I've attempted to call her but she never answers my calls. I've texted her asking why she is doing this, why she called and lied to me about her relationship with my WH. I told her that my children cry for their dad and should I have my oldest DD call her with all the questions as she was only 7 years younger. Of course, I've had no reply. Am I just making things worse by texting her these things?

It's usually a waste of time to contact the OW unless she doesn't know WS is married. The point is, she doesn't CARE about you or your children. Otherwise she would not have gotten involved with a married man with children and a baby on the way.

She is young and stupid. Better not to give her a moment of your time.

Your OW is a 19 yr old ho who knows your H is married and does not care. Don't speak to ppl like that, hon. Instead, expose the affair to her parents.

I have no way of finding out who her parents are. I wish I could, but they don't live around here. I wish I could find out.

You always tell me the right things. In my head I know that you are right, then I think....why the hell would he leave me to assumably (spelling?) start something with someone who could give a crap about his kids! Then, I think about the abducted by aliens thing....lol.

What have you tried so far?

I've tried speaking with her boss and coworkers but of course no one can tell me anything. I'm getting ready to contact her ex boyfriend (the one that just broke up with her) on myspace and see if I can get any information from him. Any other suggestions?

Go to wwww.peoplefinder.com and www.zabasearch.com and do a search to see if her parents name comes up when you type in her name. If so, check directory assistance and get their phone #s. Call them up, disguising your # with *67, and ask if they are her parents. If they say no, ask if they are related. Tell them you are trying to get ahold of OW and need her parents #.

You know her last name, right? Did you check the phone book to see if you could find her parents?

I know her last name, but I'm not sure of the spelling. Her boss (or I should say ex boss) is my best friends mom, so I need to get that from her.

Does she have a cell phone or a landline? You might be able to get her name from doing a reverse lookup on www.anywho.com by putting in her #.

Ugh they just give me the location of where her parents live...which I already knew. *sigh* Unless I want to pay for the info, which I don't.

What do you mean? That should be all you need to get their phone # and address. Did you get that?

No, they just give the city that they live in.

ok............... Did you look up the phone # and address?

Are you saying the phone # and address are unlisted in the phone book? Which places did you check?

Well I just had a horrible blow out with my H who called because of the texts I sent to the OW. He says that I'm crazy and not emotionally ready to be in a relationship with anyone. The OW makes him feel good about himself and he enjoys spending time with her. He still insists that he is not sleeping with her and blah, blah, blah. I just feel like crap now. Nothing gets through to him and all he can say about how I feel is "I'm sorry". And he has re-written our marital history. It just seems hopeless. I really don't think that we are going to reconcile.

Why are you putting yourself through this?

You really need to stop talking to him until you are starting to feel better. OF COURSE he is calling you crazy - you are interfering with his AFFAIR. He is going according to the WS manual.

Hi, I am compelled to reply to your latest post!

Of course your WH is going to defend her...sickening, yes I know. Been there. I had a similar conversation with my WH except the OW was the one to try to call me then text me..it was all a set up. A set up that I fell for.

Don't text OW. I am only 27 and the OW just turned 20...and yes while I may be only 7 yrs older, her mind-set is very fresh. Don't call her, don't text her. I kept the text messages my WH and OW sent to me and now that I read them I felt like all of that was just a waste of my time.

The best thing in my opinion, which I have also done, is to contact her parents and tell them. That's what I did. Boy was I scared, but I did it and now they know, I believe almost everyone knows! Don't let them know you are going to do it or about to do it, JUST DO IT.

Of course he's going to say things like you're crazy and all that...he is trying to justify the fact that what he is doing is right.

IT IS NOT HOPELESS.

Be still, my friend. There's a reason for everything...the answers will come in time. Believe you will reconcile.

BUT...

right now I know it is hard to take the focus off of him, but you've gotta take care of yourself and your babies. I have been there...pregnant and taking care of my toddler. Have you gotten checked out for any STDs you may have? It's for the benefit of you and your child.

Keep your head up. Don't reason with your WH and the OW.

He called me again when he was out of her hearing (going to pick up something to eat for them) and was so nice saying that he didn't want to cold and heartless, but he doesn't feel that way for me anymore and never could again unless we were away from each other a looong loong time. See, we've had other issues. This isn't the first time he cheated and I cheated in hurt and retaliation (horrible I know!). I brought that up tonight too (my cheating). Because I had an emotional affair with a man on the internet and really thought I was in love with him and not in love with my husband. And my husband got angry when I brought this up! He said, "well that was physical and this isn't". Whatever. (Blah after I read that I feel like a total slut). Anyway, I told him that I woke up one day and was like WTH am I doing? I told him that I hope he wakes up before it's too late and he loses the best things in his life.

Your right I've got to stop talking to him, but I just want to hear his voice...it's awful. I'm a glutton for punishment.

Well I only found one number for a family with the same last name as hers in the town. I called, but it wasn't them. I need to find out if she lives with her mom and stepdad and maybe they have a different number.

One of the things you might consider if you continue to hit dead ends is to go ahead and pay for a background check. I used intellius.com and got plenty of info on OW - from her neighbors to her kids to her family members with addresses and phone numbers. The cost wasn't exorbitant - I think it was around $40. It was well worth it to me to get access to that info.

I second the other opinions that contacting the OW is a futile effort in most cases. The OW (especially a young one) doesn't give a flip about you or your kids. She's only concerned with getting your WH away from you permanently and having what she wants. These people are selfish and you can't reason with them at all.

I contacted OW via email and really wish I hadn't. She never responded and I don't even know if she read the message or not. I didn't expect her to respond, but something inside me wanted her to and I was disappointed when she didn't. It kept me focused on something that didn't matter instead of helping me move on to repairing the damage to my M.

Ok, so you have the last name and the city they live in. Find out what county the city is in. Then do a google search for that county's property appraiser site. Then look up their name and see if they own property.

I did contact her ex boyfriend who just broke up with her and asked him to help me. I told him what she was doing. God, I really feel like a psycho. I just can't believe that he can say these things to me. It really does feel hopeless and he really does mean them. Obviously we can't have contact any time soon.

He wants nothing to do with me romantically and does NOT want to repair our marriage. He says that it has nothing to do with her. Is this the WS fog?

Is the XBF willing to help you out?

Remember that it seems like your WH means what he says but he doesn't really know what he means right now. He will say anything to keep the A going. He has rewritten your history and thinks he has had a lousy life. This will change when the A is over and when he gets through withdrawal. The things he says are hurtful, but just remember this really isn't your H. Don't take anything he says seriously. He is a mess right now so nothing he says really means anything. The things he's saying are typical wayward spouse words. They mean nothing.

The thing is: what if he really does mean all these things and it's not because of the affair? That's what I keep thinking.

Well, if he does really mean it then he will be the first WS I've heard of who did.

One of the things you can do is to do the best Plan A you can do. Work on becoming a better person and the wife you need to be. Do you know his top ENs? If so, meet every one of them that he will allow. Continue to work on yourself. If it turns out that the A ends (they almost always do) then you'll be ready for him to return. If the A doesn't end, then you'll know you did everything you could do to save your M. You'll also be a better person who will be able to move on to the next phase of your life. Many will tell you that there are no guarantees that this will save your M, but the chances are sure that if you do nothing your M will fail.

I probably didn't do a very good job of responding to your concerns. Hopefully one of the more experienced folks will come along and give you more direction.

I have no idea, but I hope that he will.

I guess I just wonder if he would be gone anyway if she hadn't stepped into the picture. But then I think, well he would have left a long time ago if he was so unhappy. Maybe?? I don't know.

Think of it this way - if there hadn't been an A and your H was unhappy, wouldn't you try to make changes to improve your M? Of course you would. So, since you do know that there's an A, develop your plan and go for it. If your WH is going to end the M no matter what, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain by working on yourself.

Seriously, though, you really do need to not pay attention to the hurtful things he says. It is so hard to let them go, but it is the best thing to do. I listened to all the crap my WH said and it was definitely all crap. It hurt and it impaired my progress. Don't let that happen to you.

I guess I just need to figure out my Plan A gameplan. I know that for the moment, until I get out of my own temporarily insane phase, he and I don't need to speak. I've made a plan to go back to school (which starts in three weeks) and I need to get back to enjoying my pregnancy since this is probably my last one. I'm only enforcing the thought that I'm crazy when I act out of emotion.

With the Plan A: there aren't that many EN's that he will let me meet, at least at the moment. I'll do what I can, though.

What really got me when we talked though was when he said that when he came back for those few days that he wanted to kill himself. That being with me made him suicidal. That really, really hurt.

I just can't get the thought of the two of them out of my head. I know that it's irrational and I need to let it go, but it seems almost impossible. I don't know if it's my added hormones or what....

How did some of you other BS's get through this issue? How did you get through the first few weeks and learn to live again? This seems to be all I can think about and concentrate on.

Thinking about them together is normal. I still think about it. The way I got through it was to redirect my thoughts to something more productive - like my plan or things I needed to get done regarding getting into recovery. The other thing I did was to only allow myself a certain amount of time to think about A related things. I had to get certain things done, but it didn't have to take up all my time.

I tried to stay busy doing other things. This was very difficult, especially at first. I still have to keep myself occupied with unrelated thoughts and tasks. I was working when I found out and for the first 2 weeks after I confronted him. Then I lost my job and the job search took alot of my priority from there.

For me, it was a mind over matter thing. I had to force myself to get past it. This doesn't work for everybody.

I'm trying to force myself, but the thoughts come at the most unfortunate times.

I feel that reading all I can on here is doing some good. Also, journaling as been helping. I just have all these feelings that I want to say to my WH, but what's the point? It will only cause an argument and enforce the idea that what he is doing is right.

I agree its not a good idea to have any contact with the OW. My situation is similiar, the OW is around the same age. She is very immature. There were many times in the very beginning of the affair when I thought she would have guilt or compassion for my kids--wrong. Young OW are in their own world and will say and do things to hurt not only you but your kids through their selfishness. Its not fair but I have learned the hard way you can't control other people and in cases like ours, its best to stay away from these crazy people.

Your right. She is just going to milk it and act like "oh your crazy wife keeps harrassing me" and he will comfort her, which makes me sick.
I just have to go on. Hopefully, I will be able to contact her parents or her XBF will help me.

I just keep thinking about him telling me that being with me made him want to kill himself. Of course, this was during the time that he had supposedly come home to work things out, but he could have been going through withdrawals.
I know that she is leaving at the end of this week, sooner hopefully. I hope that her XBF is pissed, especially since they just broke up. I think they were planning on working at the same place and moving in together, before the broke up anyway. God, I've got to get this crap off of my mind!

That was a mean, cruel thing to say and I am sorry it hurt you so bad. Hopefully after the fog has lifted he will feel like a complete a$$ and let you know he really didn't mean it. From what I have read here WS can say some hurtful things when they are in the fog.

Keep taking care of yourself as best as you can. Keep working to find the phone number of the OW's parents, that is very important in exposure.

This is classic wayward fog babble, at least it was in my case. My FWH said he didn't care if he died. This was during the time he came back home and was saying he wanted to work on our marriage. He definitely was going through withdrawal and I can see all that now. It is hard to see it when you are in the middle of it.

I also obsessed with how bad our marriage was before the A and my H said OW had nothing to do with him leaving and that he left because he was miserable.

You've asked what you can do to get through this and stop obsessing. I don't have an answer to that, but I want you to know that being totally obsessed with it is normal. Just try to focus on what does make you feel good, for me that was my daughter. I knew that whatever happened I always had her and I had to be a good mom in case I ended up in a nasty divorce and custody battle. Focusing on taking care of myself and being a good mom was what got me through each day.

On a positive note, so much of what you write sounds like me and my H a little over a year ago. We have been together for the past year and our marriage is better than it was pre A.

Hang in there!

I just wanted to add that my FWH said some horrible things to me which he didn't even remember saying after the fog lifted. Now if only I could forget them.

My H has said he was suicidal at different times during his A, too. Recently it was so bad that I called a hotline to see what I could do to help him. I think they think about suicide because they're filled with guilt and at this point they don't know what to do. It's also possible they're just being dramatic.

The only thing I can tell you about this is that if he is still saying he wants to die, you should try to get him to seek help through counseling. I know this hurts you, but if he truly is showing current signs of being suicidal you shouldn't ignore it. Just remember that this isn't about you - it's about him and how he feels about what he's done. He may say that you're the cause, but that's just babble. Don't buy into it.

If he truly does need help and won't get it, there's not alot you can do about it. You can only control you.

One thing I might suggest is to set boundaries for what you'll tolerate from him and what you won't. If he says things that are hurtful, then walk away and don't hear anything else he has to say. If your discussions turn non-productive, let him know you'll only discuss a recovery plan and walk away if he doesn't get back on track. There's nothing wrong with telling him respectfully that you don't care to hear his ugly talk about how bad you are. This is a touchy one, though, because you must be sure he understands that you're willing to discuss a recovery plan respectfully and that you're willing to work on areas that need to be improved.

Well I keep finding out more and more about this stuff. Apparently my WH called in to work yesterday stating Family Issues so he could spend time with the OW. He was also playing around at work and is getting into trouble for that. He broke a garbage disposal, so who knows if he will even have a job.

We had a talk (the WH and myself) and he said that he wasn't going to have any contact with the OW (I finally got in touch with her parents) and he didn't want her to be ostracized by her family for a decision that he made that had nothing to do with her. He still states that he does not want to be with me and that he's done. I told him about these forums and how he seems to be going by the book and he says that all of this has nothing to do with him. He left because of me, not because of her. I don't know what to think. He still does not want to reconcile.

Haha on a light note though, I had on a low cut shirt and he kept staring at my cleavage! :-)

I kept hearing that one, too. "It's about us and she has nothing to do with it." That's BS. Your M may not have been perfect, but you could have a much easier time working on your issues if he weren't putting his energy into someone else. His A makes it impossible for you to recover your M. Until NC is established, there will be no recovery.

Don't let him bully you into not doing the things you need to do to stop his A. He will say he's not seeing her, but until you have proof, he's seeing her. His decision to have an A was his and her decision to participate was hers. So, she did have a say and she should be exposed for it. Do not let your WH call the shots here - you have the right and responsibility to stand up for your M.

They all say the same things. Every BS has heard these very same lines.

Also remember that he will lie to you about everything.

So, I should just do a really great Plan A for now? I wanted to argue with him when he was talking about our marriage and divorcing, but I held my tongue and told him that I understood and that it was his decision if that is what he wanted. Was that good?

God, I'm no good at holding stuff in LOL. I wanted to defend my marriage to no end, but I know that right now it doesn't make a difference.

My H insisted that he left because of me and not because of her. That is classic wayward talk.

As far as telling him about these forums, I would be careful about that. Don't try to educate him at this point.

Right now you need to focus on showing your WH how fantastic you are. Always look good when you see him. Always be the first to say good-bye on the phone. Keep busy and don't give him the details. Put the bait out there and get him to start chasing you. Don't talk about the OW. Talk about what you know you did wrong in the marriage and how you are sorry and show him how you are changing. When he says he never loved you, remind him of times when he was crazy in love with you.

Act like you did in the beginning or your relationship. Be his girlfriend!

This is what I would do. Go into survival mode. This is so hard - but put your feelings aside for at least part of your day so you can focus on what you need to be doing to stand up for your M.

Do you work outside your home? Is your WH already living somewhere else? What agreement do you have in place to pay your living expenses?

Complete your exposure. Contact everyone who can have any influence over your WH - your family, his family, pastor. How does he know this woman? If it's through his job, then contact the HR department at his company. What did OWs parents say? Did they offer help or blow you off? You can also still try to contact her XBF because he may still have some influence over her.

Do you have a way to start stashing some cash in a safe place? This may seem crazy, but you may need money later and if it's in a bank account you'll have to disclose it. If you have some cash stashed in a safe place outside your home, this can be a safety net for you. Can you get cash back when you buy groceries that will be untraceable? I have cash stashed in a safe deposit box. You could keep it at the home of someone you trust if you don't want to get a safe deposit box.

Have you started gathering your proof? If not, start getting every piece of data that proves his A and stash this with your cash. This would be a log book including his comings and goings, phone records, bank statements, notes about your conversations. Anything that is related to his A should be documented and kept in a safe place.

What about your finances? Do you have a joint account? Start keeping up with all your money and where it goes.

This may sound extreme and like you're really not wishing to save your M, but while you're trying to stop his A and get him back on board, you've got to protect your finances and yourself. Getting these things in place will also help you feel in control and give you something to do to occupy your time.

----Now all this being said about protecting yourself, is in addition to your fabulous Plan A. The protecting yourself is done covertly without his knowledge. It's only your safety net. Your goal is to save your M, but if you put together a safety net in case you do end up in D you won't find yourself in as big a mess as you could if you didn't take these actions.

Great plan! Blah, of course when he stopped by unexpectedly today I looked like crap. But I did apologize for the things that I've done wrong and I said that I didn't want that kind of relationship for us anymore, I wanted an even better one. He was, of course, skeptical and said it would never happen. I was laughing about the cleavage eyeballing though...maybe he isn't as immune as he thought or maybe he was trying to distract me.

God, I don't even remember how to be a girlfriend anymore LOL

He is living at his parents for now. I suppose the OW's parents told her that they weren't going for the married man thing. I spoke with her father and he apologized and said that they would speak with her. Not long after that he came over here saying all of that stuff, so who knows what they said.

Right now I'm not working, but I'm looking for work. I receive child support for my oldest two which would allow me to pay the rent and utilities and that is about it. We don't have a joint account, I just have one in my name. The utilities are in his name as is the cable, phone, and internet. At the moment, I don't have the money to change them.

The XBF was great! He really helped out and was very understanding. He says she is a great liar and that my H isn't the first guy she's worked with that she's had a fling with. Sometimes my WH is so stupid....I know that isn't nice, but goodness, couldn't he have found someone better?

Do you have access to his account? Can you make copies of his statements in case you need them? What about his credit card statements?

I've heard many stories about how the WS steps down to choose their AP. My WH chose a woman who has been married 4 times, never married the father of the child she has, has been sued 4-5 times in the last 3 years for not paying her bills, has been fired from at least 3 jobs, had her trailer foreclosed on (though she was able to work that out and keep it some way), is basically the town wh*** in the little podunk S Georgia town she lives in. People in that area knew he was involved with her and warned him to get away from her, but he didn't. He recently told me she had to sell her car before the bank took it back, but I'm not sure that's true. I think he thought I'd feel sorry for her if that happened to her. I don't feel sorry for her at all.

So, again, your WH is fitting a mold by choosing a loser to have an A with.

Haha I think it's finally starting to sink into my head (I knew the whole time, but I'm rather stubborn and hardheaded) that our situation isn't new. It's been done over and over and over again. Every time he has cheated has been with someone less attractive, less articulate, and kind of stupid. I don't get it. He did say that he has NOT been a good husband to me and that one of the reasons why is because he was so unhappy. Well, he could have made everyone a lot happier if he had bucked up and got with the program! Everyone gets unhappy in their marriage, but they don't leave when the going gets tough! He has left twice before, both times for less than a week (to think he said) but I think that both times there was another woman.

I just don't know if I have it in me to save the marriage on my own this time. The other times he came home on his own, but this time...I really have to work at it. I don't know if I have the heart. Knowing that he is sleeping alone at night at his parents house (if he does) will make me feel better, but I just don't know.

heh heh, gotta love those pregnancy boobs. Maybe buying some new shirts could be part of your plan A....

Great job on exposing to OW's parents. I am sure they are so proud

Now your WH is going to be po'ed big time for a little while. Hold on tight, hopefully when the fog clears he will start to come around.

He has nothing. Everything we have is because I worked my [censored] off to get it. Excuse the language. For three years he sat here and didn't work. I mean he had it made! He played video games all the time and could do whatever he wanted to basically. But, I guess I wasn't exciting or new enough (not to mention willing to put up with his BS) to keep him interested.

Well, then I'd be sure to document all the not working on his part and all you've done to provide for your family. You also might consider seeing a lawyer to see what you need to do to not leave yourself in a bind if you do end up in D. Again, this isn't to say that D is the next step but you need to make sure you're prepared for as much as you can be. This is all very painful, but it helped me alot to know that I was prepared to handle anything that came next.

What do his parents say about his As and the fact that he has left you? Do you have support from your own family?

His parents are very disappointed in him and his mother does not condone or agree with anything that he is doing. His dad, well I don't know. He says that he feels that my H will want to come back and that this thing with the OW is an "oopsie" he called it. But, my H is his only child, so I know he will do for him what he can. However, if he continues on this path of not going to work and not getting back in school, etc, etc, they WILL NOT put up with it and he will be out on his own. They have been very supportive of me and the girls, matter of fact we are going to a Mother's Day dinner with them on Sunday.

My family has been wonderful! I've talked to my mom for hours and my dad has told me that if I need anything to just ask, he will give it to me. My parents are divorced and it really had an effect on me. I've never really known my dad and we aren't close, though I've always wished we could be. I don't want my children to feel the same. I bought the book Second Chances and I've asked my H to read it, because he thinks the kids will be okay if we divorce, no big deal.

I get the feeling that my in-laws might be upset with me, I don't know. I've called them today and let them know EVERYTHING that is going on and I guess they had it out with my H. I spoke with his mom for a moment and she said they were mentally exhausted and didn't sound happy with me. I hate getting them into the middle of this, but they need to know these things also. I think I might distance myself from them until Sunday.

I hope that he does cease contact with her, but I don't know. I just want my husband back and I don't know if I will ever get that. He says that he hasn't been happy since before he even met the OW and that he has been repressing his feelings for a very long time. That he hasn't been in love with me for a long time. He says that when he came home for those nights he was only saying the beautiful things he said because he was trying to convince himself. I told him that I felt cherished that night, that I felt completely loved for the first time in a long time and he said none of it was true. He said that he doesn't want to lose contact with me because that would hurt him but he can't be with me romantically. *sigh* WS's are CRAZY!

Well my WH was at his parent's house when the kids got dropped off from school, which is rare. I wonder how long this is going to last?

Ok well, I attempted Plan A today. I dropped our youngest off with him while I took the other two to gymnastics class. I made sure that I looked nice and smelled really, really good
I told him thank you for keeping her, blah, blah, blah. I also called to ask him if he would put new windshield wipers on my vehicle (mine had a piece of the rubber strip coming off) and he agreed to do this. He had no problems with it and I thanked him profusely. He got kind of close to me while handing some stuff, but he moved quickly away before I could hug him (which I was going to attempt to do after thanking him for putting on the wipers). So, no physical contact, but he did look at me a lot. I know that I shouldn't expect anything and I don't.

He's all sad and depressed acting (maybe going through withdrawals, I dunno?). I just have to keep on keeping on. I think it will be easier for me to heal knowing that he is sleeping alone also. He may still be in contact with her, but at least he isn't sleeping at her house.

I know you must be hurt, trust me, I have been there. My`best friend's husband left her while she was pregnant too. He did not provide any support for her or their 3 year old either. He took the car from her & gave it to his girlfriend...He was a TOTAL jerk!

And your husband sounds like an even bigger jerk & loser. You sound better off without him. He has disrespected you in the worse way and seems content to pour salt into your wounds. He has cheated on you how many times before? Cut your loses and RUN...He has no respect for you. He has cheated and does not appear to be remorseful; which means that he has not learned and if you get back with him, he will do it again. I know that you probably don't want to hear this but you need to start thinking about yourself & your own peace of mind. Do you want to always worry about who your husband may be sleeping with? That is not healthy and it will begin to wear on you mentally, if it hasn't already.

My best friend went thru her emotional turmoil. She wanted him back after he cheated on her at least 4 times in their marriage. He did not come back...and now when she looks back, she realizes that it was the best decision that he could have made.

Since her ex left her, he has continued to make babies with other women and is even broker than the day he left her. But she has prospered. She worked on herself emotionally. She focused on herself & her children. She focused on her career. She now has a good job with the Federal Government & is pursuing her Bachelors Degree. She is also remarried to a man that LOVES her, RESPECTS her, and is FAITHFUL to her. She did not block her blessing and God sent her a REAL man after she was divorced from the LITTLE BOY. My best friend's ex has at least 6 children with at least 4 different women & has been divorced twice.

I know that my comment will bring some negative remarks but here it goes...Let the OW have him. She does not appear to be getting too much. He seems to be disrespectful and selfish. And, he will eventually tire of her or she of him. They will cheat on one another because neither of them appear to have any morals.

I am all for saving marriage but it takes two to make it work. Your H does not CARE about you or your marriage.

Stop placing your energy in him & the STUPID childish OW. Instead direct your energy in improving yours and your children's lives without him. In the end, you will be glad that you did.

"Blah, of course when he stopped by unexpectedly today I looked like crap."

You MUST get on over to the Goddess thread and read it from the very start!

I wonder if your husband is depressed - the not working for 3 years and sitting playing video games sounds like it could be depression.

Oh yeah he definitely was, is, whatever. He will NOT take any medication for it, however, and that is a bad thing.

Heading over to check out the goddess thread :-)

Men are so strange. I can't figure out why they REFUSE to take medication that will help them.

My ex was depressed for months before the affair. I talked to him about it, and told him I was afraid he might make bad choices. He said he wouldn't even consider seeing a doctor.

Instead he messed up our whole lives.

Wow, I just talked to one of my WH's really good friends that he went to high school with and has known for years. He had NO IDEA what was going on. He was like....WTF? It's amazing. His lifelong friends have no idea what the heck he is doing.

I know exactly what you mean. My WH is suppose to take ADD medication and antidepressants, but no, he is too "manly" or whatever to take them. It's crazy.

Well he stayed at his parents all night. They only live a couple blocks away and crazy me when out to see if he was there. That is a plus. Poor baby is sad now that he's the one who is sleeping alone too.

Last night our DD5 called him before she went to bed and said, "Dad, I miss you and I love you and I want to sleep in bed with you and Momma". No, I did NOT put her up to that and I was just as surprised as he was. He asked to speak with me and said, "what was the purpose of that?" as if I made her do it. His voice did sound rather funny, though. Poor DD5 misses her daddy so much, they hung out together daily from her birth and did a lot of stuff together.

You are not crazy, you are smart. You are doing everything you can to protect your marriage and finding out where he was staying is a part of that.

Thanks, suamico. I feel like a complete psycho for "checking up" on him, he's a grown man. And, I know how he would turn it around if he found out and tell me how crazy I am. I really think that OW was throwing his some bulls#$t because some of the stuff that has come out of his mouth is total chick-speak. For example: We were too young and not emotionally ready to take care of each other's hearts.
What guy says that? I know that my husband does not use the phrase "take care of each other's hearts". Hell, I wouldn't even say that. *sigh* I just want her outta here ASAP. Maybe he will start thinking of his family and me instead.

I wouldn't say that either. An immature high school girl might, or a VERY immature young woman.

Well, this could be a good thing, I'm not sure. I don't want to misinterpret anything that is happening. I'm too overly analytical on things as it is. Anyway, he just called and his first question was, "What's up?" Surprise, surprise, you could have knocked me over with a feather! He hasn't called to say that since he left.

I told him what was going on and asked him the same and he let me know that he was out looking for another job, closer to home. When I told him that I had an application there at the same place, he was like, "Ohhh. I see". Which means he is probably going to be turning around and not put one in.

Last night I asked him to talk to our DD12 as she was being disrespectful, rude, you name it. He said last night that what he said would probably make no difference, because of the way that things went down with him and her. She knows that there is another woman and that he was staying with her. Today, however, he asked if she acted any better after he spoke with her. I assured him that she did (which she did) and he seemed pleasantly surprised. I thanked him again for speaking with her and he kind of blew it off (my way of Plan A'ing....I want him to know that I appreciate stuff like that still), but still I feel inside that he was surprised and maybe a little pleased that I thanked him.

He talked about work some and then we got off the phone. All in all, I feel that it was an okay conversation. Not one that we would have had while together, but not bad. I stayed nice and cheery and he didn't have anything horrid to say. However, I'm not getting my hopes up. He's probably just being nice so that when we file for D the kids won't be so screwed up. Who knows?

Sounds like progress.

OT, but have you ever seen the newsletter called Daughters? You can sign up for it at www.daughters.com; they also have an online forum, sections for dads and their daugthers, stuff like that. I have found it invaluable for raising an adolescent girl. I even sit and read it with my D17 sometimes, as it gives us an opportunity to discuss the problems and solutions presented in it that may or may not be occurring in her own life, but would never bring up with me on her own. Great stuff. For both you AND your H to read.

That sounds like a great start. As for the job application this may be an opening for dialog. Maybe you could call him and say something like “I hope you still applied to XYZ company. We don’t know what will happen so we both should give it a try. Then if one of us gets the job the other can just pull their application."

Asking him to help with your daughter is a great idea. If you pump him up it will make him feel better about himself AND make you look more attractive to him. Keep it up, you are doing great.

Thanks, suamico! More news!

The WH called me for no reason that I could discern. He talked about work (he got written up for being silly with the OW, who no longer works there as of the 5th) and how he wanted to get another job because he didn't like this one. He had found another one, but it paid less and he didn't want that. I told him that he would end up paying less for gas, which would work out. He's not happy with that job at the moment because the OW isn't there and because his boss is one of my best friend's mom. LOL, so I get lots o' information about him. He's not happy with the "circle of information" he says. But, then he doubles back and says that he guesses its like that everywhere. Hmmm....I'm still wondering why he called me. Maybe since he has decided on NC with the OW (which I'm still holding my breath about) he doesn't have anyone else to talk about this stuff with.

My mom asked, "doesn't it make you angry that he only calls you when he can't talk to her?" No, it really doesn't. At least he is calling me to tell me these things or to get my opinion, whatever. At least it feels right. I made sure to agree with him and tell him I understood and I do. It seems like a good thing.

Oh and I sent him a text before he would have gotten to work telling him what I would do to him if he was here. Sex would DEFINITELY be the #1 on his EN's. Do you guys think that was inappropriate?

I'll check out that website catperson, thanks!!!

Another update....wow. Three good conversations with my WH today so far! We spoke on the phone about DD5 and DD10. DD10 had a little call her a backstabbing B^%&h today and I wanted his advice on how to handle this (I didn't really need it, but you know ). I also told him about DD10 saying that the way she was getting through this was not thinking about it. She said that whenever she thought about her dad not being at the house, she would change her mind. He wasn't very happy to hear that. I got a very grumpy "Hmmph" from him. Repression is never a good thing.

BUT, he was at work (and not going to the OW's house though she lives right down the road) on his lunch break and that made me feel better. He received a phone call at work while we were talking and I waited while he took it. He told me as soon as he got back on the phone who had called, though I didn't ask him. It was the insurance guy and (sorry to anyone who works in the insurance dept) we laughed about how he had a speech impediment and how most insurance salesmen are kind of dorky. LOL, not nice I know, but it was good to laugh with him.

I really don't see any changes on the coming home and reconciling part, but at least things are kind of nice right now. I told him that we were going to a Mother's Day dinner with his parents and he said that he knew. Should I invite him to go along? I'm sure the girls would really, really enjoy us doing something together.

Also, give me some feedback on that text. I'm worried that it might have been overkill!!!

Ayane,

You are doing fine. Stay on your Plan A, and do everything you can to avoid LB and DJ.

Do not give him any ammunition to take back to the OW and say, "my wife is being mean or bit&*y" or anything like that. Be sure that if you need to vent, you vent here.

Don't tell him the name of this website.

Do try to get access to and read his emails and text messages on his phone if you can do it without his finding out. You will be able to know if he is really not contacting the OW or if he is gaslighting you - right now, though, it sounds like he is being pretty nice and that usually indicates he isn't talking to her. Watch closely though, because they often just go further underground and can be very secretive.

Read up on the "Notable Posts" thread here - you need to look for the post that talks about the Carrot and the Stick of Plan A. It will help you do a good job of responding to him when your kids say things to him about his behavior and he finds himself stuck having to pay the consequences of his affair.

Do not believe for one single minute that this is not a physical affair, until the entire and full story is out. This is still very early in the discovery phase, and he is still wayward. Because he is not yet in the truth-telling phase, and this can take awhile, you may very well be in for the sad truth that he has had sex with her but he isn't ready to talk about it.

Don't let the fact that he says things like "I haven't been happy for a long time" get to you. He has the wayward spouse workbook at home, and he practices the script every night in preparation for talking to you. Somewhere they are selling these things online and the person who publishes it is making a fortune! When he says something that sounds stupid, it IS STUPID. Remember that.

Just look at him and smile sweetly and tell him, "I guess I didn't understand that back when we were making mad passionate love that time at ________. Remember that? It was absolutely fantastic. You are such a great lover." Then heave a huge sigh of ecstasy, look off into the distance, and get a dreamy look in your eyes! (You fill in the blank - Pick the most exotic place the two of you ever made love.) It just takes the air right out of that "we never had a great relationship...we never were in love...we never had great sex...we never....whatever....." crappola.


You sound like you are making cracks in his armor. Keep your spirits up and your eyes on what you want - a stronger marriage. When he comes around, and he will, be sure that you stick with your plan

that this time, the marriage only goes forward with the affair-proofing in place.

That means BOTH of you are on board with the Marriage Builders plan.

You and he will both need to work. You are ahead of him on the track, and that's good.

SB

Oh this is so true. Never again will I let him come home without setting up boundries and terms. I won't try to pretend that everything is okay and nothing ever happened. Of course, I don't know if he ever will come home again, but I do have a sliver of hope. It's that sliver that keeps me going.

I do have to admit, though, that I am scared of what will happen if he comes home. Am I strong enough to keep to the terms? Things would be tense and weird at first. I want him back home badly, but would it work again? These are the thoughts that are going through my mind. I wonder what is going through his?

I have sensed that BS's have a tendency to freak out when it comes to getting their WS back. As in, they become...afraid...that their WS will decide they are not good enough. PLEASE do not do that to yourself. HE is the one who strayed, the one who owes YOU an apology. PLEASE don't go down that road of thinking you have to make up for something. You may have contributed to his unhappiness, but you DIDN'T have the affair. Remember that and stay strong and proud of yourself for what you have gone through.

I have to admit that I am kind of afraid that even when he is out of the fog (if he is) that he STILL won't want me. That my love is just not enough. It sucks and I know it's stupid and irrational, but I can't stop the thoughts and feelings.

Thank you catperson for the pep talk. I know that you are right and this is one of the things that I need to work on right now. Insecurity!!

I just wish I could stop thinking about kissing my WH, touching him, cuddling at night....you know, the little things that we take for granted daily that we might never be able to do again. I miss watching Family Guy in bed at night and even falling asleep to his video games. Just the small things.....

What you need to work on is having a good life for you and your children, whether he comes back or not. I'm sure he will, but if you have a nice life, you won't feel so much like just taking him back with no conditions.

You are doing a good Plan A. Please don't get your hopes up just yet though.

I know and I don't want to, but if I don't have that tiny bit of hope, then I think, what's the point? You know?

On a light/funny note: the OW's xBF, who helped with all of this, has asked me if I would like to "get even with them". LOL, this involves, use of a digital camera and intimate time with him. I was flattered, but I had to decline. I told him that I wasn't the sort of woman who could turn her feelings on and off (though it would be easier for me!) and I love the stupid jerk, even though he makes bad decisions. LOL, I hope I didn't hurt xBF's feelings too bad

I slept well last night...probably the best sleep that I've had since this whole mess began. Also, this sitch wasn't the first thing I thought of when I did wake up. LOL, it was a very, very close second, but it wasn't the first (thank you baby laying on my bladder!).
Watching Grey's Anatomy last night was a killer for me though. It was all about kisses and stupid me text messaged my WH telling him how much I wanted to kiss him among other things. Gosh, I'm like a drunk dialer when I'm upset! I need to place my phone in a glass box with "Open for Emergencies Only!" on the outside of it. Of course I didn't hear anything from him. I never do when I send these types of messages. Who knows if he even reads them.
He was at his parents all night again last night, which makes me happy. Of course, I have no idea what he is doing with his phone so he's probably in contact with the OW, but I know that I can't worry about that. She is definitely leaving today (I got this from her pops) so that is another plus. Maybe he will snap out of this fog in the near future. I would love to give my only son his father for his day of birth.

Well, I just spoke to my WH again. The conversation started off great, we were talking about him hanging out with some of his friends and laughing about stuff. I was like, yeah! But, it took a nosedive not long after. He also stated that his mother is harping on him and thinking of kicking him out because he is not going to school or doing anything productive. We talked about school and all that, which I thought was a good thing, but....
Apparently, the OW called him to let him know that her mom is disowning her and doesn't want her to live with them because of what she has done. My WH said, "she is not the reason that I left you, why did you tell her family that?" I never told her family that! And, if she wasn't the reason he left, why didn't he leave before her if he was as unhappy as he said he had been for awhile. It just makes me angry that he is upset for her because of this but could care less about comforting me.
Also, he made a comment about the texts that I have sent him. He said that he can't do that anymore, even though he would love to (I think this was just to make me feel better). That hurt because he doesn't even want to touch me anymore.

I should just give up and say forget it. I can't make him love me and I don't think he ever will again. I might as well get it through my head that we are DONE. That is all that I can do. It hurts and it hurts bad, which I'm sure you guys know. I don't want to give up on my marriage, but what can I do?

Ayanne,
Your conversation with your WH took a nose dive because he had contact from OW. Do not let this get you down, do not let it stop you from being the best you can be.

My FWH still says he did not leave me because of the OW but that he left because our marriage was so bad. Well our marriage did suck, so there was some truth in that, but the other part of the truth is that if he didn't have a chick encouraging him he probably wouldn't have left. Do not even argue this with your WH, try to let it go in one ear and out other. Try not to talk about her at all. Do not bring her up. Try to think of her is insignificant. Focus on being your best and on how you can improve your marriage. This is how I got through it when I was where you are.

Your WH will defend her at this point, that is normal. My FWH even told me that he felt like he was cheating on OW when I touched him.

Do I have this part right OW was moving home to her parents but now they don't want her there? If this is true then her parents are people with morals and if I was you I would try calling her parents again and tell them that their daughter moving home would help give you and your WH a chance at saving your marriage.

Do not give up! You are doing great! I was where you are a little over a year ago and I remember how it feels. But you need to be strong for your kids and for you and for your WH, he is weak right now.

Just remember it's not really your husband talking right now. It's an alien in his body, as someone here has said. Some day, he will emerge and be himself again, but for now, nothing he says is the truth, and he will likely be appalled years from now to realize what he's saying today. It's not about you.

Well she told him the sob story that her parents don't want her there. BUT, I got the real story from her xBF. Her parents have told her that they are letting her move back in but if she has anything to do with my WH then they will kick her out and disown her. They are moving her stuff today, so that makes me feel better. I spoke with one of my friends and we have agreed that this girl was the catalyst. Yeah we had problems in our marriage, but he was talking about adopting my two oldest girls just a couple of weeks before he left. He reasoning for this was, "I didn't think that s*@t would go down". So, basically, he would have dealt with things and we would have fixed our marriage if he didn't have some girl behind him telling him to leave a.k.a. backup plan.

WS's are crazy!!

Another not so great conversation with the WH. They were great yesterday and today they suck! Anyway, he was upset because I told him about 30-45 minutes after this place called him for a job interview. The reason I called so long after is because I was there interviewing for the position. Of course, I didn't tell him that. I did tell him that it would be awkward for us to work together and he said that he wasn't going to not work there just because I did. He said (and I quote), "you'll only be able to work there until your baby is born, then you'll be doing the taking care of baby stuff, so you won't be there that long". WTF? It's as if he had nothing to do with making this child, I just became pregnant because I wanted to. That crap hurts! I mean, he seems to love the girls so much (even the two that aren't his) but he feels nothing for the one that I'm carrying right now! His firstborn son. *sigh*

Good get OW out of there! She is young and will hopefully find a new guy near her when she moves.

Your conversations today suck because he had contact with OW. It has nothing to do with you waiting 30 minutes to tell him about the interview. This is how it will be until there is NC.

I know the crap he says hurts, trust me I know, I still feel the pain from the things my FWH said to me. He went as far as to say that he never loved me like he loved OW, then a few months into our recovery I freaked out and yelled at him and asked him if he still loved her more than me. Guess what he looked completely surprised because he did not even remember saying that and he told me then that he never loved her. A few months after that I got upset again and asked him if he still thought about her, he said he never wanted to think about that stupid b**** again. So he went from loving her, to never having loved her, to thinking she was a stupid b**** in only a few months time. I am telling you this because I want you to see how messed up waywards think.

Another thing my WH said when he was wanting to come home but was still with OW was that his head felt like it was in a blender. So rest assured you are not the only one with crazy thoughts filling your head, waywards feel crazy too.

Try to hang in there, it is a rollercoaster. When there is NC he will begin to sound normal, but all it takes is one text or call from the OW and he will be an instant a**.

I can only hope and pray! With as into guys as she seems, she should find one soon. Then, hopefully, she will break off contact with my WH. Or, she seems the type who would continue to play with him to keep him around. Who knows?
He talked to DD10 (she has her first dance tonight and wanted to tell him) and asked her to help him make something for his mom for Mother's Day. I said (and it popped out of my mouth before I could stop it), "he NEEDS to be making or buying something for the mother of his children too!" Ooops, I didn't mean to say that in front of DD10.

I hope that he feels crazy. How can he feel okay about what he has done? That is something that I don't understand and probably never will. How he thinks that leaving the mother of his children, while she is pregnant, is an okay thing to do and he is still a great guy. Blah.

Ayane,

Don't be afraid of what will happen when he comes back.

Why?

Because BEFORE he comes back, both of you will have come to the point where you both have agreed on the terms of how, why, when, where, and what will happen when he does return.

Because you both will understand POJA.
You both will have filled out the EN Questionnaire.
You both will understand that the boundaries for an affair-safe marriage include not having friends of the opposite sex that make it at risk.
You both will realize that your giver-taker balance needs to be in place.
You both will be on board with the Marriage Builders concepts - and so you will not need to be afraid of what will happen.

Because he will have pulled his head out.

And you will be on the road to recovery. You will have made that happen, because you will be reading the website, the books, and putting the concepts into action.


IF you do this, then you will have a much better shot at a stronger marriage this time around.

And HE will have a chance at changing into a MAN.

SB

I love this. Yes, he needs to learn to be a man, not a little boy.

You guys on this site have been great. When I feel down, you give me encouragement to feel better. I thank all of you for that. I was feeling pretty crappy after that conversation this morning, feeling hopeless, and just telling myself that it really was DONE, that I didn't need to think anything else. But now, well, I feel better. I know that no matter what happens, it will be for the best, and that I will have made myself into a better person. So, THANK YOU!!!

Hugs to all! :-)

Another okay/kinda blah conversation with the WH. This one was about the kids. I thought he was going to keep them tonight and tomorrow night, but he says if only DD5 wants to stay with him tonight, then he will just pick them up in the morning. DD10 and DD12 do NOT want to go with him. I did tell them that I would like for them all to stay with him tomorrow night as I am going out with friends (DD12 didn't like the fact that I was going out, even though there were no guys involved). WH didn't have much to say about me going out tomorrow night either. Anyway, the conversation ended quickly. I suppose it's better than fighting.

Hang in there, hon. I'm sure he will be back.

You are lucky that the OW's parents have some morals. Most parents of OW don't care if she is a homewrecker.

You certainly have a lot of contact with hubby. Mine was out the door and out of my life. I talked to him a total of about an hour in 2 years.

Yeah we have talked more in the past couple of days than we have since he has left. It's nice, but I don't understand some of the things that he brings up. Such as....

I saw one of his (used to be our)friends today and my WH says, "maybe you can hook up with him". Why would he say something like that?

Then he tells me that this chick that he cheated on me with 3 years ago now wants to hang out with him, alone. Why tell me this crap? I don't want to know.

He's also telling me about maybe getting a place with another friend of his, but that then I would get less money if he did that. I know that he can't change his mind overnight, but will he ever?

Oh, who knows why they say crap? You would be much better off spending your time doing something productive like cleaning the toilets.

It's cool that you are having a little boy. They are lots of fun. I raised three boys and was blessed with 5 step-daughters.

I think that he has already cut himself off from me emotionally (well I guess that is kind of obvious) and wants to have a "friend" type relationship, which obviously can't happen right now. Who knows. My mom thinks that he said that since I was intimate with his friend a long, long time ago.

Yeah, I'm excited about having a boy. Girls are cool, but man when they get to be teens (or tweens) they are pains in the butt! Hopefully, a boy won't be that bad :-)

Quote "I saw one of his (used to be our)friends today and my WH says, "maybe you can hook up with him". Why would he say something like that?"

I am wondering if this is part of the fogbabble sh*t they spiel out at us, my WS told me only yesterday to get a b/friend. maybe it eases their conscience to think of us in another relationship

It could be, who knows? But, then I get overly analytical and wonder if he is really in the fog. Maybe he just really, really wanted to get out of this relationship. I guess only time will tell.

But, I do think it would make them feel less guilty to think of us with someone else. Maybe?

Also, all the bills are in his name and he has made no attempt and has not even mentioned taking them out. Should I go ahead and do that myself or just wait until he brings it up?

Am I putting this together right? Your WH said maybe you could hook up with a friend and that friend is one that you were intimate with before.

Did you have an A with this friend?

As for the bills, if he hasn't mentioned it then I wouldn't. The more invested and rooted he is in supporting your home, the more likely I think he is to still be thinking of returning.

No, I didn't have an affair with this guy. But, we did have a....ummm....threesome. Ugh, that was years ago and now I can't believe that I did that. So, that's what made me wonder if he brought up the chick that he cheated on me with earlier in our relationship....because of what happened before.

I also wonder if I am putting too much emphasis on the OW. Perhaps this really was something that he wanted to do (leaving that is) and she was just the catalyst that he needed. Blah, I've really got to find something else to do and think about. I might go play a video game.

[quote=Ayane= So, that's what made me wonder if he brought up the chick that he cheated on me with....because of what happened before.[/quote]

It sounds like he is not okay with your past sexual history even if it involved him.

Is he the jealous type? If so make sure you look really good and are happy when you drop off the kids before you go out tomorrow night. And do not give him too many details about who you are going with or what you are doing. I know it sounds like game playing, but it will make him wonder about you and who you are with. You need to get him to chase you and the first step is for him to start thinking about where you are and who you might be with. I've been blasted before that this advice, so take it or leave it. It's just that your situation reminds me so much of my own, so I am telling you what worked for me. Although I had not heard of MB when I was going through it, so I just did what seemed right for my situation and luckily it lead to my H returning.

I thought at one point that he was, but now he says that he doesn't care what I do. That I could go out and have sex with his best friend and he wouldn't care. That is how much he doesn't love me. So, who knows?

I also don't understand why he is calling me all the time to talk about everyday crap. My friend says to ask him why he is doing that. To find out if he is doing this to get to know me again or to try to start a different kind of relationship with me, or some other reason. What do you guys think? I don't want to ask him because I'm afraid that he will stop calling me and I would rather him do that so we can chat and laugh together than have him find someone else to talk to.

Oh and I plan to look very, very good tomorrow night. I didn't tell him what I was doing, but I did tell him that I had plans. He didn't ask what they were though.

Just got off the phone with my WH. He's been calling a lot. LOL he called and we talked about tv shows, the kids, and a deer on the highway...woohoo. He did get off the phone very, very quickly at the end, when I told him what DD5 said to her teacher. She said, "I miss my daddy". I told him kind of laughingly as we were talking about lighthearted things. He said, "I find nothing amusing about that. I'm cutting off here." I think what she said is sad, but hopefully this is something that will keep HIM up at night...thinking. Because, I will say, if he ever loved anyone but himself, it was those girls. I hope he will feel the same about his son.


OH! Big thing for me here. I was praying when he called. I was telling God that I knew that His way was the best way and the way that things were going to go. But, I wanted to know what I should do. I want my WH to miss me, to want to talk to me. I was asking God to let me know what to do, should I just think of the marriage as over and be open to other possibilities or should I wait it out and fight for my marriage? My phone rang as I praying and it was my WH just calling to talk. I feel like God is telling me something.

OMG my WH called me and said that he really wanted to have sex with me. He said that he wants to see how good WE can be together (not just in sex), but he doesn't want anyone to know about this and get their hopes up. He says he thinks about me and really wants to work things out with me, but his head feels crazy.

This seems like a good thing, yes?

I have recently gone down this road.
He is cake eating. it will raise your hopes, but will ultamitly result in his having sex, and you getting hurt feelings when he doesnt provide love along with the sex.
It is your choice, but it only makes a tentative connection at best.
Also, think STI's. Not romantic, but hey, I just had my test the other day, and that wasnt romantic either.

Well he came over and we attempted, but it didn't happen. It felt forced and un-natural, something that we both noticed. He said that just proves that things have changed with us and he was hoping that this would change his mind. He said that he wants to be home with his family.

I told him to not write our relationship off because of one bad attempt at intimacy. I said that we weren't intimate in any other way anymore, which caused weird feelings when we are trying to do this. He held me and comforted me and I felt closer to him then than while attempting. He said it just proves that we shouldn't be together.

I don't think it does prove that, I think that it shows we need to meet each other's EN's again. Of course, he disagrees. I don't know. Should I write it off as dead now?

I talked to him again and he said that it feels wrong to him. He said that holding me felt right, but everything else felt wrong. I talked with my mom about it and she says it's too soon. That there is too much between us, my hurt and his guilt. I really need some advice!

I dont really know what to say. SF with my WH was fantastic, it was the zero affection after that I struggled with. I think that maybe the fact you do get affection is a good thing.
Vets?

I'm online and reading, but I don't know what advice to give other than keep to your plan. Hopefully others will chime in tomorrow.

I texted him saying that I needed to know that he wanted to heal our relationship and that he wasn't just using me for sex. When I knew that he wanted to fix our relationship, I could promise him that our sex life would be wonderful again. My heart isn't open to him like it was, I'm too hurt, and I'm thinking of other things the entire time that I'm doing this. I told him that we've never had "just" sex and that is why it was so awkward and wrong. BTW, there was nothing wrong with the package...lol it was just a weird feeling.

I honestly think that if we were working on things and trying to reconcile and repair our relationship, that things would go back to being wonderful. But, I can't help thinking of who or what is between us right now. I do think that it's too soon for us to attempt something like that. I was basically doing it for him, not because I wanted to. My heart just hurts too much to be that giving and open again. I also feel that the OW is still between us.

Letter to my WH about last night - (tell me what you think)

Dear WH,
Did you ever think that you didn't want just sex last night, that you wanted me? If you were emotionally disconnected, then you would have been able to have sex and leave, but you couldn't. You said that you wanted so badly to be home with your family and work things out. Family and marriage is a much deeper, abiding love than those exciting feelings that you get from someone that you've only known a short time. It seems that we both wanted different things last night and neither of us got them. Sex is not what we need right now, communication is.
Think about all of this before you write off the relationship. It seems like you want to use this as another excuse to absolve all guilt and say you want out. Marriage is hard, hard work and it's easier to run away than deal with the pressures and work on issues. I can fill your emotional needs and you can fill mine. We can reconnect on an emotional level and recapture all of the sweetness of our relationship to make something even deeper. I'm willing to climb your walls if you will only meet me halfway.

Love,
Ayane


I just spoke with him this morning and he says that he just doesn't think about me that way anymore. Is that possible in three weeks? Could this be fog speak or could it be the truth????

Fog speak.

Ok, I rewrote the letter to something less....pressuring.

Dear WH-
I think the reason we thought things seemed so awkward last night was because we both, whether we realized it or not, came into it feeling as though it was an all or nothing situation. In this type of situation, anything other than fireworks and earth shaking would seem less than perfect. We had such high expectations. I understand because for me it felt like everything rested on that, too. We didn't take time to relax and reconnect as two people who really do love each other should. Falling in love took time and falling back in love will take time also. We can reconnect on an emotional level and recapture all the sweetness of our relationship to make something even better.
I have no expectations. I love you and I'm here for you when you're ready.

Love,
Ayane

The reason it felt so awkward and weird is that you were attempting to have sex with the WS not your husband. You may as well have had sex with a stranger.

Now for the 2x4, what on earth are you doing? You are pregnant and having sex with a WS which means basically having sex with OW and everyone she has been with. That is very dangerous to you and your unborn child. Stop this. Get tested ASAP and if you come back clean please don't jeopardize your baby's health like this again.

As for the letter, you can't educate a wayward. Are you in Plan A? Plan A doesn't include allowing cake-eating. Have you read Pep's notable posts? Please do that. There is a ton of good advice there.

Playing games with a WS does not work.

Ok, I see your point and I understand your concern. That was something that I tentatively thought about (STD's) which I should have thought more about.

He did call me immediately after reading my letter to let me know that I shouldn't read too much into last night. That I am awesome and wonderful, but things are how they are. Which is exactly what I expected him to say. I know that he really believes it, too. Right now, I have no expectations. I feel that last night may have been a turning point, good or bad, I don't know, but a turning point none the less.

As others have said on this site...look at the actions. That is what I'm doing. Words lie. Am I making sense at all? LOL.

I have not read the whole thread but I got this far and had to say something.

They work together?

You need to expose this affair at their place of employment. Many employers have policies regarding workplace relationships. Additionally, they might want to protect themselves from a workplace harassment suit should either person decide the other had harassed them in some way.

She is no longer working there and has moved an hour away to her parents house. They have told her that they will kick her out and disown her if she has any contact with him.

Go OW's parents! At least they have morals and think that some things are sacred and you don't mess with them.

Sorry I was premature.


LOL!!! They are just as nutty. I have one of each. 8th grade, with both children, has been stinky....just different kinds of stinky.

LOL @ different kinds of stinky! I can't wait though, it will totally change the dynamics of our house. Imagine 3 daughters, a wife, a female dog, and even a female fish....lol I'm surprised my WH isn't even more alien-ish! :-)

Speaking of the WH....he stopped by to pick up a video game. He got out of the car, played with the dog and let me talk to the kiddos. DD10 said she told him that he should make me something for Mother's Day and he said that was a good idea. I won't hold my breath though. When DD10 asked what I had been doing today, I made sure to say that I had been finalizing my plans for tonight...in front of WH. He really wouldn't look at me though. The one time he did, he had this weird sort of sad expression on his face. Though he says that he doesn't think about me that way....I'm willing to bet money that he will be thinking of me tonight (maybe not in THAT way) while he is lying awake, alone in his bed.

You WH called to say he wanted sex and then came over to do it, no wonder it was weird. It was a booty call with someone that he loves (even if he won't admit to the love), that doesn't work when the relationship is at this point. Maybe he can call his tramp OW for a booty call, but not the pregnant mother of his children.

I think he knew it would be weird and did it just to try to get some sort of justification for his wayward actions. I would guess he was thinking "see we don't have a connection and there is no sexual attraction, our marriage is over, so I can do what I want without feeling guilty" KWIM?

My FWH and I got drunk and had wild sex, but I really think he had sex out of anger, he was really mad at me for upsetting his new relationship (we had been separated for a few months and he had moved in with OW). But then it confused him because the sex was great! It was at that point that he said his head was in a blender. But we did not plan to have sex, it just happened.

Do not plan to have sex again. If you guys are connecting and it happens spontaneously then great, but do not plan it! You do need to protect yourself and your baby, so have some condoms on hand. Do not talk about the condoms, just have them handy and you open one and you put it on him, make it part of the sex. If you tell him you want him to wear one because you don't know what he may have caught from his tramp then it will kill the mood. You could even get some "fun" condoms and tell him you really want to try this because you think it will feel good. Make it a postive fun thing, not a do it so I don't get an STD thing.

Most importantly do not have sex just to try to win him back, only do it if you really are wanting to. Guys can tell if you are just going through the motions and it won't be great. A big part of the excitement for most guys is knowing that they are being desired and that the woman is enjoying it.

I agree that he wanted to see what it would be like, but he couldn't emotionally disconnect himself from it and of course it's going to be weird when things are so uncomfortable in other ways. He does just want a justification for what he is doing. You are right though....you can't PLAN to have great sex...it happens naturally.

I think that I do have him wondering today though. I've been nice and cheerful, nothing negative to say. I went to the grocery and called to see if the girls needed any food, he said no, but I could bring him back something, sounding happy and almost like the old H. Then, WH came into play and he changed his mind saying no, don't worry about it. Blah, just let it go, man, I wanted to shout.

[quote=Ayane
I think that I do have him wondering today though. I've been nice and cheerful, nothing negative to say. I went to the grocery and called to see if the girls needed any food, he said no, but I could bring him back something, sounding happy and almost like the old H. Then, WH came into play and he changed his mind saying no, don't worry about it. Blah, just let it go, man, I wanted to shout.

[/quote]


You are doing great! Keep being nice and keep him wondering.

As for the food thing. I packed a few of my daughters favorite foods when she went to spend the night with her dad and he got annoyed because he took it to mean that I thought he wasn't capable of taking care of her. I was really just trying to be helpful.

There is such a fine line between being helpful and making them feel like you think they aren't capable.

It sounds like at first your WH was thinking "oh yeah pick me up xyz while you are at the store" and then his mind flashed to "hey I am capable of getting it myself, I don't need you". This is typical for waywards, their thinking can flip from sane to dilusional in a second.

Stay strong and keep up the good work!

I just remembered a thought I had this morning when I was thinking about your situation. You mentioned earlier that you talked to your mom about the comments your WH said about sex with his friend.

Try to limit the bad things you say about your husband to your mom. My relationship with my mom has been very strained after the mess my H and I went through because I told her so much of the crap he was saying and doing.

Also, one of the problems in my marriage was that my H felt that I put my mom ahead of him. I'm not saying you do this, but just thought I would mention it in case you do. I have a lot more to say if you do this. Do you put your mom ahead of your H?

No, I've always put my H ahead of everyone else. But, I have been telling my mom everything about what is going on. She has been the best supporter I could ever have. I see what your saying though. If H and I reconcile, then my mom would have issues with him. Actually, she already does. She is of the mind that only low life scum leave their pregnant wives.

Just imagine if one your daughters was telling you that her husband was doing and saying the things that your WH is. You would want to kill the guy for hurting your daughter like that. I don't think it matters how old we are, we will always be our mothers little girl.

If you do stay married it will be harder for your mom to forgive your WH than you.

Look to your mom for support, but don't tell her all the gory details. Do you have a girlfriend that you could vent to? This will sound harsh, but you can always get a new girlfriend if they can't forgive your WH, but you only have one mom. You need to help protect her from your WH's crap or it can damage your relationship with your mom.

My mom was my best friend until my H and I went through our mess, now I hardly talk to my mom and she never comes to my house. She was my best supporter during our hard times.

I'm sorry I know that has to be hard. I will take your advice to heart. I don't want to lose my mom if my WH and I reconcile...which I don't think is completely hopeless anymore. My mom is great and losing her and gaining back my H is something that I don't even want to think about. Time to start sweet talkin' the H to the mom again!

"She is of the mind that only low life scum leave their pregnant wives."

Might be a generational thing, I'm of the same mind.

Well I'm not exactly happy about it. He definitely could have chosen better timing....like NOT AT ALL. But, I can't control what he does.

Though he would probably be a far better person if I could.... hahaha

Well, don't fret. Our expectant BS's have done quite well.

I actually feel pretty fabulous today, even though all that crap went on. This is the first day that I've put makeup on and felt pretty again. I KNOW that I'm going to be okay, no matter what happens. I KNOW that I have great friends and family and I KNOW that my babies love me no matter what.

It's my WH who gets the crap end of the deal by not being with them everyday. By having to tell them that Momma and Daddy can't live together. By having to hear them tell me that they don't want to go or they don't want me to go. By having to hear DD5 say, "I want to hang out with my Momma and my Daddy, together!". He is the one who will lose out in the end, not me.

-A-

I must say that I was very upset when WH told DD5 that Mommy and Daddy can't live together anymore. That really did hurt. I spoke with his mother today and she just kept saying, he needs to go home to his wife instead of being here. He knows it too, but he's being stubborn. She just keeps saying that she and his dad think he will wake up and want to come home. His dad has been saying this from the start. When I told her that he said he didn't think of me in a sexual way anymore, she rolled her eyes and said, "[censored], he is only trying to convince himself of that". At least she agrees

I had fun going out tonight. I went by the in-laws house on the way home and my WH's car wasn't there. I called him and told him that if he wasn't going to be there with the girls (his mom was there, they weren't alone) then I would just come pick them up since I missed them. He said that he would be going back soon. I (of course over-reacting)got upset (but this was after I got off the phone) thinking that he was over at a certain friends house (this friend lives with a chick that my WH cheated on me with). I cried and prayed and he called me back within 3 minutes telling me that he was on his way back to his parents (he still doesn't call it home) and that I didn't have anything to worry about.

Seriously, it seems obvious that this man DOES love me. Obvious to everyone but him. He called me back so quickly and we talked about stupid, everyday stuff. He asked my opinions on things and thanked me profusely for having all three girls hang out with him today. He even told me where he was (he wasn't at that friends house thank goodness!) and why he went without me even asking. *sigh* From his actions, it seems that he really does care and love me. Why can't HE see that?

Oh yeah...checked the OW's myspace page. LOL her mood is 'betrayed'...hmmm wonder what that has to do with? It made me happy to see however :-)

It is great that you have supportive in-laws, but keep in mind that your WH is their son.

I'm glad you had fun going out, but if you had him wondering where you were and what you were doing, he stopped wondering as soon as you called him.

I know it is hard to refrain from calling hime and I remember feeling like a drunk dialer during my hard times. I remember trying to come up with any little reason to call and sleeping with my phone on next to me just in case he called. This has got to be so much harder for you with all the pregnancy hormones.

But it really does sound to me like he does love you and he is the typical wayward in the fog, it also sounds like he is trying to get his act together. You've been doing great, just keep being supportive of the good things he does. And you are very right to watch his actions, not his words.

HAPPY MOTHER'S DAY

HAPPY MOTHER'S DAY to you also! We just returned home from a wooonderful lunch with the in-laws. I'm completely stuffed and ready for a nap! DD12 slammed DD5's arm in the car door, so she is all pitiful and stuff. Her poor little arm is bruised, but not broken, thank goodness! She is currently watching cartoons and munching on a popsicle...and she seems fine. Oh, the resiliency of youth!

Ouch! My 6 year old got her hand slammed in a van door a few weeks ago. I felt so bad for her, she was crying and looked at me through her tears and said "Mom you don't know how bad it hurts" I told her "Baby I know it hurts worse than anything ever" I think me confirming that her pain was real helped her feel better. She was perfectly fine within 2 days, the young do heal so fast.

I'm glad to hear you had a nice lunch. I'm on the west coast so it's not even lunch time here yet.

I just read a thread from Schoolbus "Schoolbus info tread- body language, memory, etc." Wow it has some great ideas on how you can help rebuild your intimate connection with your WH. It is really great. You must read it!

I read that thread and it was wonderful! Hopefully, I will get the chance to apply some of those on my WH. I spoke with him earlier and we had this whole convo about a certain video game (yeah we are both video game lovers) and he said that he wanted to bring it over here to show to me. Of course, the fact that his expensive TV and surround sound is here is the main reason, I'm sure! :-) But, it was still a nice conversation.

Oh! While at lunch today, MIL talks about how WH can't call her house his home, because he knows where his home is and it isn't there. She says that he needs to go home and he knows that, but he is stubborn and wants to do things his own way. Basically, being humble, asking forgiveness, and agreeing to all my terms would be a problem for him. I know this too. But, until he gets to that point, I don't want him here anyway.

DD5 is already asking to play on the pc, she is tired of being babied and lying around. Apparently, her arm is fine now. LOL, I wish I could get over things that quickly! :-)

Does WD from the affair/affair partner last a specific period of time or does it vary with each individual. I really think that my WH is no longer speaking with the OW, as he is calling me a lot and when she was around, I would rarely hear from him. So, I was curious about the WD phase. Of course, he would have to get over his stubbornness which could take forever...but I just want him to WAKE UP and snap out of this crazy wayward fog crap!

I think I have read that withdrawal usually lasts from 3 weeks to 6 months once NC is established.

As far as the stubbornness goes, who knows. Pride and stubbornness would have kept me and my H apart, but we have a good friend that told me how she believed that pride was what caused her parents to never get back together. My H and I could really relate to them and made a concerted effort to not let our pride get in the way of our marriage.

I tried to hide my upset over this, but I can't do it. Went to in laws house because I got a baby bassinet and other baby items, including a monitor where I can hear the heartbeat. My WH was on the pc and watching television. He was so unbelievable UNexcited and UNcaring about the baby stuff, it was excrutiating to me. My MIL and all three daughters were so happy and excited to hear the heartbeat, but WH only said, "I can hear it". It's hard for me not to be upset over that. I had to leave so that I wouldn't show how it hurt. I can't believe he could be so cold to his own flesh and blood.

I know that you guys have heard all of this before, but I still need to get it out somewhere. I feel bad, like I'm saying the same things over and over again and everyone (you posters here too) are tired of hearing it....but if I don't spill it somewhere, the venom will come spewing out.

Oh, Ayane, I'm so sorry. Hubby is really out there..........

Personally, I would put him on the back burner (NOT LITERALLY, don't get carried away) and make a good life for you and your children. In fact, I would be very much less available.

That must have really hurt. But we've seen it before, and they do change back.

Oh sweetie, don't worry about saying things over and over, that is what is great about this place, there are so many people who have been where you are and understand how you feel.

As for WH not getting excited about the baby stuff, try not to let it get it to you. I have seen men who are very happy to be having a baby not get excited about all the baby stuff.

Hang in there!

That's what I'm trying to do, but I really enjoy speaking with him. We could always talk and play off of each other and we still can. But, I suppose if I'm not at his beck and call (that always reminds me of Pretty Woman "I'd love to be your beck and call girl LOL) he will start wondering more. Blah, I hate feeling like I'm playing games though.

On a good note....I should find out about that job tomorrow, yay! If I don't get it (which I don't see why I wouldn't, they hire just about anyone) then I'll start scouting for a new one :-)

I'm having a bad morning. I had dreams about my WH all night and the last one really stuck with me. In it, he was moving away to a foreign country to go to school and everytime myself or the children tried to speak with him, it was like we were invisible. He couldn't see or hear us.

That's how I feel. That nothing I say or do matters, except to push him further away. I just want to run home to my family, but I can't do that at the moment. I just get discouraged and think, what's the point? Nothing matters to him but what HE wants, so why do I even care or try? I know that I can't expect things to change overnight, but I guess I expect to see something .

Yeah, I'm down today. I just don't know what to do. I am working on me, but that just doesn't seem to be enough, right now.

GOOD NEWS!!! I got a job....(yeah I'm dancing around the house LOL)!!!! I'm so excited. Okay, off to get ready and head to work :-)

Congratulations! Now the hard part, try to focus on work and not let all this crap get in your way of doing a good job. I was such a mess that my work suffered and I lost many clients.

As for being at his beck and call, that is a tough one. On one hand you want to be there for him if he is having NC and going through withdrawal. But on the other hand, you want to get him to wonder what you are up to and start pursuing you.

I personally was at my H's beck and call, until I got fed up with him saying one day he wanted me and then the next day he wanted OW. After a couple of weeks of that I was mentally and physically exhausted and went out of town for a few days where we had no cell phone service. My H got really mad and I thought for sure we were through, then about a week later he saw me ready to go out on a date and lost it. He spent all night crying and calling me over and over (because I wouldn't answer). That was the day he was finally on board with our marriage for good.

Just keep up the good converations and keep looking good!

I thought about asking my WH if he wanted to come by tonight when he gets off work and bring that video game to show me. I wasn't sure if it was too soon to do something like that or not.

Also, I received the book, Getting Back Together today and I've been reading it. It's pretty good so far.

WH still hasn't been to the child support office, so I guess they will be serving him with the paperwork. He wants me to try to set up a time for him, since he only has a prepaid cell phone and not enough minutes on it. He won't tell me what days he is off and says that he CANNOT go up there tomorrow. Which makes me wonder what he has going on and why he can't tell me.

I would invite him over. Just keep it friendly with no expectations. If he says yes then have a good time. If he says tonight isn't good just sound casual and say okay.

If he does come over maybe there will be a chance to use some of schoolbus's tips. I was also thinking maybe you should try schoolbus's tips on your kids so that they become comfortable for you. If you feel uncomfortable he will sense it and it could make it awkward instead of intimate. I hope this makes sense.

As far as him not getting the job, just stay supportive and have fun at the same time. Try to build him up.

Keep in mind that you want him to feel good when he is with you or talking to you. Its how other make us feel about ourselves that makes us want to be with them.

I'm glad you are having moments of happiness and are able to laugh, you sound like an incredibly strong woman.

Hey let me know what you think of that book, I've never heard of it.

A book that I found very interesting and full of great ideas on meeting each others needs was The Five Love Languages. It talks about what makes different people feel loved. I've found that my husband enjoys acts of service, like me cooking him dinner and taking care of the house. While I like words of affirmation. Its funny because while reading this book I was able to see that my husband was trying to show me he loved me by doing acts of service, while I was feeling unloved because I needed to hear the words of affirmation. Okay now I am babbling, but it really is a great book.

I asked him and he said probably not tonight, because he would get out of work too late. I was all cool and not really disappointed, I wasn't expecting him to say yes, actually. But, he did say that he would come by maybe tomorrow or Wednesday, who knows. I don't want him to feel obligated, though, so I probably won't mention it again.

Now that I think more about tomorrow, though, I think that he is probably going to the college. He only has until Friday to get it done, so....that is a huge possibility. I just get worked up at first LOL.

CantLetItGo - Thank you for the compliment. I've been called strong a lot lately and I don't see it at all. I feel like a baby, new, alone, completely stripped bare of everything, trying to find my way. It's a little scary and intimidating, but I do have to admit, I like a challenge!!! Thank you for all your great advice...I look for what you have to say when I come on here!

I know exactly what you mean. This past year there have been so many times when friends have told me that I am strong and doing great and I just want to yell "Are you kidding me, I am such a mess, and feel so weak". But the lady in me prevails and I just thank them.

Just a couple of weeks ago my H asked me how the housing sales in our area were doing lately (I'm in the real estate business) and I told him I hadn't look at sales in our neighborhood lately because last time I did they weren't good and it made me think about all the mistakes I've made in life. He was very sweet and said something like "don't you feel like we are stronger now" I got teary and said "No, I feel weak" Now it is not like me to say things like that, but I think it helped me feel better for him to see that side of me and I think it helped him to really know me better. I'm really working on the whole communication thing. I actually just got home from my weekly counseling session where I am working on my communication and getting my strength back.

I do hope what I say helps you in some way. From the first time I read your posts I related so much to how you feel.

I have a problem with communication also. I always want to be the "strong" one and I feel that if I let out my emotions, I will give someone power over me or be seen as feminine and "weak". Does that make sense? My mom says that I've always been rather closed mouth about my feelings. This is something that I am working on in counseling, also. I want to be open to other people and I will say that I have been more open with everyone since the separation began than I have in years! So, that is one good thing that has come of this.

I just hope that my WH comes around as yours did. From what you say, it seems as though he really did love you the entire time. Did he ever tell you that he didn't love you? I'm just worried that this is NOT all fog babble and that he really means what he is saying.

BTW, the book is Getting Back Together by Bettie Youngs Bilicki and Masa Goetz. It talks about how separation can be a good thing and that premature reconciliation can cause a permanent divorce, etc, etc. That is about as far into as I've gotten LOL.

Not only did my H tell me he didn't love me. He told me he never loved me the way he loved OW.

The first time he came back home to try to work on our marriage and I tried to cuddle him during the night he told me that he felt like he was cheating on OW. When I asked if he ever felt bad when he was cheating on me he said "No". He of course did not even remember saying those things months later.

Those are just a couple of examples, he said horrible things, he criticized everything about me, my weight (I am 5'4" and weighed 130lbs, 120lbs is my ideal weight), my hair color (I let it go natural to light brown instead of coloring it blonde), my clothes (the jeans I was wearing were not low rise), the hair on my upper legs (it was winter and I hadn't shaved my upper legs in a while), my lack of make-up, my boobs (34A- now 34DD, I scheduled a boob job while we were separated), the list goes on and on and on.

He really tore me down, he had a lot of anger for me which he worked on in individual conseling before we reconciled. Which BTW he called marriage counseling even though he refused to let me go. He yelled at me that he was done. He filed divorce papers. It was really bad.

Oh wow. I'm very sorry that I asked you that question now. It has to be hard writing all of that. I'm sorry! What made him turn around?

Blah, I wish that I weighed 130lbs LOL! I'm 5'6 and weighed around 125lbs when we got together and when I got pregnant I was up to 165lbs! I was completely disgusted with myself and the way that I looked. And, that is something that I am going to work on when I have the baby.

I'm glad that he turned around. Has marriage counseling (the real deal) helped out a lot?

Don't be sorry that you asked, it was not hard to write. What is hard is that I can't get that crap out of my head. My point in telling you all that was that waywards can say some horrible things. Also, all of this was said while he supposed wanted to come home and work on our marriage. He had a lot of anger he worked on in counseling by himself.

As for the marriage counseling, it was interesting, but I think my H's individual counseling helped the most. I truely believe he had a sort of mental breakdown during this time. It was during this time that he told me on the phone that he didn't care if he died and then he hung up on me.

You asked what made him turn around? Well, it is against the MB advice, but seeing me going on a date killed him. First he yelled at me that he couldn't believe I was dating so soon and while he was in marriage counseling. I laughed at him and said he must be joking since he starting dating before he told me he wanted a divorce and that is he was in marriage counseling his wife would be going with him. Then he told me to finish my beer and get out (I was dropping my daughter off at his new apartment that he had just moved into since he realized how wrong it was for him to be living with the OW). I calmly poured my beer down the drain and walked out. Within minutes he was calling me and yelling at me on the phone. Then I stopped answering and he called over and over until I finally called back hours later. He told me that he loved me and that he wanted to go to marriage counseling with me. He then went over to OW's condo and got his quad out of her garage and told her he could never see her again. He was supposed to go riding with her the next day before he realized he loved me. The next day when I came to pick up my daughter, he cried and told me that he was so sorry and that he loved me. There was a lot that lead up to this point and I think if he had seen me going on a date a few weeks earlier he would not have had the same reaction. I did not know about MB at that time and had no plan. I just knew I wanted my husband and my family back.

I'm glad that you got what you wanted. Hopefully, things will get better here also. It just seems that when I think things are getting better, something happens and it gets worse. It's the whole one step forward and two steps back....or so it seems. I don't know. I'm trying not to get discouraged, but it's hard. I'm not a very patient person and this is something that I can't control and hurry along. That's hard for me. Right now, it's like the ball is in my WH's court and I don't like that. I have the whole "what if" syndrome going on.

What if he doesn't change his mind?
What if he really means what he says?
What if he only wants to come back home because he can't stay with his parents anymore?
What if he really DOESN'T love me?
What if, what if, what if?

I hate all these thoughts. I only want to think happy, happy, joy, joy thoughts about working on myself, but it's a difficult process. WH said that he wanted someone less negative in his life and wanted to go forward in a positive way. However, it seems that the only things he has changed are:
1. Where he lives
2. The fact that he can come and go and do whatever he pleases
3. Pushing me out of his life

He says that these things make him happier and make him feel better about his life and himself. THAT makes me feel HORRIBLE. *sigh*

I spoke again with his mom last night. She says that she has asked him point blank what he wanted (divorce, etc) and he couldn't give her an answer. She says that if he was gung ho and that was what he really wanted, he would be telling everyone. Of course, he could just not want to tell her, but I don't know why he wouldn't. She's said a lot on this subject and she seems to think that things will get better and he will come home. I don't know.

WH keeps calling and asking for stuff. For example - he just called to see if he could use our (excuse me, MY) van to help his friend move sometime this week. I have no problem with that, until I think of all the things that I wanted him to move in our house that he never would. I have been trying to get him to move the furniture around for months and he couldn't do it. BUT, he has no problem helping his friend move AND asking me if he can use something of mine. Nice. I guess those things don't matter at this time. *sigh*

You should tell him he can use it IF he comes to your house and does XYZ for you first.

LOL I told him that he would have to clean it out for me first. I just got a bunch of baby stuff and I haven't felt like taking it in. I have a bassinet and three boxes of baby stuff along with misc. crap. Heh, so he DOES have to do that.

It just seems like he wants stuff from me that he would ask me for previously, but I'm not getting that much out of it.

Do you know who the friend is that he is helping move?

Yes, I know him. I have his wife as one of my friends on myspace. Think I should confirm with her?

I would confirm with her, but DON'T let her know you are confirming to check up on WH. It is crazy but waywards get all upset if you act like you don't trust them.

My H got all crazy about wanting one of the big TV's and some furniture after he moved in with his OW. I think he was just crazy because he was used to living in a nice house and moved into her dive condo that looked like a college student lived there.

I think waywards go into a sort of withdrawal from their home when they move out. So many go from a nice family home to a dive apartment.

I would make sure that your WH isn't using the van to help OW move something.

I sent her an email telling her that WH asked to use my van but didn't tell me what day so I needed to know so I could make sure that it would be available. Since I'm working now haha

Yeah that did cross my mind, the helping the OW thing. But, her parents would probably be around, so I can't see that happen. However, my van is much nicer than his car, so I wouldn't put it past him to attempt to drive it to where she lives. I'm going to make sure to check the mileage.

Spoke to my mom about everything...my wavering between hopeful and hopeless, etc. She said he's probably going back and forth also. I'm sure this is a crazy time for everyone. It just seems that the males have it much easier as they get to come and go as they please without having to worry about the kids, etc, etc. Must be nice.

My WH didn't spend his night at his parents tonight. I wonder where he is. I know that the OW is now at her parents house so I highly doubt that he is there. I just want to ask him where he is spent his night, but that will just start an argument. *sigh*

Nah. None of your business at this point.

Focus on yourself. Make selfish demands. Take care of yourself. Don't give things away. If he wants a favor from you, get something out of it first. Tell him he has to move something for you first before he can use the van, since you're redecorating your house.

At the very least tell him you expect him to bring it back detailed (vacuumed, washed and waxed, and cleaned inside).

Yeah it may not be my concern, but I still worry about it. *sigh* Oh well. I asked his friends wife when they were moving so that I could make sure my van was available and she never replied back to me, which makes me think that maybe he isn't planning to use my van to help them, I don't know.

I don't think I am going to let him use it now. I don't have to say yes. He always wants something from me without giving much in return, so I think this time I won't be so accomidating.

His friend told me that they are moving all week, but I still don't know if I want to let my WH use it or not. I still don't know if I believe it. He lies so easily. Not only that, I'm just tired. Tired of worrying and wondering.

Ugh right now I feel hateful and mean. I want to start an argument with him so at least I know that he is feeling something. I don't know how to detach and let go. I'm such a passionate person about everything that I do and it's so hard because I can't force this with my will, I can't make this happen, I can't control this. So, basically, I guess it comes down to the fact that I'm fearful because I'm not the one in control. I'm not the one in the driver's seat with this and I don't like it one bit. I guess I've just got to find ways to chill, but man, it's hard!

I'm surprised that more vets have not responded to your posts. I copied the following from a post from MelodyLane on the thread "2008 = crazy year" It outlines Plan A. Have you read Surviving the Affair?

Here is an outline of plan A:

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A by Pepperband


The carrot of Plan A

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.


The stick of Plan A

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.

If you're looking for some good posts, here's what I posted on lildoggie's thread ("The Snake" thread):

I just bumped two posts here on GQII:

"Notable Posts" thread by Pepperband

"The Rules of Plan A ..." by ark^^

and in case you haven't yet read about the carrot and the stick of Plan A, here's the link to the post on "Just Found Out":

The Carrot and The Stick

This is also good:
Plan C is NOT a plan!

Well more crazy drama. I thought that he had been in contact with the OW and I was right. He drove up to see her and spent the night up there. Of course, he lied about it and had his friends lie about it. Well, except one. He told me the truth. And apparently the other woman paid for the gas for him to get up there!!!

He is such a liar. He told me that he lies to me because nothing he does is right unless he comes back to me and even then nothing he does will be right. I've been totally pissed off and love busting left and right and I don't even care! I don't even know if I want this man back. He has lied so much that I can't believe a word that he says.

I contacted a divorce lawyer about going ahead and filing a motion so that he can't take anything in the house, etc, etc.

*sigh*

I told my WH that I was done. I couldn't take his lying and running around. My heart is too sore and my feelings too raw. I told him that I couldn't do this anymore, that he wants out of our marriage so badly, and he's getting it so I hope it makes him happy. I went on for a good 10 minutes and he said absolutely NOTHING. I don't know if he was shocked or what. But, he was silent. He wanted to come over and speak to me, but I said no, there is nothing left to be said. I told him that all I expected of him during this time we were separated was honesty and for him to at least wait until the baby is born or we filed for divorce for him to carry on with the OW. He couldn't do either of those. I told him that if she was so special and he felt so connected, why couldn't he wait?

I feel tired and drained now...with a killer headache and I have to go to work in an hour. I really am done. Unless he comes begging on his knees and even then I don't know. I hope that you other posters will continue to support me throughout this. I need support badly.

-A-

I am so sorry things have taken such a turn. If you are done you need to read up on plan B and quick. Find a person you trust to be the go between and go DARK. No talking to him, no seeing him etc. Craft the plan B letter stating why you can't be in contact with him and on what terms you would be willing to give your marriage another try. I suspect you floored him with this and his head is still spinning. Get into plan B as soon as you can.

You tried! if it's taking this long to snap out of his teenage behaviour now..what is it going to be like the next time? you said he cheated before too, right?
If he wanted to be home he would be home! don't let him disrespect you like this. His loss.

How old is this guy?

I'm so sorry, Ayane. Do you have someone you can be with when you get off work? Parents, siblings, friend? I hope you don't have to be alone.

I'm so sorry your WH is being such a jerk. The way he was acting did indicate that he was still in contact with the OW. I think what you said to him was right on point.

It's similar to a conversation I had with my H before we got back together. He and I both yelled at each how done we were.

What seems odd to me is that your WH does not seem to have much reaction to anything you say or do. Is this normal for him? I would think he would react somehow, not just be silent.

I think the others are right that you need to read up on plan B.

Really try to focus on taking care of yourself and your children. Also, try not to let all this interfer with your new job.

It just occured to me that you said OW paid for WH's gas. Does WH have a job or any means of support?

As for getting support here, I will be here and respond to you as long as you want me to. I know it feels like your world is falling apart but you will make it through this. And whatever the outcome of your marriage you will always have your wonderful kids and your family. I know I said before to not say too much to your mom, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't call her and ask for support.

We had a HUGE blowout after work today. I spoke with the OW's mother and he has told the OW that I was into drugs and that he only has two children (which technically he does but he has raised my other two and he considers them his, they call him dad). I was horrified at some of the things that he has told the OW and she told her mother. I feel kind of sorry for the OW now (not completely, but somewhat).

I let his mother know what he had said and he showed up and threw a fit. He said that he had never said that, blah, blah, blah. Then he admitted that he was partly leaving because of the OW. He said that he had to divorce me and end this so that he could associate with her without it affecting her family situation. I told my oldest two daughters exactly what he said about divorcing. Those were his exact words.

I also let him know that I had told them this. He threw my cell phone at me twice and pushed me against the house. I don't know who this person is! Obviously we can't have contact and I shouldn't be upset, but I am. *sigh*

Oh my gosh! Are you okay! Do not give him the chance to be close enough to you again to lay a hand on you. Did your girls see him push you? You really need to show them that his behavior is completely unacceptable. It really is time for Plan B. Do not talk to him anymore, write him a Plan B letter, do not talk to OW or OW's parents anymore.

And yes you should be upset. This is a very upsetting turn of events. You have every right to be upset!

I want to go into Plan B, but not to reconcile our relationship. At least not at this point. Right now, I don't know if I want to reconcile at all. I just want to be done with everything.

That's why it is so important for you to do plan B now! Read some other threads about plan B and write your plan B letter. I think just doing that will help you get back some of the control you have lost in your life. Your WH is treating you so badly that I think plan B will give you some peace.

I remember feeling a sense of control and power when my H and I had the whole "I am so done" fight. Just making the decision to be done knowing that you did everything you could to save your marriage can feel good in a strange way. At least it did for me. Don't get me wrong I was really sad, but I had a sense of peace.

I know the vets on here say to stick to one thread. But I am thinking maybe you should start a new thread to get help with your plan B and then link this thread to it, so they can read your whole story.

The one thing I really dislike about posting online is that I feel like I have gotten to know you and I wish I could just give you a big hug and bring you a milkshake (if you weren't pregnant, I would have said bottle of wine).

Do you have a friend or family member than can come spend the night with you? If not give lots of hugs to your girls and remember you always have them. Even when they are stinky teenagers.

A big hug and a milkshake would be fantastic right now! I don't have anyone to stay with me, but I feel okay. I am sad that it has come to this, but I think I'm ready to open myself to new possibilities (at least at this moment). My pride is hurt that he would prefer someone else to me, but this isn't the first time, so it shouldn't hurt that much.

My oldest daughter said, so I guess we should tell him we're sorry when she turns out to be not what he thinks she is? Because he has only known her a couple months. I can't believe that he would give up seven years for two months.
LOL, out of the mouth of babes!

Oh I so remember that feeling. Almost a sort of freedom, like you don't know what the future holds, but you are ready for the journey to find out.

That is perfect! I like that a lot. I will go look at Plan B threads, because I really have no idea what to write.

Oh my gosh, a lot has happened. Where is your plan, girl?

You should know by now that he is going to act like a drug addict. And he is!

Please, please don't put yourself through all of this. The affair will end, and I'm certain he will want to come back.

You know he is cheating. Quit checking. Treat him like an addict, and don't expect ANYTHING.

You REALLY need to put him on the back burner and take care of you, your baby, and your family.

Stop talking to him. Stop anwering the phone. Stop checking on him.

That is exactly what I am going to do. By the time the A ends, I won't want him back anyway/ I'm ready to be done with all of this heartache. I don't know if I can ever forget the ugly way he has treated me and the fact that her feelings are more important than anyone elses.

What should I write about in my Plan B letter?

So sorry things have taken such a turn. I just caught up on your thread and you WH is definitely behaving along the lines of a jerky WH. Some are more extreme than others and it sounds like you've scored a dandy one. Some of the crap my FWH pulled is absolutely unbelievable. I didn't even post some of it on my thread because I just couldn't stand the thought of seeing it in writing.

My FWH is also a very quiet person and rarely gets excited about anything. It's still very difficult for me to watch him smile and say thank you, this is nice when I get him a gift that I spent hours trying to find. This past Christmas, I got him an original watercolor painting of a place we'd been together that was very special to him and he got tears in his eyes. This was the first time I'd ever known for sure that something I'd done affected him. This was at a time when he was being a huge jerk and refusing to attend Christmas with my family. Soon after this, I found out about his almost 2 year A. So, if this is normal for him, you should know by now that he isn't going to show excitement about things that you are excited about - that's just him. Also keep in mind that he isn't your loving H now. He's an alien WH and his behavior and attitude now is totally related to his A and OW.

One thing I want to caution you about on a practical basis is to not spill your guts about what you're doing with your lawyer. You don't owe him this info and anything you tell him can be used against you. Anything you do to set up a future for your kids and yourself should be done as quietly as you can. Make sure you do everything related to your finances as far under the radar as possible and make sure it's all in your own name so he can't get to it.

As you decide what you want for your life, Plan B will probably serve you well. If you choose someone to be your go-between who is willing and able to filter his communication and manage the kid communication that will help you remove yourself from the stress of dealing with him. It will give you a chance to also get your act together regarding what you think you may want. Do as I say, not as I do here....!!! I was told time and again to go to Plan B, but I couldn't get there for various reasons. You're not in the same place I was, though, and it may be just what you need to get your sanity back.

Congratulations on your job!!

Thank you, thank you! I'll be happy to get my sanity back too! :-)

I'm looking over some Plan B letters that others have written. I don't want to put anything in mine about not speaking with him until he is ready for recovery because I don't know if that is what I want.

Any suggestions?

You are on the rollercoaster right now. Don't make any decisions. It is much too early. The affair will end and then he will be your regular husband again.

Plan B is where you need to be and SOON. There are some good letters here that you can go by. I saw one the other day, but can't remember the thread.

Anyway, stop engaging with him. And start getting ready for a very dark Plan B. Take your time and get your ducks in a row.

You sound so certain. However, I don't want to wait a couple years, etc in case it lasts that long. I know that I wouldn't take him back right now even if he begged. Will I change my mind? Will he? Will the marriage be worth it?

Hopefully it won't take years.

And only you can answer the question "is the marriage worth it".

Most BS's won't settle for going back to the old marriage. They insist on something better - a completely new marriage.

I'm in Plan B as of the last time that he and I talked (last night about 8pm cst). However, I haven't written a letter, because right now I DON'T want him back, I want to go on to Plan D and get it overwith! Well, let me correct that. 75% of me doesn't want him back and 25% does, but not this person that he is now. I am so confused and hurt and angry. My pride aches.

I need help with a simple letter. Are there any samples?

That's the girl!
I know right now it feels that it's easier said than done but with time you will have you sanity back, and think of your new found freedom, girl!

I'm so sorry, too bad I wasn't close to you
It sounds like the only support you have is his family and that isn't going to work. A Mama will always be there for her kids no matter what sh!tty things he has done.

Well I'm not the most perfect person for letters because I'm a hot head.LOL
But you should have something in your letter that mentions how you will NOT wait, and you'll NEVER be second best or the back up plan to no man.
This man is choosing and it's obvious he wants his cake and eat it too. I think you need to serve him with D papers to put the fear of god in him. If he doesn't want you then, then you have your answer.


Good Luck.

I wrote a Plan B letter, but after praying a lot, I've decided not to send it at this time. I'm sure that I will eventually, but I feel that now isn't a good time. However, if he wants to be with the OW so badly, then HE will file for divorce and pay for it. I'm not doing it just so that he can hang with her without her family kicking her out of her home and not paying for her to go to school.

Yes, please don't forget the ugly way he treated you. While he may be acting like an addict with the A, pushing you is a pretty good sign - of LACK of character. Your children deserve better than that, and they need to learn NOT to be like him.

I hope you told her, or will tell her, "No, honey, you don't have to tell him anything except exactly what you are thinking."

ETA, just removing yourself from him and setting up someone to help be your go-between so you no longer have to talk to him should be good for a little while, but I think you will get some emotional relief by giving him a letter. Give yourself the weekend to come up with something.

Also, have you been to a lawyer just to set things up so he can't take anything from you financially? Better be safe than sorry. It sounds like he just might try to ruin you no matter how it affects the kids.

Where is his other child? I missed that one.

Surviving An Affair has a Plan B letter in it. If you want I can copy it and post it on here for you? Also, you might want to post your letter on here first to get some advice on it. I've seen a few Plan B letters on different threads on here.

Yes, if you could post the letter, that would be great. Also, my WH went to the library today to get divorce papers (is that possible?) and now wants me to sign them so he can file. I said NO and he won't stop calling.

He spoke with my mother and she told him that she feels I should sign the papers so I can get on with my life and get rid of him! However, I don't want to. He is a creep, a jerk, a liar, and a manipulator, but when I said my vows I meant them. *sigh* I can't decide if I should just give up or what. I really thought that God was telling me to keep trying, but maybe he wasn't. I don't know.

DD10 told me that she doesn't want her dad and I to get a D and that she misses him being in the house. I asked her if she had told him this and she said no. I told her that he needs to know how you feel too, but she thinks that he doesn't care. She said that he knows that DD12 is mad at him and he doesn't care. I told her that I think he does, but he doesn't know how to fix it.

OW's mother has FORBIDDEN her to speak to or see my WH. OWM said that she wants someone better for her daughter and that if she finds out she has anything to do with him she will kick OW out and not pay for her to go to school. I wonder if this will help? OWM said I'm probably better off without my WH anyway LOL. She was giving me advice as if she were MY mom haha it was funny! She seems like a very nice woman. I do feel sorry that she was dragged into this, but it was the OW's and WH's fault, not mine.

I know the divorce laws vary from state to state. But I don't remember signing anything when my H filed papers. From what I recall, he filed the papers and then I was served with them and had an alloted time to respond. I could be wrong my head was a mess during that time.

Do NOT sign anything without getting a lawyers advice. Your H may be trying to get you to sign them so that it benifits him someway.

Good for OWM! But OW is only 19 and most likely will not listen to her. At least her life will be made more difficult.

Does your WH have a job? Does he give you any support?

Your probably right about OW, but I know that she is daddy's little girl and really respects her family, so who knows. Hopefully, she will listen to OWM, who sounds a lot like my own mom. LOL my mom told me to hurry and get the divorce overwith so that I can get on with my life and get back to normal.

Yes, WH does have a job and he has been giving me child support, so that is a good thing. However, he asked today if he had to pay it even if he wasn't ordered to yet. I said I wasn't sure, but they would probably go back to when he left and start from there.

Okay here is the plan B letter from Surviving an Affair.

My Dear Sue,
I apologize to you for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair with Greg possible. I foolishly pursued my career without understanding my responsibility to meet your most important emotional needs. I was not there for you when you needed me most, and we are now both suffering for my mistake.

I am willing to avoid the mistakes I've made in the past and create a new life for both of us that meet your needs. But I cannot do that until you end your relationship with Greag once and for all.

Until then, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. I will also not be able to help you financially. Our friends Jane and Paul have agreed to help make arrangements for you to visit the children whenever you would like. But I will not be here when you visit. If you want to communicate about the children or any other matter, it will have to be through Jane and Paul.

I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you this way. You must know about the suffering I have endured because of your relationship with Greg, and I simply cannot be with you any longer, knowing that you are with him. I still love you but I cannot see you under these conditions.

As soon as you are willing to permanently separate from Greg and are willing to follow the measures that were suggested to ensure total separation, I will be willing to discuss our future together.

I want us to be able to rebuild our marriage someday. I want us to be able to meet each other's emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We need to build a new lifestyle in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there will never again be a reason for us to separate. I want to be your best friend, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you as my best friend.

I loved you when we married and I continue to love you right up to this day. I just cannot be with you or help you as long as you are seeing Greg.

With my love,
Jon

You really need to order the book and read it from cover to cover. It will help you immensely during this difficult time.

Yeah I need to do that. Blah WH keeps calling me today. He is really being harrassing.

When my H started calling me all the time and being crazy there was a lot of anger in his voice. I told him he needed to figure out why he was so angry with me. He actually took my advice and went to a counselor to work on getting over his anger. Afterall we had to figure out how to get along for the kids. I am very lucky that he got a good counselor and it made all the difference in the world.

What does your WH say he is calling about? Does he have real reasons or is he just making stuff up so he can call and vent on you?

He's basically just calling to vent on me. He is upset that I told the oldest two girls that he had left because he wanted to "associate" (his word) with another woman. He is now saying that I took it out of context and he didn't say it that way. He says that I took their love and trust from them. AHHHH!!! I could just scream!! Is he pissed because I've ruined his plans (he can never have an actual relationship with OW, her parents would disown her, they would have to sneak around all the time, neither makes much money, and it would get old) and everyone knows? He is trying to make me feel bad for telling everyone everything.

Spoke to FIL. He is going to talk with my WH tonight and try to get the full story and find out what is going on. He has said that if WH doesn't pay child support, continue to work, and get his butt in school he is not going to be able to stay at their house. LOL, it sounds like my WH is back to being a teenager

You need to get a plan going. I'm certain your hubby will be back, but I sure as H wouldn't take him back before he is working steadily, willing to have some boundaries and is making some amends to you and his family.

You certainly don't want him back because it is the easiest thing to do.

Have you read the thread "Pretty Good Plan B post from 1999 - GOOD STUFF" that Princessmeggy started? It has a link to Plan B 101. I didn't read the whole thread, but it looks like there are examples of Plan B letters and details on what you need to do to implement Plan B.

No, I haven't but I will go looks at it. *sigh* I'm tired, but I think pretty resigned at this point. I keep thinking, maybe I have been acting crazy and irrational and maybe I never will be good for anyone if that is how I am. Then I think, if I really loved my WH wouldn't I want him to be happy? Did I expose and try to ruin everything with him and the OW for purely selfish reasons? Did I just not want someone else to have him? These things have been running through my head all morning.

FIL must have had a long hard talk with my WH last night. He called me early this morning "just to talk". He told me about school and apologized for being such a jerk (it sounded forced, but maybe he was making an effort). Of course, he is probably only being nice so that he can try to sponge my laptop off of me, but it's not going to work this time If he wants a computer he can go buy one himself. I am done being the one taking care of him. He wants out and wants a divorce, then he can take care of himself (which he isn't even doing since he is living at the in laws).

On a good note though; he is talking about getting back on his medications for depression and ADD and also going to individual counseling (well I informed him that he would have to go if he wanted to get his medication, as he doesn't have insurance and the only place that is based on your income makes you go to counseling BEFORE you can even see a doctor to prescribe meds). Maybe doing all these things will wake him up, I don't know. As I've said in previous posts, I don't even know if I want him to be with him. The larger part of me doesn't, but there is a small part that loves him so. However, I'm getting used to be alone and not having to cater or worry about what he wants. I like it that the girls and I can watch girly shows on tv (like America's Next Top Model....woohoo finally a fuller figured girl won!!!) and not have to listen to his crap about how he doesn't want to watch it and why can't we go upstairs so he can use the big screen to play his video games. *sigh* Today WILL be a good day!

DD12 and DD10 are mine from a previous relationship but they call him Dad. DD5 is mine and my WH's. THEN, we have the bouncing baby boy that likes to roll around in my tummy

Dear WH -

I apologize to you for helping to create an environment that made it possible for you to get emotionally involved with someone else. I know now all those things I was lacking in and I understand now how important it was that I meet all your emotional and physical needs. I was not there for you when you needed me most, and I threw negative words out at you. Now we are both suffering for my mistake.

I am willing to avoid the mistakes I've made in the past and create a new life for both of us that meet our needs. But I cannot do that until you end your relationship with Heather once and for all.

The past few weeks have been the most difficult time of my life. I’ve been paralyzed by my fear that you will turn to someone else completely for the things that I know I can give you and my hurt that you would seek out and find someone else instead of me. However, I have the memories of all the wonderful times we have spent together, your awesome qualities that made me fall in love with you and commit to spend the rest of my life with you, and thoughts of us being together again, happily. Unfortunately, those thoughts and feelings are slowly going away as I hurt more and more, knowing that you are turning to Heather for your emotional needs and turning away from me. So, for self preservation, I have to separate myself from you completely.

I ask that you respect my decision to separate from you this way. You have to know the deep pain and humiliation I feel because of your choice of another woman and to not work out our relationship at this time. I simply cannot be in contact with you if I am to preserve any love for you, if I am to avoid poisoning all that we have shared together, and to give our relationship the best chance possible.

I want us to be able to rebuild our marriage someday. I want us to be able to meet each other's emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We need to build a new lifestyle in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there will never again be a reason for us to separate. I want to be your best friend, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you as my best friend. I just cannot help you or be near you as long as you are involved with someone else.

I love you, value you, and support you. I believe in your ability to make the best decision for yourself and our family.

Love,
Ayane


OMG, I cry every time I read that. I would be so darn emotional if someone sent me a letter of that sort. What do you guys think?

I think your letter sounds good. But you did not address who you will have as the intermediary (sp?). Below is the paragraph from the plan B letter in SAA that pertains to this.

"Until then, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. I will also not be able to help you financially. Our friends Jane and Paul have agreed to help make arrangements for you to visit the children whenever you would like. But I will not be here when you visit. If you want to communicate about the children or any other matter, it will have to be through Jane and Paul. "

Also, I was just reading on the Plan B 101 thread about how you should go into Plan while your WS has good thoughts and feelings about you. So I don't know if you should be going into Plan B after having the fights that the two of you have had recently. On the other hand I really don't see what other choice you have if he is acting this, you need to protect yourself and bring some peace to your home.

I wish some posters with more experience would chime in here.

I don't know what else to do to keep my sanity and to stop even more LB'ing. We have spoken today with no fighting, but I think that we are both just emotionally and mentally tired and ready to stop the arguing. Isn't it true though that if you can still make this person so angry there are still feelings there?

My friend tells me to be detached and disinterested with him. That would upset him more than anything.

I'm getting a lot of opposition from my family and friends about Plan B (I sent the letter and there is no getting it back now). They think that I am stupid to even say that I want to rebuild our marriage, that I am looking like a desperate, silly woman. God, I hope not. *sigh* Now, they have made me feel like it, when I felt that the letter was perfect before. At least that way I could say that I didn't give up and I tried my best to work things out. I can say that HE was the one who f'ed up.

Your family and friends are speaking out of their concern and love for you. It is hard for many people to understand why a BS would want to remain married to their WS, that is until they are put into that situation.

I always said I would not tolerate being cheated on. Well all that changed when it meant loosing my little family.

What a lot of people don't see is that people can change. I think your WH will wake up one morning and think what the heck was I thinking. It may or may not be too late at that point.

Everyone likes to say people don't change. But I can say for sure my H and I have both changed a lot in the last year. We have both matured and both see how important our marriage is to us. So it is not true that people don't change. They just have to want it for themselves. What is true is that you cannot change someone else, only yourself.

Well, WH just called (I took the call since he hasn't received the letter yet and won't until tomorrow or Saturday at the latest) and he was pulled over by the cops. LMAO. He had a speeding ticket a year ago that I repeatedly tried to get him to pay. He also has no insurance since it was in my name and I took him off of it. In the state of KY, it's required. So, he could very likely be going to jail. I said well, either you or your dad let me know what happens and hung up.

WH called me back asking me to come pick him up. Apparently his license plates were expired so he wasn't driving anymore tonight. I wonder why he didn't call any of his friends? Oh yeah, because he knows who the people he can count on are and that would be me and his parents. *sigh* He said very, very little as I took him and his friend over to another of his friends. He thanked me, but I could tell he wasn't happy about any of it. Haha, it amuses me, though. Who has his back? NOT the OW, but his horrible, crazy, irrational wife, as usual. I'm sure it bothers him that he has to ask me for stuff like that, especially after the big blowup Tues. and yesterday.

When he gets that letter he won't be able to do stuff like this anymore. I won't even answer my phone.

WH is back. H snuck in a little last night, but now that he's sobered up, H is gone. My WH called last night at 2am wanting to talk and get advice from me about what he could do in this situation. He said that he valued my opinion, blah, blah, blah. He had lots to say. He thanked me profusely for supporting him, being there for him, and continuing to do so. Well, not the WH of this morning! I took him to pick up his car and he didn't talk the whole way there, then he called when he got home (I followed since he asked me to) to say thanks and that was it. Surly little fellow, eh? Oh well, it was nice to see a little of H sneak back in last night. BUT (and you guys should be proud cuz I am) I had NO EXPECTATIONS when he called me and I was completely calm last night and this morning. I'm so proud of myself! He did say last night, "I know that you don't care one way or another about this" and I didn't even respond. He kind of had a .... after saying that as though expecting me to reply, but I just kept quiet. H only seems to come out when he is drinking, so what is the point in saying anything anyway? WH will disregard it come morning.

Your last post reminds me that if you keep working on your side, watching LBs, etc., you're building the best possible chance for him to see the error of his ways. In other words, the better person you are, the better you'll look to him (and everyone else). Plus you'll like yourself better. So slow and steady, eh?

How are you doing physically?

I think you are doing great. I think your WH asking you for help is a big deal. I also think that what he says when he is drinking is a big deal.

I think it is great that your WH is seeing you in a good light before he gets the plan B.

Did you revise the letter to make it clear that you will not be taking his calls and that he needs to make arrangements with an intermediary to see the kids?

I'm doing great, just tired a lot. Thanks so much for asking As of today, I only have 11 weeks to go!!! I've been eating a lot better and gaining weight, yay.

Slow and steady is definitely the way to do it, I just usually have problems with that. However, that is something that would be perfect for me to work on at this time...patience and less impulsiveness.

I do like myself better when I can look back on what I did and said and not feel like perhaps I could have been less crazy or irrational seeming (even if I had reason or really wasn't acting that way except in his head and my head). Calm, cool, and collected is much better.

I've always said that what he says and does when he is drinking and less inhibited (but not totally trashed) means something. Since this started, when he drinks he is kind, sweet, wonderful, very nearly my H of old. It's when he is sober and his brain is working that he is the cold, heartless, lying WH. I don't understand how he can be that sweet person on the inside, but only show this other person on the outside when sober. I also think the reason he was short and cold this morning is because he was thinking too much about what he said and did last night and maybe even regretted it, I don't know. It's no use wondering why, when there is no why, there is only the WH.

Yep, I revised the letter telling him to contact my mom and he can deposit child support directly into my checking account and get a receipt that way. I'm actually kind of excited about Plan B at this moment. I think that he will definitely miss having my support and help especially since the only people he has ever been able to count on are his parents and myself. His friends are mostly p*theads and a little out there anyway. So, he doesn't really have anyone to give him good advice or anything.

I'm excited about Plan B, but nervous also. Especially after all the contact last evening and early this morning. I know that I don't have to hear what he has to say since I don't have to answer the phone, etc, but I'm afraid that he will call my girl's cell phone and attempt to put them in the middle by telling them that he HAS to talk to me, that it's an emergency. He has done that before. I can just imagine that he is going to be angry. Of course, I could be totally wrong and he will be happy to have no contact, but I don't think so. I'm just nervous.

Were any of you guys that way too?

So what is your plan, are you going to keep taking his calls until he calls you and says he got your letter? Keep in mind that although the letter was emotional for you to write, it may make him angry.

What are you going to do if he lies to the kids and says he needs to talk to you and he says it is an emergency?

This is the last day that I am going to be taking his calls. If he calls the girls and says it's an emergency, then there should be no reason why he can't tell them what the emergency is. If he can't tell them, then I won't believe him that it's important. I don't really want to speak with him at all.

He came by tonight to give me child support and to get some video games and such. It was weird having him in here and the girls were so excited (exept DD5, she is sick and slept through it haha). It was just odd when he gave them all hugs and kisses and told them he loved him while I just sat apart. It hurt a little. *sigh* But, I will be okay

I'm kind of having a bad morning. I think I realize that I don't need him anymore, but that doesn't mean that I miss him any less. I miss talking to him about our days and all of that.

I was reading other threads and I wonder if he isn't attracted to me while I'm pregnant. He generally likes curvier women and I was very thin when we got together, and I've gained weight since that time. However, I don't remember him having problems with my pregnant body before. *sigh* I don't know. I just wonder how you can be sexually attracted to someone three weeks before, then POOF you're not anymore.

I have too many thoughts rushing around my head today. I wish I knew if he had received my PBL yet. Of course, I understand that a part of Plan B is NOT to wonder, but right now, I can't help myself.

Just remember, part of the purpose of Plan B is to salvage your marriage if possible. So you have a chance to be where you want to be. Not a guarantee, but a better chance than just sitting back and waiting. So look at it as an action forward.

Thanks, CP, I appreciate the advice .

Having issues with DD12 today. Nothing is ever right and she has to argue and bicker with everyone around, especially DD10. I'm trying to be understanding, but she is so disrespectful and I won't put up with that. Of course, DD12 thinks that she gets in trouble for nothing, because she doesn't think she is being disrespectful. *sigh*

We are planning to go to the beach at the end of this month and currently DD12 is not going because of her disrespectful attitude. She is going to stay here with my WH unless she can show that she can be nicer to everyone. I think that she needs to spend some time with him anyway.

Just spoke with OW xBF who sent me a message that he needed to speak with me ASAP. He said that OW came to see him and was upset because she apparently has an infection from sleeping with my WH. Apparently she thinks it's a yeast infection or whatever (sorry if TMI) but she said specifically that she and my WH had had sex (which I knew but didn't want to know as he kept saying it was only an EA). xBF said he had talked about it with his mom and she said he should tell me as it could hurt the baby. I wouldn't have anything anyway because my WH and I haven't been intimate so....

Should I contact my WH about this? To tell him to get checked out or whatever?

Have you been checked for STD's by your doc? That is vital. Who knows how long the affair has been going on.

You should call your OB and tell them about the possiblity of you having something. It is very humiliating to have to ask your doctor to run tests for STD's when you are married, but I just did it myself. It will give you peace of mind.

As for telling him, well my guess is OW already has. Hopefully, it is just a yeast infection or bladder infection and OW is just so young she is freaked out by it.

The evil side of me is saying "wahahaha" (evil laughter), the OW and your WH brought them on themselves. Hopefully it will make OW think your WH is dirty.

I was tested the last time I went to the doctor, which was about a week ago.

I did end up telling my WH about the conversation (he hasn't received by PBL yet BTW) and of course he is saying that the last person he had sex with was me, whatever. THEN, he says, "isn't it weird to be talking to the xBF of someone who has had relations with your soon to be xH and talking about infections?" He just confirmed what I already knew. And, he sounds so nonchalant about saying he's my soon to be xH, like it's no big deal. That sucked. It's like when I finally have it through my head (mostly) that there is no hope, he throws the hopelessness in my face.

I hope that OW thinks my soon to b xH (as he calls himself) is dirty because he is....a dirty, stinking liar and cheater.

I just want to tell him to disregard my PBL, that I DON'T want to build a better marriage because he will never be a better person. I honestly don't think he will ever change enough to make a good marriage with me or anyone else. I feel like I'm just humiliating myself further when he reads the letter.

I'm sure your real husband will be back. He is infatuated and is like a heroin addict getting his fix right now.

What did you tell OW's bf? I think I might tell him that I'm very concerned because you could have caught whatever COOTIES the OW has. He will be sure to pass that on to her. And then she will start LBing your husband.

Haha I wish I had thought of that! I didn't really tell him anything other than whatever she has if she thinks it came from him, he DIDN'T get it from me because I don't have anything. It doesn't matter if she starts LBing him or not because I've had just about all the LBing FROM him that I can take. I'm ready for Plan B but as of right now, I don't want to work on my marriage or any part of it. I just want to work on me and get him out of my life once and for all. I don't need someone who is a chronic liar and manipulator. I don't need someone who would just up and leave one day and neither do my children. I would just rather raise them alone so they can grow up not having to deal with things like this in their parents.

Only you can decide if it is worth trying to save your marriage. Statistics are way in your favor that hubby will be back.

Maybe if this was the first time it would be okay. He has left twice before for a week at the most and came back without any asking from me. I just don't know if it's going to work or if he's going to want it to anymore.

I texted him saying that I love how nonchalant he is about all of this and that I can't wait until I get there too. I'm sure that getting our child out will do the trick. I also told him that I will drop his mail off at his parents house because there is nothing here that he needs. He wanted to come by tonight to pick up this one piece of mail, but I see no reason for it.

He keeps calling now, but I don't want to talk to him. I was doing fine, but now, not so much. That xH part really got me.

Figure out why he left. Are there insurmountable problems in the marriage, or does he just have issues?

Formulate what it will take for him to come back. It has to be tiring to go through this over and over. So you need some strong boundaries and requirements before you let him waltz back in.

He's the one that had problems. There was nothing in our marriage that couldn't be worked out, at least in my opinion. Well, until this stuff with the OW.

I know what I expect if he is to come back. But, I really don't see that happening. Even if he wanted to, I don't think that he would or could humble himself enough to admit that he was wrong and that is what it's going to take. I don't know. I'm just tired of all of this.

They all seem to proud to want to come back, but they do.

You need to keep reading all of the stuff here, and start getting strong for the boundaries you will have to insist on.

That's what I'm trying to do. It will be much easier when he and I have no contact. His uncaring attitude hurts too much. Like I said, I can't wait til I am there.

He called and DD10 answered the phone, even though I told them not to. He asked me how he was supposed to act and said he wasn't trying to start sh%t with me. I know that he wasn't but he just doesn't get it. Then he said that I sounded pretty nonchalant when I called to tell him what xBF said, but h*ll how was I suppose to sound telling him something like that?

Again, I want to tell him to disregard everything I say in my PBL and just go ahead and sign any D papers if I agree with them. I don't see how this could be turned around. He is going his own way with his life and I'm going mine. I don't know if they merge anymore. I don't like this person that he is even if he likes himself more.

Did you love him and want him before the affair?

Or is his behavior waking you up to the fact that he isn't all that.

I loved him and adored him before all of this. He and my girls were the center of my world. However, the way that he's behaving makes me see that maybe I saw something in him that wasn't really there. His parents have always said that he was a liar and manipulator, but I believed the things he said about them. A big part of me still loves him but it's person that I thought he was. Who wants to love an illusion?

Actions speak louder than words. If he was a good husband and father before this, he can be again. If he has family of origin issues and cheating is his pattern, that will continue too, unless the two of you have some firm boundaries and he goes to counseling.

Actions do speak louder than words and if I took him by his actions then I would KNOW that he is a poop (gotta watch my language haha). The fact that he left the way that he did should have clued me in. And honestly, I don't think he has been a really great husband in years. He's been a wonderful father, but husband? Not really. But, being the glutton for punishment that I am, I accepted it as something that he was going through. I just wanted to "be there" for him. So, perhaps his leaving will be the best thing for everyone. He seems to be going on the right track, going back to school, etc. Things that he wouldn't do while he was here. So, good for him. I just know that I can't be there for him now, I have to be there for myself.

I hate the fact that my emotions go back and forth between yes D is a great idea and no, I want to fight for my M. I've got to get it together and stick to one thing. This back and forth is not good for myself. So, right now, I'm sticking with, D is the best thing for everyone involved unless amazing changes are made.

I sent my WH a message saying that I can't fight for something that isn't there and according to him hasn't been there for a long time, so whatever he wants, D whatever, he can have. I told him that I had convinced myself that he was someone that he wasn't, but now my eyes are open and I can see clearly (I hope). I asked him to please just listen to me and don't call me because there is nothing to discuss. I just had to get all of that off of my chest to make myself feel better.

Of course he calls. He calls my phone repeatedly, then calls my girl's phone, which DD12 answers. He said he was only calling to talk to me and for her to ask me to puh-leeeaaassse (she sounded so cute saying it and said he told her to put that emphasis on it) call him back. But, I can't. I said what I had to say. I CAN'T fight for something that isn't there, I can only work on rebuilding my life without him in. Whatever happens, happens, but I'm not going to humiliate myself to him anymore.

Ayane - And what plan are you in?

LOL was going into Plan B, but he hasn't received my letter yet.

*sigh* I've been okay lately, but something triggered me and I'm an emotional f'ing wreck! I don't want to be like this.

I've been reading your posts - I felt the urge to chime in and also tell you to stay strong.

We're almost 5 months to the day after my FWW laid next to me in our bed and told me she loved the OM and no longer loved me or wanted to be with me.

Two days ago, lying in the same bed, she told me that "you are 10 times the man he is." Maybe she's still lying, but at least I feel a bit better now about our "bedtime conversations". Hang in there , we're all pulling for you! I'd never heard of "fog-speak" before, but I sure know what it sounds like now...

Thank you, Steveb, that does make me feel better. I'm glad that things are working well for you and I hope that they continue to do so. Fog speak is crazy, yeah. It makes me wonder if that is really what it is. I guess only time will tell....

WH should be reading my PBL letter any time now. I don't think that absence will make the heart grow fonder in regards to us but I can't do the whole talking a gazillion times a day about mundane crap anymore. I can't be just his friend right now. Things are too fresh. I think if I give myself a couple of months then yeah, maybe I can try, but not right now.

This is hard because I have so many things that I want to say, but I know that it's pointless to say them. I wish I could just turn off my brain sometimes like I can turn off the tv. My thoughts are just endless and most of the time I can't even sleep because of them. *sigh*

Hang in there. I completely understand the not being able to turn off your brain thing. I just took a Xanax and am hoping it will kick in soon so I can sleep. When I was where you are I relied on a glass of red wine to get me to sleep each night. That and snuggling with my little girl. I know you are pregnant so the wine is out, but really snuggling with my little helped slow the thoughts in my brain enough to at least fall asleep.

I agree with the others, I think your WH is going to come to his senses and want you back. And just so you know, I never thought my H would change like he has. It is almost funny now because it seems like he has become such a great husband and dad and I am the one who seems to be slipping.

Try to rest and talk to your OB about what is going on, maybe he will have some suggestions to help you rest.

Also, individual counseling is helping me alot, my H has been suggesting it to me for months and I resisted it saying that my problems were due to what has happened in our marriage and that if any more counseling was needed it was marriage counseling. I finally realized that I am married to a smart man and took his advice and the individual counseling is great. You might want to try it, it is really nice to talk to someone who is not a family member or friend, but is there to help you succeed in life.

I can feel the xanax kicking in, so off to bed for me.

You hang in there! No matter what happens you are strong and will always have your kids. Even when they are being obnoxious teenagers you know they will always love you.

Ok, first day of Plan B. Anyone notice how much you want to do something when you decide that you can't? I woke up this morning wanting to talk to my WH....ugh. Well, I guess I woke up this morning wanting to talk to my H, NOT WH. Then I start thinking and get terrified that he will find someone else to talk to (we were talking throughout the day) instead of me. But, I know that I have to detach with love and let go. He needs to see what life is like without me in it and I need to see what I can accomplish on my own.

It's scary though.

I haven't talked to my WH all day and it's weird. I do miss speaking with him *sigh*.


How do I get through these first few days of no contact?

I;m changing my phone numbers in the morning. If he can get on myspace and contact the OW, he can email me to let me know when he wants to see the girls.

You're doing great. I wish it was easier, but think of it as tough love, the only way to wean him off the drugs. Make sure you're taking care of yourself!

When in plan B you are supposed to have a person who handles the contact. Maybe his mom, since you get along good with her? He can tell her when he needs to contact the kids and she can call you. Or if you can't trust her not to give him your new number make someone else the contact person.

Hang in there.

He's called three times today and I haven't answered the phone. I also happened to see him when I was driving and he waved, all nonchalant and made a weird face (not at me but because of my non wave). It's very weird. When he called today, I know he was wanting to tell me about his school stuff (he had orientation and stuff today), but he needs to see that he can't come calling and telling me about his day if he is involved with someone else. *sigh* It's hard though. I WANT to know about his day and stuff like that. Oh well.

Other than that, pretty good day at work. Thank God for anti depressants!!!! I'm lonely though. I wish I had someone to talk to all the time and to go out with. My friends are married and have their own lives. I think having someone to do things with would help so much.

Just try to keep busy doing fun things with your girls. I meet other bored moms all the time when I take my daughter to her activities like the skating rink or the discovery museum. With three girls I'm sure you can keep busy. Learn to master the art of self distraction. I find that just being out of the house and away from my computer distracts me and I don't obsess over my thoughts as much.

He wants to talk to me about kids and stuff, but all I want to say first is; "Have you broken all ties with Heather?" then I will talk with him if he says yes. However, I don't think this will go over very well, so it's better if we don't speak.

DD12 has a choir concert tonight. I have a headache so bad and I just want to sleep! But, I can't miss it and if she does she gets a 0 for a grade. *sigh* DD5 is going to stay with my WH while we are at the concert. I told him that I DO NOT want to see him when I drop her off and pick her up.

I really hope you will stay very dark. An intermediary would be better, but if you must exchange kids and he tries to engage you in conversation, just refer him to your Plan B letter. Don't give him an Ayane fix.

Ayane,

1. Read the ideas on the Goddess thread. (you have to weed through some of the responses that don't necessarily belong on that thread)

2. Make a list of the ones that resonate with you.

3. Make a committment to do at least one of them a day for YOUR personal well-being.

I was directed to that site and it inspired me to remember what it takes to take care of me. That's what you need right now. No more worrying about him, do it one day at a time for you and build your strength.

((hugs))

Wow, I;m having a really bad time right now. I went to his parents to drop off clothing for DD5 (she is staying the night) and had DD10 and DD12 go in to give him the stuff. He comes out and wants to talk, but I kept my window up. He still says that the kids shouldn't be involved and that the OW had nothing to do with why our marriage is over. He made sure to say very loudly that it had nothing to do with her. of course, all of this upset me badly. I stupidly sent him a voicemail telling him that I sent that letter and asked him to stay out of my life for a reason. That there is nothing he can say to make things better so please stay away from me. I asked if he could show me that respect at least since he hasn't shown me any others. And of course that is the one that he will give me, the one that I want the least.

*sigh* I'm still very, very upset. I can't stop crying.

Ayane:

I think that's more fog babble.

My H and OW both have argued that she was not a part of our problem. My H said she was innocent and he had chased after her and kept the A going after she tried to break it off in July.
Then she claimed to be an innocent party who was pursued and was only human and lonely and that's why she kept the A going.
This is from two people who met on a sex site advertising for an intimate encounter (with no ties). I don't think they followed their own requests but both are completely responsible and OW was no innocent!!

Stay strong. You are following your plan in order to snap him out of his stupor. It's up to him now to come around.
As for your kids, I have always found honesty to be the best policy. You don't have to give them super details but kids are smart and they know something is wrong. You don't want them to think they did something wrong to cause this. My kids all know about their father's infidelity. DS13 tried to blame me for Dad leaving because he saw me crying and thought Dad got mad at me. I explained that Dad left because he has become confused with what he wants and being with me is not what he wants right now. My son asked if he had a girlfriend. gee..was he smart or what??

Thanks, H_a. Kids are very receptive to things, that's for sure. It's funny though that he wants to keep DD5 tonight, but didn't even ask about DD10 and DD12. I guess he wants to separate himself from them also. They aren't his biological children, but he has raised them the past 7 years. That hurts also. Of course, they don't want to stay with him, but he could have at least offered.

Get an intermediary. You need to be doing a DARK Plan B, not one where you see him, he babbles about the OW, and you spend the evening crying............

Yeah I called my FIL to see if he and MIL could be the intermediary for visitation, dropoff, pick up, etc. If they can't hopefully I will be able to find someone who will. They are the intermediary if I need to let him know something about the girls.

What sick pleasure does he get out of calling me, wanting to talk about his day, talking about random bullsh*t, or just starting an argument? I don't get it. Especially when I specifically ask him not to. Why do waywards do this sort of thing? What kind of weird EN does this fulfill?

Most waywards attempt contact after a Plan B letter. You see, he is getting some needs met by you, and some by the OW. Everytime you let him have a fix of you, you are helping out the OW. You must go DARK and let HER meet all of his needs.

And a dark Plan B will also preserve your love for him. If you keep having contact, one day, OVERNIGHT, you may wake up and not love him at all. And once it is gone, you won't feel like trying to work to get it back.

Couldn't that happen either way? Right now, I WANT to wake up and not love him anymore. I want to be able to go on my merry little way and not feel like my heart is being twisted every which way. Is this a natural, normal feeling for a BS to have?

"He still says that the kids shouldn't be involved and that the OW had nothing to do with why our marriage is over."

Ayanne, This is classic fog babble. I bet it would be a challenge to find a wayward that has not said that. Mine certainly said it.

You really do not need to hear this and he will continue to say things without regard for your feeling as long as he has contact with the OW. You must stand strong and refuse to put yourself in a position to hear him. Do not speak to him until there is no contact and the fog begins to lift.

I think it is a completely normal feeling. I know I even tried to convince a few others that I was done with my H when he was wayard. It made me feel better, like I had some control, if I was saying I was done, it was like if I made that choice then I was not at his mercy. Know what I mean?

It is completely normal to feel like just getting over it.

You will have some days where you feel like you want him back, and some where you DON'T. But protect your heart with a dark Plan B.

That is it EXACTLY. It does make me feel as though I have control of the situation. Haha though we have our differences, most people are quite a bit alike aren't they?

Your right. I hope that my FIL will be the intermediary. I don't want another night like this. You guys have made me feel better though, thank you.

[quote= but didn't even ask about DD10 and DD12. I guess he wants to separate himself from them also. They aren't his biological children, but he has raised them the past 7 years. That hurts also. Of course, they don't want to stay with him, but he could have at least offered. [/quote]


**I know what you mean. My H raised my 2 older sons from my first M, and he was the only "real" dad they ever knew but now they are grown and out on their own, he isn't even considering them in all this. It was fine to be their dad when they were small but he's still their dad now and can not turn his back on that. At Christmastime when I first discovered the A, DS24 was crying to me about 'why would Dad ruin our family?' The grown ones are just as hurt as the younger ones and he hasn't thought much of this small detail. I believe it hurts the older kids more and makes them question their own lives because they always used Dad as an example of what a good man was, and now this image is destroyed.

>>>>> Also on the subject of FOG BABBLE...

My H says to me last week that I shouldn't tell our business (ie: expose the affair) to our friends because this will 'come back and injure the kid's reputations'. Yes, he said that if people know of his infidelity they will hold it against our children and affect their reputations. I wonder how??

Fog babble is a crazy, crazy thing. I just hope that too many ugly things haven't been said during this time to rule out reconciliation. We've both said some nasty things to one another and I, for one, don't know if I can forget some of them.

On the topic of telling children - how young is too young? I asked that on another thread here also. Should I say something to DD5? I haven't because of her age. But, she knows that something is wrong and that mommy and daddy don't live together anymore and she spends time with daddy without her sisters or her mom, so it's weird for her.

Everyone keeps saying you should. If they're that young, you can just say something like "Daddy wanted to be with another lady instead of mommy."

Your WH does not want to expose because he doesn't want to look bad, he is using the kids as a way to pull at your heart and try to get his way. HE doesn't want everyone to know he is acting like a total scum and fooling around with a 19 year old while his wife is pregnant.

As for telling your 5 year old. I don't know if she is old enough to get it. I have read that you should tell the kids and tell them that it is wrong, so they learn that it is wrong instead of you acting like it is okay, which would teach them that this behavior is okay. My daughter was 5 when my H and I went through our crap and she really didn't understand what was going on.

You can open up the conversation with your 5 year old by getting her alone for a one-on-one trip somewhere such as to McDonalds for a sundae. Then just tell her that the things going on between Mommy and Daddy have nothing to do with her, not the way she's behaved or acted. Tell her Daddy is confused and wants to get to know the other lady. Adults are crazy people sometimes and it's hard for kids to understand. (My DS agreed with this one 100%). You don't even have to blame your H. Just be firm that these changes are not going to end her relationship with either you or your WS.
You must be positive and be firm in your message that both Mommy and Daddy still love her and her sisters very much!
If children are left to try to figure things out on their own, they almost always will find a way to blame themselves for what's going on and that can be a destructive influence that can stay with them all their lives. Such as: "If I was good all the time, Mommy and Daddy would still be together".

~From a person who is very good at guilt thanks to my Mother and the messages she sent in my youth!

That is true. He knows that the kids are my heart and that by saying anything about them he can get to me. This is so confusing and so hard! I want to be able to talk to him daily and it makes me sad to be in Plan B because I feel like we should be talking all the time. BUT, I understand the concept of Plan B and hope that it will make a difference. I don't know. I don't know if there will ever be reconciliation and recovery. Some days I have hope, others I don't.

My WH dropped DD5 off today and didn't attempt to see or speak to myself of DD10 and DD12 or even his dog, who ran out to see him before we could catch her. He drove off quickly, though DD12 ran out to see if he wanted to stay a second to see the dog. He forgot to put DD5's toothbrush in her bag, so I emailed the in laws to see when they would be home so that I could pick it up. At least I don't have to worry about any hurtful things being said. I don't think he is going to like Plan B at all.

"didn't attempt to see or speak to myself of DD10 and DD12 or even his dog"

FINALLY, a dark Plan B. He didn't even attempt to talk to the DOG!!!!!

That is priceless, Ayane. You are doing fine.

LOL this made me laugh. No contact between my WH and myself today at all. I did speak with my MIL for about an hour today. We spoke a little about what is going on and more about mundane things. She said that last night he was very somber and sad for the rest of the night after I left him the message to not contact me at all. She also asked him why, if he wanted to start a new life, etc, etc, did he contact me several times a day just to talk about everyday stuff and he couldn't give her an answer. She said he seems....confused, upset, hurt. I hope he does feel all of those then he can maybe feel a measure of my emotions. MIL did say that she got tears in her eyes last night when DD5 asked my WH, "why don't you live at home with Momma and us anymore?". She said it was pitiful. Oh well.

I had a pretty good day though. Things were busy at work and I will probably be working more since a guy quit today with no notice.

You are doing fine, but don't ask your MIL about him. Ask her about her garden, her childhood, WHATEVER, but not about him. He is supposed to be OUT OF YOUR MIND.

Yeah, supposed to be. I did not ask her though, she started the conversation....I just listened and broke in sometimes LOL. But, I see what you are saying. I know that he is suppose to be out of my mind and eventually he will be. I probably shouldn't even stop by there to talk to her because the conversation always comes to that. So....yeah.

Just tell her that it is too hurtful to you to hear about her son.

I was very close friends with my SIL. We did everything together. After the affair I let her know that I didn't want to talk about her brother. I didn't want to hear about him and OW, and I didn't want to bash him to her.

But the affair took its toll. I haven't seen her for 4 years.

I'm sorry about that B. It had to be tough for both of you.

What kind of boundries have others decided upon? I'm trying to decide how many is too many and what are good ones.

One thing that his mom did tell me is that he said he was ready to let go. That hurt because I thought he already had. Anyway, she says she doesn't believe that he is. She said he wants to call me over trivial, stupid stuff that he doesn't need to call anyone about. At least I know I'm not the only one who looks for reasons to hear his voice. I keep remembering what you told me believer....actions speak louder than words. He says he's ready to let go, but he continues to try to find reasons to call or talk to me. He says that he's done, but he continues to find reasons to try to come by our house. His actions say that he isn't done. But, I don't want to hope. I just want to be still....

When will this stop being the first thing I think of when I wake up in the morning? I even dream about it. I feel like I'm ready to move on and I don't want to think about it, but it's so difficult. *sigh*

Still doing well with the no contact (even though it's only been a few days), but I feel like I'M going through withdrawal. I prayed for a long time today the fell asleep. I slept so heavily that I didn't hear the phone rang and it was very near. I dreamed of the OW and my WH and just kind of letting go. I woke up feeling empty....in a good way. I had prayed about letting go of the bitterness and anger that I have inside of me...not just from this, but from other things that have happened in my life. When I awoke....I felt better, I felt free and empty like I said. I asked God to cut out the roots of past pain and hurt....and I feel that he did. Of course, things won't happen overnight, but I feel better.

Also, I checked my email when I woke up and my WH's grandmother had emailed me to tell me that he had called her....for the first time since all of this happened. She is such a strong christian woman and thinks that I need to let go and let God, as she says. I don't know what God is trying to tell me....if he is trying to tell me anything. I don't want to try to find false hope in anything, so I'm not. I just feel....good.

Ayane, have you ever tried yoga? I think it would be a great help for you right now.

I used to do yoga quite a bit when i worked a third shift job. There was a yoga show that came on at 5:30a and I would exercise right along with it. It was great. My children do yoga...I just haven't in a long time.


WH called and left a voicemail to let me know that he was going to keep the kids this weekend. He said that I could just talk to him since it was cheaper for him (he has a prepaid cell phone now) instead texting or whatever. He said he would be spending the money for child support on getting minutes!!! I was like...WHAT? I don't have to talk to him to get these things set up, he can talk to the girls or we can go through his parents. *sigh*

WH called and left a voicemail since I didn't pick up the phone. He was talking about something that I had written to him previously, about a happy memory that I had of us. He said that it wasn't a happy memory to him anymore because we were so innocent then (it was before we married) and we had the chance to make something wonderful and we messed it up by hurting each other. He said that he it couldn't be a happy memory to him anymore because he didn't feel that way about me any longer. Then he said he can't wait for the day that I can talk to him no matter who he is affliated with.

WHY? Why would he say something so incrediably hurtful to me? What kind of thought process is he using? I just don't understand. I'm sorry that we both did hurtful things to one another, but that doesn't mean that our marriage isn't salvagable. *sigh*

Sorry for the multiple posts and bad spelling BTW. I'm terribly upset right now.

THEN he calls back and says that I shouldn't think that things are cut and dried and easy for him either. But, that this is the best thing for everyone involved. He wants to talk in person or on the phone. He says that who he associates with shouldn't matter since we will be in each other's lives for the rest of our lives.

Of course, it DOES matter who associates with since this is someone that he has chosen over our family. *sigh* WTH is he thinking? Really? I just can't imagine.

"He says that who he associates with shouldn't matter since we will be in each other's lives for the rest of our lives."

It sounds like he is trying to bagain with you. This is typical for waywards. It sounds like he doesn't like Plan B and is trying to bargain a way to end it and be able to have you as his friend.

He's been trying to get me to talk to him every day. However, if how I felt last night is how I'm going to feel when we talk, then it's obvious that I can't. What he said was so hurtful and mean. I just don't understand someone not wanting to work on their marriage. I've been out of love with him before and wanted to leave....but I didn't. I stuck it out and fell back in love with him. *sigh* I don't want to talk to him because it just makes me feel terrible that he can turn our sweet memories around and make them bad.

There is one thing that has been bothering me lately almost more than anything else. How do I get over this need I have to be affectionate, to be touched by another adult? I really miss hugging and cuddling and SF. It's becoming harder everyday. I know that my WH hasn't seen the OW in almost two weeks, but that doesn't mean he hasn't spoken to her or been with someone else. Who knows with him. But, I can't just turn to some random person. Not only for the fact of STD's, but there are other things. It just wouldn't feel right. *sigh*

I would not listen to his messages. When you hear his voice, delete them. Or better yet, leave the answering machine OFF and don't answer the phone.

Try a long body pillow to hug. I know how lonely it can get.

It's so very lonely. I wish I could be like him and just go out and look for someone, but that wouldn't make me happy in the long run, I would just feel worse. *sigh* I also wish I had more patience, because this waiting things out is getting to me. I want to know whats going on now, either way, but I know that waiting is better. It gives us both time. But, it's so hard.

It also hurts to know that my WH doesn't want me sexually anymore or in any other way. It kills my spirit and my heart. How can you go from loving and wanting someone all the time to it not being an option?

This is the major point of Plan B: protecting you from the horrible pain that occurs when you are in contact with your actively wayward husband. You must not be in contact with him or it will hurt you. Don't listen to anything he says, literally.

And don't waste your time trying to figure out why he says things that don't make any sense to you. He wants to get his fix of you and he's trying to convince you to provide that. Don't give in. It won't help you recover your marriage.

I know what you mean about feeling lonely and the need for physical touch. I recommend getting your hair shampooed at a salon and/or a massage. Do not seek out another person for physical intimacy.

Yeah I don't plan to go find someone. I just don't understand why he hasn't filed for divorce yet if that is what he wants so badly. If it is, I'm sure he could get the money from his parents. I know that the OW's parents will kick her out and all that if she has contact with him but he doesn't seem to to care and he still doesn't want to be home or with ME. That hurts so badly. He just really thinks our marriage is not fixable and that I don't do it for him anymore and that is that. I just don't get it.

I keep wanting to think that it's fog babble, but my heart says NO, that he really means it and it's over for good this time. There is no going back. It really, really sucks.

Why do wayward spouses not divorce their husbands or wives when they separate or leave for the other person? Why do they keep them hanging on?

I spoke with my MIL tonight and we talked about my WH a little and I said that he kept saying that he wants a divorce. She said, Ayane (of course not my real name) if he wanted one so badly, he would have already saved his money and filed. That really made me think. Why hasn't he filed already? When she told him the other night that I had spoken with a lawyer, she said he almost had a mini freak out. Ugh, I just don't get it. She seems to think that there isn't going to be any divorce, but that could just be her wishful thinking, I don't know. She says that he spews a lot of crap, but he's not doing anything about it, so if he wanted away from the marriage so badly, he would have already filed and wanted nothing to do with me. She says this no contact thing is killing him....haha

And believer, LOL, I know, I know. I shouldn't be talking to my MIL about all this while in Plan B. It's hard when she brings it up though!

Ayanne,

Be careful talking to your MIL. She is telling you how your WH is acting, so you should assume that she is telling him what you are saying and how you are acting. Remember, no matter how much she loves you, he is still her little boy, even when he is being a total jerk she will still love him. Be careful not to tell her about MB and your plans. If your WH was to read your posts on here right now his wayward mind would twist everything you have written. He probably would not see how much his wife loves him and how much she is fighting for her marriage, but he would probably twist it into you playing games. Just like he twisted your happy memories into something bad.

Hang in there. Do you have any friends that can support you? I know just hanging out with my sister and brother was a tremendous help for me during my difficult times.

Actually he is her stepson, so there really isn't any maternal instincts for her there. She never had any children and she is more of an animal lover actually LOL. She loves him but he isn't her biological son so she feels a little differently, at least that is how she puts it.

But, you are correct. I do need to to watch myself. I don't know what to do. I have friends, but I'm sure they are tired of hearing me talk about the same thing all the time. I have one sibling, but she is only 12 and lives in TN anyway, as do all my family members. So, basically all I have here are a couple friends, my WH, my in laws, and the computer. It really sucks. He has many more friends than I have because I was so leery of making new friends after he had an affair three years ago with someone that I considered my best friend. I don't know. *sigh*

I still want to know why WS's don't divorce the BS right off the bat. Is it because they want to cake eat?

Oh and my WH texted me to tell me that sex with me isn't an option and that he isn't having sex with anyone else, but he doesn't want me at all. I don't get it?

I don't know about the divorce issue, my H filed divorce right away when he left.

Reading about your WH's past affair with your best friend and now another affair, I'm so sorry, but from what you have said about him I am wondering why you want to stay with him.

You have mentioned all his friends are pot heads, it sounds like he doesn't have a job, and he cheated on you with your best friend, and now with a 19 year old.

Have you considered going to individual counseling to help you heal and work on yourself. I have been going for about a month now and it really has helped me. It's also nice just to know you have a scheduled time to go and cry and deal with all the crap.

When I think about all the things that have happened, I don't know why I want to be with him. Other than the fact that, from the beginning it felt like he was my other half and he felt the same way. Of course, he says that he doesn't now. I don't know CLIG, I go back and forth between thinking that we could work this out and thinking that I would be better off without him. I don't know if it's just that I have attached myself to him so deeply and now my pride along with my heart is hurting, so I don't want to let go. I have no idea.

He does have a job, just not a great one. He just needs to grow up and act like a man. *sigh* That is what I get for marrying someone younger than me I suppose. Who knows?

I've gone to one session of individual counseling. I need to go to more. She wants to help me get through the stages of grief because something like this is like a death.

I had an epiphany!!

I was sitting here thinking about things and all of sudden everything came together in my head. I'm OKAY, really, truly okay. I mean, I'm still going to have my good days and bad days, but I'm already stronger and doing okay and will only get better.

I really had forgotten what a strong fabulous person I really am. It's been a very long time since I've actually realized that. My friends have tried to tell me (my best friend tells me that when she thinks of me, she thinks of my name in huge, glittery letters with an exclamation point because I'm such a vital person) but I haven't believed them. So, I guess in a way I have to thank my crazy WH for me finding myself again. I lost someone who doesn't love me and can't see me how I really am and I've gained someone even better - myself!

I've been fighting this whole thing because of my pride and because of my children AND because I kept hoping that I would see the man I married and commited my life to, instead of a stranger looking at me out of familiar eyes. However, this stranger isn't WORTH my time, my heartache, my emotions. He is someone that I don't know and why should I even care what he does? My children will even be better off without this person if that is who he continues to be. I just know that I can't go back and wouldn't go back to the way that it was. My kids and I DESERVE so much more!

I thought that my hurt would last for months and months and years. Of course, I'm still going to have times where my heart breaks all over again, but I have to remember how I feel and what I know right now. I'M OKAY, MY KIDS ARE OKAY, and we will be the ones who come out ahead in this. *sigh* Don't let me forget it

Really glad to hear it, Ayane. Best of luck.

Thanks, CP, I appreciate it. Hopefully, this feeling of contentment will last.

Ayane, stay busy. There will be lots of ups and downs, but do things that will increase your satisfaction and self-esteem, no matter how things are going with hubby.

I'm definitely trying to do that. I've just been so tired lately. I was so stressed and barely sleeping for so long, that now I think my body is worn down and I'm constantly tired! I do feel less stressed though and that is nice.

Things aren't going to go well with my WH until he realizes that everything I say isn't to break his spirit or hurt him because I'm hurt. Who knows when that will be. Leave it to him to make himself out to be the victim. He's been doing that for years.

Of course you are tired. Who wouldn't be? This stuff is draining as it is, and you have 3 kids and one on the way.

Do your kids have chores and help around the house? That is what I would concentrate on. Get your home warm and welcoming, get it organized, get everyone pitching in. You will be even more tired when baby comes.

Put thoughts of hubby on the back burner. Remember, he will start treating OW the same way. The affair will end, and then he will want to come back. In the meantime, work on the little things.

Took my daughters out to dinner and DD12 made sure to tell me that the OW called while they were at the house. *sigh* I don't want to know these things.

Ayane, your D12 is old enough to understand that. Be careful of parentifying them, but you can tell her it's painful for you to hear about the OW. She'll get it.

Are you exercising? It's a good natural way to feel better when you're pregnant.

While cleaning out around the house today, I came across a card from Valentine's Day of this year. Talk about a trigger! I cried and sobbed....*sigh* it was pitiful. It's amazing how things change in just a few months time. We seemed so happy then...at least I thought we were. He hadn't started that job...the one where he met the OW, so he didn't even know her. Today is just a blah day.

So sorry you saw that. I packed all of that stuff away. It was just too painful to look at. Just a couple weeks before the affair started, my hubby had written me a long love letter.

The affair changed all of that.

Found out today that my WH is now hanging out as "friends" with the person that he cheated on me with before.

I've also decided to move back to my hometown, about 350 miles away. I need to be away from all of this so that every time I start to feel good about myself, he doesn't do something to prove to me just how worthless he thinks I am. I just want to be far, far away from all of this.

I'm sorry that you are hurting. But, do you really think moving is the right thing to do? That is a long way away and would make it very hard for your children to see their dad. It would be almost impossible for your unborn son to ever bond with his dad. What about your oldest two, is there dad around?

The oldest two....their dad lives where I would be moving so they would be able to see him a lot. Honestly, with the youngest, I don't think my WH even cares if they bond with him or not. At least right now. He will regret it later, I'm sure, but now he doesn't care.

Last night he spoke with his dad and when FIL mentioned that he (WH) had gotten what he wanted since we were moving, WH replied, "whatever, we'll see." He really doesn't think that we will go and I think that will be the best thing. He needs to know that I'm getting on with my life and not waiting around for him. Right now he thinks, oh she is just down the street and not seeing anyone because she wants to save the marriage. Well, right now, HE'S wrong. I think too much has happened for the relationship to be saved now. I just want to be happy again and not have to worry about feeling disrespected at every turn.

You need to get a PLAN. And then you need to stick to it.

You are thrashing around like a fish out of water. Time to realize your worth as a woman and act instead of reacting.

I am in full fledged, dark Plan B now and I plan on staying there.

Depression has set in. Even my best friend is disgusted with my thought process and actions. I can't say that I blame her.

I've read most of the posts in this thread. Boy can I relate to all of this as I'm sure most can. I kept thinking while reading that one thing I've noticed with my H, is when I started moving on, or NOT so easily accessiable (spelling) he started to take notice. He has left came back, almost left, but always came back weather I wanted it or not. The last time he left, (wasn't for very long, hard to know if we even break up, I guess depends what HE is doing on that day) when he was depressed and wanted to come back (talked via MSN, no phone or seeing and that was for Need to stuff) and I said NO, and held my ground, it really messed him up bad. He told friends of ours that he just didn't understand, I always let him come back when he wanted, they had not seen him like that before. I got bullied into it, got the usual lines, and again, he wanted to leave (his guilt because I found out about his affair with his ex wife) When we start working on ourselves, NOT running to there every whim, and they see the growth in us, that we are moving on, they don't like that. Give lots of thought, (but not into the crazies, you've been there enough) make sure that it is not rash decision. What I am going to start to do again, and continue on with, is working on me, growth in me, so it won't matter if we are together or not, I have to live with me, therefore, I better like living with me. Also, your pregnant, extra emotions.

Sounds like your husband actually cares about you. Mine DOES NOT.

Unfortunately, I seem to be a glutton for punishment and pick extremely unstable men or something. OW knows that he hasn't filed for D so he is all gung ho about doing it. He knows that we are moving, but doesn't care. He won't be able to see and bond with his children because he has a POS car so he is giving up everything that he cared about JUST SO HE CAN GET ME OUT OF HIS LIFE. That is how much he despises me. It's really sad.

If your H has abusive tendencies, sometimes it isn't even about what he wants or feels, as much as it's about winning. My D17 dated an abusive guy last summer, she broke up with him cos he was constantly being the victim, blaming everything on her - typical abuse crap (if you wouldn't make me so mad I wouldn't have to yell at you) - and 9 months later, he's still harassing her at school cos she's the one who left him, calling her a sl*t to everyone, that kind of thing. He got drunk the other night and called her at 1am, to say 'if I apologize can we be friends?' She said maybe, and then he proceeds into explaining - again - why all of their problems were her fault!

He just can't help himself, no matter what he wants, and he obviously still likes her, he can't stop being a jerk cos it's his defense mechanism to blame everything on someone else and come out looking like the one everyone should feel sorry for, even if it sabotages what he really wants.

Not saying your H is doing that, but it's a possibility.

Well that part sounds like him anyway. He always has an excuse for everything and it's never his fault. I don't know.

Plan B is going well however.

I've had extreme depression since last night. At one point I even wished I would die while having this baby. *sigh* My best friend is extremely pissed at me because of the depression and what she calls negativity. It's not like I want to feel this way. I would love to want out as much as he does. Last night he left a voicemail saying that when we got the stimulus check he was using his part to pay for a divorce. *sigh* Yeah, that caused the sudden onset of sadness. I slept pretty much all day, didn't answer any phone calls, didn't want to talk with anyone. But, at least that meant I didn't have to talk to my WH or see him. I wish it could be as easy for me as it is for him.

On a good note, the county attorney called me today because my WH is supposed to go up there and sign all the paperwork for child support. So, that is good. I still haven't talked to or seen my WH or his family members, other than my daughter. It sucks and it's really hard. I have to drive by their house on my way to and from work. *sigh*

At least today I'm not as depressed as I was yesterday. I feel a little better, but the smallest thing gets me thinking. Also, I'm leaving for the beach tomorrow, so at least I will have some fun in the sun

FWS - How did you get through the times when you were separated from your BS? Did it hurt or bother you at all or were you too deep in the fog? Did you miss your children and did that make you want to come home or was the thought of the OP more than enough to make up for wanting to be there with them?

Yeah, I'm quadruple posting now, sorry. But, I spoke with my MIL today. She said that she kind of got into it with my WH. She was talking to him about the kids, whatever, and he said that he couldn't be in this kind of relationship with me no matter how much he loved the kids. She said that she wasn't telling him to stay in the relationship because of the kids (which is a damn good reason to me), but once we move, he will have limited contact with them, and she is seeing no remorse from him at all. He said that he felt bad everyday especially when he was around his friends who have kids (which surprised me as I'm not aware that he has any friends with kids). *sigh* I just don't understand why, if he really felt that he couldn't be in a relationship with me months ago, why didn't he tell me? Why did he get me pregnant, watch me lose that child, then get me pregnant again if he didn't want another child and didn't love me then (which is what he said). WS's are so weird. Seriously.

a FULL FLEDGED Plan B is one that does not include obsessing about the dumbasswaywardjackassortheskankylowlifebottomfeederotherskankywoman

and REAL Plan B includes some damn FUN
and some damn self soothing
and some damn time with crazy-lady-girlfriends

not to mention salty fried foods ! (unless one is preggers - then no salt for you)

a full-monty-plan-B is turning your back on the waywardcrackheads who are dragging you down

Start doing uplifting and soul building things - leave the pigs in their own sloppymud and step away

Right now - call the silliest of your friends and make a date to do some fun things

invite all your friends over for a poker party/cupcake decorating feast - it does not matter what you do but stop obsessing - it is a waste of time

a complete and utter waste of your resources

are you ready for some Plan B nonsense?

MAKE IT YOUR PLAN B ---- YOURS ---- OWN IT

when your heart is breaking put on a silly hat and take charge of your life

Pep

AMEN PEP!!!!


And no peeking into the WS life.

It's dark on your side


both ways!!!


You don't look at him, and he doesn't get a peek at you.


Don't ask MIL or anyone else about him.

Don't let your friends talk to you about him. Tell them "I need some time away from thinking about him. I need to spare my love and heart, and the only way to do that is to remain free from thoughts and words of him. Please, respect my wishes, don't tell me about his life or happenings about him. I need to be able to do this so that if we decide to reconcile, we can do it the right way."

Don't look for things to ponder about him.


DO:
Take the time to work on things that make you fulfilled.
Take the time to work on things that build your inner strength.
Take the time to find NEW THINGS in your life that energize YOU - things you never tried before that you always thought you might like to do.

Go forth, try something different.


Rest, and take care of the one thing that you do control in this whole situation - YOURSELF.

You will find that you will grow and grow (besides the belly!), and you will become happier when you focus on what YOU NEED.

And focus on what makes YOU HAPPY.

Pep is right. She knows stuff - listen to her.

And search some of the old threads Pep posted to. Some of them are funny, so they are good for a few laughs to get you started. She always seems to find the party!!!!


SB

Easier said than done, but I'm trying. I'm doing better than I was three or four weeks ago, even two weeks. I'm attempting to put my WH on the backburner and not let his words of contempt/disrespect/unlove hurt me. It's getting a little easier. Haha, I will try the silly hat thing though, that sounds like fun!

Heading out to the beach tomorrow and I'm excited about that. Still planning on moving, but I have this little voice in the back of my head (not to mention my kids whining) that maybe I should wait. NOT because my marriage might be saved, but because I like it here and I would be taking my kids away from all that is familiar. I don't know. I feel that it would be easier if I moved away, at least for me and Plan B. I wouldn't have to drive by his parents house on my way to work or to the doctor and see that his car is there or not. I wouldn't have to think that maybe he went to visit the OW an hour away when I couldn't get him to even go out to eat with us. *sigh* Okay, enough.

What do you guys think about moving? I want honest answers people!

Also, why hasn't my WH taken me off of his myspace page as his number one friend when he is on there everyday? He also hasn't taken my picture from his album....that one that called me his goddess. Blah, yeah, yeah, I shouldn't be wondering these things, but I do. I would think he would want to take those things off immediately.

My vote?

I get a vote?

I'm honored to vote on this issue -

Should you MOVE kit'n'kaboodle to a new house?

I would be moving 350 miles away back to my family in TN. Do you still think that this is a good idea? I really want to know others opinions and reasoning on this.

Also, speak of the devil, WH just called and spoke with the kiddos. He wanted to speak with me, but I didn't talk with him. He is back in school and wants one of our pc's, which I have no problem with (of course I'll give him the oldest and crappiest one haha). However, I will drop it off on MY time at his parents house when he isn't around. Blah, I hate that things have come to this.

Oh and earlier today my WH spoke to DD10 on the phone while we were at WalMart. I was speaking with to the guy in the tire/lube section so that I could get my vehicle serviced before heading to the beach. I heard DD10 say, "a guy", then she said, "a guy at walmart that works here". LOL I'm guessing that WH was wondering who the he11 I was talking to and if it was another guy that was with us. It amused me. I had forgotten about that until now.

I don't think you should move. I think your kids lives have been turned upside down enough by your WH and you should not add to that. Also I think you are looking at moving away as a way to run away from your problems. I'm just guessing this, but you moved away from your first husband and now you are wanting to move away from this husband. I think you should stay where you are and figure out what you are running away from. Work on fixing you and improving you so that the next time you pick a better guy who is worthy of being your husband and a good father figure to your kids. I speak this from experience, I have moved a few times in life because I wanted to start fresh, but you know what, it was not until I realized that if I wanted my life to change I had to change me and work on me, the city I lived in did not matter, it was about me. Okay that is just my two cents, so take it or leave it, but you did ask.

As for the myspace thing, my H never took my picture of his reunion.com profile even though the OW was his high school girlfriend and they got together through reunion.com, there is just no understanding the wayward mind.

My first husband actually moved away from me. I can, however, see how moving away from here would be running away. I just want to be around people who love and support me and most of them are there. I would be moving back home to my family. I have two friends here and his parents, that's IT. I can't depend on his parents because they are his. And, I know if I stay here, I will be more likely to worry about him and what he is doing and wanting to reconcile. If I go back home, I have my whole family and several friends to help me get through this. However, I don't know if my judgement at the moment is that great considering my stress and emotional levels, which is why I want to ask the opinions of you guys out there. Plus, I'm not that old (only 30) and obviously not that wise, so I could use some wisdom LOL.

I don't want to upset my children more, but it hurts them to know that their dad is only a couple blocks away, yet he is too busy with other things to come see them. It's really sad.

OMG OW just messaged me asking what it would take for me NOT to move. What should I do or say? Should I ignore her?

Well to point out the obvious, OW is having conversations with your WH about you. So he definitely is in contact with her.

You should be very cautious if you have any dialogue with her. Her motives I'm sure are selfish. What does she have to gain from you staying? Is she just trying to get info for your WH? Maybe he is trying to find out if you are serious about moving? Whatever the reason it in no way helps you for her to have any info from you.

That being said my curiosity would get the best of me and I would probably respond to her asking why she was asking. I know it is not the right thing to do and hopefully you have more self control than I would.

She is probably just baiting you to see if she can get you into a conversation and then try to get info out of you. Try to be strong and not fall for it. Try not to talk to her.

LOL, ok, so much for my Plan B I guess, at least regarding the OW. Blah, looks like I am actually in Plan C ugh. I contacted her through email and this is what I wrote....

H-
I guess I just thought that any sane female would stay away from a man who was married with children, no matter what they said or how much they complimented them. I told you that I didn't blame you totally but I know that if you hadn't been there to encourage or whatever you were doing, he would still be home, my children would still have a father, and I wouldn't have to listen to them every day tell me how badly they don't want to move. I wouldn't have to worry because my son won't know or bond with his father (who now doesn't care anyway. So, please don't tell me that you have put yourself in my shoes because you would understand these things if you had. My oldest daughter is only 7 years younger than you and she is so upset we are going to have to take her to a counselor. N-'s biological daughter has been doing bad in school and getting in trouble a lot. So, your gain of a friend is my family's loss of a husband and father. If you can't put yourself in my shoes, put them in my childrens. How would you feel if your father walked out on your mother and decided that some other person was more important than your mom and youself? How would you honestly feel? Because, it hurts me to see them hurt.
I don't know if this will even bother you or if you care. I know that you will tell N- everything that I tell you but it doesn't matter because he knows all of this and it still doesn't matter. So, you ask me not to hate you forever. I don't hate you at all, I don't have it in me to hate anyone. But, I don't think I could ever like you, especially after hearing my daughters wake up in the middle of the night crying so hard they are unable to breath, wanting to talk to their dad, but he can only talk to them on the phone, because he is at YOUR house with YOU. So, I don't know what you expected me to tell you, but I can't say, oh poor you, you've been put down by others. We all have and some of us are scarred by it, but part of growing up is realizing that YOU make your decisions and you live with them. The things that happen in your life make you who you are, but they don't cause you to make decisions that are terrible for youself and others.
So, I've opened my emotions and my childrens to you and all you've told me is that you've lied to me and that you have a friend in N-. Good for both of you, at least you have that. At least he has that too, hopefully it will make him happy when his arms ache to hold his daughter whom I know that he loves dearly. Because once I go, things will never be the same and the N- that I knew, the loving one with the big heart, will end up hating himself for what he has done to these kids. He loves them, I know that, and they are important to him and he is going to wake up and regret the loss that occured the day he walked out, the day they found out about you, the day he files for divorce, and the day that it is final. Not the loss of me, but the loss of three little girls who saw him as the all powerful male father who would never leave them. If you are a daddy's girl, then you understand. They were ALL daddy's girls and adored him. Now, he has lost that. So....that's all that I have to say. Nothing else matters.
T-

*sigh* So there is that. I sent that after she sent me a message
asking if I blamed her for everything and that she hoped that I didn't hate her, etc, etc. So, that is why she is saying that about the kids. But, what I don't understand is, what does she have to gain? If she was really selfless enough to want to know what she could do for him, then she would have left him alone in the first place, right? *sigh* I don't know, I'm totally confused.

Feel free to b*tch at me or hit me with a 2x4 for even contacting her back. Some Plan B I'm in. I can't seem to stick with anything.

5 days of absolutely no contact with WH! I know while I am at the beach I will have the strength and support to get through this. I will only be around those that love me....yay! It's enough to help me get over the hump I think.

I am glad that you had no contact with the WH. I also saw the email that you sent to the OW. Please try not to have any further contact with her either. It sounds as though you are trying to make her feel guilty but this woman has no conscience.

I originally posted a response to your situation on 5/7 and I have been keeping up with your progress because you sound a lot like my best friend when she was going through her mess with her ex-DH. I was not trying to be cruel but sometimes it is best to tell people the truth. As women, no matter how horrible the man treats us, we want to see things through rose colored glasses.

My DH cheated on me...I contacted the OW. I tried to make her feel guilty too but I soon realized that this woman did not care about me or my child. She wanted my DH. She lied, she schemed, and did EVERYTHING that she could to come between us. In the end, my DH was the only one who was able to put an end to things. We separated and he realized that he wanted his marriage and his family. When he approached me and wanted to come back home, I did not agree immediately. I told him that he and I had to see a marriage counselor. Even when my DH & I were going thru the worst period in our marriage, my DH was never cruel and mean to me. The things that your DH have said and done to you have been HEARTLESS!! There is no depression pill or any magically pill that is going to change him. Only he can change him.

In your DH's case, he sounds like a little boy. He has a lot of growing up to do. In my best friend's case, her ex-DH was in the navy and she was away from her family too. She had no one but her friends to support her. She tried to lean on her ex-DH's parents but they soon turned their back on her. I explained to her that no matter what, he was their son and they would not completely turn their back on their son in support of her.

I DO encourage you to move back closer to your family. At a time like this, you need emotional support. You also will have more support where the children are concerned. You can go back to school or just feel free to work on improving you...

You have to realize that YOU are more important than your wayward husband. Your children are more important than your WH. I will say this...You will soon look back and realized that your DH's decision to to leave was the most UNSELFISH decision he has ever made. Your DH does not seem to be READY, able, or WILLING to fulfill your emotional needs. But, most importantly, you have to find satisfaction in yourself. Seek counseling to determine why you seek out men who treat you cruelly and disrespectfully. Your key to moving on is changing the image that you have of yourself. When you improve your self-image, you will find out that you don't want or NEED your DH.

That is the truth. I don't understand why I stay with men who treat me that way. It's a sad thing. I'm not an unattractive or horrible person, I just seem to have codependency issues, I guess.

I've had no contact with my WH since I last posted. It's getting easier. Hopefully, it will stay this easy when I get back home.

Question: Does anyone know if there are rules about moving children out of state during separation? A friend of mine brought this subject up and I wasn't sure if it's a legal issue. If you guys don't know, do you know how I would find out? Knowing this would be a huge help in my decision to move.
Thanks guys!

I don't know where you are from but you can check into it online. Check out your states laws. You and your DH can draft a parenting agreement and then file it with the courts (you'll each have to have your signatures notarized).

My DH and his child's mother drafted a parenting agreement when she left the state. Actually, I drafted it after the two of them verbally came up with an agreement. It is easy to do. There are sample parenting agreement online (some dealing with out of state visitations). Just google it.

I know that you are in Plan B, so you can come up with the parenting agreement and mail it to him. If you decide to move to another state, you will have to have some contact with him at some point regarding the children. I don't know if this is a violation of Plan B or not.

Others can weigh in on this.

WH sent email stating how he didn't want us to move and that just because all of this was happening between he and I didn't mean that I had to move. He said that he wants to be in the children's lives more than just on holidays or breaks from school. He wants us to stay here so that he can get to know his son, etc, etc. It was sad and all that but it didn't get to me.....too badly.

I need to move for ME. By doing this I can give more to my children. Living just down the street from him is killing me. I want to drive by his parents house to see if he is there and I wonder what he is doing. I'm obsessing a hell of a lot less about it lately, but the thought still lurks. Basically, I just want him out of my life so I can concentrate on me and the kiddos. Is this selfish of me?

He was also worried about me being with someone else with his children and that he didn't want that, especially in the capacity that he is in with my oldest two girls. He doesn't want his kids to call another man Daddy. I think that it might finally be hitting him that I am SERIOUS. I'm not playing anymore and I know that I'm going to be fine. I just feel like some dynamic in our relationship has changed and I think that it might be me and my feelings. I don't know.

Baby,

I think you should move.

And, please, never talk to the OW again. She doesn't care about your family's feelings. She could give 2 sh-dirtyword-s less about anyone but herself.


And your moving is a CONSEQUENCE of his actions. We all know if he wasn't doing what he is doing, you wouldn't need to find your safe place.

And remember that this is not a punishment of him...if he's uncomfortable with what he's caused it's just a bonus...you moving is to protect you and your children from his crazy.

And we all know waywards are pretty dern convoluted in the cabaza.

I agree -- MOVE.

And get into Plan B. You are truly not there.
You are reading his texts, listening to his voicemails, reading his e-mails.

Plan B is to be DARK (both ways!) he doesn't get to know your plans or thoughts -- and YOU shouldn't be so involved in what is going on with HIM.

You need to be much much darker.

Plan B is designed to save a little bit of your love for WH away where he can't destroy it. By being reminded daily of his bad choices and behavior -- you are going to reach a point that I can already see you toying with -- NOT CARING ABOUT HIM ANYMORE.
He will destroy all of your remaining love for him.

He is desperate to talk with you because OW is failing to meet his needs and he NEEDS YOU. All of us can see it clearly! He will most definitely end the affair and want to come back to you.

But you are prolonging this process by emailing OW and leaving him messages. You are still part of the triangle.

Think of what OW would have thought if her text message was met with SILENCE.....

Think what WH would think if you never responded to anything he says....


MOVE. Move now. Move before any legal proceedings are started.
Move quickly before he tries to do something that makes you stay.

A fresh start 350 miles away from OW is exactly what you and HE will need when he is fog-free.

Getting into a very dark Plan B is so hard! Especially when he calls almost daily to speak with the girls and then wants to talk with me, etc. It puts them in the middle and I don't want that. I don't know what else to do?

Now you're just making excuses. Your girls will have no problem honoring your wishes. All you have to do is tell them you can't talk to daddy for the next 6 months. You don't have to explain anything to kids; they just accept what you tell them; they don't angst over it, they just say ok. If they forget the first few times, all you have to do when they hand you the phone is take it from them and simply hang it up. You don't OWE him the decency of talking to him. Plan B is NO CONTACT. It won't work any other way. So can you hang up the phone, or not? Are you will to do what you need for your kids' sakes, or not?

And I agree, you need to move NOW, before he starts legal proceedings.

I can definitely do what is best for my kiddos. It's just very difficult when I can't really find an intermediary for visitation, etc. I had thought that his parents would do it, but they work 16 hour days and aren't available at all times. I don't know anyone else that could do it. None of my friends live that close by. However, I will figure something out. It will be much easier once we move. I know that he doesn't plan to do anything legal until then because he doesn't have any money LOL. So, that is a good thing.

FIL stated today that I should move on with my life. That's what I'm trying to do. I'm not very trusting of my FIL at this time because of some of the things that have been said by him No matter what kind of mood he is in, bringing the children into things isn't a good thing to do. Ugh, my WH learned how to twist the verbal knife from his father, that is for sure.

I still feel that some dynamic changed in our relationship while I was gone. It was a lot darker during that time. Of course, it was only a few days, but things feel different. I;m not sure how, but theya re.

I could not agree more.

Move close to your own family. You need their loving support.
... and WH needs to feel the pain of this loss.
Do not stand in the way of WH's big fat lesson.

Moving may provide serious motivation for WH to get REAL.

Make this as REAL as possible. Do it quickly. And do NOT discuss this with OW ever again - in fact - move first, THEN tell WH you're with your own family.

Pep

On very good note! My uncle has a house that he bought awhile back and was thinking of renting out. It's on the same street as his house and my grandparents house (where my mom lives to take care of my grandfather) and is rather large with a gynormous yard. And.....(drum roll please)....he is most likely going to let me live there and pay a very small amount of rent if any at all! Yay!! I'm so freaking excited! It's in really good shape, has new carpet, etc, and is big enough for my (almost) Brady bunch. The LORD really does provide. It's funny, my mom had totally forgotten about it and so had I until yesterday. It's just a omplete blessing. He says that he wants to help us and I told him to talk it over with my aunt and pray about it. BUT, I have a really good feeling that this is going to be the home for myself and my children for awhile. YAY!!! I just can't get over the excitement haha.

I don't know if my WH will ever come out of his fog and even if he did, I don't know if he would admit that he was wrong. Whatever happens though, I know that the LORD will take care of my kiddos, and that is so important. I just feel so blessed!

Thank you guys for the posts too. I know that you are right, however, I just can't up and move. I have to wait until I received the stimulus money and that is in my name along with my WH's. So, I will need his signature (ugh) and I'm sure he will want some of it. I don't know how that will go

That sounds like very good news! So happy to hear that.

On the other hand, you are not in Plan B at all. STOP having communication with the OW. STOP having communication with hubby. Every time that you break Plan B, you are feeding the affair.

STOP IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*hangs head in shame* Yes ma'am. All I can say is....I have ADD? No really, I do, but that's not an excuse. I start doing well with Plan B, then something happens (it's usually something that's my fault). I have to get through MY withdrawal from him and I think that's what the problem is. Ugh....I've got to get some da*n willpower!!!!!!!

You have been doing fine. Just get a plan. Write it down - NO CONTACT. And when your ADD kicks in, go look at your written plan.

Most affairs don't end with Plan A. 85% take Plan B to end, and it needs to be a very dark Plan B.

Get some Post-It notes or stickers, write PLAN B on them in big letters, and put them on your computer and your phone. Reminds you every time you're tempted, not to contact.

You are a beautiful woman, with a beautiful family. What can hubby be thinking?

Ooooh the post it note idea is a good one!!! I definitely need to do that.

Thanks, believer. My WH is an idiot...LOL. At least according to everyone that I've talked to, including the in laws. But, oh well. I wish I could show you the OW. She is okay looking, but nothing I would write home to mom about and obviously she has not moral fiber considering what she has done. Blah, oh well.

No contact with WH today at all. Another good start, yay!

Good job. Just remember not to give him an Ayane fix. Every time you do, you are helping out the OW. Make HER meet all of his needs.

You're right. I'm 99.9% positive that she can't meet all of his EN's. Not that I even know what all of them are anymore. It's so weird thinking that person you built a life with now has a stranger inhabiting his body. It just makes me think that it's too far gone and too many things have been said for us to ever get back together. *sigh*

You haven't been around here long enough to see it, but when they ditch the other person, they usually snap right back to normal.

How are things going?

I went to the doctor today and found out that I am dilated 1 centimeter, which isn't good considering that I'm not 32 weeks yet. They gave me meds to take if I have 5 or more braxton hicks or any kind of contractions within an hour. I really don't want to have preterm labor. All of my other kiddos were late or about on time. I want to keep this little guy in there as long as possible!

Other than that....no contact with the hubby. I spoke with MIL about moving and she brought him up, though I asked her not to. I did remind her that I didn't want to talk about him though (go me!!!). DD5 keeps asking me why her daddy and myself can't live together anymore. I don't know what to tell her. It sucks though....my WH should be the one answering these questions.

Getting to the point where I don't obsess over what he is doing or not doing. I very rarely think about it, which is great.

Try to relax and take very good care of yourself.

I had a similar problem with my 2nd child. I was dilated a couple cms as I remember. My doc told me that his patients with similar dilation had their kids at home or on the way to the hospital. He told me to go to the hospital right away if I had contractions.

It turned out I went into labor while at the hospital for my checkup. And I delivered my son in the hall while on the way to the delivery room, with the wonderful nurses. My doc was still putting a lab coat on to cover his suit. Start to finish was 20 minutes. Of course that was 23 years ago. Now days I'm sure they are much better prepared.

You need to really believe that hubby will end the affair and be back.

I think his number one problem is that he is young and apparently hasn't had the best example from his parents.

Labor AND delivery in 20 minutes! THAT'S what I'm talking about!!! Haha I wish they were all that fast!

OW contacted me tonight on myspace, wanting to know what she could do to make me stay so that my WH could see his kids, since she knows that he really wants to. Which means they are in contact all the time. I haven't replied and don't plan to. What is the point? Nothing is going to change or get better until he wants them to and he doesn't, so....

I have nothing to say to her anymore anyway. I also changed my settings so that she can't contact me since she isn't a friend. So, there is one worry taken awa

Oh! And I told my in laws that I didn't want to hear anything about my WH. Hopefully they will respect my wishes and not tell me anything. Something weird though. WH stopped by this morning on the way to work. I didn't know who it was and for some reason we don't have a peephole, so I opened the door all sleepy-eyed and blah. He said he was there to see DD5 since he told her he would (he could have called before coming). He seemed mad and had a p.o.'ed look on his face. *sigh* Who knows. I really wish that he had called first though, then the girls could have answered the door.

I was speaking with a friend tonight and she was talking about her relationship with her H. They don't have much in common and they fight all the time. And she asked me, how did you deal with things that you didn't have in common and never would? I had no answer for her. My H and I had nearly everything in common. One of the few that I could think of was that I liked to read and he would rather watch japanese anime and read on the screen haha. We didn't fight unless we'd had too much to drink (well usually me since I brought up past stuff), and we were amazingly well suited. I have to say that we were the couple that everyone thought would last, the one that seemed to love each other so much. My WH told people that I was a goddess and he loved me sooo much. Of course, this was many months ago. I was just thinking of these things and wondering why he left. I see couples who can barely stand one another, yet they stay together for a long time if not until death. Why not my marriage? I just don't understand how my marriage and life went to pieces but these people who don't seem to love one another, let alone like each other, flourish. My WH tells me that he loves me but he's not in love with me and that he is unhappy so he is leaving. These couples tell one another that they hate each other, yet they stay together, even if they don't have kids. *sigh* Sorry, I'm not having a great day today.

Ayane, I come from one of those miserable marriages. The only thing that has saved my sanity is reading. Psychology textbooks I buy at garage sales, self-help books, magazine articles, newsletters, everything I can get my hands on about humans, psychology, sociology, everything I can find about how humans work. I have found it really helps me to get through all my problems, to understand why people do what they do. You might want to consider it; it might help get you through this stuff.

I'm having a bad day today. I ended up having to go to the ER last night due to pain. I'm still dilated 1 cm and I'm effaced 50%, which isn't good. I was having mini contractions, nothing extremely bad, but I had A LOT of pressure in my lower abdomen, along with pain in my abdomen and back, and just an allover sick feeling. I've not been feeling like myself at all these past few days, even my best friend made mention of it.

Anyway, WH immediately left work and picked up the kiddos so I could go up there. I talked to him when he called my hospital room. *sigh* He called me babes like he used to, which sucks, but I know that I can't take anything that he says to heart. Anyway, I'm in a bad way today. Feeling second best again and worthless to him which sucks. I haven't felt this way in a bit. I don't know if it's the hormones, the meds, or what. I'm just having a really depressed day.

Thinking about getting a hitch put on my van so I can pack up some stuff and move earlier that expected. I figure if I can at least get the kids bunkbeds and some other large items, I'll be okay staying at the efficiency apartment that my mom has on the property. At least until the end of the month. Then I can come back up here and get the rest of my items. I don't know. I just want to be gone. But, i don't know if this is the best time to make any decisions. *sigh* Any suggestions?

Oh honey, you need to try to rest and take care of you. Moving right now would be stressful, but staying where you are without support is stressful also. Do you have any family members that could come stay with you and be supportive of you. Or could you just pack suitcases and go stay with a family member?

Has the doctor put you on bed rest?

I suggest you stay put. You have no business trying to move right now. That little one needs to wait to be born!

Are you taking good care of yourself and getting any rest?

No, they haven't put me on bed rest yet. I'm getting plenty of rest though, that's pretty much all that I can do. When I get up to do anything, I just feel sooo tired and want to go back to sleep. Haha thank goodness I have a laptop so I can just sit it on me and type

I don't know. I might just pack up our clothing and have someone keep an eye on the house and head to my mom's to stay. I want to be somewhere I feel loved and supported and it's not here. I have a couple friends, but it's just not the same as having family around. It may sound selfish, but right now I want someone who can help me take care of me....LOL. *sigh* It could just be my hormones talking, I don't know. I don't like feeling like this though, I should be able to handle this.

Back to Plan B though, immediately after that. Though, admittedly not a very good one at the moment, as I keep thinking, but I'm not speaking, texting, or seeing, so I guess that is good.

How far does mom live?

350 miles away, where I plan to move for good.

I'm trying to take your advice believer and really believe (lol) that he will come home, but it's hard. I know about positive thinking and if you think positive things, they happen, and all that. Some days I can do it, but today just isn't one of them. I'm also sad thinking that I'm going to have to go through labor alone or with just my mom. I've never done that before. I've also never been in the hospital, even for observation, without him there. It's a trying time.

Ayane, you need to take good care of you and your little one right now. How long of a drive is it from where you are now to your mom's? If you are having mini-contractions and pain, you should not make the drive just yet. The last thing you need is for something to happen during the drive. Are you still working? Can you take a day or two from work and sleep while the kid are at school or at someone's house?

You are going through a lot of stress right now but hold on...You can make it. Just keep holding on. You are strong and you can endure with or without your DH.

I'm sure he will be back. Please don't take chances with your health, or the health of your baby. That is a LONG drive.

Any chance your mom could come stay with you?

I wish. She has to work though and she's already used her vacation time, so.....*sigh* I don't know. I could wait until my appointment on Thursday and see what the doctor says. I could very well change my mind tomorrow though...my thought processes are crazy right now. I feel bi polar half the time

Do you have any money to spare? If so, you could pay for someone's plane ticket to come down and drive you home in your car with you and the kids. Or you could arrange for a hotel to stay in halfway there and make it a two-day trip.

Do you have any friends at all? Any organizations you belong to, where you can see a friendly face? Heck, just go visit the doctor's office if you have to.

Be creative; find ways to fulfill yourself, if you can't leave yet.

Ayane - Hang in there. I forget all the baby stuff, but as I recall, a baby has an good chance of not having problems after 30 weeks. And each and every week after that increases their chances of having a normal birth with no problems.

THAT must be your first concern. I know it is miserable for you now, but that won't last forever. These waywards always snap out of it.

I beg you to take good care of yourself for a couple more weeks. Don't panic and move. Stay calm. It isn't going to be pleasant, but may make all of the difference in the world to your child.

I just don't want it to be too late when he finally snaps out of it *sigh*. But, you are correct. I don't need to get upset and run away so quickly. I'm still planning on moving, but I need to have it planned out.

So far, all of the wayward men with expecting wives have snapped out of it very quickly once baby arrives. I don't know the reason, but that is how it usually goes.

You can move later. Now is not the time. You've been waiting all of this time, don't give up now.

I think what the problem is today is that the idea that I might have the baby sooner than I thought is hitting me. I'm scared, I really, really am. I've never been through this on my own and it scares the he11 out of me! If I went into labor, my mom is 5 hours away. I have friends, but what if it's really late at night or they are at work? It's a terribly lonely thought and that sucks.

Yes, it would be very lonely. No doubt about that.

How did your other deliveries go?

I had the most problems with my last one, but none of them were completely horrible. None were super fast either, but I've heard of worse stories than mine.

How were all of yours?

The first one was easy. I attended LaMaze classes and it was a breeze.

The second (30 minute wonder) was awful. Even though it was fast, it left me shaking for hours. In fact, I didn't want anything to do with the baby. Didn't want to see him, hold him, nothing. They sent the social worker up to see me to see if something was wrong with me.

But I think it was just the shock on my body. We bonded very nicely and are still close. He is 23.

Hopefully yours will go well. Was your hubby a big help?

Mine was kind of useless.

As a distraction and as emotional support he was great, but when it came down to it he was kind of useless. He cried, lol and was so excited that he got to go with her down to the nursery (I can't remember if he carried her or not). It was very sweet. I just can't imagine him not being that way with his son. He is the last male in his family and they have been bugging us about having a boy for years. Finally they get one and now he does this....it's crazy.

I'm certain he will be back.

Are you close to anyone in his family? Maybe you could ask one of them to come with you to the hospital.

I think the only problem your hubby has is that he is very young.

Yeah, I will agree with the very young part. I might be able to get his parents to come to the hospital with me, I don't know.

*sigh* I just had an accident though. I was pulling out of my driveway and hit another car. Luckily no one was hurt and the damage wasn't too bad. Blah, just my luck

Be careful driving. We have had quite a few BS's here having accidents. All of this affair stuff is so mind-moggling that I think sometimes they are very distracted.

Peronally, I think I would talk to his family. This coming child is the male heir. Let them know that you love your husband, but need some support. Ask if anyone can come to the hospital with you.

Actually, I'll be amazed if he doesn't show up.

Hope you feel like you can hang in there a couple more weeks.

How are the rest of the kiddos doing?

DD5 keeps asking why daddy and I can't live together. I've told her it's because daddy thinks it's better this way and doesn't want to. I don't know what else to say to her. He should be answering these questions. DD12 has way more attitude than she should and is lashing out at all of us except WH. She says that he would only get mad and doesn't care anyway, though I've assured her that that's not true. I've set up an appointment for her with a counselor. DD10 seems to be doing okay. I love her dearly and I've always called her my little blonde. LOL. I think she is just oblivious enough to get through it. She said that whenever she starts to think about dad not being here she just changes what she is thinking about.

Other than that, they are okay. They don't want to move, except DD10 is kind of excited, but I still think that is the best move for all of us. It might make WH see what he is missing out on, I don't know.

"She said that whenever she starts to think about dad not being here she just changes what she is thinking about."

Sounds like a healthy way to think. A lot of adults haven't figured that out.

And you might as well tell DD5 that daddy has a girlfriend, and married folks don't do that.

I did tell her that Daddy had met another woman that he liked more than mommy and that's the reason he moved to grandma and grandpa's. She hasn't mentioned anything about that since, just asking why we can't live together. Should I just tell her the same thing again?

Tell her the truth - that her father has a girlfriend, and is mixed up. Let her know that you have a plan to work all of this out.

I have the plans, but I don't know if it will work out the way that we (the girls and myself) want it to. So, I'm afraid to tell her that, I'm afraid that it will be a lie.

Blah, just saw a recent picture of the OW and I'm just wondering WTF my stupid WH is thinking? She is NOT cute in these pictures at all. I wonder if it makes her feel good to know she took a guy away from someone who is clearly her superior in looks and good sense (lol not that I'm gorgeous or anything, but OMG she is not attractive!).

Ayane,
these a free ebook called '31 reasons to end your affair" One of the 31 reasons is that the WS affairs down. As in looks, abilities, intellegence, the works.
'my' OW is 36, looks 46, is crass, uncouth, stupid, has a mental disorder that she willl not take her meds for, drinks heavily, has lost custody of her 4 children under 10, and doesnt understand the need for faithfulness.... not even to my WH.
Still i should grateful she made that very apparent, its the reason he is coming home.
I on the other hand am reasonably good looking when I am not on the BS diet, run my own business, am well educated, am 34, has custody of both my girls (neither father would or could take them off me) know what fork to use, and have been 100% faithful to my WH.
So trust me, her 'blah' works in your favour

I don't know if it does or not. Apparently she is the type of girl who is very easily manipulated and I'm not. I don't know so much if it's how she looks that my WH likes or the fact that she will do whatever and believe whatever he says. So, yeah, she isn't as attractive as I am, but he still feels there is a "connection" (ugh) and that she is so sweet while I am the antichrist. *sigh*

LOL, I know how you feel, Ayane. While I'm about average, my WW's OM looks like some homeless bum (even according to my DD, who's met him), is a convicted felon out on parole for drug dealing, has Child Support Enforcement after him now that he's out of prison for the three women he knocked up (only one of whom was his wife), he's not even sure if he's legally divorced from his wife, his one legitimate kid hates him, and he doesn't know the other two, is probably an alcoholic, and rents in a trailer park.

In contrast, I have a Bachelor's, Master's and Professional degree, I helped raise, and eventually adopted her two kids from her prior marriage. I make about 6 times what he does, and we've always lived in a nice home.

But, I guess it proves once again that it's the bad boys that get laid.

I just don't get it, but then I suppose I'm not ever going to, so I'm not even going to try. The wayward mind is a thing on it's own and it's CRAZY!!

I woke up with a horrible feeling in the pit of my stomach and I continue to have it. A feeling in my bones that something bad is going to happen. I hope it's not right. I've been praying about my decisions and I feel that I'm on the course that God wants me to be on, so that is nice. Then, my mind analytical mind starts working and I second guess myself. I wonder if it's just my subconcious telling me what I want to hear (haha wonder if that's what happens to a wayward??? ). I wish I could turn a switch off in my brain and be totally oblivious sometimes.

Ayane - Actually you ARE gorgeous. Be glad hubby picked a dog. Mine picked an OW who was 20 years younger than I and quite pretty. That SUCKED because it made me feel so hopeless. But their affair ended too. Just like they all do.

I think your hubby is using the affair as more of a way to escape his responsibilities. But I'm sure that the OW isn't going to stay sweet for long. The reality of living together will finally cause some problems. Then he will figure out that life has problems no matter who you live with.

When he finally has to start paying some child support, that will give him an even bigger dose of reality. Let's just hope the OW doesn't turn up pregnant.

Sorry you are feeling like something bad is going to happen. Try to stay calm. This should be a happy period in your life. It is not fair to you or your children. But that is the way life works.

That's right. What's that saying - When life gives you lemons, make lemonade...? LOL, I never thought I had the sugary sweetness to do that, but I'll sure try .

Thanks for the compliment believer...I'm slowly learning to think that about myself, it's just a difficult process when my self esteem has been low for years. I'm sorry that your xWH picked someone like that, I know that had to be hard for you. I guess somewhere I had it in my mind that if your going to destroy our whole family, she had better be something that I consider spectacular. LOL, I tend to forget sometimes, that my opinion doesn't matter. But, I know that if things don't work out with my WH and I start dating again, I want someone who is going to wow him. That could be my childishness or selfishness, I don't know. But, I certainly wouldn't want to be with someone that my ex says, WTH is she thinking about? Haha, I guess I thought he would feel the same way.

Yes, my WH is very young and immature and I didn't realize how much until all of this. I don't think he understands the full ramification and consequences of his actions. He hasn't thought anything out. After the baby is born, he will be paying child support that is nearly half his income!! When I move he will get this apartment and that will take nearly all of the rest of his income. He will have none left for utilities, etc. I don't know what he is going to do, but it's not my problem anymore.

I spoke with my best friend last night about moving and she was asking what would I do if the move opened his eyes and he changed and wanted to work things out. She said moving would be bad because I would just have to move right back. I stopped her immediately and said NO, once I go, I go. If he comes to his senses, he has to do the work, make the move, prove that he has changed, and wants to be a good husband and father. I won't move back. I want to leave this place and get back to somewhere that holds sweet memories for me....of our relationship and just my life in general. Everything hurtful that has happened in our relationship has happened in this apartment and in this town. I'm done here. It feels like time to move on.

I forget, why did you move in the first place?

Because his parents live here and we just wanted to move somewhere else for awhile.

Blah, WH sent a message through the kids that he "never intended to hurt me ever". Haha what a joke. I had no comment. If he never intended to hurt me he would be home right now going through this baby stuff with me instead of out f'ing around with stupid people. *sigh* Sorry, I'm a little po'ed

Ugh, saw a recent picture of Dakota Fanning and realized that the OW looks like an older, less attractive Ms. Fanning. It's really weird.

Don't reply. You are exactly right - he could end all of this today if he so chose.

I need to take up meditation again, maybe some buddhist chants

The concept of Be Still appeals for me, it's just a difficult thing. During the day things usually aren't so bad, but at night, when the kids are asleep, it's hard. I usually have to take something to help me sleep and I still sleep on the couch.

I don't intend to reply to him at all unless he says he wants to end this now and get things worked out.

WH called wanting to talk to me about the dog. He is going to lodge her somewhere else until the kids and I move and he moves back into the apartment and can keep her. I didn't talk to him, woohoo!!! I am going to contact his mom and tell her that I will drop the dog off at a certain time and I DO NOT want to see him. Think that will work?

I got the child support papers today, yay! They will begin taking it out of his check at the next payperiod, so that's a good thing. I also asked about taking DD5 out of state if I move and the woman referred me to a free attorney that sees people on Mondays and Weds so I guess that's what I'm doing this evening :-)

That is such good news, Ayane. See, good things are going to start happening to you.

After exposure, reality is the biggest affair killer.

Stick with Plan B. Everything is starting to come together.

The only thing that sucks about my Plan B is that I don't think I did a very good Plan A beforehand, but oh well.

On a good note - I got a call today about a job that I applied for almost a year ago, a human resources assistant for the city. I would love to get that job and it's something that would make me stay here. I was honest and told the woman that I was pregnant so now it's in God's hands on whether I get it or not. I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

*sigh* Really missing the hubby today. I just wish he would come back home. I wish I could tell him that we want him home and he would move all his stuff back, but I know that he won't. It really, really hurts. Most days are okay, but this whole weekend and today I've just been an emotional wreck, missing him and wondering what the hell is wrong with me. Blah, I know that self pity isn't pretty, but I can't seem to help myself at this moment. I would be happy to just have a big hug from him right now. *sigh* I hope these feelings go away soon.

WH is hanging out more and more with the chick that he cheated with before. The one that just a couple months ago he couldn't stand and called a whore. They are probably being physical too and that bothers me. I mean how can he tell me that he doesn't think about me "that way" but he can go and do stuff with a dumpy girl who is less attractive than the OW? It makes me feel like complete sh*t. I just don't get it.

Once he starts paying child support he will start thinking and may change his actions.

Everything is in your favor, so stay strong.

How did you find out what he is doing? You are not supposed to be hearing anything about him.

He told the kids where he took the dog (now she has my husband hanging out with her AND my damn dog) and they told me.

I haven't contacted him though so that is good.

The woman called me back about the job that I wrote about yesterday. They want me to come in and do some testing, yay! This was the job that I really, really wanted and was so disappointed that I didn't get. I would love to have it. So, I'll use the skills that I have (haha typing test tomorrow, I've got smoking fingers on the keyboard!) and the rest is up God and where he wants me to be. I would definitely stay here and not move if I got this position, if I didn't I would definitely go home. I'm not hanging everything on it, it's just that I had made up my mind to go and out of the blue, they call. So.....

Good things are a'coming

Prayers going up for you to get this job. And if this one doesn't work out, put in for some more jobs. Nothing like working to take your mind of problems.

WH called today to try and speak with me. I had DD10 answer the phone and when he persisted, I took it and hung it up. He called my mom and was going on about child support and how me taking DD5 out of state if I move is kidnapping. He said he was the only father figure the girls know and my mom told him that he should have thought of that before he left. He didn't like that and was ready to get off the phone immediately.

I called a lawyer to ask about moving DD5 out of state and I was told that I could move her wherever I wanted to. There was no law stating that I had to have his agreement. So, that is a good thing.

I just don't understand why he was adamant that we move when he first left, telling me and my mom that we should go, but now he doesn't want us to leave. I don't think it's the kids, because if it was, he would be spending a lot more time with them. I don't know if it's just to be a jerk or what. But, I was so very proud of myself for hanging up on him again. LOL, and he told my mom that I needed to grow up and talk to him.

just wanted to comment about the dog



You know, dogs like to sniff each other's butts every now and then. Just because you don't like her, doesn't mean your dog should go without an opportunity to meet another dog.



SB

LOL, SchoolBus. Hang in there Ayane. Stay dark.

He wanted you GONE when he first started the affair. That is so he could conduct it without any problems from you.

Now, you are still the back-up plan, and he wants you near.

I'm not sure I like being a backup plan. Matter of fact, I'm SURE that I don't like it. He's totally gone about it the wrong way if that's what he plans. Who knows.

LMAO SB.....you are so right. If I get this job I can get my butt sniffing dog back from the other one. Ugh.

Thinking of starting my Plan B thread and retire this one. Is that acceptable? I don't want to have a million threads.

Well now I'm not that dark at all. My WH sent a message on myspace from another name. I'm going to post it here because he is just one weird guy.

"alright....let's talk, about this stuff. i am pretty sure i am making the decisions i need to in my life now. i have enjoyed my time minus not being with the girls. and i must honestly say that you leaving with them and our boy is the exact reason i never wanted to initiate this [censored] in the first place. but i can't make you stay. i wish with all my heart that you would stay around for the kids sake because i would very much want to be a part of their daily or weekly lives and not a holiday and phone call dad. i love our kids. i will never stop loving them. so don't think that even if you do leave that i will leave their lives, because i very well may put myself once again to be able to be a part of their daily lives by moving back to (city name) or something of the like with my networking degree just so i could be around them again, and spend more time with my son. spending time with them IS important, and i am remorseful for the situation i put everyone in. but sorry doesn't cut it."


It doesn't seem like a very remorseful message to me. It's funny the way that he thinks because he isn't involved in the kids daily life now and he IS a phone call dad. He doesn't see them on his days off, he is spending time with others. By the time he gets his degree, his son will be walking. That is a long time away and children grow so quickly, especially with the out of sight, out of mind mentality.

I'm not replying back to him.

He does sound a bit remorseful, but remember, he can fix that at any time. Don't respond. Stay dark. Don't give him an Ayane fix. And don't open any more emails.

It sounds to me like he knows he screwed everthing up, but doesn't want to fix it and even if he did it sounds like he doesn't think he could. At least that is my take on him saying "i am remorseful for the situation i put everyone in. but sorry doesn't cut it."

It also sounds like he is trying to manipulate you into not moving by pulling on your heart strings for the kids.

Why do you think he sent you this message?

I have no idea. He has been trying to contact me by phone, but I won't talk to him. He was all up for me moving when we first separated but now he doesn't want me to because of the kids. I don't know what goes on in his brain. He is having fun just running around and doing what he wants to do. I think that he likes having no responsibilities. So, I guess if I had to answer....why do I think he sent this to me I would say:

To let me know that he doesn't want me, he's happy where he is, he doesn't want to fix us, but he does love the kids.

Hey, you changed your name! I would like to change mine also, just in case WH ever decided to come here, he would probably know that I chose this name. Did you just get a new account?

To change your name you just go to "my stuff" then to "my profile" then just type a new name in your display name and click on submit.

Thanks! How are you doing BTW??

Why do you think he sent this message? Sometimes I feel that I am too close to this emotionally to know what the hell is going on.

My H said almost the same exact stuff. He said he did not love me and had not loved me for years. He said he was happy where he was and he was not ready to come home. He said he loved our daughter and he actually wanted me to move to be closer to him so he could see our daughter more. He said all this about a week before we began to reconcile.

My situation was a bit different though, he said all that to me in response to me wanting to meet with him and talk about our marriage. He didn't want to meet, but eventually agreed to. At that point I poured my heart out to him and told him all the things that I realized I did wrong and that I would change, I told him how much I loved him and missed him and what a wonderful man he was. It was pretty pathetic, he got angry and said horrible things to me and I just sat there crying and threw myself on him and hugged him as he walked out my door. When he left I thought we were done for sure, he made it very clear that he was happy with his new life.

I must say I am glad I did not know about MB at that time because I would have embraced plan B and that would have ended my marriage. My H needed to hear how much I needed him and how sorry I was and that I could see the mistakes that I had made. He needed to say all those horrible and see that I still loved him no matter what he told me. He needed to know there was a way home and that we could fix our marriage. MB has helped me immensely with recovery and I did do a great plan A as soon as he said he wanted to work on our marriage.

Sorry to ramble on about my situation, there is just so much about what you say about your WH that I can relate to.

I'm doing pretty good. Having some anxiety over my H having to travel for work next week for 8 days. But I'm doing good. Thanks for asking.

I wonder if your H sent you this because a part of him wants to come home, but maybe he feels like your marriage is to far gone. Maybe he thinks he was not happy before he left, so what would change if he came back? Maybe he does not know how to fix your marriage and just feels like starting a new life without you is his only option?

I see the point of the Plan B, but it's very hard. I'm someone who feels that we NEED to talk daily to keep our relationship going. But, I have a lot less stress when we don't. So, I do like that. I want to know what is going on with his life, but with Plan B, I'm not obsessing about where he is, etc. That is good.

I don't know how much more pathetic I could be. I'm glad that I haven't begged and pleaded lately. I don't think that makes him want me anymore. I don't know what to think. I'm just torn when it comes to him because I don't know if he doesn't want us to move just because of the kids or if I have any part of it. I don't want to let my heart have any hope. Plus, my head says just let it go. Let HIM go. That's what I'm trying to do.

Great, I found out that my auto insurance hadn't been kept up (I thought WH was paying it) and now I am going to owe over 1600 bucks to pay for damages to the car. Though, how in the world it's that much, I don't know. We need to get something worked out because the only thing that was done to the car, was a dent, a scratch, and a bent rim so that shouldn't be 1600.00. I might need to get them to take the car somewhere else.

I would send hubby the bill. He was supposed to be paying the insurance.

Other than that, stay dark. In his email he says he thinks he is making good decisions, blah, blah, blah. But he is still trying to contact you. Don't give him a fix.

I can promise you that all is not well in his life.

You know before I make decisions I would be more than "pretty sure" that they were the right ones. Of course, I usually don't make decisions that affect many people's lives on the fly either. So....

Nothing sent back to him. I'm changing myspace pages and all that so that he can't contact me.

Your welcome. Is he going alone? Are you okay with that?

Hi, Ayane

Starting a new Plan B thread and calling it that isn't a bad idea. You might catch the attention of some of the long-term Plan B'ers around (like me). Maybe start the thread with a summary of where you are for those of us without the time/inclination/attention span to read all threads in their entirety.

Just a thought.

SDG

Yes he is going alone. I can't go because it is the last week of Kindergarten for our daughter and she has a ballet recital and a stage performance. He is in the transportation business for tradeshows and this is his biggest show of the year but it is 3 weeks earlier than usual otherwise I would have considered going with him. I am mostly okay with him going, but I do get anxiety when we are apart, I don't sleep much. I have nightmares on a pretty regular basis for the past year, had one last night, when my H is here to wake me when I start screaming and hold me after it makes a huge difference. My IC gave me some tips on how to talk to my H before he goes that are supposed to help us feel more connected and help me feel better about him being gone. I guess I will find out next week if the tips work.

I really hope that they do. Has your IC helped alot during this process? Does he see an IC also?

Blah, WH has been talking to a chick at work who is also one of my best friend's sister. Talking as in talking about me and the kids, not talking as in wanting to go out. She let me know about it and said basically she just nodded and said uh-huh a lot because she doesn't want to get into it as it's none of her business. He was saying how our relationship wasn't working and he doesn't want to be in it not even for the kids, but he wants to be around them and be a good father, blah, blah, blah. Same old, same old I guess.

Also, MIL called and said she talked with WH some last night or at least tried to. He complained because he doesn't have an control over the situation and he doesn't like that. MIL said when she explained to him that we could move and he coudn't stop us, he got very confrontational with her and almost squealed (her words not mine) "I don't want to talk about it right now!" and left. FIL was pretty mad because one of the conditions of him staying at their house is to go to school and make sure he has homework done, etc, etc. He was suppose to work on that last night and didn't so FIL ripped him a new, according to MIL. Doesn't that make him feel even more like a child? Anyway, I guess that is why he decided to send that message.

STOP TALKING TO PEOPLE ABOUT HIM.

Not your friends...not your inlaws.

You are in Plan B. His thoughts, his actions, his words should be INVISIBLE to you.

MOVE.

Please please move.
You don't see your power.

Lexxxy - Do you think she should move while 33 weeks pregnant, with a possible early delivery coming? She should do all the packing, and drive 350 miles?

If I move, I would just be packing up some clothing and minor stuff for the kids until I get more money, then I would move everything. I would keep the apartment until then.

I know that you are so right. People just love to call me and tell me these things and of course, once they are started, I can't stop because I WANT to hear. *sigh* I doing a terrible Plan B.

Actually my H went to an IC a few times before we got back together. He called it MC, but I did not because in my mind MC means both spouses are involved. As soon as my H saw me going out on a date he realized he loved me and wanted to work on our marriage and we then went to MC for a couple of months. We both felt like we got all we could from the MC so we stopped going. I just starting going to IC a couple of months ago and it really has helped me. What's funny is my H is the one who encouraged me to go to IC because he feels like it helped him so much, but then last week he questioned if I needed to keep going. I had to remind him that he is the one who pushed me into going, he just smiled because he got what I was saying. It's weird knowing your spouse is going to IC, because you know they are talking about very private things.