouldn't be under your WW care while she is engaged in an affair. Waywards make horrible parents and your DD doesn't deserve that at all.
Did you speak with his mother? So much for the evil co-workers setting them up. Prepare for many lies, excuses and anger from your WW. Remember, when she is spitting fire just say. "I am willing to work with you to create a marriage where both our needs are met, only if you end your affair." I know you're in serious pain right now but at least you know now opposed to later. Now is a crucial time to ask your self if you are willing to save your marriage or get a divorce and walk away. No one can decide that for you. Oh, no angry outbursts or love busters. You can only control yourself.
I am really starting to think this is not paying off. This is starting to feel like a dumb thing. She is more than upset and says I haven't changed. I am standing up for my marriage I told her. She said that is not the way you do it.
Don't worry about what she says, she is a drug addict and OM is her drug. She will say and do anything to keep the status quo. Your WW is a liar and a cheat, her words hold no weight and shouldn't sway your decision making process. This is war and your WW and the affair are you enemies.
Well, I did and no lie. 8:01 my wife called me because he texted her. He must have a different number. And now she is more than upset.
You went to OM's house?
What happened there?
He is still contacting her? The affair is still on. She hasn't changed her contact information?
Yea I went to his house. Then I knocked on the door 3 times. His mother answered and I told her. Your son had an affair with my wife, and I have the texts and phone bills to prove it. I would appreciate if you would tell your son to stop talking to my wife."
At 8:01 my wife calls and said he texted her. She said that was the first time he has contacted her in a while and I can check the phone records. She did not contact him back.
I honestly think that she has gone NC like she said.
Anyway, I did it. Now I feel like crap because of her response but I also feel heroic because r I was standing up for my marriage, my child and my God.
If there wasn't contact then why would he text her. Did you see this text?! She is a liar why does it matter what she says. Did you see my advice? I'm sorry, if it were me I would tell my wife the statement and cut that phone off. Let her pay for her own intimate talks with POSOM.
Keep believing your WW. Women don't leave men unless someone they think is better comes along. There might be an affair phone, think about it. She lives with her parents who probably baby-sit while she goes to "work". She could be secretly meeting POSOM, her parents alleviate the responsibility of being a parent so she can act like a loose teenager and your paying money for her to do it. We here on the forum call that "enabling".
From the phone records I can see they haven't talked until December 3rd, but the thing of it is, I found two numbers that were his and I blocked them both. How did he get through to her.
He must have a different number. My wife said I could of just asked if he was talking to me.
From the phone records I can see they haven't talked until December 3rd, but the thing of it is, I found two numbers that were his and I blocked them both. How did he get through to her.
He must have a different number. My wife said I could of just asked if he was talking to me.
First, you cant control her phone. Most people end up getting affair phones. That's like trying to control a drug addict from getting drugs by taking away the pager. They will get the drug.
Second, your wife wants you to ASK HER if she is still having an affair! Did you laugh when she told you that?
Her actions do not surprise me at all; the reason why is because based on the information you post, she sounds like she is deep in the fog and fog= affair.
I will do that. If there is anything else I need to be doing now you would recommend. This Samurai took his sword out and slew the beast but now I must make a plan on what to do next.
If your wife is upset, she's still loyal to the POSOM. That's the only reason she is angry. But I think she's also probably glad you fought for her deep down. Problem is, she's a renter, not a buyer.
I would write consider writing her a Plan B letter telling her how much you love her but will not be bounced around like a ping pong ball while she vacillates. Let her know that the two of you can have a great love life, that you have grown up, and you are ready to do the things that will nourish your marriage. Also set conditions that she must meet to come back such as no opposite sex friendships, complete transparency and radical honesty, and finding a new job.
I know it's been 6 months since the LTA ended. To me, this last one ended December 3rd. You think I should go to plan B now or should I stick with Plan A, as far as snooping and meeting her most valuable needs?
I know it's been 6 months since the LTA ended. To me, this last one ended December 3rd. You think I should go to plan B now or should I stick with Plan A, as far as snooping and meeting her most valuable needs?
I would continue Plan A since you really just now fully exposed the affair; Are you able to continue Plan A and not follow other programs?
If so, Plan A for a few months.
We can help you but you need to commit to posting daily for Plan A guidance.
I won't follow any other program or anyone's else advice, because after I thought about it, I thought to myself, that is not biblical. Exposure is and so is bringing the truth to the forefront.
A famous creature from a very popular movie series has said: "There is no try, only do." So can you commit to a Plan A for a few months? If not go to Plan B, also what's your plan with getting custody? Too much attention on WW not enough on your offspring. WW like to invite POSOMs around their children because they feel for whatever reason they dream up, that POSOM are excellent fathers. I would hate to see that happnen to you.
I won't follow any other program or anyone's else advice, because after I thought about it, I thought to myself, that is not biblical. Exposure is and so is bringing the truth to the forefront.
When I go to see my DD, she is my main focus and I play with her and talk with her. Since she lives with her parents, she has to use their vehicle and normally they go out together.
I can commit to Plan A. I just have to have a real good one. I am taking both of them to the Please Touch Museum tomorrow in Philly.
I won't follow any other program or anyone's else advice, because after I thought about it, I thought to myself, that is not biblical. Exposure is and so is bringing the truth to the forefront.
Did you write Dr. Harley?
I am going to write Dr. Harley today, and give a follow up. And see what he says.
I won't follow any other program or anyone's else advice, because after I thought about it, I thought to myself, that is not biblical. Exposure is and so is bringing the truth to the forefront.
Did you write Dr. Harley?
I am going to write Dr. Harley today, and give a follow up. And see what he says.
Today so far she texts me and says she is frustrated with me.
Don't respond to that text. If you keeps texting this throughout the day, just respond by saying "OM is a danger to families and marriages and his mother has a right to know."
They call them 2x4s here. Download the app on your phone and listen during your commute. Keeps your on the right path, my WW is still in affairland and if she ever comes out I plan on listening to it together. Very good radio program and awesome advice is given everyday.
As do I, also don't expect your WW to be cooperative in listening to the app. Matter of fact, I wouldn't try to have her listen. She is foggy and will make up anything not to do it. Some of those will be lovebusters to you. Do you pay for her phone? Are you paying for anything for her?
I pay for everything right now. I pay for the phone, her parents house technically cause the loan is in my name, the vehicles, the insurance. When she decides to do the right thing then I will have her listen to it. I wouldn't do it now.
I don't think stop paying for those would be good, because that would be a love buster...
I pay for everything right now. I pay for the phone, her parents house technically cause the loan is in my name, the vehicles, the insurance. When she decides to do the right thing then I will have her listen to it. I wouldn't do it now.
I don't think stop paying for those would be good, because that would be a love buster...
It is not a LB to stop enabling the affair. You are basically paying for her to continue her A!
I pay for everything right now. I pay for the phone, her parents house technically cause the loan is in my name, the vehicles, the insurance. When she decides to do the right thing then I will have her listen to it. I wouldn't do it now.
I don't think stop paying for those would be good, because that would be a love buster...
Its not a lovebuster, she can live in the marital house it was her choice to leave and pursue an affair. Why are you paying for her parents house? Did you put this information in your email to Dr. Harley?
I did not know that you pay for the parents house. Why did you get a loan for them? It is only in your name?
Do they pay the mortgage and all insurance? How much support are you giving them?
They were living with us and their credit was bad and my wife and I wanted them out so we could do are own thing. It is in I believe just my name. They pay me back for the loan. If I don't pay the Loan they could lose their house.
One more thing I forgot to mention. I recorded my conversation with the mother and myself for safety precautions.
This new information changes my view on this matter. I now understand why your father in law, a minister, would tolerate his daughters infidelity...
Because she is doing what she was raised to do. The in laws have a personal philosophy that man is his brothers keeper. This is the root of socialism. So when they personally ruin their credit, they turn to their son in law and show that they NEED a place to live, they NEED a home. Since you and others are their keeper, then you are obligated to sacrifice.
When their daughter NEEDS sex from other men, she has a right to get it because her needs trump all morality.
Friend, I had my MIL live with us for a third of our marriage...because she NEEDED a place to live.
Your FIL wont stand up to his daughter because he is worse than an infidel.
I haven't wrote Dr. Harley yet, planning on working that email tonight into tomorrow after I leave my Men's Addiction Group.
Update over the weekend. (Saturday) We had a nice time at the Please Touch Museum in Philly. I would say 95% of the conversation was peaceful. After the long day together I took them back to her parents house. She asked me was I upset because she didn't give me a kiss. I said no. She was like you sure. She said you seemed upset. I said no, I was in a great mood. She proceeded to say I been acting funny. I said how, she said by my action on Thursday. I said"He poses a threat to the marriage and family." She said, you should of talked to me first. I said, would you try to talk me out of it. End of that conversation. ***I asked for a Kiss and she said "Don't Press your Luck"***
I carried on a good attitude through all of this. I didn't yell or make any suggestive body language to show I was displease with anything.
(Sunday) After church, we went out to eat with the church. She rode with her father, and I drove my daughter. We were a large group and I sat far away from her and she sat near the kids at the end of the table, and everything seemed fine. Then she came with me and my daughter and she wanted to go to Target and look around. Went to target and looked at Easter stuff. Then she went to the Starbucks inside and got a drink and then i took them back to her grandparents. After she put our daughter to bed we sat on the couch and just watch TV. I said are you going to sit next to me, she said don't press your luck. She is reacting to what I did on Thursday. My friend asked me to be part of his wedding and wants to know should he invite her. I asked her if she wanted to go, but I already told her I was going to take her. She said that is up to you. I was displeased with that statement. I said our friend wants to know for the dinner rehearsal. She said I told you before I would go. Well, later I said I am going through some pictures on my computer and going to delete them. She said you should put them on a disc. I said no, their tainted, and have fake memories because she is wearing the OM's necklace in it.
WW is trying to start a fight to justify her actions. Good on you to avoid them. The bit about deleting pictures you should of kept to yourself. Also, it seems like your pressuring her to go to the wedding. Ask her "How would you feel like going/doing (whatever your idea is)". That statement takes her feelings into account.
When she starts blameshifting, for example saying you should of talked to her before you went to OMs house. Just say "I am sorry you feel that way." And change the subject to something neutral. How are you doing this fine Monday morning?
She responded to my text from last night about the pictures: She said, weren't I wearing clothes I was acting out in porn. (AGAIN this comes up)
She said, when I look at those pictures should I focus on the affair in them.
I said if I had an affair and was wearing a necklace that OW gave me and we took pictures I would understand that the pictures need to be erased and I would want to build new memories."
She responded to my text from last night about the pictures: She said, weren't I wearing clothes I was acting out in porn. (AGAIN this comes up)
She said, when I look at those pictures should I focus on the affair in them.
I said if I had an affair and was wearing a necklace that OW gave me and we took pictures I would understand that the pictures need to be erased and I would want to build new memories."
Non-issue. Do not bring up the affair with her at all. Stop discussing sensitive topics with her. See is seeking justification because you found out the affair is still going on. Keep in mind she will lovebust you but don't do that to her. Be pleasant but at the same time if the affair is brought up by her just change the subject.
And if she brings up YOUR transgressions AGAIN, use it as an opportunity to demonstrate what owning your side of the street looks like and what true repentance looks like.
You may need to do some soul searching yourself here. Sure she's throwing darts at you to take the focus off of her behavior but that doesn't mean you can just ignore her (like she's ignoring you when you point fingers at her).
I had to do some real soul searching here and realize that a my wife and I both had a lifetime of sin behind us that far preceded 2005. Sure she made the ultimate decision to cheat which was incredible hurtful and destructive but we both contributed greatly to the condition of our marriage that made cheating possible and as a man, I feel more responsible and accept more blame for that mistake than I put on my wife.
You can either lead recovery...or spend the rest of your marriage making passive aggressive jabs at one another in the never ending battle to get the other one to take the blame or her trying to manipulate you into keeping quiet (and not making her uncomfortable by mentioning anything)
And if she brings up YOUR transgressions AGAIN, use it as an opportunity to demonstrate what owning your side of the street looks like and what true repentance looks like.
You may need to do some soul searching yourself here. Sure she's throwing darts at you to take the focus off of her behavior but that doesn't mean you can just ignore her (like she's ignoring you when you point fingers at her).
I had to do some real soul searching here and realize that a my wife and I both had a lifetime of sin behind us that far preceded 2005. Sure she made the ultimate decision to cheat which was incredible hurtful and destructive but we both contributed greatly to the condition of our marriage that made cheating possible and as a man, I feel more responsible and accept more blame for that mistake than I put on my wife.
You can either lead recovery...or spend the rest of your marriage making passive aggressive jabs at one another in the never ending battle to get the other one to take the blame.
MR.W you are absolutely right. I have made changes and apologized profusely but apparently I have not dealt with this the right way. I am not sure what I can do to own up to this. I have admitted to how it probably made her feel and how I am making changes to turn it around, but I also been free for almost 4 years from this sin.
I don't care if she wants to talk about this until she is blue in the face.
Should I go ahead and address my porn/lust and do this over and over?
"It's been 4 years and you've apologized profusely." However, is that "repentance"? Is saying you are sorry enough? That is a personal determination. Repentance is a gift. Maybe you are/were maybe you weren't. That being said, at some point the repentant sinner has to be able to say "I've repented for my sins and changed my ways, it's been 4 years. My sins are as far as the east from the west. So it's completely unfair for you to bring them up as a defense to your sins which you clearly are not truly sorry (repentant) of".
Maybe an email out of the blue and off the cuff isn't the right way to go about this. Perhaps reading up on repentance (which is what you want from her and what you want to make sure you've done) is a good way to start...FIRST. Then you can have a good honest calm discussion with your wife about it as you learn the process of repentance TOGETHER.
This may be what you are getting to:
"Honey, I want to satisfy and put away any lingering resentments you have over my porn use years ago and any other hurtful behavior I've had towards you. At the same time, I want to release my own resentments over your behavior and, in particular, your affair. Perhaps we can learn together how to feel and express our remorse such that we can move past this destructive phase in our marriage where we just passive aggressively attack one another, trying to outshame the other one and on to a more open honest intimate proper marital relationship which we both can be proud of modeling in front of our impressionable daughter."
I appreciate this. Doing my research and working on how to convey the message to her so it is genuine and empathetic. I really want to show her I care about what my addiction has done to her.
I appreciate this. Doing my research and working on how to convey the message to her so it is genuine and empathetic. I really want to show her I care about what my addiction has done to her.
The trick also becomes doing it without demanding or expecting her to do the same.
Former wayward wives don't often feel true remorse for what they've done UNTIL they fall in love with their husband's again and become empathetic to your journey dealing with them. She has to love you AND get out of herself to do this. Focus first on getting her to love you and the rest will (God willing) follow.
Had a thought about the email you proposed earlier. Probably a bad idea because she will read anything you say/write as manipulative (trying to get her to respond in kind) versus sincere. In the sea of passive aggression it's really difficult to determine what's sincere and what's not.
I'm not recalling your story so I'm sorry if I'm missing substantive facts in your story as they relate to this.
I appreciate this. Doing my research and working on how to convey the message to her so it is genuine and empathetic. I really want to show her I care about what my addiction has done to her.
The trick also becomes doing it without demanding or expecting her to do the same.
Former wayward wives don't often feel true remorse for what they've done UNTIL they fall in love with their husband's again and become empathetic to your journey dealing with them. She has to love you AND get out of herself to do this. Focus first on getting her to love you and the rest will (God willing) follow.
Had a thought about the email you proposed earlier. Probably a bad idea because she will read anything you say/write as manipulative (trying to get her to respond in kind) versus sincere. In the sea of passive aggression it's really difficult to determine what's sincere and what's not.
I'm not recalling your story so I'm sorry if I'm missing substantive facts in your story as they relate to this.
I don't think your missing any facts but I will point out, I was a porn addict... where I fell of the bandwagon quite a few times. Not until May 19, 2010 was I able to really start putting things in place to protect myself and stay away from the line that I would of crossed over and over.
I always told her about me acting out, and when the last time i acted out.
This new information changes my view on this matter. I now understand why your father in law, a minister, would tolerate his daughters infidelity...
Because she is doing what she was raised to do. The in laws have a personal philosophy that man is his brothers keeper. This is the root of socialism. So when they personally ruin their credit, they turn to their son in law and show that they NEED a place to live, they NEED a home. Since you and others are their keeper, then you are obligated to sacrifice.
When their daughter NEEDS sex from other men, she has a right to get it because her needs trump all morality.
Friend, I had my MIL live with us for a third of our marriage...because she NEEDED a place to live.
Your FIL wont stand up to his daughter because he is worse than an infidel.
Went back and read the last couple pages. Your parents are harboring your wife and you are paying their mortgage. Seems you could have a conversation with your FIL about the fact that when he, of sound mind and free will, GAVE his daughter to you that he should honor that gift and not interfere with your marriage by harboring your unrepentant wife. The fact you pay for the safe house just adds insult to injury.
That being said, I read you also had some anger issues at some point in time so if this is a safety issue while you get control of your emotions than maybe it's for the best TEMPORARILY.
I don't know the whole history between y'all but do you think he'd be receptive to the notion???
Seems he has some skin in this game. He stands to lose his biggest benefactor should the two of you divorce. How about you put the house you currently live in up for sale and tell FIL that you are moving in with him.
Being separated from your children isn't the way to go about this. She doesn't get to cheat AND make you a part time dad at the same time. Custody should be 50-50.
I don't know the whole history between y'all but do you think he'd be receptive to the notion???
Seems he has some skin in this game. He stands to lose his biggest benefactor should the two of you divorce. How about you put the house you currently live in up for sale and tell FIL that you are moving in with him.
Being separated from your children isn't the way to go about this. She doesn't get to cheat AND make you a part time dad at the same time. Custody should be 50-50.
I haven't thought about that. Where we live, I be surprised if I can get anything for our house.
Also, can I send a letter to the place Om's work and exploit them in some action. Like my relative didn't have his own car and most likely used company vehicle.
Also, can I send a letter to the place Om's work and exploit them in some action. Like my relative didn't have his own car and most likely used company vehicle.
I don't know what this means.
As far as the house, putting it up for sale and actually selling it are two different things. You could maybe even get your wife involved in helping you prepare the place for sale. Give you projects to do together to fix it up and organize it. Maybe after it's fixed up you decide to stay. Guys got a right to change his mind. Maybe you follow through and sell such that you two can leave the bad memories behind and start anew in a new home.
In order to show the place...you want to get it staged and then move to in laws so you don't mess it up. How can they refuse when YOU pay the mortgage???? If a great offer comes in...maybe you take it. List the price high and shoot for the stars. Maybe you'll find a desperate buyer that wants your property. In the meantime, you'll have a place to go back to if living together doesn't work out and you do decide to go to Plan B.
Well, later I said I am going through some pictures on my computer and going to delete them. She said you should put them on a disc. I said no, their tainted, and have fake memories because she is wearing the OM's necklace in it.
Send the 2x4's!
Delete the pictures. You need to get that crap out of your life.
Dr. Harley recommends to NOT discuss the affair; HOWEVER she has never agreed to Extraordinary Precautions or writing a no contact letter(s) so just tread along in Plan A.
Sure she made the ultimate decision to cheat which was incredible hurtful and destructive but we both contributed greatly to the condition of our marriage that made cheating possible and as a man, I feel more responsible and accept more blame for that mistake than I put on my wife.
Biblically, the Husband should be the spiritual leader of the home and when sin enters in its usually because the husband is not on the right path with God.
So Samurai keep your mind clean and your feet on the right path
Also, can I send a letter to the place Om's work and exploit them in some action. Like my relative didn't have his own car and most likely used company vehicle.
Yes, you can expose that he used company resources while carrying on an affair with your wife. Have you posted him on www.cheaterville.com? You can list the company he works for there.
Really, the exposure should have been done 6 months ago.
Also, can I send a letter to the place Om's work and exploit them in some action. Like my relative didn't have his own car and most likely used company vehicle.
I don't know what this means.
As far as the house, putting it up for sale and actually selling it are two different things. You could maybe even get your wife involved in helping you prepare the place for sale. Give you projects to do together to fix it up and organize it. Maybe after it's fixed up you decide to stay. Guys got a right to change his mind. Maybe you follow through and sell such that you two can leave the bad memories behind and start anew in a new home.
In order to show the place...you want to get it staged and then move to in laws so you don't mess it up. How can they refuse when YOU pay the mortgage???? If a great offer comes in...maybe you take it. List the price high and shoot for the stars. Maybe you'll find a desperate buyer that wants your property. In the meantime, you'll have a place to go back to if living together doesn't work out and you do decide to go to Plan B.
Mr. W
This is a great idea, Samurai. This would get you back under the same roof with your wife.
That is your decision, however your Plan B needs to be planned. I have repeatedly asked you about getting custody of your daughter. In Plan B your DS should be with you as waywards are horrible parents. Keep those text messages and I would print them out and show them to your in laws. I would also see about getting your name off that house as well. That is ridiculous of you to take care of her parents in that matter. That last sentence is a personal opinion.
Are the text messages from the same OM? Or are there are more? If there are the same OM I would personally hand deliver the messages to OM's mom. Have you done a background check on this guy? If not I suggest you do, I suspect your daughter has or will be in the future around this POSOM and you have the right to know based on that alone. Also, may help you secure custody. POSOM that have affairs with married women usually are the bottom of the barrel type of people. Drug dealers, criminals, etc.
While you prepare for Plan B you should be in Plan A. I would also visit a lawyer about the custody issue and the fact that her affair den is her parents house and legally its your property. Have you gotten a response from Dr. Harley yet? I would email him this new information as well as it may change your course of action.
Lastly, I am sorry that you are going through this but now you know her "civil" actions where a front for a continuing affair. All is not lost though, waywards are "cake eaters". They enjoy the attention from their spouse as well as their affair partner. That being said you are meeting her needs and POSOM is meeting some as well. Keep in mind that you are meeting the majority. Improve yourself for the sake of your daughter.
added: Keep in mind that most of the time Dr. Harley's advice to men is to Plan A until divorce and then Plan B. Thats because men can handle the emotional rollercoaster long than women, typically. By handle I mean without adverse effects to their health. If you feel that you can handle it, Plan A. No one will think your less of a man if you can't. I have heard an affair for a BS is like losing a child.
Thanks TD. I am going to continue plan A. I have to do a few things. Now I got some pics, I have to put OM on cheaterville and write the harley's and do some more snooping around the house or somewhere to find the phone, if there is one.
Also, what would getting custody of my daughter do if I can't watch her right now? I am not sure they would grant me custody because I work 76+ miles away. Maryland is very finicky about those things.
There are afterschool programs and day care. You won't be the first person to have their child in daycare. I would look for daycare in the area where you work not where you live. Also, does WW have access to your bank accounts, financial accounts, etc? This affair phone a smartphone? Were the text messages from the phone you know about?
Thanks TD. I am going to continue plan A. I have to do a few things. Now I got some pics, I have to put OM on cheaterville and write the harley's and do some more snooping around the house or somewhere to find the phone, if there is one.
Make sure you post the pictures on cheaterville, too. (If it will not expose your snooping methods)
Also, what would getting custody of my daughter do if I can't watch her right now? I am not sure they would grant me custody because I work 76+ miles away. Maryland is very finicky about those things.
These are questions to ask an attorney. But why don't you consider Mr. Wonderings suggestions and place your house for sale and move in with your wife?
Yes, Mr. W advice is spot on for Plan A but just I case you can't handle it Plan B is what's next. My point is prepare for Plan B so when its time you can go dark as they say. Does she have access to your earnings? Does your WW work at all?
Yes, Mr. W advice is spot on for Plan A but just I case you can't handle it Plan B is what's next. My point is prepare for Plan B so when its time you can go dark as they say. Does she have access to your earnings? Does your WW work at all?
She has access to my money, but I am thinking of going to the bank and opening a new account and transferring money from there to there. She has her bank account now.
I honestly can't put my house up for sale, I mean I could but I don't think it would pan out around here. I will schedule an appointment and go talk to a lawyer.
...you know what... I think I am just going to file for divorce. I just don't see me being able to do what you guys insist, not because I don't want to but because I feel like this has already been setup to fail.
Were separated. She took my daughter. Well if I am going to divorce I mind as well get my daughter back.
and do some more snooping around the house or somewhere to find the phone, if there is one.
How do you know or why do you suspect there is another phone?
She lives with her parents so why would it be in your home?
Most commonly...her affair phone is stuck to her person like glue. Check her bra or tucked in the back of her pants. Her purse and then, lastly her car.
If you discover the affair phone number...maybe text bomb her while in her presence to see what buzzes, chirps or beeps. Added bonus of seeing the look on her face.
Be careful of legal liabilities...hacking is illegal so what you share and with whom you share it could get risky. There's a big difference between SAYING "wow, someone mailed me this printouts containing these text messages between my wife and OM that said x,y and z" without even handing anyone a copy that they could use to file a police report versus emailing someone in writing and saying "I hacked wife's computer and phone and I've attached PDF's showing the evidence I found".
The house is in both our names... and it more or less a mobile home on a nice peace of land.
Great...then is the plumbing one of those hookup deals???
Just indicate the plumbing is backed up and needs an overhaul and you NEED to move in with inlaws for a week or so while that is being taken care of.
Then...keep saying you talked to plumber and it's worse than you originally thought. They have to do a dig out and the guys backhoe is out of order till he gets a part next wednesday. He could rent one but that would cost you another $100 so you'll just wait. Should be done by mid-april...hopefully, etc., etc., etc.
The house is in both our names... and it more or less a mobile home on a nice peace of land.
Great...then is the plumbing one of those hookup deals???
Just indicate the plumbing is backed up and needs an overhaul and you NEED to move in with inlaws for a week or so while that is being taken care of.
Then...keep saying you talked to plumber and it's worse than you originally thought. They have to do a dig out and the guys backhoe is out of order till he gets a part next wednesday. He could rent one but that would cost you another $100 so you'll just wait. Should be done by mid-april...hopefully, etc., etc., etc.
Mr. W this is awesome advice! What do you think CS?
There is no room at my in laws. 2 bedroom place. I gave it some thought. 1. I am not capable of doing what you say or have said. 2. I am pathetic, it took me forever to get exposure. 3. I am basically arguing with you when I know your advice is to help.
That's why, I decided, I am going to go to court house, get divorce papers, go to bank, setup new account and take money and then, dump her off my phone plan and just go apply for custody of my daughter.
Make of me what you will, coward, deserter, dishonorable. But I think you all can tell by my actions alone that I won't make it...
There is no room at my in laws. 2 bedroom place. I gave it some thought. 1. I am not capable of doing what you say or have said. 2. I am pathetic, it took me forever to get exposure. 3. I am basically arguing with you when I know your advice is to help.
That's why, I decided, I am going to go to court house, get divorce papers, go to bank, setup new account and take money and then, dump her off my phone plan and just go apply for custody of my daughter.
Make of me what you will, coward, deserter, dishonorable. But I think you all can tell by my actions alone that I won't make it...
I'm sorry, I felt like I wasted your time...
The problem is easily solved. You can do both! But it is your decision as for the self mauling of your character, ton't do that as none of it is true. Just because you filed doesn't mean your divorced. You can still Plan A, it is what I am doing now. Filing help secure my finances and the well being of my son. So, I am onboard with that idea. What did Dr. Harley suggest? Do you have the cheaterville set up? You fell for the oldest trick in the book for any man who loves a woman. you fell for her womanly charms and made the choice to drag feet on exposure and MB in general. Now that your reconginze that what will you do to solve it?
Well, I am going to file today, and open my own bank account and so forth. I added him to cheaterville. I am now contacting the Harleys. I posted his picture on there as well. Hopefully they will accept my post.
Just don't make this an emotional decision but a logical one. What I am saying is you knew she was in an affair. So don't be surprised at the content of the text messages you found. You knew she is a liar as well. I understand it hurts like hell but also be cool and collect when your make your decisions.
edit: I am reading this thread that was bumped by indie for a second time. I think you should take a gander at it as well.
There is nothing wrong with filing for divorce. I filed for divorce when I first learned of my wife having sex with OM, literally within 3 days of discovery.
If I marry again, adultery will be immediate divorce.
Life is too short to be miserable;
However, since you have a kid in this it may be worth trying plan A longer during the divorce process.
I was in Plan A during divorce and went to plan B immediately after divorce. But DO NOT allow yourself to deteriorate mentally or physically in Plan A. Dont kill yourself trying to win back a wayward.
She was planning to run away with him, well she was. She addressed him as Husband and her as Wife. That was some hurtful planning and the things she said in those texts, will be haunting, not forever but for a long while.
I looked at the thread and I see my WW in both of those categories.
1. Previous adulteries or cheated on boyfriends. 2.Her adultery choice knaws her conscience and she has difficulty reconciling her behavior with her beliefs. 3.Physically suffers with a guilty conscience. Difficulty sleeping, eating, concentrating. (maybe in the beginning not so much now) 4.Has fallen head-over-heels "in love" with OM, which is often an old flame. 5.Has spiritual/religous beliefs she must ignore in order to "follow her heart". 6.Cries for an audience, especially when caught. 7. I believe she has turned to food or putting all her effort into our daughter. 8.Feels powerful and in control 9.Loves herself. Why not? 10.Can look people straight in the eye and lie her [censored] off. Then go to bed with OM(s), then come home and kiss her BH, her children, and have a good night sleep. No problem.
Maybe I should try Plan A a little longer, but there is only so much a man can take before he realizes, she is too far gone and never coming back...
Just like last night. I let the cat go out for a little bit while working and of course the dumb creature didn't come back. She got upset for letting it out, and begin to berate because she said it can fleas, ticks or rabies. Then she said, if i can not trust you with the little things then how can i trust you with the big things.
She doesn't know. And she never said anything about our daughter in the plan at all. Of course I don't have all the pieces.
I am going to make an appointment today. I didn't get a chance to go to court to pick up papers because Chiropractor took longer. I stopped by to see my daughter and then I went to Counselor.
OM # 1 is the Long Term Affair Partner, my relative. During their affair, they took a break from each other then she slept with OM # 2 and then OM # 1 came back and she was planning to run away with him, but he as far as I could see he was very hesitant in the texts. You can basically see that he wasn't planning on to do it.
You need to show these to the attorney and tell him you want a Court order that your daughter is not to leave the county or state.
How did the appointment go? I watched a movie yesterday that really touched my heart. It was Tyler Perry Temptation, watching it I could see the road an affair takes and how they end. Not a fan of his movies but this one was personal, I guess. You should watch it.
I hope this comes off not being offensive and I am sure some people will already be ready to blast this out of the water but I am going to share it anyway, because I think it just changed the game... Sunday, after church my FIL who is the pastor wanted to talk to me and my wife. My MIL and FIL sat us down in a room in private and revealed the following.
Background: Pentecostal church, believes in speaking in tongues and all the gifts that are in the bible. (Yes I believe in it too...)
My FIL said he received a message from The Lord, that "Perfect Love Cast Out All Fear." With that said he, informed us that the path we are on now we are heading for a very bad place and we are more than free to get a divorce from each other for our sins. My MIL said is concerning that we haven't been to marriage counseling for the past 5 and half months we been separated and if we wanted to save our marriage we would be doing what ever it takes.
I informed them that I have been doing Anger Management, Counseling, which they already know about. I have been trying to talk to my wife and I have been wanting to go to counseling and so forth.
Well they informed us that God said if we get back together and stay as we are we would be headed down a dark path and if we get divorce and act the way we are we would be heading down a dark path. If we do what God want's we will be able to have a better marriage, or we get divorce and do what God wants, we can have an ok relationship basically that would not affect our daughter as greatly as divorce or staying married and being bitter and resentful.
My wife say's she thought she made up her mind to come back but after talking to her parents she decided to that we should go to marriage counseling first for 4 sessions. I agreed. I also said we are going to go to my Counselor, because, 1. he is tough as balls, 2. he is no nonsense type of guy. (He jumped on me in counseling).
Any way, I think this could be a good sign that things are going to go in the right direction
Seeing how I believe she wants to come back, my plan is to sit with her in Counseling and say this is the plan I want to follow for our marriage to make sure we are always in agreement, and meeting each others needs.
Sorry man I hate to be the bad guy here but it seems your WW is only agreeing to this counseling because of one thing. The old I tried to make it work but I don't feel that way about you card. This can be a good thing if you have the right counselor. I suggest you do the phone counseling they have here on Marriage Builders. I am 100% sure your WW won't commit to MB counseling via the phone. Then you will see what here TRUE intentions are.
If she won't agree to the phone counseling via MB then I wouldn't waste your time with marriage counseling. I'm sure the vets will weigh in and agree as well. Is she still in contact with POSOM? Did you ever post the POSOM #2 on cheaterville? Why haven't you been posting daily? Have you filed for divorce? Sounds like the in-laws want you married to save their own hides.
I haven't posted the OM#2. I don't have a picture. I haven't been posting daily because I had some issues come up, with work and so forth. I have an appointment with the lawyer this Thursday. I don't think so, because the way the conversation came off it came off as it better for us to divorce if we don't actually do what s necessary.
I have to agree with Tranquil on this one. I would be very wary, remember the old saying - Don't believe a word of what a wayward says. True actions(not going through the motions) are what will tell you the truth.
I have to agree with Tranquil on this one. I would be very wary, remember the old saying - Don't believe a word of what a wayward says. True actions(not going through the motions) are what will tell you the truth.
You are absolutely right. If I can get the MB program setup and get her to commit to the program I would be more hopeful as well.
Lawyer is this Thursday. My IC thinks MC would be pointless with my WW by the way she is acting. He believes more IC for her. A couple of her responses to everything has been very not taking responsibility.
I would NOT take affair recovery or even marriage advice from a counselor. Are you aware that they dont save marriages? They never have.
You should only insist on MB Surviving an Affair. Your wife doesnt need to see an IC to figure out why she has sex with other men. She just needs to stop having sex with other men!
I would NOT take affair recovery or even marriage advice from a counselor. Are you aware that they dont save marriages? They never have.
You should only insist on MB Surviving an Affair. Your wife doesnt need to see an IC to figure out why she has sex with other men. She just needs to stop having sex with other men!
edit: do not show her the forum.
Well good luck on Thursday. Also the affair is still going on so try to get her into MB coaching.
Good that you are holding your ground. I agree with TD about MB Coaching. If you and your wife desire a full recover, that is the way to go. Let your in-laws know that Dr. Harley is coming from a Christian perspective. Ask for their support. If they meant what they said at the meeting they will support you 100%. YOu might lend them a copy of Surviving an Affair so they can check it out. Until this happens you will continue to flounder.
Follow the steps from SAA that Melody Lane leaves for those who post here.
From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67
The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.
These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.
Checklist for How Affairs Should End
_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.
_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.
_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.
_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:
_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).
_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).
_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).
_____Spend leisure time together.
_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.
_____Avoid overnight separation.
_____Allow technical accountability.
_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.
Once again on the show yesterday, the example of how MC are useless when it comes to saving marriages. Did you hear about the last email question on the show? If not could our resident MB scholar, Brainhurts, post it for CS. Thanks in advance.
Once again on the show yesterday, the example of how MC are useless when it comes to saving marriages. Did you hear about the last email question on the show? If not could our resident MB scholar, Brainhurts, post it for CS. Thanks in advance.
Once again on the show yesterday, the example of how MC are useless when it comes to saving marriages. Did you hear about the last email question on the show? If not could our resident MB scholar, Brainhurts, post it for CS. Thanks in advance.
Just to give an update. It's ending in divorce and there is no chance what so ever for reconciliation. We were having a nice a peaceful divorce at first via mediation and then she accused me of sexual abuse to our daughter. CPS ruled it out and noted as basically being false allegations. I got a great lawyer and I am going for full custody.
Just to give an update. It's ending in divorce and there is no chance what so ever for reconciliation. We were having a nice a peaceful divorce at first via mediation and then she accused me of sexual abuse to our daughter. CPS ruled it out and noted as basically being false allegations. I got a great lawyer and I am going for full custody.
Figure I give you an update.
Sorry to hear that, does your DD know the truth from you now? Have you realized your inlaws aren't allies in your struggle? What are your plans? Are you in contact with your WW? Do you document any contact?
I document everything. DD doesn't know the truth because STBXWW has alienated me from her. In-laws are definitely not allies.
Plan is to get full custody and avoid contact. I agreed to see my daughter Thursdays and Saturday at 3pm as long as certain people are not present.
This is why you should of exposed to her long ago. I will also have your attorney put a clause of no overnight visits from other men when your daughter is with WW. Sex abuse increases in the case of girls who are with single moms.
and now you you're hurt and goodnight to me.