This is my first post on this forum so forgive my inexperience. I discovered my husband's affair with a co-worker the middle of November. He says the affair has been going for 18 months. I have suspected something for a couple years, but I couldn't find proof until November.

We decided to work on our marriage and he said he was willing to work on our marriage and end the affair, but I didn't feel he was totally committed and he wouldn't open up to the details of the affair. He wouldn't reveal information about a secret e-mail account that I know he has plus other things. I caught him texting her and then deleting the texts to hide them from me. When I discovered that I confronted him and said that there is no hope of recovering our marriage if he continues to be secretive and dishonest. I then confronted the other wayward spouse and told her husband. This was a few days before Christmas and I handled it inappropriately by having an angry outburst. Since then I've started Plan A and have avoided angry outbursts.

After that I still felt like he wasn't totally committed to our recovery. I saw signs that he was stopping the affair; no more texting, phone calls etc and he was trying to be more intimate and spending time with me. But he's not very willing to talk about the affair. I don't think he's willing to change jobs and I know he thinks he can stay friends with her at work. This is not an option in my book. I'm afraid they're taking the affair underground.

I've started to realize that I'm enabling the affair and that I need to treat this like an addiction. I finally decided to do full on nuclear exposure a few days ago. I calmly told him I loved him and wanted to work on our marriage. I said that I want us to have a romantic and loving relationship where we both meet others needs. I said that I'm not exposing the affair to hurt him, but to stop the affair. Then I proceeded to give him a list of all the people I told, parents, family, friends and clergy. I decided to tell a bunch of people as opposed to trickle exposures to create the tsunami affect that is discussed in the Exposure 101 posting. As expected he is furious and threatened divorce. This is day 4 after the exposure and he is still furious. He hasn't brought up the word divorce again, but he doesn't come home from work until late a night and locks himself in the spare bedroom and on his day off today just left the house.

I know this exposure will get him out of the fog, but how long does it take? Does anyone have experience with the time frame? I'm assuming that he will be angry for sometime until the fog lifts. Is this correct? He is the type of person who doesn't apologize easily. As you can guess I'm worried that he'll file for divorce, but I've come to the conclusion that I don't have a marriage that will work as long as the affair isn't squashed completely so what do I have to lose. It's very hard to deal with the anger that he is displaying towards me.

The other thing that I'm struggling with is that my wonderful mother died in March of 2012 and I'm having to deal with that as well. Why does life have to be so hard sometimes? At least anxiety drugs and anti-depressants are helping as well as my counseling sessions.

Any help would be appreciated. Thank You.

Excellent work courageous and a very apt username for you!

Can you start your own thread so we can help you with your Plan A? You need to be putting your foot down about these secretive absences from the house.

Courageous, welcome to Marriage Builders. I am sorry for the reasons that bring you here.

The fog will never end until he ends all contact with the OW. That is STEP ONE. Until he leaves the job, you can consider the affair active and the prospect of recovery absolutely impossible.

I would DEMAND that he leave the job and strongly consider exposing the affair at work.

If you read the link in MLs signature it has an excellent guide to workplace exposure.

That is absolutely key. Until he has NC with OW he will make less wise decisions than a falling down drunk. You need to make the workplace a no go area and have to do the heavylifting yourself I'm afraid.

If he stays in that job, hell never get out of the fog. Even if the only thing he sees of OW is her car outside. That is enough of a trigger. The whole building is a trigger. And you will bleed a slow death thinking of them working together every day.

Are they equals at work or is one superior?

Welcome!

Hello Courageous.

Your story sounds very similar to mine. You are getting the very best advice from MelodyLane and indiegirl.

Here is my two cents:

1. THE AFFAIR MUST END. In order for this to happen, your WH must leave that job. Immediately, if not sooner. Because even if he has an intension to end it, any contact or reminder (from their shared places up to actual face-to-face contact) will be irresistible to him. You are right to consider it an addiction. It is.

2. YOU MUST EXPOSE THE AFFAIR AT HIS WORK PLACE. Include the head of HR, plus the superiors of each of your WH and the OW. This will blow open the secrecy of the A. Often, HR people will work to arrange transfers. At the very least, having the A exposed at the workplace puts more eyes and ears on the ground there.
I did not do this at D-day 1, because my WH assured me it was ended, and I misunderstood Dr. Harley's advice. Because of my failure to workplace expose, the A went underground for 6 more months. I actually enabled it. Don't make my mistake.

3. DO NOT DISCUSS EXPOSURE WITH YOUR WH. This invaluable tool works best when it has the element of surprise. Plus, you do not want to alert you WH of your plan.

4. IF YOU DO NOT KNOW WHO THE OW IS, PUT SNOOPING TECHNIQUES IN PLACE. You really should expose with the names of both AP's. Plus, once you know, you can find out if the OW is married, and if so, expose to her BH. And her friends and family.

Any questions?

Thanks for the kind words saying I did an excellent job.

As far as starting my own thread I looked at my original post and it says at the bottom that it was edited by Fireproof and that reason was to change the title. I think it was changed to be called Courageous Thread. I'm still learning. Does that mean that it was changed to be my own thread or do I still need to start my own thread? If I need to start my own thread can you tell me how?

There usually are not secretive absences from the house by my husband except today because he is very, very pissed at me right now because of the exposure. Prior to this there were not secretive absences because the affair happened during work time. Today he is so pissed and just approaching him makes him angry so I'm trying to let him have space except to tell him that I love him and I want the marriage to work.

hi courageous. you have your own thread now! it's called "courageous' thread."

congratulations on doing a nuclear exposure! well done! it's a good thing that you're WH is pissed off. do get onto workplace exposure - can you please answer the Qs above about the workplace? and don't tell WH you're doing that. if he thinks he's unhappy now, just wait until he has heat from all aspects of his life. it'll be quite the wake-up call for him.

he will be peeved for a bit. that's ok. your M can survive anger. it cannot survive an AP (adultery partner). you are doing the right thing. one of the above posters asked if you have any questions. do you?

It looks like they made your post into your own thread so you don't have to.

Letty is correct. I would go in there TODAY and tell him he will have to leave that job. Recovery is impossible unless he leaves.

And plan on exposing to the workplace on Monday.

Otherwise, your marriage won't make it.

If forgot to mention that when I did the exposure several days ago I told WS that there will have to be extraordinary measures taken so that we can make sure this never happens again with her or anyone else. He asked what those were and I said:

1. One of them has to get a different job
2. Both of us sharing our daily schedules
3. Both of us being accountable for money.
4. Complete sharing of passwords, e-mail access, etc.
5. And of course the affair has to end, but I forgot to mention the NC letter to be sent to her. I'll bring that up again.

A few years ago we started the Dave Ramsey money plan where we each get cash at the beginning of each month to use for meals etc. What a mistake that was now that I look back. I couldn't tell where he was spending the money. That WILL stop. Now I know why he was always asking for an increase.

this is a good start. your WH will have to set some EPs so that the M becomes affair-proof. he can do this by sharing with you how the adultery started - how did they become close? then he needs to be aware of that kind of behaviour so it doesn't happen again. do you feel you have all the information about it that you need? if not, start formulating some Qs. you don't have to ask them just yet. you will likely come up with more.

is he still not speaking w/you? (go ahead, let him be mad.)

They are equals at their jobs.

I kind of already did workplace exposure. I say kind of because when I confronted the OW (other woman right?). I did it on the sidewalk out in front of her work building. I told her to stay away from my husband.

Apparently one of the office gossip queens looked out the window and saw us talking. When she went into the building after the confrontation somehow the issue of the affair came about. Now her two department supervisors know and they are not allowing the two of them to work together. Luckily her supervisor is understanding of me because she got a divorce years ago because her husband cheated on her. Also, her supervisor is my client. My WS and the OW were the ones to tell me all this so I doubted whether it was even true. They even told me that I was blocked from the building. I was never officially notified that I was blocked from the building so I assumed the whole story was just a bunch of lies to keep me from talking to their work. Well as it turns out I have a contact there at the same office and she told me that I was NOT blocked from the building so that part is a lie, but the part about the supervisors knowing about the affair and them not being allowed to work together is true according to my friend (contact). So yeah for me there!!! The only problem is that his department of the same agency does not yet, to my knowledge, know about the affair.

Because I rely on his income because my business doesn't make enough to support us, I've been reluctant to inform his direct boss. The supervisor in the OW's department is a friend of my WS's supervisor so I think it will eventually get to my WS's supervisor. When I originally confronted the OW outside of her work my husband got divorce papers at that point, but never did anything with them. I have already demanded that he leave his job, but he is very stubborn. I understand the nature of triggers and how if he or OW doesn't leave their job that they will start it again eventually.

Now since the full blown exposure he is threatening divorce again.

I've included alot of details here. What are the chances that the others, (WS, OW and her husband) could see my post? I'm probably just being paranoid.

Finally, I did tell the OW's husband already the same day I confronted her. Sorry to piecemeal all these details.

You need to do a proper workplace exposure.

What you did was not workplace exposure, its more like a release of gossip. (Good work confronting OW though)

We call this a 'trickle' exposure. It's like using a pea shooter against a tiger. Just enough to piss it off, not enough to kill it. The two of them are laughing, thinking their simplistic lies will keep the status quo.

Your H also believes picking up a few divorce papers and sulking will also get you to back off.

The supervisors support is kind, but ultimately worthless. Is she going to babysit the two of them 24/7? She doesn't appear to know how they spend their time after work. Not even you know that!

He needs to leave the job. One of them does, anyway. And really, it is best that he does because you don't want him walking around in a hallway of memories for most of the day. He can get another job.

Not exposing him sends the message that you will cover for him when he does wrong. It enables him to do wrong. It encourages future wrongs. You should instead be encouraging him to face up to his consequences.

He endangered his job when he screwed around at work. Fact. He cannot complain if he loses his job for screwing around at work.

He is hoping that the money means more to you than fidelity of the marriage. He is trying to buy you.

Does it suck that he has damaged his means of supporting you by getting cheap fun at work?

Yes. If he gets out of the fog, we'll see if he can make it up to you.

We'll see.

Your husband's affair will not end if they continue to work together.

Then you will be divorced.

I don't have enough info to work out the financial pros/cons of that. That's for you to do.

My angle is whether you want to kill the affair & thereby give yourself a chance at saving your marriage.

I was a guy who got into an affair (4 years ago), and was lucky I didn't totally destroy my marriage to the best wonderful on the planet. And I can tell you firsthand exactly how well it works to try to end an affair while remaining in contact with the affair partner: It doesn't work at all.

It's your call.

What is EP's? I'm still learning the lingo.

Yes, he is still not speaking to me.

Extraordinary precautions.



Don't pay that any mind. No more than if he were a sulky toddler.

He is trying to unnerve and weaken you. Or get you mad. Be determinedly sweet and cheerful. Put your pokerface on and act as if you don't notice. This will madden him further - which is great! Just so long as you remain visibly unshaken he can get as sulky as he chooses.


Have you read the carrot and stick of Plan A?

C, I would drive the job issue home NOW and ask him when he will be quitting that job. Make it very clear to him he has to be gone by the end of the month. And I would go ahead and expose the affair - officially - at work. That will motivate him to get out of there. Every day he goes there is another day that the affair continues. I assure you the affair has not ended.

The reason I am suggesting doing this NOW is because a) he is already ticked off so you might as well get your money's worth, b) so he knows you are dead serious and c) so he knows his sulking does not intimidate you. Don't leave this to another time so you are dealing with another blow up later. Get his all done now.

I would drive the stake in the heart of this affair and do not let up until it is dead, dead, dead. That is the only hope you have of saving your marriage.

He needs to be told that he either leaves the job or he moves out. There is no other way and that is how forcefully he should be told. You can't softsell this and be successful.

If you don't get him out of there, this is hopeless and all of your work will have been for naught.

Wow, everyone on this forum is just wonderful. Thank you so very much.

I'm starting to build the courage to tell his workplace on Monday.

I see now how his sulking and his getting divorce papers is just his way of getting me to back off. He's the one that risked his job by fooling around at work.

I'm glad you said that he's trying to buy me, by hoping that I'll value the money more than the fidelity of our marriage.

I'm still enabling him if I don't expose this at his work. Thank you for your reminding me of these facts.

He's already been furious for 4 days since the exposure to friends, family etc. I might as well do the workplace exposure now so I can make the best use of his anger LOL.

He's probably already scared to death anyway that it will be revealed in some other way. He should be scared. How dare he put our financial future at risk, not to mention our whole marriage and lives.

I like what you said about them laughing at me and thinking their lies will be a able to keep the status quo. They won't be laughing for long come Monday.

I'm starting to see how I'm sending the message that I'll cover for him when he does wrong. I am getting the courage to tell the workplace.

Thanks

You got it! And you have nothing to lose, because you don't have a marriage if he doesn't leave. As it stands now, you don't have a marriage. And the longer he goes there, the stronger the chance that he leaves FOR the OW. This is a very entrenched, long term affair. It will take a nuclear blast to kill it. You have that chance NOW while you have them on the ropes. And the time to strike is now.

p.s. I want to applaud you for the super job you did on exposure!

Good job on the exposure and welcome to MB.

Has the BH been in contact with you since he learned of the affair?

GloveOil,

I really appreciate your perspective on things! Thanks!

Courageous,

You are doing a great job. Follow what the vets say. You are doing great.

I agree! He is trying to unnerve and weaken me. OK, my pokerface is on and I'll be super sweet and cheerful. This will make his blood boil. Boy, won't this be fun! Thanks for the laugh

Yes, I have been reading the Carrot and stick of Plan A. I'm starting to love the stick part. No more doormat!!!

He is more than just sulking though. He is super, super pissed. I guess I know that I hit him where it hurts with the exposure.

That is great!! The more pissed, the more effective your exposure in killing the affair.

Does the OW have a facebook account? If she does, I would try and find her mother on there and expose the affair to her. Exposing to the affairee's mothers is a powerful exposure because it - usually - ruins the future of the affair. Most parents care enough about their kids to not support an affair.

Courageous,

I don't have any further advice for you as you got some of the best Mb vets helping you.

Welcome to MB and sorry you are going through this.

I really admire your drive and determination to kill this A and really wish there were more BS who were as determined as you to save their marriage from an A.

Really well done and good luck on Monday.

I like how you say that workplace exposure will motivate him to get out of there.

Plus, I can't take it anymore with the wondering what is happening between them at work.

Wow, making him move out will be very, very hard! I'm starting to see how this is necessary. I don't have a marriage anyway. Besides, I can't take much more of this!

Dr. Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders, advises only putting up with this for about 3 weeks. After that, betrayed wives start having nervous breakdowns and physical problems. He recommends a dark separation if the wayward won't completely end contact. And that does mean working together!

Yes, it's a very entrenched, long term affair. I've read that these types are the hardest to recover from sadly

Another reason to go nuclear with everything! Thanks so much for the support, MelodyLane, you're the best

Its not as difficult as you think. Mine mistook my request as temporary and jumped at the chance to impress the OW all the while meaning to veer back my way again soon.

Then I had the locks changed, changed my contact details and had his belongings sent on. A love letter informed him he will have a loving wife waiting for him when the A is over.

Link in my sig explains Plan B preps

Thanks!

No, the BH has not been in contact with me even though I gave him my contact info. I kind of screwed up when I confronted OW, I threatened OW that I would be calling her BH. I called him within 15 minutes of telling her. When I told him he was completely shocked.

I told him the details, but unfortunately I didn't tell him 100% of my evidence. I messed up. We arranged a meeting a few hours after my phone call so I could give him all my copied evidence (e-mails, phone records etc). He never showed up for the meeting. I'm guessing that she got to him first and told him I was crazy, but he didn't seem to know anything when I called. Or he didn't care about the evidence because he already had suspicions and just proceeded to kick her out. I haven't heard anything further. I've been debating contacting him again, but wandered what good it would do. Any thoughts?

Logans Run, Thanks so much. It's wonderful to hear that I'm doing a great job. The support keeps me going

Yes contact him again.

Do you know his address? Can you drive there and give him all your evidence?

You are doing very well, Courageous!

Yes, do whatever it takes to get your evidence into the hands of OWH. Also get the evidence, especially anything work-related, into the hands of BOTH supervisors, the HR department, and maybe an upper-level officer or two.

Now expand on the impact. A phone call to any FEMALE relatives of his would be interesting, unless they are living wayward lifestyles and would support him as a colleague-in-adultery.

You want his whole world to collapse on him (and on POSOW) so in the future he looks back at his decision to pop POSOW as the worst one he ever made!

It's very very unlikely that anyone in your real life will identify your story and out your MB posts to someone/anyone in your real life. When you read here long enough these stories all sound similar. Just be careful adding any names or locations to your posts.

That being said...the biggest risk to discovery is when your husband snoops your computer to see what you are up to. We've even heard tell of some waywards putting keyloggers on their spouses computers to monitor whether they are getting suspicious. However, typically they just look in your computer history to see what you've been up to when it becomes obvious that SOMEBODY is feeding you [what they consider bad] advice.

Just use a separate browser for MB, close it when you leave, clear your history every time. If you run a mac...make good use of the "Private Browsing". If you access with your phone be sure you password protect or find some private browser App or something. Just be careful. Never trust a wayward...he's been playing this game a lot longer than you...being sneaky is his forte.

Godspeed,

Mr. W

p.s. - If he ever does find MB contact/email the mods immediately and they can bury or zap this thread for you.

Opera is very good for private browsing. I use Opera as my primary browser, but not too many folks do so that may work to your advantage. Just don't add any quick start or desktop launches and he'll probably never even notice. Just launch from your program file and then you should be good to go.

There's a private window option that you can access by clicking on the file tab in the upper left hand corner of the page. I don't think this toolbar loads automatically at installation, so you may have to go into "Tools" and then "My Preferences" to get the toolbar up.

If you decide to take this route and need some help setting up, just let me know.

http://www.opera.com/browser/

BTW, you are doing awesome. I'm very impressed with you.

I told my WH that he had to stop contact with AP and he said he would then he started texting her and deleting the texts which I caught and confronted him about. I had an angry outburst when I did this in December and it set us back. I told him he has to stop all contact with her otherwise we can't reconcile the marriage which he said he wanted to do.

After that things seemed to be fairly well. I did not see anymore texts and calls but because they work together I suspected that they were still in contact because he just didn't seem 100% on board (see my first post at the start of this thread). Then I did full nuclear exposure to friends, family and clergy. He got super, super pissed which is good. He started locking himself in the spare bedroom and wouldn't let me go near him. During this time I discovered that the AP has obtained a new cell phone and they started texting again and he put her new phone # under a different person's name. Does he think I'm stupid. He gave me some lame excuse that it was this other person and she just happened to text "Hey there sweetie, because that's how she always talks". I don't believe him.

This is the second time that he has broken his no contact pledge. This is a long-term affair and I know it's an addiction. I told him I know about the 2nd contact and that he has to change jobs and break all contact with her. Am I crazy to give him more time, since it's been only 2 months since I discovered and 5 days since I did full blown nuclear exposure?

I want to continue with plan A and Carrot and Stick. Any thoughts? My business is on our home property and for me to leave would be very, very difficult since my business is very busy right now and until May. He won't leave and says I'm the one who has to leave even though he's the one who had the affair.

Also get the evidence, especially anything work-related, into the hands of BOTH supervisors, the HR department, and maybe an upper-level officer or two. A phone call to any FEMALE relatives of his would be interesting...

Did you do these?

I told my WH that he had to stop contact with AP

Or what? Drunks don't stop drinking because they're ordered to. Addicts don't give up the needle because they have been told to do so.

These addictive personalities will only cease their abuses when the pain of continuing is significantly greater than the expected pain of withdrawal.

So maximize the totality of exposure. If the external sanctions like risking the loss of his job, and the contempt of his family and friends will not break him free, then you order him from the house. Failing that, you contact a lawyer.

Well you have some decisions to make.

BSs who try to Plan A longer than three months have serious problems and breakdowns.

Wouldn't that be somewhat worse for your business? Not to mention marriage?

And why do you need to go anywhere? You are the wronged party. Kick him out and change the locks.

Yesterday when I found the second failure to do no contact I told him I wanted a divorce and I've already talked to an attorney. When I told him this I had an angry outburst. But that was the only way I could get his phone from him and see the texts. I have more questions for the attorney and have an appointment for next week in regards to what I can take legally and certain financial matters. I have to get my ducks in a row before I can leave especially since I'll have to move my business. I know you said I should order him to leave, but yesterday I told him I wanted him out and he said no that it was his house and that I was the one who had to leave. He is in law enforcement and I don't think I can get him to leave. Any thoughts there?

I will tell him more clearly TONIGHT that unless he does a no contact letter and actually does NO CONTACT that I'll be filing for divorce. I know Plan A says to do no selfish demands. Is this one of those demands? I'm thinking no because our marriage is on the line and it's not selfish. It's the stick part of the carrot and stick plan.

I already told his mother all the details of the affair.

I already told his mother all the details of the affair.

Please stop being coy with us, okay?

"Mommy" is a good start. "EVERYBODY IN HIS ENTIRE LIFE" is what was suggested.

You have not exposed to all the supervisory employment persons that were suggested to you for the positive results that that might bring, and are instead jumping to divorce planning? Okay, that your right, but it's NOT the MB Program.

I guess I should have been more specific. I told about 28 people and ran through the list with him of everyone I told. Alot of them were his male friends, but there were females there also.

I'm still reluctant to tell his job because it could mean a sexual harrassment lawsuit and I depend on his income quite a bit. This is one of the exceptions to telling the employer in Mr. Harley's program. I read that in his "When should it be exposed".

Hmmm. Plan for what you will do if you can't. But if I were you I would just try it with the fallback plan of leaving if it fails.

Its the fact of you drawing a line in the sand that's going to get his attention.

Just keep telling him you need him out. You never know, say it enough times he might go for it. If nothing else, he has to leave sometime. Have his stuff moved and locks changed while he's at work.

If he gets back in, then move. But you will have made your point first.

Do the workplace exposure while telling him you need him to commit to a plan or get out.

Okay, I will not "contradict" Dr. Harley, although his exception dealt most directly with exposing at work after the affair is over, not as the best (only?) method of killing an active affair. You've obviously made up your mind.

Enjoy your portion of the paycheck while WH enjoys his dolly on the side, and she lives YOUR life after the divorce!

Btw: "it could mean a sexual harrassment lawsuit..." is bullspit.

Would it leave you completely financially desperate if it affected his job?

Even when it does, I believe Dr H only means WAIT to expose by securing some shelter/support.

He still means you to do it. You won't recover if you dodge consequences.

By the phrase 'quite a bit' I'm guessing it will actually be more financially painful to divorce and provide for two households.

So use your nuclear blast button to prevent that. Will there be a sacrifice? Yeah.

There usually is a terrible financial blow attached to all instances of infidelity.

Its just up to the BS to choose which one they want? Divorce costs? Or job consequence costs?

\

But this misses the point if he works with her. It doesn't matter if he texts with if he is seeing her at work every day.
<snip>


Tell him he has to quit the job or he has to move out because recovery is impossible as long as he works with the OW. You desperately need to expose the affair at work.

If he won't move out, then you will have to file for divorce and get him out of there. The time for Plan A is over. You have been in Plan A for longer than 3 weeks and it is time for Plan B.


I would expose at his workplace asap, Courageous!

Oh no, it is not an exception! He clarified his position in a recent post when we wrote him and told him that betrayed spouses were using this as an excuse NOT to expose at the workplace. Your mrriage is not going to recover any other way:

here

I plan on emailing Dr Harley and asking that he take that "exception" out of the exposure letter because too many people use it as an excuse not to expose at work. Dr Harley was very surprised people were doing that and it just continues to happen. He NEVER meant for people not to expose at work.

Courageous, in your situation you will lose your marriage if he doesn't lose that job, so you have everything to lose if you DON'T. You can only save your marriage if he DOES lose the job, so it makes no sense to be worried about exposure.

Do you want to be married or do you want him to have that job? Take your pick!

If I do Plan B it would be stupid to NOT file for divorce or legal separation, right?

People usually need the legal protection while they Plan B, yes.

It would be a good idea to file for divorce so you have legal protection while you are separated.

I plan on emailing Dr Harley and asking that he take that "exception" out of the exposure letter...

Good idea! Add my endorsement (unless you think that won't help!)

I need your help ASAP! See my prior entries on this thread about my WH's affair with a co-worker.

A week ago I exposed the A to about 29 family and friends and then told my WH of all the people I have told. He was very, very upset with me and wouldn't even come near me for about 5 days which I expected. Over the last few days I was able to talk to him and his anger was starting to subside.

About the 3rd week of December I confronted the AP outside her work and told her to stay away from my WH because they were still having contact at work and texting. I told her I would be calling her husband (big mistake). Anyway about 15 minutes later I called her husband at work and told him of the affair, but didn't tell him all the evidence (another big mistake). I arranged a meeting with him a few hours later to give him copies of all my proof, e-mails, phone records etc. We exchanged phone numbers. Well, he didn't show up because I'm suspecting that she called and told him I'm crazy.

This afternoon I went to his work to deliver the proof to him by hand. They told me that he already left which could be the case because he gets off work early in the afternoon.

After I confronted her at her work my WH and AP told me that I was blocked from her work building (WH works in one building and AP works in another building on the same block). Yesterday I called her supervisor (who is a client of mine) and confirmed that I have NOT BEEN blocked from the building and that it was a lie. I did not tell her of all the evidence I have because I was going to deliver it tomorrow.

On Saturday evening I could tell that my husband was getting many texts from a certain phone number according to Verizon Online. Since he has now removed the password from his phone and has been letting me look at his phone I asked to see it and he got very upset and fought me to get the phone. I finally got the phone from him and one of the texts he got was "Hey there sweetie". The phone number was a new number under a new contact name. When I confronted him about this he said that that was just the way she always talked. I called the number today and the person my WH said the number belonged to answered the phone. He is either telling the truth or the AP borrowed the phone from a friend. I'm just so suspicious of everything he does now.

This evening I got a text form her saying "Stay the F**k away from my husbands work and my work. We will get restraining orders and you will look like a fool. The police dept boys are already watching for u. Rumors have flown and people are saying you are crazy and telling him to leave u. I have had no contact with him since before x mas. And your little call Saturday night was j****a who called him not me. Pull the number and call her she can't wait to talk to you. I better never see u near me again or my family"

In her text she says she has not had any contact with him, but how would she know about the texts from Saturday night if she had not spoken to him.

I have a small service business with a good reputation. She is now spreading false rumors about me and I'm sure is out to destroy me. I have a friend that works in the same office as her and has told me this. This is so unfair because I don't deserve this and now my business is going to suffer.

I am planning on taking my proof to their work tomorrow. My WH is in law enforcement and she works for social services. Any advice would be helpful. Can I get in trouble legally for telling the employer? Can I get a restraining order against her? I have to save my marriage and exposure at work is the only option. Please help ASAP!!!!

Wow POSOW is mad. At least you realized your mistakes. If it were me I would go to his work and OWH work and give them all proof of the affair. If she wants a restraining order she can get one after you set this up. Legally I don't see any repercussions on your part you might want to call a lawyer for a free consultation or a paralegal service to be sure.

Sweetie, first of all...CALm DOWN! I will tell you right now that the skank is blowing smoke up your wazoo.

I dealt with the very same thing with my WH and his AP throwing rumors around that I am crazy and his AP threatening ME with a RO. The only way to get an RO is for harassment or threatening danger to someone. Harassment means repeated. If she talked to cops, they probably laughed at her.
"Excuse me officer, I'd like to get an RO against the women who's married to the guy I'm screwing"....um yeah.

She's scared because you are messing up her little fantasy world. And does NOT want you to get to her husband and blow up her little fantasy.

The text he got saturday night? I can gaurantee you was skank. My WH's AP changed her # 4 times during their affair and it was never attached to her name. But I knew it was her because the dumb ho always misspelled the word "bye" as "bey".

Yor best way to pre-empt rumors is my exposure which is why we always recommend exposure. That way you get the truth out there before they get their lies out there.

Keep on your course and don't let her threats or rumors deter you. If her threats escalate, then YOU call the police and report it. I would also suggest slapping spyware on his phone so you know about any further contact.

((hugs)) to you, honey. Your story is so very much like mine. I'll try to help if I can.

~RQ

Courageous, expose the affair at the workplace and you will stop getting these silly threats. Did you read the exposure thread on how to expose an affair?

Yes, I would make it a priority to speak to their employers about them fraternizing and engaging in their affair while at work. Do they work in the same building?

Well, it is done. I am just getting back to work after exposing the affair to their work. I went to human resources and requested to speak to WH supervisor (the county sheriff) and two of her supervisors as well as the HR director. It was great I had copies of e-mails, texts and phone records. I even did an analysis of how many phone calls per month. It was great!!!! I had a set of 4 copies, one for each of them. The stack was about an inch thick. I told them everything and even showed them the naked picture.

After the OW threatened me last night I was so on board with the work exposure. She better watch out she has woke a sleeping giant. I bet she thought she had me whipped. I also wrote up a letter to go with all the paperwork. It was one that was prepared by an attorney/board member of MB. It looked so official. She doesn't know who she's messing with. I hate to say it, but it felt pretty good. I told them I was doing it to save my marriage and the one supervisor had the gall to say that the marriage pretty much looks over. What a jerk!!!! Anyway, I'll prove him wrong, but I am prepared for the worst case scenario. I'm not ready to give up yet.

You mentioned spyware on his phone. I've been looking into that for an iPhone. The only one I can find requires the phone to be jail broken and I don't think I'll be able to accomplish that. Do you know of any program that doesn't require the phone to be jail broken?

MelodyLane, thanks so much for your wonderful support. It is finished. This morning I exposed to affair to the workplace. See my post just prior to this one for the details.

He's going to be pretty upset and probably want to sit down and fill out divorce papers. I'm going to tell him that it's probably best to wait until he cools off for about a week so that way he has a clear head. What do you think?

I have an appointment with an attorney next Wednesday to get help with filing for legal separation. I want to have that coincide with Plan B. Since my business is on the home property I was going to ask him to leave, but I bet he won't. I guess I'll try it first to see how it works and if it doesn't then I'll leave, but it may take me a bit to get my business set up and it's a very, very busy time for my business right now. I'm planning on moving in with my elderly father. Do you have any thoughts on timing plan B and separation? Should I see how the work exposure goes first before Plan B?

Fantastic job courageous.

Did you see this?
iPhone Help

I exposed this morning. I exposed according to MB quidelines I believe. They work in different buildings, but both buildings are on the same block.

Good job, Courageous!!!

Now prepare for them to go ballistic. Are you ready? Can you have a little recorder in your pocket to protect yourself.

So proud of you!!

NOW, when he explodes at you, don't get upset, don't fight, and don't allow him to bully you. you will be ok!

Excellent work!

NOW, when he explodes at you, don't get upset, don't fight, and don't allow him to bully you. you will be ok!

Your only response is, "I did what I had to do to try to repair our marriage!" Repeat ad nauseum.

Quick tj, what is "ad nauseum"?

And another response to add to that, to reply to his angry bursts: "Would you like a potato chip?"

Tell him that you will be giving him that divorce - on your terms - if he doesn't leave that job and end all contact with the OW. Let him know that you won't be filling out any divorce papers with him. It will all be done through your attorney.

If he refuses to leave that job and end contact, ask him to leave.


I would try and pressure him to leave first. By all means see an attorney next week and find out your rights. Tell the atty you need him to get your husband legally removed and ask him how he can do that. [most atty's are lazy and will just say they can't so you have to apply pressure = "I need to get him removed, how would you suggest I do that?"]

Then if he won't leave you might have to do the leaving. But it is good that you are exploring your options and getting a plan in place. I love a smart girl!!

Here is who she is messin with:

Quick tj, what is "ad nauseum"?

Colloquially, "until you're (he's) sick of it".

What does " colloquially" mean??

Great job, Courageous, and a great name for you. Just act calm and serene. If he goes off spewing nonsense, don't engage and don't try to defend yourself. Just tell him that you are just "trying to save our marriage, Dear. Now what would you like for dinner?"

Can you people not speak TEXAS ENGLISH around here!??

You said my story is almost like yours. Even your dates are the same except a year earlier. Wow! How did you do your Plan B? It looks like you were in Plan B for about 5 weeks before you got the no contact pledge. Did you move back in then or did he move out. What was your situation like? I'm about ready to go into Plan B and need to find a way to let him know about how to write the no contact letter.

Did you file for divorce or legal separation at the time of Plan B?

Not to shoot down your plan but your doing a good job. Did you Plan A at all? Plan B is recommended after Plan A unless your in danger of physical abuse by your WS.

Yes, I did Plan A for about 4-6 weeks.

My WH's boss just called and said he told my husband and my husband was very, very upset. He said he didn't know what the future of our marriage was and that he was upset that I chose the way I did by exposing the affair to his boss.

Did I do the wrong thing? I'm starting to freak out!!!

????

Your WH's spouse is.......you!

Are you saying your WH's POSOW's BH called you?
All you need to have said was, "You're welcome!"

I just edited my post you were referring to. Of course my husband denied there was any sex even though he e-mailed her a picture of himself naked plus other sexual type e-mails. In addition there were many, many phone calls each month. Even if there was not sex, it definitely was an emotional affair. I also got an STD, so what does that tell you. Also, my WH isn't going to admit to his boss that there was sex.

Courageous...

This is EXACTLY what to expect at this stage....

Keep your head. This will pass.

Your response, "I am just trying to save or marriage, Honey (or whatever you use for him.) No anger, heat or threat in our voice.

Sending hugs to help you keep calm.....(((((( COURAGEOUS ))))))))

The "future" of your marriage is none of his damn business. Its not like he knows anything about marriages.

That is great that your husband is very upset! That was your goal. The more upset, the better you hit the target.

Thanks! I'm thinking of not being home when he returns from work. He may not even come home. There were like 60 to 80 phone calls each month. I know they work together and do investigations together but THAT MANY calls.

Thanks for your support! I just have to remember how upset he got the first time I went down to his work upset and the OW sent a very nasty "Stay the F**k away" text last night.

Did I do Plan A long enough? I had a few angry outbursts in Plan A, but my health and business is suffering. It's been since 11/13/12 since I discovered and the first two weeks were very much NOT Plan A because I was so angry and upset.

Plus I found chocolates and a Victoria's Secret gift card that had "I Love you" printed on it in his car a few weeks before Christmas. They were hidden under his seat. It was past Christmas and he didn't give them to me. He said he forgot about the gift card because it must have fallen in between the seat, but that it really was for me. Lie!!!! I didn't find the chocolates until later and just took them from his car and haven't told him yet.

Courageous...
That is not your husband... He has been replaced by an "alien" who will say and do anything to keep his A going. Do not get caught up in his emotional blackmail. Keep breathing... Stay calm and keep your head.

You are doing great....

Just wanted to encourage you that you did NOT do the wrong thing. You are doing the RIGHT thing. Hang in there.
Take the vets advice and stay calm.

Who is the boss's boss? County Executive? The stage is being set for a "burial" of your complaint, kiddo. I'd follow up with an interview with the top dog, or notice of an intention to pursue legal remedies (don't have to be specific - let them sweat), using a lawyer. Or both!

Exposure is an important part of Plan A. Plan A is not Plan Nice it is 'I love you - look at me fight for you'. It is also 'Look how gorgeous, strong and unlike a doormat I am. Are you willing to lose this?'

It is absolutely shameful that his boss is actually trying to gaslight you for his buddy. He is actually going out of his way to encourage adultery in his business. Unbelievable.

Thanks so much for all the support I couldn't do it today without you, God, Xanax and Celexa LOL! I've always been against these types of drugs and have never used them, but they sure are helping. I usually am a doormat and very passive so this is amazing that with yours' and God's help I'm able to do this. God provides help when asked.

Thanks for reminding me that him being very mad is right on the mark and that Exposure is part of Plan A. Maybe I should keep trying Plan A after this exposure cools off. I'll see how it goes. I'm doing better emotionally than I was before except of course days like these.

Thanks again! Everyone is just wonderful here. I so love this forum it gives me strength.

Also, someone mentioned that he is an alien right now. Boy is that true. I don't even know him. When he gets really mad like this he just locks himself in the spare bedroom all night and won't let me get near him for days on end. How childish is that .... or I guess I should say alien LOL

I kicked kiss out of the house at first. But even though he had a place to stay, he would still show up at the house and emotionally torment me, do laundry, and eat our food. And I couldn't do anything about it legally. So I wound up having to rent a house for me and my 4 kids so I could get way from him.

It was hard and I ain't gonna lie, I didn't stay completely dark (which I really regret!) But showing him that I could move on without him seemed to wake him up and helped him realize what he was throwing away. After NC, it was a couple of months before I allowed him to move in with me and the kids.

I did see a lawyer at first, but the amount the lawyer wnted was the same amount that I needed for the deposit on the house. I decided the house was more important and if he wanted a divorce, HE could pay for it.

You have a plan. And that empowers you!


I actually thought kiss was on steroids or something (before I understood the true depth of his A) because he was sooo different from the husband I knew.

I did forget to mention that his boss did say that they both denied any sex, but that it was just flirting and inappropriate stuff. My WH's boss said that he didn't go into everything with my WH about what I told them. Dang it!!! He's not good at confrontation obviously!! He so must change jobs!

When I did the exposure I thought about not showing them the naked picture, but I sure am glad I did. I also told them about how I got HPV even though my husband is my only partner ever. At her job she's been telling everyone I'm crazy. During the exposure her supervisor said, "Well you're not crazy". Score for me!! Yipee!! Now they will see her true colors when she goes nuts over there.

His boss also said that they have banned them from ever working together again. Another score for me!!!! But it doesn't mean they can't meet during lunch etc.

You are doing just super, my friend! When he comes home let him know that he has to leave that job or he has to move out. Stay focused on that point with him. Your marriage will NEVER recover as long as he continues to work there, so stay on point about that. Tell him that he will have to move out if he doesn't quit his job and end all contact with the OW. He may be mad enough to move out.

And if he does, don't be alarmed because I think that is what it will take to convince him he has to get out of there. He believes you won't do anything to make him stop. What you did today will show him otherwise!

And if he tries to start an argument after your ultimatum, just say, "I'm sorry you feel that way, would you like a potato chip?"

Like ML, I'm thinking that your not budging will play a big part in his mind. He's probably been thinking you won't make much more of a fuss.

I never thought of it that way when you said "He believes you won't do anything to make him stop. What you did today will show him otherwise!" That gives me hope

Thanks for all the advice and encouragement!

I May have missed this and apologize ahead a time if you already covered this.

Have you had a full STD panel done recently?

Yeah, he's used to me letting him do pretty much whatever he wants. No wonder he's acting like an alien, he's in alien territory with having an assertive wife! Go me!!!! LOL

No, I haven't yet because when I did research I found various things. Some said the HPV could lay dormant for many, many years and some said a few years. Boy, was I in denial. Oh well, past is the past.

I'll get that full STD panel done. Thanks for reminding me!

Yes that is true. There is no test for HPV currently and it can remain dormant. So even if your results come back clean do a 6 month follow-up.

If you do move to recovery, please make one of your conditions be to have your WH get tested.

You sound very well under the conditions you're in.

How are you doing? Sleeping? Eating?

I may be wrongbut I do not remember the OWH being exposed and provided with evidence. This is a key park of exposure.

I also told them about how I got HPV even though my husband is my only partner ever.

Consult a lawyer about suing WH for recklessly exposing you to carcinogenic viruses. I'm not kidding. With your sworn testimony about having had only Officer Donut for a partner, and your proof of his dalliance with Officer Cheesy Danish, it is not a hard job to get probable cause, which would be all that's needed for blood tests and viral matchups.

Sorry C, this guy and the "blue wall" is beginning to piss me off!

I am eating alright and trying to do the treadmill 5-6 days per week. That really helps.

I'm probably not eating quite like I should because so far I've lost 8 pounds in 2 months which I could lose another 10 anyway so I'm not too worried.

I am also suffering from hot flashes so I'm not sleeping a lot because of those. But I haven't been sleeping as well as I'd like. When it's been a bad day like these exposure days or when he locks himself in the spare bedroom I don't sleep as well. But it is getting easier as time goes. I'm starting to get used to not having him around. He really hasn't been around emotionally anyway so what's the difference. Even though it makes me sad! I just have to come to terms that it won't be like it was, but really I don't want it that way I want it better than before if possible. Thanks for asking!

I've tried to contact her spouse two separate times without success. I called him once the told him of the affair (missed the HPV part) and set up an appointment to deliver him evidence but he never showed up. Wifey probably got to him first and told him I was crazy. Then I tried to deliver the evidence to his work without success because he had already left. Now they are threatening restraining orders so I'm not sure how to proceed there.

I would get the evidence to him at work. Who threatened you with an RO? The STD skank?

Courageous: great job so far.

May I ask: did you leave copies in multiple hands?

If not, it may be useful for you to follow up with a written letter, addressed to the boss and cc'd, in a way that the boss can see, to the boss' boss (and/or to the head of Internal Affairs, and/or whoever else may be appropriate in their particular command structure).

Without meaning to cast any unwarranted aspersion upon anyone in blue who serves bravely & well, I'll simply say that men who put their lives on the line together are inculcated -- mostly for better, though sometimes for worse -- to have an instinct to be skeptical of people outside the "fraternity" and to cover each other's backs. Or each other's bums. As I'm sure you already know better than I.

If the only guy who's got your info is your husband's boss, then there's a chance he could bury it once the initial fuss dies down.

You don't want that.

You want the pressure on the affair to be unrelenting. You want their workplace to be no place of respite or escape.

If the boss knows that he's got other eyes on how he's handling your complaint -- eyes of people who could cause his career trouble if it were to be perceived that he failed to take appropriate action & allowed to fester a situation that reflects unbecomingly upon the larger Department -- then there'll be a higher likelihood that the affairees will be split up and otherwise disciplined in ways that drive home the costs of their wayward (mis)conduct in such ways as to make continuance of the affair a most unpalatable option, even for this pair of addled addicts.

I can't give you legal advice, but my layman's thought here would be to back it up, in writing, to multiple persons with cc's to all.

If you've already taken care of this angle, good on ya.

I already tried to deliver the evidence to his work. Should I mail it to him there?

Yes, it was the STD skank who is threatening an RO. She has twice now, and my WH was part of it once. Isn't that just lovely.

After I found out about the affair initally I was pretty upset and was throwing things out the front door and hitting him with a pillow etc. He reminded me that he could always call the cops and I would be the one arrested for domestic violence, but because he's a cop he could lose his job if he is involved in domestic violence. He didn't even have injuries. From a pillow, really!!!

Although there was a second time we got into it and he wouldn't let me in the bedroom to get my phone and I was pushing against the door pretty hard and the door hit him in the forehead and cut him. I got bruises the next day which I photographed, of course. I also have been keeping a diary of everything that is happening. How did we ever come to this, so sad

Do you have a friend who could deliver the evidence to him? If not, I would try to do it yourself. There is nothing skanky can do to you.

Failing that, I would send it to his workplace via registered mail. The reason I say get it there tomorrow is so you can get this exposure done as soon as possible. I suspect the OW has conned her husband into thinking there is no affair.

Does skanky have a facebook page?

I had four sets of documentation which was about 1 inch thick with phone records for a year, e-mails, naked picture, threatening text and my phone bill analysis. I also wrote the letter that I found on MB written by an attorney/member of MB about (paraphrased) using company resources and assets to carry on an affair. The 4 sets went to; HR director, WH boss, AP supervisor #1, AP supervisor #2. I requested that all four be there when I explained everything all in very much detail. I told the WHOLE story.

If I mailed it certified mail, can they come after me for harrassment?

I don't know about a facebook page. My husband doesn't do Facebook. I'll get to researching that.

They can't do anything to you. All you are doing is delivering evidence of the affair. Does the OW have a fb page?

Of course the OW can make threats. But that is all they are: empty threats.

Excellent.

Keep in mind that the OW can't get a RO against you for going to her husband's workplace. And if she TRIES to do such a thing, she only exposes her affair because your evidence will be brought into court.

She has big balls!!

R.O.? That's a laughable crock o'nonsense. In fact, if POSOW has violated any workplace laws or rules, then I'm not so sure that her threatening you with an R.O. as a means of 'silencing' you isn't skirting dangerously (for her) close to violation of whistlenblower-protection laws or other sorts of obstruction-of-justice on her part.

Again, that's not a legal opinion, just armchair-quarterback speculation on my part. But maybe you could hire a lawyer and have him send a follow-up note mentioning the threat & raising the question of whether it might be construed as obstruction, depending on what he advises. That'd sure put the biatch in a cold sweat! (Newspapers eat that stuff up, too!) You're holding the trump cards now, sister.

Can't find FB page at this point.

Yes she does. A MB warrior.

Do you know any of her friends or relatives that you can find on facebook? Also, she may have you blocked, so make up a fake fb page and see if you can see her.

Yep, if she persists in this idle threat, then I would actually beg her to take such actions so that you would have a legal, and public venue to produce you're evidence. Seriously, BEG her to do it. She'll slither away so fast you wouldn't believe.

I literally LOL'd when I read this. Wish we had more doormats around like you! You have done extraordinarily well for a dadgum "doormat" and "passive person".

Get that info to the OW's BH, and you also may want to consider sending this info one step higher in the command chain as well. This is brewing into a cover-up, and you should nip that immediately. I know this has been covered, but wanted to reemphasize for effect.

Truly impressed with you. Hang in there.

Thanks everyone!

Well done. You are doing so great.

Sorry, I just can't stop thinking about the richness of the irony:
She's in law enforcement and she's actually trying to threaten you to stop you from exposing workplace wrongdoing?

Well, as Jimmy Stewart said to Donna Reed in "It's a Wonderful Life" in another fortuitous (albeit differently so) circumstance:
"This... is a very interesting situation!"

Methinks her career is about to be launched on a corkscrew-shaped trajectory down Ye Olde Porcelain Bowle.
And who the hell wants an affair partner who can't even afford to pick up her half of the check once in awhile?

One of the biggest things in your favor, Courageous (aside from your aforementioned big, uh, characteristics), is that not only is your WH's affair partner mendacious & self-centered (as all waywards are), but she's also got a genuine STOOPID streak as wide as Lake Michigan...

He didn't come home last night after I did the workplace exposure yesterday morning. Six days ago I did nuclear exposure to about 29 friends, family and clergy. I haven't heard a peep from him since Tuesday evening, no calls or texts. Usually I freak out and call him to find out if he's ok and not dead on the road somewhere. This time I'm not contacting him AT ALL. If he never comes back I'm going to assume we're in Plan B and that I can count my lucky stars that he left first instead of him refusing to leave which he stated earlier.

I think he may eventually come back, but he is super, super pissed. He may just file for divorce. Oh, well! I'm preparing myself for the end just in case. I can't have a marriage with him still working with her and having contact with her. I still hold out hope that after his anger subsides that he'll return, but if he does he's going to have to work very, very hard to win me back. It seems like I've been working 110% and he's been working 20%. That will change!!!!!

Any thoughts out there? Is the Plan B assumption correct?

Usually in Plan B you write the letter stating that you want no contact with him and that if he wants to talk to me he has to talk to my intermediary. The letter also states the terms that he has to change jobs and stop all contact with her with a no contact letter and also that I'm still willing to work on the marriage. If he just never comes back, how can I get that letter to him? Any ideas? I'm probably thinking too far ahead.

Do you have any balance for him in your LB$ account? Or at least enough to generate a small Plan A of some extent?

Plan A is realistically your last chance to demonstrate the attractiveness of his giving up the wayward path and returning to you and your marriage. You play the part of the ideal spouse - you dress well, smell good, maintain emotional equilibrium, prepare his favorite meals - in short, BE his fantasy. I'm told though most BHs can be expected to continue thus for six months, most BWs, if they can do it at all, can only pull this off for three weeks, before his disinterest damages their fragile egos. (Although "fragility" hasn't seemed to be associated with your performance to date.)

Whatever. The point is that without a Plan A of some type, you'll never "know" that you did everything you could to pull (win?) him back.

While there are mythical stories of Plan B'd WSs returning, that's not a real good bet. Plan B usually becomes "Plan D Prep".

So what's left in your tank, C?

Just remember that the plan B letter is really a love letter.

Remind him of the great life you built together and talk about how you can restore the marriage to better than ever before! Show him that there is a path back.

But, the path is on your terms, not his.

No, it is not a "myth" that spouses return after Plan B, however, that misses the point of Plan B. The purpose is NOT to get a spouse back, but to protect the emotional well being of the BS. Plan B works every time in that aspect.

Plan B does not purport to save a marriage. All it does is protect the mental and physical health of the BS. If the WS does not end his/her affair, divorce is the definition of success in those cases. That is a GOOD THING, not a bad thing.

But before you go into Plan B, you want to make sure that the last thing he remembers are fond memories of the last time he was with you. You don't need to hang around for more Plan A because you have been doing that for months now. A prolonged Plan A works AGAINST a women because competing for a man is very unattractive.

Courageous, in your case, I would visit that attorney and find out your rights. Ask him to check the courts daily to see if your husband filed.

And if your husband shows up, ASK him to leave if he won't quit that job and end his affair. Get him out of the house before you concern yourself with Plan B, though.

I would - TODAY - somehow get that evidence to the OW's husband. You have the infidels on the ropes and now is the time to strike.

x 2

When OW (and even her BH who was also a WS) starting acting stupid with threats, I told them to bring it on...I'd kick their butts...they could kick their own butts...and all their dirty laundry will be out twisting in the wind for public consumption. Knock yourself out!!! They shut up real fast and slinked off.

If he does file, let him know you won't be "friends" and thank him for half of his pension.

Hang in there!!

If he comes back I'll make sure I do some more Plan A at least for a little bit because I didn't do both the friends/family exposure and work exposure at the same time. His love bank had 2 major withdrawals with those exposures only 6 days apart. I did a fairly good Plan A with several angry outburst when it first happened. It took me awhile to get on track with counseling and recovering from the shock and rejection before I could start Plan A. The good thing about doing Plan A is that if I do it longer and the result is divorce after I go into Plan B then I'll have lost all my love for him by then. The bank is getting pretty low right now with how he's been acting with locking himself in the spare bedroom for pretty much 6 days straight after the first exposure. Who is this man I married? He is so childish. I know it's the fog talking, but it's pretty hard to take. At least I've been loyal and loving.

When you say "Plan A works AGAINST a women because competing for a man is very unattractive". Do you mean two competing woman is unattractive from the man's perspective?

YES. It is a complete turn off to most men. It doesn't work for women and it only harms them by eroding their mental and physical state. That is why Harley recommends Plan A for only 3 to 4 weeks for betrayed wives.

Are you on ADs yet? Dr. H also recommends that for BSs as well. They help control angry outbursts and irrational behavior during infidelity.

Yes, I'm on anti-depressants and anxiety RX's They are helping alot. I've been on them since Dec 29th and I wish I would have started them sooner. I just don't want to get addicted to Xanax so I'm trying to control my use of that one.

At most you should be in Plan A for 3 weeks. Any more than that and you risk totally killing your desire to reconcile. But that being said, make it a good 3 weeks. You want him to really get used to having you, before you spring Plan B on him.

I did workplace affair exposure yesterday and WH did not come home last night. He probably stayed in a hotel because AP is married. I haven't heard anything from him and I know he's at work today. If he doesn't come home tonight should I text or call him?

I would like to do a bit more Plan A.

I would. Call him and text him. Express wifely concern

Nope, don't chase him at all. It won't be attractive and it will just wear you down. Just sit tight, my friend!!

That's what I was thinking was No because it looks like I'm needy. He needs to know that I can survive without him. Maybe he'll get worried I'm going to divorce him.

Yes, it would wear me down because all I would be thinking about was "Has he texted back yet?". I'm preparing myself for the fact that he may not come home tonight either. But he has to get clean clothes at some point. I know he hasn't because I work from home.

And he will just use any perceived neediness as leverage against you. It won't help your cause!

In fact, to show him how serious you are, why not pack his stuff up and have it waiting for him? You can have the discussion about how he either ends the affair or he needs to move out while staring at his packed up clothes! That will show how serious you really are. I think he will be shocked.

Do you live in a fault state or a no fault state? Does adultery count in your divorces?

Unfortunately it's a no fault state.

That's what I was thinking was No because it looks like I'm needy.

There being a critical difference between neediness and wifely concern, after twenty-four hours file a missing person report, and a request for a PINS (Person In Need of Supervision) evaluation. It would be great to watch him deal with those!

Since I did friends/family exposure 9 days and workplace affair exposure 2 days ago my WH hasn't been home since. He hasn't texted or called me at all. I see on Verzon where he made calls last night and I think he's been at work.

Its been two months since discovery and I was able to do at least 6 weeks of Plan A with a few bad days during that time. Husband said he wanted to work on marriage, but doesn't seem like he's working very hard and they've twice had contact since DD after he said he would not contact her.

Should I have his close friends try to contact him? I plan on staying dark and not
contacting him.

I figure he is punishing me for the exposure, but this is tearing me apart. Lord, give me strength.

I would just sit tight, C. I think he expects you to flip out and react to his no show act so he can use it as leverage to control you. When he sees the silent treatment won't work, I think you will hear from him. And that is when you have to be firm and let him that this is DONE unless he leaves that job and cuts off all contact.

This is why I want you to pack his clothes up. I want him to see that you are dead serious about all this. He either meets your conditions or he moves out.

This time, he shouldn't be able to come back and squat in the guest room without ending his affair and committing to recovery.

You are exactly right, C!! He is hoping you will flip out and he can regain control of you that way. You CANNOT let him know how you feel, my friend. You are not dealing with your husband, you are dealing with an alien WS who is lost in an affair.

If you want your husband back, the best way to do that is stand FIRM against his waywardism and stay in control. He comes back on your terms or not at all! That is the only way your marriage can survive.

ML, Thanks so much for your support and advice. You are giving me strength.

Should I have his close friends call him? I'm thinking NO after reading your last post.

Nope! Your husband is a big boy. He doesn't need someone to check on him. Doing so will indicate to him that his silent treatment is working on you. You don't even want to send that message to him.

Did you get the evidence to the OWH? PLEASE do this today so you can close the circle. He doesn't believe the affair is true, and now is the time to lower the boom.

I'll try a third attempt today to deliver a package to him at work. I'm worried about harassment charges so I'll call an attorney first thing this am. I may have a friend deliver it for me.

Getting OWH onboard would make it dramatically easier for you to bust up this affair. Since OW has been gaslighting her husband, you need a foolproof way of getting the evidence into his hands. Do you know any of OWH's colleagues, friends, or family? Perhaps you could show them the evidence and ask them to give it to him. If the evidence is presented by a trusted source, he may take it seriously.

C, why are you worried about this? Did the OW's HUSBAND make this threat? I thought it was the OW who made this threat?

Do you know how to get ahold of the OWH's MOTHER or sister? Does he have a facebook page?

Should I have his close friends call him?

Friend, you've read the game-plan here. If WH never does get his head out of his colon, you're likely to have to invoke Plan B. Officer Donut right now is just giving you a dry-run, risk-free practice opportunity! Use it!

The threats have all come from OW, but the first time I called him he seemed very willing to meet with me a couple hours later for me to give him the evidence and we set up a time and I gave him my phone number. Because I messed up by forewarning her 15 minutes before I called him I think she told him I was crazy so he didn't show up for the appointment.

And the second time I showed up at his work they told me he had already left and I didn't think I saw his vehicle out front but I may not know all their vehicles. That night she sent me that threatening text to stay away from his work and threatened restraining orders etc. I bet he was there, but wouldn't talk to me because he thinks I'm crazy. Why else would she send that text.

BH does not have a facebook page, I just checked. I think I know someone who knows who her parents are. I'm calling them next to get their name.

I agree! I have a practice opportunity. Thanks for shedding light on that for me

I appreciate the support!

That is what I thought. GO THERE and ask for him and hand him the evidence. Let that skank know she cannot bully you.

Exactly, she's trying to bully you. Show her exactly what her idle threats mean to you. Stay strong Courageous, you're doing fantastic.

How are things going, courageous? Were you able to get the info to the OWH?

You can read this from the history in my thread, but here is a synopsis. I exposed to 29 of WH friends, family and clergy on 1/9/13 and then told him all the people I exposed. I told him I loved him and wanted to save our marriage and then I proceeded to tell him all the people I have told. He was very angry, got divorce papers (never filled out) and locked himself in the spare bedroom for about 5 days when he wasn't working. On the 6th and 7th day he started to come out of the room and started talking a bit.

Then on 1/15/13 I tried a 2nd attempt at delivering evidence of the affair to the other betrayed spouse. The OW has him convinced that I'm crazy. At his work they said he had already left for the day. According to my WH the other betrayed spouse called my WH and said I tried to contact him at work. When I got home that evening my husband was locked in the spare bedroom and wouldn't respond at all to me. That evening the OW sent me a very threatening text that I better stay away from both of their work and that they would be getting restraining orders and have already alerted the cops. They called me crazy, blah, blah.

Well, I told myself "bring it on"!!! and exposed to their workplace the very next morning. She better not mess with me. This is a workplace affair. You can read about it on my thread.

After the workplace exposure my WH did not come home for three evenings. I have no idea where he was, probably at a hotel since she is married. I did not call or text him at all since he is probably figuring I will flip out when he doesn't come home.

When he finally came home on a Saturday morning I told him that there will be a divorce or separation if he doesn't 1) end the affair via a no contact letter that I approve, 2) get a different job and 3) get marriage counseling. I told him that everything will be on MY TERMS and NOT his terms. He said "I have ruined him" by exposing to every single one of our friends and to family and also to his workplace. I said "No, I didn't ruin you, you did".

It turned out that I had already had some friends coming over that evening to bring me dinner. I told him that they were coming over and since he can't face our friends right now he left again that evening to a hotel.

The next morning he came back looked really remorseful, caressed my face and said that "we've both hurt each other enough". I asked if he would write the no contact letter and after some hesitation he said yes he would. That afternoon we went to lunch and he treated me very, very well with opening my cars doors and taking me shopping. It felt like he was really trying to work on things.

That night I asked him again if he would write the no contact letter the next day and he said he didn't know. I reminded him of the three things I needed (see above).

That was Sunday of this week. Since then things have been alot better, but he still hasn't written the no contact letter and hasn't talked about quitting his job. He has been complimenting me and saying he loves me without me telling him first that I love him (which he usually never does). He has been doing nice things for me that he usually doesn't do. I have seen a major change in him since the exposure of friends and workplace.

Do you think his change is for real? The other night I told him that I'm not sharing him and he told me that it is over with her and that he hasn't even seen her since before Christmas.

After I did the workplace exposure they are not allowed to work together anymore. They work for the same agency, but in different departments and buildings, but the buildings are on the same block.

In Dr H's book when you are in recovery he states that every time you talk about the affair that it takes withdrawals out of the love bank. Should I not talk about it anymore or should I keep pressing him on complying with my terms? My gut tells me to keep pressing. Do I keep allowing more time for the full-blown exposure to do it's work?

"Do you think his change is for real? The other night I told him that I'm not sharing him and he told me that it is over with her and that he hasn't even seen her since before Christmas. "

Nope, there are no changes ere at all. You are not even at first base. You are in a false recovery. He just calmed you down so you won't expose to the OWs husband so he can continue his affair. Every day he sees the OW at work so recovery is impossible. I would give him exactly 3 weeks to quit his job and meet all your conditions. If he is not out of that workplace and meeting EVERY condition of yours, then you should separate.

I am sorry but he has not even taken the first step. Until he takes the first step you can't take the next steps.

And I would not rest until you have the evidence in the OW husband 's hands. He doesn't know about the affair.

C, he does not believe you are serious so I would quickly disabuse him of that notion by telling him he meets your conditions NOW or he gets out. But he won't meet your conditions because he is not done with the affair. That is evidenced by his refusal to write a no contact letter that you can both hand deliver to the OW and her husband. Will He agree to that?

Will he agree to put his 3 week notice tomorrow? Will he agree to give you the full truth about the affair and even take a polygraph if necessary? Wll he agree to give you his phone and give you passwords to all his email and phone accounts? His workplace email?

See, those are basic extraordinary precautions that are necessary to end an affair. I seriously doubt it. EPs are not negotiable. Will he agree to them all? If not, you are in a false recovery and have signed up for a death of a thousand cuts that is worse than the initial finding of the affair.

You can't just expose and stop there. Every day you allow him to continue this way is another day of leverage that you LOSE from the effect of e exposure. The affair has not been killed and will rise again like a Phoenix if you don't drive a stake in its heart NOW. It's strength grows every day that passes.

"Do you think his change is for real? The other night I told him that I'm not sharing him and he told me that it is over with her and that he hasn't even seen her since before Christmas. "

This is a lie, by the way. He was with her when he was gone.

In Dr H's book when you are in recovery he states that every time you talk about the affair that it takes withdrawals out of the love bank.

You are taking this advice out of the context for which it was written. Talking about the A is counterproductive after NC is established, the MB Plan is being followed, and recovery is in progress.

On that scorecard, "Officer Donut" is 0 for 3!

It takes less than forty-five minutes to write out the NC letter frrom the models here. Throw him out until he delivers it. Or, contact your lawyer, your choice!

Courageous

I'm am afraid you are being haslighted big time, there is no reason for him to refuse or drag out writing an NC letter if the A is truly over.

He tried throwing a strop you ignored it so he is trying to get his way by playing the Mr nice guy card.

Please do not back down on NC letter and do not stop trying to contact the BH or getting the evidence to him. Unless the BH himself contacts you to say he does not wish to be approached by you, you are not legally doing anything wrong so any threats of a RO are useless and just an attempt by the OW to scare you.

False recovery is painful and can be just as damaging as an A. if you do this right the first time you will save yourself some serious pain and suffering.

You are a very strong lady and I admire how hard you fought for your marriage at the start of this thread please don't stop now.

Good luck

Courageous. The only thing that has changed is that your WH has learned that if he he sweet talks you then you will back off on your conditions. Then he can continue to see OW everyday at work and remain in his fantasy cake eating world.

I'm sorry courageous...my FWH did the same thing and it is even more heartbreaking to discover that they are STILL lying to you despite having seen the pain they already caused you.

It's an addiction. Don't back down on your conditions.

I agree with the others. Please stay strong with your conditions. The NC letter is not negotiable.

Please read this.
Please Explain Gaslighting 2482787#Post2482

Courageous,

You did a great job of exposing to his friends, family, and work. And you stood up to the POSOW and to your cheating husband. Good job!

You did a great job of also setting conditions for his return.

He has not met those conditions, so you must muster the same resolve as you did when you exposed.

Let him know immediately that he is not taking you seriously and that he must leave. He has had time to follow through. Give him 24 hours to comply. Be firm and resolute on your conditions.

If he leaves, you can either stay in plan a or you can go to plan b. It doesn't mean its over, but it does show that you mean what you say and you say what you mean. He needs to know that the limits you set are real. If they are not, he will tread all over them and this will go on and on.

I concur!

Courageous, please do not snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. You are SO CLOSE. You just have to close the deal. He either complies or he moves out. And THEN you go into a dark Plan B.

Listen to the people on here. The path to recovery in narrow. Follow the procedures. These people are trying to help you but you have to listen and act.

Courageous, please do not snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

C's last post was 24 January. I'm getting a bad feeling.....

I hope she is not another BS who fell for a sweet-talking- gas-lighting-cake eating wayward's lies

As do I. never had a FR but I can bet its very hurtful

The evening of my last post I talked to my WH again and told him that I have to have the no contact letter. He refused because there is no need because they aren't allowed to work together anymore anyway and she's already super pissed at him and myself for the workplace exposure so he said he's sure that she doesn't want anything to do with him and that's it over. He said that he doesn't want her to get "fired up" again because he's afraid how she'll react since last time she sent me threatening texts etc. I so don't believe him and what about how it hurts me. Where is the remorse? This just hurts so bad. I told him I still wanted the letter and he refused. I understand and believe that I am in a false recovery.

I finally did friends and family exposure on 01/9/13 and workplace exposure on 01/16/13. I see some signs that the fog may be lifting after exposure, but at the same time realize that for the fog to completely lift he has to have no contact and for him to change jobs. He told me two days ago that he has not heard a word from her and I can tell from his cell phone that there has not been contact since 1/13/13, but that doesn't mean she can't call him on his work line or see him at work. I don't think I can believe him.

I signed up for counseling with Steve Harley and he said that he is still in the fog and that he HAS to write the no contact letter. SH also said that WH and myself need to develop a goal for our marriage, educate ourselves together about marriage and infidelity and develope a plan together and then execute that plan. Part of educating my WH is for him to become informed about how important it is for my WH to cut all contact with OW. I talked to my WH last night and he is willing to look at this website to become informed. Do you think he may be starting to come out of the fog since the exposure and learn how important it is to cut all contact?

I have another counseling session with SH tomorrow. I can't leave the home right now and go into Plan B because my CPA business is run from our home and it is very, very stressful for me in my business right now because it's tax season not to mention the pain and stress from the infidelity.

As far as contact with the other BS. I have made three attempts to contact him and haven't been successful because he is being gaslighted by the OW and he thinks I'm crazy. The first attempt I did talk to him and told him about the affair, but I don't think he believes me because she is telling him I'm crazy. Also they have already told me to stop contact. I contacted an attorney and since they have told me to stop contact I cannot pursue because I could get charged with misdemeanor harassment. As a CPA I am held to a higher standard and my pursuing the other BS leads credibility into the "crazy" person defense that they may have. I can't risk my CPA career because I have to have it if it ends in divorce.

I will work on this again tonight with my WH and work on the no contact letter and talk to SH again in the morning.

Why not send your evidence to the OWH in a certified mail package? That should take care of that!

I am glad to hear you are coaching with Steve Harley! There is not much hope here if he won't leave the job so maybe Steve can get through to him.

I would insist on the NC letter, Courageous. Him not doing it is showing you that he is still putting OW before you and is very likely still in the affair. Be firm on that. Be prepared to tell WH that if he insists on allowing a third person in the marriage, then you insist that he leaves.

Mail the evidence to OWH like MelodyLane suggested.

I've thought about sending the package certified mail. Would that still be considered contact, legally speaking? Maybe I'll contact my attorney.

The night that I talked to my husband on 1/24/13 I started talking about the extraordinary precautions that have to be in place and also about the need for a no contact letter. When I talked to Steve he said that from my WH's point of view this is just a list of do's and dont's and he will perceive this as punishment. Steve has helped me with the correct wording when I talk to my WH so it won't seem like a list of demands. What do you think of Steve's plan so far? So far my WH hasn't responded so well to threats, but also I know that's what it might take. I'm so torn. I'm going to keep counseling with Steve and heed his advice. Your thoughts?

I will keep insisting on the NC letter.

That's exactly what Steve Harley said "he is still putting OW before you".

I'm thinking that my assumption that he's coming out of the fog during the last week is wrong and that this is still just false recovery. I'm right, huh?

There is nothing stopping you from you from contacting him, though. All you have to do is mail the evidence. Your attorney will tell you not to do it because their approach is to avoid all conflict at any cost. He doesnt care, obviously, if you save your marriage.

Not getting the proper evidence to the OWH is a huge miss that only enables the affair. You don't need to consult an attorney to send him the evidence.

I would not let up until you finish this exposure. This exposure is the MOST IMPORTANT exposure of all. Your H is free to continue contact with OW as long as he doesn't know.

Yes. He should not be that concerned about OW's reaction. This is a red flag!

As long as he continues to see the OW at work every day, his fog will persist and you are facing an on again, off again affair. They can see each other at any time.

Courageous:
this is exactly what I went through, unwittingly, for over 5 months. Everything at his work will be a reminder to him, and give him another hit of the crack pipe. Do not allow this to drag on. FR is so much more difficult to recover from!

Another thing to consider is that if the OW did seek legal action, it would be a great opportunity to bring your evidence to court and get it on record. It is not in her best interest to pursue legal action because she won't want her dirty laundry exposed in court.

She is just making idle threats to keep you from interfering with her affair with your husband. Do you want to interfere in his affair?

My fiance and I have had several counseling sessions with Steve, and it has worked wonders. Steve had an individual session with each of us, and then counseled both of us together for the remaining sessions (3-way phone calls). I think your best bet at saving this marriage is to get your husband to agree to phone counseling sessions with Steve. You might be saying the exact same thing as Steve, but if the words come from Steve instead of you, your H is likely to be much more receptive. If Steve can convince your H of the logic behind the MB approach to recovery, you could start seeing real progress fairly quickly.

I totally agree with you that my WH is free to continue contact with OW as long as he doesn't know. I need to mail it to his work ASAP. Thanks for giving me courage. It's a risk I have to take. What's more important my career or my marriage anyway

Catwhit,

Are you still working on your marriage or did it end?

I agree. She doesn't want the dirty laundry exposed.

JessicaClaire,

Thanks for the information about Steve Harley. I definitely was encouraged after talking to him. My hard part is getting my WH to talk to him. Steve had me suggest that he call Steve, but so far my WH hasn't taken the bait. I'll try again tonight.

Courageous

I am so glad you are back and that your are still on board with MB.

There are several creative ways you can ensure that the OW BH gets the information package without risking any legal action like enlisting a friend to deliver it for you or getting her to send it recorded delivery for you.

The evidence you have (photos, emails etc) is very strong therefore IMO you don't have to deliver it yourself or talk to the BH and your edvidence will say it all proving you are not as crazy as the OW wants to make you out to be.

Best outcome of exposure is that the OW BH will get het to quit her job.

I was threatened with legal action by the OW uncle but he soon shut up when I pointed out all I did was tell the truth and you can't do anything legally to someone who is simply telling the facts of an event that has happened. I never heard from him again and I suspect you will not face any legal issues either as your not doing anything wrong.

Good girl! You have a distinct advantage, so don't allow skanky to intimidate you.

Still working, Courageous. WH finally dropped the Dolly... after had 2nd D-Day. They worked together, but had sworn to "business only" contact, after first D-Day. Then, my WH lied to my face daily for 5 months. This was an awful discovery for me. Healing will take much longer than if I had done nuclear exposure at D-Day 1, and insisted on immediate job transfer for WH.

This gives me hope! Thanks Catwhit!

Did he change jobs?

I have a friend who is willing to deliver the package to his work for me, but I'm thinking of mailing the package certified as opposed to having a friend deliver it since the last time I went to his work he obviously was there, but they told me he had already left for the day. His work is obviously on the lookout for anyone delivering a package. Also his work is in a town about an hour away from here and it's the type of business that they don't get alot of people stopping by so anyone dropping in could alert them.

I'm trying to figure out how to address the package. Should I address the package in his name with "C/O" his works name or should I not even put his name on the address? Of course there would have to be his name on the inside. I'm thinking of using a return address of my friend's address that is unknown to my WH.

Yes. He wanted to move from that job any way, so it wasn't difficult to convince him. And I had an ally in his new boss, to whom I exposed the A ( not hard for me because my WH had worked for him before.) But, it still took 5 months to effect the transfer, which kept getting dragged out.

Taffy (my WH) says now it was his intention to keep it "just business" after D-Day 1, until he could get transferred. His resolve lasted the week while we were still on vacation. First day he got back to work, his resistance crumbled. Convinced the Dolly the NC letter was me pressuring him.

Then, after we actually moved out of the country, 3000 miles away, he was initially relieved as he could put it all behind him and go NC with her, as he had been telling me. That lasted one day. Then he was right back to texting her, begging her to run away with him.

When I finally discovered it all (found the special account emails and texts, etc.), he was really relieved to finally have some accountability to end it and go through withdrawal. I did learn to be MUCH better at verifying, though...

So yes, there is hope. But be extra diligent about following the steps. The vets will not steer you wrong. Don't over think it. Just do whatever they tell you. Wish I had wised up earlier...

Thanks for the advice on not over thinking things which I have indeed been doing. I need to just do it and trust the vets.

My only problem with his changing jobs is that most days he really loves his job.

Thanks again for your encouragement. You have no idea how much it helps. This is so darn difficult. At least I'll be stronger when it's over.

I think at his job only his two immediate supervisors know. I'm thinking about exposing to some co-workers. Several of his co-workers are my clients. Any thoughts?


And, of course, I'll be mailing that package to the other BS in my fourth attempt.

That is only a problem if he won't leave the job. If he won't leave, that means he puts his career before your marriage and makes recovery impossible. He will have to find a job that complements his marriage if he wants to stay married.

What if you sent it certified/registered with just the company name and then inside put an envelope with the evidence with his name written across it with "personal and confidential."

Also on the workplace exposure, does someone higher up than their supervisors know about the affair? What about human resources?

I totally agree, he has to quit his job otherwise he is putting his career before our marriage. I guess deep down I'm afraid he'll pick his career instead of me. If that's the case he's not worth keeping anyway. It just makes me really sad.

I love your advice on how to address the package. I hadn't thought of that option. Thanks!

Yes, human resources knows. I went to them directly and had them get his immediate supervisor and her two immediate supervisors. I just wish more of his co-workers knew so he was more disgraced and embarrassed that a new job would be more appealing to get away from the embarrassment.

If he won't dump the job, it means he is not committed to the marriage. Better to find out sooner, if that's the case.

One thought: If he itemizes what he really loves about his job, it can help him focus on finding the next one....which could be even better....

On 1/20/13 and 01/24/13 I told my husband that I needed three things or there would be a divorce or separation

1. A NC letter to OW
2. Change in jobs since it's a workplace affair
3. Marriage counseling

He has refused all three and has only shown remorse a few times. Tonight I asked for those three things again and he refused again so I told him a divorce was in order and we started to fill out paperwork to get the divorce proceedings going. I told him he would be hearing from my attorney and told him how things would end up that I would get 50% and that he may even end up paying me alimony since I am the lower income maker. While we started working on the divorce papers I told him several times that I loved him and that I would still like to work on the marriage, but I need those three things. He said it's too late and he still wasn't going to give me those things. That's the fog talking right? Or maybe it really is over? If it is over then I guess it's better that I get out now instead of him not complying with my terms and he cheats again a few years from now. I have to stay tough on my terms.

Also, there have been two separate contacts on 12/20/13 and 01/12/13 after he said that contact had stopped.

I discovered the 18 month workplace EA turned PA on 11/13/12. I have suspected the affair for several years. After I picked my self up after being destroyed by this thing I finally got the courage to do nuclear friend and family exposure on 1/9/13 and workplace exposure on 1/16/13. He says there is no more contact because their workplace won't let them work together anymore, but he refuses to write the NC letter because he doesn't want to get her fired up. Blah, Blah, Blah. He is so deep in the fog I just can't take it anymore.

My CPA practice is on our home property and I was planning on staying in the house until after tax season, but he won't leave the property. I know I need to go into Plan B with total darkness. I can move my business into my father's house. I probably should go into complete darkness ASAP so he will see what a divorce will be like.

Has anyone else been in my situation and can give advice?

That's the fog talking.

Plan B, totally dark, sounds like a great idea, but be sure that you implement it with precautions in place. You want to make sure that all holes are plugged and he can't get through

What do you mean "be sure that you implement it with precautions in place"?

Do you mean that I have the intermediary in place, etc. He will know where I go since I'll be living at my dad's house.

It's probably not a good idea to stay living in the house because I need to do a dark Plan B, right?

Will this get him out of the fog? Anyone with experience in this area?

Yes -- have the IM in place, autoforward all his email into a junk folder if he keeps emailing you, don't answer your phone if it's him (if possible get a new number so he has no choice but to call the IM...etc. The vets will have better suggestions)

The purpose of Plan B is to protect YOU, Courageous, and any remaining love you have for your WH. Have you read about Plan B on the site here?

I won't advise as I have no Plan B experience. Others will...

(((((Courageous)))))

Did I make a mistake by enforcing and staying firm on my terms? He has to know I'm serious, right? This is so scary, but what kind of marriage will I have if he won't do the NC letter, leave his job and get marriage counseling.

Can you believe tonight that he said that "I need counseling". I already had several counseling sessions.

Yes, I have read up on Plan B and do have the book "Surviving an Affair".

I just hope I didn't make a mistake. I am losing my love for him pretty darn quick and yes my health is suffering. I've been in Plan A for over two months now.

The purpose of Plan B is ONLY to protect you from his abuse, it is not intended to save a marriage. He is still in an active affair and goes to see her every day at work. If he won't take the necessary steps for recovery, this is hopeless. Your husband is not serious in any, way, shape or form. He still believes he can have both you and the OW.

Did you send the evidence to the OWH?

Also, I would strongly suggest you visit an attorney and keep all your legal dealings with him. Ask that attorney to get your husband moved out since your business is right there.

But yes, you do have to be physically separated before you go into Plan B.

You did the right thing. You don't have a marriage otherwise. And he won't take you seriously unless you are serious. Being firm about your conditions is a must. You did good!


You need counseling ..............for WHAT? Sticking up for yourself?

I am mailing the evidence to OWH tomorrow.

I have already talked to two divorce attorneys and placed a call today to engage one of the attorneys to file the divorce papers.

I was planning on moving in with my elderly father, but my WH will probably know that's where I will be. Should I try to go somewhere else so he doesn't know where I'll be going?

ML, thanks for all of your wonderful support. I so totally need that right now as this is the scariest thing I've ever done.

He is not used to me being firm and sticking up for myself so he is in unfamiliar territory.

Have you seen many marriages recover after going into Plan B? I have seen other people post that my WH didn't get out of the fog and return until I served divorce papers and went into Plan B.

Good deal!


Can you file on grounds in your state?


Thats just fine if he knows. As long as you don't allow him to contact you. It will be up to you to keep him out. Did you read the thread on how to do Plan B? My suggestion would be to get moved out [or get him out], get situated, and then go into Plan B. But like you pointed out, you have already been in Plan A for 2 months and Dr Harley only recommends 3 to 4 weeks before women start experiencing severe emotional and physical symptoms. And it comes on FAST, so you are doing the right thing in getting into Plan B before this gets real bad.

IT would be much better if you could get him to move out, though. Can you think of a way to do that?

No I can't file on grounds in my state, but I do have an awesome "pit bull" type of divorce attorney so maybe she can fight for me.

Yes, I agree that it's a good thing for me to get out because it's tax season for my CPA business and I already have enough stress as it is. I need to get away from this extra stress. Since you said that the severe emotional and physical problems come on fast it is good that I get this done.

My WH is in law enforcement and tonight refused to leave the house. He is very familiar with his rights, but I will ask my attorney tomorrow if she has any way in which to get him removed since my business is here. He will probably state that I have to pay all the mortgage and home expenses until the divorce is final which I wouldn't be able to afford. My business hasn't been making tons of money lately because it's been so hard to work since my life has been total chaos lately.

You suggested getting moved out and then going into Plan B. I always thought it had to be done simultaneously so this is helping me alot. It will be a big job to move my business to my father's house so this helps also. I will read up again on Plan B. If I recall the Plan B has to happen without the WH expecting it at all. It should come as a total shock.

As far as the intermediary (IM). I read on this site somewhere that it's best that that IM not be a family member. Is there anything to that? Your thoughts?

Also, once in Plan B I totally understand that I can't have ANY contact with him whatsoever, everything has to go through the IM or my attorney.

Did I make a mistake by enforcing and staying firm on my terms?

Absolutely not! That is EXACTLY THE POINT! If your "terms" are not irreducible, then what are they, talking points?

All you are asking him to do is reject his adulterous life-choices and return to the exclusivity of the marital union. Hello? Didn't he already kinda make that commitment to you, years ago, in front of witnesses, in a church someplace?

As you discuss with your lawyer (and too bad you are through "chatting" with Officer Donut, to remind him) remember also that you WILL be pursuing 50% of his pension credits earned to date. Given the usual expectations of LEPs in that arena, this ought to make him want to !

yah!!


And he would still have to pay the bills if he did move out.


See, going into Plan B involves giving him a Plan B letter saying you will have no contact with him. If you are still there, he will be able to contact you. So its better to get moved out or get him out, get situated and THEN give him the Plan B letter and go dark.


Exactly!


It is not ideal but if you don't have anyone else, it can work. You need someone who will agree to hold a NEUTRAL stance with the WS and only pass on pertinent information about finances to you. Nothing else should get through.


Exactly.

He actually said tonight that I was psychotic. We were talking calmly. Comments like that sure drain my love bank. I so need out of here.

Of course when I first discovered the affair I was very angry and threw things out the front door and we got a bit physical a couple times where I tore his shirt, but what does he expect for me to NOT get angry right after I discover the affair. He can't see any of my pain. He has hardly any remorse. It hurts so very bad

I am so sorry, friend... {{{{{{{{{{{{{Courageous}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

This doesn't mean it is over, just that he is not ready yet. I am hopeful that getting that evidence to the OWH will have an impact on his affair.

Do you have a VAR? Since he's in law enforcement and knows the laws be careful. He can try and turn things on you and say you need to be locked up. Have a VAR on you to protect yourself from false allegations.

Listen to Brainy about the VAR. Trust me on this.

What is a VAR?

Voice Activated Recorder

Tonight I told him how everything would be split up including his 401(K) (he doesn't really get a pension). I told him that he would have to refinance the house to be able to pay me off and that there is a good chance that he may have to pay me alimony since my business hasn't been doing so well lately (according to my attorney).

I will get a VAR tomorrow. I know that WH uses one all the time for work so I'll get mine too.

I have already been documenting conversations and dates we have had for months as a paper trail. Voice recordings will just be another layer of proof.

Yes, here.
VAR

Put no stock in anything he says. He is in the fog, replaced by an alien. I know, easier said than done... Sounds like he is trying to bait you.

And you're right, he has no remorse, right now. I know how awfully this hurts. File it in a different compartment in your brain. You can put it all into the"Ridiculous things Waywards Say" thread later. (Maybe you will win the prize with his idioctic blathering.... kidding...) It's therapeutic. As much as you can, for now, keep unemotional, disengaged. Focus on the tasks Mel has outlined.

You can do this.

Absolutely! There are no guarantees, of course, but it is always a possibility. And the beauty of Plan B is that if he doesn't get on board, you will be so detached at that point that you will have the calm judgement to move to divorce if you have to.

You will feel better in about 2 weeks on Plan B than you have felt in months. It won't be easy the first 2 weeks, but after that, you can expect a sense of peace.

Thanks for reminding me that this is alien language with the fog. Where is the husband I once knew. He can be so cruel.

I appreciate the advice to keep unemotional and disengaged. This is the only thing that will save me.

Yes, you're right! I can do this.

Thanks everyone! I couldn't do it without you.

Thanks for the reassurance. I'm looking forward to that peace after two weeks.

I will warn you that your husband will go crazy when you go dark. He won't like losing control of you and will try anything to get through to you. If that fails, he might have an attorney threaten you about no contact. This is what typically happens and you have to be prepared to cut off any potential path. For example, set up your email to bounce his emails to your IM. Screen your calls, don't listen to any voicemails and delete any text messages.

I would thinking about ways he might try to get through and taking a pro-active approach to blocking him.

This is so scary! I'm terrified! I felt the same way about both nuclear family/friend and workplace exposure, but it turned out that he came back.

Some of my family thinks I was too harsh on WH with the nuclear exposure, but darn it they don't have to go through this tremendous pain that is almost unbearable.

I keep thinking that I'm making a mistake by going into Plan B in a week and filing either divorce or separation papers. Here are my reasons.

He has never actually said the words "I'm sorry" buy did so very nicely in a card that seemed very remorseful. He said once that it wasn't my fault and that he screwed up. He has not acted remorseful since then.

He refuses to change jobs.

He refuses to do no contact letter after several requests. He says letter is not needed because it's over and that they are banned from working together after my workplace exposure. Also he doesn't want to get her all fired up, blah blah blah.

He refuses to go to counseling even though he says he wants to work on the marriage.

I've caught him in numerous lies since DD.

He says he will never give me details of the affair even though I tell him I need it to heal.

He has broken no contact pledge twice since discovery on 11/13/12.

I've done a fairly good Plan A but I just can't take the pain anymore. Help please, is it going to be ok?

I need advice on how to get through each day. I have tremendous work stress right now and it's very very hard to concentrate on work.

I have no experience with Plan B, but I have read many threads about it, and see the result on the betrayed spouse, now removed from the toxic environment of an unrepentant adulterous spouse. You will, within a few weeks, find peace within Plan B, but only if you stay dark.

Are you on ADs? If not, please strongly consider seeing your doctor and getting some help through this very traumatic time in your life.

Yes, this is scary and painful, but what is scarier and even MORE painful is taking back an unrepentant spouse, living with a unrecovered marriage, possibly experiencing this again. That is MUCH worse. You will suffer the least by going into Plan B.

In the meanwhile, what to do in your everyday walk of life? Start by getting some exercise, eat right, have a few really good friends. Take up a hobby that you will enjoy.

If you are having trouble concentrating on your business this year, perhaps you can consider taking on help, maybe an intern who will work for less pay in exchange for job knowledge.

Don't listen to people who believe you were "harsh" in exposing your husband's adultery. Good grief! These people don't have experience with affairs, do they? Have they helped thousands of couples find their way to peace, either within their marriage or on their own? NO! So don't listen to them! They know NOTHING about recovering from an affair.

He is not remorseful. He does not see your pain. (Nor does your family who says you are overreacting... They don't know MB...) WH is deep in the fog.
Forget about the card he gave you. I have a collection of 20 from my WH, during FR, all expressing his love for me. Painful now. Mostly, they were to throw me off the scent...

NC letter absolutely IS required. Taffy gave me the exact same bull chit excuses.

New job absolutely IS required. He cannot get out of he fog until he's outta there...

Plan B will bring you the peace and clarity you need now.

Breathe.

You can do this.

If he moves out and you stay in the house, you will have to pay all of the bills associated with the house. (I know this from personal experience.) However, since he earns more than you, he will be obligated to pay spousal support. That should enable you to pay the bills.

I think it just depends on a lot of factors. She needs to see an attorney. When I separated from my now xh he was ordered to pay half the mortgage in addition to cs.

Either way, whatever happens legally, you need relief from his cruelty. I know it is terrifying but as others have said you will feel better within a few weeks if you can get away from him.

I keep thinking that I'm making a mistake by going into Plan B in a week and filing either divorce or separation papers. Here are my reasons.

Well, friend, you do a fine job of making the argument I was about to make. (The green are things that are hopeful; the red, not so much.)

He has never actually said the words "I'm sorry" but did so very nicely in a card that seemed very remorseful. He said once that it wasn't my fault and that he screwed up. He has not acted remorseful since then.

He refuses to change jobs.

He refuses to do no contact letter after several requests. He says letter is not needed because it's over and that they are banned from working together after my workplace exposure. Also he doesn't want to get her all fired up, blah blah blah.

He refuses to go to counseling even though he says he wants to work on the marriage.

I've caught him in numerous lies since DD.

He says he will never give me details of the affair even though I tell him I need it to heal.

He has broken no contact pledge twice since discovery on 11/13/12.

But your key concern you saved for the end, and this I can comment on.

Help please, is it going to be ok?

Kiddo, is it in any way "OK" now?

It helped me to make to-do lists. I scheduled breakfast, lunch, dinner, household tasks, work tasks, reading and other recreational activities. I even scheduled brushing my teeth and bathing.

Also follow the plan B advice. I didn't to the letter because I thought my WH was so hardened and calloused that he wouldn't try to contact me. I was wrong.


Take care of yourself. It really does get better when you're away from the madness.

LOL, I had lists too! I had to move out of the house with the 4 kids so my lists included what had to be turned off at old house, what had to be turned on at new house. I had a list for the lawyer and then my favorite was my shopping list for my new place. I did a lot of journaling as well.

I am confused! All of these are reasons why you SHOULD go into Plan B!

Don't get cold feet! You have a plan follow through. He will say and do anything to continue his cake eating. Unless he agrees to a marriage program of your choosing and write a NC letter you can bet your bottom dollar the affair is still on just underground. My WW said the same things. "I let him go cause he's a nice guy and doesn't deserve this drama in his life." Yet, she refused to do the NC letter. Now she has moved out (my behest) and continues her affair! One thing about affairs the faces and names are different but the behavior is ALWAYS the same. Please read other threads and you will see the similarities.

It's been awhile since I've posted so I wanted to give you an update. I've been very busy at work.

I didn't have to go into Plan B. The full blown exposure and threat of divorce finally got him out of the fog. I had him actually sit down to fill out divorce papers, I called back my divorce attorney right in front of him and I opened up separate bank accounts. I think he thought I was bluffing. Boy, was that really hard to do.

God has given me such comfort and strength during this trying time. I couldn't have done it without Him. We are now in recovery. WS and myself are now both in counseling with Steve Harley from MB. Steve is just wonderful and helping so very much.

Our marriage is seeing great improvement and we're both very hopeful we can make it through this time. It's so nice to have my WS back out of the fog.

Thank you to everyone here who helped me gain the courage to expose and offered great advice.

If I post again I need to start a new thread in the Recovery Forum is that correct?

This is great news, Courageous and I'm so glad that you are coaching with Steve. He's wonderful!

You can start a new thread in Recovery, if you would like. It's not mandatory though

That is awesome news! I'm really glad that your fight against adultery was successful! May God bless you with a splendid recovery!

I'm glad you're coaching with Steve.

What EPs have your WH put in place?

Did he quit his job?

Have ALL conditions that allowed his affair been eliminated?

Have you seen these?

False Recovery-Need Voices of Experience
False Recovery