Discovery day was Valentines day this year.How ironic is that?!Actually,I caught her cheating many years ago.I dont know if shes considered a serial cheater because we were in an unstable long distance relationship when she was seeing several men.We were on and off with many breaks in between.Then we finally made a serious commitment to our relationship and she moved in with me in 2000.We've had our ups and downs but nothing really serious.We constantly talked about our future plans and I honestly felt that our love and relationship would last forever.Although she would tell me now that all this time,she had thought about leaving me.She also said that maybe she had never really loved me and along with many of the fog talk other people have mentioned here.
It took me many years to get over her promiscuous past and restored the love I have for her.But its like deja vu all over again.The lies,the deceits ,the betrayal all came back on DD 2 on Valentines day.I fell into abyss and depression .I cant even describe what I had gone through for the next several days.I thought I was going to die from lack of sleep and malnutrition.On top of that,my wife felt no remorse and even complained about how weak I was under these circumstances.I think most of the BH here could understand what I'm talking about.
Its been over 2 weeks now.I am getting a little better with prayers to the Lord.He is helping me through all this.I am also grateful with the resources on the web.MB and SI and several other sites have provided me with lots of powerful knowledge and support.Ive been reading about different stories and I realized many of our stories are very similar in many ways.Sometimes,it feels like I am reading about my own story. Its encouraging to see some people having a positive outcome after the affair.But at times,I feel hopeless and helpless because my WW is not willing to end her affair.I wanted to give up but after many prayers,I feel I should still try to salvage my marriage because I still love her.
She met the man through her school reunion in Nov last year.She was always telling me about the gossips and news of her schoolmates but she never really talked about this man.She started exhibiting all the signs such as making dramatic changes in her appearance,losing a lot of weight,spending many hours on FB and she suddenly stopped talking about her schoolmates.The thing that made my radar went off was her FB password was changed.She would no longer leave her FB out in the open.She would be cautious everytime she leaves the computer,her FB would be logged off.I became very suspicious but I didnt want to confront her because I wanted to so believe she is a changed woman,a loyal and faithful wife to her husband.We goto church every week and the thought of cheating has not run in my mind for many years.I thought all the pain we had gone through after the affairs she had years ago would be something we would remember for the rest of our lives.I read from somewhere that "once a cheater,always a cheater"was a myth because most people who cheat would not cheat again because of how devastating the experience was for all parties involved.But the harsh reality was she met him in Nov and started the affair in the last week of Jan.It was EA/PA.They had just about 5 dates and she tells me they are both made for each other .The affair took place in her home country where the man resides.We live in another country.She goes back to visit her family every other month .So this is a long distance affair since they dont live in the same country but she is planning to see him again when she visits her family in April.I dont know if this is to my advantage or not.Although they cant be together physically all the time but you know the saying ....distance/absence makes the heart grow fonder..........I can tell she is totally addicted.She thinks he is the perfect man and my flaws are constantly magnified.Now I know Plan A is brutal and why only 15% succeed.Most have to resort to Plan B.
So I finally confronted her on Valentines day because I couldnt hold it in any longer.She denied at first .Then she caved in and admitted to the affair before I even have to present the evidence. She said she was going to end the affair and I would not find out for the rest of my life.I asked her if she wanted to save our marriage by going to counselling.She said she needed a few days to sort things out.Sounds familiar?Instead of ending the affair,she continues to make contact over the net and phone calls to OM.I feel hopeless and wants to give up this time because she is like another person.She has no remorse whatsoever.!!Its like a whole different person or a split personality .But we are still going to church and she prays at bedtime.I have no idea what is going on sometimes.Its so surreal!!
She initially proposed an open marriage.I rejected.Now she is proposing that we be friends/family.We can live together and be like brother and sister.She said I will eventually lose the remaining love that I have for her and everything would be ok.Is that possible?She is my best friend and the closest person to me in this world.But wouldnt I resent her ?Or would be I able to accept her like family?Is that a viable sensible solution?It does sound appealing....no more pain when I look at her.Its just like looking at your best friend,a roommate.....
I am aware the WW are all in a fog.What about their conscience?If my wife had a shred of conscience in her ,she would not be doing and saying the things that are so hurtful to me.She would also show remorse .Has anyone show their WW these forums here?I want to know how WW responds to the things the FWW said.
I know that exposing the affair immediately is important.But I dont want her mom to know because she is very old.I dont know how she would take it.
The OM is married but they live in another country.I am still looking for her fb but what if her fb was not set up to receive private msg?Any other way to contact her?
To make things more complicated,my wife and I are business partners.I am afraid the OM would leave his wife and ask my wife to be with him.He told my wife about his plans to do that but I dont know how much truth is that.Our business is facing some difficulties and our finance is not in place so the financial support need is not being met at the moment.Should I still expose now or wait til our financials improve?
How much should I expose to the OMW?Should I include their dirty prv msgs?
I really want to expose to her schoolmates.They have a school reunion fb.This is where everything started.However,many of her friends are either cheaters themselves or are thinking about cheating.Some even encouraged her to be with the OM!!I dont know any of them nor have I met them.They all reside in the same country as the OM.The only way I could expose is on fb.But by broadcasting hundreds of prv msgs to everyone on the reunion fb,they would think I am some crazy controlling husband.
I am dizzy as I am wrting this.Please ask questions if I have not made things clear.......Its a pain putting this together.I would appreciate for any advice.Thanks.

Married.No Children.
WW and BH:40ish
DD1:1998 DD 2:2012 Valentines Day
EA/PA:2012 Jan-present

Are you married?

Yes

Welcome to the place you'd rather not be.

Here's your game-plan:

NEVERGUESSED�S BETRAYED HUSBAND SURVIVAL KIT

1- KEEP ALL THESE ARRANGEMENTS SECRET FROM YOUR WAYWARD WIFE!
2 � Put a keylogger on any computer you can access that she might use.
3 � Put a spy program on any cell that she might use. (�Eblaster� can cover #4 as well.)
4 � Put a GPS on her car, reporting to your computer.
5 � Put a VAR in her car, and in any room she might use to take �personal� calls
6 � Get a mini-audio-recorder, and have it in your possession and �on� whenever in her presence.
7 � Put together an e-address list of anyone who might have influence on her � parents, siblings (sisters, especially), coworkers, college friends, clergy, hairdresser, anyone.
8 � Put together a similar list for the POSOM.
WHEN YOU HAVE SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE,
9 � Put together the electronic evidence for each AP.
10 - Write a cover note for your wife�s contacts, to the tune of: �I must unhappily inform you that my wife, XXXXXX, is carrying on an illicit affair with YYYYYY. I am hoping to recover our marriage, and ask if you have any influence over her, to urge her to abandon her cheating lifestyle and return to me and our family. Her cell number is 111-222-3333�
11 � Write a similar note to POSOM�s contacts.
12 � Send out both packages, to all contacts at one time.
13 � Brace yourself.

But here's a word of caution. Reading your initial posting, I doubt you've got the steel to win this one. Your view of your WW, and HER view of your marriage is romantically immature, dude.

• I dont know if shes considered a serial cheater because we were in an unstable long distance relationship when she was seeing several men.
• I thought I was going to die from lack of sleep and malnutrition.On top of that,my wife felt no remorse and even complained about how weak I was under these circumstances.
• I feel hopeless and helpless because my WW is not willing to end her affair.
• I wanted to give up...
• I didnt want to confront her because I wanted to so believe she is a changed woman,a loyal and faithful wife to her husband.
• But we are still going to church and she prays at bedtime.

Each of these lines indicates you have not grasped the full import and depth of your wife's betrayal. You are going to have to become a stern, judgemental, and dispassionate "infidelity destroyer" to win this one - and even that might be enough.

You are GOING to tell MIL, regardless of how sick she may be. You are GOING to risk your business with WW, regardless of the potential damage. You are GOING to make WW lividly angry, when you basically inform everybody in her world that she's a cheating slut. "Xtremepain" is what you WILL be compelled to bring down on others. These are FACTS, and all the side-by-side prayer in the world will not change them.

Now, are you SURE you can do all this?

When you expose to OMW, read her ONE of the messages. Not the worst one, but one "dirty enough" to get the message across.
Tell OMW that you have (number) of other messages, and some are very graphic.
Tell OMW you will share the messages with her if she determines she wants to read them. Have copies made and put them aside, in an envelope.
Give OMW your email address.

Legally, or are you common-law husband and wife? How long have you been married?

We are legally married for almost 20 years.




Thanks for all the advice.
My wife doesnt have many friends here.Actually,we are both new to this country we are currently residing.Most of her friends live in another country where the OM is.

Do you have children together?

What you are experiencing is another affair obviously but also false recovery. The pain of finding out that the cheater never changed and it was a lie.

If you choose to fight for your marriage, it is extremely critical to follow MB concepts to a T - you are dealing with a serial cheater and belief/trust that she can change from her word is simply not good enough (serial cheater or one-time cheater, it doesn't matter).

I understand you do not want to upset her elderly mother but she may be your greatest ally in this, especially if she is older/traditional. Obviously her friends are the enemy too - friends who support adultery cannot be maintained.

How did you end up in a new country? Was this a joint agreement/

Now, are you SURE you can do all this?

The very fact that you skipped over my difficult question, and answered MB's creampuff, basically provides the answer.

We have no children.Moving to a new country was a mutual agreement.

Did you read NG's thread?

You understand that being passive for all these years has lead to her walking all over you by cheating with multiple men... being passive will only lead to a continuation of the same insanity. Are you willing to do all it takes? And that means a lot more than just exposure.

I didnt mean to skip your question.......I am ready to expose to OM and his wife.I am not too sure about her mom yet.

One thing I may add is that the affair took place in a country where adultery is a crime and is punishable by a jail sentence of up to 1 year.Few goto prison,most of them just get a fine.So I am also concerned about the OMW filing charges against my wife.Perhaps I dont provide her with evidence that I have.But what if she doesnt believe me?

My plan is to expose and follow MB Plan A.

xtreme, you will need to expose the affair to your wife's mother and her close family members. And yes, you should give the OM's wife all of the evidence you have of the affair. She has a right to have it and you should not harm this woman by protecting your wife. Stop trying to protect your wife, it does not help her one bit.

Click on the link in my signature and develop your exposure plan. Come back here and tell us your plan and we can give you feedback.

And you don't need to expose the affair to the OM, he already knows he is having an affair. Just focus on exposing to his wife and his parents. Does the OM have a facebook page?

I know there are several posts that say that Plan A only works 15% of the time, but that was a misunderstanding. Dr Harley was trying to say that only 15% of affairs die when they are discovered. I would place the actual success rate of Plan A at 50%.

And secondly, since your wife is a serial cheater, it is going to take a serious nuclear exposure to wake up her. She has been wayward for a very long time and that can be attributed to secrecy of her past. When affairs are not exposed, the WS's tend to hang onto the fantasy. Exposing the affair tends to lift the fog and motivate the WS to make amends. Here is what Harley says about it:

here

The OM has a fb page.

I would copy and paste all his contacts into a word doc for safekeeping. Can you ID his wife and parents from his contact list? Does his wife have a Facebook page?

If you have been married for 20 years and she had been cheating while living in another country up until the year 2000, that not only means that she is a serial cheater, but that she has been cheating throughout AT LEAST HALF YOUR MARRIAGE.

This was not some kind of unstable on/of relationship. The two of you were married.

You might consider getting legal advice on the business thing, just in case.

God bless,

Happyheart

The Om fb page does not show his friends/contacts

My wife is planning a trip to visit the OM.I havent exposed to OMW yet as my case is a little complicated.I wish I could get some advice from Dr Haley.Is there anyway to email him ?
I have OMW 's fb page but I am afraid my exposure msg would be intercepted by OM becos OMW is not active on fb.As mentioned before,affair took place in a country where adultery is a criminal offense.BS often hire PI to collect incriminating evidence.I really really want and need to expose to OMW but I dont want her to prosecute my wife.Of course,I have the right to do the same to the OM .Should I warn my wife?Should I hire the PI myself and threaten the OM to get lost?
What should I do?

No just expose without warning your WW first.

If the OMW presses charges against your W she is entitled to do that. At worst it will keep your W out of the country where OM lives out of fear of this prosecution.

You will not gain much respect from your WW until you start to actively fight for your marriage and to do so you NEED to EXPOSE ASAP. No ifs buts or making allowances for any circumstances,

I say that you�ve been married to a serial cheater with no concept of what it means to be married. I think your self esteem must be in the pits since you haven�t walked away from this situation and have tolerated it for so long. You appear to be afraid to do what is necessary to end the affair.

My advice is to expose her far and wide and to everyone. Then walk away and examine yourself and figure out why you�ve tolerated this kind of treatment for 20 years. You have no kids together. You lose nothing by dumping her. It�s not like she was a good wife before the affair.

Why stay with her? What makes her so unique that you can�t get that with another woman? I ask these things ESPECIALLY given the fact that you have no kids.

My guess, looking at your info, is that you married young and don�t know any better than her. Well, women in their 30�s and 40�s are fantastic and you don�t have to settle for a serial cheater. When you take the attitude, �I will not settle for you� will be the moment you take control of this situation and get ahead.

Had a huge fight with her.She was complaining how difficult I am making everything to be.She told me to give up plan A but she is not ready to leave yet.She wants to spend more time with the OM.She did say she WILL eventually leave to be with the OM.Satan has taken over her and I am too weak to fight this.Should I just let go?I watched Fireproof and received a strong message that I should not give up this easily?Love the unlovable??.......

I sent friend request to OMW,no response.She is inactive on fb and I dont have her other contacts except fb.Should I contact OMWs'friends?Would they think I am crazy?

You didn't tell her that you were Plan Aing her did you?

If you are in Plan A, there shouldn't be ANY fighting.

Have you read everything you can on Plan A and Plan B?

I would contact OMW's friends, and ask them to have her contact you.

I told her about plan a plan b right from the beginning.....was I not supposed to??
I understand there shouldnt be any fighting in plan a but i lost it today because of her abusive behavior....thats why i dont know if i could continue plan Aing....shes just too much for me to handle.
I am just worried her OMWs'friends would contact the OM instead becos he's a popular guy with everyone.OM and his wife are the perfect model couple amongst their friends.

If I contact OMW friends,should I reveal the reason to them?

Of course you weren't supposed to tell her about Plan A and Plan B.


I would contact OMW's friends and say that you are an old friend who has lost contact and you wanted to get in touch with her. You could even make up a FAKE FB account, in case OM is told.

STOP TELLING YOUR WIFE THINGS YOU ARE GOING TO DO.

Think of yourself as a soldier, and your wife's affair is your enemy. Your WW is on the affair's side, helping your enemy.

Does your WW know that you post here?

This might be because you are talking to her and listening to her. Never do that with a wayward. She's drunk of her azz on the attention of two men. You can tell her what to expect and what your boundaries are, but dont engage in conversation with a drunk. You cant talk them sober.

Are you trying to persuade and educate her? Cant do that either.

No point in telling them your plans because they dont want to hear helpful things and will only use info for destruction.

She knows I post here but she doesnt care and bother to see what I post.All she has on her mind is the OM.We just came back from a short trip and seconds from returning home,she logs onto fb to chat with the OM....makes me sick to see her so obsessed like that.She told me she just cant help/control herself even tho she knows what she is doing is wrong.Is it BS that she really cant break free from the addiction of affair or she is just plain selfish?

Is there a reason you have not exposed this to the OMW?

Have you taken this advice? Or did I waste my time posting it?

Yes,I was trying to persuade her.I asked her why she says she and the OM are deeply in love despite they barely know each other.I also asked why she thinks they would be together forever even tho the OM is married and that if he could cheat on his wife,he could also cheat on her.Then my wife got very defensive and went berserk on me.After reading MB,my wife became so predictable to me.Sometimes she is shocked when I reveal what is on her mind and I often finish what she has to say.All that fog talk and wayward mentality are shared by all the other WS on the forum.Its like they all got possessed by the same demon.But she is telling me to cut her some slack because she is unable to control herself.She said she doesnt know why she is sooo attracted to the OM.And I told her I am also soooo attracted to our hot neighbor next door but you dont see me having sex with her!!!!!

Have you exposed this to OMW?

Please answer Melodylane' s questions. She's been giving you directions and you aren't following them.

I sent her a friend request.I will expose as soon as she accepts my request.I didnt want to send her the expo message becos I fear the msg would be intercepted by her husband.She is not active on fb and I have no other contacts of her.

I sent the friend request over a week ago,no response yet.Her fb page has not been updated for over a month.

If you have her name have you checked out intellius.com?

Have you checked out the operation investigate forum?

Your priority needs to be, to find OMW and expose.

So you are ignoring our posts and wasting our time? ok, good luck!

You need to stop wasting time and get ahold of the woman. There are many more ways to contact a person than facebook. You need to move your [censored] and expose this affair. Sitting here waiting for WEEKS for a facebook message is ludicrous.

This seriously pisses me off when people come here and ask for help and then ignore every thing we say. This takes valuable time away from MY OWN PERSONAL LIFE.

Do you mean I shouldnt be fighting and persuading her?

I know I shouldnt but I lost it at certain points.I will try to do a better job in Plan A.

I am not ignoring anything.I tried very hard to get a hold of her.I am OPEN to advices!!Tell me what other options I have!!!
She lives in another country.If I could go meet her in person,I would!!!!!WHAT are you suggesting??I am faced with a set of difficult unique circumstances here.I googled her name for hours!!!

WHAT many other ways to contact a person who lives in another country!!!??????Like I said,I am open to any suggestions!!!!

If you want people to post to you, you have to respond to our posts. We can't help you if you ignore our posts. I am leaving for lunch and an afternoon with my husband.

Have you checked out the operation investigate forum?

How about intellus.com, peoplesearch?

How about through your WW facebook to get the WH friends that may be related to his BW, a SIL?

Did you ever contact OMW's friends like Scotland suggested?

A relative from the OM that can give you contact information? Can you view her email from Facebook info?

Let's see. If you expse to O.MW.:
! You do the right thing
! Maybe OM faces consequences
! Maybe the location of OM becomes off limits for WW
! Maybe WW faces consequences

Sounds strategic

If all else fails as far as getting her contact info, you could hire a pi in om country or go to other country yourself and track down the information for exposure targets.

I've spent countless hours searching for any shred of info about the omw.Her fb doesnt show her friends or email contact.The only thing that came up on google,yahoo was a business she owned years ago that no longer exists.intelius.com is just for the US,no use for me.I tried statusbin and other search sites but to no avail.I did manage to find some people ,which I believe to be friends of OMW on fb.
My options:1.continue to wait for omw acceptance of my friend request.2.just send the expo letter via private message to omw despite the possibility of interception by om.3.make up a fake fb acct to contact whom i believe to be omw's friend.but what should the message be to avoid suspicion?friends of om and omw all think om is the perfect loving husband.I fear contacting the wrong person ,giving the om the chance to prepare for the expo attack.4.last resort which i dont really want to use,hire a PI to gather evidence to prosecute the om .the cons of this option is the omw may use the evidence to prosecute my wife as well.PI fee is costly and the their practice is questionable with ethic issues .Some are just plain con artists.

I am barely functioning everyday.I am limping thru life trying to muster up what little strength i have..... no amount of prozacs could help me deal with the shxt i have.........on top of all this,a close family member is in critical health condition,affair is starting to affect business since she is also my biz partner,this is taking a toll on my health as well......... so if you cant show some compassion and consider the extreme challenges I have then DONT waste your valuable time taken away from YOUR PERSONAL LIFE to reply here!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We are showing compassion.

And every single person on this forum who has posted to you- has been through the same chaos. The same. So please- take a breath, take a step, and look back at the great advice you have been given. Already given. That is compassionate.

I truly truly appreciate everyone and all their advices .People have given me many different advices here but I still need to strategize to come up with a plan that applies to my unique sitch.I didnt ignore any advice here.Just becos I didnt act on a particular advice,or act on it immediately,does not mean I dont give a hoot about it.My sitch is different,OM n his wife lives in another country.Its easier to search n track down people in the US .It took me days to compose that expo letter due to my poor proficiency in that language.I certainly couldnt ask my wife for help.I had to struggle with the language barriers in searching/locating the omw in a foreign country.If I could contact omw in person,I would....I am even considering flying there but i dont have their address nor workplace....
Its always easy to dispense advice than to take them.

And it's always easier to ignore advice than it is to take it, isn't it? People here want to help you but we can't do the foot work for you. You have to do the work and you have to try other ways if your first way doesn't work. It's real important that you figure out how to get ahold of the OMW. Even if you have to hire a PI to do it, you can't just stop trying. Keep trying and don't stop until you expose the affair. This is critical to your success.

And do yourself a favor, if people here take the time out of their lives to post to you, have the courtesy of responding to their posts. Otherwise, they get the impression, as I did, that you are ignoring them.

It is easier to dispense advice than to take it

Here's the thing- on here? People are telling you to do things that they have already had to do.

So, yeah - we walk the talk we give you. Join us, won't you?

EP, I am trying to understand what makes your situation "unique?" When I read your original post, in most respects, I was reading my own situation except that I was the BW and my now ex- husband, the WH. Same story otherwise....met back up after many years due to reunion website; he lived/lives in the US, she lives in their home country; he/she traveled back and forth to see each other; they maintained their relationship via online means (FB didn't exist at that time), etc., etc.

Nothing makes your situation "unique" from any other. The basis principles everyone is suggesting apply exactly the same to your situation as they do to any other.

I thank all of you from the bottom of my heart.I will forever be grateful for your help and support no matter what the outcome is.
Believe me,even with all this frustration I am trying hard to locate the omw.I know exposing to her is vital to saving my marriage.Altho the desire to save is diminishing day by day.I am really tired.....just wanna forget everything and let them be....

Can you afford the PI? If so I would try that. I would also send requests to the friends of OM and OMW to jump start there.

Have you tried this tactic? Backdoor to seeing info on Facebook

Brain,I have tried this tactic...I set up faux acct ,be friended a bunch of OM's friends,hoping to get info abt the OMW.I am waiting for OMWs acceptance of my friend request.I didnt want to expo to OM's friends b4 I first expo to OMW .I am praying that she logs on and accepts my request.

Should my expo letters include info such as my wife having multiple affairs in the past?

I would use the exposure format from here Facebook exposure letters

xtremepain,
I was in your same boat with one of the BW because her facebook was locked down tight. I made a faux facebook account and friended her WH and sent a bunch of requests to friends and family of her and her WH and one finally responded to me with email info for her the BW. I knew the WH was having an affair and I wanted to let his BW know.

How did you manage to get one of them to respond back with the email info?

I wanted to let the OM know my wife has cheated before....would that seem like I am bad mouthing and being vindictive?

I sent them a message saying I had "information about BW's marriage that I feel she needs to know". I took the chance that they would run and forwarn the WH but they didn't. Someone responded and gave me the email and I emailed the BW and she was very thankful for the information. Then she told her WH and all h*ll broke loose. I even gave her a link to the MB website and told her names of the OW and everything. Apparently she was aware and didn't want to do anything about it.

I would wait on informing the OM about your WW's other affairs, he probably knows and doesn't care or won't care anyway because he has probably done the same thing.

I would just focus on exposing to OM's BW and your WW's family and friends, and your family and close friends.

xtremepain, expose the affair to the OM's friends and family and ask them to contact the OMW to call you. That is one way you can expose to her.


In your letters to your own side, you can tell them about her previous affairs but focus mainly on her current affair.

extreme, go read the sample letters in my signature. http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2566583#Post2566583 When you email the OM's friends and family, send something like this:

FB exposure letters to OP's contacts

Should be done to the OP�s facebook friends via private message. This is a very, very effective exposure because it is a collection of the OP�s closest friends and family. SPACE THE PM�S OUT 60 SECONDS APART SO FB DOES NOT SHUT YOU DOWN FOR FLOODING. Before you begin, copy and paste all the contacts into a WORD doc. Change your fb picture to a picture of you and your spouse and children.

Dear friend of JoeScumbag:

It grieves me to write this letter but I believe all of his friends should know the kind of person he really is. Joe is having an affair with my wife, Sally, that started last September. I believe that his family and friends should know this, so you can protect your marriage from him. My wife and I have 2 small daughters and this affair has almost wrecked our marriage.

I would be happy to provide the evidence to anyone who asks.

I would appreciate it if someone would notify his wife and parents and ask them to call me at xxx-www-xxxx.

Thank you, BH

Exactly what I was trying to say. Thanks Melodylane.

I shouldnt wait to expo to omw first???What if OM's friends stand on his side and help cover up?My WW told me he is very popular and likeable amongst his friends.
Should I use the faux fb acct or my own ?

Did you read my post? Use your own fb account and expose under your own name. Give them your email address and your phone #.

Can you tell if any of the OM's facebook friends are his wife's family members? I would specially target any of those because they will hopefully call her and let her know.

I couldnt distinguish the family members of his wife.The OM actually has his friend list locked down as well.I could only copy the post comments made by his friends and be friended some of them with my faux acct.OK,need to lie down for awhile....need to clear my head ....

You don't need to friend anyone. Just go to their facebook pages and send them a private message. do you see the contact list of the OMW? If so, send them all private messages. You don't need to be anyone's friend to do that.

If you have the contact list of the OMW, then you have an ace in the hole. Do you have her contact list?

I hope after your rest you will feel refreshed and take Melodylane's advice on exposing to OM's friends/family and ask them to contact his BW or give you the contact info.

You will feel alot of anxiety and stress as you're doing the exposure, but then you will feel a huge weight lifted.

Trust us, we understand how stressful it can be. Your WW will be angry, but remember your M can withstand her anger but not her affairs.

Unfortunately I dont have the contact list of OMW.I opened a faux fb and added some of OM's friends hoping to find out if any of them could be family of OM or OMW.I didnt want to expose to OM's friends first becos like I said in my previous posts,I fear they will help him cover up and forewarn the OMW.Lots of OMs friends are cheaters themselves.I dont want to give the OM the chance to prepare for the expo.I am also making arrangements to the business before exposure in case crazy WW goes berserk and wreak havoc.She is capable of doing anything now...would have never thought in a million years that I need to protect myself from her.

Xtremepain,

Above Melodylane gave you excellent direction. I know you're scared to expose and some of his friends may spin the story to him, but you'll never know until you have tried.

I do understand about your business though. I would do whatever you need to protect yourself for your business.

Have you thought about calling the MBradio show and asking the Harley's for direction also? While you wait?

I emailed the radioshow 2 weeks ago.No response.

Email again because sometimes Joyce doesn't get the emails.

One of my emails she responded in a day and one of mine she didn't and I had to email again.

Try again.

I was just reading up on the OM fb.A friend of his posted some new age babble of what love really is....something along the line of love being just a feeling and enjoy it while it lasts without regrets.....blah blah.....and everyone liked it!I actually think the OM would the envy of the group when I expose to his friends.

Ok,i will email again

How is your exposure coming along?

That sounds like waywards patting each other on the back. Don't try to understand it because you will never understand a wayward's mind of thinking. It isn't rational at all.

Good job on emailing the show again. If you put your phone number in then you can be a caller and actually talk with them.

Hopefully, you have pored over the OM's fb wall and collected a list of his contacts. Have you done this? Have you IDed any of his family members and gone to their pages and looked for other family members?

Are you working on this?

I collected a list from his fb wall.There are hundreds of them.I did go over many of their pages.....but couldnt ID any of his family.Mostly just friends.

And you didn't see his wife on any of them?

Have you started the exposure?

I didnt see his wife on any of them.His wife never posted on his fb.
The business arrangements I am making should be done this week.So I plan to expose after that.
I think I may have located a family member of OMW....should I ask her to give me the contact info of OMW for urgent matters or should I just tell her about the affair upfront?

Tell the family member about the affair and ask her to have the OMW call you.

What are these business arrangements that are causing another delay in your exposures?

WW is also my biz partner.I am worried she will wreak havoc when she finds out about the expo.I just want to prepare for the storm.I've been warned over and over again by people who got burned in similar sitch.She is completely unremorseful.She is capable of doing anything.I cant believe I would have to protect myself from someone who Ive known for 20+years.I am losing faith in everything.

I wish I could detach myself emotionally and go straight to Divorce!!!

I understand how hard this is for you, my friend!

How are you doing?

I am ok,thanks brain &melody and everyone with their support.Been really depressed last couple days.WW planning a trip to visit the OM soon.Shes so happy now which makes me sick.Sometimes its hard to believe theres any chance of R.
I sent a msg to a woman i believe to be OMWs relative.I took melodys advice n told her about the affair.I was going to just say its an urgent matter.I didnt want to reveal too much....maybe I am being too paranoid but I would be suspicious to whoever that replies since it would be hard to verify the ID of that person overseas.
Just found out OM works in a university.
Please pray for me,thanks.

should i continue to snoop?I cant take it....makes me real sick knowing their plans to meet up to do their shameless deeds

Did you hear anything back from this person? Did you check this persons FB for more possible relatives for the BW?

University huh? Did you go to this university's website to look for info on OM to maybe give you more help in contacting his BW?

What are you going to do to crash this little getaway they are planning?

Have you been to your Dr. To get on some AD?

You've got to keep moving or you will let this affair destroy you. I know it's anxiety to snoop. Hell, I still have it when I look at the phone bill and we share the phone that I have 95% of the time.

You have to fight to kill this affair. Can you do that? If it hurts too much to snoop do you have a friend or relative help you?

Theres nothing I could to crash their getaway.
I sent the message out to OMWs friend and I am sure she received it.But no response yet.I sent it 24hr ago.I dont know whats going on....maybe she is in denial?
If OMW ignores me,then i dont think I have much to kill the affair.
I got some prozacs from my doc.

Lord Jesus, thank you for Your servant xtremepain. Thank you that he loves yYu and wants to know that You are there and caring for him no matter what. When the times seem at their darkest Father, You are there.

Father I pray You touch xtremepain and give him the peace beyond understanding. A calmness of spirit and a clear head.

In Your Name Lord
Amen.

Thank you Lord.Thanks lildoggie.

What do you mean there is nothing you can do to crash their getaway?

You go with her. That's what I did.

How many other requests did you send besides the one request to the BW's maybe relative?

I just sent the msg to the relative.I am sure she got the msg becos she updated her fb page.Maybe BW is in denial....
I could go with her but what good would that do?She could still spend time with the OM leaving me in the hotel.

How can she leave you in the hotel if you go everywhere she goes?

I am planning to go with her but I dont think she would let me go everywhere she goes.I have thought about being with her 24/7 but not practical....it would just get ugly.

I just found out if the person you are sending a msg to is not a friend on your fb,the msg gets sent to a subfolder instead of the main folder where msgs from friends are stored.I just checked and found many old msgs from way b4 in my subfolder.All these msgs are from people who arent my fb friends.I believe my msg to the OMW's friend was missed and is stored in her subfolder .

So you can't be the best H in plan A when you're with her?
When she gets up to say " she's going to get her hair done".

You say " fantastic, I'll go with you and get my hair trimmed also, oh we will have so much fun and then I'll take you to lunch". " You ready?"

Dr. Harley talks on the radio show how he goes with Joyce to the mall with her.

I would go with her and follow her wherever she goes. If she gets annoyed, continue to be pleasant. Not saying it will be easy, but worth a try if you can do it.

i really dont know how I could manage to do that....she planned this trip just for the OM.She already told me she is going to see him.She wants me to arrive a few days later.Sometimes I think I am too good of an H during this plan A.How do you do plan A with boundaries??In this case,I have no say in this trip whatsoever.

One of the OMWs friend just responded and said he did not want to get involved.He thinks its awkward that I would contact him for help.The others never responded.I think OMW is in denial.I feel so exhausted....

Sorry to hear that xtremepain. There are alot of people in society that "don't want to get involved" when someone asks them to take a stand. Try not to let that get you down.

Read this for some inspiration to be the lighthouse
Here is another Notable Posts by Pep

Also I would plan on going on that trip and making it very difficult to meet up with OM. Say to yourself "not on my watch will you be meeting with the enemy". Just be as pleasant as a little girl with a lollipop.

Patience and hard work my friend. Keep going.

What is wrong with these people??Another friend of OMW just replied and said she doesnt want to hurt OMW by telling her!!!!She said I should resolve with my wife and that she doesnt see how OMW can help us.

That person is obviously stupid. Telling OMW is a good thing, she deserves to know what is going on!

did Dr Harley ever addressed the issue where the BS is in denial and refuses to confront their WS about the affair?I sent OMW tons of msgs and still no response.

Unfortunately, sometimes the OMW will bury their head in the sand. Your best bet is NOT to leave messages but wait for an answer from her directly. IE, when you call, wait for HER to answer. Or send a certified letter.

This seems like a hopeless case....I think I am forced to give up.
I dont have a mailing address to send the letter to.
I seriously think the OMW is in denial.All her friends are telling me to just work on my wife and there is no need to get her or anyone involved.

Do you have OM BW's phone number? Can you get it? This is your best bet... or maybe a certified letter.

I am taking it from your posts that the only means of contact you have with this BW is FB. Try other means. If you seriously can not get in touch any other way, send a FB friend request. I have learned recently that when you click on a FB friend request (as I did to check if I knew the person or not) the messages then pop up. This may lead to the BW actually seeing your message.

Still, your best bet is to try other means of contact. This woman needs to know, and you need to exhaust every avenue to let her know.

Yes the only contact I have is FB.She lives in another country.
But like I said,I think she is in denial becos her friends claimed they have told her to reply to my email.But so far,no response.Some of her friends said they think she knows already.
They are all telling me to let go.The only support I get is from this forum.I am at wits end.....

Thinking is different to knowing. She may not have taken you seriously... who knows? I had a friend telling me my WH was having an affair and I still instinctively wanted to believe my WH. It was reflex, I had never previously had reason to question him. Some BS's will deny, and are too scared to seek the truth. It does not mean they don't want or deserve the truth.

Have you googled her? It can be suprising what google reveals. Helping a friend with her WH's OW, I managed to find out OW BH's office, phone number and email address.

What other efforts will you make to contact her?

Yes,thats what I said to them.I told them they were just assuming she knows.They dont want to deal with me anymore.I strongly suspect OMW told them to say what they said.They just brushed me off and asked me to work on my wife instead.
I have exhausted all options to look her up.Google,yahoo,all the other search sites....nothing turned up.

OM suddenly deleted his fb!!!No contact with WW for a whole day which is very odd since they chat every single day.On my previous posts,I mentioned I sent OMW an expo letter but no response.Perhaps she did receive the letter afterall??I told OMW they are planning for a getaway the end of the month.I am picturing in my head the havoc the expo letter has created for the OM.

XP,

Even OMWs who have been beaten down by a lifetime of self-denial, lies and depression have a breaking point. I've seen this so many times. Hopefully you've done your part to release OMW from her hell of a marriage.

God Bless
Gamma

Scumbag OM told his BW that nothing happened between he and my WW.He denied PA and said he was just flirting around.I am afraid his BW might just buy his Bullsxxt!!! I know he will continue the affair and go deeper underground.OM and WW wont give up that easily.Yesterday,just as I was about to throw in the towel,God answered my prayer!I thought OMW was in denial and all her friends didnt want to deal with me .They said I was too needy for contacting everyone for help.

Where did this info come from?

A friend of OMW.At first,she didnt want to get involved and said I should work on my wife instead of going crazy asking strangers online to help with my marital problems.She left me a message telling me what the OMW told her.So far,OMW still hasnt communicated with me. I was told OM and his BW will reconcile but I think sneaky OM will go behind BW's back.

WW is very distressed now since OM deleted his fb and vanished into thin air.He didnt pick up his phone.Everyone from the reunion are trying figure out what happened on the group fb.Should I come out and tell them what happened?Is there anything else I could do?What makes WW feel guilty and show true remorse?

I'm a bit confused about what is going on... How do you know WW is distressed about OM deleting his fb and not answering his phone? I am hopeful that exposure may be taking effect... POSOM has bigger problems at the moment than answering his phone and his BW is laying down the rules for recovery (hence fb being deleted).

I also don't follow about you telling others about exposure... did you expose to all? How do some not know you exposed? I never denied exposure. I explained I was fighting for my marriage and what I believed in. And asking for support in doing so. People largely respected this. Even when I exposed to skanks's side, overall (bar two enablers) people respected this or chose to ignore it.

As for what makes WW feel guilty and show true remorse... you can't control her. By exposing and following Plan A, and if needed, Plan B, you are giving your marriage the best chance of recovery. And yourself, if your WW does not wake up in time.

WW told me about OM deleting fb.I can tell she is troubled by the sudden disappearance.OMW also sent a friend request to my wife.I dont know why OMW would not accept my friend request.She never returned any of my msg but yet,she wants to contact WW....can anyone make any sense out of that?Why is she avoiding to work with me?I told her we could share intelligence.WW does not care nor want to make contact with OMW.
Everything started at this reunion and they have a fb page.They are trying to figure out what had happened to OM.I didnt exposed to the reunion people because these are the enablers.They encouraged WW to have the affair.Many of them are cheaters themselves.I saw some very unsettling pics taken at their reunion parties and gathering .They are now trying to help WW locate OM by going to his workplace.OM told a friend his fb was hacked.
WW has plans to visit OM at the end of the month.I warned her that she could be prosecuted for adultery with a jail sentence.Adultery is a criminal offense in the country where the affair took place.She took my warning today with a huge fit!She went berserk and we both lashed out.Was it not ok to warn her?Did that seem like a threat to her?You think I should still expo to the reunion group becos perhaps not everyone are enablers?If affair ends during plan A but WW shows no remorse and has no intention to R,then what happens?Should I still goto Plan B then?

OMW just sent a message to WW.She forwarded all my msgs to WW.She is furious now!!!!What is OMW thinking???!!!She is moving out tomorrow!!Did this backfire?

Xtremepain,

A 2 year old will react the same when you don't let them pull a dog's tail or stick their hand in the oven. They won't like it. Doesn't mean it's not for the greater good and a lesson on proper consequences.

Should I just let her move out?

I am sooo confused why OMW fwded all msgs to WW...does anyone know why????why???

WW is very angry now.She wants to move out.She changed all her passwords.Its going to be even harder to snoop now.She uses a tab with android as os.No programs for that yet.A friend of OMW said OM will never contact my wife again.Should I continue to expose?Her mom still doesnt know.Her mom is very old...I dont know what she'll do when she finds out more ppl will know.She is also my biz partner so this is going to be real hard on me.
She wants to binge drink herself to death.She is the type of destructive person that I have no control over.I am aware of the withdrawal but what can I do now?Just let her be???

It could possible be that OM BW is in denial and she just wants to let your WW know that she knows.
Good job on letting the POSOM's BW know. Who else can you expose to? WW's mother??

The BH in my case said he couldn't keep in contact with me anymore because it was too painful for him to know all the lies his WW was telling him.

Keep on keeping on.

Yes your WW will be furious because you took her drug away from her.

Did you get some legal advice on protecting yourself with the business? If she moves out, how can you stop her? She can go if she wants to, correct?

You needed to do all the exposure at once. Trickle exposure can hurt you.
You need to get yourself protected legally with the business.
Can you afford a call to Steve Harley?

When your WW is angry, just keep repeating "I will do everything in my power to save our M. Do you want a cookie?"

I didnt expose to WW mother.I dont know what WW would do if her mom knows....U think I should still expo to her 80 yr old mom?she just found out I expo to OMW and she stormed out after drinking a bottle of wine.I ve never been able to handle her destructive behavior.
Yes,I think u r right about OMW being in denial.Cos OM told her nothing really happened and maybe she believed him.I didnt do the expo all at once.Her mom who doesnt use a computer lives in another country.Only a letter could be sent.But I am really having 2nd thoughts about sending that letter now.WW blew up and she's purposely hurting herself to make me feel guilty.
How much is a phone call to the Dr?Not sure if I could afford it now,the affair affected everything around us.I am losing faith.

She just came back.She is all wet from the rain and crying.I was like that for weeks after DDay.Is there anything I could during this time?Just put up with her for now?It hurts to see her in pain over the OM.

A session with Steve Harley is $195 check it out MB coaching center or you can write a letter to the radio show which is free, here Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com

Also is your WW an alcoholic?

Can you call WW's mom and tell her over the phone? Yes your WW will be angry, but you can survive her anger but your M can't survive her affair.

She's angry because your exposuring is working.

You're in Plan A so yes there is.

You go to her and give her a hug and say I know you're hurting and I'm sorry for your pain, but we can get through this together and I will do whatever it takes to fight for our M.

OM deleted his fb.WW was distressed becos she couldnt reach OM.OMW forwarded all my msgs to WW and tried to add WW as friend.WW found out I had been sending out these expo msgs to friends of OMW.I 'm still confused as to why OMW contacting WW and refuses to accept my friend request.She never replied to any of my msg.Is she mad at me telling her friends,embarrassing her?Anyway,WW went ballistic.I thought I was prepared for the aftermath of my expo,but I guess I wasnt.WW became extremely destructive.She packed up to move out .She drank almost an entire bottle of wine and walked out in the middle of night.She came back an hour later and started breaking everything in the house!!I restrained her but she fought me and continued with her destructions.She asked me to take her life,she didnt want to live.I told her she should leave on the next flight and not come back again.I meant it .At that moment,I was ready to let her go for good.I didnt care about plan abc,I just wanted her out of my life. I didnt know how to deal with her demonic state so I went back to my room before I lost my mind and do something I would regret.This was one of the worst day of my life.I prayed intensively to God asking for guidance.I told God this is way beyond what I could handle and that if God doesnt intervene,then I guess this is it.She leaves and I wont want to see or hear from her again.We slept for a few hours.We woke up the next day and she was still very angry.She asked me for the password to my email.I declined becos thats where I stored all my expo letters.She was furious and cried .....then suddenly,she collapsed and started saying how dumb she had been.She blamed herself for trusting the OM.She also said she knows I've been trying to protect her.What a sudden turn of events.All this took me by surprise..even til now.Its so surreal and happened so fast,i still cant wrap my head around it.Its been more than 24 hours since the fog lifted.But I dont believe the fog is 100% gone.Shs still has feelings for him.I asked for no contact,she said ok but if OM contacts her,she would "try" to ignore OM.She said she doenst know if she could it .She still shows no remorse.She never apologized about the affair.She is uncertain about her feelings but she told me she doesnt want to move out and is willing to work on herself(not us).She immediately deleted her reunion fb but refused to delete her own fb and email.OM is not on her friend list on her personal fb.
Will the fog come back?How do I make sure it doesnt?Wife is always complaining,badmouthing the OM to me.Should I engage in these conversation with her?Does plan A end when affair is over?If affair ends but wife and I are not ready to R,what now?I did the trickle expo,not wide and far enough.It happened so fast,I didnt have time to expo to the OM side and wifes mom.Should I continue to expo but state that the affair is over and I just want people to know it happened?I am scared out of my mind OM and wife will contact each other.....would more expo help?I often hear ppl breaking NC and false R.How to prevent them contacting each other?Is it possible to R when wife is not remorseful?Sorry for so many questions.I am still very lost.

xtreme, your WW is still very foggy and addicted to OM. It sounds like his wife locked him down. Don't be concerned with the how or why of her actions. The fact that he has shut down his FB and has not contacted your WW makes it clear that his wife is working on her side. Work on yours.

Think: how can he contact your WW? Cell phone? Change her number. Facebook? Watch her every time she is on there since she's refusing - for now - to get rid of it. It's eventually going to have to go, though. Snail mail? Rent a post office box and you keep the key and pick up the mail.

When she starts babbling about how OM is the love of her life and you've ruined it, say "I love you and will do whatever it takes to save our marriage." When she starts harping about what a lousy human/husband/man you are, say "I understand that you are upset right now. But I will do whatever it takes to save our marriage." Then she'll say some idiotic thing like "Well, you've done it now! I'll never trust you again!" (the irony of that one always cracks me up) or "I hate you - you've embarrassed me!" Ignore all of this and don't let it upset you. You took away her drug and she's going through withdrawal. It's what addicts do.

Don't give away any of your snooping tools, and don't talk to her about Marriage Builders right now. This is going to be hard, but YOU need to present yourself to her as steady and sure in your actions. You're going to be her lighthouse to guide her back home.

The only ways OM could contact my wife is via fb ,cell phone and email.I have her cell phone now.I guess I dont need to expo anymore since the affair is over....or too early to say...?Makes me so anxious just thinking my wife could get back into the fog again.
I am not in Plan A nor in R.So what happens now?

Brainhurts. to answer your question..wife used to be an alcoholic 15 years ago.

Who have you not exposed to at this point?

Alcoholics are and will always be an alcoholic. So if she feel off the wagon. Will she get into a program? Are you in ALANON?

Dr. Harley recommends seperation with an alcoholic. I think you need to prepare for Plan B.

Read these Alcoholic spouse 1
Alcholoic #2

I just exposed to friends of OMS.But they are also friends of OM.WW closest friends already know.Was gonna send out a letter to her mom.Her mom does not use a computer and lives in another country.
update:OM reinstated his fb!!

Sure he did. He's now aware that you are exposing and wants to be in a position to defuse your exposure and to find out exactly who knows. He can't do that without access to his friends. Good job!

I dont think she fell off the wagon ....it was the 1st time she drank in 15 years.I guess the pain of withdrawal was just too much to her.I dont know what plan I am in right now. Melody mentioned that plan A ends if the affair is over but I read from other members that one should remain in plan A even when affair is over.
I didnt make any demands.She volunteered to do the following.She is willing to send nc letter to the reunion group.She couldnt send one to OM cos his fb is deleted again.He reinstates it and closes it several times.She lets me have access to all her email,fb...She will be totally honest with me about everything,she will tell me if OM contacts her.She doesnt want to move out now.However,she is not showing much remorse and she said she has no desire to recommit to our marriage at the moment.
What are signs that W is defogging?Whats my strategy now?Am I in plan A?Recovery plan?

I would like to know how long I should wait before she makes a decision to recommit or not to our marriage .Should I just be patient and wait til she is ready ?

She will not recommit if she is still foggy. It could take up to two years to reconnect and that is usually with a remorseful spouse.

Have you read this?
Inside the Wayward Mind

Have you read these articles?
Dr. Harley states in one of these instances to Plan A for 6 months and at that deadline if she hasn't stopped her affair to proceed to the next step.

But, if at the end of six months, she refuses to stop seeing her lover and doesn't seem to be responding to your efforts, tell her that you can't take the pain any longer and move out of your house. I recommend that you don't talk to her, don't see her, do whatever the law requires, but no more. The last thing she will remember of you is how kind you were to her, and how hard you tried to make her happy. Never say a harsh word to her, but when you leave, gently tell her that you do not wish to talk to her again. It's tough to carry out, with two children. But if at all possible, have your friends or family mediate so that you don't talk to her when you see your children.



Unfaithful Wife #1
Unfaithful Wife #2
Unfaithful Wife #3
Unfaithful Wife #4

Please listen to these radio clips from Dr. H about exposure to a BH and his WW is having an EA.

1st Radio Clip

2nd Radio Clip on Exposure and Plan A for the BH

3rd Segment fo Radio Clip

Exposure to the OMW has ended the affair....for now.OM and W deactivated their fb.No contact since last Thursday.But evil friends of W sent her a phone number and I know W is contemplating calling that number.She said she would be open and honest about everything but she didnt tell me about the number.I guess she is not totally out of the fog which worries me.She is willing to end the affair but she has no desire to recommit to our marriage.She said she has fallen out of love.Is this common with the W right after the affairs?Is this just temporary or our marriage is over even though the affair is dead?

Should I confront her about the phone number?I dont want her to know I've been snooping....at least the source that I got it from.

Just found out the phone number belongs to OM.Apparently,OM told a friend of W that he just got a new number.I said I wanted to tell OMW about this but W said he never intended for her to call.I hate these evil friends of W.I asked her to cut them out but she is reluctant too.

Really? Well then what was the intent? Of course you need to expose this to OMW. Why are you discussing this with your own WW? Stop warning about exposure. You are only playing into their hands by giving them time to get their stories straight and spin the truth.

Just until your WW could get his new number. Sorry xtremepain...they are trying to take it underground. The affair is not over. Keep your eyes on her.

Call OM's BW and let her know that your WW has his new number.

W deleted his number and sent a message back to her friend asking her not to talk to her about the OM again.She told this wicked friend that she has been hurt and have caused so much pain to us but her evil friend still tried to pull her back in.She didnt tell me any of this.I found out by snooping.In a way,I am glad she did all this on her own.But she wasnt open and honest about everything.I confronted her and she said she didnt tell me becos she was able to handle it and didnt want me worried.

W told me OM never asked her friend to tell my W.He simply got a new number,thats all.So I dont know if its any of my business to tell OMW.
W still visits OM's blog.
She said shes not sure if she could recommit to our marriage again.

Ah I see. She tells you are a baby not able to handle the truth and you are supposed to buy that? People never lie to protect others! Its always pure and simple to keep people ignorant. 'I didn't want to hurt you' is a wayward mantra. Makes lying easier.


You'd want to know, wouldn't you? Tell her the story, tell her your wifes excuses, adding that of course you're not taking her word for anything and let her arm herself against the potential danger. She may know stuff too that you could do with hearing.



Unacceptable and let her know it. She'll be retriggered each visit and will never withdraw this way. Is there any way you can stop the internet access until she is behaving or through withdrawal?

OK.

Here's my advice based on what yo share here on MB.
Go see a divorce attorney.
Find out exactly what your rights are.
Specifically ask what you can do THIS WEEK to protect yourself financially.
Then, do it.
If it helps your case, file for divorce (or separation).
Get all the data you need to make smart choices.
Do not wait until the 11th hour and your WW has run amuk with the family finances to discover how to protect yourself.

WW is in full-blown selfish mode.
Never trust her to do the right thing.

NOW is the time to take steps to protect yourself.

Those steps do not mean you are ending efforts to save your M.
But, you should not sacrifice your life on the alter of WW's bloated sense of "me me me".

Here's what happened: OMW told OM to end all contact. Being thoroughly busted and not wanting to lose his own wife, he got a new number to show her his commitment. Because he is a lying, nasty adulterer, he knew that your WW has a nasty, skanky 'friend' who might help him keep his connection with his OW (your WW.) He made his connection through your WW's skanky little friend (she needs to be deep-sixed immediately, by the way.)

You should be calling his wife YESTERDAY to let her know what he is up to. There should be NO contact, direct or otherwise, from him.

Brainhurts,
W said the affair is over and she doesnt want to aggravate OMW becos she is a very unstable woman.W said its her skanky friends fault for giving her the number.OM never asked her to.OM got a new number becos his BW made him cut all contacts with the reunion group.So he secretly got a new # and gave it to W's friend who is part of the reunion group.

And THAT'S why you have to tell OMW that your W has his new number and how she got it.

Indiegirl,W promised she will not visit OMs blogs until withdrawal is over.I have trouble believing that.

Pepperband,
I've taken some measures to protect myself somewhat.But its tricky since she is my biz partner.If i file for D or separation,wouldnt it be harder to save M if she decides to move out?I've read from other posts that W will come around when withdrawals is over in 3-6 weeks.Hard to believe that for me at the moment seeing how she is behaving.She said she has fallen out of love and prefers to be just biz partners/family.It was painful when she told me she is only staying for the biz even tho the affair is over.
Maritalbliss,
Her skanky evil friend is also a cheater,her BH left her with the kids becos she was trying to steal someone elses H!But my W is reluctant to cut her off.

BB,my wife deleted his number immediately .She sent msg back to her fd asking her not to do that ever again.I found out by snooping.I confronted her and she told me she didnt tell me becos it had nothing to do with the OM.It was her friend who was trying to screw with her.W said she will be totally open and honest from now on.I still wanted to tell OMW but I couldnt handle another episode of W reacting to expo.It was like a scene from the Exorcist.

If your WW is actually serious about what she's saying, then she won't give two rips about you telling the OMW. However, if she does react like she did before then you'll know she's been BSing you the entire time and had no intentions of ending contact with OM.

Besides, OMW has a right to know what her WH has tried to pull. How would you like it if she had knowledge of your WW trying to make contact and didn't tell you about it?

Altho I am skeptical at times,I do believe W has no intentions to make contact with OM this time becos I snooped and saw the deleted msgs proofing W's innocence.W is in great fear becos OMW is a very unstable woman who would do anything to keep her H(OM) by her side.Thats why W didnt want to aggravate her.OM could easily say that he has no intention to make contact and its not any of our business that he has gotten a new number.Even her amoral shameless friend said it was her idea and not the OMs to give her the number .

Has she had anymore to drink?

Have you read what Dr. H says about addicts who keep slipping back?

Radio clip on alcoholic who keeps slipping

So you will not call the OM's BW about the new number? You don't want the extra eyes to help make sure there's true NC?

Will your WW write a NC letter?
Did you secure up your financial business ties?

Xtreme,

Take it from someone who lived through countless false recoveries, you have to assume they have not cut off contact. My XH and his OW were great at playing the game and finding alternative routes of communication. It doesn't matter if your wife deleted everything. Like Tiger said, if your WW flies off the handle, it means she's not serious about recovery and is hiding continued contact. Also, if the tables were turned wouldn't you want to know your W wasn't abiding by no contact? OMW needs to know that he has given his new number out to people in the Reunion group because that will help YOU keep him away from your WW...and yes, she is WW because she hasn't yet earned the FWW.

BH,
She promised she wont drink again and she hasnt been drinking since that crazy night.WW wrote a NC letter and asked her skanky friend to post in on the reunion fb but she keeps saying she will but has not so far.WW couldnt post becos she deactivated her fb and she has no other ways to contact OM.OM also closed down his fb but he would reopen it from time to time.I have made some arrangements in business to protect myself to a certain extent.I am unsure about calling OMW this time.OMW hates my guts for exposing to her friends.She is very distressed and embarrassed from me airing their dirty laundry.

I think you still need to inform her of the new information that her WH has done and that your WW was giving his new number.

You can't control OM's BW's reaction but YOU can do the right thing to continue to fight this affair and fight for your M.

Also if she promised to never drink again how about she go back to AA?

Does she still have her sponsor? I worry she's an alcoholic who's slipped.

Did you listen to the radio clip from Dr. H that I posted to you?

WW and I had a big fight today over this.WW and I will be traveling to WW home country next week,where her mom and OM resides .WW doesnt want any trouble becos she fears OMW,who is very unstable ,will do things to harm her.OMW hates me deeply for exposing to her friends on fb.She also thinks WW was the one who initiated everything and that her H was innocent all along.If I hadnt found out by snooping that WW did send a msg back scolding her friend for giving her the number,I would definitely let OMW know.This time,it was really her wicked friends fault and not OM.I have no idea why people could be so evil.WW is not willing to completely cut her off but will refrain from seeing her for a few months until withdrawal is over.

Why aren't you going with her? She is too vulnerable to be back around the OM right now without you. Please go with her.

You've read this?
Craziest things to come out of waywards mouths
Yes she needs to drop toxic friend.

BH,I listened to the clip.Thanks for posting it.She never attended AA.She was a borderline alcoholic.She hasnt drank for 15 years and she said she wont again.She is going thru withdrawal right now.A ended 1 week ago.She is defogging gradually but is still very stubborn at times.So its hard for me to make any demands especially when she is not ready to recommit to our marriage.She keeps saying she has fallen out of love.I will be visiting her mom next week.Should I tell her mom even tho the A has ended?

I am going with her ,BH.But I will be leaving a few days early.

Good XP I'm glad you're going with her.

Yes tell her mom because you need her help to keep her eyes on her since you're leaving early. Can you change your trip and stay with her? Don't tell her just say" I want to have a fantastic time with you and we're going to have a blast" when your supposed to leave.

I will try to extend my stay.
WW said if I told her mom,it would actually be encouragement for her to leave me.One of the reason she is staying becos she didnt want her to know and worry.Her mom is 80 yr old.2nd reason is becos of the business we have.I wonder if she would remain like this after a complete defog......

Thanks for your advice and support,Brainhurts and all the others here on the forum.You guys are God sent angels.

DEFINITELY tell her mom. All waywards spout the crapola about leaving you if you tell.

It's just that. Crapola.

Of course she's worried and staying, she doesn't want to be held accountable.

That sure didn't bother her when she was having her time with that woman's husband. Why has that suddenly become a problem for her? Facing the wrath of an OMW is part of the downside for an adulterer. Does your WW understand this?

Exactly!I asked the same question.She said she was foggy and had never thought anyone would find out about the A.She always knew OMW has been on antidepressants for many years.WW has heard many crazy stories about the OMW.

XP,
Did you decide if you're telling her mother when you're on the trip?

This will help break the fog.

BH,I am still thinking about it.Her fog is dissipating day by day.She told me her mom would support her no matter what and I believe that.Her mom never really approved of our marriage becos I'm the foreigner that took her precious daughter away from her and brought her all the way to the other side of the globe.Actually,mom may already know becos she had told my WWs brother that she has been suspicious of WWs behavior.

Just when I thought things were improving....seems like this nightmare is never going to go away.Brief update.W and I went to visit her mom.She is still pretty depressed but getting better day by day.Some of her friends comforted her and encouraged her to do the right thing and that helped her defog even more.But one day we ran into the OM and I got very emotional.The whole week there was stressful for both of us. W promised that she would not contact the reunion group but they tried to pull her back in.I left yesterday and she was supposed to leave in 2 days becos she wanted to spend a bit more time with mom.The evil reunion people called her today and messed with her head. W suddenly wants a divorce now.Just a few days ago,she was saying how stupid and selfish she was...today she is completely in the fog again!!!I know she misses the OM.I am at my wits end.I dont know what else I could do.I exposed and it worked to kill the affair for a moment.but I am beginning to feel things are back to sq 1.What else can I do ???

I really have a hard time believing that you are fighting so hard to stay with a woman who's a serial cheater & has been treating you like a real door-mat ? This isn't fog , this is her real mindset .

"...he evil reunion people called her today and messed with her head. W suddenly wants a divorce now...."
Its ridiculous you are blaming others for her lack of love or respect for you. If she loves & cares about you no evil reunion people have the power to make your so innocent wife do anything she doesn't want or agrees with . If someone I see as evil here is your wife & you are the enabler .


".....I dont know what else I could do.I exposed and it worked to kill the affair for a moment.but I am beginning to feel things are back to sq 1.What else can I do ??..."

What you could (or must) do here is to grow a pair, regain your self-respect & lose her like scorpion on your palm . Enough with your planA/B strategy, you are way past that.No [censored] plan can change her real character which she has now revealed .

I have a hard time believing that I am fighting so hard for this woman too.Many of us here on MB are fighting for someone who doesnt seem to deserve it.Leaving someone you love for over 20 years is easier said than done.If there were a pill I could swallow to make me detach emotionally and forget her ,I would do it without hesitation.

GOOD FOR YOU ..... STANDING UP FOR YOURSELF.

I would get on the phone to these toxic enablers and in no uncertain terms tell these trollops to stay the hell away from your family or there will be hell to pay. If you have to snatch your WW's phone to get the numbers, then snatch it. Whatever it takes. You've come too far to stop now.

XP ... it is because "Adultery is an Addiction" ... and the only way to recover from this sordid addiction is to cut all contact with anything associated to it for life. It is a very narrow path.

She somehow got a hit from either toxic friends, OM, or a new OM ... she is still very wayward and very addicted.

What is happening is your wife was starting to withdraw and see some reality. This is why "NO CONTACT" with the drugs (OM/TOXIC FRIENDS) IS CRUCIAL TO RECOVERY. It is identical to the teenage girl who is in love with the loser boy, and she is hanging with the wrong crowd. Her parents forbid her to see this loser boy and the loser friends, but she can't stop it because the feelings she gets from hanging with the losers is intoxicating.

That is the exact scenario your WW is in today. She got another hit on the crack pipe and is deciding to get back into her drug addiction (i.e. toxic friends and possibly OM or a new OM). The reason is because those people give her a false HIGH a sense of admiration and respect that she thinks makes her "Queen". Like all addictions she is so selfish, entitled, and heavy in denial she will not pull herself out of the cesspool she is diving into.

She is needing this HIGH for some reason only she knows. You, your marriage, stability, security is a threat to this HIGH because it means she has to be accountable, responsible, and she must do hard work to heal you, her BH.

The best you can do is tap into the HIGH she is needing from this false sense of admiration. What are they providing her that you aren't ... and when you figure it out then overload her with it. If she is depressed they may be bringing her back to a time in her life when she remembers being happy. You may not be able to compete with the contrast effect she is doing in her mind.

Up your PLAN A and be the "Rock Star" husband for her. Try and recreate what attracted her to you. Never talk divorce and try and get as much time with her as possible.

ETA: You are only a couple months out from D-day ... you can plan A all through the summer still.

Thanks everyone.She said the phone call didnt affect her but I know it did.W promised me NC with OM and reunion group.But she said she cant keep that promise now.W will also tell her mom about the A and that she may want a divorce.She wants support from her mom.I encouraged her to tell her mom but her version of the story is distorted now that she is back in the fog.She got support from her sister in law when she told her she wanted a D.She re wrote history and told her she was not happy for years.But thats not what she said just a few days ago.

X, this is why you need to be exposing her, not her. She is putting her little spin on it to justify and gain support for her adultery and you're allowing it?

If you allow this to continue, then you may as well just hire a lawyer and buy a big-assed box of Kleenex, because you'll need them both.

While you need to be Plan A'ing your [censored] off, you also need to be doing everything possible to kill this. Right now, you look like a wimp to her and to women this is exactly what they don't want in a man. They want a man who's going to protect them, and stand up for them.

How can you expect her to believe you are man enough to stand up for her when you are showing her that you aren't even man enough to stand up to her?

Look, I know you're tired and beaten up. I understand this completely, BTDT. But you have to take some serious actions here, and now. What you've done so far hasn't worked all that well so what do you really have to lose?

Contact whoever you have to in that reunion group. Get real with them. Do whatever you have to do to ensure NC. Whatever it takes within the boundaries of the law. If you have to get nasty with a couple of them, then get nasty. This is your wife and your life, not theirs.

Get to work.

I second this post ^^^^^^.

You need to expose the truth to her mom not her. She is wayward and WILL put the wayward spin on it which will be lies.

Her mom will read the expo letter I wrote.But I am also worried mom will stand on her side.
I am public enemy to the reunion group.W said she will try her best to NC with them.One of the woman from that group,a cheater herself told W that she has a message for her from the OM.I told her to ignore her but W is extremely tempted to find out.This is a critical sitch.I told her one slip and she will be back to sq 1.

She must not "promise to try." She must cut all contact.

This practice of someone passing on a message is not going to cut it. You must make it a requirement that she DOES NOT see them again.

xp your wife is still addicted to OM and if she finds out that message it will be like getting a hit off the crack pipe again.

She will not recover if she still has these enabling friends. She needs to end all contact with these people.

Please read this.

Read My lips: No contact means No Contact

What should I do if she refuses to cut contact?She told me she doesnt want me to hurt OM by talking to his BW.She is now very confused and distressed from that phone call.She is seriously thinking about leaving me.

Have you exposed this to the OM's BW yet?

If she refuses to cut contact with OM or with the reunion group? No contact with OM is non-negotiable. If she stays in contact with this reunion group your M will limp along.

She is still very foggy and shouldn't care about "hurting the OM". She's going to leave you because you're fighting for your marriage?

Don't listen to her and do not leave your house. If she wants to leave, let her. Has she started to pack her bags yet? I'm sure she's trying to "scare" you.

You need to stand strong for your marriage and tell her "I will not have a marriage with 3 people in our Marriage" I will do whatever it takes to fight for this marriage.

This should be your answer about needing her to severe these friendships with these so called friends.

Have you asked her "are these reunion friends more important to you than our marriage"?

I exposed to OMW and thats how it ended the A.I was told OMW is having trouble keeping OM under control.W was fine and defogging before she got the phone call from the reunion .W initially promised NC with reunion and the OM.But W is fighting hard to resist the temptation to find out about the message the reunion group has to give her from the OM.They just told her they know the "truth"of what happened.You see,after the exposure,OM just disappeared .It was an abrupt end to their A and W wants closure.

This is proof that exposure kills the affair, especially the spouse of the WS. Now you know why we were pushing you to expose. Hats off to your exposure

She wants to stay in touch with this reunion group because it's her way to get a hit off the crack pipe(OM).

So how does she have contact with these people? The computer? Email?

How can you take away her access to these people?

She thinks these ep are too harsh but thats not what she said before that phone call.She's giving me a lot of fogtalk since that call.She said she just wants to know what that message,thats all.But we all know thats not the case.

You're correct that she is giving you fogbable and good job for seeing that.

So take her and go do something fun. You need to do something fun with her so she gets her mind of OM and you are putting deposits in.

Tell her like you would a drunk. "I will not allow you that drink and we are going to XYZ to get you away from your source". Do not let her have those keys.

How much UA time are you getting? What are you doing to meet her top EN's?

Yes,EXPOSURE did kill the affair.I thank all of you for pushing that since day 1.But it seems like the nightmare is not over yet.The reunion group has her home number.They called so many times ,my W had to call back to tell them to stop calling.Thats when they messed with her head.I left W and return home yesterday.W was supposed to return tomorrow but she is talking about extending her stay.

No UA time yet.She is still in withdrawal phase and depressed.She has no desire to recommit to our M yet.

How will she be paying for this extended stay? If you're paying for it you need to stop that.

So you didn't stay with her on the trip? This is why we were encouraging you to not leave early. You need to get her home ASAP.

She will not recommit until she feels in love with you again. That's why you need to be doing 20+ hours of UA time to create that love. Going and doing lots of fun RC.

Have you got her into the doctor to get some AD's? Dr. Harely recommends AD's during this very trying time in your life.

She is staying with her mom.She said she wanted to spend some time with her mom alone.I insisted to stay and I regret for not staying.Up to this moment,she will return tmorrow as planned.Hope this doesnt change.

Thanks for reminding me about the ADs.I will talk to her about it.

You might want to look at some AD's for yourself also.

"Tell her we had such a wonderful vacation that I would love for you to come home and we continue our enjoyment"

How will she pay for this extension? Is cost not a concern?

Cost not a concern cos she is staying with her mom for just a couple days.
Actually,our vacation was awful.She felt if the pain doesnt go away,she could not continue being with me.I guess I am partly to blame for bringing on that pain becos we ran into the OM on the street.He didnt see us but I got real emotional about it and was acting out during the whole trip.I need to avoid LB.

Yes you do because lovebusters make withdrawls from her lovebank. Do you have Dr. Harley's book "Lovebusters"?

But seeing OM would provoke alot of emotions from alot of people, but you need to learn to control your emotions.

What do you mean you were acting out? What exactly were you doing?

I dont have the book.I will order it from Amazon.
I acted out with anger,frustration,resentment.....whole bag of emotions.W feels if this is what MB is all about,she doesnt want to go thru it.She has no faith in the recovery that is possible with the help of MB.But at the same time,W knows MB has been 100% accurate on its prediction of the outcome.I told her she would go thru depression which she is experiencing now.

Please listen to these radio clips, right now, from Dr. Harley on resentment and controlling our emotions.

Radio Clip on Resentment and controlling our emotions
Segment #2

Tell me what you think.

Ok thanks,i will get right on it now.
Another thing that bothered her much was my demand for answers/details about the A.

yes,i should rise above my emotions everytime anger kicks in.I am usually pretty good at controlling my emotions.It was only that one time when I saw OM that got me all riled up.
I am planning to give her a recovery plan when she returns.Should I wait til she is over her withdrawal ?What if she refuses to do the plan?W did mention in the past that she just wanted to be friends/biz partner with me.Do I say yes and work on R anyway without her participation?

Don't get the cart before the horse. Don't worry about her refusal of wanting to do the plan.

You take the lead and show her what a loving, romantic marriage you can have together. Sit down and schedule UA time with her and get that going. Be the rock. Get her in to see her doctor to get some ADs.

First get her back home and help her through her withdrawal.

What about calling the coaching center?

I will start with the books with my W.SAA and HSHS.Is it common for unfaithful spouse to refuse to rebuild the marriage after the A?W talked about separating for a few months.
As expected,her mom is neutral about her wanting to divorce.She didnt say much about the A.

It's very common that's why you need the book SAA.

One of the reference couples "John and Sue" that Dr. H Harley actually counseled them himself, are a perfect example.

Sue actually leaves John and moves in with OM. It isn't until the affair dies a natural death and John goes into Plan B that Sue comes back to the M.

And then their LB were so low Dr. Harley had to coach them on how to meet each others needs because they hated each other. To this day they are happily M with a very loving M.

Please, when SAA comes in, read it.

Please listen to these radio clips until your book SAA gets to you.

It's about a couple who followed the plan to survive from the WW's affair and what the BH did. He did exposure and, Plan A'd her until she came out of the fog.
Radio clip with a WW and BH surviving from her affair
Segment #2
Segment #3
Segment #4

Just listened to the clips.
I think the biggest problem my W has is that she lets her emotions take control and make choices for her.Its been like that all her life.I tried to convince her to just enter the MB recovery program with me and her feelings will come back.But she relies on her feelings all the time.Thats also one of the reason why she had the affair.

That's why I would get her into see her doctor and get her on some AD's.

Listen to this radio clip on Dr. Harley talking about why he recommends AD's.
Radio Clip on Dr. Harley recommending AD's

I am going to convince her to go on AD's again but she said she didnt really need it.She said I was the cause of the depression with my resentment and demands.A bit of a fogbabble I believe.She thinks I am too demanding to ask her to get rid of those toxic friends.

When will she be back? Did she extend her stay?

She is coming back today.She wanted to extend one more day but I told her to return home today.

Good. So what Plan A things do you have planned for her? Dinner made? House clean? Flowers? What can you do to make her return happy and exciting for her? You need to "court her".

Should I wait til she is over the withdrawal phase or should I start courting her when she is more responsive?

I cleaned the house but not sure about flowers and all that...she has told me the more I pursue her,the more she wants to run.She said she is not ready yet...fogtalk again?

Yes it's all fog talk. You need to be there and be her rock as she gets through the withdrawal.

You need to be a strong, confident husband.

What were the things that you did that made her fall in love with you?

What are her top 3 ENs?

Conversation,affection,financial

She fell in love with me when we were in high school...not sure if it was love back then.Then we maintained a long d relationship on/off for several years.Back together again til now.She used to say I am someone whom she could enjoy talking to for hours but ever since the A,she complained our conversations have become very stressful and often leads to conflicts.She and the OM can fb chat day and night.She said she fell in love with the OMs words.

Well then you need to have good conversation with her.

Read this, especially the part about friends of good conversation.

The whole article is here Conversation is Boring

Don't have any affair talk for now. Get her back with you and fill her lovebank with lots and lots of deposits. Avoid all lovebusters.

Affection is an easy one give her hugs and touches. You know? How to Meet Needs for Affection #1
How To Meet Needs of Affection #2

Can you do this?

I can do it except I would want to talk to her about that phone call she got from the reunion people.That call really affected her.She hated OM for disappearing all of a sudden but she told me OM is still in love with her and for some reasons beyond his control,he couldnt contact her for now.If OM does make contact with my W,she would not tell me becos she said she didnt want me to hurt OM by telling his BW.Everything changed after that call.
A little update.OMW send me a msg asking if my W was still in contact with OM.Also,OM reinstated his fb account after several weeks of disappearance.

What did you tell OMW's? I'm concerned that OMW's wife may know something that you don't know.

I told OMW I didnt think so but we needed to be cautious to ensure they dont.I also asked why she was asking and if she had suspected anything.Reunion told my W that OM is probably having problem with his BW and OM has been spending a lot of time away from home.I got nervous hearing that becos W and I even admit that if it werent for OMS keeping OM on a tight leash,the A would not have ended.W told me she thinks(probably hopes) they will get divorced.

Something seems fishy here. You need to talk to OMW and find out what she knows. Did they break NC?

OMW replied and said thank you.I then messaged back asking if she was suspicious of anything.She hasnt replied back yet.
As far as I know,she didnt break NC with OM but she did with the reunion.

I also told W about the msg from OMW.Should I not have?Is it ok to engage in conversations about them?

THIS IS THE END OF THE WORLD!!!!
I am soooo depressed I cant function properly.
My W came back today and told me she wants to separate.She is leaving me for the OM.3 weeks ago,my expo killed the affair.She maintained NC with OM until today.He told her he is divorcing his wife.He told WW to leave me.She said she made up her mind and is leaving.The whole reunion group is on this.WW was on her way to airport to return home when they caught up with her before she left.I am so messed up now...cant think properly.....OMW asked me if they had made contact recently and I said i didnt think so.I thought things were going well since the A ended.What should I do now?Is this the end.....should I just give up after having gone so far?I am in sooo much pain now/.

Retain an attorney.
Start Plan B within a week.
Tell her this ~~~> "I need my space. Please move out."

Have you read the Plan B instructions?

** LINK ** How to Plan B properly

Plan B is NOT "giving up".
Plan B is to rescue yourself from the madness & chaos.

Do NOT move out.
She wants to leave.
Open the door.

"My desire is to save our marriage.
It is not my desire to be your warden.
You are an adult, you are free to move out, if that is your desire."

YOU NEED AN ATTORNEY.



Tell OMW.
Tell the entire family.

Memorize this:

"I will not discuss any legal issues with you.
Only with my attorney."

She didnt ask for a divorce.She wants to leave and move back with mom.I told her no contact for life and I wont be her friend.She knows about plan B and she said ok.She also knows affair partners has a small chance of succeeding but she said she wants to take a chance even if its just 1%.She said she doenst care about MB but then said she will use MB on her new relationship with OM to make it work and succeed.Back in the fog,thicker than before.

WW told her mom .She doesnt really care.WW will move back with mom.

I will tell OMW but I think she cant do much now that OM is divorcing her.WW told me not to tell OMW and if I do,she wont tell me anything from now on.
WW is my biz partner so she said she is willing to stay for a few months to settle things

Are you going to Plan B?
Have her move out ASAP.

Should I keep her in the house for as long as I could?she did mention that she could stay for a few months for the biz.

Neverguessed has mentioned several times that spouses that move out rarely come back......

Pardon me for taking what you wrote about your emotional distress at face value.

I am recommending Plan B based on what you WRITE about your current level of pain.

You cannot properly Plan A, given your current emotional distress.

If you are going to express how utterly devastated you are, we MBers are going to believe you.

So, are you LESS depressed than you were a few moments ago? Is it NOT "the end of the world"?


We are to believe what you say about yourself, or we are not. Which is it?
Are you exaggerating your distress?

I am not exaggerating my distress.I am in a lot of pain and feeling its the end of the world.I thought everything be ok when OM disappeared and I wont lose WW afterall.WW and I even admit that if OM were to divorce his wife and come looking for WW,she would leave me for sure.
But I kknow separation could be dangerous as some members said they rarely come back.

Are u saying if I could handle the pain,I should stay on Plan A?

She talked about leaving before but not as certain and adamant as this time.She never left becos OM never promised her anything.But this time,he promised her a future and he will divorce his wife.I never felt this hopeless before......even when her A was active,I was still confident and knew there were things I could do such as exposure.

Stop letting her fog sway you. I know, easier said than done. You have to find a calm, steady place inside you if you want to take charge of this.

Call the OM's wife. The fact that your wife threatened you not to is a reason to DO IT. Who knows what the OM really told your wife or his wife? Your WW could just be moving to be closer to be a mistress of sorts. You need to work with the OM's wife to get more info.

Think of your WW as a drugged up junkie. Don't listen to her babble her crazy! I was a wayward myself. Don't let the wayward drive the bus.

If you can handle more plan A without a total breakdown, do it. Try to keep her close IF YOU CAN HANDLE IT.

If you're going to get swayed to the core by her fog babble, then it's not going to work.

I sent a msg to OMW.
I did plan A for the last 2 months.I can try to do it again but she is REALLY leaving this time.She told her mom she will leave me to go back home.As soon as OM divorces his wife,thats when she leaves.

You don't KNOW yet. Cut it out. She's talking but you simply don't KNOW yet, what's going to happen here.

You've got to unhook from her crazy. Seriously.

Choose either plan A or B and stick with your plan.

Actually i dont know if I could do plan a again...it brings back so much pain all those nights with her sexchat n phone chat in the room.She told me her passwords for fb ,email after I expo,shes going to change them again....the secrecy hurts so much.
I will try to keep calm....i am getting myself together after prayers.....anyway,she cant just leave tomorrow....she is my biz partner.also,i heard they rarely come back once they left

XP, pep has given you some very good advice. it is time for PB.

i must emphasise here that you do NOT know what is going on with OM and OMW. you need to talk to OMW! you know that Os are liars! whether he actually told WW this or not, it is very probably not true. so speaking w/OMW is your first task (can you not do this in person or by phone rather than message?). expose, expose, expose!

your second task, as zibbles has said, is to get away from the crazy (PB). you need to do this for YOU.

your WW is totally foggy. put her bag of things out, change the locks, and cut off all contact. write that PB letter! and don't let the door hit her on the a$$ when she goes! (metaphorically that is!)

this is the best thing you can do for your marriage. you've got to give it a go. and get to the dr. for some ADs. you need them.

XP, can you put details in your sig line? i can't recall if you have children.

XP,

Another reason to fight this, is that this OM may be of the sub-species that is just looking for a better meal ticket and views your business as a cash cow to be slaughtered. That your childrens financial future is destroyed is of no concern to this OM.

Maggots like that will get your W to destroy their credit rating, sell off/steal any valuables, alienate everyone around them.

What is OMs financial standing? Not the same thing as what OM claims btw.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...in=153286&Number=2136196#Post2136196

God Bless
Gamma

Married.No Children.
BH(me):40
WW:40
DD1:1998 DD 2:2012 Valentines Day
EA/PA:2012 Jan-April
Expo end of March.
NC April 07
Broke NC today.WW wants separation.

X -- please read your thread again and again and again ... the plans have to be followed.

REPEAT: She is a full blown drug addict today, her drug of choice is OM and toxic friends. She is HIGH as a kite and her brain chemistry is all screwed up. SHE IS SO INTOXICATED AT THIS MOMENT SHE DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO MAKE A DECISION. SHE IS THE DRUNK DRIVER BEHIND THE WHEEL OF A CAR TRYING TO DRIVE SOBER ...

She is an addict ... addict ... addict ... addict ... she is HIGH ON OM AS WE TYPE.

KEEP EXPOSING THIS SORDID THING UNTIL THE COWS COME HOME ... KEEP ON OMW LIKE A HAWK AND KEEP ON EXPOSING AND EXPOSING AND EXPOSING ... MAKE AS MUCH TROUBLE IN OM'S LIFE AS POSSIBLE.

The goal is to stick to a Plan so you can attack this sordid addiction head on with all your might.

I didnt expose to the reunion group.Why bother now?They are the ones who set all this up.WW was hiding at home.Toxic friend told her she has a msg from the OM and she knows some secrets about me .There were no secrets of course and she called OM and gave WW the phone to talk.OM told her he is divorcing his wife.You see,when I first exposed to OMW last month,she didnt want to talk to me.But out of desperation,she msged me few days ago asking me if OM has been seeing WW.I believe OM is really divorcing his wife and thats what I fear most.OM is known as a wife fearing man thats why he vanished right after the expo.OMW could sue OM and WW for adultery punishable up to a year in prison in their country where the A took place.I guess he thinks divorce is the solution.

Wow,

adultery punishable up to a year in prison in their country where the A took place

So you are saying folks should give their WWs and OMs tickets to this country for a "vacation" lol.

God Bless
Gamma

most just get a fine.

couldnt sleep at all....cant make up my mind whether to plan a or b

plan b means no contact with WW unless she is ready to commit to marriage right?wouldnt that let her think she always has something to fall back on in case the A crash and burn?

xp,

Plan B gives WW a taste of life without you, WW then realizes she has been forced to commit to a dishonest man who will likely cheat on WW in turn. So plan B removes the safety net and the cake.

God Bless
Gamma

X, what the hell do you want? How do want this to play out?

Seriously.

I told WW and she knows the A is based on dishonesty and thoughtlessness and most A will end within 6 months,She read it from MB...but she said she is willing to take the chance .She can always come back to me if it doesnt work out.

I want to have my marriage saved.

Well, I guess that's a pretty good start. Why aren't you blowing up this reunion group for what they are and doing? You KNOW they have a Facebook page, so why aren't you attacking that? I wrote all this to you a couple of days ago and you have done nothing to expose these pricks for what they are. Why not?

Oh no, you tell her [censored] point blank that if this is the path she chooses to travel, then it's a one way trip with no chance of a return ticket. You have yourself one heavily fogged out WW right now. Don't you even THINK about allowing her any concessions for her nasty behavior.

The reunion group knows whats going on.Right after exposing to OMW,OM closed down his fb ,then WW closed down hers.The group then tried to track WW down.They caught up with her just before she boards the plane to return home.Shortly after ww closed her fb,she asked one of the reunion member to post on their group fb that she regrets for hurting me and that she needs to get things right and that they should cease all contacts with her.That member lied about posting it for her.This group is very private and their spouses arent allow to join their gatherings.Photos they took at these gatherings are very unsettling.
If I tell her during plan B its a one way trip then theres no chance of R even when she feels remorse and wants to recommit to our marriage......I was told that would be an exception

Can you afford to call the coaching center?

I would go see a lawyer to get advice. Get prepared for Plan B. Do you know what you need for Plan B?

Everything in my life is a mess now....business,finance,only been sleeping 2 hours a day....I cant afford coaching especially now that I will need to deal with her leaving.
I cant plan B right away for 2 reasons.WW is my biz partner and I didnt do a good job in Plan A.Is it true once they left the house,they rarely come back...read from neverguessed posts?

You need to go see a lawyer, especially with your business.

WW is not asking for anything from the biz.I just need her to help run the biz until I find someone to replace her.
WW just asked me about MB concepts.She wants to improve the odds for a successful relationship with OM with MB guidance and help.

You need to add what she said to this thread Craziest Things to come out of a Wayward's Piehole

Theres just too many to list.We laughed about it just last week when she was temporarily out of the fog.I was so happy then.Will AD's help with my insomnia?

They helped me sleep some. Did you listen to the clip I posted for you of Dr. H talking about AD's? It's at the 3:10 mark.

Make an appointment with your doctor.

Regardless of what WW SAYS, look at her ACTIONS. Don't take her word for it that she will not want anything from the biz. Protect yourself. Plan A or Plan B. Protect your finances.

Wow. Just wow. Definitely one of the foggiest. She wants AFFAIR coaching rather than MARRIAGE coaching. From MARRIAGE BUILDERS

Please go see your doc asap. I'm not sure about AD's, didn't use them, but Dr Harley recommends them. I do use sleeping tablets, resting is so important to be able to deal with the trauma you are going through.

Hang in there!

I think I will plan A for a bit .
I could plan A here in where we live.She said she will stay for 3-6 months for the biz.
Or I could plan A at her home country where she wants to return to .Biz is relocatable.
After 3-6 months,plan b regardless of location.
My question is during plan B,is it zero communication/contact or can it be restricted to just business only?

No in Plan B there is no contact what so ever. Completely dark.

Why not email Dr. Harley at MBRADIO?

Read this on plan B How To Plan B properly

So is she going to be here with you for the next 3 months?

xtreme, I am worried about your emotional health. Are you really sure you are able to Plan A whilst there is an active affair going on?

You sound exhausted and confused. Dr H recommends BH's Plan A longer, but only if they can. Do not risk your own well-being for this.

Please get to your doctor asap.

BH,she said she will stay 3-6 months max,then she leaves.OM promised her he will get a divorce.OMW finally replied with bible verses and said this is a test from God and she will continue to do whats right for the family.She still loves her husband and asks me for forgiveness.Things are not going well for her either.I hope she could keep her husband in the marriage.WW views their divorce as an indicator of how much OM loves her.

I am exhausted ...had only 2 hours of sleep.I am not sure if i could handle plan A but i'm hoping this time may be a bit different becos the A is not active.WW said she will NC until OM gets a divorce.

Well since your WW and OM are both addicts whom are addicted to each other the best thing for everyone is for them to be apart. So when she gets home you will need to snoop better than you ever have. You need to make sure and watch her email, phone, every possible way that they can communicate.

You need to make sure they stay NC. Then you need to be the husband she fell in love with again.

Did you make an appointment with your doctor?

I got some AD's from the doc.Its deja vu again.I went to see the doctor shortly after D day.I am going thru the same symptoms as before.
I dont know if I could get her to fall in love with me again now since her foggy head is fully occupied by OM.

She doesnt even want to talk about anything except work stuff.Ever since the A,we argue a lot especially when her waywardness kicks in.

Yes her head is all about OM because she just got another hit off the crack pipe. This is why you need to take this opportunity to Plan A your butt off.

You still need to seek legal advice to protect yourself.

Did you write Dr. Harley? They are so good, that they usually respond in a day.

You need to stop all lovebusters. Stop them now.

OK,i will try my best to ignore her fogbabble.

I wrote to Dr H in the past for the radio show.No reply.

Maybe I'll write again.

But I am so exhausted from saving my M.She said it would be ok to never talk or see me again after 20 years being together.At that moment,my heart was crushed so badly,i lost all desire to win her back.

I have notified Dr Harley.

Thanks so much!Should I write a new letter again?

You all are my angels.Ever since dday,I've not been the same and I didnt have anyone I could talk to except the kind and patient people here .You guys are like family .Nowadays,many people are indifferent to affairs.
MB,God and lots of prayers are whats getting me thru each day.Thanks again.

I would write another or forward the other one.

One way to make sure they receive it and that it doesn't go to spam is too make sure you put something in your subject line.

We know xp because we've all been there. Did you get some sleep?

Ok,I will write another one....do i summarize from day1?

Thanks for asking.I didnt get any sleep,I went jogging and hopefully the exercise would help .

Sure. Just give him a summary of all the bullet points. If you give your number you can be a caller an he will read your email AND talk to you. Then you can ask questions.

I am soo depressed today.I am blaming myself for not staying with WW and return home with her.As soon as I left her,toxic friend called her and messed with her head.Next day,more toxic friends tracked her down on the way to the airport.They caught her just before she boarded.If they had just been minutes late,they would have missed her.They got her on the phone with OM.That was the last straw!!That call put WW back deeply in the fog.She took a sniff of the coke again after 3 weeks of withdrawal.I feel bad I wasnt vigilant enough.WW almost made it....she was asking me about MB principles and had shown interest b4 that call..
Is this meant to be?

Is it ok to direct OMW to MB?
OMW has been messaging me a lot lately.

Yes direct her here. Wish all who have to experience infidelity could find MB.

I'm going to caution your contact with OM's BW. While you both need to stay in contact to verify NC between your spouses, you both are very vulnerable for RA. We see them all the time. So please heed my caution and protect your Lovebank.

OK,i will be cautious and protect my lovebank.
I know she is very weak now and OM does want to divorce her.This is very bad news for me and her.WW will leave as soon as that happens.I pray that she could save her M with MB.

Send her this link How To Survive Infidelity

Yes you both have a very good chance to save your marriages.

1. Because both of your spouse are in different countries and back home with their spouses
2. If you can get OM's BW onborad with MB then you have ammunition at both ends.

BH,
BAD NEWS!OM's BW just msged me and said yes to divorce.She did not wish to and has been holding out for awhile.But she said she couldnt take the verbal abuse anymore.
WW was talking about not just separation now,she wants a D.

I just emailed Dr Harley again with subject heading:xtremepain from the MB forum.Thanks.

Well they aren't divorced yet.

Did you direct her to MB?

Let us know what Dr. H says.

Isn't your WW back with you right now?

WW is back with me at home but will move out in 3-6months.I think she is just waiting for their D to finalize.
OMW msgd me today and said she is giving up becos of the verbal abuse from OM.I told her to hang in here and sent her the MB link.
I will let u know what Dr H has to say.

Now work on today to show your WW what a wonderful life and M she will have with you.

Help her through withdrawal and fill her LB back up. Get her into the doctors for some AD.

I dont think she is going thru withdrawal now.She is planning for D and starting a new life with OM.She is just waiting for OM to go thru with his D.She is now back in the fog with her cold and unresponsive attitude.

WW caught me snooping.Got angry ,threatened me and demand I stop.What do I say?

She is looking up for D atty now.

"I will no longer need to check on facts that I know are important to our family once I feel safe & secure that all is well and there are no harmful secrets being kept. You have nothing to worry about if you are honest and forthright. You aren't hiding anything, are you?"
*smile*



She likes to yank your chain.
She knows you might panic if she throws the "D word" out there, and give her free cake to eat.
Show no reaction to this.
In fact, *smile* and ask if she'd like a cup of tea or anything from the store.
"Honey, I'm going to the grocery market. Can I get you anything? Some yummy cake?"


If you react to every crazy thing she says, you will wear yourself out.

She downloaded a separation agreement and wants me to sign it.
She promised to stay a bit longer for the biz but are cutting it short becos of my snooping.Do I continue to snoop?How should I handle the agreement?She is threatening to leave.

Read Pep's advice again........

Read it again......

Did you consult with your lawyer on the business?

I wouldn't sign the separation agreement.

Say "I don't talk divorce, I only talk marraiage"My lawyer talks divorce.

She's trying to wear you down and you're letting her.

Business should be ok.
Is there anything else I could do other than plan A?
Trying to schedule UA with her but she just wants to be alone.That breach of NC really turned things around.

BH is right - do NOT sign anything!!

Yes contact with OM has set your clock back to day 1.

On your UA, what were things you both loved while you were dating? What RC did you both love? Then make the plan and do it. You know her schedule since you work together.

Court her XP. Woo her. Help her through withdrawal, but do not be a doormat.

We loved doing everything together while we were dating in our 20s.I plan to join the gym with her.Is that RC thats considered as UA?
How should I respond when she asks me what my life would be like after she moves out?She often asks me what to do about eating cos I dont know how to cook.

Yes working out together is RC and UA. Dr. H highly recommends it so your around each other when endorphines are released.

You tell her "I'm doing everything to save our M and we will have a wonderful future together". Don't you want a loving, romantic M to last a lifetime? I do. Why don't we put all our energy into making a fantastic M we'd love"

On the cooking I'd say " I was thinking of taking some cooking classes you want to do this together?"

If she says no you do it anyways. Look them up and sign up. You show her what a wonderful man she will be missing.

WW asked me if I would give them(OM and WW) trouble after she leaves me.I said I would do everything possible to save our M.She got infuriated and threatened to commit suicide.She was cursing and and said that theres nothing I could do becos OM is getting a D and WW and I didnt register our marriage in her home country.She is worried I would sue them for adultery.
Did I handle it correctly by saying I would do anything to save our M or should I have said something else to avoid the whole sitch?

If she threatens suicide call the cops and take it seriously.

Is this normal for her to do to you?

You tell her "yes I will cause a whole lot of trouble for them. You will have OM subpoenaed and forced to testify."

You say I will do whatever it takes to fight for my M. We both can spend all this energy by creating a loving, romantic M". Do you want a cookie?

I will repeat again if she threatens suicide call the cops or a suicide line.

BH,
She threatened suicide before.She calmed down a bit now.
If she leaves tomorrow,that means I would be forced into plan b?Do I still try to save M by giving them hell but plan b should be zero contact though....??

Where is she going? Is it a for sure thing? Or just threats?

Could just be a threat but she has been wanting to leave asap.
I was just wondering it would be a contradiction if I have to continue to fight for M in plan B while remaining no contact.Hows that possible?

Did you ever hear back from Dr. Harley?

Plan B will take some preparation and so you take every opportunity to Plan A like a rockstar.
If she leaves and refuses to end her affair then yes Plan B and yes no contact at all.
Read these again What are Plan A and Plan B

Read this How to Plan B properly

Also you will need to write a Plan B letter.
Here Plan B letter samples

i didnt hear back from Dr H.

If she leaves the house and move back to be with OM and I decide to sue,that wouldnt be plan b right?

WW waywardness is at its highest since the A.A is definitely the most powerful addiction i have ever seen and theres no facilities like a rehab for that.

WW asked me about the msgs exchanged between me and OMW.Should I tell her that OMW told me she said yes to D becos she couldnt take the verbal abuse anymore from OM?

Did you notify the MODS that you have been trying to get a hold of Dr. Harley? I always here back by at least 2 days???

Xp she has not left yet. Until she is gone you need to fill her LB back up.

How are you doing on UA time? Filling her EN? What are her top EN? What are you doing to fill them? Stop all lovebusters.

You need to put on your game face and get in the game. Are you verifying NC between and loser boy?

Do not tell her that OM's BW said about D because that will give her a hit of hope that he will be waiting for your WW
Your WW is an addict and you need to make sure she doesn't get a hit off that crack pipe.

Man you need to act like you're at war because that's what you are. At war to fight for your marriage. So please stop about her leaving until the ink is dry on the divorce papers( which she hasn't even filed or got back on that plane).

Until she moves out you have a chance to work on saving your marriage.

We have posters on here that their WW has actually moved out and they are still in Plan A.

Read this GJM's Thread

BH,I dont want to tell WW what OMW said about the D but I do want to tell WW that OMW emphasized how verbally abusive OM has been in their M all these years.
WW wont spend much time with me and pretty much closed off emotionally.She knows I am trying to fill her needs and she keeps on telling me to let go and how she is determined to leave me.My WW is a full blown addict now.I am not optimistic about recovery unless OM cuts contact and restores his own marriage.But I will continue to plan A with no lovebusters and pray for a miracle.
I thought MB states if WS moves out,plan b should be implemented.Why is GJM the exception?What are the exceptions?

GJM,

Was told by Dr. Harley himself. Plan A is different for BH and BW.

That is why I want you to get a hold of the Harleys. BH can Plan A as long as 2 years at times. It depends on each situation.

Can you please notify the MODS again and send them a copy of your email?

Just click notify icon at the bottom?

Yes and then you can even post your email in the box. Not sure how many characters it allows.

OK,I posted my email in the box.
I'll let everyone know once I get a response.Thanks.

Ok good.

Are you saying she's still in contact with OM?

The last contact they made was that phone call placed by the OM just before WW boarded the plane.OM told WW he will D his wife.WW told me she will not contact OM til their D is finalized.In her foggy mind,this is the moral thing to do.WW expects D will take awhile so she decides she could stay with me for 3-6 months.
WW also told her mom she will leave me.Mom seems ok with that.

Are you verifying NC?

Xtremepain,

I am so sorry you have experienced so much trouble contacting Dr Harley. Obviously he has not emailed you nor contacted me. My only possible explanation is that when I spoke to him several days ago he said Joyce has been quite seriously ill.

I will notify him again.

I am.There has been NC as far as I know.She will resume contact as soon as OM files for D.But she goes on OM's blogs,fb everyday.

Thank you,JustUss.

That is not NC. While she may not be speaking to him, each viewing of his FB pages/other websites sets the withdrawal clock back.

karma,you are absolutely right.WW is still very foggy and determined to be with the OM as soon as he D his wife.

WW was very angry at me again for sounding like a recorder everytime she talks about separation/D.I told her I would not support anything she does to ruin our marriage.I believe in M and not D.She wants to keep a business relationship with me after D and I said I'm not sure about that yet.How am I able to do a good job in plan A when WW gets mad at me everyday becos I wouldnt sign the separation paper?I stopped all lovebusters but she said she hates me more and more for not letting her go.
BH,even tho I didnt tell WW about OM and his BW getting a D,I think she has an idea becos OMW changed her fb profile pic to a pic of her alone.She also hinted with posts she made recently.

Of course she's upset--she wants you to just roll over. Her anger is normal, ignore it.

She "hates" you because you are being nice, which does not compute with her vision of your being a demon.

Thanks Karma,
WW resumed to be a bit "normal"today.She is counting down the days to moving out.She called her toxic friends to tell them about her plan to move out in 3-6 months.She wants them to relay the message to the OM .Meanwhile,the last I heard from the OMW was she will D with OM becos of the excessive verbal abuse from him.Is there anything else I could do or just continue with my plan A which is not much of anything becos WW is so unresponsive to me right now.No UA time ,shes on the computer day and night.

You do what you can whenever possible.

Plan A the littlest things. She can't miss little gifts on her pillow or random foods she likes left where she'll see them, can she?

Agree you have 3-6 months to Plan A like a rockstar.

What are her top EN?

Did you hear back from the Harleys yet?

I was wondering , to get her back is there a plan for you to follow after she divorces you too ?

Please, "BestPlayer", take advantage of the very valuable FREE Marriage Builders information available on this site.

Until you understand the MB plans, restrain from posting non MB advice.

BH,I havent heard from Dr Harley yet.

Its hard to meet her ENs .She gets uneasy everytime I try.Her daily journal entry is all about the OM.

What are her top EN?

What are you doing to meet them? Maybe we can give you some different ideas?

Conversation,admiration ,affection and financial

Conversation is the only thing she is willing to do.We enjoy light conversations but since the A,we dont have much to talk about.She is very cautious about what we talk about now.Mostly just about business.When it gets personal,she would get up and do something else.

Bestplayer,do you have a story to share with us?What is your sitch?

Admiration is an easy one. So what are you doing for that one?
For Conversation have you read these?
Conversation
Conversation is Boring

Are you committing any Lovebusters at all?

For admiration,I tried to give her compliments as much as I can.But I admit I still need to improve my game.Sometimes when she gives me fogbabble,I would tend to ridicule her.I need to ignore her instead.
I dont think I am committing any lovebusters except when I get angry at her nonsense but I am getting that under control now.I will completely eliminate that too.

I remember from Melodys posts that plan A success rate is low...do u know the %?Was it 15%?

Have you heard back from Dr. Harley yet?

nothing yet,BH.

WW resurrected her once short lived 2nd secret life again.Changed pw.New accounts.Very hard to verify NC now.
She is pulling away emotionally day by day.My plan A has no substance...no UA and she wont allow to have any of her ENs met by me.

Plan A success rate is that low? Is Plan B success rate any higher? If not, then how can we call this program successful?

This is so strange. Are you using the same email that you registered with?

This isn't like the Harleys??

i think JustUss mentioned that his wife was ill.
Its not the same email that I had registered with.

That may be part of the problem can you check your other email account?

I checked.Nothing there.

rainysweet,

Marriage builders is not a marriage at all costs. Even if M aren't saved MB has saved people. In my eyes that's a success.

Where the plan is almost guaranteed by Dr. Harley is IF the program is worked exactly as he has laid it out with no deviations. Plus you must have two people completely committed.

I believe I read that plan A is successful in ending the affair by itself only 15% of the time. But that overall plan A has about a 50% success rate. Perhaps Mel or someone can clarify this again.

What do you mean by overall plan A?Do you mean plan A+B=50% success rate?

Just found out WW resumed contact with OM with new fb acct.She said OM got a D.I dont understand why they are being so secretive about it.WW already told me she is staying with me for just a few more months to settle business matters.I messaged OMW to verify D but she hasnt replied.
OM asked WW to keep A underground.I think OM lied about the D,otherwise whats the need to hide from me.

She's in your house under your roof.

You have 3-6 months to help her out of the fog.

How is it she has any access to a computer? I would cut off all access or sit right by her. Do not let her.

When she was out of the fog temporarily right after the expo,she bought a new laptop so she could occupy herself with games and movies instead.She even promised to just do that without any internet access.
Since she is a full blown addict now,if I cut off her access,I would imagine things would get very ugly.

If you want to fight and save this M you're going to have to stop enabling her.

My exposure was not massive.I just exposed to OMW and her friends.WW told her mom and some of her friends.She got support from some and ignore those who lectured her. Would it help to expose again?

Well your WW is still in her affair because she is contacting him again. I would cut off her Internet access. You've been enabling her far too long. You aren't in Plan A you're in Plan doormat.

You fought us on exposure and when you finally did it was just a small one.

You act like you're beaten but you have a huge leg up because your WW is still at home and OM is in another country.

We have many BH that their WW's have moved out and are fighting for their M.

She gets ugly you say "I will not live in a M with three people and You will NOT conduct your affair in my house" You walk around and keep telling her this.
If she starts to yell and scream have an exit plan ready. If she lays a hand on you be prepared to call the cops.

You're afraid of your wife's actions and she uses that to conduct her affair under your nose.

I dont think I could keep her from contacting the OM.She will always find ways.Reunion group told her he is now D with OMW.Reunion group has been accusing me of many things calling me a fake Christian cos I went behind their backs and exposed to OMW.Everyone of them are blaming me for causing the D between OM and OMW!!!!They laughed and said my exposure backfired on me now that OM is single and my wife is fantasizing marrying him!!

Its sad there are so many enablers out there. You know you did the right thing not only for your marriage, but also for the OMW, she had a right to the truth. Amazing how anyone can see honesty as something wrong, even sadder they can't see infidelity is wrong .... and they are good christians.

Since she has resumed her affair maybe you should do exposure the right way this time?

She's in your house and committing her affair.

I know I would break that laptop if it was me. I would disable the Internet. I would do everything in my power. You're so worried on making her mad that she gets to do what she wants.

POSOM is in another country and she has said she will be with you for 3-6 months. Are you throwing in the towel?

xtremepain,

I spoke to Dr Harley yesterday.

Yes, the email addresses have been part of the confusion. I am alerting him to a member with this________ email address that is waiting fr a reply. He is looking for email with that address but not finding it. That is because I am sending him the email address you have supplied with your registration and you are emailing him from a different address.

He promised to look into it.

Thanks JustUss!

Xp,

When you send the new email to Dr. Harley tell him the latest about your WW making a new facebook and contacting OM again.

Happy,I know I did the right thing but it was hard to swallow.It was also very hurtful WW actually believes her toxic friends who she has met just few months ago as oppose to me,her BH of 20 years!

BH,am I throwing in the towel??Ive been asking myself that question all the time.It has been very difficult everyday for me...cant imagine 3-6 months.But I believe in Plan A&B and I dont want her out the house since NG has mentioned many times that once separated,the chance of R is very slim.
I could only expose to friends of WW and OM.But the closer friends already know.The reunion group also know about OM got a D.
In Plan A,am I not supposed to tolerate her carrying the A ?Even if I cut off the internet,she could goto an internet cafe .Theres really no way to stop her from contacting the OM.

Thanks JustUss.
Sorry for the confusion.

Ok,I will wait for his reply first and give him an update of the current sitch.

I understand xp and I want to see you save your M.

Let's see what Dr. Harley says.

When you send the new email to Dr. Harley tell him the latest about your WW making a new facebook and contacting OM again. Ok?

Hang in there my friend.

Thank you,BH.
OM just sent this to WW:My D has nothing to do with u.Even my wife knows that our M has come to an end.We all know I dont fall for woman that easily.The woman has to be amazing like you to deserve my love for her.I know I want you and I know where I want to go with this.But you need to figure out whether you still love ur H or not.You keep telling him about me,about our contacts.I dont want to come between you two.I dont want any trouble and to go through what had happened in April.So if you still love ur H,go try and fix ur M.If not,you should think about what you want with or without me in the equation.

I am starting to doubt whether he really got a D or not.

Even his wife knows that their marriage has come to an end?

What poetry. Blech.

Search public records, it should be on the docket if it hasn't been finalized; if it has been finalized, it is public record.

CWMI,OM lives in another country I am not familiar with.I am trying to get a hold of his BW .

Xp,

Did you resend that email to Dr. Harley? Do this asap. Then hit notify and let justuss know what email address it's coming from.

Did you ever hear back from OM's BW about the divorce?

I just resend the email from the email I registered this account with.
OMW has not replied back.I was told she moved out of the house.

Keep us updated on what Dr. Harley says.

Did you also notify the MODS so they can also let Dr. Harley now? It might be worth an extra set of eyes since you've had such a difficult hearing back from Dr. Harley?

I notified the MODS.I think JustUss will follow up on that.
WW discovered the snooping software.She has some anti-kl program downloaded.Surprisingly,she wasnt mad this time.I guess thats the end of my snooping days.In a way,I am kind of relieved becos I dont need to read about what their sick deluded minds are thinking...makes me sick everytime...I dont understand how this fog can change a person from his/her core....WW is not only lying to me but to OM as well.

Good let us know as soon as you hear back from Dr. Harley.

The fog is them in their addiction. Have you ever known a drug addict or alcoholic? Or anything like that? They lie to everyone they know.

I'm sorry xp you've been through the ringer. I hope Dr. Harley will advise you soon.

How do I respond to WWs interrogation of the details of my snooping techniques and she likes to emphasize that I should answer with total honesty as a Christian.

Until I feel safe in our M I will do whatever it takes to have a safe M.

If you don't have something to hide then what's the big deal?

Do I still need to snoop since I know there is contact with the OM again?It's painful to read.Lots of lies and hurtful things said about me.Reunion welcomed her back with open arms.I dont understand why so many seemingly "normal"people with husbands/wives and kids are encouraging her to act on her feelings and just be happy.How do they not see WW just broke up the OM's family and she could do the same to their families!WW is shamelessly interacting with everyone as if nothing happened.I remember right after the exposure,she closed her fb and told me the reunion had a bad influence on her and she never really enjoyed the people.
BH,I still havent heard from Dr H yet.

Because our society teaches everyone to "do what makes you happy" "do what's best for you and don't think about anyone else but yourself". There are way too many enablers out there.

Now do you see why I wanted you to go back to those BW's and tell them even if it was 20 years ago? We need more people to stand up for the right things.

I'd take a break from snooping for a bit. It's causing too much damage right now.

I just heard on the radio show that Joyce accidentally deleted a bunch of emails.

I hate to say this but send it again. I know you're having the worst luck. Send it to the MODS AGAIN and tell them what email you sent it from. They've got to get it sooner or later.

Thanks BH,I'll send it again.

Ive been snooping for the past months and I still get that acute heartache every time I read.Sometimes I try to detach and pretend reading about some other random people.

Did you ever get into your doctor and get some AD's and sleep meds?

Yes,I got some AD's and sleep meds.
I try not to depend on it as much.Praying and reading the bible helps.
Philippians 4:4 Rejoice in the Lord always.I will say it again: Rejoice!
Very difficult to do but the words constantly reminds me to be happy about other areas of my life.

Because our society teaches everyone to "do what makes you happy" "do what's best for you and don't think about anyone else but yourself". There are way too many enablers out there.

Now do you see why I wanted you to go back to those BW's and tell them even if it was 20 years ago? We need more people to stand up for the right things.
[/quote]

Sadly TV shows/movies send the message infidelity is ok, do what makes you happy. When I was researching infidelity I was shocked to discover the number of sites promoting affairs with married couples. No wonder there are so many enablers society is desensitised to infidelity.

I finally found the radio clip where Dr. Harley talks about the "15%" success rate that gets thrown around on the forums.

Radio clip on the "15%" success rate

Thanks BrainHurts. I also remember MelodyLane explaining this in even greater detail from Dr. Harley on a post somewhere. This helps.

Any word from Dr. Harley?

BH,yes I just got an email from him.I left out some pertinent info and I'm emailing him back.

Woohoo. Can you share? Are they going to read it on the show?

I can share.Is it ok to post it here?I've never seen anyone posting email from Dr H here though.
I am writing him back to ask about exposing to friends of WW and OM.Maybe Melody could chime in on that since she is the expert in that department.

Yes others have posted emails from Dr. Harley.

Here's an example Requirements for recovery from an affair

Xp,

How are you? What did Dr. Harley tell you? Can you please share what he told you with us?

Xtremepain:

There are a few facts that I am missing. What did your wife complain about before she left you. Was her primary problem financial? Is the OM more financially secure? What practical advantages does your wife have living with him as opposed to you?

Generally, I would encourage you to stick to plan A until the affair is ended, doing your best to address the complaints she may have had prior to her affair. But if the stress is too hard on you, plan B may be your only option. Take anti-depressant medication until this whole episode is over. It will not only help you feel much better, but it will also help you look better to your wife when you make contact with her. With antidepressant medication, you may be able to stick to plan A longer.

I would not move to where she is because that�s where the OM lives. She should come back to you when the affair is over. The fact that the OM�s divorce is predicated by his abusive behavior toward his wife, it�s not likely that her relationship will survive much longer. The only affairs that survive are those where the other person is a clear-cut improvement over the spouse, and even those turn out to be fragile. But most affairs are with someone who is a step down, rather than an improvement. The fact that you don�t have children makes reconciliation more difficult, but if you treat your wife with respect while she is causing you the greatest pain you will ever experience in life, you will have a chance to win her back. There comes a point in time, however, when the effort is too stressful. If you start thinking of suicide, you�ve reached that point, and you must start taking care of yourself and let her go.

Best wishes,
Dr. Harley

So my friend, what is your Plan?

Hi BH,

WW is wearing me out and I am exhausted.Had a big fight and she went berserk when I told her I am thinking of filing adultery charge against the OM.My plan A is not working at all.We speak no more than 10 minutes a day.She is in her room on fb all day long.She is very angry becos I wouldnt "let go".She is trying to get me to sign the paper by being very abusive in words.

What do you do when she is being abusive? I think you've put up with her abuse long enough?

Maybe you should work on Plan B? I'm really worried about your mental health. Can you remove her from the home or have somewhere to go?

Dr H recommends that I stay in plan a until suicidal thoughts creep in.I did have those thoughts in the early days.I think even tho the sitch has not improved,I am still able to deal with it.I think its becos I am beginning to detach myself emotionally.I am just trying to decide if i should file the adultery charge or not.

I think you should file charges. What a better way to stand up against infidelity??

Have you been back into see your doctor to adjust/change your AD's?

Dr. Harley did say if it becomes too much to prepare for Plan B.

I didnt go back to see my doctor.My meds are the bible and prayers now.
I ask myself if i should save M at all cost.Its an uphill battle since i have to hire some foreign lawyer hoping he wont scam me.I would also need to get a loan for the fees.The A has already taken a toll on my health,business and finance.At the end,i dont know if its worth any of this.
OM told WW if I had gone to him instead of exposing to his BW,he would have ended the A.OM said I am sneaky going behind his back and not to be trusted and that leaving me was a good idea.WW agrees 100%!!

They will say whatever because they are foggy wayward aliens whom only think of themselves.

XP,
I think you need Plan B for your health. Your health is suffering, your business and finances are suffering. We have had people suffer from PTSD. I really wish you'd get back into see your doctor. Even Dr. Harley recommends AD's for you.

Plan B will protect you from her abuse and any balance you may have in your lovebank.

How is your lovebank balance doing?

Thanks BH,I will go back to see my doc if conditions worsen.I dont know if they are symptoms or not,but I do have bad dreams and have lost interest in many things.I stay home most of the time unless I need to be out.But I do feel some improvement physically.I sleep and eat better now.
I dont know the answer to how my lovebank balance is doing....sometimes there is a credit ,sometimes its a debit....

OMW msged me and told me she refused to sign the D paper.She is fed up and will now stand up to her husband and WW.She threatened to file adultery charge against OM and WW.WW called me nasty and evil for cooperating with OMW .WW said I am putting her in danger becos she thinks OMW would harm her.I told her to stop cheating with her husband then.WW then said if OMW causes harm to her in any way,it would all be my fault!!I responded by saying she needs to face the consequences of her own actions.WW was shocked and proceeded to say,how could I be so evil....anyway,WW is packing up and moving back to be with the OM.I guess I am forced to plan B now.This is so ugly but I kind of expected it would end up like this.

What did you say back to OM's BW?
This is good news because now you both can fight the affair from both ends.

What can you do to keep her from leaving the country to fly back to OM?

Did you tell BW of OM that your WW is planning to go there?

Tell your BW that you will do everything in your power to help OM's BW to press adultery charges against her. Tell her you will fight like the Dickens in court and you will testify for OM's BW.

Tell her you think it's funny that you're the evil one when she's breaking up two M and is a WH*RE.

This belongs on the craziest things to come out of a wayward's piehole thread.

Also you tell her adultery charges are just one of the many consequences of her shagging another man.

BH,
WW said what I am doing now is despicable.She never thought she would come to hate me so much and theres no way in hell we are ever going to R.I have never seen so much hatred in her eyes in over 20 years.I dont know what else I could do to stop her from flying back.I will tell OMW she is flying back to be with her WH.But WW is an insane full blown addict now.I am beginning to agree with her that R is not possible .

I am not sure if I should help OMW file adultery charges against WW.Its a crime punishable up to 12 months in jail.
I snooped and was shocked at what I was reading....OM and WW are worried to face the adultery charge,OM brainwashed WW to disclose personal info about my background....family,business etc.....so OM could use the info to plot some evil plan against me.OM is willing to go beyond the law to "fix"me.

More snooping revealed that OM wants WW to demonize and slander me to my friends/contacts on fb.He said I should have a taste of my own medicine,referring to my exposure message to his BW.OM also thinks the malicious claims could be used to defend their adultery charge.

After all this and you're still wondering if you should help OMW in filing adultery charges?

My friend they are setting up and YOU may be the one to have charges. Are you documenting all this?

WW is very dangerous right now. You must protect yourself.

Get into your lawyer yesterday!!

I am documenting everything.
WW found out I consulted with a lawyer about filing adultery charges .OMW also threatened her .WW went ballistic and started breaking everything in the house.She acted the exact same way on the day of exposure.I couldnt take it anymore so I told her she needs to get out of my life before I kill her.I said you win,you could move back to be with the OM.Isnt that what you want?To my surprise,WW said she is not going anywhere now.WW told her friends and family that I am putting her in great danger by cooperating with the OMW to put her in jail.WW is also concerned OMW will harm her physically.WW is so deep in this A that I feel she would not be able to forget the OM even if the lawsuit ends the A.WW said the only way she could forget the OM is if the A dies a natural death.If I forcefully separate them,WW will never forgive me and she will always dream about all the great possible things about their relationship.Is that just fogbabble?This has gotten very ugly now.Is it even possible to recover with so much hatred in her towards me?My LB$ balance is almost 0 now.

She's still addicted to her drug.

Don't you think it's time to take Dr. Harley's advice and start to prepare for Plan B?

Are these friends of hers the reunion friends or other friend's? This friends know about the affair?

I asked her to leave after she went smashing stuff in the house but she refused.I tried to restrain her and she said if I hurt her,she will call the cops.I told her she's been wanting to leave,so leave.But she shamelessly said she is not going anywhere now.

BH,these are her reunion friends and other friends.She told her close friends only about the A.

I would expose to these friends immediately and tell them the truth about her affair.

You need to protect yourself with a VAR because we've had WW's file false charges for DV against them.

You don't have children together, correct?

I think it's time for you to move out and get into Plan B.

WW is planning to leave next month instead of Oct.She used my credit card and bought herself some expensive designer bags .I didnt know until the risk dept of the bank informed me becos they were suspicious of the transaction.WW is also taking the company's laptop with her which I refused.We got into an ugly fight and she calls me petty and stingy even tho she is well aware we are in deep debts.The loans are under my name and she has no regards to how I will deal with the finance.How do you Plan A something like this?She has become this unreasonable selfish monster.i know many blames the fog but could it be true that maybe WW has these character flaws but i just never saw it?

Quoted for fog babble.

So let me get this straight, the OM says it's wrong to go behind someone else's back.

How does he justify his affair? After all, affairs are the ultimate going behind someone else's back.

Your WW agrees with OM, again, how can she live with the double standard?

I keep thinking I will have heard it all from waywards, but they keep thinking up new ways to display their affair addled hypocritical views.

Thats all I hear everyday,their justification of the affair.OM thinks he is saving WW from a broken M .He tells people this has nothing to do with him and if WW were really in love with me,there wouldnt be any A.
Another that should be quoted for fog babble.... She wants to improve the odds of a successful relationship with OM by studying MB concepts.She knows affair partners have a small chance of succeeding but she will take the chance even if its just 1%.

Update:My lawyer will file adultery charge against OM and WW.He also suggest filing criminal and civil together.He is suing both OM and WW for an exorbitant amount of money.He said he wants to stress them out even though the figure will not be awarded.I am still in plan A and WW is still living with me.The court will summon WW to fly back to her home country to appear in court and the whole process could take up to 6 months.I am worried about separating with WW for such a long time...could be 6 months.Do I maintain contact with WW after she moves out?Or do I go into plan B?WW has packed up her stuff and is planning to move out anyway.The summon from the court would force her to move back right away.I am also concerned that she and her family would think I am suing for money instead of for the marriage.

She wants to improve the odds of a successful relationship with OM by studying MB concepts.

Similar story-lines?

Vlad "The Impaler" Dracula wants to study first-aid.

Hannibal "The Cannibal" Lector wants to study vegan cuisine.

But by all means, we'd LOVE To welcome her here!!!

Oh yes, by all means!!

WW leaving the end of the week.She is moving to be with the OM.I am forced to go from plan A to plan B now.But I am so worn out I cant even get myself to write that plan B letter.I dont want to write a letter saying I still love her when I dont think I do.She got physical few days ago and slapped me.I think I have finally detached myself emotionally.I hired a lawyer to file adultery charges at the OM but am thinking of withdrawing to save myself the legal fees.People keep telling me it's not my wife hurting me but the alien that took her but I've struggled for almost 5 months now and there is no sign of my real wife coming back.
She just told me she has been going through depression but I can hear her singing and laughing in her room right now.

XP,

She got physical few days ago and slapped me...but I can hear her singing and laughing in her room right now.

She is in a state of denial about the impending explosion of her relationship with OM, deep down she understands it is already dead. Help her leave as much as possible, this will hasten the course of nature.

God Bless
Gamma

No.
It is my understanding that Dr Harley does not advocate helping the wayward spouse move out.
Let her move out on her own.

Just copy the plan B letter from Surviving an Affair.
You are in plan A until she leaves.
Then EVERYTHING changes.
Be polite and living until she leaves.
If she slaps you again call the police

You think I should still give her the plan B letter even though theres not much desire to R ?

My thought is give her the plan B letter to give her a direction home if the situation ever clears up. But once you are in plan B, it's not about her anymore, it's about you getting away from the drama and taking care of yourself. Cutting yourself off from her completely. It's about you calming down your life and getting YOUR business in order, with or without her.

Do you have everything in place for plan B as soon as she leaves? And IM chosen and set up? Ready to change locks on the door? Ready to block e-mails, change phone numbers?

I was also curious a few pages back reading how adultery is against the law. I never new that; I thought in one of Dr. Harleys video it says adultery laws went out 20 years ago. Maybe you are outside the U.S.?

She is moving back to her home country.I dont have IM chosen.
I am outside of U.S and adultery is a criminal offence in her home country where the A took place.I was reading your thread and would strongly recommend you to file charges.Dr Harley is a huge advocate of lawsuits in the case of adultery.He recommended that I sue the OM.

Are you going to sue OM?

Hi BH,

I retained a lawyer and provided him with all my evidence.I got a loan to pay the legal fees but am now vacillating about it.Whats the point if I dont think I love her anymore?

Hi XP,

I was wondering how you were doing, my friend.

How about it's because you'd be taking a stand against adultery? It will teach them that's it wrong what they're doing to two families. If you have a lawsuit against them it will cause them so much turmoil in their lurve nest.

BH,you are right,it puts a smile on my face when I think about all the chaos and he77 the lawsuit could bring to their fantasy land but at what costs?WW slapped me few days ago and that was the last straw.We were arguing and she got physical.I wanted to hit back and throw her out of my home.I immediately prayed to calm down.Otherwise,I would have done something I would regret. Dr H does recommend suing and said of all the cases he counseled ,lawsuits always ended the affairs.Thats why I went ahead and hired a random lawyer I found online.I've been communicating with the lawyer for several weeks online.I have told him to just hold on .

Good I'm glad you are going to sue OM.

Did you report her physical abuse? I would go down and make a report with the police.

Her AO and abuse is intolerable, my friend.

I havent decided to sue or not,BH.I am not sure if its still worth to save whats left of the M.

Then what do you have to lose if you file the case?

I lose $$$.I took out a loan for the legal fees.WW is going to leave me with loans we took out together but in my name.She used my credit card and rang up lots of bills just before she is about to leave.

If you are truly done with your serial cheating wife then don't file the lawsuit and go further in debt unless it will help you in your divorce lawsuit.
Have you filed for divorce yet?
You need to make sure you are either (a) Done with her and ready to divorce her and never see her lying cheating sorry persona again or (b) if there is any doubt then sue and enter Plan B

As the date of her moving out is approaching ,I thought I would have a nervous break down.But the Lord gave me peace.I also feel that I have somewhat emotionally detached myself. I ask myself everyday what you have asked me.Do I have any doubts?Will I regret?I dont know....but in a way,I am glad Plan A is over.No more disrespect,AO ,lies and secrets.
I havent filed for D yet.

WW leaving is in 8 hours to be with OM.I cant bring myself to write that plan B letter now.Can I send her that letter on a later date?

yes, you can send the Plan B letter to her after she has left.
It is probably best to.
I think you should just leave and come back after she's gone.

XP,

WW leaving is in 8 hours to be with begin her process of disillusionment and alienation from OM.

Wait 2 weeks that should be long enough for her to begin to realize what a cesspool she fell into. Sending the letter then will be like her finding her lifeboat riddled with holes, can you say maximum psychological impact?

You can implement Plan B before you send the letter, that way you get 2 shots from the same howitzer.

God Bless
Gamma

File for D and go into Plan B at the same time.

1st day of plan B.Very emotional.WW was packing up and found love letters we wrote to each other many years ago.
I dont snoop or view her fb in plan B right?Out of sight ,out of mind?

exactly

Update:I broke Plan B and talked to WW who is still very wayward and foggy.
A sudden turn of events....OMW who has been hiding suddenly showed up and exposed on FB,she has 800+friends.She didnt private messaged each of them,she posted on her wall!!
My lawyer will start court proceeding to sue OM and WW criminally and civilly for adultery.OMW will join me to sue as well.I am suing OM and WW.OMW is just suing WW.I have made a deal with my lawyer that the conditions on the civil case such as the suing amount /settlement amount on OM will be entirely up to the lawyer but on WW it would be up to me.So I could sue WW for $1 or $1 Million and settle for whatever amount I wish .The reason I made that deal because my lawyer works on a % from the settlement amount and he would certainly attempt to clean out the bank accounts of OM but I dont wish him to do that to WW.I am also requesting that I set the conditions on the civil case of OMW vs WW.However,OMW is asking that she gets to decide on the conditions on OM now.Should I work with OMW on this?Should I just tell her to sue on her own and not use my evidence?The lawyer suggests that OMW and BH suing together would be more powerful but it also gets complicated.Do you follow,I'm not sure if I've made it clear enough?
I wish rainysweet and jah could update us,esp rainysweet becos last I heard she is also suing.

Wow good for you for giving them such consequence. I would think it more powerful to join forces with OMW, especially if she is on the same page as you. Almost sounds like she might be a member of this forum by the steps she is taking...

What should I do now??
My lawyer is asking for x amount as compensation to settle out of court and the OM surprisingly said yes without any hesitation!I am baffled now that I dont know what to do.....I was told usually the OM would bail and break up with the WW.
My lawyer also asked me to sue my wife for compensation.His reasoning and experience tells him that if we cause them financial trouble,they will more likely to cave in.But my lawyer also gets paid on a % of the compensation.You think thats a good idea?Would my WW hate me even more?

x, something's a little confusing here. At first it seemed like you and your lawyer understood about heaping as much turmoil on the affair as possible with lawsuits, but now he's offering to settle out of court for an obviously meager enough settlement that the POSOM jumped at it?

Sounds to me like your lawyer used all the right words on you to get the ball rolling, but is now trying to do whatever he can to get a quick, sure thing payday that really isn't in your best interest.

Am I reading this right, or am I missing something?

Lawyer explained to me that altho the adultery charge is punishable by a jail term,its usually replaced with a fine,an affordable one too.He claims that based on experience,suing for an exorbitant amount would wreak enough havoc to cause them to cave.OM didnt object to the amount yet but my lawyer thinks he is just trying to buy more time.We may still start the court proceedings but my lawyer is tempted to settle.We had a deal instead of a hefty legal fee,he gets a % on top .That was the only way he would take on the case.Dr H told me of all the cases he handled with lawsuits,the affair ended.He worked with an attorney that threatened the lawsuit, and in every case, it killed the affair.

I would not let him settle and get him to stretch it out as long as possible, especially if OMW is going to be attacking from her end. Has the OMW filed yet? If not, I wouldn't settle a thing right now. Still sounds to me like your lawyer is just trying to get what he can for him as quick as he can.

JMO

Part of following the plans is no expectations. You can hope and work to blow up the affair but there are no guarantees. Do what you're doing because it's the right thing, the noble thing and work to let go of 'expecting' it to have certain results.

The good news is that this guy has now bought your wife. She's going to be indebted to him and the resentment will be there, lurking in the shadows. She's going to have to be more of what he wants and that's hard.

But again, it doesn't really serve you to follow any line of thinking about what might or might not happen over there. Focus on you, your healing and unhooking from your wayward wife. She might come back but you can't wait for that. Get busy living.

Plan B is for you. To recover. Part of that is really removing your attention from what you think is happening over there.

You see, I thought I was in Plan B...but with all this still hovering over me,i cant find peace yet.I am not sure what plan I am in.Thats what my lawyer said,OM will regret paying a price for WW one day.
TW,I had a deal with the lawyer that I have the final say on WW but not OM.I am suing them both.Lawyer could settle out of court with OM only .OMW hasnt filed yet.I asked if I could have the final say on WW but she refused unless I let her decide for OM as well.Do you follow?

I see what I missed now. But I still don't understand why he feels the need to settle so quickly. The longer it's drawn out, the more the pressure builds. Just because he's satisfied with the settlement amount doesn't mean he has to jump right away.

I agree.

XP can you handle dragging it out?

Yes,I actually want them to go thru the whole proceeding.I want to see OM&WW explain themselves in front of the judge.Lawyer doesnt really care whether I save my M or not.I should have made it clear that there is no settling out of court.But then again he prolly wouldnt agree.He was concerned if he was going get paid or not.

BH,I can handle dragging it out with my WW only but not OM.Lawyer gets to decide about the OM.

Am I the only person who is actually suing for A on MB?Havent heard back from rainysweet yet......

No, you're not the only one, but the number is very small. But that's, unfortunately, only because it's simply not an option for most people here. If it were, I bet you'd see lawsuits flying around here like ping-pong balls in a lottery machine.

TW ,do you have links to their stories?How did they turn out eventually?

Other than rainysweet, I don't recall any other names besides yours. Sorry. There are some that could have, but fear kept them from pulling the trigger.

Just feeling really down here.I was doing great 2 weeks into plan B until I started the lawsuit.Now I am in plan L which is very emotional esp when I have to deal with my lawyer who just wants to settle for some quick cash instead of dragging them thru the courts.

Sorry xp the legal stuff can be a drag.

What kind of things are you doing for yourself?

Thanks BH.The legal stuff is a drag.I feel particularly lonely these few days.I couldnt really relate to anyone on this board as it seems I am the only one going at it with a lawsuit.
I am not in the mood to do anything for myself right now...

Hi XP, I can empathise about the lows... have hit one myself.

I have found the legal stuff can act as a trigger. It means the betrayed has to think of the wayward, and gets insights into what is going on for the wayward. What has had the most impact is it has allowed WH an opportunity to communicate with me. Some of the rubbish he spouts throws me off for a while.

Since you are doing a true art of war legal battle... well, I imagine this will have a greater potential to slow your Plan B healing.

So it is even more important to do nice things for yourself. I knew a low was coming... and I haven't been able to stop it fully. So I took myself off for a massage, it helps me relax.

Find something that works for you. Still allow yourself to have the low, it is part of the process, but look for healthy ways to lessen the impact and keep moving forward. Look at what you think might be triggering the low, so you can try and reduce this happening again in future (although some things we can't avoid and just have to deal with as best we can).

I'm so sorry XP.

Please listen to the wonderful advice Caracal has given you and please take care of yourself.

How is your support system IRL?

Thank you for your words,Caracal and BH.I had to go over all the evidence (chat msg) and hi-lite the critical parts.Lots of triggers.The pictures as well.
I spoke with WW and her fog is thicker than before.Sometimes I feel I have no idea what I'm doing.I am not sure if this is what I really want.Is it normal to feel this way?I think I did it partly because Dr H told me the threat of a lawsuit ended all the affairs he was involved with.My lawyer called and threatened them but so far,they havent budged.
BH,what is IRL?I guess going to church and praying would be my spiritual support system.

Very normal to feel this way especially when you had to go back through their garbage.

IRL=in real life

Do you have someone who can filter through the messages for you?

IRL = In Real Life

Going to church and praying are both great. Do you have a couple of good solid friends/family/pastor who know about the A and can be a support with and for you? That's what support IRL would look like.

BH,I dont have an IM to filter the msgs.
LWFH,my closest friends dont know about the A.Ironically ,the OMW has a been a great support.I guess we are both in the same boat so we know how each other feels.

Why haven't you disclosed the A to your closest friends? They can be support for you...that's what close friends do. Is the lawsuit filed yet? And I would not trust OMW in a legal battle either.

Hey xp, how are things?

I agree with BR that your closest friends should know. I can't imagine how isolated you must feel trying to go this alone. People who truly care for you will want to know.

As for OMW... be careful here. As BR says, in a lawsuit it may become every man or woman for themselves. But also, you need to keep your boundaries very high right now. Both of you as betrayed spouses are extremely vulnerable, and LB$ by someone of the opposite sex who understands what you are going through is likely.

We don't want to see you become wayward.

BR,I have retained a lawyer and has given him all the evidence.I flew to meet him last month .The lawyer threatened them and is trying to settle for $$ .I told the lawyer that I want them dragged through the courts but lawyer wants to settle as he works on a % of the settlement.
OMW is asking if I could share with her the evidence I have.She has nothing.She needs those evidence in order to file.But she is only suing WW and not OM because she has retained a lawyer already for D.
What do u mean I shouldnt trust OMW in a legal battle?What could go wrong?Should I share the evidence with her?

caracal,i dont have many friends here and my closest friends are back home.I fear if I tell them they wont accept WW if we ever do R.They know about the separation but not the A.I did tell a friend and he has not been supportive at all becos he feels i should just give up and move on.He thinks the lawsuit is a waste of time and money.
Should I let OMW sue with my evidence ?
Yes,I will keep my boundaries very high and having been gone thru what waywards had done to me,i would make absolutely sure I dont become one myself!!

XP,

What evidence is she asking for?

How's your church support group? I'm concerned for you.

Are you having trouble sleeping again?
Are you eating?

Hi BH,

She wants the evidence that I have(prv msg and pics)in order to sue.

Thanks for your concern and kindness BH,Actually people here on MB are my support system too.
I am eating and sleeping ok.Much much better than the weeks after d day.Whenever I think about those times,I want to just give up and move on.Thats why sometimes I have doubts about the lawsuit.I cant risk the chance of a false R or another A.

Well we are all one big support system here. We didn't ask to land here but it's the best place to be.

Well we always tell the BS to give all evidence to OPS, but I think BR's concern is the OMW may turn on you?? Have you asked your lawyer? I think you should help OMW.

Is there anyway it could burn you? BR is rainysweet's IM so maybe she knows something on her AofA case. BR?

quick summary:Been 3 months since WW moved out.Lawsuit filed.I hesitated to share evidence with OMW so she wont be suing WW . I am not sure if I should have shared the evidence.WW and OM will appear in court with my lawyer this week.Lawsuit has put me in a depressing mood again.I was holding up fine until recently when my lawyer started to discuss the lawsuit with me .Plan B was working for me.Out of sight,out of mind.But discussing with the lawyer has brought back the painful memories.
I also have to tell myself not to worry about the outcome of the case.I am not sure if I should continue with the lawsuit.I initially filed becos Dr H told me affairs he had dealt with ended with the threats of lawsuits.My lawyer made threats and actually filed but they are still together.The lawsuit would be meaningless if I no longer wants to R.And I am unsure if I still want to R now.

Sorry you're still dealing with this. Is she living with OM? Will you share evidence now with OM's BW?

What is supposed to be covered in court this week?

Hi BH,how are you?
WW moved out but I dont know where she lives now.OMW wants a divorce so she isnt very motivated to sue now even if I decide to share the evidence with her.
WW and OM will appear in court and give their side of the story.They will be asked to either plea guilty ,settle out of court or fight the case.Lawyer says it really depends on the prosecutor.I am praying for peace and justice.Please pray for me.

I am filing under adultery, which means I am suing the OW. I am doing it because it is the truth and it has ended my marriage. I have no hope for recover, but I have questioned this as well, it is more expensive and at the end of the day my outcome would be the same. I guess I want it on public record. In a sense I want them to be accountable, although in fantasy land, I doubt either of them thinks they did anything wrong.

Hi Mason,I had no idea there are others filing under adultery on the forum.I thought I was the only one.Did you consult with Dr H before you filed?At what stage are you in the process of the lawsuit?

I did not discuss it with Dr. Harley. I am at the begining. I live in NJ which is a fault state, although I am told judges do not care, I do...and I do not want to be responsible for his debt throughout the duration of the affair. It was explained to me that it is almost like a personal injury claim, it will most likely never go to trial, but I want to hold them accountable for breaking up my family. Their excuse is you can't help who you fall in love with, BS and take everyone down with them in the process.
My husband already filed under irreconciable differences. I amd counterfiling under adultery. I hope it is worth every penny.

It has been the advice on this forum for the two years I have been on it. My guess it will not be received well by OW and she may need to at the very least consult an attny of her own. I doubt they will break up over it, but she will now be in the mess of my divorce, as she has made a mess of my life and my boys.

Oh yes, you want that. You want to call the OW on the carpet, in court if possible, about what she did.

Hi Mason,Dr H told me just the threat of a lawsuit would end the affair. He said he had counseled many couples in these situation before the law was thrown out. In every case, it ended the affair and never had to go to court.So lets remain hopeful that your lawsuit might end the affair.
The WS in their fog all think alike.WW and OM also feel they arent doing anything wrong.They cant help but to follow their heart when they are in love(lust).

My husband filed first, so I doubt he will come back, but I would rather him be alone than with OW. He has rarely shown a desire to recover. I am anticipating him just getting angry at me, but he will be angry over the truth.

I do not think my case will end up in court. Like you, I have questioned doing this, but now I feel confident about it.

It is more expensive, if I have to borrow money I will.

Did the OM have to get a lawyer? or are they using your WW's lawyer? Just wondering if they will bond together and fight me.

I dont know if they have a lawyer or not.I will find out this week when they show up in court.WW told me the lawsuit has brought them closer together.They feel their love has grown stronger together in fighting me and OMW.

Keep us posted, I am very interested how your court date workd out. Love made stronger, I have a feeling my WH will feel the same way. Makes me sick! See how great they feel in front of a judge!

I will keep you posted.I am anxious about the court date .I wonder how they are feeling now.They are so deep in the fog,maybe they think the judge will "understand".I want to drag them through the court for as long as I can but my lawyer is keen on settling out of court.

Good Luck.

Mason,pls keep us posted on your lawsuit as well.Have you consulted with your lawyer about filing a civil lawsuit along with the adultery charge?Thats what my lawyer suggested.
You are in my prayer,Mason.

I believe it is a civil suit. As I said before it is similar to a personal injury claim, so if their is any doubt with all of the money he spent during the affair, she will be called as a witness. I am still in the beginning of the process. Just handed over OW address to my attny. hopefully it is current.

Will definetly keep posting. It helps keep me sane!

How did court go?

Hi Mason,how are you?
OMs are all cowards!He didnt show up !Both OM and WW failed to appear in court.I remember WW told me if OM has to testify in court ,he would proudly confess to the judge that he loves WW .He would not defend or fight the adultery charge becos their love is "real".
The court will summon them again.An arrest warrant may be issued if they fail to show up again.
I think they are stalling for as long as they can hoping to wear me out.

It's funny how they're the ones running like hell to avoid court and they think it'll wear YOU out.

Wow, if they are so proud of their love, why did they not want to show the world how great things are....
Keep going and stay strong.

My xWH and his OW both said the same thing ... "Your Exposure and the chit you are putting us through is only making us grow closer." ... She dumped him when the heat got hot, then dragged him along for another nine months, then finally got herself another boyfriend.

xWH nuke bombed it all ... and then some ... for a whore who ended up jumping ship the minute I introduced the iceburg. Cowards ... they can run ... but in the end they are still cockroaches.

Hi BH,how are you?

2nd trial this week.I have a feeling OM and WW will skip out on it again.
How are things on your end?

OM said he was not ashamed about the A but yet ,they are hiding in the dark avoiding court.If they are trying to wear me out,they are doing a pretty job to be honest . I dont see an end to this and this is not a plan from MB. Sometimes I have no idea what/why I am doing.

I haven't read your whole thread xtremepain but have you been in/considered Plan B? Sounds like you are subjected to a lot of crap, for lack of a better word (that won't be edited). Plan B would protect you from that.

I was in plan B for just a short while.
Out of sight.Out of mind.I was at peace until I decided to file the lawsuit.I have to recall the details of the painful experiences over and over again with the lawyer.The lawsuit is like a dark cloud hovering over my head that wont go away.

Hey XP.

Are you struggling with the choice to keep the lawsuit? Is it too much pain?

Is the D complete?

xp, I feel for you, you sound like you are longing for the peace of a dark Plan B.

I am unsure where you are at... are you having direct contact with WW? When you say you are no longer in Plan B, why? I am unsure if this refers to the lawsuit causing cracks by discussing WW with your lawyer, or other sorts of contact

Please explain your sitch better... we may be able to offer advice.

Caracal,I dont have any direct contact with WW.I say I am not exactly in plan B becos I have to constantly deal with OM and WW through the lawyer.Plan B is also about protecting the betrayed spouse and for personal recovery which I dont think I have.
BH,yes,i am struggling with the choice to keep the lawsuit.Sometimes I just feel like giving up since I 'm unsure if I still want to R with WW .But I tell myself Ive gone so far to stop now.

I am sorry for your position. I am at a stand still, with the Hurricane in the Northeast it really slowed things up.
I would see what happens at the next court hearing and then revealuate. Aside from the lawsuit where are you in the divorce process?
I am still grieving, but I still have more better days than sad days. I think the holidays are a trigger.

xp, I am not filing a lawsuit, but only because my country does not allow it! I would LOVE to have been able to hit POSOW with some reality of her actions.

In saying that, I also know that each time I get a legal letter from WH regarding property settlement, it hurts. It IS a crack in Plan B. It allows WH an opportunity to spout his wayward ideals, and even through legal channels, he keeps blameshifting onto me. I have heard oh so many foggy reasons why we should not split assets (since he has them!!!) Including an "I told Caracal to split this when we were married!" (when we are not yet divorced, and apparently "telling" me when I had a mortal wound means he is no longer accountable). So although you have taken on more than I legally, know that if a BS is to stand up for their rights and what is morally right, there will be cracks. We can't escape it unless we become enablers and cave to the wayward demands.

It hurts less and less though. Maybe desensitised? I feel I am healing, and keeping myself busy helps so I don't dwell on the wayward. I also tried to keep legal stuff to a certain time each day. I would only spend 30 minutes on it, and then try to "file" it. I also found treating myself afterwards, a favourite coffee, bubblebath, anything to take my mind off the alien.

I really feel for you, fighting this legal and moral fight. I know I keep reminding myself that it will end...

What positive things / indulgences do you have in life? Even simple things... taking the dog for a walk, etc?

Hi Caracal,it does hurt less and less.I am desensitized to a point of being so numb that I have no idea why I am still pursuing the lawsuit.I no longer get emotional every time the lawyer calls or sends me an email .I have detached emotionally and the lawsuit now just feels like a project I need to complete.But I am not willing to spend another dime on it.OM and WW finally showed up in court.They remained silent during the whole process.They simply exercised their rights to keep their mouth shout.They are trying to drag this for as long as they can until I throw in the towel.
I just want to say Merry Xmas to all you out there.I feel for you and will continue to pray for you.I want to thank the ones who have helped ,supported and encouraged me since day 1.You know who you are.....I still remember the condition I was in when I found this site.Still get shivers just thinking about it.
I went caroling on Xmas eve and havent been this happy for a long time.God Bless you.

Yet they don't show up and when they do the refuse to speak.

You are giving them a dose of reality. Already the OM is letting down your WW from him willingly testifying to he refuses to say a word.

Even if you lose in court I bet the OM and WW will split up because of this within one year.

Hi everyone,it's been quite awhile since I left this forum.
WW and I have not been in contact since the day she left me.
Just a few days ago,she contacted me and apologised for what she had done to me.She s asking if we could discuss about filing a divorce.
During plan b ,I had a friend as a mediator.Am I still in plan b after 3 years?
Should I start talking to her again?

Is she still with OM?

I don't know if they are still together but they are still liking each other's Facebook.

Is it still painful to talk to her? If they're still interacting on FB it may be time to divorce and move on.

I have just skimmed this thread but I do have questions.

It sounds like you filed an Alienation of Affection lawsuit or something similar? What was the outcome of this?

I'm understanding from what you've said that your wife has gone totally dark on you in the last 3 years, no?

Do you still have feelings for her?

As another BH who's been through abandonment and divorce, my $.02 are this:

You've been alone for 3 years. You are legally married but not in a functional relationship with your wife, in my opinion. You were married much longer than I was, but you've also been on your own much longer than I was.

There are lots of good women out there who would be faithful and care for a man who followed MB and showed them extraordinary care. Your wife isn't one of them. 3 years no contact with someone you are legally married to is pretty much inexcusable in my book, even IF they behaved poorly or whatever. If she wanted so desperately to be away from you, she should have filed divorce, don't just leave it in limbo.

Others may advise you to try and win her back and anything is possible, but I am very doubtful. This is not a thoughtful person you are dealing with, at least not towards you. You could try to long-distance Plan A her until the cows come home but until she opens that door in her mind about a relationship with you, it will come to nothing.

Dr. Harley typically advises 6 months to 2 years of Plan A for men, and you're at 3. You could talk to her and get a feel for where she is, maybe this is an opportunity to begin to win her back. But I hesitate to even encourage you to further pursue someone with her track record here, especially since you guys do not have children together. There's simply better fish in the pond.

Yes she has totally gone dark on me in the last 3 years.I told her not to contact me when she left.
I don't have much feelings for her .At least I'm not emotionally attached anymore.
I have no plans to win her back.Im just a bit upset because I feel she may not be very insincere in her apology to me.She is only apologising because she is asking me for a favour to proceed with D.

You very likely will never get a sincere apology from her. Just divorce her an move on with your life.