Hi all,
I�m sorry this is long but I just needed to get my story out there and vent a little.
First off, I didn�t find this site until after most of this had happened and I would have handled it much different if I had and would have saved me a bunch of heartache. Anyone questioning if exposure is important, read on, it is.
My husband was hurt at work in June 2010 and he was put on workman�s comp because he has a lot of heavy lifting on his job and they didn�t have any light duty. Anyway looking back, we had started taking each other for granted for about a year before this happened.
On Christmas Day his phone rings and he is sitting right beside me. He is very vague on the phone and just says �you to� and bye. I told him it sounded like a girl�s voice and he denied it.
I didn�t have a chance to get on the computer all that weekend to check phone records so I let it go until I got back to work. I checked his phone and there were thousands (yes thousands) of text messages to this phone number starting from the time I left for work every morning until I was about to get home. Also some after I went to bed because he would say since he was not working he was not tired enough to go to sleep.
I confronted him (D Day#1), of course they were just friends and never met, just talked and texted on the phone because he was lonely while I was at work. I told him I didn�t believe it to let me see the text but they were all deleted. He said that if it made me upset that he would stop and I checked his phone for several days after with no contact. Our marriage was better and we were really working on things but I was still not convinced.
I did more snooping and found an email account that they switched to after he could not use his phone anymore. Then found out he had been meeting her 2 times a week for a month before and they had slept together 2 times from those emails. Confronted again (D Day #2) He said that he told her no more (yes I saw the NC email but didn�t see the email before that warning her it was about to come).
She met him again that Thursday after (normal meeting day) and bought him a pay per use phone that they could use. Found out about that one on D Day #3 and it had all the usually texts on it as to how much she missed him and was he ever going to leave me�.Looking back, I can see the logs and see she was the person doing all the first contacts every day and he would never tell her he was planning on leaving me when she would ask.
Anyway confronted him again on D Day #3 and told him I was leaving. He broke down and cried and told me he didn�t want her he just didn�t know how to break it off and she would not leave him alone. I told him to give me the passwords (when I got the one I found other email address from this one) He had a total of 3 accounts he was talking to multiple girls on so she may have thought he cared but he was lying to her as much as me. I emailed every one of them and told him that he was married and he was lying to them and to leave him alone. Most of them came back and told me they were sorry that they didn�t know (he was responding to online dating sites)
Since that time, he has willingly let me put a gps tracker on his cell phone, I have access to the phone at all times without warning, I can call him at any time and he is to have someone that he is next to take a picture of him and send it from there phone so I can see he is where he said he was and what he is doing at the time. I show up at random times where he is supposed to be. I know there are still holes but I don�t have the money to buy expensive trackers and since he already knows I�m watching his phone he would just get another one.
I have already been through the try to make it better for him stage and now in the �I can�t believe I�m trying� stage. I have good and bad days, on the bad days I just want to cry all day and he understands and apologizes again and holds me until I can stop. On the good days, we don�t talk about it and I don�t have any triggers and it goes great. He is doing everything that he knows how to make it better for me and said he understood that it would take time for me to want to make it work again.
That�s all for now just had to get it out.
One question for the vets,,,,,when do we consider in recovery instead of just surviving?
Hi JL, welcome to Marriage Builders. Good for you for digging out his affairs and putting a stop to them.
Do you have a keylogger on his computer in addition to the GPS? Since he met these women online, I am hoping you have that base covered. If not, get one on there ASAP. A good one is eblaster at spectorsoft.com. It costs about $100 but is very effective and hard to detect.
As far as recovery of your marriage, I would get the book Surviving an Affair along with the Five Steps to Romantic Love and diligently follow the program in SAA.
This program is very different from others in that its goal is to create romantic love in your marriage. If your H is in love with you, he will feel less temptation to cheat. And most marriages do not ever recover from affairs because they don't follow these steps.
The fastest, most effective way to create romantic love in your marriage is to SCHEDULE 20+ hours per week of undivided attention meeting these top 4 emotional needs: sexual fulfillment, affection, conversation, recreational companionship. This will make a huge difference in your marriage that you will see pretty soon.
Melody, I wanted to apologize. I must not have marked this tread as being watched and never saw your post and questions.
I value your imput and hope to one day be able to put "happily recovered " on my post. I know i have a long road ahead but Im sure I will get there.
I will stick to this tread if I have anymore questions or can give updates now that I found it again (I just found the my treads button).
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He does not use the computer only his Droid...that is why I didnt catch him sooner. I do have several programs on the Droid now. Lookout for the GPS and call log. Derex or somethign like that for the texts. I cant afford the expensive ones that log time on the internet but he lets me look at his phone at any time so I can check history. I know it could be deleted but I cant do more than that. As far as GPS, I have called him before when the GPS picked him up somewhere other than work and I told him to have the person he was with snap a picture of him and send it to me from the other persons phone and he did. He was under the guys car trying to get it started for him in the exact location the phone said he was. He realized that he didnt let me know he was going there and now tells me when something like that happens.
He had a "A" pre-paid phone that she bought him after I found contact on his phone so he would just do that again if he wanted to start it up becuase he knows about the programs and encoraged me to put them there and check up on him at any time. We spend VERY little time apart now so I know there has been no contact I just still dont feel "safe" I guess that will come in time and he is very understanding.
I was at a very down point yesterday and everything was a trigger. I feel much better today but we had a talk about him not working on the program(I had bought a program before I found MB but VERY simular aproaches) It may have even been a spin off of this one becuase it is the same thing just uses different words.
I told him I needed him to step up to the plate and do some of the heavy lifting for awhile becuase I was so tired. He said he would make more of an effort and planned out our weekend with me yesterday instead of me comming up with everything. (I had to plan my own birthday stuff this year). That is one place he is lacking, he cant even decide where we are going to eat out. I told him I would like for him to plan out EVERYTHING on our next weekend getaway and suprise me. I know my part in that is to enjoy anything he plans but he knows what I like and I'm sure I will love it.
And no, Giving up is NOT an option. I just needed to vent and didnt want him to hear that I was thinking that way.
We have been together for 13 years and married for 11 of that. We dont have any kids of our own but I have a grown DS and DD and he has a 15 year old that had just moved in with us but he is a great kid.
I hope I answered everying and I just wanted to thank all the vets on here. I dont post much but I get alot from other posts on here and it answers most of my questions before I have to ask them.
Im typing on my phone so I cant copy my answers from my ther tread but I will edit this and put them on this thread when I get home.
Guys, I have one quick question. Since I had not found MB at the time of my D-Days, I only exposed to a few people.
Latley I have been feeling like I need to find the OWH and at least let him know. She told him during one of there last emails I found that she had told him but I dont really believe that as I found where she had reposted her profile on the same dating site that my WH found her on.
The reason I'm worried about doing that is I'm just now starting to belive that she has stopped trying to contact him and dont want to start it back up again. I can switch phones with him but I dont really want to becuase it will just trigger me. I guess I'm being selfish but I dont want to deal with that again.
I value your input so please, let me have it.
PS, we didnt change phone numbers but I do have acess to all records and passwords. I have even changed the password to the email account that she has to one he does not know so he cant delete anything untill I see if first.
JL, you absolutely MUST tell OWH.
You are right, she did not tell her H the truth or else why would she still be on a dating site?
Not only will exposing to OWH actually help protect the A from reigniting but it is the RIGHT thing to do. How would you feel if OWH knew but kept you in the dark?
Now how would the OW be able to get in touch with your H? If he had implemented EPs he would have changed his phone numbers and emails and closed down any social networking profiles to prevent such contact...
PS, we didnt change phone numbers but I do have acess to all records and passwords. I have even changed the password to the email account that she has to one he does not know so he cant delete anything untill I see if first.
I think you added this while I was typing. This is worrisome and I see this coming back to haunt people later. Why not just change the numbers to be safe?
well as you know i am also new here, but i would take the phone for a day as see how you feel, but dont tell him till that AM when he is leaving. the trigger may be that you dont have the phone and you are wondering all day, like the build up them wham, i bet if you had it you would feel you had a litle power. just my thoughts, but i am also a newbie. i took his for a day- funny i checked the gps, and thought he was follow ME! talk about paranoid. duh!i did feel better having it.
Also if she posted again on the dating site i would tell the OWH. thats ridiculous. but i am no where near the expert.
i also have the bad days, major meltdown yesterday, but the ladies pulled me out.
i am going with the look great every day concept.
similar stories.... but they all are i guess.
Latley I have been feeling like I need to find the OWH and at least let him know. She told him during one of there last emails I found that she had told him but I dont really believe that as I found where she had reposted her profile on the same dating site that my WH found her on.
Please let this poor man know what his WW is up to without delay.
J, waywards lie. It's their stock in trade. You can be sure that her H knows nothing. NOTHING. Every day that goes by exposes him to STDs, to say nothing about his false sense of security and reality.
Your benefit is the added insurance of his knowledge. He'll be an extra set of eyes to help you be sure that the affair does not resume.
Thanks guys. This is what I thought also but wanted to make sure since it had been so long since NC.
I told FWH a few minutes ago and he said that he is fine with it. I thought he would had a problem with it but I guess he is more on board than I gave him credit for.
I don't want to change the number for several reasons that affect me BUT I will swap with him for a few days then at random for a few months.
Wow, she is good.
I have spent all day looking up every phone number and user name I can find and I'm not having any luck. So far I have found addresses in several states and all the phone numbers are to locations that the addresses do not match.
She really knows how to cover her tracks. I think I know where she works but she works 3rd and it is 2 1/2 hours away from me so getting there to follow her would be very hard.
Her facebook page does not have anyone local on it and none are listed as family.
I'm still searching but running out of options, already spent 50.00 on paid lookup sites with no help.
If you have access to her facebook a last option is to send a message to as many of the friends listed that she is a serial adulteress who was in an affair with your husband and ask them to contact her husband. It will shake her little world , the better option is to track down her husband but if you draw to many blanks you have a second route.
google the tax assessor records in the town. at least you will have the address.
Problem is, I dont even know which town is really hers. She told my husband such a small town it could be any of the out lying towns also. I've even gotten an address in the oposite direction of what she told him.
I'm also starting to think she is not using her husbands last name becuase I'm not finding anything that way either. She is using a hyphenated last name and I have used both.
Facebook page is all about her and how wonderfull she is so I dont think her friends would care or belive it untill I can find anouther listing or something that I can send the link of. They think her husband is the worst of low lifes because of the stories she spins.
I don't want to change the number for several reasons that affect me BUT I will swap with him for a few days then at random for a few months.
J, I would also suggest you change your calling plan so that his phone has only calling capabilities. Nix the texting and internet.
He did offer that so I will do that, it will be cheeper that way also.
One day (about 2 months ago)when I found a site on his history that I didnt know why he was on it. He explained the site and said "I see this bothers you, why dont I go back to my old phone and take off the internet and text"
He is really doing everything by the book and I kinda felt bad today becuase I had to bring her up to him again to make sure I had my facts right when I could not find her. He said it didnt bother him but I know it brings up bad memories for him when we were are the worst part.
wow she is good. try obits they usually link the town. also huffington post.com this shows any contributions to elected, the are required to post by law. i think you best show is the husband do you know anything about him?
best shot is the husband sorry typo
Just an update, nothing really to tell. I've still not gotten anywhere. Her kids names are very unique and I know what school they go to so I have even tried to google there first names hoping a last name will pop up.
I had to take a break at it since I was getting so really bad triggers going through the emails and text trying to find clues. I was feeling very depressed and drained so I have not looked for about 3 days.
I'm starting to feel better today so I will try more this weekend. I have not given up yet but running out of options.
On the plus side, according to her facebook page, her world is falling apart and everyone is turning on her, even her kids. Maybe they already found out about the guys after hime. I believe in karma.
I wouldnt be able to look at her facebook, unless i was blasting something out. it would just upset me. If you know the school you should have the town name. you have the supposed last name or names you can get an addrees for the tax assessors office at city/town hall.
Or on her FB friends, look at how many have the same last name, for example. if she has 3 smiths there, they are probably related.
i have not found one good paid site, so dont waste your money. some librarys have access to lexis-nexis, usually its for law research but you can find good things on it. I did find OW#1 (or what every number she was) divorce settlement.
If you have her maiden name, you could go to Intelius and sometimes they list family members or persons of same household that you can see without having to pay. They do that so you can be sure you're getting the right person. Then you could get the married last name and do a whitepages search or google to get a phone number and/or address. Try Spokeo too.
spokeo, mylife, linkedin and classmates.com all pretty good all free
do either of the OW/OWH work?
just got an email from mylife the the OW was looking for me. and i am not even signed up on it.
I got one of those also. I think they pull something from where you are looking for her and use it to try to get you to signup. Im trying to balance between researching and triggering. I don't want to go too far into triggered if that makes sense.
To me, telling him is not as important as focusing on our recovery. If I had found this site first, I would have snooped longer in the beginning and found out more about her. I also would not have had 3 d-days. BUT if I could go back in time the affair might not have happened in the first place so no reason to think about that now.
I understand that I should tell him but my husband and my marriage is more important.
If you're triggering hard, it's because your wh needs to FOCUS ON YOUR NEEDS MORE, making sure you feel totally safe and loved in the M.
This onus is on the ws. I am so sorry you're going thru this. In time, just trust me, you'll figure out how he "affaired down" and you'll look upon the posow with pity and loathing. She won't trigger you at all, b/c you are FAR MORE incredible and beautiful inside and out!
Hugs to you.
Also kudos to you for going to help the owh. I bet that poor guy has no clue what is going on.
I wonder if he even saw her fb profile.
You see, it's no surprise around here about ww's and ww's who are ow imho are WORSE.
She on one hand, the ww/ow is spinning tales about her H being so bad, her M being horrid, etc and whining to whoever her latest prey (mm) might be, trying to ignite inside of them that "dumsel in distress" scenario. That's what they do, most of the ow anyhow. In some form or another.
On the other hand, she's probably done this times before and like my xwh's ow, she almost lives a total life in secret because of all the shameful and horrid actions she's done.
But you're doing great. It is good he's being supportive, but is he DOING EVERYTHING IN HIS POWER to make up for, take extraordinary precautions, and give you all the love and support and safety you need? Imho, he may need to give more! More <3 basically!
I swear, if the waywards out there EVEN KNEW of the real pain that they'd incur and the horrible pain YOU, the bs would incur and how their world would turn upside down, they'd never even consider having an a.
Oh, he is doing everything he can to make me feel safe. Im just digging deep to try to find the OWH because I didn't know much about her and she covered her trace well. Im not even sure I have the right last name anymore since I keep coming up empty.
I think I'm about to stop looking for her husband and go forward.
As far a pitty and loathing....I have the loathing but she has enough pitty for herself. I don't have to add anything. Her whole facebook page is poor me this and poor me that. I think it is funny actually.
ok, quick question.
She blocked me from her facebook page this weekend. I've never posted to her facebook page but my husband knew I was looking at it to get clues as to how to find her family.
Is there a way she could have known I was looking or should I be worried they are having contact? I signed up under my fake account and her account is still there but I cant find it under my name.
I still have all the loggers and trackers and activly snooping and we spent the whole weekend together so I know no contact this weekend for sure but I know she blocked me Sunday.
No noticable changes in him and we are still doing the program so I really dont think there has been contact.
PS...How do I change my user name. It is very easy for her to find this post on google if she was looking.
Oh, he is doing everything he can to make me feel safe. Im just digging deep to try to find the OWH because I didn't know much about her and she covered her trace well.
Your WH can't give you this information?
she probably blocked you bc she knows you are going to expose her. shes probably scared that her h will find out all of her lies.
I would keep looking for OWH, have you made any progress?
keep moving forward, you are doing great.
Oh, he is doing everything he can to make me feel safe. Im just digging deep to try to find the OWH because I didn't know much about her and she covered her trace well.
Your WH can't give you this information?
No, untill we started looking for OWH, he didnt realize just how much he didnt know about her. She lied about alot of stuff to him also. He told me he would take me to her house if he knew where it was just so I could expose and get that part over with. He knows it is bothering me that I cant.
Dee,
Still nothing and I've about givin up for now. Maybe she will drop her guard and post another personal that I can find. According to her facebook page she goes walking at the same place we go for a hobby so maybe I will run into her car there and I can trace the tags. I do know what it looks like :-) but the place is 2 hours from the house so I cant go there alot.
She blocked me from her facebook page this weekend. I've never posted to her facebook page but my husband knew I was looking at it to get clues as to how to find her family.
.
One way to do this is to send private messages to several of her family and friends on facebook, telling them about the affair and asking them to contact the OWH and have him contact you. Did you copy and save her fb contacts? We have a sample letter you could use.
No family on facebook and all her friends know she is married and living with her husband but activly looking for "the next man" so that would not help. They would think it was funny. It just tells me what kind of person she is.
One of her posts even brags about her working on her car and her next man will at least be able to hand her the tools.
now your situation is making me nuts! I wish i could find him for you to get this over with!
name change??
Im ok with it if I don't find him. Im not obsessing over it as long as I don't find out my FWH tipped her off. I don't have anything pointing that way.
Changed the name because to easy to find the post on google. Didn't think ahead when I made it. Thinking she may have found this tread is why she blocked me. (If she is.....I have more than one account so have fun finding them and tell your daughter congrats on the fishing trip)
My M is still better than ever so we are still doing something right. I gotta get this moved to I recovery now.
Im ok with it if I don't find him. Im not obsessing over it as long as I don't find out my FWH tipped her off. I don't have anything pointing that way.
Changed the name because to easy to find the post on google. Didn't think ahead when I made it. Thinking she may have found this tread is why she blocked me. (If she is.....I have more than one account so have fun finding them and tell your daughter congrats on the fishing trip)
My M is still better than ever so we are still doing something right. I gotta get this moved to I recovery now.
You should be able to go to account settings and change it there..
CV
i miss you already. i will mark you to buddies, just found that link. 46 posts and you are in recovery, good work!
Thank you Dee,
I think one of the things that helped me is what led up to the affair was him being out of work and bored. He is the type that has to be doing something even when he is sick. He is back to work now and we are together the rest of the time. Now, we will have to do some major talking about a plan if he is ever out again.
The affair started with texting in November (he found her and several others on a dating site) and went PA at the end of November. I caught them a month later (slep together 2 times) so all total it was 2 months of the affair and he was still talking to other girls at the time so he didnt get to far attached to her. His fog didnt last very long so we were able to start working on everything much sooner than some.
I was already half way through what you are going through now when I found this site so that is why not to many posts before I felt safe to move thred over here.
you were very lucky (tee hee)..... you caught it quick, i was lucky i found MB on like day 3 and didnt have to sit alone with info and not know what to do. my h has very strict EP's no going out at this time or ever right now, we have alot of work functions so we will see how our negotiating skills get. but he definately has seen the light on how his behaviors, even with friends much change. like an addict he got high on it, but it wrecked him emotionally. we will see... it very hard to know all that i know, it was alot. so day by day.
I just wanted to take a minute to let you guys know that I'm so proud and happy I'm am to be with my FWH.
My son is now going throug this with his WW and my husband stepped up to the plate last night and even though it hurt him alot he opened up and told my son exaclty what he did and how he was feeling at the time to give my son a feeling of why he cant trust his WW right now and make him realize the lies they will goto to cover up the affair.
He told my son what to watch for and how my son needed to respond in a helpful way.
I'm so happy we stuck it out and made it work. I would have lost an amazing man if not.
I just wanted to take a minute to let you guys know that I'm so proud and happy I'm am to be with my FWH.
My son is now going throug this with his WW and my husband stepped up to the plate last night and even though it hurt him alot he opened up and told my son exaclty what he did and how he was feeling at the time to give my son a feeling of why he cant trust his WW right now and make him realize the lies they will goto to cover up the affair.
He told my son what to watch for and how my son needed to respond in a helpful way.
I'm so happy we stuck it out and made it work. I would have lost an amazing man if not.
Can you send your son to this site, LD?
Yep he is on luvstiff I think is the name
Yep he is on luvstiff I think is the name
Oh, excellent! I've read his thread.
Just a quick update. Recovery is slowing down so I ordered 5 steps last week waiting on it to come in. I just can't seem to get him motivated. There are so many things in his life that get put in front of UA time and im getting frustrated. I want him to be as excited about having a great marriage as I am.
Guess its a low day for me. I have very few triggers now and he is almost to transparent.....im waiting on him to tell me whenhe goes to the bathroom at work...lol. thats not the problem as much as im missing the UA time and hoping the workbook will help.
ok- try this- go get your nails done, buy something risky, and tell him to come home early from work its important. be there waiting.... that may jump start the UA time.
just a thought.
We bought several sexy outfits for our "weekend away" that I have not worn since. We had a blast going to the shops to pick them out. I will dig them out and try that but he does not like makeup or hairspray so I will skip that and the nails.
That is one thing that was kinda weird about the A is she wears tons of makeup, had red fingernails, and about a can of hairspray each time he saw her. He said looking back he has no idea what he was thinking that he would not have even said hi to her on the street normally.
We have just had a very hard time working everything in and I'm ok with putting everything else to the side but he is not. He is on manditory overtime so he works from 7:30 to 5:30 M-F and his son has football practice that I take him to after my work and he gets out at 7:30 so he picks him up.
I'm going to find something we can do between the time he gets off and his son gets out of practice so we can do that while waiting on him. That will be 1.5 hour 3 times a week. Then we still have date night for at least 3 hours 1 time a week.
Just need to find the other 12.50 hours :-( We have weekends off but have not done much the past 2. I think that is what I'm hurting for is the weekend time.
Wow, I have been planning to quite my job in the next few months and start my own rescue kennel. (something I have always wanted to do but the chance just opened up)
Anyway, My husband and I were talking about it last night planning where the building needs to be put on the property and how big it needs to be and he was talking about if we made it bigger to hold more animals he could quit his job and work with me on it.
I've always talked about us working together because we get along so well on projects so I'm excited now.
Our jobs cause alot of stress on both of us as we are both working at places we HATE so this would be a big leap of faith that we can make enough money but we would be doing it together.
Ok recovery took a few steps backward yesterday. I listed a few things I wanted to do on date night and he picked a movie....it was a movie we bot wanted to see so that is not the problem.
I realized about 15 imutes nto the movie that it was a MAJOR TRIGGER. Not tue movie but going to the movies.
I spend more time with tears rolling down my face and him asking if I was sure I was ok than watching the movie. After the movie I was brutaly honest with him that im not seeing any effort on his part to make love deposits or even learning about them. He always has excuses like he does not like to read or does not like forums but he is always on his hobby foumn posting about his toys so it just leaves me feeling like it is not as important to him as the hobby.
In our case, we read all the books aloud together, a chapter plus the questions each night, over the course of a few weeks. You might try that with your H.
What about being at the movie was the trigger? You said it wasn't the movie itself. Is it because your H seems to be putting lots of energy into his hobbies and not much into the MB learning materials?
We had gone out to a movie between d days and we felt so far apart even sitting beside each other.
When the marriage counselor told us to go out on dates, that was an example I could give him that didn't work.
It just brougt back everything at once on how bad his checking out hurt me. That is what be does. He finds excuses at the drop of a hat.
Instead of talking to me about our marriage before the affair he made excuses on how hard it was to work on it then.
Last nigh it was because he could not print out the worksheet for something that I had sent him the link to. So he had not worked on it for weeks. All he had to do was ask me to print it instead of making me feel like he just didn't want to do it.
His actions are screaming "YOU ARE NOT THAT IMPORTANT TO ME" and it is killing me a brop fo blood at a time.
I told him last night the quality of our marriage is not good enough in the long run to overcome the hurt. I have givien myself 2 years before I decide the final outcome.
I just feel like I'm beating the dead horse again.
I think you identified your problem yourself - not enough UA time. Dr. Harley recommends sitting down with a calendar Sunday afternoon at 3 PM and schedule out UA time for the week. UA time should be a priority - before children's activities, hobbies, certainly television, etc - and should consist of meeting the four intimate emotional needs - conversation, affection, SF and recreational companionship.
My H and I have charted our UA time for 68 straight weeks. And whenever we have not met the UA time for the week (a handful of times), we both invariably feel badly. UA time is very important and the rest of the MB program does not work without it.
AM
I agree but we are now waiting on the books so I can show him since he will not just go on here and read. Anything I want him to see I have to send him the link. He never clicks out of the link. It's like he is reading it and that should be it, he should not have to try to go above and beyond that.
I've told him about this program and linked the main website several times but he has never even looked around on it. I dont care if he reads anything in this fourm about surviving an affair, but just basic concepts he has not read.
You could print out whatever you want to share with him and read it together while you wait for your materials to arrive. My H never comes on this forum either and probably would never read anything that way. But when I print it out myself and we read it together, he is willing.
Purchase a little binder to put everything into and you will have it all together for easy access.
I know it's frustrating for you to wait for him, but making it easier for him to read the materials could help get you two working on the concepts more quickly. My H does not really like reading off the computer, because it's hard on his eyes.
I thougt about that but I was afraid I would be alittle one sided. I want him and I to get the whole picture....not just what I think is important for him to see.
We got the books this weekend and started reading them yesterday. I'm reading them out loud.
hope you have a good day today! happy anniversary.......
Lol im actually still sick and in bed but he did kiss me good morning and wish me happy anniversary so he did at least remember the date ( we both always forgot because we celebrated the other day). I knew I would not feel good today so I bought his card and stuff on the way home last night so I could give it to him right after work.
We are still reading the books and he even asked if we were going to read in bed before sleep last night but I could not concentrate to read because I felt so bad.
Im getting more hope because hewas the one that brought up reading last night so he is trying again.
hope you have a good day today! happy anniversary.......
ok so the kiss was all I got. No card or anything
What's the point again? What am I fighting for?
I just found while checking the old email accounts that google tracks your web pages while you are logged on.
I found where he was looking at houses for rent on d-day #1 after we had went to MC for the first time.
I had spoken to OW and she said that WH was helping her find a place to move in together and I had point blank asked him. He said no....well just one more lie to add to the growing pile.
I feel like I'm back to day one and no steam to make it to day 2 right now.
HELP !
you are not at day one, that was along time ago. what did you look at on D day, i am sure divorce.... i looked up homes....
that was january and he was all screwy, just go up to him and say "i am so glad you didnt rent that really awful apartment/house in january- it was just condemed for drugs" kiss his head and say can i get you anything from our beatiful kitchen" thats just me may be a bit of a dig, but you wont blow up- you will giggle.
chin up!!
Lol. Thanks dee...I did need that. We are having big issues with his h&o ....actually just the openness and that is my number 1 need.
I spoke to him about it and he said he will work on it more.
chkin in on you, lots of support you are giving. how are you doing?
It feels good to be able to help alittle even thoug I don't think we are getting the full truth over there. At least the help will maybe help someone else is how im thinking of it.
Im doing ok, we are counting the days when we can have our business open and can work full time together. We are going on a long vacation September 5th to 13th then working one more week at our jobs and then we are done. I have turned in my notice but his job is one of those you turn in and they tell u to go on home.
It is something we both love and is not as time constructive so we can have more UA tome during the week. Right now it is mostly weekends and I start to feel it toward the end of the week.
Openness is still an issue but I can tell he is working on it. He grew up where you never told anyone how you felt and it will take awhile to get over that.
Typing on my phone so please forgive the typos on my posts. Little keys and big fingers.
Breakthrough !
This is an example openess that I needed.
I have headaches alot and this stress brings them on more. I have been to several doctors and many tests and they say they are just stress headaches and just give me something to knock me out.
I had one last night and felt really bad about having to take something and lay down leaving my husband to take care of the house and dogs. I expressed for the 100th time "I'm so sorry I'm sick so much and I hate to have to have you take care of everything" The guilt over this makes me just about as sick as the headache itself.
He has always said "it was ok and he would take care of me" but I FINALLY get out today "I dont mind taking care of you. It actually makes me feel good to know I can"
He wants to feel needed. I CAN DO THAT!
Ok question. We have a 3rd phone on our plan that we recently took away from our DSS that moved back in with his mom. I was checking the phone bill and noticed this phone had some data usage on it in the last few days. I thought that was funny because we had set it on the side table and had not used it.
Well I come home and it is not on the table. I asked husband if he knew where it was and he said no..... remember we had a case of the lost A phone in between the d-days. The usage is so small it could even be updates but I would have thougt it would be.dead.by now.
Any advice? Should I just move the number to a spare phone I have in hand and forget it?
Why is the number still active? If you anticipate returning the phone to DSS in the future, then maybe have the line suspended until that time. That way DSS can have the same number when the phone is returned to him and re-activated.
Watch for the phone to re-appear and then grab it and put it some place where it cannot be found.
P.S I get those headaches too and always felt guilty about leaving DH to fend for the kids and himself after a long day at work. I never thought that maybe it made him feel good to take care of us. I think you have something there ... thanks.
I just had the number moved to my old phone. The contract is not up for anouther year so we had the number changed and left it at the house. I will be taking this one to work with me so it can't get "lost". The old phone does not require a data plan either so cheaper that way.
LuvsDavid,
I saw your post on hbsteve's thread about trying to find OWH name.
You can go to the county clerk's recording office and get the owners name of any property. It is a nominal fee for the service (if any). They never ask why you want it or even bat an eye.
Good luck in your search.
I tried that. They must rent becuase the owner is a 90 year old man that I cant trace back to them at all. He is several states away. I even tried her car plate #s. Cant get his info just her family that does not care. It's all about her and her happiness.
I even signed up on classmates.com under another name becuase she had her high school listed. She is supposed to be moving out in a month (according to facebook) I plan on going by the house in a few weeks and see if I can catch him home and her moved. Even if she is not with him he needs to know. If I can see that she has moved, I will send him a letter in the mail if he is not home.
Argh!!!! Why can I not get it out of my head that HE POSTED FOR WOMEN ON CRAIGSLIST AND PLENTY OF FISH?
every time I read a story of howan affair started .... talking to someone you know....didn't mean for it to happen....she was just a friend. My brain keeps jumping back to the fact that MINE DID MEAN IT! He was looking for an affair.
There is simply no other explaination for it. I think this running around in my brain is stalling recover big time.
We are trying to get back to the plan but im withdrawn alot.
every time I read a story of howan affair started .... talking to someone you know....didn't mean for it to happen....she was just a friend. My brain keeps jumping back to the fact that MINE DID MEAN IT! He was looking for an affair.
And the solution to this is? (Quiz time!)
I know...just stop it. I think im going to have to take a break from the board because other peoples story triggers me but I don't want to lose the good advice.
I know...just stop it. I think im going to have to take a break from the board because other peoples story triggers me but I don't want to lose the good advice.
You aren't alone in this.
Also, it's less of a "just stop it."
The solution is to adhere to the MB policies; The Policy of Joint Agreement, The Policy of Radical Honesty, and - most importantly - the Policy of Undivided Attention.
One thing I am personally beginning to strongly advocate is finding
exciting activities to share during UA.
Do some looking, and find some local activities that are free, or low-cost. I know in my city there are several inexpensive dance classes which are often followed by dances.
This provides an opportunity to do something; new, exciting, sustainable.
It also involves music, which is a highly bonding subject for people.
I dont think I could ever get my husband drunk enough to want to dance.
We are going to Vegas and out to CA where he grew up in 2 weeks and will be out there for 10 days so I'm looking forward to that.
We like to hike and site see so we have been going to the gym 3 times a week for the past month so I can do more without getting so tired. (I'm way out of shape but not really overweight)
Also planning a day trip to the Grand Canyon while there.
We are still working on getting a MB plan set in stone. That is our biggest hold up. I dont think he understood how important it was and now he is getting it.
I know...just stop it. I think im going to have to take a break from the board because other peoples story triggers me but I don't want to lose the good advice.
I am with you there LuvsDavid. Sometimes it just brings it all back with a powerful force. But I can't stay away because these people are wise beyond words.
The vacation sounds great. I love the west ... especially the desert.
Ok,here is the update.
We have been back from Vacation for a week now. Still not finished with the building to get the business started so I'm still working part time from home on my old job. They didnt replace me even after me giving a 2 month notice.
FWH got fired from his job a few days before we left, (problems with a co-worker) so I was way triggered for the few days he was here alone. The A started when he was out of work last year for a hurt shoulder and I was working during the day. He said he felt like he was not worth anything and looking for someone to give him a "boost".
The second day I found where he had been clicking on the "random pictures" as the bottom of his hobby forumn, said it didnt mean anything but somehow they were all of half naked women in sexy poses. I told him that bothered me, he said that he never thought it would and I told him that he needed to think more. If any of those people that he had clicked on had been from around here, I would not have even asked questions, he would have been out.
He just does not think sometimes. (I know, DJ but I didnt say that to him)
On my side, I'm still triggered every day (even 2000 miles away). I think I'm going back into withdrawl becuase even when we are together I feel lonely sometimes. I want us to make it work but I'm just out of energy to do it.
We have done the EN questions but it does not seem to be helping. I think my Love bank was so empty when we started. I made a chart kinda like a thermometer listing mine and his love bank so we can monitor our progress, and his is way higher than mine.
Thinking about the A all the time drains it faster than he can re-fill it and I cant fix it.
To top that off, we are hitting the year mark of when it all happened and that makes me think of it more.
I feel like I should not be feeling like I do now. I feel like I should be more "in love" with him now and I'm not.
Because we are both unemplyeed, we cant do the online course now but I think that would help as we are stuck. I have to keep what we have on the credit cards for just in case. He is looking for a temp job untill we can open the business and I'm still working part time but that will not last long.
Anyway, that is where I stand. I'm not going to take away the internet because that is how Im working from home and if I have to go that far, the M is not worth saving. I will never feel safe if I have to keep taking away things. He has to have his boundries set and follow them without me leading him by the nose.
I am so sorry for you!. I dont know what to say other than i can understand some of your feelings.
He needs a smak (DJ sorry). But maybe you need to get tougher and say it this or the highway and hes need to jump on board asap, beacuse you can do this alone.
i have felt the same way, H is working very hard but i feel like i am draging him along. I explained that i needed him to be more enthusiastic/excited and passionate about this. he agreed and in the 2 days he has been doing so.
Why dont you "plan A" him for a few days.
Chickadee1 you can do it My husband cheated on me and you can survive. I read my bible a lot and pray but he was confronted and I told his parents that was a blow out and a half. We are in martial counseling now and he works in Brazil so It does get better. If your questioning what he does on the computer see about paying for and installing a keylogger so you can see where he has been while he is surfing the web. He wont be able to see it and its worth the money I spent to get it. He needs to be held accountable for his actions. Hope this helps
Im 2 steps away from plan FU i have a keylogger on his droid that works most of the time. That is how I saw he was looking at the pictures. He didn't deny it when asked and I asked him if there was anything else on here that would upset me..... he said no but when I looked at his history on the phone thy were deleted. In other words if I didn't have the logger I would not have know.
THAT UPSET ME. If he didn't think it would bother me he would not have deleted them.
Question....does anyone know if a droid deletes random web history? He said he was willing to take a poly to prove he didn't delete them.
I came on to bed and left him in the livingroom. I just can't tell when he is telling the truth anymore.
Question....does anyone know if a droid deletes random web history? He said he was willing to take a poly to prove he didn't delete them.
Yes, the droid has gotten a lot of complaints from consumers for the random deletion of custom ringtones and web history.
Don't pay for a polygrapher just yet. But don't quit snooping.
Now go get David off the couch.
I just can't tell when he is telling the truth anymore.
Don't believe you ever can tell. Double-blind studies have repeatedly demonstrated that a spouse can deceive 75% of the time without detection, while a stranger is very close to 50%.
Transparency is the only way. And that doesn't always come from his mouth. It comes from his actions.
the droid stinks! H is back to the blackberry now. it would hold the tracker, didnt record the calls. just a mess. drop ( yes from the window) the droid and get a new phone, it will make you feel better.
LOL, I'm finally working from home myself now so I'm pretty much around him all the time now. I do feel better when I can be around him so he does not get "bored" if you know what I mean.
I love my droid but I will look into a new phone for him. Our contract on one is just about over so we can switch.
Okay quick question... does joining a bowling league count as UA ? I know it would cover RC But we are not alone. We went bowling tonight And really enjoyed it. Also no way I can be triggered.
Okay quick question... does joining a bowling league count as UA ? I know it would cover RC But we are not alone. We went bowling tonight And really enjoyed it. Also no way I can be triggered.
I don't know that it strictly applies as UA time - this is more recreation. But this is a great thing for the two of you! H and I bowled for years and had a great time. Lots of good memories, lots of bowling stuff to talk about. I wouldn't call it UA time, but don't give it up - if the two of you enjoy it, pursue it!
probably not ua time but the car ride, to and from does. are you in your own lane, then maybe? happy that you had fun!
Going bowling together 100% absolutely counts as UA time. As long as you are paying more attention to one another than your bowling-mates!
FWW and I got into a similar discussion. We often go on double-dates. Does that count as UA time? Well, we have to make sure we're sitting next to each other, holding hands, and talking with each other at least as much as our double-date partners. So then, yeah, it counts.
But if you're going bowling and he talks to his buddies and she talks to her friends, then I'd say no, that ain't UA time
Remember RC is more the man's need, too. He's glad to have his wife there to show off. Having her with him when they're doing recreation deposits love units.
It's tough to have Intimate Conversation in a bowling alley, though, so schedule time just to talk over an ice cream or something afterward. And be very affectionate with one another while at the alley, particularly the man needs to remember to be the gentlemen, buy her drinks, help her with shoes, whatever he can think of to do to show that he's thinking of her while she's bowling.
UA time is ultimately what you make of it...
Our ENs are very simulator. RC and admiration are in the top 5 for us both. Which is strange since we both need admiration it would seem per Dr Harley that it would be easy to do but were are both still lacking.
I have put a dry erase board up with both of our top it 5on it and we check off the 2top that we feel lacking the most and we try harder to meet those for each other and we have both RC & AD checked.
It'd kinda funny because when taking the questionares, I had more "mans" needs and he had more "womans needs. I could care less about conversation as im a very quite person.
It has been a while since I have been here. NOw that my husband has been in Brazil for the last month he has chosen on the day of my son's birthday to ask for a divorce. Of course after haven gone through a month of hell before that. We were both im martial counseling. I am totally devestated again. I am picking him up from the airport in the morning and we are supposed to talk and he is getting his car. Any advice and help would be appreciated. I am unemployed and he rubbed that in my face as well. He is going to his parents house and stay. I am just so I don';t know. ADVICE PLEASE HELP
It has been a while since I have been here. NOw that my husband has been in Brazil for the last month he has chosen on the day of my son's birthday to ask for a divorce. Of course after haven gone through a month of hell before that. We were both im martial counseling. I am totally devestated again. I am picking him up from the airport in the morning and we are supposed to talk and he is getting his car. Any advice and help would be appreciated. I am unemployed and he rubbed that in my face as well. He is going to his parents house and stay. I am just so I don';t know. ADVICE PLEASE HELP
Do you have a thread we could post on in SAA? That way we can catch up on your situation.
cv
It has been a while since I have been here. NOw that my husband has been in Brazil for the last month he has chosen on the day of my son's birthday to ask for a divorce. Of course after haven gone through a month of hell before that. We were both im martial counseling. I am totally devestated again. I am picking him up from the airport in the morning and we are supposed to talk and he is getting his car. Any advice and help would be appreciated. I am unemployed and he rubbed that in my face as well. He is going to his parents house and stay. I am just so I don';t know. ADVICE PLEASE HELP
browneyedgirl, you have ignored our advice so far. What can we do for you now?
He is going to his parents house and stay. I am just so I don';t know. ADVICE PLEASE HELP
This is the perfect time to go into Plan B.
Go re-read 'Surviving An Affair' by Dr. Willard Harley & Jennifer Harley Chalmers. Focus on the Plan B letter. Be extremely cordial to him and meet his needs, but do not be willing to discuss divorce; keep changing the topic if he brings it up. Once he moves out to his parents house is a PERFECT time to:
1) Deliver a Plan B letter to him.
2) EXPOSE the affair to EVERYONE YOU KNOW, particularly those people who you think might have an impact on your husband (i.e. his parents). Let those to whom you expose know that he's moving out to pursue the affair without the guilt associated from living with you.
You might want to start option 2 immediately. Grab a cell phone and go somewhere away from home when you start making exposure phone calls to his relatives. Stay on-target with those you speak to to let them know that that you are exposing this affair to get help and advice from them on how to deal with it. Depending on how many friends/relatives you have, this effort may take all day. Pack a lunch, go to a good friend's house that your husband won't guess you're there, and expose like MAD for a full day!
wow, I come back to my thread and we are talking about plan B?
Just kidding.
Her original Thread here:
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...in=164279&Number=2533226#Post2533226
I would have to go back and see if I can find the link to catch everyone up. I picked him up at the airport and was told that all he could offer me was friendship and he was not doing anything drastic. He is staying at his parents house and have not seen him since I picked him up at the airport. The situation was that we were going to counseling and up till the day he left the last time he was still texting the ow. As of now he is at his parents house and we are texting and have spoken to him on occasion. States he has a bunch of anger built up that he needs to get rid of and supposed to see a doctor phsyco md. I don't know at this point what to do with him and not sure how to proceed. I don't want to be used again. This last week was like it started all over again and the pain was too fresh. Any insight is appreciated. We were both going to counseling and now he refuses to go told me he was no longer involved with ow. I blocked her phone number from his but that does not mean much when you can buy a disposable phone and still contact her. Please give me some feedback on what I should do. I am truly lost at this point
Just keep saying unless he is willing to give up the OW for good and work on a plan to save the marriage you can't be a part of this mess.....
Tell him it's up to him that you are willing but can't let yourself accept anything less then you deserve, you be nice and show him you can be who he wants to have in his life........
You need to keep yourself busy and exercise if you can, show him that unless he gets on board the life he knew will be over......
Hang in there breathe and know you are worth standing up for.........
Don't settle this is your chance to get it right for you...........he either gets on board or he leaves you alone......his choice, don't be afraid, not many affair partners actually chose the OP over the partner they have had, fantasy is fantasy, when reality hits that the true colours come out quickly......
When you aren't filling any of his needs any longer he will miss those and want to have that back, unless he has a chance to miss you he will continue to have both of you..........
stand firm but with calm and integrity..
browneyedgirl, I have bumped your thread in Surviving an Affair. Please bring the posters up to date on your own thread so this poster's thread is not disrupted.
I am worth more that the ow that is for sure I have done some spying and found a prepaid cell phone that she has been texting furiously since the 10th of this month
I don't know who is on the other end of the phone. I am still exercising and have lost about 30 pounds we went to lunch and he told me I looked good. Im at the point of getting very angry because I am. Not going to text or call him anymore he does need to know that I will not be filling his needs. Thanks for the sage advice
I am worth more that the ow that is for sure I have done some spying and found a prepaid cell phone that she has been texting furiously since the 10th of this month
I don't know who is on the other end of the phone. I am still exercising and have lost about 30 pounds we went to lunch and he told me I looked good. Im at the point of getting very angry because I am. Not going to text or call him anymore he does need to know that I will not be filling his needs. Thanks for the sage advice
OK, PLEASE USE YOUR POST : HERE:
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...in=164279&Number=2533226#Post2533226I keep seeing responses to my thread and think I have someone wanting to talk to me.
Browneyedgirl, I have bumped your original thread again. Your thread is located on the Surviving an Affair forum.
If you are confused as to how to navigate to this forum, please click on this link and it will take you there:
"Just Found Out Devastated" Please refrain from updating your situation on other posters threads. This is my second request.
Pray for me tonight guys. I never felt like I got full disclosure because of trickle truth and it is still bothering me almost a year later so I asked him to write it all out for me tonight.
I know this might set me back to square one but I feel like if I don't start it right it might come back and bite me later. Im scared of what I don't know but I needed to do this. I never got 100%full of what I was supposed to recover from. Yes im the kind that needs to know everything..... details.
Give me strength to read the letter he is writing and move forward.
Pray for me tonight guys. I never felt like I got full disclosure because of trickle truth and it is still bothering me almost a year later so I asked him to write it all out for me tonight.
I know this might set me back to square one but I feel like if I don't start it right it might come back and bite me later. Im scared of what I don't know but I needed to do this. I never got 100%full of what I was supposed to recover from. Yes im the kind that needs to know everything..... details.
Give me strength to read the letter he is writing and move forward.
Luvs,
you can do this. My wife just finished her novel and it's been three years. We had time-lines and such, but I had never asked her to write it out story form.
Keep an eye on this: It's been a year, some details won't be remembered as well as others... If nothing you find out changes the story (insignificant details), then move forward.
It's hard. took me three days to work up the courage...
Be strong, we're praying.
Well, I had a feeling there was more. He "remembered" one more day at a motel. I told him I wanted details and this is what I got
"the day I met her Just rode around on back roads around XXXX and talked.
Second time road around the woods near first XXX exit and kissed some.
After that we met 2 times at cheap motel on the XXX road in XXX.
Met a couple more times where we just road around.
Then met at Hotel for the one night.
Then met at walmart to get pre paid phone.
Last time we met was when we went across XXXX parkway and nothig happened.
Had sex 4 times total"
Wow, VERY detailed.
I'm pissed about the extra time becuase he had went into details before about how condoms are cheaper in the single pack than the 3 pack. He said he bought one single for the 1 motel room I knew about and a 3 pack that he had one left from the overnight in the Hotel.
Pray for me tonight guys. I never felt like I got full disclosure because of trickle truth and it is still bothering me almost a year later so I asked him to write it all out for me tonight.
I know this might set me back to square one but I feel like if I don't start it right it might come back and bite me later. Im scared of what I don't know but I needed to do this. I never got 100%full of what I was supposed to recover from. Yes im the kind that needs to know everything..... details.
Give me strength to read the letter he is writing and move forward.
Luvs,
you can do this. My wife just finished her novel and it's been three years. We had time-lines and such, but I had never asked her to write it out story form.
Keep an eye on this: It's been a year, some details won't be remembered as well as others... If nothing you find out changes the story (insignificant details), then move forward.
It's hard. took me three days to work up the courage...
Be strong, we're praying.
How many pages is this story for you to call it a novel?
No, I think his wife was really writing a fiction novel.
Luvs,
you can do this. My wife just finished her novel and it's been three years. We had time-lines and such, but I had never asked her to write it out story form.
Keep an eye on this: It's been a year, some details won't be remembered as well as others... If nothing you find out changes the story (insignificant details), then move forward.
It's hard. took me three days to work up the courage...
Be strong, we're praying.
How many pages is this story for you to call it a novel?
It was 14 total. Not really long I guess. 3 years out, we had discussed so many details, I wanted a sort of timeline in story form. Something I could say "ok, it's done and we're moving on".
No, I think his wife was really writing a fiction novel.
I think that's another poster... Can't remember who...
Well, I had a feeling there was more. He "remembered" one more day at a motel. I told him I wanted details and this is what I got
"the day I met her Just rode around on back roads around XXXX and talked.
Second time road around the woods near first XXX exit and kissed some.
After that we met 2 times at cheap motel on the XXX road in XXX.
Met a couple more times where we just road around.
Then met at Hotel for the one night.
Then met at walmart to get pre paid phone.
Last time we met was when we went across XXXX parkway and nothig happened.
Had sex 4 times total"
Wow, VERY detailed.
I'm pissed about the extra time becuase he had went into details before about how condoms are cheaper in the single pack than the 3 pack. He said he bought one single for the 1 motel room I knew about and a 3 pack that he had one left from the overnight in the Hotel.
That was a pretty significant detail! How are you doing?
Not good. Been in bed most of yesterday and today. I asked 2him times about the extra condom and never got an answer.
I don't think I will ever get the whole truth so now I have to decide if I can live with that and move on.
I told him last night im giving myself one more year to be happy and it was his job to fill my needs to make that happen.
Im not in love with him at this point. I want to be but when I stop planning anything it just falls apart. I don't want to have a life where im "forcing" him to fill my needs.
Luvs:
I feel your pain. It sucks to be the one doing the pushing.
It doesn't sound to me like your H is working his side of the plan. I wonder, could you tell him that you need action on his part. Say ... every other week, you take turns leading a discussion about your ENs and EPs and how you're going to try to meet them in the coming week. THat puts him in the driver's seat and might start turning the tide on behavior, which will lead to renewed feelings of love.
It might also give you time to really plan out UA time, which we all know is so critical to building.
We wives are so used to doing all the planning. It's time to come up with a way to make him far more active in your recovery.
Just my thoughts,
Sweetpea
We cant even get through the books in one year without me pushing. We did HNHN first then found out we should have done LB's first. We were reading every night becuase I would bring it up we needed to go to bed early to read. I stopped bringing it up about a month ago and that was the last time we read.
NEED TO VENT -
I'm done unless he shows some progress. I'm NOT going to live day by day seeing if he really cares enough to make it work. I'm better than that.
I feel like I have been in plan A without the affair for almost a year now and I'm tired. My love bank is at zero and his is going down hill because I have stopped with his needs.
Maybe he was better off with his OW. She was the helpless type that ALWAYS asked for things. Maybe she would not get tired of asking.
Luvs:
Vent away, sister! I totally understand how you're feeling.
And he may not be worth it, in the end.
And are you absolutely sure there's no contact? I mean really, really sure? Apathy usually means spouse is still in fog, or in contact. Hmmmm.
That said, though, I'm pretty sure Marital or Pep would remind you that lobbing threats (you have one year or I'm out) is a LBer, and might counsel you to approach the issue with less anger and discover ways you two can shoulder the recovery burden together.
I know! You want to scream and throw up your hands. And it sucks that we BSs have to push the recovery agenda when it's NOT OUR FAULT OUR SPOUSES CHEATED.
Would it be worth a counseling session with someone from MBs? or a MB-friendly local counselor? Could you insist that he take the lead on starting something like this? Put the burden on him; make him the scheduler.
Just brainstorming here. But keep venting if you need to!
NEED TO VENT -
I'm done unless he shows some progress. I'm NOT going to live day by day seeing if he really cares enough to make it work. I'm better than that.
I feel like I have been in plan A without the affair for almost a year now and I'm tired. My love bank is at zero and his is going down hill because I have stopped with his needs.
Tell him this
I'm as sure as can be about no contact. I have loggers, GPS, free to search the car at any time, search his cell at any time. Untill last week, we were both out of a job for 2 months so we were together 24/7. that being said you would have thought we would have had ALOT of UA time but not really.
It was not put in the way of a threat so I'm good there. I'm much more vocal on here :-)
I told him I wanted to do the online course so someone else would hold him accountable but coming up with the money with both of us out of work with no unemployment is hard.
We used all my 401k to live off of for those 2 months (I used most of it for a down payment on our house 2 years ago)and he only has about 900 in his so even that is not enough.
NEED TO VENT -
I'm done unless he shows some progress. I'm NOT going to live day by day seeing if he really cares enough to make it work. I'm better than that.
I feel like I have been in plan A without the affair for almost a year now and I'm tired. My love bank is at zero and his is going down hill because I have stopped with his needs.
Tell him this
I did, I also sent him to unhappy's thread and he knows where mine is. I've even asked him to get a user name and ask questions on here but still no go.
feel like you are typing my feelings right now! i am sorry you are feeling this way. I completely understand how you feel.
I am having similar days recently, i think i am coming out of my own fog. or something with the moon......
you did say you needed more info and unfortunately you got more and i has triggered you in a way. i think this will fade. and now you are analyzing everything ( i would). But i would let him know this- it can be a very powerful statement to him. once you calm down you will see more clearly and tell him.
look at this way it all bad. its one two three four- its the first one was the one that shouldnt have happened. i know that really sound terrible. but its all terrible, what could be worse? hey you can say, at least im not chickadee if it helps you.
Lol, Dee, I would never say that.
I agree, it didnt really change things that much. I was already feeling like something else needed to be done and that was why I asked for all the info.
I feel like what Melody warns us about. My marriage is a crippled version of what it was post affair.
I do take the blame for not wanting to try to push the issue anymore but I'm just plain tired.
We are back to a few months before the affair. I had gotten tired of being room mates and stopped meeting his needs because mine were not met. I had even told him I could not go on being his room mate about a month before he started looking for someone else to meet his needs. I almost saw it coming but didnt know how to fix it.
Now I know how to fix his love bank and he knows how to fix mine. Only problem the knowlege is not doing me any good. I can make him love me more...... what about me?
I say that I'm done... then call and ask him for a dinner date.
you are venting- enjoy your dinner- take it one step at a time.
Ha- i am telling you that i am in the same hole.
It does help to vent though. I feel much better even if it does not help the recovery.
I just found this in the article section. Very good reading.
But no one told me!
by Steven W. Harley, M.S.
Bruce was absolutely furious about even being in this situation. "I was faithful year after year! I did what I was supposed to do and I never complained! I did my job!" he yelled, "Don't I get any credit for that?!"
Bruce was sitting in Andy's office, Bruce's lawyer. Bruce had just been fired from The Fealinngs Medical Company (TFMC) because Bruce lost his certification. He was meeting with Andy because Bruce was not sure what to do at this point. But he did know that it wasn't his fault.
"Andy, tell me how TFMC could be so cold? I've been a model employee for 12 years. For 12 years! And the first time that I lose my certification, BAM! I'm canned. And it wasn't my fault anyway. Can't they see that? Can't they see that I wasn't told! They didn't send the letter!"
Wait, wait, wait." Andy said, who was very confused with what Bruce was saying. "Can't who see what? Who didn't send you the letter?"
With a sigh of condescension, Bruce continued, but speaking much slower hoping Andy would understand him this time. "TFMC fired me because I lost my certification. But, what I tried to tell them was that I never got the information letter from the State Certification Board."
"Information letter? What information letter?" Andy questioned.
Bruce sighed again and continued. "It's a letter that the certification board sends out every year covering all the certification renewal information and when all of that stuff has to be in. I never got it!" he yelled. "This is what I tried to tell TFMC, but they wouldn't listen. They just fired me."
"Can't you just reapply?" Andy asked.
"Sure. But once you lose it, it takes 2 years to get it back. TFMC said that they didn't want to wait that long. They said that they needed someone who was certified to do the job right now. So, they are going to look for someone else." Bruce said in a very defeated voice.
But as Bruce sat in his chair and pondered his situation, he became increasingly angry and said, "I want to sue the state, Andy." "What?" Andy replied. "It's their fault!" Bruce exclaimed. "Every year, they would send me a clear reminder about what I had to. They spelled out what I had to do over the next year and when I had to do it. Every year for 11 years in a row, this is what they did. It was the routine. It was how it was done." With an almost sinister look on his face and increasing hope that this is how he could get his job back, in a louder voice said, "So, when they forgot to send it out this year, how was I supposed to know! No one told me!!"
Andy sprung up from his high-back leather chair and quickly shut the office door. "You'd better calm down, Bruce! And right now!" Andy stated with disgust. "Allow me to explain something to you here. And because we go way back, I'll be straight with you. Ok?" Bruce nodded. Andy continued, "It is YOU who is responsible to get those continuing education credits in on time. It is YOUR responsibility to understand how and when you need to get all that stuff in." Andy was becoming increasingly irritated. "Who do you think you are anyway? Do you think you're something special that the state would assume full responsibility for holding your hand every year so that you could maintain your expertise? Why would they do that?" he yelled. "You're a piece of work, Bruce. You really are."
Andy took a moment to gather his composure. He usually gets upset with himself when he loses his temper like that. But, there are few things in life that bother Andy more than people who refuse to see their own responsibility in things.
"Let me put it to you this way, Bruce." Andy said as he leaned forward in his chair. "Why do you like working at TFMC?"
Bruce had a puzzled look on his face because he wasn't sure where this was going.
"Why do you like working there?" Andy asked again.
Bruce answered, "Because it's my passion. It's what I love doing. I really enjoy how I'm treated there. Well, at least I used to enjoy it. And if I'm going to have to pay the bills doing something, this is what I want to do."
"So it's about as important to you than anything else you can think of, huh?" Andy stated in a very self-assured manner.
Bruce quickly responded, "It IS as important to me than anything else I can think of. It's my life, Andy. That's exactly why I want it back." Bruce started to feel depressed the more he thought about not working at TFC.
Andy continued his line of questioning in a very direct yet sincere voice. "Bruce, if it is so important to you, if that job is such a source of joy in your life, then why on earth would you rely on anyone but yourself to make sure that you were doing what you need to do in order to keep it? Any information provided by the state should be viewed as a SERVICE, not a right. Does it make your job easier when they provide this service? Absolutely! However, maintaining the requirements to keep your certifications is still YOUR responsibility."
Bruce literally sank in his chair as he felt the weight of responsibility drop in his lap.
So, how does this apply to your marriage? Consider TFMC as a representation of your spouse, the certification as a measure of expertise at meeting your spouse's needs and avoiding Love Busters, and the continuing education information letter as how to maintain your expertise.
It's nice to have important information provided for you. However, since maintaining your expertise is so critical to having a happy marriage, why not make it your responsibility to gather the necessary information?
Food for thought...
GREAT article, LD!
For what it's worth, I think you have to be direct with your H, spelling out very specific ways your H can contribute to your love bank without beating around the bush and without LBing.
That's what I've been trying to do lately - is give my husband direction and asking for specifics.
So often we want them to want to take the lead and they don't and we just get frustrated. Maybe you can hand H the books or workbook or whatever and tell him you want him to set up a schedule to get this done or something.
I do understand how you feel: you want to see progress, not apathy. Often when THEY feel things are good they don't see the need for action. You have to let him know it's not all good with you, in the most loving way possible.
Ii have told him all of this and it will get better for a few days. Im to the point that having to tell him is a LB in itself.
I think I have to face the fact that I have a renter and he does not want to put that much work into it. It was easier to find someone else last time and I feel like he will do it again instead of working on us.
I pray im wrong and he will step up but so far he has went to craigslist more in the past 2 days than this site. Maybe if I post an add in the wanted section of craigslist he will respond. Who knows anymore. Im on AD's and I know they are working but im still going downhill fast.
All I've wanted to do is sleep for days and the only reason im getting up is my dogs need taking care of.
Ahhh...I didn't realize you've told him this previously. (I didn't read the whole thread, just the last couple of pages. I need to go back to the beginning I suppose to get the whole story.)
Maybe this has been addressed before...but what does he say about his frame of reference right now? Is he happy? Is he thinking nothing needs to change? What is he looking for on Craigslist?
I have suffered with depression in the past. Still do when I'm not careful to make sure I'm controlling it. I know how it feels to want to do nothing but sleep and isolate, and it isn't good.
What do you have in your life that's "yours"? I found going back to school very invigorating for me. It gave me goals and a sense of accomplishment. I didn't realize how badly I needed it until I jumped in and did it. Also, I made a point to have friends to do things with. That way I wasn't looking at H as my sole source of companionship. I started all this while I was Plan Aing, before discovering the affair. I have continued thrugh recovery.
I know your spouse needs to be your #1 companion, but I find that when you have more to bring to the table in terms of your own life, it sparks your spouse's interest in you and your feelings. When you're dealing with depression, you don't bring much to the table because it's all you can do to make it to the table!
Since you are already on ADs perhaps there are some lifestyle choices you can make that will help. ???
I feel for ya!
He just looks through the stuff for sale. He buys cheap cars and fixes them up to resale.
He is happy for the most part but im sure that will change since im not meeting his needs as much.
So, do you think he is just being lazy or that he doesn't care?
I find that sometimes what I feel is lack of caring is just that my H is perfectly satisfied and thus not as motivated to do things differently. Change can be hard. It's easy to slip back into "the usual" and it has to be a daily effort.
Lazy, I had mentioned that Dees husband had come here but untill I was in tears today over him not doing anything unless I led him by the nose. He finally signed up and posted once. We will see how many times he posts and how long he sticks around.
If he would just put in 10% of the effort he did with her for my recovery, I would be better off than I am now. He would text her 400 texts a day and talk on the phone with her for hours at a time when they could not meet up.
I get maybe 2 or 3 texts a day telling me what time he is getting off and he loves me.
When we first started the recovery, he would do little things like send me texts for no reason or little notes or small .99 stuffed animals that said I love you. He has not done things like that in several months.
I miss it but if I tell him I want them, it is not the same.
Ok update. He has read in LB outloud to me 2 nights in a row. It was kinda funny because his new jobs hours are all over the place .... I never know when he will be home.
Anyway when he opened the book to read Saturday after getting off several hours late. The chapter we were supposed to read that night was chapter 10. "Resolving conflict over career choices and time management" he thought I had set that up but I didn't. That was where we left off.
Anyway it really had some things in it that got him thinking. He said the hours are crazy right now because they didn't have a trailer mechanic for so long they are backlogged and in a week or 2 he will be caught up and he will discuss set hours he had to leave by even if he had to go in earlier.
Sorry about double posts but my phone will not scroll down.
I guess some of the things you guys are saying are really sinking in. Don't get upset if he does not answer during the day because he is a heavy equipment mechanic and he does not pick up his phone unless he has to. He has damaged a few phones on the job.
I can see him trying some like he cooked for me last night and was more affectionate. I just don't want to get my hopes up again.
If in his posts it ever sounds like I need to step up in something ..please send the 2x4's this way. I might be as lost as he is.
Well dang keylogger.
20 mins before going to work. First 2mins on his post this morning.....rest looking around at junk on craigslist. Im just so diapointed. I really thought u guys were getting through.
Im just so diapointed. I really thought u guys were getting through.
It's a marathon, not a 50M dash.....
This will require the willingness for BOTH of you to be radically honest with the other if your marriage is going to survive. Tell him when he is hitting the mark, and tell him when he is not!
Does he know how you know what he does? He is not going to find out by reading here?
I did. I even worded it where he would understand
I said "in how would you feel if you gave me a website about something that was very important to you and told me our marriage depended on me learning everything I could on this site. How would you feel if you came home and I was playing a computer game instead? "
He said he got it.
Oh and he said you asked about NCL and EPs. We had already covered that before we found MB and im satified with both of those things. He had a small slip up last month looking at pictures but I called him on it and he tightened that one up.
Oh and he said you asked about NCL and EPs. We had already covered that before we found MB and im satified with both of those things. He had a small slip up last month looking at pictures but I called him on it and he tightened that one up.
I'm building dialog with him to see what he understands about MB vs what he doesn't. It may feel like pulling teeth in the beginning, but I can tell he's apprehensive to begin with.... so steady we go.
If I cover each step with him, he won't be able to say, "I didn't understand this/that". KWIM?
You need to work on providing your H with "Care & Protection", while we work on teaching him how to provide that to you.
Again, it's a marathon, not a sprint!
Oh and he said you asked about NCL and EPs. We had already covered that before we found MB and im satified with both of those things. He had a small slip up last month looking at pictures but I called him on it and he tightened that one up.
"He" wrote a NC letter?
"He" wrote out a list of EP's that you are enthusiastic with?
I really appriciate what you are doing. I know you have your life and a new little girl to take care of. (just noticed this in your sig. Congrats!)
I think he will open up to you as he said he was very supprised at how nice everyone was to him. I think he was expecting everyone to jump all over him as if he was still wayward.
I had lent my SAA to my son when he had his d-day but I told him to bring it back to me because I think David needs to read it. I read it and I guess I didnt translate it correctly before starting on the other books becuase he was still VERY touchy about even reading the word Affiar so I didnt make him read it.
He is supposed to bring it Thrusday and we have a few more chapters on LBs and then we will do the worksheets for that.
Did he come clean with ALL the questions you've had regarding his affair? Did he give you an adequate timeline of events?
Oh and he said you asked about NCL and EPs. We had already covered that before we found MB and im satified with both of those things. He had a small slip up last month looking at pictures but I called him on it and he tightened that one up.
"He" wrote a NC letter?
"He" wrote out a list of EP's that you are enthusiastic with?
No, he didnt write one and the ending was not exactly how I would have liked it because he admitted when he called to call it off she was breaking up with him first. I verified this with her the next day that she said she was done because he was lying to her. If you feel he should write one, please let him know but I dont really need it as I have been at peace about the ending for awhile now.
EP's are not written out but we have talked about them. I would love to see them written out so we can make sure was are on the same page. He has givin me examples of how he will never put himself in that place again but in writting would be nice.
Did he come clean with ALL the questions you've had regarding his affair? Did he give you an adequate timeline of events?
I think this last time I did but it had an extra time of sex that he remembered. I asked him when he "remembered" it and never really got an answer on that. I told him if he remembers anything else I must know right away. I had known there was more than he said, I had talked to her all day via texts the day after she called it quits.
Thank you again for everything, He is going to talk to his work today to set a more rigid schedual. As of right now, I never know when he is going to get off work and it makes UA time hard to work on. He had to take what ever he got untill he proved that he was good at what he does (works on and rebuilds 18 wheeler trailers). They asked him to come on as temp untill the end of the year but now they are asking him to stay on. I have no problem with it since he really loves to work there but I had to have a set work schedual.
The guys that run the shop live in another town and stay at a campgroud during the week and go home only on weekends so they think nothing of going out to eat for 3 hours in the middle of the day and staying at the shop untill 9 or so at night.....That does not fly with me.
I'm so tired today. My poor husband was looking forward to going to work to rest and he is a heavy equipment mechanic which is NOT easy. He is lifting heavy stuff and welding most of the day.
We are building a commercial dog kennel in the back yard to start dog boarding and he is custom building the runs for me. We got up at 6 each morning and went shopping for materials and was out working by 12 until dark. We went out to eat Saturday and spent some good time together throughout the day but man it was hard exercise for me.
He made some good deposits this weekend by helping me and no matter how tired he was, he took care of me and rubbed my back becuase it was cramping. He even came in a cooked last night becuase I could hardly stand on my feet they were hurting so much.
Overall a good weekend. Now time for me to get up and start some DS for him...lol. The house looks like a tornado came through it.
so glad your weekend went well!!!
gave your H a bit of a hard time on his post- sorry i didnt know you physically needed him to build things for your business!! oops!
Lol its ok. He can take it. We were not even in the house much so I don't think he read it untill today and he said he would do it tonight so he could post a draft for pappa bear.
He seemed disappointed I didn't want to read but I was in real pain last night. I have bad feet and was on them way too long yesterday. I just would not have been able to concentrate.
you did a really great job tonite on your posting
Thank u. I really hopehe comes around but I have a feeling she will be here for awhile.
I've not seen your husband here in awhile. Keeping him busy?
Ok David spoke 2 weeks ago about exposing to his son and a friend because im getting blamed for him not being able to do the same things he did pre A.
His son has even stopped coming over on his weekends because " he can't do anything without me anymore" while this is not true before the A husband would spend %100 of his time away with his son on weekends. Now we do things together when we can afford it.
I guess my question is about poja. He is not enthusiastic about it because it will be embarrassing and uncomfortable but I really need to feel like his son not coming over is not my fault.
Family is very important to him so I know it hurts that his son is being selfish a out this.
Should I push this or let it go. Remember I didn't expose because I didn't know I should before we were pretty much in recovery.
Ok David spoke 2 weeks ago about exposing to his son and a friend because im getting blamed for him not being able to do the same things he did pre A.
His son has even stopped coming over on his weekends because " he can't do anything without me anymore" while this is not true before the A husband would spend %100 of his time away with his son on weekends. Now we do things together when we can afford it.
I guess my question is about poja. He is not enthusiastic about it because it will be embarrassing and uncomfortable but I really need to feel like his son not coming over is not my fault.
Family is very important to him so I know it hurts that his son is being selfish a out this.
Should I push this or let it go. Remember I didn't expose because I didn't know I should before we were pretty much in recovery.
What a load of *edit*!
Protecting his image is more important than being honest...
Protecting his image and his lies is more important than protecting YOU!
He is still wayward in his thinking!!
Let him know you need to POJA
HOW to get it done, with you being present, when the truth occurs....
I guess the highlighted part was a DJ because he has not really told me why he keeps putting it off. I feel like if I keep bringing it up, I'm pushing again. I keep feeling like it is getting swept under the rug and he is letting me take the fall for some of it. I know it is my fault I didnt expose but it was a month after the fact and I didnt need to break it up. He had already chosen me.
I guess I'm the poster child for what happens when you dont expose.
luvs of couse its your fault, not...
hes afraid to tell, they may not like him too much-
i told dss and h friends and they are ignoring him - they are mad at him, so either way its my fault too.
told sil that no H couldnt go out with them without me and they would have to respect that- big mean chicka wont let H do anything, blah blah blah - i get it
H hasnt said that but you get a sense with the small comments
where are all those rollercoaster hugs icons?
you have to click switch to full reply screen then there is a big smile face that you click and they all pop up for you to chose.
luvs of couse its your fault, not...
hes afraid to tell, they may not like him too much-
i told dss and h friends and they are ignoring him - they are mad at him, so either way its my fault too.
told sil that no H couldnt go out with them without me and they would have to respect that- big mean chicka wont let H do anything, blah blah blah - i get it
H hasnt said that but you get a sense with the small comments
where are all those rollercoaster hugs icons?
at least the reason they are staying away is the real reason and NO it is not your fault. You told them the truth. At least they have a REASON that you are being the B$tch....LOL
Ok update..
I could not sleep Saturday night because of everything that was running around in my head so I sat down and made a list of things that I needed him to do still.
One was finish the list of EPs he was working on with papabear. He has still not compiled everything and giving me the list so we can go over them and I've tried to stay out of it on his thread.
Another right off my head is the exposure. He did this yesterday. We agreed that it was ok to do it in a text as long as I approved what went out first. It went very well. His son came back and apologized for not coming around and asked if he could come next time. I was not expecting this response from him. His friends all asked if there was anything he needed and were very supportive.
He was working on the EPs when I woke up because I slept late when I finally got to sleep but I pulled him off so we could have lunch and do a few things. He will work on them again today most likley. I had 8 things total and I told him I didn't need them all at once but wanted him to work on them asap.
All in all a pretty good Sunday.
Dang can't edit a post from my phone.
Wanted to also say he tried to minimize a bit on his exposure but I didn't let him. He was saying he had "an affair" . I made him change that to multiple texting and one physical affair. He had "sexted" with MANY and had actually gone out of town and gotten a hotel room to meet one and chickened out before meeting "the one". I also made him put a time frame so they knew it was not a ONS.
I guess he is still thinking a bit "wayward" when it comes down to it.
We agreed that it was ok to do it in a text as long as I approved what went out first. It went very well. His son came back and apologized for not coming around and asked if he could come next time. I was not expecting this response from him. His friends all asked if there was anything he needed and were very supportive.
I'm glad to hear that you at least got to approve the text....
Sadly he missed out on everything associated with making face to face amends and being honest with all these people.
He pulled off a huge, upset victory,for the home team of wayward thinking. And gaslighted you yet again in the process....
He didn't have to look any one in the eye.
He didn't have to see there reaction when he told them - THEY were being used as cover for his affairs.
He didn't have to look at you while he shared this information verbally.
He didn't get to see the hurt in your eyes.
He didn't have to risk other information, that you may not know about, coming out in the form of questions from them.
He him-hawed around, pretending/looking helpless, procrastinating,,,, and then (one of you) suggested it might be better received in the form of a text.
I'm still appalled with this one;
His son came back and apologized. Really! He now feels to blame for his dads LYING about everything, and somehow feels he must apologize? He's a kid and needed clarity and the chance to ask questions. His Dad should be embarrassed!
LD, you are missing these red flags and it will come back and bite you in the form of more wayward thinking!
I'm sorry, I'm trying not to come across as harsh...
I really want you to see what you're missing...
I want you guys to succeed, with all my heart I want you guys to have the greatest marriage in the world,,,,
...but you cannot get in the way of the steps he needs to take nor get in the way of the struggles he must address on his own...
He is a big boy and MUST put on his big boy pants!
I understand and am not missing them.
One word....... RENTER
I refuse to beat my head on that wall. I will stick around for the 2 years and see if he can change that. If not he knows Im out. Im at peace....can't tell u if it is from healing or withdrawal. I have some good days and know he is not having an affair.
I understand and am not missing them.
Then stop agreeing to his half measures.....
He texted because you agreed to it!
The beauty of this forum is.......
You can send him to his thread to ask the questions like; "do you think texting my amends and disclosure is a good idea".
And WE get to point out that it's a bad idea and discuss his wayward thinking. All the while, you get to sit back, detached from any lovebusters, and just watch.
Ok Full of DJ's
I'm just tired of getting my hopes up and then see that he is only doing the bare minimum to keep me "in it" When he started posting here, I thought, that was the ticket. Now I see that he just does the same here. He does the minimum it requires. I even posted that we would see how long it lasted. (I said this becuase this is the 3rd program we started only to get 1/2 way through and he is just not into it anymore and I have to push)
If you saw the texts, you would understand. It looked like he took all your points, changed them around a bit, and wanted to send it. It was like....Ok said that....check.
I agreed to the texting becuase I saw it was the only way to get it done. He would have agreed to talking to them in person but would never get around to it.
He does not go on his hobby board anymore becuase I told him I wanted him to spend time on here.
I dont think he will ever cheat on me again becuase he KNOWS what I will do next time. I will expose far and wide. If I cant find her, I will rent a bill board (might even if I do find her). Then I will file divorce. If he is afaid to face exposer just to a few people while I'm calm, he will want to fall off the face of the earth next time.
I'm not sure what else to say. I dont like it but that is all I got. Now I just decide if it is enough. Some of the things that should be filling my LB dont anymore becuase I know it is done just to keep me here. I'm not sure how to work that one out.....any pointers?
Ok all this post got me is how he thought he was doing good. I don't complain enough that he is half a$$ing everything.
Makes me feel like he just told me I have to stand over him and make him do it.
I gave him the list of what I needed so I would not have to stand over him and this is what I get.
Im done. I will lose everything if I leave now but I guess I might be another casualty of an affair. We will see what next year holds.
Ok all this post got me is how he thought he was doing good. I don't complain enough that he is half a$$ing everything.
Makes me feel like he just told me I have to stand over him and make him do it.
I gave him the list of what I needed so I would not have to stand over him and this is what I get.
Im done. I will lose everything if I leave now but I guess I might be another casualty of an affair. We will see what next year holds.
Luvs,
Is your H posting here? I can't remember. I'm pretty sure you have, but have you asked him what he needs to get him moving and proactive on his own?
CV
He is dtl a few posts down.
I don't know if I have point blank asked but shouldn't the hurt he is causing by not doing it and his love for me be enough motivation?
I don't know if I have point blank asked but shouldn't the hurt he is causing by not doing it and his love for me be enough motivation?
Well, yes. It should be, but one thing I have seen in several FWS' is that they are often gripped with inaction because of fear of messing up.
CV
I guess looking back I have been gasslighted for awhile to the point of just letting things go. For example last night when he said he thought he was doing good and asked me what he was doing wrong I pointed out that there were several calls on his phone that he didn't tell me about and they are not numbers that I know. One of his EPs was to tell me without having to ask. His response (not in anger) "im about ready to just say I don't need a phone".
Anything that I complain about gets blown way out of proportions that I just learned not to complain.
Also anoither ep that papa bear worked hard on him with was how to comfort me when I get upset like I was last night. He was supposed to hold me and comfort me..... instead I sat in the bathroom floor sobbing for 30 mins untill I pulled it together and went to bed. I had upset and hurt him by posting my disappointment.
I guess looking back I have been gasslighted for awhile to the point of just letting things go. For example last night when he said he thought he was doing good and asked me what he was doing wrong I pointed out that there were several calls on his phone that he didn't tell me about and they are not numbers that I know. One of his EPs was to tell me without having to ask. His response (not in anger) "im about ready to just say I don't need a phone".
Anything that I complain about gets blown way out of proportions that I just learned not to complain.
Also anoither ep that papa bear worked hard on him with was how to comfort me when I get upset like I was last night. He was supposed to hold me and comfort me..... instead I sat in the bathroom floor sobbing for 30 mins untill I pulled it together and went to bed. I had upset and hurt him by posting my disappointment.
Ah. Ok. So he is relaxing in his EP's and filling your ENs. I am assuming you have reminded him of the non-negotiables, here.
Maybe removing the phone all together is what's needed for a while.
Yes. He said he didn't realize he was supposed to print out the EPs since I was going over them with them while papa bear. I was pointing out certain points in what papa bear was saying but untill I brought it back up with my list he had not even put them all together so in order for him to even review them he would have had to weed through several posts back and forth.
I told him that list was for him to review and implement daily. Not just so he could say he did the list.
He missed the whole point of the EPs list.
Im wondering about the online courses but im already behind on my house and car so im afraid it will be like all the other programs and he will get 1/2 through and stop and I would be that much worst off.
We life a very simple life where 1000 pays for house and car for a month.
I had upset and hurt him by posting my disappointment.
If dtl cannot handle you venting on this forum, a safe alternative to directly blasting him yourself, then he needs to stop reading your thread. It really is that simple!
He doesn't have to be dramatic...
CV, Ok tattle tail here.
he still has several things on that list to do first.
He has given me the list of EPs he and boxed up the R/C stuff so far. I thought it was a pretty simple list and most of it was already thought of but not put on paper. I guess I was wrong.
I compromised on boxing the stuff up because honestly his inactions are telling me that it wont matter later because he is not really wanting to stick around long and can go back to it later after im gone.
I don't know if hat is a valid feeling but it is there. You guys see it because you have called him on it. That is where im getting that he is a renter. I could be wrong but actions speak louder than words.
CV, Ok tattle tail here.
he still has several things on that list to do first.
He has given me the list of EPs he and boxed up the R/C stuff so far. I thought it was a pretty simple list and most of it was already thought of but not put on paper. I guess I was wrong.
I compromised on boxing the stuff up because honestly his inactions are telling me that it wont matter later because he is not really wanting to stick around long and can go back to it later after im gone.
I don't know if hat is a valid feeling but it is there. You guys see it because you have called him on it. That is where im getting that he is a renter. I could be wrong but actions speak louder than words.
One thing I've noticed is that there is often the real answer and the right answer.
The right answer is "I want to recover", but the real answer is what's deep down in the heart. What he is really feeling about recovery and this I think sometimes also affects progress.
That may sound to psychologist-ish, but I guess essentially I'm saying that I'd ask him if he is "really" interested in recovery or if he's just biding his time.
He stated that he wants to recover, but I am not sure we have asked DTL what he thinks that looks like.
CV
Good question, I've often asked him in the past if he really loved me or if it was just "convenient".
I thought it was always just my insecurity but I might be getting the vibes from somewhere. I just dont know.
Like I said, I've asked before and he always tells me that it is because he loves me but it has always just been the feeling.
Im wondering about the online courses but im already behind on my house and car so im afraid it will be like all the other programs and he will get 1/2 through and stop and I would be that much worst off.
We life a very simple life where 1000 pays for house and car for a month.
BTW, I gotta admit a little jealousy of you guys being able to live simply like this. It's what we are working towards.
Good question, I've often asked him in the past if he really loved me or if it was just "convenient".
I thought it was always just my insecurity but I might be getting the vibes from somewhere. I just dont know.
Like I said, I've asked before and he always tells me that it is because he loves me but it has always just been the feeling.
love is always followed by action.
Like in the Bible...
The "thing" (love), is always coupled with love, the action. Like in John where Jesus is asking Peter...
"are you loving me" (it is a present active verb)...
If so, "then feed.."
In other words, if you have love, you are "loving", if you are loving, then your love has actions. In Peter's case, Jesus is telling him If there is love there, then your loving will be seen in what you are doing. (sorry if I sound "preachey" here)
In other words, to put it into music terms (I like Boston)... Yes it is a feeling, but... "it's more than a feeling". It is also action.
See as I understand it, it has to be both. At least biblically. Feelings without substance are shallow and empty. Actions build substance because you invest in them (mentally, emotionally, physically). The real feelings of love come as a result of the actions, because they vest you in it, and I think this is the crux of the problem.
cv
Im wondering about the online courses but im already behind on my house and car so im afraid it will be like all the other programs and he will get 1/2 through and stop and I would be that much worst off.
We life a very simple life where 1000 pays for house and car for a month.
BTW, I gotta admit a little jealousy of you guys being able to live simply like this. It's what we are working towards.
Its not much of a choice as that is all we can afford. We live in North GA so the cost of living is not that much. So like someone in CA might look at 995.00 as "hey thats my car payment" or something like that. Here it is car and house together. The ratio is much higher. Makes 995 look like MUCH more money.
Im wondering about the online courses but im already behind on my house and car so im afraid it will be like all the other programs and he will get 1/2 through and stop and I would be that much worst off.
We life a very simple life where 1000 pays for house and car for a month.
I understand. We're in northern VA and the cost of living is sky high. Course having 3 teenagers isn't helping us either!
CV
BTW, I gotta admit a little jealousy of you guys being able to live simply like this. It's what we are working towards.
Its not much of a choice as that is all we can afford. We live in North GA so the cost of living is not that much. So like someone in CA might look at 995.00 as "hey thats my car payment" or something like that. Here it is car and house together. The ratio is much higher. Makes 995 look like MUCH more money.
Ok, I feel so bad. I'm shut down becuase my mother died in her sleep last night. David is doing everything he can to try to help me but I just have no feelings at all. I'm not sure if it is shock or my meds not letting me feel what I should but I'm just a zombie. He is trying so hard and I see it but I just cant feel it.
Mostly just blogging this. Not really sure if something can be done about it. Just cant explain it.
Ok, I feel so bad. I'm shut down becuase my mother died in her sleep last night. David is doing everything he can to try to help me but I just have no feelings at all. I'm not sure if it is shock or my meds not letting me feel what I should but I'm just a zombie. He is trying so hard and I see it but I just cant feel it.
Mostly just blogging this. Not really sure if something can be done about it. Just cant explain it.
You just received another devastating blow. Shock is normal. It's going to take time Luvs. Hey, you and DTL and your whole family are in our prayers, ok?
Death isn't normal. It hurts because it's *not* natural. It is a result of the fall. It is one of the reasons why we so eagerly await the redemption of these frail bodies.
CV
luvs
i am so sorry for your loss. you have had a tough year. let david take care of you now. my thoughts and prayers are with you.
unfortunately i know what you are feeling or not. i was the same way after my mom died for a bit. just a blank in zombie land. just complete shock. go easy on yourself.
hugs to you
Yea I think im going to boycott december next year. Anti-versaries, death, ect. Im done with this month. This is the month the A happened last year then all this going on this year.
I had said I wanted christmas to be special this year so I could replace last year with happy memories but fate was not going to let me have it.
Christmas in July anyone?
I'm so sorry, LD, for the loss of your mom! My prayers are with you and your family. It's hard at any time of the year but especially at Christmas and with everything else you have had to deal with.
Please take care of yourself. I don't blame you for thinking of Christmas in July.
Last night was the anti-versary of the night he lied to me where he was going and spent the night with her.
I took a sleeping pill hoping to get a good nights sleep but all it did was lock me in the nightmares all night long. today starts my week of Hel:.
I just hope I can get through it. With Momma gone and I'm putting on a face for my stepdad it is hard.
Last night was the anti-versary of the night he lied to me where he was going and spent the night with her.
I took a sleeping pill hoping to get a good nights sleep but all it did was lock me in the nightmares all night long. today starts my week of Hel:.
I just hope I can get through it. With Momma gone and I'm putting on a face for my stepdad it is hard.
Hang in there LD, You and DTL are in our prayers.
CV
Im trying but came down with a nasty flu christmas eve. Just now able to keep my fever below 100. David took the day off yesterday and took me to the doctor but they said it was viral but not showing up as the flu so tamaflu would not help. I've been hugging my teddy bear he got me for christmas when the stomach cramps hit and that helps.
PS. I will show david how to send them an email tonight. He may be doing it wrong.
Im trying but came down with a nasty flu christmas eve. Just now able to keep my fever below 100. David took the day off yesterday and took me to the doctor but they said it was viral but not showing up as the flu so tamaflu would not help. I've been hugging my teddy bear he got me for christmas when the stomach cramps hit and that helps.
PS. I will show david how to send them an email tonight. He may be doing it wrong.
ok , in the meantime, you rest, hug on that bear and let David take care of you.
((((luvs))))
just thinking about you. I hope you are feeling better. david seems to be helping you, you have to keep letting him.
ok- rest, feel better.
Thanks guys, the fever has stayed down all day so that is a start. Still cant eat anything without it making my stomach cramp up so liquid lunch (tea) for me again.
He is really taking care of me. I kinda feel bad becuase he pretty much did Christmas by himself since I was in bed most of the day. I got up to watch a few shows with him then would have to lay back down again.
He made the comment that I hugged the bears guts out. Lol. It has a heart that it is holding that says I love you and it was upside down this morning....ooops.
I'm glad you've had the bear! I'm sorry it has been so tough on you. Right now your job is to just get to feeling better...no feeling guilty!
Luvs,
how are you doing? Is recovery going well for you?
Hope you're feeling better.
CV
Thanks for asking CV.
Still feeling down but alot of aniti-versaries this week and my mothers death is finally setting in.
Im still not sure what your ideas were that you gave David. I've tried to stay out of it because I've learned if it is anything that he does not follow through on it is more of a LB than if he never asked for idea's at all.
Its like:
asking for help and idea's = 1 point
not following advice = -2 points.
He has been here for me and asking if there is anything he can do for me and helping with some sick puppies in the kennels to help take the stress off me. That has helped alot. We are missing out on a bunch of UA time since I've been sick. I've not felt like doing much of anything and my head is so stopped up that I get dizzy easy.
Thanks for asking CV.
Still feeling down but alot of aniti-versaries this week and my mothers death is finally setting in.
Im still not sure what your ideas were that you gave David. I've tried to stay out of it because I've learned if it is anything that he does not follow through on it is more of a LB than if he never asked for idea's at all.
Its like:
asking for help and idea's = 1 point
not following advice = -2 points.
He has been here for me and asking if there is anything he can do for me and helping with some sick puppies in the kennels to help take the stress off me. That has helped alot. We are missing out on a bunch of UA time since I've been sick. I've not felt like doing much of anything and my head is so stopped up that I get dizzy easy.
Hey Luvs,
I didn't put an easy task in front of him with my idea and I'm hoping he at least uses it for a spring board.
Oh you have *that* bug. My DD had it for 3 weeks! hang in there with the anti-versaries. This was kind of a harder holiday for me than I expected. Probably because I found out OM was in town for the holidays to see a few friends. Thankfully our town is kinda big and I didn't have to worry about bumping into him with the car (JOKE).
Yea, the OW is on the prowl again (posting on dating sites) so I've been on the lookout also.
Yea, the OW is on the prowl again (posting on dating sites) so I've been on the lookout also.
Kinda stinks doesn't it? It's like having to sleep with one eye open. It does get better. There was a period of about a year (1st year) in our recovery where I slept horribly, or not at all, the only time I actually slept peacefully was when her phone was in the kitchen and I was asleep on her lap. took about 2 years for the nightmares to end. But they do end.
I just got the 411 on his idea. It sounds pretty dang awesome.
Ok, I've already spoke to David about this but wanted to vent alittle.
You guys know that we dont have the money to do the online course and Popa Bear had asked him how he planned on getting the money to do it and he said we were saving up after we get the bills paid up.
Well the other day he got told of this "really good deal on a car trailer"..... Yes we use one maybe once in 3 months or so and we have several friends that have one that dont mind us using for a day.
He progresses to talk about selling his extra car, his left over RC stuff that is in boxes becuase they are a trigger making payments..... bunches of stuff to sell to find the money for that trailer we really dont need.
I told him how much that hurt me and he said he had never thought of it that way and he was sorry. Should make me feel better right? So why did that made me feel even worst? I guess I'm really wanting someone to think of me sometimes and show it.
He also said he felt "stalled out" and didnt know what else to do for me.... I told him I felt like he was stalled out becuase I've stoped kick starting things because of lack of follow through.
I'm scared to do the online course now even when we find the money becuase I think it would be the last straw when we got 1/2 through it and stopped again. I just could not take anouther letdown.
I guess I know what I'm dealing with now and have to make the most of what I have. I dont want divorce so that is my options now.
Ok, I've already spoke to David about this but wanted to vent alittle.
You guys know that we dont have the money to do the online course and Popa Bear had asked him how he planned on getting the money to do it and he said we were saving up after we get the bills paid up.
Well the other day he got told of this "really good deal on a car trailer"..... Yes we use one maybe once in 3 months or so and we have several friends that have one that dont mind us using for a day.
He progresses to talk about selling his extra car, his left over RC stuff that is in boxes becuase they are a trigger making payments..... bunches of stuff to sell to find the money for that trailer we really dont need.
I told him how much that hurt me and he said he had never thought of it that way and he was sorry. Should make me feel better right? So why did that made me feel even worst? I guess I'm really wanting someone to think of me sometimes and show it.
He also said he felt "stalled out" and didnt know what else to do for me.... I told him I felt like he was stalled out becuase I've stoped kick starting things because of lack of follow through.
I'm scared to do the online course now even when we find the money becuase I think it would be the last straw when we got 1/2 through it and stopped again. I just could not take anouther letdown.
I guess I know what I'm dealing with now and have to make the most of what I have. I dont want divorce so that is my options now.
You did right by telling him. That should've been a POJA. The hurt does linger. Remember that you are just getting over a pretty serious sounding flu-thing and dealing with your loss on top of recovery. Also remember that David's been trying pretty hard, right? He may be a little tired too. Don't kick, let us kick him (metaphorically speaking) for you.
CV
Not kicking. Even held it in for awhile to see if it was really enough to make a big deal over or not. I didnt explode when I felt like it I just waited untill I could tell him how it hurt me without DJ's. I think I did ok with how I said it. I just told him it hurt me to realize that he would go to that much trouble to find the money to buy the trailer but not for something I felt we needed for recovery.
Not kicking. Even held it in for awhile to see if it was really enough to make a big deal over or not. I didnt explode when I felt like it I just waited untill I could tell him how it hurt me without DJ's. I think I did ok with how I said it. I just told him it hurt me to realize that he would go to that much trouble to find the money to buy the trailer but not for something I felt we needed for recovery.
Sounds like you did the right thing, Luvs. We're really praying for you guys, I see a lot of hope for your recovery.
CV
just checking in. hows it going and how are you feeling?
Hey Dee, sorry I didnt respond earlier. This stuff is still sticking with me. Now it is a head cold. Sneezing and sniffling like crazy. I just cant shake it. I'm allergic to mold and it has been wet and rainy for a few weeks so I think that is part of it.
I'm still working on my kennels and trying to do as much as I can but dont feel like moving around much. David has the same thing but he is a person that does not let sick stop him. He is still going to work everyday and then trying to take care of me when he gets home. I'm afraid he is going to over do it and end up in the hospital.
Kennel is finally paying for itself so I can start getting caught up on some bills that have been on my back. That will take a load off me.
Hey Dee, sorry I didnt respond earlier. This stuff is still sticking with me. Now it is a head cold. Sneezing and sniffling like crazy. I just cant shake it. I'm allergic to mold and it has been wet and rainy for a few weeks so I think that is part of it.
I'm still working on my kennels and trying to do as much as I can but dont feel like moving around much. David has the same thing but he is a person that does not let sick stop him. He is still going to work everyday and then trying to take care of me when he gets home. I'm afraid he is going to over do it and end up in the hospital.
Kennel is finally paying for itself so I can start getting caught up on some bills that have been on my back. That will take a load off me.
LD,
RE: the cold... our DD had something similar..lasted about a month. Just and fyi.
RE David: With everything that's happening, I would encourage you to re-read what you wrote. It should be an encouragement for you that he is working this hard, even though he is not getting it all down perfectly yet.
CV
it last forever oh yeah then it comes back for round 2.
you have been under and extreme amount of stress in the last month alone, i thing david is wise to take care of you , you could end up in the hospital.
have you seen an MD?
would love to see puppie pictures!!! i have the cutest dog in the world (my world). I will post a pix but i have to figure that out.
so tell me what was the surpise from david???
i think once you get you energy back to normal you should do the online class. look at it as a gift to yourself, after such a crappy year! we are doing it. it keeps you on track and reminds you that you cannot slack. worth the investment if you can swing it.
so tell me what was the surpise from David? ???
No clue.
so tell me what was the surpise from David? ???
No clue.
I know! Be patient... It will take a little time. He will need a little time to get it together too.
CV
David, do not read !!!!!
Not really but if I vent, it will get worst so I'm just giving up.
I feel like I'm starting an old motorcycle that just wont fire. Keep on kicking away. You just cant help but ask yourself if you keep buying parts to fix it or just scrap it and start over.
David, do not read !!!!!
Ok, venting anyway. First off, I'm the one that set up the min golf after the bowling alley was full (yep me sugesting that one too) then I'm the one that had dinner ready when he got home tonight and after we ate I was the one that pulled the game out and put it in front of him.
My taker is in full force tonight and I cant even sleep because of it. He posts that he wants to do more things..... WELL PLAN THE DARN THINGS THEN. We have both filled out the RC lists.
I got snapped at pretty bad Sunday morning and it really hurt my feelings. It brought back memories of the times right before the A where he just didnt want to see I was meeting his needs so he could blame it on me.
I really appreciate what you are trying to do but Poppa Bear has already givin up becuase he never follows through. NONE OF YOU GUYS SHOULD HAVE TO STAY ON HIS BEHIND TO DO THESE THINGS FOR ME.
I'm betting he has not started on your thing.... He never seems to have enough time but they have time during the day to goto a 2 hour lunch at work almost every day. EXCEPT when he has something he WANTS to work on, like a car or somthing to weld on. Then he will take a short lunch and finish working on it while the other guys are at lunch. Just like we didnt have the money for the online course but he could come up with the money by selling the spare car for the "really good deal on a trailer" we didnt need.
OMG, I'm just really ready to scream my head off.
It is everything I can do not to fall back into just doing my own thing to make me happy again like I did before the A happened.
He told me Sat night that he "loved to hear me laugh it had been awhile" while we were at work Sat morning. His son and I were laughing because we could not hit the darn bucket with the water we were trying to pour in it and kept getting it all over ourselves. His son and I got into a bubble fight on Sunday (we are washing the 18wheeler trucks and trailers).
He complains about working so much but he was the one that told me he loved the job even though it was long hours and 6 days a week. Now he told me Sunday that he took the job so we didnt lose everything. I told him we would lose it all anyway if we dont have a marriage becuase neither of us can afford it alone.
David, do not read !!!!!
Ok, venting anyway. First off, I'm the one that set up the min golf after the bowling alley was full (yep me sugesting that one too) then I'm the one that had dinner ready when he got home tonight and after we ate I was the one that pulled the game out and put it in front of him.
My taker is in full force tonight and I cant even sleep because of it. He posts that he wants to do more things..... WELL PLAN THE DARN THINGS THEN. We have both filled out the RC lists.
I got snapped at pretty bad Sunday morning and it really hurt my feelings. It brought back memories of the times right before the A where he just didnt want to see I was meeting his needs so he could blame it on me.
I really appreciate what you are trying to do but Poppa Bear has already givin up becuase he never follows through. NONE OF YOU GUYS SHOULD HAVE TO STAY ON HIS BEHIND TO DO THESE THINGS FOR ME.
I'm betting he has not started on your thing.... He never seems to have enough time but they have time during the day to goto a 2 hour lunch at work almost every day. EXCEPT when he has something he WANTS to work on, like a car or somthing to weld on. Then he will take a short lunch and finish working on it while the other guys are at lunch. Just like we didnt have the money for the online course but he could come up with the money by selling the spare car for the "really good deal on a trailer" we didnt need.
OMG, I'm just really ready to scream my head off.
It is everything I can do not to fall back into just doing my own thing to make me happy again like I did before the A happened.
He told me Sat night that he "loved to hear me laugh it had been awhile" while we were at work Sat morning. His son and I were laughing because we could not hit the darn bucket with the water we were trying to pour in it and kept getting it all over ourselves. His son and I got into a bubble fight on Sunday (we are washing the 18wheeler trucks and trailers).
He complains about working so much but he was the one that told me he loved the job even though it was long hours and 6 days a week. Now he told me Sunday that he took the job so we didnt lose everything. I told him we would lose it all anyway if we dont have a marriage becuase neither of us can afford it alone.
LD, I suspected this was what was going on when I read his post. I'm not ready to bail on his thread yet, but I really need to think some on it today.
You both are in my prayers.
CV
luvs- thinking about you!!
We have some of the same problems, i am the planner. so it very frustrating i know!!!
I am the one who makes all the arrangements... blah blah blah.
i had to drag him thru the crap.... blah blah blah
get us back on track..... blah
i have done the i would love it you planned something.... and he does try and has had successes. but its not as often.
so any help on this one, we would be getting a 2 for one deal.
just letting you know that you are not alone.
BTW- i bet my H would have said exactly what DTL said.
and i know to some extent there is truth to it in my case.
I think some of it comes from doing everything for myself for so long and i am sure control and other issues.
The Policy Of Undivided Attention; I don't care if you've read it before, read it again...
link to POUAIt's pretty childish for either of you to complain about who comes up with the activities your going to do during your UA. Both of you should be sitting down once a week and planning out your UA schedule, otherwise the UA schedule doesn't happen! Flying by the seat of your pant's with UA time just turns to resentment in the end!
When you can't think of anything else to do, fill up the bath tub and go take a bath together, laugh about how hard it is to wash while your in there together. Then move to the bedroom, enjoy rubbing some baby oils, etc. on each other and make love.... UA time is critical!
RE-read the Link and follow Dr. H's road map!
...I'm the one that set up the min golf...I'm the one that had dinner ready...I was the one that pulled the game out...
POJA. You should be planning these together, including who is going to do what. If one of you doesn't follow through on the plan, then you implement some Negotiation to discover what it will take for the two of you to keep your commitments.
There are probably many reasons he's not doing what you expect him to do, so I won't speculate. But often it's not simple apathy; a simple "Honey, I'd love your help right now. Are you free for a few minutes?" will be enough to get an apathetic partner involved in the process.
After Rule #1 -- the Policy of Undivided Attention, spending a minimum of 15 hours meeting each other's
intimate emotional needs -- comes Rule #2: Never be the source of your spouse's unhappiness (read: no Love Busters).
Have you guys read through Love Busters together? What he has going on here is an Annoying Habit: agreeing and not following through. So you need to apply Negotiation to both sides of the equation:
1. Make sure he's actually enthusiastic about what he's agreed to do. Often, men will agree reluctantly then "forget" or "not have enough time". What this actually means is they aren't enthusiastic about the job in the first place! Often all that is required for enthusiasm is for a spouse to come take them by the hand, say "let's do this and then do something fun together afterward" or "let's make this fun together" to get involved. Speaking from experience here as the reluctant, oft-forgetful husband.
2. If he truly is enthusiastic about it, what would be necessary to be sure he follows through? Reward systems work well. I hate mowing the lawn, but my wife and I have worked out some reward systems that help me look forward to mowing the lawn more. Same for her with some onerous chores; we decide how we'll reward ourselves for doing the things we don't want to do, and that really helps us get it done. And in some cases, we hire out.
He posts that he wants to do more things..... WELL PLAN THE DARN THINGS THEN. We have both filled out the RC lists.
Men take training. You two should plan these together to start with, at the frequency you both can agree on. Then transition the duty. As a for-instance, if my wife and I are going to do lunch during the week, that plan is always up to me. I know this, and schedule one or two lunches a week together. Our weekend date is planned together. And our shopping dates are planned by my wife. Each to his area of expertise, but it took us a while to work out that responsibility domain, you know?
I got snapped at pretty bad Sunday morning and it really hurt my feelings.
Inform him that you were hurt due to his angry outburst, and you'd like to brainstorm ideas together how to avoid the situation that resulted in the snap. If you feel Love Busted, you were; don't allow anybody to tell you you are "too sensitive". You both need to learn how to not make each other miserable!
NONE OF YOU GUYS SHOULD HAVE TO STAY ON HIS BEHIND TO DO THESE THINGS FOR ME.
Nope. You and he should be sitting down every Sunday night and scheduling what your activities are going to be and who is going to do what. Then set alarms on your phones or watches, grab each other at the appointed times, and get your habits going in the right directions.
...like we didnt have the money for the online course but he could come up with the money by selling the spare car for the "really good deal on a trailer" we didnt need.
That's called Independent Behavior and is another Love Buster. You guys haven't worked through Love Busters yet, have you?
It really sounds like if the two of you could learn to control your Love Busters you'd have an amazing relationship. But you keep doing -- or agreeing to do and not doing -- things that make one another miserable.
David, do not read !!!!!
Ok, venting anyway. First off, I'm the one that set up the min golf after the bowling alley was full (yep me sugesting that one too) then I'm the one that had dinner ready when he got home tonight and after we ate I was the one that pulled the game out and put it in front of him.
My taker is in full force tonight and I cant even sleep because of it. He posts that he wants to do more things..... WELL PLAN THE DARN THINGS THEN. We have both filled out the RC lists.
Looks like others are posting some good stuff here. And giving some loving 2x4's as well. I will just give an example that we struggle with from time to time (ok, **I** struggle with):
There is one particular thing that we are working at over and over again. We are both enthusiastic about doing this thing together, but it is always planned sporadically and those darned kids always seem to interfere with our plans! W knows it is soooo important to me, and wants to do it as well, but fears failing at it. My take is "so what if we fail at it, we try and try again until we get there". Her fear often causes inaction though. And then I complain. It's been the cycle. An unhealthy one.
Here's the truth of it though: BH or BW, the burden almost always rests on us to do the heavy lifting on many many things. I believe it is the way of recovery. Why? Because somewhere down the road the WS got it in their mind that they are entitled to not work on the relationship and the habits/patterns developed have been one of inaction towards us. We have top teach the FWS how to do these things again, and we need to relearn how to not enable them to continue in the cycle of take take take.
The POJA helps break that. It's needed to relearn these habits (the healthy ones).
CV
...I'm the one that set up the min golf...I'm the one that had dinner ready...I was the one that pulled the game out...
POJA. You should be planning these together, including who is going to do what. If one of you doesn't follow through on the plan, then you implement some Negotiation to discover what it will take for the two of you to keep your commitments.
There are probably many reasons he's not doing what you expect him to do, so I won't speculate. But often it's not simple apathy; a simple "Honey, I'd love your help right now. Are you free for a few minutes?" will be enough to get an apathetic partner involved in the process.
After Rule #1 -- the Policy of Undivided Attention, spending a minimum of 15 hours meeting each other's
intimate emotional needs -- comes Rule #2: Never be the source of your spouse's unhappiness (read: no Love Busters).
Have you guys read through Love Busters together? What he has going on here is an Annoying Habit: agreeing and not following through. So you need to apply Negotiation to both sides of the equation:
1. Make sure he's actually enthusiastic about what he's agreed to do. Often, men will agree reluctantly then "forget" or "not have enough time". What this actually means is they aren't enthusiastic about the job in the first place! Often all that is required for enthusiasm is for a spouse to come take them by the hand, say "let's do this and then do something fun together afterward" or "let's make this fun together" to get involved. Speaking from experience here as the reluctant, oft-forgetful husband.
2. If he truly is enthusiastic about it, what would be necessary to be sure he follows through? Reward systems work well. I hate mowing the lawn, but my wife and I have worked out some reward systems that help me look forward to mowing the lawn more. Same for her with some onerous chores; we decide how we'll reward ourselves for doing the things we don't want to do, and that really helps us get it done. And in some cases, we hire out.
He posts that he wants to do more things..... WELL PLAN THE DARN THINGS THEN. We have both filled out the RC lists.
Men take training. You two should plan these together to start with, at the frequency you both can agree on. Then transition the duty. As a for-instance, if my wife and I are going to do lunch during the week, that plan is always up to me. I know this, and schedule one or two lunches a week together. Our weekend date is planned together. And our shopping dates are planned by my wife. Each to his area of expertise, but it took us a while to work out that responsibility domain, you know?
I got snapped at pretty bad Sunday morning and it really hurt my feelings.
Inform him that you were hurt due to his angry outburst, and you'd like to brainstorm ideas together how to avoid the situation that resulted in the snap. If you feel Love Busted, you were; don't allow anybody to tell you you are "too sensitive". You both need to learn how to not make each other miserable!
NONE OF YOU GUYS SHOULD HAVE TO STAY ON HIS BEHIND TO DO THESE THINGS FOR ME.
Nope. You and he should be sitting down every Sunday night and scheduling what your activities are going to be and who is going to do what. Then set alarms on your phones or watches, grab each other at the appointed times, and get your habits going in the right directions.
...like we didnt have the money for the online course but he could come up with the money by selling the spare car for the "really good deal on a trailer" we didnt need.
That's called Independent Behavior and is another Love Buster. You guys haven't worked through Love Busters yet, have you?
It really sounds like if the two of you could learn to control your Love Busters you'd have an amazing relationship. But you keep doing -- or agreeing to do and not doing -- things that make one another miserable.
Wow ! Thank you so much for this, after reading this we went back and talked about it. When we read Lover Busters we could not think of a single thing that would have been applicable but now that you point these things out as what they are, we can see where we are LB almost daily to each other. Its funny how things sometimes need someone on the outside to knock it into our heads.
We are going to start reading it again and after each chapter we need to take a few days and "look" for the one we read about in our daily life and talk about each one. I think this is the one BIG thing the online course would help us with.
When we read Lover Busters we could not think of a single thing that would have been applicable but now that you point these things out as what they are, we can see where we are LB almost daily to each other.
For my wife and me, the start of our radical transformation was honestly working through the exercises at the end of each chapter together, reading the questions aloud and exploring them.
Demands and disrespect are really tough ones. It's incredibly easy to fall into a demand, and incredibly easy to be disrespectful unintentionally.
For instance, one of my wife's recent complaints -- complaints are good, criticism is not! -- is that I was judging her when she talked about her religious activities. (She's very religious; I am not at all religious.)
Now, that's a valid complaint, but nestled inside of it is a disrespectful judgment: making a claim about my state of mind, or "telling me what I think". I'm very used to her religious activities, and felt that I wasn't offering any judgments. In fact, I recalled the conversations and knew I'd offered no comments that judged her religion in any way.
This went back-and-forth a bit until we figured out a different way of approaching it that involved no disrespect. I ultimately came up with the right question: "What am I doing when you talk about your religious activities that causes you to feel I'm being disrespectful about your religion?"
Then we were able to nail it down: I'd roll my eyes, or offer a comment that sounded sarcastic, or not pay full attention. To that last bit, at first she said "you act bored", but that was too vague for me to work with. And again, it was disrespectful because "bored" is a state of MY mind, and the heart of disrespect is telling other people what they think!
So we came up with a plan to fix it. Turns out I had an annoying habit of not paying full attention when she discussed religious matters, and that's one of the Enemies of Good Conversation. So I had to become a better conversationalist about religion, including showing interest, exploring the topic, etc. It doesn't mean I'm a believer by any means, but now I know how to talk about it in a positive fashion without exhibiting body language or tone of voice that implies disrespect.
And as far as fixing her side of the road, she learned from that experience to not make assumptions about my state of mind. She's learned to isolate the ACTIONS in which I engage that cause her to feel badly, and focus on that when talking about what should change. And the same for me; we do much better to avoid language that implies a problem with someone's state of mind, and instead focus on specific actions that cause us to lose Love Units.
Chasing down those things that each of you are doing to cause unhappiness is worth the difficulty of the exercise. You may have fixed the major Love Busters in your relationship, but the small ones are worth patching up so that your Love Bank can stay full!
Well guys, I'm done with MB. Sorry but its just not working. I just cant get to a point that I feel safe and until that happens I cant let him in.
When I snoop, I find IB's that I didnt know about and when I ask about them I get half truths and lies.
For example: There was this girl that used to call him daily (sometimes multiple times) about questions on her car. I told him I didnt like it becuase she depended on him too much and he got a kick out of it. Anyway, I was snooping the other day and found out he had a car in the garage for a side job..... he never told me about it so I asked..... It took me asking 3 different ways to have him finally say it was her husbands car. I dont even know if that was the truth or it was hers since he didnt want to answer the question. This makes me think the following.
How many times has he had side jobs and not told me?
What is he doing with the extra money?
How many times has he left the shop and not told me?
Who shows up at the shop and I dont know?
Witholding one thing makes me think he is witholding a whole nother life. I cant feel safe so I cant allow him to deposit anything in my LB.
Thank you everyone that has tried and failed on my behalf.
CV, never got that special thing either. Nice try.
I am very sorry to hear that, LuvsDavid. I agree that you cannot put up with this level of independent behavior and dishonesty, as it will drive you crazy! Of course you cannot become vulnerable to a person who acts like this, and so he will never be able to make love bank deposits as long as he continues to be dishonest and independent.
Well guys, I'm done with MB. Sorry but its just not working. I just cant get to a point that I feel safe and until that happens I cant let him in.
When I snoop, I find IB's that I didnt know about and when I ask about them I get half truths and lies.
For example: There was this girl that used to call him daily (sometimes multiple times) about questions on her car. I told him I didnt like it becuase she depended on him too much and he got a kick out of it. Anyway, I was snooping the other day and found out he had a car in the garage for a side job..... he never told me about it so I asked..... It took me asking 3 different ways to have him finally say it was her husbands car. I dont even know if that was the truth or it was hers since he didnt want to answer the question. This makes me think the following.
How many times has he had side jobs and not told me?
What is he doing with the extra money?
How many times has he left the shop and not told me?
Who shows up at the shop and I dont know?
Witholding one thing makes me think he is witholding a whole nother life. I cant feel safe so I cant allow him to deposit anything in my LB.
Thank you everyone that has tried and failed on my behalf.
CV, never got that special thing either. Nice try.
Luvs,
Like Markos, I am sorry too. I was really hoping he'd come through on at least that one thing we talked about. If he is constantly breaking trust, you do need to protect yourself. Please remember, MB works, even if your marriage doesn't. He has a very short learning curve and is going to have to get it together ASAP before any progress can be made. The question is whether or not he's got what it takes. and of course whether he has another shot. That's your call though. Don't bail on the program because David isn't working. there are other aspects that can help you along in your healing.
CV
See its not just the marriage I would be giving up on. That IS the most important thing but we have started my dream here. I've always wanted to work with animal rescue so we built a kennel here at the house. I board shelter dogs on donations untill they can get moved to the rescues. Originally it was supposed to allow us both to leave our jobs and work from home but david went back to work before we lost the house.
If I leave, I leave that dream behind also. When you say he took my life away you are explaining it 100%. On a scale of 1-10 my LB balance is about a 2 because of all the hits it has taken. I still love him and want it to work but I can't MAKE it work for him. This is truly the lowest point in my life right now but I've learned I can make it. I will get through this I just don't know who I will be on the other side.
Well guys, I'm done with MB. Sorry but its just not working. I just cant get to a point that I feel safe and until that happens I cant let him in.
When I snoop, I find IB's that I didnt know about and when I ask about them I get half truths and lies.
For example: There was this girl that used to call him daily (sometimes multiple times) about questions on her car. I told him I didnt like it becuase she depended on him too much and he got a kick out of it. Anyway, I was snooping the other day and found out he had a car in the garage for a side job..... he never told me about it so I asked..... It took me asking 3 different ways to have him finally say it was her husbands car. I dont even know if that was the truth or it was hers since he didnt want to answer the question. This makes me think the following.
How many times has he had side jobs and not told me?
What is he doing with the extra money?
How many times has he left the shop and not told me?
Who shows up at the shop and I dont know?
Witholding one thing makes me think he is witholding a whole nother life. I cant feel safe so I cant allow him to deposit anything in my LB.
Thank you everyone that has tried and failed on my behalf.
CV, never got that special thing either. Nice try.
You aren't going to like this, but...
1) If MB isn't working for your, it's because you aren't working MB.
2) What are you doing to make Openness and Honesty safe? Yes, I know - "He should just BE honest!" That's what people think, that's what people say. Folks right here will get in and "You go girl" about dishonesty, and conveniently forget that this is
Marriage Builders, not Disrespectful Judgement and Demand Builders.
What does Dr. Harley say about overcoming dishonesty?
The way to help an "avoid trouble" liar learn to be truthful is to focus attention on honesty and ignore everything else for a while. I encourage such people to tell the truth in return for their spouses not telling them what to do. In other words, minimize the consequences of the acts that they are afraid will get them into trouble. Instead of trying to punish your wife for going back on her promises, I would put more emphasis on safe and pleasant negotiation, where she is free to explain what she wants to do, and give you a chance to offer alternatives that are genuinely attractive to her.
What happens now is that she feels she is "made" to agree with you. You have told her that unless she does this or that, you will leave her. Even in the beginning, you explained that unless she stopped smoking, you would not even date her. She has learned to agree with anything and then do what she pleases to avoid a fight or being abandoned. But what if there were no fight? What if you wouldn't leave her? I recommend that you try to stop fighting with her, and you stop threatening to leave her. When she tells you she smokes, tell her you would appreciate it if she didn't, and offer her incentives to stop. But I wouldn't use threats.
Look at
your response to dishonesty here; you throw your hands up and say "That's it! I quit!"
So here is my question for you; do you
actually think that is the type of behavior
from you that is going to inspire honesty
from him?
It's not.
Honesty with you should be safe and rewarding. If you have to drag the truth out of him, hitting the roof and threatening divorce is NOT going to promote honesty. It's going to promote dishonesty.
Why? Because the association is this; the truth = you freaking out.
Even though the truth many be; discovering lies = you freaking out.
In fact; (anything = you freaking out) = avoid whatever makes you freak out - no matter how it's misunderstood.
You CAN maintain boundaries within a marriage without threats of divorce or separations, and you can promote honesty without hellfire and brimstone about dishonesty.
You need to build NEW habits.
You ain't done it yet.
MB ain't workin, cause
you ain't workin it.
Well guys, I'm done with MB. Sorry but its just not working. I just cant get to a point that I feel safe and until that happens I cant let him in.
When I snoop, I find IB's that I didnt know about and when I ask about them I get half truths and lies.
For example: There was this girl that used to call him daily (sometimes multiple times) about questions on her car. I told him I didnt like it becuase she depended on him too much and he got a kick out of it. Anyway, I was snooping the other day and found out he had a car in the garage for a side job..... he never told me about it so I asked..... It took me asking 3 different ways to have him finally say it was her husbands car. I dont even know if that was the truth or it was hers since he didnt want to answer the question. This makes me think the following.
How many times has he had side jobs and not told me?
What is he doing with the extra money?
How many times has he left the shop and not told me?
Who shows up at the shop and I dont know?
Witholding one thing makes me think he is witholding a whole nother life. I cant feel safe so I cant allow him to deposit anything in my LB.
Thank you everyone that has tried and failed on my behalf.
CV, never got that special thing either. Nice try.
You aren't going to like this, but...
1) If MB isn't working for your, it's because you aren't working MB.
2) What are you doing to make Openness and Honesty safe? Yes, I know - "He should just BE honest!" That's what people think, that's what people say. Folks right here will get in and "You go girl" about dishonesty, and conveniently forget that this is
Marriage Builders, not Disrespectful Judgement and Demand Builders.
What does Dr. Harley say about overcoming dishonesty?
The way to help an "avoid trouble" liar learn to be truthful is to focus attention on honesty and ignore everything else for a while. I encourage such people to tell the truth in return for their spouses not telling them what to do. In other words, minimize the consequences of the acts that they are afraid will get them into trouble. Instead of trying to punish your wife for going back on her promises, I would put more emphasis on safe and pleasant negotiation, where she is free to explain what she wants to do, and give you a chance to offer alternatives that are genuinely attractive to her.
What happens now is that she feels she is "made" to agree with you. You have told her that unless she does this or that, you will leave her. Even in the beginning, you explained that unless she stopped smoking, you would not even date her. She has learned to agree with anything and then do what she pleases to avoid a fight or being abandoned. But what if there were no fight? What if you wouldn't leave her? I recommend that you try to stop fighting with her, and you stop threatening to leave her. When she tells you she smokes, tell her you would appreciate it if she didn't, and offer her incentives to stop. But I wouldn't use threats.
Look at
your response to dishonesty here; you throw your hands up and say "That's it! I quit!"
So here is my question for you; do you
actually think that is the type of behavior
from you that is going to inspire honesty
from him?
It's not.
Honesty with you should be safe and rewarding. If you have to drag the truth out of him, hitting the roof and threatening divorce is NOT going to promote honesty. It's going to promote dishonesty.
Why? Because the association is this; the truth = you freaking out.
Even though the truth many be; discovering lies = you freaking out.
In fact; (anything = you freaking out) = avoid whatever makes you freak out - no matter how it's misunderstood.
You CAN maintain boundaries within a marriage without threats of divorce or separations, and you can promote honesty without hellfire and brimstone about dishonesty.
You need to build NEW habits.
You ain't done it yet.
MB ain't workin, cause
you ain't workin it.
I got upset because he didnt tell me..... Not becuase he told me and I didnt like it. There is a BIG differance there. He made a bad choice in taking the job, yes, BUT if he had told me about it instead of me finding out, I would not have freaked out.
Are you trying to say he can do anything he wants even if it is an EP and never have to tell me about it even if I ask? If that is what MB is about then NO, I ain't working it and never will.
Its not the truth that gets me upset, its the having to drag it out. Lying by ommision is the problem I have with this. I cant feel safe if every time I snoop, I find more independent behavior. Examples: not being where he says, not doing what he says he is.
And I have decided to quit becuase I have no follow though from him. NONE! Neither I nore Dr.Harley can make my husband want to follow through. He has to decide that on himself.
Well guys, I'm done with MB. Sorry but its just not working. I just cant get to a point that I feel safe and until that happens I cant let him in.
When I snoop, I find IB's that I didnt know about and when I ask about them I get half truths and lies.
For example: There was this girl that used to call him daily (sometimes multiple times) about questions on her car. I told him I didnt like it becuase she depended on him too much and he got a kick out of it. Anyway, I was snooping the other day and found out he had a car in the garage for a side job..... he never told me about it so I asked..... It took me asking 3 different ways to have him finally say it was her husbands car. I dont even know if that was the truth or it was hers since he didnt want to answer the question. This makes me think the following.
How many times has he had side jobs and not told me?
What is he doing with the extra money?
How many times has he left the shop and not told me?
Who shows up at the shop and I dont know?
Witholding one thing makes me think he is witholding a whole nother life. I cant feel safe so I cant allow him to deposit anything in my LB.
Thank you everyone that has tried and failed on my behalf.
CV, never got that special thing either. Nice try.
You aren't going to like this, but...
1) If MB isn't working for your, it's because you aren't working MB.
2) What are you doing to make Openness and Honesty safe? Yes, I know - "He should just BE honest!" That's what people think, that's what people say. Folks right here will get in and "You go girl" about dishonesty, and conveniently forget that this is
Marriage Builders, not Disrespectful Judgement and Demand Builders.
What does Dr. Harley say about overcoming dishonesty?
The way to help an "avoid trouble" liar learn to be truthful is to focus attention on honesty and ignore everything else for a while. I encourage such people to tell the truth in return for their spouses not telling them what to do. In other words, minimize the consequences of the acts that they are afraid will get them into trouble. Instead of trying to punish your wife for going back on her promises, I would put more emphasis on safe and pleasant negotiation, where she is free to explain what she wants to do, and give you a chance to offer alternatives that are genuinely attractive to her.
What happens now is that she feels she is "made" to agree with you. You have told her that unless she does this or that, you will leave her. Even in the beginning, you explained that unless she stopped smoking, you would not even date her. She has learned to agree with anything and then do what she pleases to avoid a fight or being abandoned. But what if there were no fight? What if you wouldn't leave her? I recommend that you try to stop fighting with her, and you stop threatening to leave her. When she tells you she smokes, tell her you would appreciate it if she didn't, and offer her incentives to stop. But I wouldn't use threats.
Look at
your response to dishonesty here; you throw your hands up and say "That's it! I quit!"
So here is my question for you; do you
actually think that is the type of behavior
from you that is going to inspire honesty
from him?
It's not.
Honesty with you should be safe and rewarding. If you have to drag the truth out of him, hitting the roof and threatening divorce is NOT going to promote honesty. It's going to promote dishonesty.
Why? Because the association is this; the truth = you freaking out.
Even though the truth many be; discovering lies = you freaking out.
In fact; (anything = you freaking out) = avoid whatever makes you freak out - no matter how it's misunderstood.
You CAN maintain boundaries within a marriage without threats of divorce or separations, and you can promote honesty without hellfire and brimstone about dishonesty.
You need to build NEW habits.
You ain't done it yet.
MB ain't workin, cause
you ain't workin it.
I got upset because he didnt tell me..... Not becuase he told me and I didnt like it. There is a BIG differance there. He made a bad choice in taking the job, yes, BUT if he had told me about it instead of me finding out, I would not have freaked out.
Are you trying to say he can do anything he wants even if it is an EP and never have to tell me about it even if I ask? If that is what MB is about then NO, I ain't working it and never will.
Its not the truth that gets me upset, its the having to drag it out. Lying by ommision is the problem I have with this. I cant feel safe if every time I snoop, I find more independent behavior. Examples: not being where he says, not doing what he says he is.
And I have decided to quit becuase I have no follow though from him. NONE! Neither I nore Dr.Harley can make my husband want to follow through. He has to decide that on himself.
Actually, MB via Dr. Harley provides a guide to create new habits in Marriage. It provides paths to make change more desirable - as the above article that I linked to you lays out.
It's the same thing in creating other habits.
Beyond that, you didn't really read a word I wrote, did you?
You scanned it, decided that since I'm not patting you on the back and aiding you in demonizing your husband for lying, that I'm not worth listening to.
Let me repeat;
The truth of the issue is that you are freaking out because you discovered lies.
To
him, it appears if you are freaking out because you discovered the truth.
In other words, you discover a lie and freak out, and the association is made that truth = you freaking out.
Why? Because you freak out and threaten divorce when you discover the lie.
Read the quote, read the ARTICLE, and tell me that it isn't EXACTLY what you are doing RIGHT NOW.
Tell me that. Tell the whole board honestly that you aren't using secondary gain to issue a threat, rather than doing anything to promote honesty.
I was betrayed on 1/26/2010, the day before my wife's birthday. Not too far out here, and I simply cannot see justification for this kind of behavior towards a spouse.
You want your husband to be honest?
Then QUIT freaking out and threatening to leave him, and start REWARDING honesty.
Honesty is NOT a given, it's not a right, it's not an entitlement. We toss it around as a virtue or mark of a good person not because it serves that person, but because deceit infuriates
us. DEMANDING honesty is a selfish act.
You want honesty? Make yourself safe to be honest with.
See its not just the marriage I would be giving up on. That IS the most important thing but we have started my dream here. I've always wanted to work with animal rescue so we built a kennel here at the house. I board shelter dogs on donations untill they can get moved to the rescues. Originally it was supposed to allow us both to leave our jobs and work from home but david went back to work before we lost the house.
If I leave, I leave that dream behind also. When you say he took my life away you are explaining it 100%. On a scale of 1-10 my LB balance is about a 2 because of all the hits it has taken. I still love him and want it to work but I can't MAKE it work for him. This is truly the lowest point in my life right now but I've learned I can make it. I will get through this I just don't know who I will be on the other side.
Luvs,
I think no matter which route you end up going, you are still going to be LuvsDavid. I kinda equate it to a horrible car accident. There's all sorts of injuries internal and external. Because of the severity of it, we are going to carry the scars for life. But here's the thing... You will still be you. The essence of LD will be essentially the same, though you will be carrying those scars. One of the most distressing things to me after Dday was the realization that not only did my wife sin against me in a gross and horrendous way, but that what she did was affect my ability to be a pastor in our denomination. It's still up for grabs for me. I should have graduated in 08, now I'm looking at next year. Whether I pursue ministry or not won't affect the essence of CV though. I'll still be me... a bit more scarred, but still me.
This may not be the right time to be telling you this, so if it's not, just sit on it a while... In the meantime:
I can't help but think its more a renters mentality than a "wayward" now. I don't really think he will stray again but we will live just like we did before with the bare minimum to keep us both in the marriage.
In my snooping I saw what you suggested he do and it would have been so easy for him to do. I would have loved it. But I guess I was not worth the time it would have taken.
I WANT to lose 40 more pounds BUT not enough to put forth the effort required at the gym for example.
I have so much more in meto give but want to have it in return. I guess I've turned into a renter too.
I can't help but think its more a renters mentality than a "wayward" now. I don't really think he will stray again but we will live just like we did before with the bare minimum to keep us both in the marriage.
In my snooping I saw what you suggested he do and it would have been so easy for him to do. I would have loved it. But I guess I was not worth the time it would have taken.
I WANT to lose 40 more pounds BUT not enough to put forth the effort required at the gym for example.
I have so much more in meto give but want to have it in return. I guess I've turned into a renter too.
LD,
Have you both read renters and buyers article yet? Sounds like you have. I'd suggest you both read it together, talk about whether or not you are happy in a relationship with 2 renters. As far as losing the weight, do it for yourself. It will make you feel better for yourself and your mind will be healthier for the effort.
I'm sorry the sketch didn't work out. Don't you think you aren't worth it though. You are.
What are some things you guys can do to improve communications between you? Both in the initiating and listening/responding modes?
Dee asked for an update so here it goes.
It's not a good one. We could be the poster child for how to not recover but still have the crippled version of the pre-A marriage.
I take responiblity for it as much as him but we are not working the program. I'm in withdrawal 90% of the time. Sometimes I want to say that I wished I never found the site because I would not know what we "could" have.
Do we have a better Marriage than before the A?----- YES hard not to be.
Do we have better than ever?---- NO
We both admit we are lazy and just getting by.
What is strange is I'm over the A. What I'm not over with is the things he said to me after discovery. I cant get them out of my head. I can still see it like I was watching a TV show of us.
Walking through Walmart and going past the prepaid phones and saying "dont even think about getting one of those to talk to her on" He later told me he "WANTED TO LAUGH AT ME BECAUSE THEY ALREADY HAD ONE"
How he told me "Condoms are cheaper to buy in singles than in packs"
Remembering how he told me he was looking for a radiator for a friend on craigslist (her car)
We are leaving Saturday for a few days away camping on the beach in FL and doing some sea Kayaking. We are hoping it will kick start the attachment again as we are feeling very far apart even in the same room right now.
I still read here but only post on how to snoop and what to watch for from experiance because I dont have any advice on how to recover.
(((luvs))) i am sorry you are in this state.
did you ever sign up for the online course? i think the real kick that we needed was talking with Steve, even a few times is worth it.
i hope your mini vacation will help you draw closer together and you can come up with a plan that you both can be excited about. you both admit you are lazy and just getting by, at least you agree, now just agree on how you will change that. Every time we hit a rut, it was suggested we take a trip and it does work
i hope the storms are gone by the time you go, H and i are supposed to be traveling just as it hits NY. Needless to say i am a bit unnerved by the uncertainty of the trip and the storm.