Well after reading so many similar posts I thought I would put up my story just to get a few opinions.These forums have been a life saver for me so far.

My wife and I have been together for 15 years and have 2 beautiful boys aged 4 and 7 who we both absolutely adore. It happened the 2nd of August this year when I found out my wife had cheated on me.

She had ventured down the path of the past and had discovered a long lost friend on Facebook from some 25 years ago. She made contact with him and had been open and honest with me about her contact. She had arranged to catch with him to talk about the old days and of course I was more than happy and wished her a good day, I mean they were just going to have lunch. She told me about the day and what a good time she had. I didn't think anything of it at all.

Our relationship I believed was strong, we had common goals, built a beautiful home for our children and work hard. We had no financial problems, great group of friends and enjoyed a laid back lifestyle. We had however had our fair share of hard times. My wife had lost both her parents through cancers and was abused for years by her father. Me on the hand have had a kidney transplant (10 yrs ago) and had suffered on and off through depression and anxiety. This periods were hard for my wife and she was never really able to cope with this and the ups and downs that came.

Well back to her meeting the other guy. One day she was sitting on the lounge and was crying. I approached her, cuddled her and asked what was wrong. She told me the guy from her past "had been hurt in the past as he loved her so much and that his life hadn't been the same since they were together". At this stage I was very angry, not with her but how dare a man make somebody feel that bad after so many years.

From here she began to see him, it started as friends, then came the emotional attachment and the affair.
When I found out (i just sensed it and confronted her) I was overwhelmed with every emotion known to man. I acted badly, yelled, screamed, cried, begged and fell apart.
I moved to a apartment not far from the family home to get some breathing space and of course the affair got bigger. I never for one second ever let my family down and have always had my boys 50% of the time. This means that i actually see my wife every 2nd day.

To this day she hasn't shown any true remorse and has walked away into his arms and not looked back. I slowly rebuilt over the next 3 months and obviously always tried to talk to her, sometimes 3 steps forward 6 steps back.The only hint about the way she thinks is that she said "she never wants to live a life with regrets"

The affair partner would not ever come to the family home as I confronted him there once and he vowed to never come near the place. Only last month she moved out to a rental (only up the street) and this has allowed him to become a little closer. He however works away and is only there 2 days a week. I have been happier as I have moved back into the family home, but sometimes struggle with memories of her.

I have thought long and hard about what she has done to this family and why after 5 months I still feel the same about her. My hurt and pain has died down to degree and I'm trying to make more rational decisions about the future.

For the past 2 weeks I decided not to confront her relationship with him. We became a little closer and things felt like the good old days, we laughed, smiled, and she even help out a little around the family home. I unfortunately cracked when Christmas was mentioned and the pain came rushing back. We are now back to square one and distant again.

The affair partner is extremely controlling and has basically told her if she has anything to do with me then it will be over between them. He doesn't want us to be friends in any shape or form but i don't see how this is possible with young kids. She however is listening to his every word and says she is madly in love with him. (and ouch that hurts so much to hear)She at this moment would chose him over me completely.

When we spent time recently together I still feel a strong connection (not sure about her) and can see so much potential to put the wrong right. I am in this for the long haul, I believe in marriage and took my vows seriously. It is just so sad to throw 15 years away without even a discussion on what went wrong. I wont even date again till after I am divorced. At this stage she doesn't believe in any councilling or sees any future in us.

My thoughts are away
1) Tough love - withdraw and take me out of the equation or
2) Slowly bring her closer as a friend, wait patiently for the affair to end (which it may not) and go from there.
At the same time I am focusing on me to take back some control but getting my emotions under control is very hard.

Thanks for any suggestions

Wes

Have you moved back into your family home? Who is supporting your wife?

What�s the situation with your kids? You get them 50/50?

What have you done to expose the affair? Have you told your family? Hers? Does OM have a wife?

Here are a few solid steps you will be told by everyone to do:

1. Expose the affair to everyone. Family, friends, and anyone who can put pressure on the affair.
2. You�re in a battle with an alien that has taken control of your wife�s body. You�re not in battle with your wife. There is a BIG difference. She�s not your wife right now and you can�t treat her as such.
3. You have to do things that will feel wrong, but are the right things to do to end the affair. Exposure is a good example.
4. Get a lawyer and prepare to file for abandonment, child support, and spousal support. This doesn�t mean you�re getting divorced.
5. Sue the other man for alienation of affection, if your state has that law.
6. Hardball is the only way to deal with a WW. There is no middle ground. Being her friend and hoping the affair will end is a recipe to let her stay in the affair indefinitely.
7. Plan A is hard to do when she�s out of the house. It may be time for Plan B.
8. Make a phone appointment with the Harleys. They are cheaper than lawyers and are well worth the money.
9. Get the book, �Surviving an Affair�.

This list should give you a good start.

I have moved back into the family home and now am paying child maintenance every month for my children. This kids still see this as a home and I am far happier at home. She works as a hairdresser and makes good cash money. In Australia she now gets Family Assistance, Maintenance (from me), and Rent Assistance so she is in no financial hardship (quite the opposite)

Are you court ordered to pay maintenance? Is there a legal separation in place?

I just re-read and found out that you made a big mistake. Move back into your home ASAP. You can�t fight the affair effectively otherwise. If she wants out of the marriage SHE can move out.

Part of the beginning of the affair fight is that you go home and basically reclaim your marriage. You go home, unannounced, and move back in. She�ll confront, and you simply say, �This is my home. This is my marriage. You�re my wife and these are my kids. I�m not going anywhere and leaving was a big mistake.�

If she says that she needs space, you tell her to go to the mall and walk around if she needs to. You�re staying and aren�t going anywhere. Then go and pee in the corner. (I�m kidding)

If you want your marriage back, you must be assertive, act like a man, cool under pressure, and block your emotions. You�re a military man on a mission. You�re Mr. Spock, James Bond, and Bruce Lee all rolled into one. You�re cool, calm, and a man of action.

Do this TODAY!

helpforlostdads, he did move back, but she moved out.

The affair has been exposed to everybody, so many people have been hurt. She now does not see it as a affair, rather our marriage is over and she is in a relationship.

I agree a little about the push forward strategy. If i ring the affair partner he gets angry and they end up in all sorts of fights with my wife (between them). He becomes possessive and angry. If i continue this 2 things might happen
1) the seperate
2) the get stronger together and I get to see my kids less.

My wife however has said if I push too hard, they will move away to get some distance and there is a chance it will be hard to see my children and be quite painful for them. She wanted to be friends but that is just heartache for me.

Do they live together? Is this guy married?

They don't live together as such. He works away in mining so is only there about 2 nights a week. The rest of the time she is alone or with the kids.
He was previously engaged to a girl who he has also left. My wife did mention how he just switches off and doesn't contact her anymore however my wife is the type of person to want to keep some communication open.
For the 2 weeks when were friendly to each other we were quite open and talked about many things and she did mention he comes with faults, but she still was in love with him.

As far as the house goes, I financially have the upper hand as I can afford to buy her out whereas she couldn't, the banks just would loan her the money. However she was never really concern with financial assets

You must take some steps ASAP to protect your rights as a father. How father friendly is Australia? Will you get custody of your kids if you file for custody?

If you were in America, I would tell you to file papers to have an order issued to have the kids returned to the marital home and have her pay you child support and alimony.

Get a lawyer. Tell them what�s happened and ask how you can get your kids back. You may be able to sue the OM for adultery.

Don�t sit idle. Don�t let her threats of moving away stand. Fight!

Wes, I'm sorry you have to be here, but you've come to a good place for help.

Your wife is wayward. Waywards have to do a few things in order to be wayward:

They rewrite their marital history ("I've never really been in love with you...I've been unhappy for X years...You've always been more concerned about your job/health/parents/whatever than me." And so on.) They have to do this in order to justify straying.

They get these rosy pictures in their head about how wonderful their life with their affair partner is going to be, how all of their problems will be solved. If there are children involved they want to remain 'good friends' with their BH. That makes it easier on them when it comes to child care and custody arrangements. You, of course, need to let her know that that will never happen. You will NEVER be good friends with her. Or her POSOM.

They rewrite the dictionary. She is not 'in a relationship'. She is having an affair by virtue of the fact that she is laying with one man while married to another. Don't let her get away with calling it something cute like a 'relationship'. It's an adulterous affair. Make sure you call it that when you talk to her.

As far as contacting OM, hell, yes I would! I would let him know that he will never have a moment's peace for inserting himself into your marriage! And if he gets into a 'fight' with your WW, so much the better! You want them to have conflict!

Oh, yeah, the wayward will also threaten, cajole, shriek like a banshee and do whatever else it takes for them to get their way. Don't let her do this to you. Tell her that you will make sure that she is legally unable to move your children anywhere.

She wants to be friends.

I wonder if this guy is married? Have you done a background check on him? It is very odd that he wouldn't move in with her. This should be very easy to check out. Have you done it? He could very well be married and if so, you could blow up this affair and save your marriage easily.


This makes me suspicious that he is married.


Their affair is in a free fall.

Are you court ordered to pay her maintenance?

I would get the book Surviving an Affair ASAP and read it so you understand what is going on here. Her affair was based on a fantasy and is currently in state of fast erosion. All the things that made the affair possible, thoughtlessness, deceit, dishonesty, will kill it off fairly quickly. 95% of affairs never make it to marriage and fall apart in under 2 years.

My feeling about your situation is to focus on doing a FABULOUS Plan A for another couple of months, meeting her needs, attracting her back, making your home a wonderful inviting place. Look for any opportunity to make the OM jealous and cause fights between them. [innocently, of course ] Focus on courting her and wooing her back.

HOWEVER, if you are paying her any money that is not court ordered, I would cut that off ASAP. Be sweet about it and just tell her you have been told by a lawyer not to pay that. It is a very bad idea to finance your wife's affair. It is enabling.

Then after a couple of months of wooing her back, go into a very dark Plan B and do not see or speak to her until she ends her affair and agrees to commit to the marriage. I believe by that time, you will have built up such good feelings [because you are going north] and the OM will have built up such black feelings [he is going south] that you will have the effect of yanking her off the fence.

The OM is probably barely meeting 1-2 top needs and you are meeting 3-4 minor needs. She also knows you are there for her on the sidelines. Staying there basically props her affair up. When you exit the picture in a dark Plan B, it will fall to the OM to meet those need and the expectations will raise on him. This will cause renewed conflict in the affair. They will start lovebusting since they don't have benefit of this program. i predict the affair will fall apart quickly if you go into Plan B.

In Australia there is a document that is filed with the Family Law Courts over here. It is as simple as agreeing to custody on the children. At the moment as mentioned we have it set as 50/50 but I don't have the legal documents done and filed with the courts in case she changes her mind. The maintenance I pay is simply based on her wage vs my wage and how much care we have of the kids. My wage ($65000) Hers ($10000) even with 50/50 care means I pay her money every month. However I don't haven't filled out the forms to make it legally binding.
She knows I am a good father, and I truely believe she would not want me never to be part of the children s life, but then again I didn't see the affair coming

Exactly this guy is married or has a full time GF. OM sounds like a player juggleing several women at once. MAkes me wonder if hiring a PI to prove this may be worth the cost if you can afford it.

Time to lawyer up. Cut her off financially, file for full custody this was WW can't move the kids out of the family home.

Thanks for the reply MelodyLane,
Even though we are not talking much at the moment, i know my wife like the back of my hand. I can pull her close again in the coming months and get close as friends before going to plan B. I just need to emotionally be strong enough to not fall to pieces as I have done in the past.
I can't speak to the affair partner, yes it causes fights between them but also puts me back to stage one of her blaming me for the fallout of it all and then she won't be talking to me again.
It may take 2-3 months of getting her close before plan B, and it is so hard when you love your wife dearly.

This could very well work in your favor. Your WW is forced to be by herself for long periods of time, without POSOM there to distract her from her conscience.

I would suggest that you make it difficult for your children to fill up those empty hours, so that she is forced to be alone with herself. Do they have lessons to study for (in their own room in their own home) or activities outside of school that would eat up a lot of time?

I would stop paying her spousal support of any kind. Family money should not go to finance an affair. Financing her affair is not in any of your best interest. She should be getting that money from the OM, not you. Giving her money is to enable her affair. I wouldn't fill out any forms. Make her take you to court with her money to squeeze anything out of you.

And I would blame it all on the lawyers. Just say "my lawyer advised me not to pay this anymore. Sorry."

And I would implore you to do a background check on the OM ASAP. I bet you find something.

Full custody is impossible as I work full time and in Australia they wouldn't grant it on terms of adultery, but putting the legal documents in place will always make sure she brings the kids to me when things go bad.

He is definitely single. He was engaged to a girl in Spain in a long distant relationship and just sent her a email and cut her off. I have told him "you are very lucky to have such a wonderful women in your life, treat her well as I will never give up on her and am only 2 seconds behind" and he hates it.

Help me out on this. When you say 'maintenance' what, exactly, are you 'maintaining'? What is the formula in Australia for determining child support?

I can't do anything about the Maintanence i pay. In Australia, when you separate the wife simply fills out forms for Rent Assistance and Child Maintenance. This money is deducted from my pay even before I see it.
Pretty unfair to pay for your children when you never wanted to be separated from them ever.

WesH, the point is since it hasn't been court ordered you need to stop paying her. As ML said, you're only funding the affair. She needs a wake up call. If there is no ordered visitation schedule for the kids and no order for support...kids don't go to her when she is with OM and she gets no funding from you....period.

Wes, I would check him out. The man is a cad and a liar and I am sure he only told your wife what he wanted her to know. As far as she knows he is married and is leading a double life. There is no telling what this loser is hiding.

Well a arrangement has been made. In Australia it is known as the CSA (Child Support Agency)
http://www.csa.gov.au/ParentsAndCarers/yourChildSupportOptions.aspx

We currently have a formula assessment for how I pay. This will be in place and only changes if the become defacto.

Never thought of getting him checked out more thoroughly..

Banks don't work that way, Wes. The person has to meet certain conditions for the money, and they have to have the ability to repay the loan. It's doubtful that your WW makes enough money to repay a loan of that size.

It sounds like your hands are tied on the legal front in terms of the maintenance payments. However, you need to file the documents that cement 50/50 custody.

It sounds to me like you wish to be Mr. Nice Guy before going to Plan B. You won�t accomplish anything so long as you permit her to have her cake and eat it too.

Why wait to throw a wrench into it all? File the legal papers, get a lawyer, and start playing hardball. I�m sure there are consequences to adultery in Australia.

The most important thing, however, is that you file the 50/50 papers. That is more important than anything.

Wes, nice guys finish last. Please don't ever say anything like this to that POS again. This makes it sound like you are going to hand off your WW to him without a fight.

Come on, Wes! Let the POS know that he will never have a moment's peace as long as he is with your WW! Do you have his cell phone number? Email address? Can you get them?

As far as the house goes, i have seen my broker and can buy the house out from her (and pay her out) I have the income to support it. She currently doesn't earn enough to get a loan for a house and therefore would have to keep renting.
Obviously however my long term goal is to have her back and be in councilling.

You have to kill the affair to get her back. You have to do hard things to raise holy he77 on her side and between them. That means you�re not Mr. Nice Guy anymore.

Make it so that he has to decide if he truly loves her enough to deal with the drama. Lots of men aren�t willing to deal with the BH who fights. Many OM are cowards.

I have his mobile number with me in my phone. He uses it for work so wont change his number. When i call him or text he knows it is me and never answers then2 seconds later turns the phone off for a day.

Good. Call and text him regularly. It's even better that he can't change the number. If he's using it for work he won't be able to keep it turned off for long.

Can you get his email address?

It's clear that he is a coward. He backed off the one time you told him to stay away from your house. Use this to your advantage.

Also if i send texts or emails that can be seen as harassment, and it is very easy to file for a VRO (Violent Restraining Order) in Australia. This is then in place and you wont see your kids until you go to court. It's all BS

She can't very well file one against you if your texts and emails are to him, correct?

You seriously need to consult a laywer to find out what's what for Australia. We're speculating on our end based on US law, which varies state to state, but is fairly consistent when it comes to family law.

Even if you need to site an adultery statute written in 1850, use it if it's in the books.

Get a lawyer.

I might get the court documents done for 50/50 care and get them lodged so she can not take the kids from me and then raise some hell. Suggestions?

I always get caught at this place. This was my thought s as mentioned previously.
__________________________________________________________

Their affair is in a free fall.

Are you court ordered to pay her maintenance?

I would get the book Surviving an Affair ASAP and read it so you understand what is going on here. Her affair was based on a fantasy and is currently in state of fast erosion. All the things that made the affair possible, thoughtlessness, deceit, dishonesty, will kill it off fairly quickly. 95% of affairs never make it to marriage and fall apart in under 2 years.

My feeling about your situation is to focus on doing a FABULOUS Plan A for another couple of months, meeting her needs, attracting her back, making your home a wonderful inviting place. Look for any opportunity to make the OM jealous and cause fights between them. [innocently, of course grin] Focus on courting her and wooing her back.

HOWEVER, if you are paying her any money that is not court ordered, I would cut that off ASAP. Be sweet about it and just tell her you have been told by a lawyer not to pay that. It is a very bad idea to finance your wife's affair. It is enabling.

Then after a couple of months of wooing her back, go into a very dark Plan B and do not see or speak to her until she ends her affair and agrees to commit to the marriage. I believe by that time, you will have built up such good feelings [because you are going north] and the OM will have built up such black feelings [he is going south] that you will have the effect of yanking her off the fence.

The OM is probably barely meeting 1-2 top needs and you are meeting 3-4 minor needs. She also knows you are there for her on the sidelines. Staying there basically props her affair up. When you exit the picture in a dark Plan B, it will fall to the OM to meet those need and the expectations will raise on him. This will cause renewed conflict in the affair. They will start lovebusting since they don't have benefit of this program. i predict the affair will fall apart quickly if you go into Plan B

VS

A more aggressive style, pushing her away, shutting her down and creating hell between the 2 of them??

But he would have to tell you to stop contacting him before that could happen, right? So, do it until he tells you that.

No he wouldn't have to prove anything or tell me to get a Violent Restraining Order here in Australia. It is simply if he even feels threatened. The courts here are full of this rubbish where partners use a VRO to keep there partners away from themselves or the affair partner. It is a very easy process to do.

My wife often would think i was controlling (which was rubbish) so i have to be careful with a aggressive approach because even if they break up this way, she will see it as all my fault.

I think you can cause holy hell in the affair by being very strategic and pushing the OM out by attracting your wife back with the plan I outlined above. Since the OM is gone most of the time, you have ample opportunity to ease him out.

But I would IMPLORE you to do a background check on him and find out if he is married. I have a feeling this cat is living a secret second life. Since your W is out of the house, taking an aggressive approach is going to flop, IMO, because all she has to do is slam the door shut. And then the OM just looks like the hero. More effective to be MORE attractive than the OM and woo her back. Be shrewd and strategic..

Thanks MelodyLane

I agree with your thoughts I just have to get my head around it and remove all emotions for the time being. Yesterday she said to me that if we were to be friends then there was no future for them (affair partners rules) so he is obviously quite threatened by me and so he should be.

When my wife was around for the previous 2 weeks and we were very civil I'm sure he didn't know all the details.(you will laugh as i was sunburnt and she rubbed cream into my back) She has however mentioned as they all do that she is not going to give him up therefore the possibility of a friendship between us is low well at least for this week.
My major draw card is the kids and there happiness. She wants everything to be good between us so she will naturally want to be close to me in time, i'm just going to have to keep a cool head.

She has also justified her actions by saying to me "that i need to meet somebody to make me happy" or "we just aren't right for each other blah blah blah"

We she lived in the family home she pulled down all the family photos, now that i'm back in they are all back up.

Also for the 2 weeks when i didn't bring up the affair or him she said it was "good and easy"

So i guess I am in for a long hard road ahead.
It seems i'm not going to ever be able to speak at this moment about him or the affair and act like im moving on. In the mean time i guess i need to try to keep making more love deposits and making her see the absolute good in me. (not hard as i am a great father, friend ect) but have obviously shown my bad side because of all the pain and hurt.
If i bring her close eventually something will slip between them and he will find out sometime down the track and hell will break out between them but it won't be seen as my fault.
Then perhaps I might be in a position where once again she sees me for what I am - her husband and friend.

You have the right idea. But you don't want to be seen as her "friend," but as her LOVER. You want to romance her. The top 4 intimate emotional needs are conversation, affection, rec companionship and sexual fulfillment. I would focus on all 4 and be as attractive as possible. Try to flirt with her and SUBTLY draw her into a conversation. Don't be pushy or needy, but be attractive.

What about your personal appearance? Do you dress nice, smell good? Have a fresh haircut? Approach any contact as you would a first date. Look for opportunities to ask her out without being pushy.

Do this for about 2 months and then go into Plan B.

Oh, WHATEVER. And I mean this comment toward your WW.
Wes, if they break up and you reconcile, she will not see it as being your fault.

Just a quick info flash for those advising on custody in Australia.... its very formalised and is only just starting to implement a starting point of 50/50.
50/50 or agreed joint custody does not mean residential custody orders....

Assessment rules are below..........

FAMILY LAW ACT 1975 - SECT 60CC


Determining child's best interests
(1) Subject to subsection (5), in determining what is in the child's best interests, the court must consider the matters set out in subsections (2) and (3).

Primary considerations

(2) The primary considerations are:

(a) the benefit to the child of having a meaningful relationship with both of the child's parents; and

(b) the need to protect the child from physical or psychological harm from being subjected to, or exposed to, abuse, neglect or family violence.

Note: Making these considerations the primary ones is consistent with the objects of this Part set out in paragraphs 60B(1)(a) and (b).

Additional considerations

(3) Additional considerations are:

(a) any views expressed by the child and any factors (such as the child's maturity or level of understanding) that the court thinks are relevant to the weight it should give to the child's views;

(b) the nature of the relationship of the child with:

(i) each of the child's parents; and

(ii) other persons (including any grandparent or other relative of the child);

(c) the willingness and ability of each of the child's parents to facilitate, and encourage, a close and continuing relationship between the child and the other parent;

(d) the likely effect of any changes in the child's circumstances, including the likely effect on the child of any separation from:

(i) either of his or her parents; or

(ii) any other child, or other person (including any grandparent or other relative of the child), with whom he or she has been living;

(e) the practical difficulty and expense of a child spending time with and communicating with a parent and whether that difficulty or expense will substantially affect the child's right to maintain personal relations and direct contact with both parents on a regular basis;

(f) the capacity of:

(i) each of the child's parents; and

(ii) any other person (including any grandparent or other relative of the child);
to provide for the needs of the child, including emotional and intellectual needs;

(g) the maturity, sex, lifestyle and background (including lifestyle, culture and traditions) of the child and of either of the child's parents, and any other characteristics of the child that the court thinks are relevant;

(h) if the child is an Aboriginal child or a Torres Strait Islander child:

(i) the child's right to enjoy his or her Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander culture (including the right to enjoy that culture with other people who share that culture); and

(ii) the likely impact any proposed parenting order under this Part will have on that right;

(i) the attitude to the child, and to the responsibilities of parenthood, demonstrated by each of the child's parents;

(j) any family violence involving the child or a member of the child's family;

(k) any family violence order that applies to the child or a member of the child's family, if:

(i) the order is a final order; or

(ii) the making of the order was contested by a person;

(l) whether it would be preferable to make the order that would be least likely to lead to the institution of further proceedings in relation to the child;

(m) any other fact or circumstance that the court thinks is relevant.

(4) Without limiting paragraphs (3)(c) and (i), the court must consider the extent to which each of the child's parents has fulfilled, or failed to fulfil, his or her responsibilities as a parent and, in particular, the extent to which each of the child's parents:

(a) has taken, or failed to take, the opportunity:

(i) to participate in making decisions about major long‑term issues in relation to the child; and

(ii) to spend time with the child; and

(iii) to communicate with the child; and

(b) has facilitated, or failed to facilitate, the other parent:

(i) participating in making decisions about major long‑term issues in relation to the child; and

(ii) spending time with the child; and

(iii) communicating with the child; and

(c) has fulfilled, or failed to fulfil, the parent's obligation to maintain the child.

(4A) If the child's parents have separated, the court must, in applying subsection (4), have regard, in particular, to events that have happened, and circumstances that have existed, since the separation occurred.

Thanks for the info.
She is actually a good mother, by this I mean she will always care for and look after the children well. Her focus is not on the kids so much these days, but rather him. I just wished she hadn't bought the kids into the affair and introduced him and played happy families.

As a update.. I spoke to her for 25 minutes today about all types of things, not all about the boys, it was friendly and light. She always keeps me well informed about what she is up too and where he is. Not sure why she brings him up (considering she knows it upsets me)but once again we have gone from enemy's to friends in 48 hours... got to love the rollercoaster.

She is doing this in order to normalize their relationship. Tell her that you do not wish to hear specifics about her adulterous relationship.

What does she say about him?

You would think she would be over the moon being with the "love of her life" but she has said he is not without his faults too.
So that's fair isn't it, I'm suppose to not have any faults after 15 years together and they have been together for 5 months and he is allowed too.
I'm pretty sure it will eventually blow up (fingers x), I mean to tell her not to have contact with me... I mean come on, what planet is this guy on. We have 2 beautiful boys together and 15 years of history.
Last night he was back from working away so she asked me to have the kids another night. She said she had hurt her back (which she had) and wanted rest but who knows?? I will always have my kids but should i have said no and sent them home.
I was trying to be a little friendly and accommodating.

@WesH -

If there is one thing that you must always do is enjoy your children for as much time as you can get. Don't ever think that you are punishing her by making her keep the kids. Look at is is she is missing out on seeing the kids. Always keep the kids! It can only benefit you and the kids.

IMHO, you have powerful friends giving you great advice.

I assume that you wish to save your marriage. So it might be time for you to start reading up on Plan A. I will bump a thread for you.

Well just had the contact with her for kids to go home. Time to begin Plan A
She was quite touch feely, which was nice and I kept my cool.
I was dressed nice as I have taken on a second job to pay for the expense this stupid affair created. She touch my arm and was worried I was working to hard. Nice to here her concerned.
She also has huge amount of work to do with Christmas coming (she is a mobile hairdresser) so I simply said I appreciated how hard this time of year was for her and if i could help out in any way let me know. It was a good contact so its a start.

Well, I would not accommodate her when it comes to enabling her affair. That does not help your marriage at all. Instead tell her politely that you already have plans.

Thanks Melody, I will remember that next time.. You have been such wonderful support.

What about the danger if he refuses to take the kids and the WW has the OM over anyway. Kids in one room, WW and OM in another room doing a little SF. Not to mention having exposing the kids to accept this will make them confused about what a POS the OM is, and how bad their mom is acting.

I would tell her you are unable to take them right then. I'm all for having the kids as much as you can, but you don't want to help her conduct her A. She wants them out of the picture for the moment so she can reconnect with OM on a romantic level. I would thwart her plans for that.

Another thing you want to remember: kids do not typically help to create a romantic, fantasy-filled setting for lovers. Especially when the kids don't belong to OM. He has no emotional investment in your children and will see them as interfering with his warm, fuzzy, romantic homecoming. This is a good tool to utilize.

It was very upsetting for me to see her put the children in front of him so very fast. It was very hard to see them play happy family. He is at a stage where he is just buying the children lots of presents.
I on the other hand am trying to keep my boys in line. (they are 4 and 7). The 4 year old is ok but the 7 year old has just started to develop a real attitude, which I try to kurb really quickly.
My wife and I both love the kids (even though her actions affect them) and we still try to parent them well,but it is hard when the parents are apart.
I always make sure I tell them to listen to there mum and to behave well in front of her and she appreciates the support.
I guess we are on the same page there.

My x's ow/w in the affairage tried to do that too, and would always try to tell me how she loved my son so much. But, when the rubber hit the road, and she decided earlier this year to divorce my xh and her wh (as he cheated on her again) she suddenly didn't call to see my son anymore.

He has last seen her about 3 months ago.

WesH, the om is like that. He will do what he can IN FRONT of your ww, to make her think he loves the kids like they're his. But time will show.

Meanwhile, YOU become her confidant, woo her, do all the great plan A stuff you can when the posom is out of town. Do little acts to help her, but let posom have the chaos and don't give them opps to have romantic nights alone. Let him have the chaos that comes with kids! In fact, when they have a cold and are really sick, let him deal with them.

It is funny, but when my son (has asthma) would get really sick in cold and flu season, somehow he was always coming back to my house...and not with my xh and ow/wifey.

They don't like reality. Waywards and the pos om and ow out there thrive on fantasy. Burst that bubble and woo your wifey back, but make it safe first.

Make it safe first for her to confide in her, decide which en's she values most and play that up. Play it up and woo her. Make her "cheat" on the posom.

You can do that! Out wayward the posom! Give it the most hellacious plan A you can.

Well, another update.

My wife has hurt her back quite bad and is quite a lot pain which is terrible to see.
She had been running behind schedule today with mobile hairdressing and had taken the kids to her clients. We currently have a arrangement where I have the kids every 2nd day so it was my night with them. She was approx 1hr away from me so instead I offered to meet her half way. We actually then spoke for the 25 minutes as we drove towards each other. I grabbed my children and she said how much she appreciated meeting her half way. Then as I was leaving she actually gave me a hug. It was quite unexpected as we hadn't touched in 4 months.

The other thing today that I found out is she is having Xmas Eve and Xmas morning with the boys. She is spending Christmas Eve with the OM and his family. It is interesting as my wife has lost both her mother and father and I don't have a close family.
I think she never really dealt with the death of her parents (she's tells me she has)and I can see the appeal of the affair partners family (they are Spanish and are large and close)

I am going to take a little power back this week by requesting that I have New Years off from the boys. That may make seeing the New Year in for the OM not so fun.

Another hard morning after seeing my WS this morning. she was wearing all new Jewellery from the OM, and that was hard to see but to be expected. We spoke nice, all was good as we exchanged the children. she always watches the way the children hug me goodbye. They hold on.. and it is a love only their parents can give them.
She also mentioned that she had filled out some paperwork to get a car transferred over to her name, but said there was no rush on it. The OM was quite persistant that she the car transfer done quickly as he thinks I would sell it on her. (Far from it, it is just a car and she needs it for my kids) She couldn't drive the other day because of the small problem in her back and he wouldn't drive it because it was under my name and my boys might have told me.
It is just so hard sometimes to keep so positive but that is what plan A is. I will slowly bring her back close to me.

What we have here is a 5 star barf arama!


Why are you financing your WW affair?

WW needs a car?

Too bad for her.

Let me see WW sleeping with the OM.

WW not sleeping with her BH.

Tell WW that no husband provides a car for his wife when that wife is banging another man while married to you.

Then further tell ww that if the OM is getting the goodies then the OM should show his appreciation and move mountains to get his "woman" a car.

Let the OM fail at providing financially for your WW. This would help the light penetrate WW fog.

You are letting fear control you.

You are trying to placate WW so she doesn't divorce you, doesn't work. Women don't respect doormats. You are being a door mat.

Neville Chamberlain

Do you know who he is?

Do you what his policy of appeasement ccomplished?

Thanks for th feedback TheRoad,
Technically it is her car, we both had cars but they were both under my name. Mine was sold and I now have a company car and got the money for my other car. It is just currently still registered under my name.
Can you believe the OM actually doesn't have his own car and she is has to drop him and pick him up from places.

I still find it really hard knowing what is the correct course of action. She is very strong willed and stubborn. For her to come out of the fog I believe is going to be difficult.

We currently are talking openly and when swapping the children over she stays and talks for a while. I can still sense a real connection (crazy as that seems)

I just need some tips on how you show your partner love, compassion, kindness to bring them close again ect while at the same time not being a doormat. The last thing I want is to end up friends.

Is your wife living with the OM? Because I don't see plan A working when she is living and sleeping with him.

How long have you been doing plan A?

When is your deadline to end plan A and start plan B?

My wife went and got her own rental property, and he stays over but hard to tell how much. He works away and its seems his is only over a day or 2 every week. She is paying for the rental and all the bills associated with the property and it is all her own furniture/belongs in there, none of his. He has no financial involvement at all.

As far as starting plan A and B. I have acted in all the wrongs ways for going on 4 months now because of all the hurt emotions. This hasn't put me in a great light with WW. I now with help from this forum got myself in a far better place and want to put my best foot forward.

I have been with her for 15 years so I will be patient. What is a normal time frame for Part A? It is difficult because I would love to cause some troubles between as it always makes them lovebust for quite some time but it also backfires on me.

Wesh,

You�re in Plan Appeasement. You�re not going to get anywhere doing what you�re doing. If anything, she has zero respect for you and you�ve done nothing to get it back. If you want to shake a WW out of her craziness, then you need to do things that tick her off. File the legal papers you need to to establish 50/50.

Then get an attorney and find out what your options are. I�m sure that there is some term for abandonment you can use against your WW. There has to be something you can do other than smile nicely when she gives you the kids and be friends with someone who doesn�t deserve an ounce of your kindness right now.

You need to go to Plan B and cut off all contact. You�re scared to, but you really need to attack the affair by taking legal action to protect your rights as a father, cutting her off financially (which means not giving her the car), and going dark.

Giving her the cars because of the kids is a weak excuse. I had the same motivation when I gave my ex our brand new mini. It was �for the kids.�

The reality was that I simply made things easy for her. If she wishes to leave and no longer be married, then she can get her a$$ to work and buy herself a car. YOU need the family car for the kids.

Grow a set of balls.

^^^^^^^^^^^^

Totally agree - this is hard! Sorry about that but you need to get moving! She is using you and you know it.

Being nice is not going to bring her back.

Man this is hard and I try and take advice and put it in perspective to where I am at the moment.
Some say Plan A, some say Plan B.
Am I afraid to lose my wife?? I am (and have), I made some errors in our marriage (not as big as this ripper)and would have loved the opportunity to have gone to councilling and spoken about it.

Plan B for me is complicated as we swap the kids over every 2nd day as we both adore them. It is very difficult to just not speak to her and go dark. On reflection we both had allowed the relationship to go stale.

Plan A on the other hand lets her see the me which I am becoming. I have began to find myself, enjoying my own company and who I am. She is watching I'm pretty sure. When the cool/calm me comes out she gets closer and we talk more (it is not uncommon to speak for 1/2hr on the phone), but I agree I am not ever a option until the OM is gone, but I don't think I will be a option for a few months without being able to meet those emotional needs he obviously has.

So confused.

You said D Day was :



When did you first become aware of Plan A and REALLY begin to WORK a Plan A?

I think you should stay longer in Plan A.
Are you doing both carrot and stick?
Heavy on the carrot?

All you're doing is feeding into her fantasy that she can leave you and you all can be splendid friends while she starts new life with OM.

In her mind you will all get along splendidly, hang out together, and the kids will run around you in green fields while rainbows, butterflies, and cut bunnies prance about.

The sad thing is, you're helping her feed this reality.

Get a daycare and drop the kids off there for her to pickup. You don't have to see her that way at all. It's really rather simple.

I have only become aware of plan A only a week ago. I have spent all night tonight reading the carrot and stick concepts.

Well, I spent much time reading a lot of threads of Plan A and Plan B and Carrot/Stick treads.
I have come to the conclusion that I will need to do a good Plan A for a number of months.
When I found out about the affair, I acted terribly. I became enraged and actually stuck out again the OM as he was inside my family home. My wife at this point was scared of me and I believe it did a lot of damage that has to be slowly repaired. Looking back I am disappointed in my actions but with the amount of rage and pure emotion I don't think I would have behaved any differently. I think this action concreted in my wifes mind the reason for leaving and pushed her into the arms of the other guy very easily. Up to this point they were right at the beginning stages of the Affair. He just had play up to her with the "I understand" "You deserve better" lines to draw her close and meet some of her emotional needs.
I really want ot give Plan A my all for 3-4 months. What do you think?

Well need some help guys.
WW has now decided I need to do my tax for the year so she can getrent assistance and it is based on my income. I have held of doing it and it is annoying her a little. She then mentions to me that she wants to get away with the OM between Christmas and New Years and for me to have my boys. I haven't started a arguement but need to come up with some excuses to not allow them to have romantic time alone. (I am not working during this time frame).

I also mentioned today as part of Plan A that I was taking the dog to the park and whether she and the boys would like to join me, she was working at home but has said for me to come to the house to pick the boys up and take them. (remembering that the OM didn't want me to know where they were living) So he wouldn't like that.

Also for New Years I had mentioned to her that I wanted to not have the boys so I could celebrate with friends, she mentioned to me that she was celebrating with OM family (they are spanish) then at 12am were going out together to celebrate leaving my kids with the OM parents. This just doesn't sit well with me and I feel like I am on a back foot.

Need some help here guys
Much Appreciated..

WesH,

All I can say is that your fear of losing your W has actually cost you your W. Your marriage is toast and you need to face this.

The only question remaining is do you want to rebuild a marriage with her and if you do, do you have the GUTS to do it right, rather than just muddle along making a mess of it.

Son, rebuilding a marriage is not for wimps and so far you have acted like a wimp from your tantrums to your acquiescing to her every demand.

Let us know when you realize what you really want to do and are willing to do.

God Bless,
JL

Hey Justlearning,


Your comments have put me off guard a little and I will for definately not tell you i am scared about my future with my wife.This has been and still is the hardest thing I have ever done. We were together for 15 wonderful years up until a few months ago.
I am here at these forums because I need guidance now more than ever. I am not scared to fight or upset my wife and OM, but am afraid about her holding the kids against me and damaging chances of any reconcilation.
I want my wife back (full stop) and I will fight for it, let me know what to do.

Brother, we're all trying to help you and almost all of us know exactly how you feel. We're telling you what works. You have to implement the advice. You're appeasing. The objective is not to do as she wishes and appease the affair.

Have you filed the papers you need to secure 50/50 custody?

You need to consult a lawyer. She shouldn't be doing your taxes and she shouldn't keep that money either.

GET A LAWYER!

I appreciate all the help I can get, I really do.

I want to stick with Plan A for a good set amount of time, I think however you are very correct with me appeasing her. Surely I need to get to a place where I meet her emotional needs without becoming a doormat.

I will need to take a firm stand whilst being calm and cool, it just at times is very difficult.
She isn't actually doing my taxes. She needs me to do them, as from these the government can determine how much rent assistance she gets. As far as the children she has never stopped me seeing them but understand how quick things can change in these volatile situations, I will look into it as a priority.

Any other advice?

Yes. Quit letting your WW boss you around.

Get a lawyer to protect yourself. Today.

WesH

From what I'm able to gather you are living in the marital home and your WW has rented an apartment. If there are no documents drawn up for child visitation do not let her take them when she is with OM. She is the one who left right? and got her own place right? She needs to deal with the consequences of that decision. This goes for the tax filing also. She asking you to do all the leg work to make her life easier all the while she's boinkin OM. Do not finance her affair. Do you see this is what you are doing? YOU ARE BEING A DOORMAT. You need a bigger stick portion of Plan A.

BTW, have you exposed this to everyone who can influence your WW?

The problem with men and custody is that they so often surrender to the woman. Look at your own words. �She lets me see them.�

This is where you need to take ownership of your marriage. She should fear you, not the other way around.

Take your time on doing your taxes. She wants more money from you. You�ll get to it when you�re dam*n good and ready to.

She needs to be the one to say, �He lets me see the kids.�

Don�t assume, even in Australia, that women get the kids. This is why it is critical that you get a lawyer, like yesterday.

Affairs have consequences. Abandoning a marriage has consequences.

Also, to he11 with your New Year plans. You�re now in a custody battle. Take your kids every time she offers them. Show how she defaults to you with the kids.

You disarm any possible attempt on her part later on to say you�re an unfit parent when you have documentation showing every single instance when she�s given you the kids.

Look, the stick of Plan A is to make divorced life as unappealing an option as possible for the WW while making staying married to you look like the much better option.

You do these things while taking active steps to kill the affair.

Well, I have created another fight. I said I was not going to just mind the kids over the New Years break for 5 days whilst she went on break with OM. I love my kids but i'm not a babysitter while they continue living there life.

I feel absolutely terrible now, she once again wont speak to me, it is very painful and I the OM another text to say I wont back down from my wife, this will cause huge conflict between them.

I hate the pain she puts me through and her lack of any sight or desire to even fix the marriage. At times it would be easier to let go.. It is just a hard day but I know I am worth more than this and my children deserve so much more.

Wes, this may go against other vets' thoughts, but I think you've made a good choice. I suspect your OM isn't too invested in your children and would prefer they not be underfoot. This will create conflict in more ways than one.

And you are NOT A BABYSITTER.

My advice to get the kids is based more on the lines of disarming any attempt she might have to say that you're not a good dad in court. She can't very well do that when she gives the kids to you on a regular basis. You can also establish a pattern where you're the one who appears responsible while she's out partying like a teen.

If the goal is to create conflict, then don't take the kids. But I say take them.

Trust me, my friend, it gets better as time goes on. You will hurt for a long time, but it slowly hurts less and less each day.

That's the good thing about Plan B. You get insulated from the torture you're going through right now. Right now it hurts. Later on it will simply enrage. The anger phase is a nasty one. Be careful.

I have from the day she left had 50/50 care of the children. I have and will continue to put a huge amount of time and love into my kids. I think for next year I will concentrate on getting some more structure in place for the children which is also easier as I have the family home.

I have spent 5 months wanting her back and it has drained me.. I am tired..but will continue to remain hopeful. I believe I need to find a place where I show her unconditional love, where the door is open and allow her affair to take its natural course while not being walked over. The hard thing I have found in this journey so far is that I can't change my personality and what I believe in and nor do I want to.

I will never approve of the affair and never accept him as a partner, but I need to stop doing love busters if ever there is a chance to one day reconnect. It is hard, it is painful but it is life.

WesH, I agree with lostdads. In my separation agreement I have right of first refusal when WW wants to leave the kids with sitter so she can go do her "thing". Yes, at times I feel like a babysitter and I really detest feeling that way, but the point is to spend as much time as I can with my kids. This can feel like you're condoning WW's behavior and she may take full advantage of that but in the long run it can only reflect positively on you if it should come to divorce. Your kids see what's going on. They are not oblivious as to why mom doesn't want to spend time with them. Take them at every opportunity. There's no reason npot to. You are not the one needing time to carry on an A.

IMHO, I think not taking the kids in order to put pressure on your WW is not best for the kids. What if she decides to find another sitter after you turned her down? That leaves kids with someone else and kids may know why mom has left them with a sitter but now their thought process may be...now where's dad? Id he leaving us too? Believe me I struggled tremendously with this and I finally decided that I couldn't leave my kids with the impression both mom and dad are out of the picture. Since we are the ones fighting for our marriages and families I feel we must take on this responsibility when WWs priorities are all f***ed up.

WesH, are you paying her to stay at her apartment? Is she having OM over when she has the kids? If so...STOP IT!!! Tell her "I won't pay for you to leave the marriage. I want to do all I can to stay together and work on roconciling and renewing our marriage and make it better than ever but I cannot and will not continue to fund your effort to destroy it.

Wesh, please answer this:

Do you have official legal documents giving you 50/50 custody?

That is critical. A promise from WW is worthless. She could start keeping the kids from you and using them as a weapon and you're up the creek without a paddle because you have nothing legal and in writing securing your rights as a father.

I have no idea how things are in Australia. I know that father's rights in England suck. I lived there 3 years and remember seeing men dressed as super heroes climbing the walls of parliament in protest because they never got to see their kids and were alienated from them.

It is absolutely critical that you don't become one of these men. Filing the papers for the custody of your kids, establishing and protecting the status quo, will protect you and them from having her use them as a weapon and bargaining chip.

Thanks guys for the feedback,

My wife is very financially independent and always has been. She pays for her apartment and all the associated bills. I also know she spends money on things for the kids (ie school fees, toys) and never asks me for any help as well. When we were together money was never a issue, it really never meant anything to her or me..

Last night for the first time she opened up a little and basically said she left this marriage because of me, not the OM. She believes over time my behavior had become unpredictable. She simply wasn't enjoying being married and our arguments and ups and downs had taken there toll. Unfortunately I never saw it this way and it wasn't communicated with me.

She said she believes we can be both very active parents and wants to do that, she wants to continue with our arrangement of seeing the children every 2nd day and both of us taking active roles in the children s upbringing. I think my children can be a strong draw card for me. She knows what a great father I am, and the OM doesn't like me seeing her at all, which is impossible in the case.

I suppose with this insight it gives me the opportunity to draw her close, meet emotional needs and subtly get a better standing with her. She is super independent and her personality is not one to apologize for her mistakes so a Plan B approach will always blow up and she closes the door. At the moment the OM seems like the better option, but it is early days.

It sounds like she is setting you up for the 'D' talk - as in, the two of you will divorce, but she will allow (!) you to continue seeing your children on this schedule that works for her and her OM. I would let her know that D is NOT in the picture, that you will NOT be her friend and will drag OM through the mud that he lives in in order to convince the court that you will have primary care of your children.

Do NOT make this easy for her!

HAVE YOU FILED PAPERS TO PROTECT YOUR RIGHTS AS A FATHER?

Well another update.

I decided to go with plan A, and just give myself some space to rebuild while still showing her the best of our marriage has to offer.

Today we spoke on the phone for 30 minutes and she had had a fight with the OM. A night had happened where her and the OM were together with our 2 sons. My son (3.5 yrs old) was behaving badly and the OM turned to my wife and basically said "just put him in a room and shut the door" My wife found this completely inappropriate and said it made her feel like he was having a shot at her parenting abilities.

I don't know how bad the fight was but when we spoke about Christmas, she basically said she was unsure of some of her plans now (they had all been planned around him)

She has also done something unexpected. Originally the OM had told her to not let me know where the kids and my wife were living, so she had been picking them up and dropping them off to me. I have my boys tonight and for the first time she told me just to drop them to her in the morning. I said to her, so your coming to pick them up from me.... and she said no you just drop them off.

Don't know if i read to much into this but it seems some of the honeymoon period might be wearing off.

HAVE YOU FILED PAPERS TO SECURE YOUR RIGHTS AS A FATHER?

Good Lord, man!

Answer the question!

I can tell you that if it was my son I would go over there, get in the other man�s face, and warn him that if he ever threatened or suggested that your son be locked up again that you will gut him with a spoon.

Is there a social services you can report him to?

The paperwork for the children has been filed with the courts. It is a agreement on 50/50 care. At anytime if she holds them from me, the police can simply go and get them with me. She was shocked by it all. Definitely woke her up a little. She is seeing a different side to him now but these things are always unpredictable.

I'm positive Australia has some sort of child protection services. Report what your WW told you to them. Let them take it from there.

It would also never hurt to remind her that no man will love your kids like you do. None.

It's an opportunity to present SH's scenario to her. The scenario is, "Wouldn't you rather be deeply in love with the father of your children?"

Those aren't the exact words, but you get the picture.

Wes, I posted this to you on the 15th:
OM wasn't taking a shot at her parenting abilities. He doesn't care enough about the kids to debate her parenting abilities. He has NO investment in the kids, and doesn't want to invest. He's just interested in investing with your WW.

This is what I meant when I said that having the kids at WW's will cause conflict in their A.

I would suggest you tell WW: "I'm sure he wasn't saying anything negative about your parenting abilities because it's obvious you're a good mother. Maybe he thought they were in the way?" Give her a little nudge so that it will occur to her that OM doesn't appear to be interested in taking your place as New Dad. Your WW probably has this fuzzy little fantasy going, that they'll form this happy little unit where OM takes your place. She needs to see that that won't be the reality.

Do not threaten anyone with a physical attack. Such threats are illegal.

As for OM's suggestion to lock the boy in a room and whether social services should be told, just remember that "time outs" and "naughty steps" are becoming routine recommendations for dealing with tantrums these days. TV programmes like Supernanny show parents how to isolate children until they decide to calm down, and social services here in Britain recommended this to me for my own 9 year-old son, who had behavioural problems.

I'm not defending scumbag OM, and I agree that it would be a good thing for conflict over the children to cause conflict between him and WW. I'm just warning you not to break the law yourself, or to appear to the authorities as vindictive or extreme.

The law can go to he11 when it comes to the safety of my kids and to someone locking them in a room somewhere. But that�s me.

Look, unless something is in written, then they have no proof you ever said it. I�d make sure I was alone with him and I�d let him know.

Any claims can be denied if you�re ever confronted about them.

But my kids are something I would never sit aside peacefully on. I�d put him on notice.

Who are they more likely to believe, a man who is screwing a married woman and has the incentive to alienate the father or the father of the children?

Do as you wish. I�m just telling you what I would do. Get him alone. Warn him. Put the fear of God into him and do it when no one is around.

If OM threatened your child,,,, I don't mean like behave or you'll have to go into your room sort of thing .... then you would have very clear grounds to seek a VRO and custody of your child. Government Child protection services exist in all states and territories as well ... if you think the threat was real they will be obliged to investigate.

wesh the OM's lifestyle would tend to give indications that he is one of the fly in fly out crowd. the lifestyle is notorious for hard drinking and drugs while away from the job and full out 12 plus hour shifts while working. obviously not all workers are like that. but single and failed relationships ...well I'd put money on it there's history.
it may be worth while getting some info on this bloke via a PI... you may be able to get a protection order for your child if he has a history. that would disrupt fantasy world alright.

I would also not warn your ws you are doing this should you choose to do any background research ....

threats to a child is one of the few areas in Australian custody laws that can work well ...just make sure the allegations are as correct as you can ascertain. Sugarcane is right... you don't want them to backfire on you. But if your child is showing signs of fear and distress around the OM ... go see child protection. better to be a caring parent who was wrong than not.

The words quoted here were "just put him in a room and shut the door". I don't hear threatening words or behaviour in that, or see any degree of child abuse. They were not even said to the child, it seems.

As to your threatening OM: you are trying to win custody of your children through the legal process. Please do not go outside of the law and jeopardise your chances.

Yep. I'm not hearing a threat. I'm hearing "Get this kid outta my space."

The kid is three! Throw him in a room and close it?! Come on!

Sorry. My fuse is short on these issues. I�d at least give him a call and tell him to watch himself and what he says because I will be watching him and will not hesitate to throw child protective services on him if he ever threatens to lock my kid up again.

Remember, part of dealing with OM is the friction a BS can create. Putting him on notice certainly creates friction. Letting him know you�re watching what he does with your kids creates friction. Fine, don�t go to the extreme of telling him you�ll gut him with a spoon. I don�t even think that�s possible.

But you can certainly let him know you�re watching.

OM doesn't see this little guy as more than a distraction to his time with WW. Sad, but true.

I like to think WW is going to see a little of this disinterest trickle through her fog. This is just a taste of what OM's relationship with the kids would be.

Thanks for the feedback guys, these forums are definitely a big help.

My WW came over last night at 10pm as she had promised to cut my hair (she is a mobile hairdresser) and we talk for a while, nothing to specific and I am certainly not pushing her. The OM seems to be doing a ok job of his own in messing things up for himself.

It will be interesting to see what the next week brings over Xmas and New Years. She is suppose to be spending Christmas Eve with him and his parents, then going on a small trip on the 26,27,28,29 and 30th but this event has put a sour taste in her mouth.

We spoke briefly about Christmas and it came up that I had bought her a gift. (now i believe in giving without the expectation to receive, i mean i still love my wife) She said that it would cause conflict between the OM and her however she was going to tell him and not lie any more. So it will be very interesting to see what happens here.

She also committed to spending a bit of time opening presents with the kids at our family home which she wasn't going to do before.

From my feelings I don't think she will recommit to the marriage straight away but if he is ever out of the picture, it will allow me to reconnect over the coming months.

So, are you waiting for him to die, or get bored and leave, or something? I get the impression that you are aren't planning to fight for your M.

I am unsure as to how to fight in this situation. She has already moved out and is more than capable of being on her own. Whenever I push her or cause chaos over the OM, she simply gets closer to him, it always backfires.

She knows how deeply i love her, how much I disapprove of her behaviour and how much my family means to me, but if I push all communication shuts down between us.

I will always fight for my wife, just need a few suggestions on how to proceeed.

I haven't read through all the thread but have you exposed the affair to the OMs family and on facebook? Also, are the kids sleeping over nights at the OMs place?

Affair has been exposed as much as possible. The OM does not have his own house and lives with parents (he is 35) The children have slept over at the parents house and I have had words to them but they don't care. Morals don't run high in the family at all.

I have decided to keep my kids as much as possible because I also don't want the OM parents to create some type of bond with my kids. They aren't just instant grand-children. The parents knowing that she is married should disapprove but don't and they know the whole story... sad but true.

Contact an attorney to see if she's allowed to take them to his house and stay the night. I know that when I was divorcing my first wife (I know you're not at divorce) but we weren't allowed for opposite sex visitors over night or stay the night at opposite sex place until everything was finalized.

Sometimes I feel like I'm just venting but as time goes on your partners affair is not something you can ring your friends about everyday but is something that stays with me everyday.

Tonight my WW came and dropped our children off to me, she stay a while and we chatted a little again. Nothing specific about us but everything from weather, movies, work, children ect. As time has gone on all the negative emotions I have, have been put to the back of my head.

I am doing plan A to the best I can, I show her support, caring ways, show my independence, always looking and acting positive ect. Plan A has given me back some self worth and is making me stronger day by day. I am her husband and a damn good one at that... and it has bought her closer to me, she is starting to confide in me, and she knows im there but disapprove of all this mess.

I am still blown away at times by WW blindness.
Tonight she was tired from working, told me all the negative things about the OM, she called him "boofhead" Then she proceeds to drive to get him. He doesn't have a car and she drives 45 minutes to pick him up. Talk about the fog.

I don't react.. just play it cool. He is starting to go South and I'm heading North. I'm going to give plan A everything I have.

WesH,

You are doing everything right at this point, just let it all play out, she must learn for herself what a loser he really is.........It won't take long........in the meantime work on yourself and enjoy your children when you have them.......
It takes a while for reality to hit, so just enjoy the Xmas season and your family and try to think of great things for the New Year approaching..............
jessi

WesH, you must be sure to yourself that you have NO EXPECTATIONS. My WW behaved much the way yours did in regards to starting to see and expressing to me the faults of OM. This was a year ago and guess what, she's still with him. I believe she's just blowing off steam because she's got no one else to do so with. You're there for her too much in regards to OM. I understand that you've told her that you are not in no way accepting the situation of her A. However, you need more than words. Any discussion about the OM, whether she's bashing him or not, should be met with "I will discuss our marriage and our family, but I will have absolutey no discussion about OM, positive or negative period. Believe me when I say this. Allowing her to discuss OM with you is pretty much condoning the situation in her wayward mind.

ITA. Don't allow her to place OM anywhere on your landscape. She is normalizing her A by making him a topic of conversation with you. It is not an LB to tell her that you do not wish to hear anything about her AP.

Thanks Guys, all points taken and will be put into place asap.

Wow, never thought it would be this hard tonight. My WW came to pick the boys up, she looked incredible and she left with the boys to spend Christmas Eve with OM and his family. 5 months into this, I just realized how hard you can fall again when she left. Christmas Eve without my family is heartbreaking.

Hello WesH,

I have to say that when I happend on your story and most recent post I just cringed. I am not a veteran here at all, nor have I gone thru nearly what you are. However, based on my gut feeling and my own long=term M just prompts me to ask why you are in Plan A? It is difficult enough to do this when the marital partners are living under the same roof and the BH is able to at least exert some degree of effort to make life hell for the AP and to kill the affair. It seems you are dealing with a very unprincipled and aggressive AP, who among other things advises your WW to conceal her and your kids' whereabouts to you! Sheesh! You certainly have the desire for a PLan a, but I don't think you have much of any opportunity because she has checked out of your maital home, and because she has the audacity to flaunt her affair to you and your kids irregardless of your feelings. Does that indicate to you that she has one whit of caring for you at this time, and that she is going to be receptive to your efforts?

You have stated that you have gone thru this for five months now. I feel that by planning on 'romancing and winning her back' over more months thru a PLan is going to risk depleting much of the remaining love and respect you have still hold for her. I don't see much of anything in your story where you have stipulated to her the conditions for you to be willing to recincile your M - i.e, ending the affair, no contact, establishing firm boundaries, and NOT exposing your kids, who are certainly old enough to realize what is going on, to her A. A good M is partly built on pleasant memories, and there are a few ocasions during the course of a year that contribute - birthdays, anniversaries, and holidays - especially Christmas. I feel you are resigned to allowing your WW to create a void in your history by allowing her and your kids to spend this Christmas with another family, not yours w/o a fight. I don't mean a kicking screaming fight, I mean in no uncertain terms impressing on her that this violates your conditions for continuing in this M - her continuing in and flaunting the A, and not protecting your kids from the emotional distress they must be feeling. And, then you get to 'babysit' your own kids a week later when she is celebrating the new year with him. Sheesh again! So, 20 years from now when your boys are reflecting on past Christmases they will fondly recall that Christmas of 2010 was spent with mom's boyfiend and his family while dad sat home alone.

I am not trying to be harsh Wes, just that your situation does make me cringe. I don't think that you are making enough use of tools available to you: 1) consulting an attorney for frim legal advice, 2) explicitly informing your WW of conditions for her to re-enter your M (because right now she is not in it), and 3) refusing to in any way finance the A unless court-ordered. In addition, since you seem to have the funding I would urge you to contact the Harley's for advice, especially regarding swithcing to Plan B at this time.

Best wishes to you Wes....

Tom

Hello again Wes,

"She said that it would cause conflict between the OM and her however she was going to tell him and not lie any more"

I am just getting ready to prepare breakfast for the family, but I have to say I am still astounded by your wife's treatment of you. Your statement above unfortunately just signals me that she is under the impression that there are no consequeces to her. Most affair partners go thru hoops to conceal an A for obvious reasons, and most with kids DO NOT wish to expose the children to the A.

I wanted to ask if you have read others' stories here - the ones who have been successful in dealing with an affair and recovering their M? There are several, but one that comes to mind is "BTintrouble" I don't think he has posted in awhile, so you would have to look back in November or October. These people found it difficult as well to become proactive, but they did it. In addition to contacting the Harleys I would strongly urge you to review others' stories to see what they did to fight an A and to protect themselves and their families.

The best...

Tom

I will read those other story's, thanks for the links.
It is extremely hard for me, I am scared for sure and never know if I'm doing the right or wrong things. I am trying my hardest to follow the section on emotional needs and avoiding love busters. She sees this not as a affair but as a new relationship and the end of a marriage. There is no commitment on her part, none whatsoever, he came into our life's and she was gone. The reason she left was she believed I was controlling (far from the truth)so for me to stipulate conditions to return to the marriage simply reinforce this to her and pushes her further away.

I don't finance her affair in any way whatsoever. She makes very good money and is completely self sufficient. She is more than happy to spend time playing happy family with our boys the OM and his family. It is devastating.

Merry Xmas to all.

Wes, there is one part of this that I am hanging on to: I don't believe OM is interested in a ready-made family. Yes, they may all be at his family's house right now, and the kids may be on good behavior. But I think OM's patience for having instant kids is going to wear thin fairly quickly. I know it's hard for you to not have them right now, and I am so sorry for that! But I want to hope that their presence around OM will help the destruction of this A.

So its just gone midnight and its Christmas here in OZ.

She is dropping the boys to me at 11am tomorrow. Whats everybody's opinion on whether to get her to come in for a while to open the presents I have bought my boys or just greet her at the door, say thanks for the boys and not let her participate.

Generally I would always do it for the boys but its not like I got to be there when she gives them their presents.

You're in Plan A, right? Invite her in. Help her with her coat. Offer her some coffee, tea, whatever. Got any cookies handy? Offer those, as well. Show her how warm and comforting her 'real' home is.

You're ahead of the rest of the world!

Merry Christmas, Wes, to you and your boys.

Hi Wes,

I am just estimating, but I believe it must be late Christmas morning there in Australia - you are about half way around the world from Chicago USA, so, Mery Christmas to you too, and I hope that you can enjoy it to the best of your ability and with your kids. Taking a break now before making Christmas eve dinner - shrimp scampi with roasted asparagus. Then some movies for later. My wife is confined to a nursing home, so I want to make this a very enjoyable visit time for her and our son.

Just take your time right now to recharge and relax. The battle for your W can be renewed in a few days.

Best wishes,

Tom

WesH,

Merry Christmas to you and your family.

You said something that is completely wrong. You said This is just plain wrong and a lie.

Your W did not have the affair because you were/are controlling. It is her excuse and used by many WW to keep the BS off of their back and to assuage their conscience. She is having the affair because she WANTS TO. It is that simple. You are entitled and expected to state and enforce conditions on her behavior while you are in plan A. If you don't, then you have nothing to work on.

What you are controlling by your conditions are things in your life, NOT IN HER's. If she wants access to you, she meets your conditions. If she wants help from you, she meets your conditions. You can enforce your boundaries without LB'ing her. That does not mean she won't be mad that she did not get her way. She will be. Being mad does not mean you actually love busted her. This is especially true when you are enforcing your boundaries.

Do you know what your boundaries are? Have you developed a strategy and plan for enforcing them? If not, start to do so.

Plan A is doing many things for an undeserving spouse but it is not allowing the to run over your boundaries. Make plnas WesH.

God Bless,

JL

Merry Xmas to everybody.

Thank you so much to all the guys who have posted here over the past few weeks. I really can't thank you enough.

This morning I get a text from WW, it basically says "She will be coming over with OM in car to drop boys off and won't be coming in to open any Xmas presents with boys.

I am disappointed but have let this go today. Today is about my 2 boys. I have asked them what they want to do today and they said "fishing" So that's what we will do this Christmas. No pre-arranged dinners where adults just drink alcohol. Today is all about them and making them have the best day they can.

After hearing from the WW this morning I get a text from the OM.
It says "Too bad if your hurt mate". I don't respond but It is such a eye opener to see there is really some scum out there.

She has chosen him, but seeing the way he behaviors shows him for what he is.

Forward his text to her.

You're showing a lot more restraint than me.

If this begins to get too much for you - then Plan B might be better.

Merry Christmas to you and your boys!

Being passive has not helped your case at all. Tell WW unaceptable for her to bring OM around you.

Definitely agree with Road! Tell your WW that it's not ok to bring the OM around and definitely not ok for OM to text or communicate with you.

Guys, I have been angry this whole Christmas and boundaries need to now be set. I show restraint.. yes .... but another part of me wishes to act a hell of a lot different.

I am sticking to Plan A, I have been pushed down and got up again, i am resilient but new hard boundaries will be set and she will be aware that this behavior is not acceptable. I need to remember his texts to me are a constant reminder of how volatile the affair is, he see me as a threat, and i aint giving in that easy.

Looking forward to talking to you on page 100 of this thread.

If you wait for one hundred pages before you take decisive action were going to be reading how the WW is pregnant by the OM for the second time.

Hi Guys, I see my life as a yo-yo at the moment and need to make a decisive decision. Here are real basic stats. With these as the facts are we at Plan A or Plan B. Should I be at confused??

History) Together 15 years, Married 6 years, 2 boys (3.5, 6.5), normal house, mortgage, friends, stresses, bills, good times and bad

1) Affair with OM from past it was emotional then psychical. No past cheating in 15 years. She supposedly always had a connection so I hear. (blahh)

2) Shows no signs of remorse.

3) I moved out for 3 months, she continued A

4) I moved back home, she moved out, takes furniture, clothes etc he stays a day a week at her new rental. Continues A

5) OM is complete scum, does not have any morals, has abused me (even on Xmas day). Wife doesn't defend me at all.

6) Few cracks have appeared, but always been "you misinterpreted what i said" etc etc to keep romance going.

7) She is stubborn, financially independent, but doesn't have close family but OM does and it is appealing to her.

8) Left today for 6 day break without kids with OM. (I just couldn't let the boys go even though it might spoil the romance)

9) When I'm non confrontational things settle down, we talk, its nice but I read too much into it, I think she see's it as friends which i certainly don't want to be.

10) In anger has said even if it ends with him she wont come back.

11) I have given time frame of 2011, to see what can be done about this mess.

Please guys suggestions?

Time for Plan B. You have secured your rights as a father. Preserve what little feelings for your WW are there and cutoff all contact. Give her a Plan B letter and go dark.

Preserve your time with your kids and perhaps find a way to exchange them that doesn't involve interacting with your WW. Use a daycare as an exchange point.

It's not what you want to hear, but it's the next step for you to either prepare for a D or to hopefully expedite the end of the affair.

Wes H, you can take my advise for all it is worth. Plan a romantic trip for your wife. Pamper her. Prove to her that you are her husband and only you are worthy of her affection. Prove to her why you are her husband and not the OM. Don't prepare for a D. Divorce is never ever good!

sadbear, read his whole thread. Your advice might be applicable for a couple who are starting to drift apart, but Wes' WW has moved out to have more time with her OM, and won't even be in the same room with Wes long enough to watch her kids open Christmas gifts.

Divorce is very much a good solution when there is ongoing adultery. Many people choose not to stay married to cheaters and that is their prerogative. In other words, sometimes divorce is the definition of success.

Melody Lane, I disagree with calling divorce a success. I now believe that divorce is only acceptable if the spouse is beating you or threatening your life. I believe people should stay married and ask for forgiveness. If my current husband cheated on me, I would go to counseling with him and stick around as long as it takes. Divorce is such a horrible thing to go through. It really destroys a person and his or her family.

uum no, adultery destroys people and families. It is MORE abusive than physical assault or the death of a child and when a spouse will not quit this abuse, the best solution is often divorce. Yes, divorce is horrible, but adultery is much worse. So, yes, divorce is very often the definition of success.

Many people choose not to stay married to a cheater and that is their prerogative. Adulterers are not entitled to a second chance. They are only get a second chance if the betrayed spouse decides to stay in the marriage.

Actually, Dr. Harley has said infidelity is the one thing he wouldn't tolerate and would go straight to divorce. I have to agree with him on this. There's absolutely no way I'd take my wife back if she was out slinging leg. And from this my children would learn that cheating is not to be tolerated in a marriage. What others do is up to them if infidelity happens but to me, this is the one unforgivable action in a marriage.

Sadbear, how many mistresses would you forgive your husband for having? And how many times before the children start getting rewired for what a marriage means and what should be or not be tolerated in a marriage. Affairs are not some "Ooops, I spent too much money this week" or "Sorry, I didn't wash the dishes" kind of mistake.

I am sure you believe it wouldn't be a "success" since you are the cheater who was divorced by her betrayed husband. But I betcha HE considers it a success to be rid of you, though. He has moved on and is happily married, after all.

Yes, kilted thrower, I agree. Affairs are absolutely devastating and WRONG WRONG WRONG, but divorce is just so so terrible, especially the aftermath. I know all about the pain. Thank goodness, I did not have kids with my ex husband. I think divorce destroys children too. Most people I know who have divorced parents have a lot of resentment and anger towards both parents for making the decision to divorce. I would just keep trying to satisfy your spouse. Do what it takes. Change your look, lose weight, take on an interest they have, go on vacation. Keep trying and they just may fall in love with you again. Don't let the other person take what is yours!

And that is 100% your right and your prerogative. NO ONE else, especially the cheater has the right to determine what spells success for the victim. NO ONE.

Again, adultery is much more devastating and sometimes divorce is the best choice.


Adultery destroys children. When a marriage breaks up over adultery it is because of the adultery, not because of the betrayed spouse.


Not if the kids KNOW the divorce resulted from one parent's adultery. This is why children should ALWAYS be told the truth about adultery. They should be told the full truth. The crimes of the adulterer should never be whitewashed. The kids should know everything, including the name of the adultery partner. Everyone should know about the affair.

If a woman divorces her husband because he beats and rapes her, the kids don't "blame" the victim. Kids are not stupid and know where the blame lies: on the abusive parent. And adultery is about as abusive as it gets. Kids understand that very well.


You have to understand, sadbear, that a cheater is damaged goods that many BS' do not want. However, in many marriages here, we give the cheater an opportunity to earn our forgiveness and take steps to earn our love back. Cheating is a huge lovebuster that can cause a spouse to fall out of love. Cheaters are disgusting, but they can change their ways with some hard work. Just as in your case, your H fell out of love and did not want damaged goods. That is often the case.

I totally agree. Oh! We're moving to Texas in 5 years. I absolutely cannot wait. I'm the last in the family left in Oklahoma. Everyone else has moved to Arizona or Texas.

Sweet! I still have lots of folks up in Oklahoma. I may head up for a visit this Easter.

Sadbear,

You are missing something completely. His W has left him and even now on a 6 day vacation with OM, while Wes takes care of the kids.

The issue isn't whether he wants or files for divorce, she can do that and if Oz is anything like the States he has no say in the matter.

People are recommending plan B which would keep her from destroying any more of the love he may have left for her with her behavior and that of the OM. She is the one that must end the affair, and while he can be civil and has been, the big issue is whether Wes runs out of love for his W before her affair ends. If he does, there is no rebuilding the marriage, because the BS does not have enough emotional strength left to endure the rebuilding. Your exH was such a man.

Wes MUST go to plan B soon because the OM is actively harassing him and his W is actively harassing him. If this keeps up, he won't have anything left to rebuild IF the affair ends in time.

As for divorce being a success, I agree with Mel on this, but I would state it a different way. Wes may lead a successful life IF he is rid of a woman that shows no remorse for what she has done to him and her family and has actively disrespected him and allowed her OM to do so as well. The goal here is not to save every marriage, although more can be saved than people often think. The goal really is to get people to have successful relationships and that often means ending the current one with as little baggage as possible. What that means is helping Wes give his marriage every chance he can and then being able to decide if he wishes to end it knowing he did all he could do and still be able to look himself in the mirror.

Everyone has a different breaking point, or the point when the love bank is empty. You cannot blame the bank for the robber (the WS) robbing it.

Wes can be a success if he divorces her and he can be a success if the marriage is rebuilt. He cannot be a success by just taking her back. That means she and he have to have enough love left to rebuild the marriage and right now that doesn't seem to be likely, but then again that is what plan b is for. To give the unlikely a chance to happen while the BS heals, protects and learns.

Does this make sense to you?

JL

Well, not exactly.... He did not divorce me just like that. We really did try to make it work for almost a year after I had the stupid affair. I ended up moving out because of financial reasons and other issues (his continued alcohisim) etc. Maybe he did want to get rid of me though because he never changed those behaviors. I take full responsibility for what happened.

T/J Sadbear I would say that your ex did want out but wasn't ready for that move for some time. That the divorce was hard for you I don't doubt.... especially if you wished to make amends and were unable to do so. However that too is a risk we take when we cheat ... that no real chance will be provided us post affair to save our marriage. I was VERY lucky. Two things among many I have learned here.. firstly ...reluctantly I admit ... is that not all marriages can be or should be saved..... and that there is NO excuse for affairs .... if things are so bad divorce.
Read lots here SB read lots... some of it is very confronting for a FWS... but you know if you can help but ONE person survive adultery .... then it is worth the time and effort you put into learning about MB.
Wesh needs some help so lets give it too him ... just remember to read the whole thread ... yes I used to post without doing that too and the less said the better (however Mel probably thinks the longer Aussie is away the stranger I get in any event). end T/J

WesH how are you doing today? I pray your kids will give you some comfort just being with you.

Lemme know! The Beautiful One is always looking for an excuse to get out and have coffee. Maybe we could all have coffee together if ya' come up here.

Thats awesome, I will give you a shout!

Thanks Guys,

It is always great to have the kids, they can always make you smile.

The one thing that hurts the most out of this is the constant lack of "respect" for me. Even if she believes our marriage can't be saved (an it can be) what about "Respect" for me being the father, a provider, a teacher, a home dad, not to mention the new stresses place from dropping to one income - they just don't care - and they just don't see how this effects the children.

I get very resentful, she moves out, gets rent assistance, get child maintenance, get family assistance Part A&B, gets low income health care card (so basically discounted most things)
and I the BS (and I've had a kidney transplant) have to pay full price for medication, mortgage (but at least I'm at home), all bills for home and have had to take on 2nd night job to keep the house for boys when i don't have them. It is not like I'm having a holiday. I know its ranting and raving but it is very unfair.

On the last 3 occasions she has also been late with the children. On Xmas day she dropped them to me, 2 hours later than she said. No apology nothing. They talk about dealing with a alien, well this is definitely not the person I had dealt with for 15 years.

Hi Wes,

well, I hope you had a good Christmas with your boys. You haven't posted in awhile, and your last post indicated your anger and frustration over your situation. I understand, and that is okay.

A peaceful Christmas here. Very nice Christmas Eve with Char and my son and the shrimp scampi. Then our son went to his gf's and then a movie with Char and some serious cuddling and then to bed....what can I say! We even had snow overnight.

I have the feeling you are shying away from here. I know, quite a few people chiming in and you probably feel uncertain about this site. Look Wes, you need to get advice, but more importantly you need to do what is right for you and your kids at this point. I could post a lot of things about standing up for your M and how your WW is treatign you, but in the end it is up to you. You period. Maybe she is lost to you. You don't know that right now. All I know is that I would kill to protect Char. Fortunately I have not had to as yet. I did have to fight a little yesterday. She was sick on Christmas night and yesterday with stomach upset and diarreha, and so I cleaned up, bought an over-the-counter medication and brought it back to the nursing home for her when we took her back. The nurse there tried to refuse to accept it and administer it until my son and I made sure she was looking at a complaint. Talked to Char this evening and she is feeling better and the medication was administered. Well Wes, this probably means nothing to you. It is not technical or expert, but it comes from my concern for you. I am in a situation now that I can look back on my life and feel comforted that my wife is still with me with all my faults.

You need to be discriminating in who you listen to. If you are still interested and signed on here you need to listen to three people - Melody, Marital, and JustLerning. Someone like sadbear is an unfortunate distraction to you at this time. Melody will hit you over your head in terms of the expertise of MB and exposure as well. Marital is pure, and will kick you in your teeth, but then pick you up and hug you, and am not sure what Learning will do, but he seems wise.

Just good wishes,

Tom

Well, now been 4 days and wife hasn't called about the kids, just to enquirer how they are getting on. Maybe not a biggy for many, but i hate not being in my kids life everyday and she use to hate it as well.

When they become wayward, they don't care about the kids as much as they used to. This is really pretty typical. Hang in there.

She's in the thick of the fog, Wes. I'm sorry. That's where she is right now. And - here's a good thing - she's hating that. She's hating not having her kids.

sadbear,

Forgiving infidelity after it happens over and over again shows a complete lack of self respect by the betrayed.

Divorce is not easy and it sucks, but the best thing my ex wife ever did for me was leave. It hurt like he11 at the time, but she actually did me a favor and liberated me from taking care of an overgrown child with no morals.

Considering where I was 5 years ago to where I am today, divorce was a success for me.

Wesh, go to Plan B. I'm convinced now more than ever that Plan B will protect your emotions and let you think clearly while you plan your next move.

Divorce is inevitable if the spouse refuses to stop cheating. Anything else is simply self inflicted abuse.

Hi Wes,

Just chiming in to wish you a Happy New Year!

Just stay as true to your course as you can, and don't let her 'fog' or misplaced feelings get to you at this time.

Tom

Well to all my friends here at MB, a big "Happy New Year!!!" only 3 hours to go here in Perth, Australia

But... unfortunately not to much celebrating tonight.

I have taken my 2 boys down to the beach, had a picnic and we watched the sunset on the last day of the year. It was beautiful, remember it is summer over here at the moment so shorts, thongs and singlets weather.

The hard thing for me tonight however is WW has made no contact at all since Christmas, the boys have asked after her tonight. I was so tempted to send her a text but what after she did on Christmas it meant Plan B was the only option. It is horrible, but she would be expecting me to text first. AHhhhhhhh!!!

singlets?

Is that some kind of metrosexual crap?






Why can't these foreigner's speak English?

Just making sure my texts are ok with the concepts of Plan B

Well as expected the text comes this morning.

"Hey Wes, hanging out to C boys, will b there in half hr thanks"

Haven't seen or heard from her since Christmas.
I replied.

"Then back to normal schedule, I will have them 5pm Monday"

She came to the house a bit early (10 minutes later) and I was still trying to get boys things together. She came in the house (Noooo) but I didn't see her do it as i running around getting their gear together. She patted her dog for a minute just inside the house.

We didn't talk, I couldn't actually look her in the eye and she was gone. It was extremely hard for me not to talk to her after 15 years together. Did I do this right?

Does not sound like you are in plan B sorry

Plan B is...

No seeing eachother
No texts
No emails
No FB
NOTHING!

If you can't find a way to do that then you are not in plan B

So how do others implement this?

We both work and need to communicate about the children? She is a mobile hairdresser and sometimes I have been available so to speak to grab the children from around the place because of the odd hours she works.

Do i now put together a monthly roster and just stick to it and how can you enforce it? She has far more flexibility in her work than I do and has spoken about 1 week on with the children / 1 week off. I can't do this setup with the kids and my work and actually don't want to as I want to be part of there life's daily.

How do others communicate regarding the children? in Plan B

Already doing no Facebook, no email

WeSH, you need an intermediary (IM). An IM is a person who intercepts all emails, phone calls, texts, etc. from WW, and then filters out all but the pertinent facts that you absolutely must know and passes the message on to you. The IM also sends just-the-facts messages from you to WW.

That's how others do it when communication about the children is absolutely necessary.

ITA with Saph and Mulan. I also want to add that you need to even keep the communication between you and the IMs to a MINIMUM. You need to get DARK. That means NO texts. NO calls, NO emails, NO CONTACT OF ANY SORT. That even means that you can't look at her, you can't look at a picture. You will even need to stop thinking about her, but we will get you there.

Also, you do need to get this visitation straightened out. You will need to find a way to exchange the children without having ANY contact with your WW and without your WW having contact with your house or dog. She is getting a family fix when she enters that house. Don't let that happen.

You CAN do this

Guys I need to vent.
As you know I have had the boys for the last 6 days as she went on break with OM.

Tonight I get this text

"The children came in and said daddy will kill (OM name) if he comes anywhere near the house. I have been hammered all day that u r not a fit father and r doing the children damage F@#king shut ur mouth put ur children first"

I am absolutely screaming mad at this point. Please somebody give me the strength to put up with this. It really is so hurtful.

Change your number, get an IM NOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW. That's my advice.

Also, when you are talking to the kids or around the kids, think first, "What would a judge say if he heard these words on a VAR?" Then you will be safe.

Need to work something out, it's just harassment. I do like the bit however where she says she has been "hammered" (obviously by OM) all day about me being a fit father, not bad from a guy with no kids, and no idea about parenting. Unbelievable the rubbish that comes out of their mouths.

What Scotty said. Cut off this communication.

So...this guy who thinks you're unfit to parent because you're ready to kick his adulterous [censored] for screwing around with your wife? Is this the same guy who told your WW she should lock your 3 yo away in a room? Man, has HE got it turned around.

I'm just saying...

Thanks all, I just need to put it all into perspective, it is so very hard to keep a cool head when some POS tells you how to be a father and the WW believes it. I never responded, and she would be expecting it (she knows my personality)and how to push my buttons. I have more self esteem and respect for myself than to go that low.

It was just so predictable.
Anyway back to Dark Plan B

WesH, what are you going to do to correct this BREACH of Plan B? Are you taking any steps to correct this or are you going to continue to be abused by your WW?

When you enter Plan B, you need to PLAN ways around these types of things. You need to protect yourself.

Here, think about this. How MAD are you at your WW RIGHT NOW? How quickly is your LB going DOWN? How long do you think it will be before you HATE your WW? How long do you think it will be before you dont WANT to reconcile? That is ONE of the purposes of plan B, to keep your LB high enough to get through recovery.

I understand what you are saying,

I need to get a IM, but family are all a long way away and we are not very close and is it to imposing asking a friends?? All my friends have there own life and children to care for. I would feel like a burden.

As far as LB heading South, yes it is, but being here on these forums allows me a little insight into what is going on with this alien. The knowledge and feedback from these forums helps me just decipher the babble talk and keeps me moving on. I guess I won't really know what damage is done until down the track. At this moment however I still have great memories of a loving wife, this is just like dealing with a separate person.

It is fine to use a friend. I used friends. I am actually on my third IM in a year. It is because the first ones didn't get on a computer very often, the second one, while a good friend to me, doesn't like my WH and would use the IMing to impose how SHE thought he should treat her. My new IM I have GREAT faith in, although, nothing has had to pass through her yet.

I used EMAIL IMs.

You can have someone FAR away be your IM as long as they are willing to pass on EMAILS, and are able to check it at least once a day. You can go to yahoo and create an account, give them the address and password(tell them to change the password so you won't be tempted to read the emails).

How old are your children?

As far as your LB, you won't realize that your LB is gone until IT IS GONE. And then, it will be too late.

That is PART of Plan B. We are trying to help you.

Thank you Scotland, your input is great appreciated.

My beautiful boys are 3.5 yrs and 6.5 years old.

Your children are young still. You may need to have somewhere where you can do drop offs and pick ups. Is there a friend or neighbour where this can take place?

If the visitations are on a schedule, that means less IM messages. Get everything figured out today. That way, you can get into Plan B and start reaping the rewards of personal recovery.

Hi guys,

Got a message from my IM today. My wife has sent a message saying "Hey Wes, I'm going to keep the kids tonight as im on holidays and need a few extra days with them. Its only fair"

I have been in Plan B only the shortest time, and haven't made contact with her since Xmas. We have a child schedule that is setup and is easily run when we are both working but it is holidays.

Is it best for my IM to send a simple message saying its OK and allow me to stay a lot darker or fight to get the kids tonight.

I have no fear with her taking care of the kids. Their safety is fine.

Thoughts?

Did she offer to give up any of her days with them in return?

This looks to me more like she's trying to call the shots, rather than negotiate with you. Wasn't she aware of her upcoming vacation before? Why wait until tonight to tell you about it and her wanting to keep the kids?

@WesH -

It is not a matter of them being safe. It is a matter of her making decisions concerning the kids with an agreement from you beforehand. Do not let her set this precedent concerning the custody of the children.

My answer:

Hi all, I have managed to get a list of the OM facebook friends list. Can you point me in the direction of where to go for sample exposure letters that can be sent. Is it legal as well? Are there any consequences?

Thanks

Do you have a legal order established? Is there a legally binding agreement?

There is no dictating of visitation when an agreement is in place. They can only be modified through mutual agreement and not through, "I'm keeping the kids more because it is fair."

My response to her would be, through the IM, "WW, we have an agreement. Please abide by it. I do not agree with you modifying it without my consent. If you do not abide by the agreement and return the kids in accordance to the schedule I will be forced to call the police to enforce our order and will have to take you back to court. Please abide by what is written."

This is the ONLY way to deal with a fogged out and entitled wayward.

Hi Guys, just a update.

Day 12 of Plan B.

I feel like I am getting stronger and stronger by the day. I don't know if something just clicked in me but it took me 5 months to really understand I Didn't Do This, become a man.

I found good help in a few close friends that have been ringing me daily to keep me strong with Plan B. They organize outings and always prop up my self esteem when I need it.

Yesterday was fantastic, I was out with friends enjoying the beach when I didn't have the kids. We then decided to go fishing so I went home with my friend close behind (we were only going in one car and I was dropping mine at home). When i got home my wife was at the neighbors house who was having a bbq. She was out the front of the house in the passenger seat of her car on the phone. I arrive home (next door) and she open her car door (that's how I noticed her). Then 2 seconds later, my friend arrived, I jumped in his car and we were gone. It was one of those moments, she knew I wasn't waiting around at home moping.

then today....
Got through my IM this the first of her texts.

"Hey Wes, just checking u all good for the boys tonight at 5 (well cause i am that's the arrangement) Also need to organize school uniforms for both boys need what you have and school shoes (u seems to have all their shoes) Thanks. (School not back til Feb 2nd)

Response through IM
"He will be there at 5, that is the arrangement"

then got from IM from WW about 2 hours later (maybe not happy with response)

Also can you please ring HBF (health fund). I'm organizing my own health insurance and medicare and have you also done ur tax I'm waiting on rent assistance ta (Hell no I haven't and will prefer the fine from the tax department)

Told IM there is no need to respond. (I will only talk to her about kids and marriage)

So there you have it.

Also found this great post that helped me do a dark plan B.

**edit**

Wes keep the distance do not engage. Keep with your good mates and LIVE a active life. Let her stay in affairville unit and steam away.

The Rent Assistance or CRA is NOT subject to your taxable income but assessed on HER income - including any child support from you - as she has separated from you. That's just an excuse to restart & maintain her contact with you.

Request your IM to advise her to contact CentreLink in regards to the CRA if you wish to respond in any way. He does not have to advise any more.. or even that really. Even better ...She can work it out by herself.

For your info ... She has to go in and claim it. Evidence can be varied from pay slips or pension records if she is claiming Single parents etc or bank statements supporting showing deposits matching arrangement with you for child support. CentreLink will advise her on what is required. They can even put it in writing.... If any info is required from you again no direct contact is required.
My thought .. let her solve it and don't support her actions in any way.

HBF doesn't matter I would think. If she stays or does not stay on your HBF I don't think it saves you any $. Check it out for YOU though just in case you can save a few quid. Quick call to HBF help line. Keep the kids on your HBF. Tell her nothing in my opinion as she is "organizing my own health insurance and medicare" ... so let her.

Remember .. you are NOT her best buddy ... you may perhaps consider being her husband again one day .. in the right circumstances and her commitment to working with you on the M... unconditionally.

"Told IM there is no need to respond. (I will only talk to her about kids and marriage)" ... PERFECT

Stay dark.

Thanks for the reply mate.

Spoke to HBF, went in a got a printout of my statement. All paid up for another 2 months. It is a family policy and I am the primary card holder. There is no way she can take the boys of the card, as you mention she can only start her own, which will just cost her money that she doesn't have to pay.

As far as Centrelink, I spent 1 hour in a line today, trying to actually apply for Family Tax Benefit Part B, only to be told the only option to apply is now online. The less I have to do with Centrelink the better.

Cheers

A new roster for our child schedule went to my WW today and it actually did have a error on it, where my WW was in every right to complain (rightly so), but the funny thing was what she sent to the IM

"The roster is wrong. I'm not agreeing to it if my husband can't talk to me like a human being"

Yes now my behavior is in question hmmm.

I did a little bit more exposing today as I found a contact I missed out.

Sent this face book letter from a template

Quote:
Dear friend of XXXX,(full name of OM)

It grieves me to write this letter but I believe all of his friends and family should know that XXX is having an affair with my wife, (your wifes first and last name) . They started the affair in ZZZZ.

I am asking you to use your influence with XXXX to persuade him to leave my family alone.

I believe that you should know this, so you can protect your marriages from him. My wife and I have X small daughters/sons and this affair has almost wrecked our marriage.

XXX has intentionally chosen to commit adultery with my wife and is purposefully working to destroy our family and marriage.

I would be happy to provide the evidence to anyone who asks.

I would appreciate it if someone would notify his parents and ask them to call me at xxx-yyy-zzz

Thank you,

Your name



Well.. got this response from a friend of the OM family.

Wesley this is huge.. don't you think sorting this out with your wife is best. It is a very damaging thing..Also if it is true, we are all looking for love,, and if you wife is doing this.... then what were you doing? Were you a bad husband, why did you send this email. I will contacting others about this.

Not sure how to take it.

You take it as Wes 1, Affair 0! That was a direct hit, Wes!

I know what you're doing. You're reading the garbage about how we're all looking for love, blah blah blah. Don't look at that part! This stranger's moral stance and questioning judgment of your marital skills is immaterial! He is NO ONE to you except a target.

The part you need to look at is the part I highlighted in bold. He's going to do some work for you in exposing the A! Well done! Good target!

And of course you will not respond to this stranger to engage him in a debate regarding your marital strengths or weaknesses. Your work with him is done.

Tonight's updates. 2 text

1) "R U Going to talk to me"

2) "Please don't force my hand into having to get a lawyer"

Response from me - No Response, Zip, Not a Word

Excellent! Don't respond. She's going to try to break you. Don't let her. Stick to your guns.

OOOOOO, she's going to get a lawyer if you don't talk to her!!! ::::shuddering::::


Whatever. Silence is golden, Wes.

How are YOU Wes?

Hope you are doing as well as you can be in the circumstances.

Don't worry about a "lawyer' I mean so what!! Family court makes decisions not a 'lawyer' .

Please ensure you have records of her emails. If you have to actually speak to her ... if you are unexpectedly cornered have a recording device with you ... go to D i c k Smiths etc get one. Keep it on you. Your WW behaviour is very erratic ..I know because I once was the same. It's better to be able to ensure you cannot be accused of anything.

Let her know you will NOT be friends post D or full separation by staying DARK!! She needs to understand how it will be in the future.

Wes expect such replies from friends. They do not KNOW how to react to adultery... they are used to people 'moving on' and other such crappy behaviour from TV and others around them.. they are NOT used to people actively fighting for a M in these circumstances.

Thanks Aussiewife,

Been a little down today as I was strong with her trying to make contact with my IM and it made me feel like I was in some type of control, but now she hasn't made contact to the IM and I guess that is OK, im guessing she is just putting her foot down again, and saying you won't do this too me.

We are coming up to more interesting times now as work has started again and school for the kids is not to far off.It at times is hard to believe that better marriages can't be built from these times.

So I keep moving on... but thoughts of her are not far behind.

Just got a message from IM

"Sorry no children tonight as I have just got them bk and it's not fair"

Ahhhhh She drives me nuts... Damn loving WW's

Yes Wes I don't doubt you think of your WIFE.. the one you married. But remember right now she is NOT this woman. It has been said very often here that a WS is an 'alien' its as if "someone" has taken over her or him as the case may be.

It seemed that way to my family with me... What happens Wes is that you become very selfish and feel entitled to do whatever you want without regard to anyone else... even your own kids.

Its all ME ME ME ME ME and EVERYTHING is your husbands fault... and you really have convinced yourself this is the case... you could show police video for instance that I crashed my car and I would think.. be totally convinced ... that you video edited it because YOU are responsible for the crash.. you are at fault for all the things that have gone wrong in her life.
That's the twisted thinking. She changes history to suit her own desires and selfish wants.

You cannot argue with her or reason with her... you have to let her fall to the bottom....

Is your M recoverable? .. yes it is .... both of you would need to commit to the recovery.

Better marriages? I'm not sure that is always so... but marriages with renewed love and far more communication and commitment to work on it with your partner... yes its possible. It is a joy. But oh how I wish I knew MB way before I hurt my husband and family and ... myself.

you will be tempted to want her to contact ... resist that... she may be in a "I'll show HIM no communication" mood ... but that won't last ... she'll try to provoke you again soon.

So take care... keep having fun with the kids .... slap the sunscreen on.... shirt.... have a swim .. BBQ at night out the back.... or fish & chips at evening with the kids on the beach .... or dare I say it .. Maccas with them

not every day .. just something for the kids to look forward to with you... Dad time.

I have taken a walk around the house, cooled off a little and got my gear on to go to the gym.

Selfish... Yes, I mean she leaves it 5 minutes before the kids are suppose to be dropped off.

My question is this. At first I was tempt to send a "No You Don't" message through IM but although it is indirect isn't it just another form of contact, is it better that I stay dark and don't respond at all?

Also is it best to ring Child Support about her holding the kids from me with a roster in place. Will this been seen as a big Lover Buster even though its warranted.

Thanks for all the responses.

I'm not up on Australian CS law, but if you're supposed to have the kids and she isn't bringing them to you, isn't she in some form of contempt? Is there some legal remedy for her refusal to do this?

You take it that he is going to do some of your work for you.

Wes, the point of exposure is to EXPOSE. It isn't to seek absolution, blessing, moral approval or anything like that. It is to EXPOSE THE AFFAIR to people who may be in a position to influence the adulterers into ending it.

What this guy thinks about your methods of trying to save your M or about the human condition of seeking love is immaterial.

Wes while not wanting to promote that you become petty.. I mean its about the kids.. BUT as I understand it you have a legal child custody arrangement don't you?


I will say upfront I feel she is provoking you aside from anything else !!!! the following is if its for more than just tonight.

if there is an legal agreement which sets out days I would INSIST she return the kids or you will consider seeking legal redress. of course via IM again.

It was HER choice to go with POSOM and leave the kids.... you do not need to change to suit her ... remember what I said about entitlement?

My thinking is this .... She went to have a disgusting few days with the OM and had you "babysit" .... now my advice may depend on how this was arranged...
IF you agreed to swap the days to allow for this then ok you are stuck with it ... don't do it again though you do not want to make her adultery easy.

IF on the other hand it was her just simply saying to you to look after them & she took off ... then I would suggest you INSIST on the LEGAL arrangement and tell her bluntly you are NOT going to swap and change your days with the kids to fit in and support her adulterous affair with POSOM ... Yes it can come via your IM to her but I feel you should be polite, blunt but firm and use words similar as above. Do not soften her cheating. YOU DO NOT SUPPORT HER ADULTERY IN ANY WAY.

Not abusive just blunt.. firm.

If she wants to argue then BEFORE you reply via the IM other than similar to above ... ring your solicitor state what you want to do and likelihood of success if it went to a hearing ... THEN once you have the advice let her know its going to court to decide on her breaching the arrangement if you get the ok. Remember you may not need to actually do this I suggest she is just being a beach right now. sorry Wes her using the kids makes me angry

ALTERNATIVELY .... if its not spelled out in the arrangements which specific days they are with you & her but only 50 / 50 ... then when the kids come back to you then INCLUDE in her days the days she was away with POSOM and they stay with you until that time is up .... again not letting her get away with you being her babysitter while she is having the affair .... my only concern is that the non legal alternative may result in silly tit for tat ... not good for the kids.

I would wait until tomorrow and then ring solicitor in any event to know your options.

Sorry Wes her using the kids just sucks.

I don't want to push the legal aspects of this as I did have the children longer when she went away with the OM. I believe she is simply trying hard to gain some control again and Plan B is really ticking her off. She got me fired up and she knew it would but the response she still got was Nothing. I will just make sure this doesn't become a habit.

As im in the earlier stages of Plan B (3rd week), I think contact would probably undo more good than has been done so far. So im sticking to my guns.

Yes to use the kids is wrong... but then again isn't the whole A

Wes with the legal system not surprised you don't want to go that way except if situation goes really downhill.

Wes just be sure it does not become a habit. Yes you got more time with the kids which was great... however it was at the cost of allowing her to use that extra time without the kids to have affair time. Its not a good practice unless you no longer wish to reconcile and it now does not matter to you... in which case yes take as much time as possible.

If you want to wreck the affair you need to rock the love boat.

I do understand the reality of having the kids with you... however think on this .... say you had to travel for work for those days when she was away with POSOM ... so you could not take the kids ... what do you think THAT would have done for any lovey dovey affair time ????

see where I am coming from here???

POSOM wants to whisk WW away for (yuck) romantic mini holiday ...and she says no I have the kids maybe next time you come back from the mines .... I'm guessing POSOM will start losing some interest eventually & go elsewhere.

you don't want inconvenience you want bloody heII damn it all for POSOM.

was she wanting to push your buttons??? oh yes Wes ... good on you not biting.

now some professional advice for you from a major player in Child parenting time ... we dont have child custody in the usual sense in Australia... we have parenting time and child living with .... subtle but important differences under law

The issues involved in custody conflicts are often emotionally charged..... document your time with children and note the following ...
Make Your Home Your Child�s Home
Encourage Healthy Relationships
Be Prompt, Yet Flexible, with Parenting Time Exchanges
imperative that you engage in meaningful activities and are intentional with your time
Don�t Confuse Child Support with Parenting Time
keep to the parenting plan
....I�ve covered only a few of the common mistakes I�ve seen clients make in my extensive family law litigation experience. When custody issues arise, it is essential that you carefully and consistently document events for future use in your case.


every email copy paste to a log .... ditto to any verbal discussions ... into the log .. date & time. A pain but may help if it goes down the drain. But lets hope we can help you save it if that is what you want.

Wrong!

It was her choice to give up time to go with the OM.
Call the cops and have your legal agreement enforced.

ITA with The Road. Any time she's supposed to have the kids and gives up that time is HER problem and YOUR bonus. It shouldn't affect the agreement you have with her.

I don't know about Australia, but here in the States you can call the police, show them the court order, and have them pick up your kids to enforce the order.

They can't do anything unless there is a court order.

If you and your WW have an unofficial arrangement, then there is nothing to enforce.

If it is officially ordered, however, the cops can enforce it and she can be brought up on contempt charges.

Real hard day today guys, haven't heard from WW in a while and it is damn hard. I'm in Plan B, been so tempted to call her but I haven't and need to keep it under control. Worst thing is I work as a sales rep on the road and some of those songs on the radio can just hit you hard.

I hope one day the "fog" may lift for just a while, enough for her to see the great things in our marriage and our life. Still 5 months in she hasn't pushed for the sale of the house, I guess that is a good thing as I would hate her to make decisions based on emotion rather than some logic.

I'm still hanging in there.

Well, my WW came over to drop boys off and the oldest got out came inside but the youngest stayed in car and wouldn't come inside (he is only 3.5 yrs old). Normal I don't speak to her and she leaves,

So i was trapped by my WW, I think i jinked myself with the above comment. She said "I think we have to do something with the finances" (meaning house) I simply replied "I don't want to talk about it"

and then she said

"Can you please leave the OM alone"

and I simply said

"let me make this clear, if you ever expect me to accept him it aint ever going to happen, you and I will never be friends" then I walk off with my youngest child.

So do I keep hassling the OM, or let it fail itself?
I don't want to make any decisions regarding the house and need to see if she can force me into it. (Although she has 4 months left on her rental)

Suggestions?

and now im probably sounding like a bitter, angry man

but these A's are so so destructive.

The reality is I might lose my house after working hard with her for it for years, building dreams for the children and making it a home, just to have OM come into my life, meet a few EN's and that is that.

I will fight for my marriage...

but it is TORTURE.. everyday it is another hill, you get over it just to find another. It is emotionally draining and the outcome uncertain. Lord give me the strength, and give the OM hell.

Wes.... I've been reading your thread and I know how hard it is....

But you are doing the right thing. Your kids and you will look back on this and be proud of how you acted. You can't control what she chooses to throw away; all you can do is control how you react to it.

Living well is the best revenge. That's what you're doing. She will feel that keenly in the years to come if she doesn't come to her senses.

Stay strong.....

You are not in plan B there is still direct contact.

As to leave the OM alone a better response (being you allowed NC to be broken)would be what am I doing to OM?

IF WW would complain about exposure, then state why is the OM upset with exposure all I'm doing is telling the truth.

Why is the OM embarassed by the truth?

Is it because the OM is daing a married woman an embarassment for people to find out?

All the OM has to do to stop being embarassed to stop his embarssing actions such as have affairs with married women.

You need a neutral 3rd party to hande drop offs to not break NC. Do you have parents or close friend that can do this?

Thanks Guys

I'm really doing the best I can to remain as Dark as I can but I don't have friends ore family in the near vicinity. I am definitely not texting, no calling and until as absolute little contact as possible. I wont allow her in the house and literally close the door on her.

The problem is I am working a additional job now to just keep on top of the bills, and can't afford to put the kids in any additional care where avoiding her contact with a daycare/after hour care is available.

I have also chosen a roster with the kids that is difficult to avoid some form of contact.
I have the kids on a Monday / Wednesday / Friday / Saturday one week and Monday / Wednesday / Saturday another, so she is always around.
I don't want to just be the weekend dad and want to be there during the week. I want to be part of there schooling and everyday life. So many people just recommend just seeing them every second weekend but there is no way this is going to happen full stop.

Wes, you KNOW that you are NOT in Plan B right? ANY contact that does NOT go through the IMs shows that your Plan B means NOTHING. And if you were in a true Plan B, you aren't even supposed to deal with OM either. You need to let them destroy themselves.

You need to have a solid PLAN BEFORE you enter Plan B. You need to iron out all of the details. It isn't too late to do that NOW, so get planning. Have it done TODAY. How are you going to fi this break in Plan B. How are you going to patch up this giant hole in your Plan B curtain?

Mate, I sitting here tonight just broken, with very little strength. It is hard to be strong when the affair drowns you in debt, pushes you to your limits, breaks you over and over. I don't have the solutions at the moment, i know i need them but don't have people here to just pick me up and dust me off. I feel defeated..

But you have people HERE. Draw on our strength. Find the solutions and understand that we have all been where you are. We are all better for having done what we have done. Following these plans is what will get you feeling better. I am CERTAIN that you don't want to be in this pain forever.

Strength in the face of an easy life is, well, EASY. It takes true strength to move forward when you are in the face of adversity. You will be truly amazed and proud of yourself.

So draw on our strength, and get that brain moving. I know you don't want to right now, but once you get safely placed in a true Plan B, you will feel better than you have in a LONGGGG time. take it from someone who knows from personal experience.

Wes, I'm speaking out of turn, here, since I never had to go through a Plan B. But everything I've read on this site tells me that part of the reason you are so down right now is because you've broken your own Plan B.

Please listen to Scotty - she's a master at Plan B. (Sorry, Scot, I refuse to use the word 'mistress.' )

Wes,
So sorry for everything you are going through. Plan B is very difficult emotionally for spouse. Plan B is to protect you but while you still see her you will not be protected against her and the drama in her life. Focus on being the soft place for your boys to fall - they will always remember that. My pastor said what hurts waywards is what they don't see. She doesn't see the devastation she is causing but be assured it will come back to bite her in the as... My FWH had to deal with his angry kids - he had to repair the damage - not me.

Gg

Well my wife came around this morning to pick up the boys, i had barely slept and last night was a real downer for me.
I know I have broken Plan B, and didn't have it foolproof enough.

We spoke for a while, she knows how much I care and once again she spoke about finances. She had been given lots of advice from her girlfriends about it. I just hate it when so called friends decide to get involved and put there 2 bobs worth in.

She actually told me that she is only seeing the OM once a week as he works away and still did the "I don't love you anymore line again" and the "i don't know if i ever loved you line" ouch that one hurts. She actually also mentioned that she is enjoying being on her own so that is a worrying sign.

So I have a meeting with 2 of my friends today today to get Plan B sorted out once and for all. I didn't like the hurt again last night and I still know when I see her how much I adore her and want our marriage. I still hope Plan B can have a secondary impact and let her see what shes missing but I ain't to confident. Time will tell.

Hopefully by the end of today I will have this sorted out once and for all.

Why don't you just stand in front of her and let her throw daggers. NO CONTACT WITH HER IS TO PROTECT YOU from her nonense!

G

Stop talking to her.

What would happen?

If she wants marital assets, then let her choose to do it a legal way.

Stop talking to her.

Today I have a meeting with friends to help out, it ends today just got to get it all organized.

Hello Wes, and greetings from the other side of the planet with some snow now after yesterday's snowfall..

I wanted to mention that I believe someone here had stated on another person's thread that they would be willing to act as a temporary IM via email. I don't recall who it was and I can't swear by it, but that is what I recall. It was in regard to another poster who was having difficulty getting an IM. Perhaps if that is true it would help until you lined up an IM where you are. If I am incorrect in this, then it just is another so-called 'senior moments'!

Anyway, it just causes me to wince on your behalf as I am sure it does others here when your WW takes advantage of each encounter to cause you pain just because she can.

Take care....

Tom

Wes, please! For your own sake, zip up Plan B and stop allowing her to abuse you this way!

Well have organised 2 friends to help me out with being around for the children and they were accomadating. they are both mutual friends of my wife and I but have not be close to her since D day. Can I use there relationship in anyway when they are talking with her. We use to all have such a good time.

Also you will be proud I finally changed my mobile phone number, if ever she rings now she will just "this number is disconnected"

Good job changing your number.

What is the plan for exchanging the children? Is it going to be done somewhere else? Is someone else going to be there to exhange the kids?

As far as finances, have you consulted an attorney? Do you know what you are entitled to legally?

Plan B is meant to protect you. It should NOT be entered into to get ANY reaction from your WW. It MAY have that outcome, but by the time you are in it, you won't care about that as much.

Once you get completely dark, let yourself grieve. Then, you will need to get yourself out and living life WITHOUT your WW.

You can do this. You will feel so much better once you have been dark for a while.

I have arranged for the children to be dropped and picked up from the family home as per normal. I however won't be there during these exchanges and will just have friends there for that.

As far as taking care of the financials, I am finding it very difficult. I am not over my Marriage and want to fight for it as long as I possibly can. I know by looking at the finances there is a certain degree of reality which I am emotionally not ready to face at the moment, even though I know the possiblities are very real and scary.

Im hoping with Plan B to give myself time to heal and give my wife time to ponder. Financial decisions based on emotions can be dangerous and I'm not ready to make any yet. Just where i'm at I guess.

Okay, but one thing: don't allow her to enter the house. She waits in the car and the kids go out to her, okay?

Is it still Plan B if I were in the home and she would drop the kids out the front without seeing me, or is her just knowing im there still a problem - just curious.

You are courting a Plan B break by being there. I'm not even wild about her being on marital property in the first place.

Thanks Maritalbliss,

Thats what I thought just needed it confirmed. Im just worried about how long friends may be willing to help out for as it does come quite time consuming for them and i don't want to disrupt their family lives too much, but they do understand how important this is.

Let's take just one bite of the elephant at a time, okay? Let's see how this works with your friends. If it's not working, let's figure something else out.

Tell your friends they are aces with your other friends here, for helping you with this!

Well first proper exchange of boys today with IM at my house and I went to do some food shopping. I gave him specific instructions not to let her in the house and she didn't come in.

It was a big ask as he is a mutual friend, he had dinner with her last night (first time they had been in contact in months and said the mood was a bit awkward. He let me know that she is now seeing the OM only once a week and the other time she is "finding herself"

So there it is, my number is changed, she can't contact me and wont see me for a long while. At times I feel this might be the wrong approach but I believe in the MB principles and today, although I miss my wife I wasn't a emotional wreck.

I will just need to stay strong and see what becomes of this mess.

Hi WesH,

This is the time for faith in what you are doing, it takes time, stay strong, keep working on yourself and stay busy.......
Take this time really enjoy your kids and family.......
Go out with friends.....
I find when something is difficult in your life if you just say "YES" to everything then life gets more interesting and full of new things..........

This is not plan B. IM is not to tell you about her comings and goings, or her about yours.

Pass this instruction on to your IM. Hearing about WW is contact, not NC.

Let your IM know that you do not want to hear about your WW's travails. All he is to report to you is when she has ended the relationship with OM and is ready to come home to recover your M.

It was my fault. I sort of plugged my IM for info, he said nothing but that also says everything.

I'm finding Plan B hard, I know it is not to save my marriage but to give me time to heal from constant betrayal but I have to wonder...

If she is only seeing the OM once a week, there is a real possibilty that she just wanted out of the marriage. I'm struggling with the fact that she might simply never want to discuss it or get councilling. I don't think even with time I would be able to overcome this.

Plan B is working at keeping my emotions under control, and I am doing the absolute best to get on with it, but seeing my kids, living in my family home, and remembering all the dreams we had makes it process hard and makes the ability to see the future with any hope almost impossible.

5 months later she has never said sorry or indicated anythink to give me any hope. Hard to believe 15 years can be over like that.

Sorry just having a hard day.

This is why you need to be dark in Plan B. You're speculating about what you've heard. It's not healthy for you.

Here are my two bits, Wes: she's lying. You can't know what the truth is with a wayward unless you see it with your own eyes. This is another reason why you want to stay dark in Plan B.

Got a message from my IM today from the WW regarding the children. I have them tonight and then she has them tomorrow. She sent the IM a message saying "can I drop the kids off to her house". I have said to the IM the message is "no" (remembering she never wanted me to go to her house, the OM didn't want me to know where she lived)

Even though i have sent a Plan B letter I am always concerned this paints me as arrogant or hard to get along with.

I have arranged for the boys to be dropped at a friends house and then for her to pick them up. It is very hard, it feels like a love buster I am doing. Is what I'm doing correct.

It is hard also on the kids going all over the place.
How also will I know if she is continuing a affair, when it is over or just wants out of the marriage.

Of course you are doing the right thing by not dropping the kids off. You need to protect yourself right now and controlling the drop offs and pick ups is important for you. Don't think about how it is or isn;t going to effect your WW. You do things because they go along with YOUR plans and for no other reason. It doesn;t matter if your WW will be happy about something you do or if her head will spin like a top, you need to follow YOUR plan.

What is hard for your kids is that their family isn't together. BUT that isn't YOUR fault. Your WW's affair is what is harmful to your children and what you are doing is teaching them about boundaries and love. These are lessons that your children WILL learn from the way you have been acting during this time and in the future.

Got message from IM today.

I got the kids off early to a friend of mine. My WW sent to my IM

"please thank Wesley as the boys were dressed beautifully this morning"

He passed this message on to me but don't know whether he should have as obviously I read too much into it... but im in Dark Plan B its now been 8 days with no contact with me, no text, no calls, no even seeing her.

My emotions even in this short time frame are better but damn I think about her a lot. Anyway off to the gym for ME.

Your IM needs to weed these messages out so they never get to you.

He also needs to tell WW that he won't be passing on any messages to you unless it is to inform you that WW has left OM and wishes to speak with you about recovering your M.

(But I'll tell you: that's nice that you're taking great care of the boys, Wes!)

Well weekend is here again in Australia, and I have the boys tonight, tomorrow and Sunday, but I just had that overwhelming longing for my wife that comes over me. I know I can't call or be in touch with her in anyway and she needs to be the one to recommit to the marriage. It is soooo hard just to have blind faith, but I haven't broken Plan B in anyway and are now following it by the book.

I agree. As sargent friday said, just the facts mam.

@WesH -

There is no blind faith. You are putting your expectations into one of the two possible outcomes of a Plan B. You will recover your marriage. The other outcome is divorce.

The purpose of Plan B is for you to save the $LB balance that you have for your WS in the event that you can recover. IMHO, it would be horrible that you go through all this and then when WS is ready to come back you don't have anything in your $LB for WS.

If you continue to rely on the expectation that you will recover, then when the expectations aren't being met, you will start making withdrawals from your $LB.

An affair causes enormous damage to an BS's mental health. How are you healing? Plan B removes you from the drama of the affair.

Drop the expectations. Keeping them will only put you into a position where you will be unable to Recover your marriage.

Guys need advice on two things.

Got a invite for a birthday party for one of our children.It is addressed to both my boys Mum and Dad (so entire family). This has been delivered to the family house so my WW won't know about it.

Do i just dress the boys and take them and don't let WW know about the party. (just checking as i think this is right for plan B)and let her hear about it later from the boys?

and also...

How do you deal with a WW that drops kids of hour late here, half hour here and has no respect to schedules. Do you make a big issue of this? or let it slide to keep contact really to a minimum. I guess this is typical wayward behavior. So frustrating.

Use the IM to say to WW that you received an invite and would be taking them through. In the same note write a reminder of the times and reiterate that out of respect for the IM's she should keep to the agreed times.

You have set boundaries so long as you are polite and refer to the schedule times she cannot say much untoward.

Well it turns out she wasn't just late again tonight. She has decided it was OK for the son to have a sleep over at his friends house (on my scheduled night with the kids). My IM informed me that he hadn't read the message properly and forgot to mention the sleepover bit. Not much I can do about it now but have once again requested her to stick to the schedule days we have in place.

However... this was still my night with the kids

I don't know if she does this intentionally to just provoke me or whether she just doesn't think. Damn those aliens.

If you are in plan B why are you telling WW about invitations? That's a big no no.

Tell IM that future requests by WW to change schedule are to be responded with delay to tell WW, NO!

Guys i have stuffed up big time... why why why did i do this.... why why why have i undone all my hard work.

My IM came over last night and has been have a few problems with his wife as well and i felt absolutely terrible for him, because i felt so bad i communcated with my WW to give him a break....

and have i learnt my lesson....

She is not the person i remember.

She was hurtful, horrible and outright nasty. I know once again my love account for her has gone down again.

I am such a idiot. I haven't listen to the vets, i did it my way, i need some 2x4's
She continues to play by her rules, hold the children, and manipulate me. Now where to?

WesH,

First stop is your lawyers to force her to live up to the legal agreements and time schedules. You are not going to fix her, so make sure you get your life fixed and that means having your children when you are supposed to with NO EXCUSES.

God Bless,

JL

Darn it, Wes. She's being a tool with your IM because she's not in control! Stop giving her that control!

I'm going to come over there and shake you in a minute...

Well here it comes.. why is exposure so important, why is stopping the affair so important.

My WW is now happily pregnant.

Couldn't be more heartbroken at this moment.

You said she is happily pregnant , while this does not remove the hurt or pain she is imposing on you review the following: she is still married to you, her affair man is home one day a week, where does happily come into it, wait till baby comes how happy will she be then.

I am sorry to hear this has happened to you.

Take this time to decide what you want, in the interim you enforce the scheduled arrangement of child visitations. You can only feel sad for her as I suspect this is not a planned pregnancy and the penny will drop, even in her affair world she will never trust the OM.

Keep to the high ground and Plan B, this is designed to protect you, fight for every moment of your children, if your children ask do not lie, tell them you and their mother are married and she cheating with the OM. Always tell your children the truth.

Wes I am so sorry to hear this about your WW.

You should now take some time to decide what YOU wish to do and what you need to consider.

Sadly Australian family law will allow the OM rights and access regardless of the wishes or even future wishes of your WW and yourself. It is something you will now have to take into account when you consider your future.

I can only advise that you take YOUR time and keep NC in firm place no matter what before you action any decision.

Oh, Wes. I don't even know what to say to this. I'm so sorry.

Remember the boys, friend. You'll be okay. I know it doesn't seem that way right now.

Am I Psychic, psycho or both?

Today is 30 days later.

I'm working on the mega million dollar numbers for February 25. Hope I figure them out in time to share with you all Mber's.

You were right TheRoad, but this was no lottery and there were only losers. What can i say.

That you will stop dragging your feet and follow the advice of the long time pro's here.

Cant see any happening now here... i appreciated all the help everybody gave.

Just about to log out but had to say this.

Your WW could still of gotten knocked up by the OM even if you did everything the right way without any delay, foot dragging.

The thing is instead of fighting with the best odds possible for you to recover your marriage your actions gave the OM the best odds to beat you and take your WW.

Whether or not who wins now who knows?

The thing is if you get your WW back know you will be getting an OC back with her.

A 2 for 1 sale.

Well MB can still help you recover but, as before MB only helps improve one's odd of success not guarantee success.

No BH wants an OC, but many have accepted the OC as a part of their family.

WesH,

I am so sorry and so mad...at you, more at your WW, and at the OM.

But, my anger is going to turn to you if you don't get your butt in gear and start acting like a father and a man.

Enforce the visitation with your children, no excuses, no nothing, Get the law involved. You need to stand up and start taking control of your life and not let your WW control it.

That means you are a good father to your children, that means you see them as much or more than you have been allotted. That means you go to work on YOUR life and where YOU want to be in it. It does not mean you allow your WW to have much say in it.

IF and WHEN she wakes up she will realize the mistakes she has made and the pain she has caused. My bet is OM doesn't want to be a full time daddy. My bet is OM will get real tired of your W harping at him to be home more to help take care of his child. My bet is that you will get to make some hard choices.

Here is what I do know. YOU are in no way strong enough, good enough, or prepared enough to make the hard decisions that are coming. You are way to weak on your boundaries, you are way too weak in knowing right from wrong, you are way too weak right now to be a good father to your children much less an OC.

Your job and I mean right now is to get your life straight. Get your mind straight, your morals straight, and you backbone back in place. Frankly, you should be ready and willing to walk away from her and the mess she has made. Until you are you will NOT be ready to be strong enough to remain with her IF YOU CHOSE TO DO SO.

Young man, it is gut check time. You have many OPPORTUNITIES in front of you and frankly you are not prepared to use any of them.

Reverse the cranial transplant, look at your life, look at your values, your morals, and the DATA before you. And become a man that can be strong enough to make the right decisions.

To date, you have failed to do that over and over, and in your paralysis, you have failed your family, yourself, and yes your W.

Am I being clear enough for you? Get it together, you are going to have some hard decisions to make and you do have some time to make them. She won't figure what a mess she is in for at least a week and perhaps not until the baby arrives. Prepare yourself Wes, please.

God Bless,

jL

Thank you JustLearn,

I will take it all on board.
As you pointed out I am aware of my weakness and strengths, priorities will now change and the focus is just on the boys and myself. It truely is a big mess.

Wes.

Wes I suspect you will be required to sooner rather than later to make a firm decision on your WW. Listen to JL on that.

I spoke to a friend of ours who runs some FIFO operations in North WA and his info is that these guys relationships are divided into about 45% with solid long term relationships or marriages (and some of those fail) and 55% who continuously crash and burn relationships between 6 and 18 months. There is I suspect way too much $$$ and way too many temptations.

I would further suspect he'll run when its no longer "fun" ... for him. He'll want to fly in.. have fun and get blasted ... not rub swollen feet... listen to oh my back and so on ... let alone the kids wanting mummy's attention.
Its doomed is my guess.

It is a players lifestyle for many and the OM is definitely a player.

get yourself up and moving... read JL's post ... again... get YOU right. Then when YOU have got yourself together ... determined and strong enough for whatever .... YOU decide your future instead of allowing your WW to dictate and manipulate.

Do not be surprised if WW's fantasy crashes sooner than you think. YOUR job is to ensure your kids and you are ok.. in good spirits.. stable as possible... and loving.

Your WW? it is a wait and see. YOU get to decide what YOU want ... but I would recommend you do what JL has suggested before you DO or DECIDE anything in regards to her.

I do not think you are ready to make any such decision right now... the emotions are still running wild and so is the pain and hurt. Wes get yourself off the ground... shake the dust off... begin recovery of YOU. JL is a pretty smart fella in these circumstances .. in doubt of what or how .. ask!!

again I am sorry it has come to this. but it is now what you need to deal with.
take care

With your WW now pregnant by the OM this affair will last another 9 months to a year before WW realizes that the OM can't be a good dad and husband and what she is going to lose by divorcing.

Once again guys thankyou so much for your support during my hard times.

My WW managed to get my new mobile number and sen t me a nice text

"If you damage the boys anymore psychologically, i wont be so nice. Do not bad mouth me or OM"

So there is the WW rubbish mouth at it again - it is sad to see a wife and my best friend go from a loving caring person to somebody on a path of self destruction.

I have had the weekend to put a few thoughts in place. I have made a appointment to go and see my broker and I am going to buy my family home. It was something I never wanted to do as my WW will be getting a significant amount of money and unfortunately it will help her financially with the affair. My reasons for this are simple. At this moment she is happy with a 50/50 split of assets. If it was to go to court the split would probably be more likely 60/40 or 65/35. If this happens i would be unable to afford the family home.

I know i could probably get a small home but moving back there has been good for me. Yes there has been some memories that flood back from time to time but overall i am so much happier here than when i was in the remtal for 4 months. It will definately help my mental health.

My IM has worked overtime with rosters, arrangements and has done everything possible for me to avoid her at all costs and give me some peace.

I feel there is a difference now with a Plan B, when i still wanted her to make contact and Plan B now, where really i don't. Does this mean my Love balance has expired....??? Im not sure, my feelings now for her are more a sadness towards her and the life she is pursuing. I always have hope, it is just part of my personality.

Once again thanks so much for all the comments.

if she sent you a message on your new mob number you have hers now.... BLOCK IT RIGHT NOW... at the very least by opening it and reading the message you are breaking Plan B and yes you are loosing all in the LB every time ... and its not good for you even if you now want a D.

Keep away from her madness for YOUR mental health Wes.

Let her sink because she will sooner or later.

Remember.. YOU and the KIDS. They need one stable parent at the least.

Just BLOCK HER NUMBER if your software allows it .. if not possible then recognise the number and CHECK before opening all of your mail....if hers DELETE do not read. If worried about missing an import message re the kids fwd to your mate without reading it.

Don't torture yourself Wes.

I would reiterate to anyone who has your number that you do not wish your WW to have it. She didn't just trip over that number coming out of the shower.

It is more than just your personality. Hope gives you the strength of character that will allow you to make the best decisions for your marriage, yourself, and your children.


She is reduced to threats. This is the mindset of a bully. I assume you told the children about the A. Now it would seem that they are now causing conflict within the A.

Hi guys feeling a little weak tonight and need to ask a few questions.

I have had my boys 3 nights straight and it has been bliss, just a happy house, lots of laughing, playing and cuddles all round, but tonight both my boys said "when are we going back to mums", I simply explained tomorrow morning and they were all OK and settled.

but.. the comment threw me off guard again. My natural reaction was to want to text my WW and let her know the boys were missing her. I suppose to a degree I also want some peace and sanity in this mess. I am in Plan B, I know the rules, but man it is hard.

Does a WW ever stop hating the BS and want to even be civil?

How on earth are we to bring up 2 beautiful boys with no communication. I know the best thing is to keep away from the madness for my own well being (and it works) but what about boys?

How long have people ever done Plan B, and does it eventually do more harm than good. I just wonder long term how to ever work with these child schedules when they don't allow flexibility in them.

Can Plan B have a negative effect in that if ever a WW/WH ever comes out of the fog, do they then see the BS as distant and not willing to ever work on the marriage and have given up even though the plan b letter said otherwise?

I also keep having these thoughts that the WW and the OM will live a life of happiness and joy and it is hard to get out of my head. Surely the odds aren't good?

I'm just curious about these as my WW is now pregnant and my situation will be long and hard. I have listened to all the advice and put it into place. I'm working hard on structure for my boys so they know what happens when they are with Dad.

Thanks Guys.

I have just dropped my boys off this morning and just watched them to my WW door. It has become impossible with my work commitments to use IM all the time, sometimes I'm dropping my boys to the WW at 7am and its just impossible to get a IM to do it or get them to before school care .

We have put a new roster in place with me having the boys for 4 nights on week and 3 nights the following. It is a roster i'm happy with as we both get the boys a decent amount of time each.

She has tried to text me again this morning but I have deleted it straight away.

@WesH -

Darker!

You've been focusing on the fn miserable situation your in. I truly sympathize with you. As you know you've been dealt a [censored] hand. It's not the cards you've been dealt, but how you played your hand. This is what your showing your children. Be proud!

What are some of the specific positives for you? On a personal level?

I do have some positives that have come from this and positives in my life,

I have a great job (best Ive ever had), that pays well, allows me to be my own boss, has somewhat flexible hours, a company car, a company phone, a company computer and internet and a expense account.

I have wonderful friends that have supported me and that I am eteranlly greatful for. Disappointing however that the A has destroyed many mutual friendships.

I have been able to get closer to my brothers and sisters more than ever and their support has been fantastic.

I can buy the family home if I want it. (confirmed with broker)

If I don't want it, it will sell and I will have a decent amount of money (makes life a bit easier)

I have discovered real strength through this ordeal and am loving learning more about who I am, setting boundaries, MB Principles and the support I get from these forums.

and the biggest....

I have 2 wonderful, beautiful, intelligent boys who need a father to guide them into become men with morals, values, and passion for life.

So i have alot to be thankful for.

Cheers

Looking in on Wes's thread now, but know what JL, your comments are primarily premature and in the words of one Vince Lombardi, 'rinky dink'. I think Wes has been thru one helluva lot and is doing as well as can be!

Tom

Hi Wes,

I am very sorry to learn about your situation.

In citing your positives I think you forgot one thing - that in 20 years or so when your sons are young adults, they are surely going to remember how dedicated and faithful to them their dad was. That is going to amount to much more than an expense account or a company computer.

Just simply the best to you..

Tom

Tom,

I don't even know how to respond to such an off the wall comment. Just a note: Vince Lombardi was a football coach, no more no less.

JL

Thanks for your support JL, Tom2010, clark_kent and others.

@Tom2010 - I'm pretty sure JL comments, although coming across at times harsh are there to help me realise the real reality of my situation. At times this brutal honesty is needed to shake me out of my own depression/self pity and allows me to refocus on what I have to work with at this minute.

but thankyou everybody for your kind words.

need a new Im or a back up IM

Don't text your WW when the kids say anything. You'll learn, as you heal, that you have your life with them and she has hers and you simply keep them separate. If my kids ask to call my ex, I accomodate, but I don't volunteer it for them or call her to say, "Guess what little HTLD just said."

She has no need to know.

Ignore her texts about turning the kids against her. Don't say anything about her to the kids. If they ask anything, tell them that you love your WW and hope you can all be a family again someday, but that she has a boyfriend and that you're not supposed to have boyfriends or girlfriends when you're married.

Simply tell them that you don't know why their mother is doing what she's doing, but that you're against it and so are the rules of God.

Be their beacon of light. None of this is "turning the kids against her".

You also have every right to say whatever you wish about OM. He's not family or blood.

I just caught up on a bunch of your thread.

I�m sorry about the pregnancy. Personally, I would find this to be the ultimate LB. I�m sorry, other men may be able to forgive and do it, but I can�t honestly say I could raise another man�s child that resulted from an affair. This to me would be a solid death to the marriage and I would file for divorce to ensure that there was zero chance that I would be held responsible for that child and it�s upbringing.

I don�t know how you stand on that issue. She would be dead to me in every way.

You have a very good custody arrangement. Find a way to cement it and make it permanent and enforceable.

Wesh, I have an arrangement where I see my kids a lot. If your feelings for your WW aren�t dead, they will be eventually.

My advice is to let this woman go, carry on with your life, heal, and enjoy your time with your boys.

Let her crash and burn on her own.

But that�s me.

Are you willing to raise another man�s child if she comes back to you in a year?

WesH,

HTLD, touched on the major issue other than the existence of OM. You do have tough decisions to make, but I am heartened by your post concerning where your life is. It seems to me you are getting yourself positioned to make the hard decisions and that is very good to see.

I will say that you really don't have to worry about her pregnancy UNTIL OM is out of the picture, but when he is be prepared to be put on the hotseat. At that point, you must be emotionally focussed on your goals and what you think is best for you and your boys. She will play all of the cards that is for sure.

It seems to me that you are making good progress on gaining control of yourself and starting to set your boundaries. Just remember all of this is very "simple" it just isn't very "easy".

God Bless,

JL

Hi Wes,

I honestly don't know what I am doing here to even attempt to counsel you because I have not gone thru what you are, but just that you seem like a dedicated, caring person and I respect that.

Only, if I were in your shoes, I would assert myself more in terms of insisting on your rights regading visitation and the way she is treating you. Women can simply be b*tches. Especially when they get a mindset - and it is a mindset - to castigate their husbands to justify their own failure.

I understand how difficult it has to be to get an IM at all hours of the day to intervene - transport to school, exchanges, etc. In all of this tho, are you doing enough for you>

Please take care and prayers,

Tom

Wes, I haven't read through your whole thread tonight but I just wanted to give you a heads up regarding the custody/visitation issue. Even if you don't ACT every time she doesn't abide by the custody order (is there one?) you still need to journal everything. In your journal, you don't want to include your personal feelings, just record the facts.

Ex: 01/01/11: WW was scheduled to pick up boys at 3:00. She arrived at 4:30 with no phone call.

01/05/11: WW kept boys with her on my scheduled visitation day. Message sent through IM.

01/11/11: WW brought the boys home on time today.

Record the good and the bad. You want to appear to just be making a record as opposed to a list of your grievances. You want to be able to establish that she is purposely and blatantly ignoring the Court's order.

THEN, when the time comes and so many violations have occurred, your attorney can take this information and file something for enforcement.

Take the next however many months and make your relationship with your sons even stronger. Become a better man than ever before. Your WW is lost. You have lots to think about and lots of time.

By the way, how did you find out she's pregnant?

Thanks for the comments guys, its all helps greatly.

You raise a interesting question about raising OM child and if the possibility ever occurs can you go fix such a broken marriage?.

When I found out about about her pregnancy (later on that) something inside me died. There has been six months of pain, hurt, longing and hope, but the moment I found out a definitely change happened, as intense as finding out about the initial A.

I cried by myself that night for at least 3 hours straight before sleeping due to exhaustion. It is a pain nobody should ever have to go through and endure. I wasn't only grieving the loss of my marriage but also the simple fact that I had to face the world without the innocent I love. I was bought up to dream, to always have hope, to fight for what you believe in and to wear your heart on your sleeve. This was not the world I was now living in, people do hurt others, some people don't care and I still battle with this everyday.

So was this the ultimate LBer - Yes without a doubt
It is so hard to never be able to ask why? how? when? I have no answers and realize I may never have any.

When I think of my WW, it is just like she has died literally, It has been six months since I have seen the wife I have loved for 15 years. She is emotionless, cold, and expressionless. I don't know this person anymore. It is just that crazy. We were best friends, shared secrets, raised a family, laughed and loved life, or maybe that is just my story and I was naive.

Could I raise the Om's child, it runs through my mind all the time now, but does this ever happen?? Do they ever go back to the BS? For me it would depend on her remorse. I mean I would need to see and feel true remorse, to feel her true total devotion to me and hope for a happy future. I would need to look into her eyes and soul and feel it.

For now however I am confused about my feelings. I hear a song on the radio and my feelings flood back instantly, but are these now fond memories of the past or my true unconditional love for my WW, I'm not sure. Do I now miss my WW or am i just grieving the break down of the family unit. I absolutely loved my family life with her.

I believed so so much in my marriage vows and have been disappointed in some peoples attitude these days towards marriage and complete lack of devotion. I still wear my wedding ring and won't take it off until I am divorced. Some may say this is torture but this is a personal choice.

I have been asked out by 3 ladies since my separation and up until now have said no, but last night I went out with a lady for dinner. She knows what I have been through and knows 100% that I am not in anyway interested in a relationship other than friendship. We laugh, chatted and were quite open about life.
It was great to have the companionship of another lady and at the end of the night she said "Wes, don't sell yourself short, you have so much to offer" It made me feel great. The first time in a long time. It put some hope again that things will be ok regardless of my WW and her decisions and that there still was great people out there.

I will always be open to going to councilling with my WW, to try and fix a marriage so we will see what the future holds.

Wes

It is WRONG to date while you are still married. Don't go the wayward route. You will have plenty of time to date someone AFTER YOU GET DIVORCED(if that is what happens).

Come on, you don't need me to tall you this. You KNOW this.

You state that you are going to keep your wedding ring on until you are divorced and then the next paragraph is about the "lady" that you went out on a DATE with. AHHHHHHHHH Listen up. You can leep that wedding ring on, or take it off, it is a SYMBOL. It is about the ACTIONS that you take. That "lady(OW)" was on a date. OMG, I can't believe that you didn't see it.

So, NO MORE DATING WHILE YOU ARE STILL MARRIED.

I didn't take off my wedding ring until I had been in Plan B for about 6 months. Everyone takes it off when it is right for them. I had to replace the ring though because it felt weird not having it on my hand anymore. It has been replaced by a family ring containing the birth stones of my 2 children with hearts. It was a great replacement.

WesH,

You are coming to where you need to be. You don't have a choice to make now, but I do believe you will have one in the future. Hence my earlier posts.

You must get emotionally and mentally healthy to face the choices you most likely will have. If for some reason you will not then your life will move on and you will have other OPPORTUNITIES. But, don't forget what you liked and enjoyed. As you stated you enjoyed your marriage and your family don't try to suppress this, but embrace it. It will lead you to where you want to go.

You are doing well WesH, much better than you think. You have had some shattering news, and yet here you stand. You will get through this.

Hang in there.

JL

Hi Guys,

Just a update, its been a good 2 weeks, really settled into Plan B and am amazed at how much clear my mind is and how much more settled I am.

But unfortunately the WW managed to get in touch today.

It wasn't my fault, I am a sales rep so im on my phone all day and she had got a new phone and new number so I just answered the call. It felt absolutely terrible and took me back to that place again. I made the call super quick and shut her down (she was talking something about the kids but to tell you the truth i was in shock to hear from her and not listening)

I then sent her a real quick text once again tell her not to contact me and was really quite blunt. Her response was

"Wes our marriage just didn't work, i miss my friend (being me) but can't have both, best you hate me"

Anyway back to Plan B after this hiccup, I now have her new number blocked.

Next time, hang up and block the number immediately. But I guess you already knew that

**edit**

It's one thing that WW got by with a new number.

But another thing to continue to break NC by allowing phone call to go past the point of recognition that it was WW. That is the point to not even say that he's in NC, nothing, zip, nada. The only thing WW is to hear from him is the click when he hangs up.

So WW breaks NC.

What does BH do?

He breaks NC further by sending a text.

Then what does BH doe next?

Breaks NC by reading TM from WW instead of just deleting it.

**edit**

Now, TR, quit being so rough on Wes. This was a hiccup. We've seen hundreds of BS's do the same thing. This is a 2x4 situation, but not a telephone pole.

Wes, quit it. You know the drill.

Stop dropping the log cabins on top of me

Wes,

You did fine. Ignore the 2x4s. She snuck a punch in on you.

You're doing great.

Stay strong and quiet, my friend.

Hey just a quick update guys,

8 months almost from discovery of my WW affair, her leaving for OM and becoming pregnant.

I have been doing real well, my boys are settled into a nice routine and I have learnt to breathe again. Work is going well and I am back working hard and am really focused.
Since my last post it has been a month of rediscovery. I am in a very happy place and have been able to look at my past relationship from the distance without feelings of hurt, anger and betrayal setting in.

I now am disappointed with the outcome from the mess my WW created but am very excited about the future. When all is said and done, I didn't create this mess and I won't be dragged down into the craziness. I have discovered self worth and pride again and have met so many new wonderful friends in the process.

So where am I up to??

I don't speak to my WW apart from a odd occasion when something comes up about the boys. I have a lot of new friends, taken up a new sport, rekindled my love of some old hobbies and now have put my house on the market to sell. This will be the final financial tie to cut with my WW.

I have read a lot of books on affairs and relationships and have set new boundaries about the future and what I will and wont accept in life. I hope those boundaries will allow me to never be treated this way again.

I never thought I would say this but I do want to divorce, perhaps I didn't go to Plan B quick enough but I believe my love bank for her is empty. I really did give it my all.

A new chapter starts, the boys have a strong focused father and life is good. Thank you for all the support i recieved from everybody on these forums, it helped me through some very dark days.

Wesley

Good for you, sir.

Strength and perseverance.

WesH,

Congratulations, you have come to where you want to be. It sounds as if you have learned alot, and now realize you cannot control others decisions.

Best of all I am sure you boys enjoy the new you. Keep us updated.

God Bless,

JL