Last night I robbed her Love Bank and now I feel I may have blown all my work trying to better myself. Hopefully just by writing this I can see hope.
Just over 2 months ago my OH admitted to a PA and told me she loves me but is not in love with me. She told me affair had ended but our marriage is over. She chose to move to spare room. The hard part is we do not hate each other and are still great friends (she says we've been like roommates for years). At the time of the revelation we had both been drinking and the next morning I took an overdose of painkillers to spite her. She pleaded with me to get help but I only did 24 hours later when my head cleared. I have not drunk since. About 3 years ago we had short in house separation following my failure to make her feel wanted and appreciated. This time I looked for advice and found MB. I thought I could build me Love Bank deposits and work on surviving the affair but was met with resistance. She was adamant to stay as friends and her behaviour aroused my suspicion. I checked her phone and found affair to be continuing. I exposed affair to family and friends. The OM works out of city but have exposed to his ex wife. My OH exposed much of it herself referring back to issues of my negligence.
Yesterday we had a great time together as normal going out for walks coffee dinner etc. Last night she told me she was going out. She looked me in the eyes waiting for me to object as she knew I knew she was going to see OM. I stayed calm knowing a scene would withdraw from the Love Bank. However over the course of the evening I sent her messages(some nice some nasty,depending on how my emotions were flowing) to show how its destroying me. I felt impotent doing nothing yet evil for trying to hurt. When she came home I apologised for trying to inflict pain and tried to explain I cannot tolerate affair even if she feels we are just friends. I reminded her she is still my wife even if she feels we are just friends. She deflected issue of affair and my pain citing the pain I have caused her over the years through neglect. She has noticed my efforts lately but tells me its too little too late (better late than not at all I feel). I know she still has love for me but I keep disrespecting her and failing to keep up with my efforts at change. I know I'm slowly driving her to hate me when I blow up about affair. I know I need to swallow it for now and compete. I know Love is patient. How do I remain patient?

How many affairs has she had? What was your previous posting name?

Was gtop this is my first post. Only this affair I know of. I do know before our 10 year history she had a fling with OM when he was married and he has always been 'sniffing' around but until recently she has always actively avoided contact. She lost her job and was home a lot leaving him opportunity while I was working and admittedly ignoring her at a time she needed me most. I feel I have fully exposed as much as possible and even had discussions with her family who do not condone it.

Is she your wife or live-in partner?

She is my wife of 6 years. Further to exposure I found most people already knew. It's as if she was already planning an exit strategy or a way of justifying it to herself.

Bluebeck, when you say that your WW "exposed much of it herself" what do you mean? Do you mean she spun the truth to some people? Did you talk to those people yourself and tell them the truth?

When you "exposed" what did you say to these people?

Does the OM have a facebook page?

Looking back I procrastinated too much and allowed her to reveal affair after news of seperation. The impact of exposure was not as great as required. She admits PA started shortly before separating. Any further discussions with people of influence seems like sour grapes. Although a lot of support has come in to not make it easy for her. I believe she is that much in the fog even front page news would not rattle her. As for Fb and social media he is not involved.
When I exposed I said to people that she has been having an affair but she has been complaining about my neglect long before affair and it seems it has just got us to the separation quicker.

I explained who affair was with her admission and how long it had been going on. Some knew OM always been lurking on the fringes.

But you are not "separated." You still live together.

And even if you were truly "separated" that does not entitle her to commit adultery. "Separation" means MARRIED!

If I walk into the garage and declare myself "separated" does that mean I am entitled to commit adultery? And does it mean I am "separated?" Of course not. That is delusional.

I would stop going along with the cute "separation" illusion game and DEMAND that stop all contact with the OM or this is going to end in divorce. DEMAND that she stop communicating with the OM. Put a stop to this.

Do everything in your power to unleash holy hell on this POS. Expose his filthy affair to his family, friends, employer, everyone. Confront him and tell him the affair is over.

I will try that stunt on my husband tonight and see if it works. I will waltz out to the garage and pronounce myself "separated." I will then call up some old boyfriends and get a date!

I will let you know how well that flies!

I have read exposure 101 again and I have more ticks in the mistakes section! Yes we are still living together house and mortgage in her name, which is always a good throw back from her if arguing. Why don't I leave, how much do I want, which is said in spite as she knows its not about money. This is our home, which she knows and it seems she keeps slipping from her mindset of we are separated as we often discuss future plans for home improvement and even holidays with her family (as friends). Cake and eat it comes to mind. I think I know where I am here. Needing to compete, being the better man, being the gentleman. My biggest issue is controlling my temper. I'm not violent but manipulative emotionally .

Guess I need to grow a set first

Can I ask the purpose of pretending you are separated? I agree that you shouldn't leave, but don't understand the pretend separation game. Is the purpose so she can feel better about committing adultery?

And are you reading my posts about exposing to the OM's friends and family on facebook?

Yes reading posts about exposing OM as I said before he is not on any Social media but have been in contact with his ex for assistance. He is a slippery one to get hold of. Yes I believe she is doing this to feel better about adultery. It seems the more I confront the affair the more I push her away.

Next step would be to follow her when she goes to meet him!!

I would find the contact information for his family and friends. Keep searching on social media, linkedin is one source. And check and see if he has you blocked.

You can also get information about his family from his ex. If you can get the names of his kids, parents, or any of them, you could find their facebook pages and find his family members that way and expose to him.

This answer is unclear to me.

Have you ever posted on the MB forum under a different name? If so, what was that name?

No never posted before thankfully

Sorry changed from gtop immediately after first post!

Trying to track down OM is tricky as has a very common name. Also have cell number but blocked! Ex proving to be unwilling to get involved even though explained trying to save marriage (young kids an issue). Im still persisting with exposure and like I say other than follow wife confrontation face to face difficult!

Finish exposure to all of OM married friends and family. If you belong to a church, expose there also.
You should also expose on www.cheaterville.com.

Finish exposure ASAP, then demand that she ends her affair.
If she refuses then I would ask her to move out because this is horrible, for her to dress up and tell you she's going on a date with OM. It is evil disgusting behavior.

Who has young children? You or OM?

Tell her you need to contact his parents because you are trying to save your marriage.

Do you have a picture of this loser?

You need to try harder to track him down. Don't give up so easily. Go search his EX's facebook page to see if you can find any of his relatives. Then go to that relatives page and find his family members.

We can't have kids another issue of ours.
Tried searching OM before but I will continue trying. Want immediate results but can't have them! No pictures but will try to find/get.
Can't get her to move out if I wanted property all in her name, she is not exactly flaunting it but rubbing my nose in it all the same.

SHE is trying to save her marriage?? What is she doing to end the affair in that case? Does she understand the affair is ongoing?

Will she help you in killing the affair?

Or did you mean you are trying to save the marriage?

Can you call her up and tell her you are trying to save your marriage and ask her for contact information for OM's family? Would she give it to you?

Told her trying to save my marriage hers ended years ago and only contact is through the kids. She is unwilling to get involved. My wife was friends with her once!

Did she flat-out refuse to give you contact info for him?

How do you come to have contact with his ex but no details for him?

Wants nothing to do with him.
My wife due back any minute, I have spoken to her briefly today and its going to be a frosty night!

Ex on Fb but limited profile

She won't help you? All she has to do is give you the name and contact info of his parents and family. They don't have to EVER know that intel came from her.

Awaiting reply from ex. Although not hopeful. How should I behave around wife tonight? Probably be on here with her not talking to me! And what if ex can't help and further exposure not possible?

Ok she's just come in mad as hell not wanting to talk to me telling me she doesn't care about my opinion because I was nasty to her last night. I restated the issue isn't our friendship but the affair. We are still married its still adultery. I said if we are meant to be friends we shouldn't hurt each other. She came back with she's had enough of the hurt I've caused her over the years and why should she have to put up with this in own home. I explained our home regardless of deeds money etc. my issue isn't about money but that she's carrying on affair right under my nose. Voices were getting raised so I told her I'm moving to another room until she's ready to talk. Again she threatens to sell house and move back with her mother. I tell her she's the one now being nasty about things I'm trying to remain polite and civil. She however is still angry saying she's got enough friends. So here I sit alone waiting for her to calm down or probably go out!

She also commented that I've made efforts over the past few weeks because I knew another man was on scene and couldn't be bothered to care before. I admitted I did care but didn't show it. Too little too late she says and I reply better late than not at all. I remain committed to saving our friendship but not at the cost of her affair. Her birthday Thursday what a build up!

Are her kids visible?

You know, your short, rather cryptic posts are hard work. We have to keep posting again to ask you what you mean.

A post to this forum isn't a text message. You can write in proper sentences. The more fully you answer our questions, the more relevant advice we can give.

My posts are cryptic because I'm on my phone guess its a habit thing. Must read that section again. Her kids too young for FB. The ex has a closed profile due to job, will not accept friend request.

Bluebeck, can you please stop posting her fogbabble and focus entirely on blowing up this affair? The most important thing is your plan to ruin the affair and run the OM off.

You wouldn't want to friend reequest him! If you found him can you sign out and see if you can see his account? He may have you blocked. You need to get his friends list. Can you see that?

Do you have the books Love Busters and also Surviving an Affair?

If not, please get them today.

While you are working on busting up this A and exposing, you have to stop love busting her. Why would she want to be with someone so disrespectful to her?

You have to be calm and cool. Don't ever have another angry outburst again.

Also, if you don't listen to MB Radio, please do so. There is a phone app and you can listen to the daily broadcasts that loop until the next day.

Right now best you can do is try to expose and break up the A and DO NOT LOVE BUST HER! Focus on yourself.

As I understand it you do not have kids. I just want to check that you want to save this marriage despite that fact.

While marriage is marriage regardless of kids, and the unfaithful spouse knows that vows made before God and the community should be honoured, there is a sense in which the existence of children usually creates an additional powerful dilemma for the unfaithful spouse. An unfaithful parent knows that she should not be breaking up the children's home and family, and sees and has to ignore the heartbreak in the children's faces if they insist on doing so. Family and friends are likely to put strong pressure on the unfaithful parent to think about their kids, and if that parent can bring themselves to do so, they know that the affair partner is the worst stepparent (a difficult enough role) that they could inflict on their kids. They know that their kids will have a bad effect on the new love-nest, that the new relationship all be beset with conflict and that, simply, they should stop their affair and rebuild the marriage.

When there are no kids, the unfaithful spouse might not feel any of those dilemmas, and neither in this day and age might their extended family. They family might argue that if the way wards is unhappy then it's best to start again. Without strong social pressure to rebuild the marriage, the wayward has nobody to tell them that they are on a path to hell.

So looking at it from her point of view rather than yours, if she is pretty much out of the door, having convinced herself to eat pray and love her own happiness, there is very little to pull her back in.

With her seeming to have finished with the marriage (rather than being conflicted and unhappy at hurting you), you have an unequal struggle on your hands to bring her back to it. Do you want to try and do so?

Sorry the ex is his ex. His ex is on Fb with a closed profile. No love busting and staying calm has been my mission even when she goads me. Every time I slip I try to try a little harder each time. I will keep at it with getting the OM and keep fighting the fog

Great on the effort!

However you are in for the fight of your life. You can't afford to make any more LB withdraws like you are doing. None. Each time you do, you validate her decision to get away from you.

Most likely your account with her is in the red. If you doing the things that made her lose her love for you in the first place, you stand little chance of winning her back.

Showing her that you CAN and WILL change creating a different future can help motivate her to try.

Believe me I know...

Sugarcane yes I want to save this marriage. Kids a major issue for us. A failed pregnancy and subsequent inability to ever have kids has been the start of problems between us. One thing that keeps the friendship going when the love is missing is family. She has nieces that adore us both and we adore them and under all the issues even if we were to part our ways she would never have me lose contact.

While I applaud your efforts to save your marriage, I also suggest you start to protect yourself legally. What do your laws have to say about divorce due to adultery, for example?

Will look at 'mim'. Law states divorce for adultery has a 6 month limit unless affair is continuing.

Arguing that you find affair unacceptable especially as it coincided with her decision to seperate regardless of me not giving her enough attention (even though she told me on many occasions I was ignorant). Is this a love buster or me fighting through her fog?

May have to further research legal options as I reminded her we are still married and it is adultery. So she brought up divorce which I refused! Need to expose OM as she is seeming less secretive about it now. That or the wine she's drunk!

The reason your wife wants to [pretend] "separate" is so she will be free to carry on her affair. She is saying she didn't get enough attention to justify her affair and blame it on you. The reason she is having an affair is because she has pisspoor boundaries around men..

If getting attention from you is her problem, does it make any sense she would go out of her way to avoid you in a pretend "separation?" Do you not see how irrational that is?

It also seems she keeps putting the 'just leave' or 'let's divorce' balls in my court so if I do follow through with either the blame is back on me.

At this point, you need to focus on exposure.
Divorce is a natural consequence of adultery; if she wants to play the role of an adulteress then divorce may be the only option left to you.

However, you need to expose to give this a shot at saving before pulling the plug.

How old are the nieces you mention?
When you expose, they need exposed to also (if they are older than 5)

Nieces are under 5 and most family and people of influence are out of town. I may have come to the exposure too late and only getting a 'trickle' effect. Struggling to expose OM and feel I'm fighting a losing battle. I will strive to remain calm and hang in there as she's trying to get me to make the decisions so she can lay blame at my door.

After reading some of the previous posts I realise I have not exposed affair as much as I can. She has threatened divorce, sell the house end our friendship. But not even thought about ending affair, even says she doesnt care who knows. So I have tried again using the template letter in 'Exposure 101' and reached out to close friends and family. Otherwise I'm still looking at divorce or a shambles of a marriage!

Have you done a proper facebook exposure? This is war and unfortunately the affair and your wife are your enemies. You need to plan an assault on this affair to have a chance at saving your marriage. Take some time (not too much) and plot out all exposure targets. Friends, family, kids if you have them and Church if you go. However, don't forget about POSOM side as well exposure is a two pronged attack that works when used without anger and warnings.

Messaged all I could that could have influence. Already been messaged by her sister who knows all that's happening saying she didn't think it was a good idea. But wife already told her there were marriage issues before admitting affair. I'm working late tonight, may well find myself locked out.

Put a gps tracker in her car and follow her the next time she hooks up with the POSOM. Confront him and tell him its over.

After doing that, you will need to take a stand with your wife. Tell her you will not tolerate her having an affair. You will have to separate for real. Normally, I would say don't leave the house. Make her leave since she is the one having an affair. But since the house is in her name, you will have to leave. Since she is not working, she won't be able to pay the mortgage. That is one of the costs of the affair.

I don't think lovebusters has been your biggest problem. Your biggest problem is that you have enabled the affair by not setting limits with your wife. Confronting her about the affair is not lovebusting. Being upset about it isn't love busting, unless you had angry outbursts or levied disrespectful judgments.

So to recap: 1) Confront the other man and let him know that you make his life hell if he doesn't stay away from your wife. No excuses on this. You can easily find him if you honestly try. 2) Time for an ultimatum. She leaves POSOM or you leave her. Time to man up. No more [censored] footing.

Also, buy a VAR to catch her angry outburst. Stay calm, cool, and collected and if she is angry and asks why you did this. Just say your are trying to save your marriage. Remember don't fight fire with fire, you will find yourself in jail if you do. If she gets physical call the police. Her sister doesn't know how to save marriages so don't worry about her reactions. Who did you expose to on POSOM's side?

POSOM, only been able to expose to his ex wife and hoping she will pass on more info to me and his side. Only managed to get a message via cell telling him he may have ruined his marriage but I'm going to fight for mine, told him I don't know where he lives yet or I would confront him myself. 6+ years marriage and twice that in friendship. Not time yet to walk away. And note the anger is coming out here so I can remain calm later! Got 8 hours of work before I face the wife

WE don't care if they are out of town. That makes absolutely no difference at all. All you do is call or email these family members.


Better a trickle than none at all. That was not intended to be an excuse to avoid exposeure entirely.



Yes, you are fighting a losing battle if you won't expose to the OM's contacts.


That is a good idea. But it won't help the situation if you don't expose this affair. You have to be much more proactive than you have been if you want to make it.

My sister in law didnt think Dr. Harley's plan was a good idea either when I exposed...but then again she's not a national expert!

This is worthless. You need to contact them YOURSELF. Hoping that someone who doesn't give a CRAP about your marriage passes it on, IS NOT EXPOSURE. AND HOPE IS NOT A PLAN!!


Talk is cheap! You need to back this up with action, my friend. Go pay him a visit. But more importantly, it is imperative that you expose the affair properly and stop cutting corners. It takes a proactive, serious approach to bust up an affair.

Make sure you expose OM on www.cheaterville.com also.

Have you did a background check on POSOM? That gave me alot of contacts for my exposure. Where does he work? Be inventive seems like your following plan "hope" and not plan "MB". Hope is bolster when used in conjuction with a Plan MB.

Finding the OM is easy. You mentioned your wife meets with him. So put a gps tracker in her car and follow her! How does anyone let their spouse just leave to be with another person and doesn't lift a finger to intervene. SMH. By the way, the message your fogged out wayward wife gets is my husband doesn't care enough or isn't manly enough to do something about it.

GPS not practical she walks to meet him and apart from other night usually out before I finish work. She's away in hotel for her work this weekend and I'm sure he will meet her. Any ideas?

Confront them at the hotel, or hire a PI to watch them.
Try to get pictures so you can post them on www.cheaterville.com and email to family and friends.

When you do, have a VAR, camera and a friend who will insure you don't bash POSOM face in.

Oh and put a voice activated recorder in her car; she probably talks on the phone with him in her car

Most smartphones will function as a GPS, so if she carries a smartphone, you can use that.

Looking now for tracking stuff but law here not helpful if I don't want her to find out

Ok just got home from work. Wife been on the wine as shes mad as hell that I exposed to family and friends on both sides. Here are some of what she said.
How dare you! My family have been messaging me support asking why has your husband done this. Your family have left [censored] comments.Its not a secret. We were over due to 4 years of [censored] you've given me the OM is not a symptom. I've tried to be nice. I'm selling the house how much do you want (There's no money in it even if I were after money)!I want you out by the weekend or I'm seeing lawyer next week to get you out. I'm going to file for divorce. I'm going to bed.

Looking back at her rant. I stayed calm said I'm sorry you feel that way. I was expecting it I was numb, I still am. Her Mother is away until next week so she will not do anything without her advice. Her Mother was one of the first people I told and she told me not to make it easy for wife! I expected the backlash as I read up on it. I guess I'm a little lost now

The greater the bluster is, the more effective the exposure was. It sounds like you did good. Keep your cool, and let the light of day do its job.

Not so easy to keep cool starting to doubt myself. Managed to read her texts/mails going back a while. She was having EA with OM shortly after her decision to separate. It took another month for PA to happen. Seen messages from a lot of friends and family who back her regardless of what I sent. Still you can't unring a bell. Looking through stuff she lost respect for me a long time ago. Whatever happens this site is a great support. I'm still going to hold my head up and stand by what I've done. Maybe I'm seeing her true colours

I'm posting this as a reminder to you. Your wife is in the fog and she is going to say things taht make you doubt your actions. Don't doubt them and don't fall for her claims that the marriage was already over. It was not over since the two of you were and are still married. She is an adulterer no matter what rationalizations she comees up with--and all waywards rationalize.

Now that you have exposed its time to find the POSOM and make him an offer he can't refuse.

Good job keeping your cool. Be patient and kind to her. Angry outbursts or disrepectful judgments will just make her feel justified and will surely drive her away.

In the cold light of day I am conflicted. It seems its coming at me from all sides. I know lots of bluster shows effect. but I know a lot of the bluster she had time to plan ahead of my coming home. I know she is stubborn enough to force me out and divorce. I'm looking down the line at those options. Divorce would be easy selling the house clears mortgage with nothing left and our possessions mean nothing if they,re just mine. Do I go before she turns it ugly to keep the peace and LB deposits. I have told her before fining MB if I were ever to go there would be no contact.

I wonder if its too little too late, I know deep down her love for me has gone and we have been 'housemates with occasional benefits' well over a year. She nearly has me convinced she is doing no wrong. Has exposure blown up in my face as she already has a lot of support, all I'm creating is feuding families.

I do feel good I have done something to address the situation rather than ignore it although I struggle with the verbal conflict. She argues better than me, I stay calm and in keeping calm keep silent.
I try to reaffirm to her I am doing this because I will not tolerate the affair, that she is looking for attention in the wrong places and if our break is to be clean it has to be clean with no distraction of OM. If I do succeed in driving him off will she resent me for it.
Right now I want to text her to see if she how she is. I'm feeling an irrational guilt. Knowing that I keep my hands off the phone.
I'm venting here to try to find some clarity.
Its her birthday tomorrow , I already have her a gift and will add flowers. Its a horrible situation but I still love her.

If i'm going down its going to be with love and not hate.
Confused? Yes I am!

when you exposed, did you let her relatives know that you love them and ask them to please use their influence to save your marriage? That is the objective, and it comes across as nonjudgmental and as simply reaching out for help.

If they are angry at you for exposing, they are wrong. Exposing the truth in an effort to save your marriage is a noble thing, not a bad thing. Nothing your wife can say changes that.

If she asks for divorce then you can do nothing about that. As I said earlier, I would not stay in the house if she chooses to keep in contact with her affair partner. It is too hard to do an affective Plan A and avoid anger and judgment if she is carrying out the affair under your nose.

Profess to her your love, share with her your plan for not just saving your marriage, but building it up to one that is romantic and passionate. Ask her to end her affair, and if she doesn't leave the home. Then, from a distance, do a Plan A that shows you lover her.

Finally, don't argue with her about her affair or the relationship. This will get you nowhere and arguing will equate to LB withdrawals.

I exposed using template from here and any contact I have had has always been backed up with my intention of healing not harming. I have and always will show love and respect for her relatives. I just have to ride it out! Looking at options for Plan A at a distance and ignoring any angry input from relatives on both sides.

Also there is some good stuff in the Plan B template letters. Is it an idea to use some of this if I were to move out without committing to no contact. Eg. I love you but cant live with you carrying on affair under my nose?

I would not plan A from a distance.
If you move out of the home, it should be immediate Plan B.

EDIT: If you Plan A from a "distance", all you will be doing is allowing her to "cake eat." She will be having you meet some emotional needs, and OM meet others.

Dr. Harley typically recommends Plan A for up to six months. However, your wife is actually getting dressed for dates in front of you and I think that Harley would advise Plan B to protect your emotional health and to "freeze" the Love Bank account.

You cannot work on your marriage while her affair is ongoing.

I suggest you prepare for Plan B.

conflicting advice. But both good advice. My situation at present is she wants me out by the weekend. Legally (I am seeking proper advice)I have read a reasonable request if I have somewhere to go (hello mother) is 28 days. I will ride it out for now being careful of any conflicts. If and when I do go I think I need it to be amicable so I can employ either plan. This is no time for me to be tossing coins

I would not amicably separate.
Dr. Harley would probably recommend Plan B if you separate.
Also, if she leaves the house, Dr. Harley recommends that you do not help a spouse pack boxes, etc.

Also, you say she wants you out by the weekend.
She's not a judge so she cant tell you what to do.
If you are concerned about conflicting advice, I encourage you to email Dr. Harley directly for his advice: mbradio@marriagebuilders.com

You note that the house and mortgage are in her name but if the purchase was made after you married her, it is marital property. That means that neither can force the other to leave. You might want to consider this from a tactical standpoint as making her move in with the OM will definitely kill the affair faster. You would need to be in a position to pay the mortgage and taxes alone in the event she just stops making payments. Even though the mortgage is in her name, a foreclosure will impact both of you.

Also, as I am sure your lawyer will tell you, possession is 9/10ths of the law. If you move out, she can do what she wants with the house. My XH cleaned out the house after I left. Took everything including stuff I inherited from my grandmother. Furniture and paintings I left there so that the place would look good when it was being shown for sale. I have still not been able to get any of it back.

That was pretty dumb of me but our divorce was by then in its third year and he would not move out. Only do this if WW goes.

I see you are doing a good job of exposing the A. Don't be distracted by her anger now. It is expected.

I hope that you have a good understanding of Plan A.

Breaking up the A is only 1/2 of the formula at this point. Without the other half, your strategy most likely won't be effective.

What are you doing to SHOW her that if she would come back into the M that things would be any different than before?

House a complicated issue. Wife currently in the process of remortgage. Part of the application states anyone over 18 living in house needs to give consent. Her Mother loaned us 50k to buy and placed a legal charge so property will not be sold without her consent. Remortgage nearly covers loan and leaves no equity in property. I will not just up and leave. I need to stay while I find out the legal options

Do not give your consent unless your lawyer thinks this is a good strategy. I presume you are refinancing to pay off other debts? Sometimes that is not the wisest course of action.

Once you leave, even if it is only to stay with your mother for a month, she will be able to claim that you abandoned the house. Getting back in/your stuff out of there later will be tough.

I will not leave unless legally ordered to. I will not cause her problems or give her excuse to further blame me. Looking at the figures more the refinancing is to pay back her Mother and if the house were sold there would be some left, not much but some.
As for the conflicting advice over Plan A and B its something to think about as I have not left.

Just email Dr. Harley for direction.
If you include your name and phone number, he may have you on his radio show and then you could speak with him directly.

Email sent

Good. He usually responds within a day.

I got my response and its simply move from A to B no variation of the plans. As she is still very angry and embarrassed by the exposure any efforts apart from avoiding angry outbursts and disrespectful judgements are pretty much being ignored. This will not shake my resolve to remain pleasant.
Over the past few weeks she has noticed my efforts to show I can change even if she has lost sight of that now. I however feel better in myself for making an effort to improve myself. As for leaving the home, not yet. Legally she cannot make me unless I'm a risk of violence or abuse. D day may come or the time to move to Plan B but for now I must weather the storm

It is a good practice to keep a recorder on you at all times, in case she tries to falsely accuse you of a crime

Hi Blubeck, could you explain what you mean move from A to B no variation of the plans? Did Dr Harley suggest going to plan B now?

In my case I asked if I left should I still use plan A even if I wasn't in the home. Or if I left use plan B. If I were to leave plan B would be my best option.

Incidentally how do you deal with OH who doesn't want to speak to you or have you speak to them? She's still angry and expected me to of moved out already.

Found out her sister followed up my exposure to her side stating our marriage was already in trouble (true) and affair is not the cause of problems. Now most of her family angry with me for sending my message. The focus has moved off the affair (which will still continue) and back to our marriage problems. Wife dead set against any reconciliation or chances to talk and is being bolstered by 'her side' as my sides opinion/influence does not matter. Ultimatum given that I can take some cash and walk away or stay and immediate divorce/legal proceedings begin. She is willing to sell house and both be left with nothing. It's true exposure left too late can be ineffective. Rock and hard place. She's willing to admit adultery for divorce and is showing no shame in it. Im staying to prove I just won't walk away and I want to make a go of it. But it's falling on deaf ears and I may do more damage

This makes totally no sense. What on earth is she saying? You can get divorced with cash or get divorced without cash?

Errmmm no, that isn't how divorce works. Sounds as if her mother is worried about her loan being repaid and is pushing her to refinance so that she gets her money back.

If you decide to divorce, you need to be the one to initiate so that you control the calendar. Don't worry, waywards almost never initiate.

She's trying to buy me off. If she pays back her mother she can still lend it again after divorce. She's angry about exposure and doesn't want to live with me anymore. She will not leave herself so would rather divorce and sell up to get me gone.

In Plan A, you do not promote the breakup of the marriage so you would respond: " I am willing to work with you to create a loving marriage but you must first end your affair and agree to a program of recovery."

She's in the marital state of withdrawl and will be unwilling to work on recovery until her affair ends.

Dr. Harley refers to this as 'being in the fog.'
Every now and then, the fog will lift and she will think rationally. That is why you want a good impression in Plan A.

Points taken and used. Expressed willingness not promoted end. However don't feel affair is in any stage to end as the fog is thick.

I know it's difficult; that's why Plan A is not recommended for more than 6 months.
Personally, I would not have been able to plan A for 6 months. After 2 months, I was physically exhausted.

I'm nearing the two month mark myself and yes, physically it is exhausting. Even after stopping drinking and taking up running. Its the lack of sleep and the mind constantly going that does not help.

I spoke to my boss at work today to explain I was having marriage issues gave no detail just in case any issues arise. This made my whole situation look a bit more real to me. Admitting to someone face to face who has no opinion helped to be more honest with myself. I should of found this forum sooner as the support I have had has been fantastic. The program itself is sound when applied correctly, but going it alone has been an undoing. I stated in my first post how I selfishly self harmed. Im still not sure why. More likely it was hey look at me come fix things for me. My mental state is strained but I'm in a better place where I can think 'do something about it'. The current emotional pain will change. Her sanity is no better. Its her birthday today and the loving and caring environment I wish to create is not here. She may be in the fog with OM but she is clear with me, she s done. Her weekend away is not a work thing its a 'dirty weekend'. Her family are ready to lynch me. My family want me to dig in and make sure I dont get screwed out of money. I want her to know me as the loving and caring man I can and strive to be.
I'm not saying I give up, I may have to review my options. I'm not sure if the reason i'm staying is because I dont have the courage to leave. She has noticed my efforts at change for the better but this has angered her and upset her more. I'm thinking this weekend is my chance to leave with no contact. There will always be the bitterness of the exposure even when the affair does end. But the bitterness of divorce and eviction can I put us through that?

I would encourage you to talk to your family for their advice; discuss plan B with them.

Also, do you attend a Church? If not, I encourage you to visit a Church. You can find a lot of support there.

Hi going to talk to my parents now. Have unbiased friends who can act as IM but if for example MIL tries to contact do I answer?
Wife is being polite and civil making conversation obviously not going to spoil birthday with issues. I will see how next few days go and whether she goes away or not! I cannot change locks etc if she is away as here you can legally break back in!

Noticed you have not answered any of the questions I posed to you. That's cool. No problem. You aren't obligated to do anything you don't want to do.

I was exactly where you are at 3 years ago and now 2 years into R on my way to a fantastic M. In my opinion, you are making critical mistakes at this time.

Best of luck.

Showing her attention for starters, paying compliments when not required, making time for her when mine is short(I work shifts her 9-5) so simple things like getting up with her in the morning to make her tea. Pulling my weight around the house. Looking to find recreational time to spend together. We've always talked about joining a gym so we've been looking together. Suggesting and taking walks by the sea and sharing coffee. Talking about good times before and things for the future including family holidays and house improvements. Also self improvement, fitness, health. When conversation becomes awkward and she picks up my faults or talk of the affair come round I try to remain non-judgemental, calm let her have her views without betraying my non acceptance of affair.

Been to see family explained situation following exposure and the concept of plan B. Not sure they got it but as families are they are willing yo support me. They have not been quick to judge as they no I'm willing to work on marriage only if A ends.
Now I need to take my time to assess situation. Need to be honest with myself and make some choices. I cannot control her or try to. Still need to find IM if I am going plan B. Needs to be someone we both know and trust or it will seem like I'm playing mind games.

So, it looks like you have grounds to sue for divorce for reasons of adultery.

I suggest discussing with your lawyer if it is advantageous if you sue for divorce *first* (e.g. will that reduce the possibility of her having you legally removed from your own home?) rather than waiting on your WW to sue. You can always withdraw your suit if your efforts at recovering your M are successful.

20 year any pointers welcomed

Mentally this is taking its toll. Considered moving out temporarily. But think I got to do all or nothing, stay or go. Come Sunday I can make that choice if she does still go away.

Further to last post she is being civil and talking to me but it seems only to be polite. Regarding weekend I knew all along it was what it is. She still intends to go away so no remorse or respect shown. Think she's being civil to go with D plan. Seriously need to ask myself if I can stay with her carrying on under my nose! Sorry guys two more days of my ramblings to go!

Hang in there, I know it's tough.

Thanks.
When initially asked to seperate my wife's friends told her to get me to leave then. She said no wanted to try and preserve friendship (or have cake too). Same friends are mad at me now and back her to get me out. I will try to hang in with Plan A, any observations pointers welcomed. But how effective is plan B after she files for divorce?

Dr. Harley has seen many cases where the wayward returned after filing for divorce.

While the main purpose of Plan B is to protect the betrayed spouses emotional and physical health, it has another effect: It removes you from the picture.
Currently, you meet some of her needs and the affair partner meets others. After Plan B, all emotional needs must be met by the OM. That puts strain on the affair.

During this time, I encourage you to listen to Dr. harley's radio program daily. It can offer you further guidance and understanding of his methods. You can listen to it by clicking the links on the main website or downloading their free app to your smartphone.

Thanks. I have it on phone already. With the amount of questions I have it's a good idea

You need to seek legal advice to protect yourself. That home is a marital asset and she can't just ask you to leave because its in her name.

Also if you plan B you need to be completely dark neither of you can Love Bust each other. The LB's will then happen with the A partner and that puts a major strain on the A.

Don't get bullied, seek legal counsel and protect yourself. It sounds like you've let WW bully for so long she is not expecting you to fight back especially when she tells you to vacate the home. Uh, if she is choosing the A, she has no right to dictate your actions.

Please read these.
DOCUMENT DOCUMENT DOCUMENT
Men Don't Leave Your Home

Good link. Basically if I can keep my head stick at it. Her divorce threats are bluster until I see the paperwork. Plan B is not an escape plan. Do not fear confrontation but do not LB. I know I'm confusing myself planning for every possible outcome instead of focusing on today being positive and happy! Rule number 1 smile!

Much of this doesn't really matter because they don't have children. He would probably benefit emotionally by leaving the home in plan B so he isnt around all the triggers.

Yes Sir! That is important.

Documentation is always good, especially if it heads to divorce proceedings.

Off guard here. Wife just messaged to meet in a couple of hours to talk! Good thing yes but she's calm. Like a viper ready to strike. Time to see her plan. She had friends round last night and I caught the mood of their conversation was if I don't like it I know where the door is. I know I have to dig in for plan A but she's persuasive and I don't want to capitulate for risking a love bust

Sir, I predict she will say "lets be amicable. our m arriage isnt working for xyz reasons and its both our faults...." (she will use 50,000 words and lots of emotions to say this sentence).

You should respond: "I am willing to work with you to create a loving marriage where both of our needs are met, but you must first end your affair."

If needed, repeat the sentence 10,000 times.
No angry outbursts, no disrespectful judgements.
If it becomes too much, simply offer her a glass of water or ask if she wants to go have a cup of coffee.

Pretty much what I was thinking. A charm offensive. Still feel nervous as hell!

Her doing the charm offensive

Well the angry outburst came from her getting up from lunch and storming off. I kept one track on ' I want us to work on loving marriage as long as you end the affair' . Response were I don't want to be married can't you see the marriage is over. I'm with OM now. If I do what are you offering (my response, the chance to work on a loving marriage). I thought you accepted the marriage was over. You had to humiliate me to get what you want. Always about you getting your way.

Basically she started of trying to remain friends and say marriage is over because of things that happened before A. Even if A had not happened we would still be over and wouldn't be willing to work on things. Painted me as the person blaming the reason for the marriage breakdown is the A not that it was in trouble before.
Yes it was in trouble before but no chance to try and rectify it when A happened.
I did at the very start of our current problems agree with her the marriage was probably over because at least living together I would have a shot at revival.
She is adamant marriage is over even if she considered ending the affair ( but she did say she is 'with' OM now). Before leaving she even said she doesn't want to be friends. I was calm didn't LB but was maybe devoid of emotion.
Honestly if she did end affair I'm not sure she wants the marriage. She kept looking at friendship if the A ends. Even suggesting that I wouldn't let her move on if there was someone else in future. But she's right I want what I want and that is for us to work on our marriage. She doesn't regardless of A, she wants to sell up and separate. I know when I get home she will be out or not speaking. She is still hurt by me from exposure also.

Did you ever email Dr. Harley?

Let me thin out last post. I stuck to guns said I want us to work on marriage if you end A. No compromise nothing to be talked about until then. If marriage is over we can talk about it when A over. She says marriage over anyway nothing to do with A.
May have to go B as she's not giving me a chance to show I care.

Brainhurts I got my mail on radio. Stick with A as much as I can than go to B if I have to

When did Dr. Harley read it?

So how are you feeling emotional and mentally? Dr. Harley recommends 6 months to 2 years of Plan A for men, because they can usually handle it better than women.

How long have you been in Plan A?

Question if women shouldn't do plan A for longer than 3 months ( I think thi is what has been said) does that mean men have more chance of saving their marriage because they can plan A for longer?

Dr. Harley says women shouldn't plan A longer than 3 weeks, due to health and immune issues to women. We've seen women experience PTSD from remaining in Plan A longer than 3 weeks.

Dr. Harley doesn't advise a woman to "chase after her WH" usually BH's can win their WW's back. If a WH doesn't usually see the error of his ways and "return on bended knee, hat in hand" then Dr. Harley usually advises a BW to go into Plan B and seek legal help.

Have you read SAA, yet?

The story about Sue and Jon where Sue was the WW is a prime example. She didn't even feel remorse while her and Jon were first trying recovery.

Do you have the book SAA?

Weds end of show. Plan A? Been trying to meet her needs for about 2 months now. Done a poor job of exposure only starting with a trickle letting her get her 'we are over and separated' in before a full exposure in the last week. But the cats amongst the pigeons. I'm the bad guy for airing the laundry(should of been clean in the first place)! She's separating issues. Marriage breakdown one thing. Affair another. But can't work on first without discussing latter.
Tomorrow I'm certain she will have her time away with him. Right now my gut says dont be here when she comes back. Was earlier meeting part of her charm offensive or because she still cares? Both I think.
The current battle is backing her in to a corner. She knows I still love her but if I go now she will only have these bitter memories.
Adrenalin pumping now so I'm letting off now before she comes home.
But then divorce doesnt happen over night so could have time to show her 'if' she's willing to see

Hi, I am reading SAA at the moment. So it sounds to me that the approach for men and women are quite different. Does anyone know if this affects the chances of success?

So did you finally do a full blown exposure?

Dr. Harley told you to remain in Plan A? So what can you do to get a rock solid Plan A in place? Do you need help with ideas? Are you mentally strong to do this?

Yes it is different for a BW compared to a BH.

Have you read the Jon and Sue story yet? Did you read the WH and BE story?

I can find fantastic success stories from both sides.

I am in similar situation to you, other than I asked her to leave on Wednesday (she left) after she kept lying to me. I agree plan A is incredibly hard to keep going. In 3 months it has severely depleted my love bank for her. I feel like I have bee used as a punchbag to justify her affair in her mind and she alo completely trivialises th affair. Very difficult to deal with. Thi is why plan b seems attractive because suddenly she would not see me and therefore the trigger to blame me would not be there

abccba, you should be asking this question on your own thread. It shouldn't be asked on somebody else's help thread.

Taking a breath from round 2, she has 6 years of resentment built up that she can't let go of. She sees me as only trying as I am trying to win her back. Would expect me to revert back to type 6 weeks later. Thinks I'm holding empty promises

I suppose this is what plan A is about displaying changes in you for long enough that she starts to believe you have actually changed permanently.

Can you tell us about your Plan A efforts?

What are her top ENs? What are you doing to meet them?

She can see I'm changing and trying to change but doesn't believe it will last. My strength is going from being beaten with her resentment. She doesn't want to let it go. I'm trying to deposit in a closed bank while mine is emptying fast

What are her top ENs? What are you doing to meet these?

Fighting to kill an affair needs a extensive exposure, done all at once, without telling WW that you are going to expose before you do it.

Plan A as with exposure takes time to work as well. To expect results after 2 weeks or 2 months when Dr H says men need to expose 6 months to 2 years is not realistic.

Also it is normal for WW to be mad at exposure and tell you she wants a divorce when you are plan A'ing her. The WW is not detoxed from her affair and is using tactics to get you to give up trying to save your marriage.

WW is not your wife. WW is your enemy trying to defeat you. you are at war. since when do you believe your enemy and do what they want?

Everyone in the marital state of withdrawl has closed their love bank to their spouse. However, you can trickle in some deposits here and there.
When the affair ends is when they often are willing to reopen the love bank.

Soo tired so confused. Last post woke me up a bit. Been listing ENs and realising they've been topic of conversation for years. It's only took an affair to realise what I've been doing lately to try and meet those needs has been missing(I will list and explain later). She finds it almost insulting that I didn't meet them when asked before. And we have been here before many times. It improves for 5 minutes then back to taking the marriage for granted. I'm constantly considering leaving to get some space and clear my head, it wouldnt take long. She says she doesn't want me to meet those needs, I can't make her happy. I do find little chances to do so anyway. Even if its something simple like making her bed. It's like sometimes she forgets to be mad at me then remembers all the crap I've done in the past. And I have done some crap. I think it annoys her that I won't let her push me away. Keep trying to remind myself if she wants a divorce she will have to bring it, she doesn't want to get nasty but will and I don't want to walk away. (Also its all about what I want). Looked at some plan B templates and one thing was to include happier times so I keep trying to drop these in talks now.
The ENs are Affection, Sexual fulfilment, Financial support, Domestic support and Recreational companionship. I will try to cover one by one including how I feel I have failed before as I can still learn from it.

Yes, Making bed...small love bank depoits...
Dr. Harley once encouraged a caller to wash windows of the house because it was the only thing he could do to make LB depoits with his ex wife. Harley said over time, she may allow him to make other small deposits elsewhere.

But during an affair, there are NO love bank deposits.
Plan A allows you to be an alternative to the affair partner and a lasting memory in the waywards foggy head to remember in case you enter Plan B

Trying to hang in there. She keeps banging on that we are over and gets mad that I'm not listening. But I pry conversation out by asking about her day and how she is. May of overdone the flowers she says I've spoilt it for her as over the years they've usually been as an apology. Apart from her birthday where flowers are mandatory I sent her some at work just to cheer her up and if there's none in the house I get them to brighten it up( her favourites of course). She even asks me to rub her feet when she's too tired to argue ( I looked up techniques last time we hit a slump). I used to ignore her a lot watching tv but now if I'm home before her I wait to get her bags. I give her attention when she lets me even if its a text to see how she is. She may not want me to try to meet her needs but I will keep doing the little things until the papers come or I run.

Effective plan A means picking your spots, but always being genuinely thoughtful and caring. But not a door mat and not a wimp. Find the right balance.

At the same time stand firm on your boundaries. Do nothing to enable her affair.

Wife been in withdrawal before A. I can see why she can't see marriage working. But I cannot condone A and have told her so. We keep going in circles I point out if she wants us to end in the happy friendly way she wants she must end A completely before we can talk about our needs. She is conflicted between hurting me further and getting what she wants. Says I don't make her happy he does. Yet I still try.

MIL back from vacation tomorrow this should be interesting. I respect her opinion and while she agrees marriage may well be over she told me not to make it easy on wife to continue A. Much of the conversation with wife last night was me not accepting. Wife wants me to go so she can say I left her instead of having to throw me out because I couldn't see it's over. Wife away tonight! Think she's hoping I'm gone when she gets back. One more day at a time maybe

Left her a tea before I left for work, she was still in bed but knew she would be up when I left.

Question. She may not be home when I get back and I don't want to sulk all day if she has gone on 'trip' (can't chain her indoors)! I have to message her rather than stay dark all day. How should the content be? I know I should not pile on the I love you etc?

I agree, the taxing part is when she counters with all the negative things you have done and can't see anything else. You may remind her of the good times but she doesn't want to see it. Strength is needed and it helps to know you're not alone in this situation and advice is coming from people who have been here before. The smallest thing can always count

Blue,
Your wife says that it is too late to meet her needs. My wife said the same thing to me. But by that point, I had already read Dr. Harley's books and they created a change in me that I applied in Plan A. So as you do your Plan A, do not overdo it. Don't smother your wife and do not pander to her like a weakling. Be a good husband with quiet confidence and humility. Avoid talking about the relationship or even the affair. I would suggest writing her a letter that explains to her that she is the love of your life, that you're sorry past neglect, that you have learned to be better husband, and that you have a plan that will restore your marriage to a happy, passionate one. I would also let her know that you cannot abide the affair, that it has devastated you, and that if it doesn't end you will file for legal separation. Once the letter has been delivered and read, try to avoid discussing the relationship as that will negate the love bank deposits you are making.

So as you commit to Plan A, be aware that it is a process, and it takes time to see it through. My sister-in-law was diagnosed with breast cancer a couple of months ago. She had a double mastectomy and will be undergoing radiation treatment for the next few weeks. It's been a difficult trial for her. Plan A works the same way. You come up with a battle plan to eliminate the cancer (in this case the affair) and you execute the plan even though it is very painful. It could take a few weeks to crush the affair or it could take more than a year. Tranquildark who posts here regularly, experienced his D-day in September of 2012 and he is still in Plan A. I did it for 18 months. The most difficult 18 months of my life. The point is, don't expect changes over night. But do expect that if you follow the plan right, you will have done the very best you can to save your marriage, and that is all the matters whatever the outcome.

Even though your wife is in the fog, she will note that you are a better husband, better father, better person. Years of resentment and her addiction to her affair partner may not allow your changes to extinguish her love for the other man right away. But you are planting seeds were planted and when her affair goes south, as the great majority do, she will know that coming back home is her best option.

Thanks for the sound advice. I guess beating her round the head with the A every chance I get will only do more harm. But I must be remindful that I do not condone it. I have written a letter before apologising for hurts and where I see our future but it was not very well constructed nor did I have any of the advice or learning I have found here. I agree I'm impatient and also prone to panic. My instinct much of the time is to flee. But many of the threads I have read have made me hold my course. If I was going to devote my energy to a PB letter why not try this first.
Yes my wife is angry and heavy in the fog but she is not yet desperate enough or that vicious to evict me just yet. Only I can make her do that if I lose control.
So instead of packing up I should tidy up. I will not flush things down the toilet in panic, I will fix the toilet (we actually have a broken toilet). Made me laugh!
And maybe I will finish the posts on how I'm trying to meet her needs as advice there would be better served than eliminating my self pity.
As you say I must do the very best I can whatever the outcome, that's all that matters

Making deposits is as throwing stones into the water. You do not see the effort of your work until enough rocks have piled up until they almost reach the surface.

Talking about divorce is not plan A. WW brings up divorce, ignore, stay calm, change the subject. Repeat as necessary.

Taking good advice on board. I posted before 'Rule Number 1 Smile' and I'm trying to stick to that and a positive attitude. Taking this time to list ENs and how I can tackle them. Even if they are pebbles not stones. Not log ago I changed the wallpaper picture on my phone to one of happier times to remind me why I am doing this. Today I added a daily reminder to ask what Have I done today. It does help to be given motivation from others but first I have to motivate myself.

Probably a bad analogy but reading threads on here is like reading Barney Stinsons playbook. I was struggling for ideas to meet her ENs but there are many I can adapt to my marriage. If I only retain a portion of the knowledge here I know I will be a better person for it.

Hello, I am following your thread, you're getting great advice so nothing more to offer, but I just wanted to say that I notice a change in your attitude in just these few days. For the better.

I'm really impressed with your dedication to keeping a good attitude.

Thanks. I think I researched all the worst case scenarios to death and realised I'd find the answers in searching myself. And I found myself remembering 20 years ago being a teenager trying to make sense of life/love. One thing I wrote to myself back then 'A life without love is a loveless life, a loveless life is no life, you need love to live or living is no use at all'.
It could be sombre but my recollection is if you have it give it even if you don't get a return.

LOL. Men that seduce women regularly are experts in meeting key emotional needs and seducing women.
Also, they look for weak boundaries.

What Plan A efforts did you do today?

What are her top 5 ENs?

If you watch this interview with dr. Harley (its a podcast), he basically says the same thing!

Yesterday was pretty much a bust as there was still a lot of bad feeling from the day before where she wanted to 'talk' and I hit her with 'I want us to work on a loving marriage where both of our needs are met only if you end affair'. I heard nothing from her yesterday as I was on a long shift at work and she went away for the day and night. I was wary of enabling her but more wary of having an AO myself. I did manage a text (it was read) that said 'I am not mad with you. You are important to me and I do care for you'.
She probably thinks I am doing something reckless like getting falling down drunk. I'm off the booze, its been key to many LBs and has been a common factor in or marriage. 49 days sober and she is proud of me for it, more importantly I am proud of me for it. She also probably thinks that like in many arguments before I will walk away. I'm sure shes half expecting to come home today to find I have packed up and left. No work today and I do not expect to see her until late tonight.

ENs, trying to brainstorm them individually I find many overlap.
Top 5 are Affection, Sexual Fulfillment, Financial Support, Domestic Support and Recreational Companionship.

The second listed is going to be tricky (its off the cards in the current situation). Even hugs and pecks on cheek have been withdrawn at the moment. But I can put Conversation in to the mix also.
Today I am not working. She is not at home so we are not fighting. I guess I better focus on Domestic support. The house is a tip, been too busy fighting!
Also there is a picture that needs hanging in the middle bedroom. This is important as if we were able to have children we would of used that room. We have used it in the past to host foreign students (for extra money but also I think to create a family feel in the home), now the most important guest has been her niece.
I think this touches on Affection also. I could go on, my own EN playbook is continuously filling but I have work to do!

This may all be blown out of the water tonight after she talks to MIL about exposure. Also her going away. I do think I have already got across how much it has hurt me and I cannot abide it, it is not acceptable. Shes going to expect a reaction when she returns, do I?

Plan A is not about reacting, teaching the WW, arguing.

The carrot?

No I meant the stick?

Ordered SAA should have it tomorrow. Just remembered from Saturdays 'interactions' I offered to for us to work on marriage and was met with 'why whats in it for me'. Not seeing this as a hopeful statement of willing but a need for me to be able to answer this question. Recovery through to loving marriage I need to know what I am offering!

You are offering her the opportunity for wonderful marriage, one that is romantic, passionate, and safe for both of you.

You are offering her your willingness to meet her emotional needs and eliminate all your lovebusters, if she will end her affair.

You are offering to put her first in your life.

Yep! That's what I've been saying. Gently gently I will keep on. I want to shout it at her but no its not the volume of noise that is required.

Biting my tongue with myself! One of her complaints is my lack of support around the home. Probably most husbands like me needed some training in domestic chores in the early days of the marriage (something she pointed out to me in recent arguments). But as the years go on a mutual division of labour occurs. The only real complaints she has now is my avoidance of the bathroom (overcome and tackled) and my ineptitude at Laundry (fair to say we leave this one as its safer for me to stay away from her smalls). I'm winding myself up tallying off the amount I do compared to her and I come out on top. Granted my work pattern makes it more manageable for me, but I want to throw this back at her negating her argument. I recall her being out of work and noticing she had done nothing round the home to keep on top of things. But I didnt notice her depression as she felt worthless for losing her job and financial support. I think my point is many of her ENs overlap and I can see where I failed and I can see where the work is needed. More importantly by having expectations I am only meeting my needs for myself and not focusing on hers.

I'm aware that I'm posting a lot of status updates rather than facts. But I'm in a battle and I need to be mentally prepared and know my direction.
I liked the advice to write a letter, I even went out and got some nice stationery to use rather than some ratty notepaper. I was not keen on setting ultimatums such as legal separation as I feel this at odds with plan A. If I discuss separation I must consider divorce. Divorce is not plan A.

I think it comes down to natural reflex like I had today in a text conversation with my brother. He was a first contact when I discovered the Affair and his initial reaction was anger at my WS and advice to ensure I protect my assets. Now he generally asks how I'm doing. Today he asked 'How are your plans going? I assume your still at home?' My reply
'Oh yes. Place a tip busy cleaning while she's not here. This is a war I'm not going to win with harsh words and outrageous actions. I've got to balance the 'nice' with not tolerating the situation until she gives up, kicks me out or I leave. I think she wants me to leave so she can say I left her. But for now I must keep my head. Whatever way I win.
And the advice about patience very good. I'm already behind enemy lines!

You aren't going to toilet scrub your way back into her heart. Particularly when she's not even there.

It's very common for WS's or those in withdrawal to stress the importance of the non intimate needs. In their ideal world, you will pick up all the slack with the chores while she gets the intimate needs met by OM.

Remember that she's an addict in a fog high. Even though she is directing you to this busy work she isn't going to remember whether it was even done.

I'm not saying to ignore her complaints or leave it, I'm just saying concentrate on the biggies. The stuff she DOESNT want you to do, like show affection.

Meet DS by all means, but cunningly turn it into affection. Make her favorite dinner. Put out her favorite flowers. Put those cookies she likes on the table with a cute and funny note.

Notes are good because they have longevity and a wayward will never throw away cake, even if they were trying to diet. Other gifts will work too. Showing an interest in her problems, asking about her day.

But the all time biggie is getting in the way of her A. There is no more powerful sign of male affection than a H who refuses to stand by while his wife cats around.

Where is she going when she is out of the house?

Pretty much mon-Fri she is home with me if I'm not working nights. Sundays is the day. From what I can glean OM has kids at weekend she never makes excuses on a Saturday! So I think they are returned before Sunday night. I work pretty much every Sunday so she doesn't even have to sneak out and I think she goes to his place or places nearby. My best piece of intel so far is her phone. It's hard work trawling through the messages. Phone is never out of her sight so usually have to wait for her to go to sleep and sneak it away.
She's unrepentant and the way she's spun it to friends they don't have a problem with it, I'm the only one who does and it's sour grapes.

She's more guarded now since exposure. Normally we sleep with bedroom doors open. Hers is now closed!

If you guys are going to help I need to stop holding back. Tonight she got back about 930 from a night away yesterday with OM. Saturday we spent arguing. Me saying I want to work on M if you give up A. She hates me calling it an Affair as she sees us as over and feels she is doing no wrong, if I don't like it I know where the door is.
So tonight she asks if we are going to argue all night again. I say 'you know how I feel'. She says 'you know how I feel'. Stalemate, so I keep the peace to keep her from shutting me out. I think by giving it a rest it will give me more time to work on her and her ENs. We share some company and tv not much said. Then as she's going to her room I say 'I'm not giving up on you you know'. My response is a huff and 'I'm going to bed' said in an I can't do this [censored] tone.

Every morning I get up at the same time as her to share a cup of tea before she goes to work. I do this even if I don't have to get up. Is this me being affectionate or a sad puppy?

You should not be arguing at all with your wife. Arguing is a big love buster and will serve to justify her affair in her own mind by convincing her that you and she don't get along. Don't argue. At all.

Having a cup of tea with your wife is a great idea. Just make sure that the time together has no lovebusters.

Plan A is part meeting the ENs that she will allow and part eliminating all your love busters.

She doesnt care about your feelings. If she did, she would not be going away and having sex with other men.

Its a kind act

Absolutely evil.

Still don't understand how you can let her come and go like that. How can a woman respect a husband who lets her behave this way? Women don't love men without backbones, but they do respect men when they set limits.

I would leave the home and respectfully tell her that you will not be under the same room with her while she is conducting this affair. Then I would Plan A from a distance.

Can you go into Plan B? I don't usually recommend H's do that, but other posters have suggested it too because you are starting to lose your temper and fight with her.

I don't think this is down to your ability to Plan A (the tea is a nice touch by the way) but rather because she is staggeringly blatant about her A.

To be honest with you, reviewing your thread I don't think she is the typical WW. She was an OW before marrying you wasn't she? Her family too, have proved themselves to be useless in exposure and you'd have to cut them all loose in recovery because they have proved to you that they would encourage a second affair.

Even if there were kids, there would be little chance of making a result here. I'm not saying don't give it a shot, I'm saying: "what's good for you right now?" If you understand the love bank you'll know that Plan B will help you heal and you will be able to find someone who meets the needs she used to. Someone withou any infidelity on their record and no pain they have to make up to you.

You'd still be giving her an opportunity to end the A in your Plan B. If you want, I'm not sure Id even make that offer.

I've bumped a thread describing the run of the mill wayward wife. Do check it out.

I think you've got a freeloader on your hands who does whatever feels good. Of course that describes all WWs, but I think this is a way of life for your lady, not a temporary phase.

Exposure is often a test of the raw material. A typical wayward feels horribly guilty even if they try to mask it with anger but an atypical feels justified.

I think her family's reaction is telling too. They raised her to consider herself first and to just do whatever brings happiness.

Indie I think you have summed it up quite well. I've just been listing where I am right now to weigh up my options. I think my biggest hurdle is frustration and as in my original post a feeling of impotence. I cant set limits on someone who has no respect for me or those limits. I was contemplating to execute Plan B at the weekend because yes she is staggeringly blatant about her A. I did not do so because I lacked the courage to, as often when faced with conflict I bury my head and hope it will go away. My only problem with Plan B is getting an IM. All options seem to be friends or family who are not unbiased enough or trustworthy enough not to gossip.
There have been boundary issues before with her friendships with other men and it seems efforts to set limits here have proved fruitless. It seems her lack of respect has been longstanding.
I said before I like the idea of a letter without an ultimatum, that's because I think I know any ultimatum will not be met. Like a shark with no teeth. I've told her before I found MB if I were to leave it would be under conditions like in Plan B. I dont think either I can plan A from a distance as this leaves the threat idle. Also threatening a legal separation is idle. If I filed for this it would delay divorce but also legally put down my reason as adultery. But in doing this I think I am trying to publicly assign blame.

If I leave I should be in Plan B

Not in Plan A long enough for it to be effective, only just grasping concept. Too many LBs already

She has no respect for me continuing affair

I have no respect for me and none is earned allowing it to go on

She is not willing to end it and I cant make her

She feels she has moved on

Talking about affair/our relationship end in arguments/conflict

I offer loving marriage she offers divorce

Divorce is not Plan A

Is Plan B too early

She wants me to leave to assign blame

Can negate her blame with legal separation stating adultery

Separation delays divorce

Killing Affair is best attack

Trying to kill Affair sees me as bitter/jilted

Leaving at this point sees me as bitter/jilted

Affair will continue In Plan A or Plan B

Kids and finances/property not an issue relationship is

Do not want to make rash decisions

I'm not sure if I'm playing game A to get a better result out of Plan B out of some sort of spite or revenge. Its hard to keep the emotion out of it as its all about emotions. I think I will have to attempt a draft at a Plan B letter to see how it feels!

Quick thought before I go to work and try and focus there. When I was young and single I was the OM twice. Neither lasted more than a year. What goes around! Makes me think I feel like the OM in my own marriage.

On previous posts, patience and positivity is a must and I cannot make rash decisions.

Oh and nice thread Indie takes the goggles off a bit.

Been able to get on her FB found saucy messages to a second man all while this affair is going on! Raging yes. Want to start the legal yes. Still love her yes.

Didn't have the password but phone search engine still logged in for who knows how long! I am mentioned in messages just in case I read them. But even though she says I can't she still says she doesn't care if I do. Well I have now. Guess she has no moral compass or respect for me. Even if she is in her guilt free zone of we are over! If I didn't love her i wouldn't be mad right? This time do I react or sleep on it!

Don't talk to her about it; print off the messages for safekeeping.
Find out who OM 2 is and expose him to his family and friends.

Know who he is. Former colleague of wife. Works in my company in another area at a higher grade. He has faced this sort of thing before and laughed it off. Renown for getting about. Will gather my intel and print when I can. Surely this will bite me in the [censored] when it gets fed back to wife. Think I should pack an escape bag! Things will get ugly. Not the way I wanted things.

She tried to use this bloke a couple of years ago to get us to split saying they had one off sex. Then later on denied it and we moved on. I will dig further read these messages properly and see if there are any more. Could be she's been fooling me for years. What then plan D? Don't think I could be in same house if she's fooled me twice

Personally, I would wash my hands of her.

But, if you want to win her back and hopefully get her to commit to recovery then you need to stay in Plan A.

If I dig deep enough I'm sure I will find something!
My options if I do
Stay in plan A expose this attempt recovery

Leg it see if reconciliation later

Leg it

Yep! There is proof. I'm not surprised and I'm not hurt by this one I knew and I was over it. Still brings things to a new light. I'm sure if I analysed our whole marriage her boundary issues would come leaping out! Do I still love her yes. Hate her no. I think she has problems I can't solve. If she cares about them. I would love that time machine, go back etc.At the start of our split she told me I should find myself and guess what I'm starting to. Recovery? I would love us to have that loving marriage where both of our needs our met but I can't sacrifice myself for that. Exposure again, looking at personnel tradgedies that have already happened to us and others soon to happen I don't think it would help her mentally. Me im not sure. I know I have to leave. But when and how? Not sure i can fully commit a Plan B. Not sure what I want

Time to wash hands. Shes been in talks with MIL. First thing I got when I got home was I'm going to see a solicitor later this week. Im outta here gonna lose my cool otherwise. Wife says we could of done this as friends but you cant accept we are over. I say you wouldnt of gone away weekend if there was a chance for us. Been kidding myself too long. Been played too long. Time to start thinking with the head before I lose the love I have for her. Got to do it quick before I change my mind. Start late tomorrow and day off Thurs. Plan to have things I need out by Thurs afternoon. Will leave a nice letter saying why I have gone and will have no contact. My brother will IM hes level headed enough to keep his cool. Any ideas on what more to do?

if you decide to leave, you will NEED to enter Plan B for your health.

Use the Plan B letter o this website. Just copy it.

Also, relatives often dont make good IM.
Since you dont have children you could use an internet IM. You should consider this.

Waking up this morning feeling a little puzzled. It's been a roller coaster of emotions. Legal advice I think

IM would have to be brother for now no other options. He lives out of town so will all go Internet.

My initial thoughts are to go straight for divorce and do it quick

Got up had tea with wife this morning. Put in the small talk to see if lines of communication are still open. I had left her a note before going to work yesterday containing 'I love you'. She brought this up saying I still don't get that we are over and that a letter from a solicitor for divorce will make me listen!
I said I think I realise that now and I need to back off as otherwise I'm going to lose any respect for me she has left and any sort of friendship will be impossible.
Things are civil but I do need to go Plan B.

If MIL or family or friends of hers try contact do I ignore them too?

Legal consultation booked for next week!

It is most atypical, sociopathically cruel and downright unwomanly for a WW to brag about 'one off sex' to her BH. This is exactly what I'm talking about.


I would do the exposure of OM2, even if you are dead set on divorce. It won't take long and who knows what other misery you could save other people by warning his world and yours about him. I'd include her 'one off' confession. It busts up WW's little stories regarding her happy new love OM1 and of how it is all OK really because she is 'separated'. She can't make a second OM look good with her little spin stories and it will make her supporters look like fools. It will be the last service you do her as a husband - the gift of the truth. She needs to learn she can't outrun it.

It will also do you the world of good to do this and just face the conflict head on with confidence. You will like living with yourself afterwards much better if you don't leave this undone. You will know you did all you could.

Then I would just go, and get into Plan B, because as you say here:



You sum it up perfectly.

I think she is atypical and simply not worth your time. As for your brother being IM... Hmm. I wouldn't recommend him being an IM if recovery was possible. He would see such a dark, nasty side of her he wouldn't be able to forgive her and be a BiL to her later.

However if he is a very level headed man he could probably be a spam filter, protecting you from contact with a woman you won't recover with. I don't see recovery happening. She is very entitled and while an extended Plan A could win her back, she'd never stop cheating on you.

He would have to have the nerves of a surgeon though. Waywards are expert button pushers, particularly with relatives who care about you. A neutral friend would be better.

Thank you for being honest with us about being an OM in your past.

Two things: Did the BH's learn about the affairs you were part of, and have you removed yourself from all contact with these people?

Just been walking through house trying to get a line on what I need to take tomorrow. Its hard now dont know what when it sinks in.
OM2 exposure? seems like I'm dragging up old dirt. But also I need that vidication. Not sure about timing of it all. Also i have copies of the messages not too explicit but say enough!Think exposure letter wording would have to be different. How and would I include this evidence, its a lot to think about.
I think I have to use brother for the short term as being blanked by most people at moment.

Also exposure targets? Is it wise to rock the boat?

feels like im being malicious also OM2 works for same company could be in trouble for harassment? Even if it is the truth?
Plus she has friends still in the company that can make my life hell! Have to be very careful here if I do. Last exposure I did a group message on FB as thats the only contact I have for some. That way they all could see who else had seen. Some of her family are going through very bad illness at moment dont want to add more stress. She will know I have told on my side. I think only her Mum, sister and a couple of close friends need know this new one. It gets through the family vine anyway.

There is an exposure template for an old A just been discovered. Use the template that starts how you sadly have to inform the friends of Joe Scumbag he is not a friend to marriage. You don't have to include your evidence at all. Just matter of factly refer to it as an affair.

Actually since you have a rented house in her name (have I remembered that right?) you prob won't need a great deal of IM'ing. Your brother will probably only be needed very short term to tie up loose ends with bills and then you can commnicate through lawyers. As long as she has no contact with you.

As for OM2 targets, the Exposure thread deals with that. Cherry pick his FB friends and expose to workplace as outlined in the Expousre thread.


It's also very important you deal with your own past misdeeds as an OM. You don't want those skeletons jumping out at you unexpectedly. Deal with it honourably, now.

We can't help you if you'd rather be an enabler.

of course someone who scams on women in the workplace will get into trouble for it. What does he exect a medal and a payrise?



How exactly? If they reveal themselves as enablers that is helpful information to you. You will know you cannot trust them and that is useful to know.



The fact that their relative has very scummy standards and is open to any any passing OM is extremely stressful, I agree. But with the true information about this available to them, they can decide whether she is worth the stress she brings to them.



So what's the harm in it coming clearly, confidently and gently from you? Surely it is much better from you than for ill people to hear it via gossip?

I exposed on the anniversary of the death of OW's deceased H. Including to his parents, her inlaws. I told all those grieving people the news on that terrible day. Exactly BECAUSE I didn't want them hearing it through gossip. They remain extremely grateful to me for having the courage to do it myself instead leaving them to the mercy of gossip they could not trust. indeed they had been hearing gossip which had been making them very nervous and unsure for ages.


I am not sure why you are so keen to avoid conflict. You come across as a man who feels guilty, unsure of himself and as though he will be blamed.
You seem more concerned about the trouble than what is right.

Possibly it is the leftover guilt of being an OM. However you can deal with that and get it over with.

House is owned in her name. She has always paid mortgage and helped me out of debt. I'm not interested in disputing ownership. I know legally it could be sold and profits split! There is small equity left but that can wait for proper legal advice. Bills etc easily transferred so yes IM'ing will be minimal.

Unsure of myself yes. I started out wanting to save my marriage, now? Conflict? My minds set on fleeing right now! Guilty yes, Ive not been a saint in this marriage. Ive not committed adultery in this marriage. I have done some dishonest and hurtful things.

You are always going to be all at sea without a moral compass.

I strongly recommend you expose those who attacked you and expose your own misdeeds. Do not fear the truth.

I need to get out first. My time is limited today off to work now. Should this exposure coincide with me leaving? Or does it seem cowardly? Or nullify any letter?

So the right plan should be:
Leave tomorrow
Expose old affair
Wait!
I've come this far what do I have to lose

If it were me, I would not do any more exposure. I understand the reasoning behind it and it makes sense though.

There needs to be some 'room' for the emotions to settle down a little bit. The more you inflame the situation, the worse it is going to get.

Are you realizing that everyday there are a new set of emotions that you are experiencing?

You need to calm down. Take this slow. Both of you are highly entangled with the emotions of this entire situation.

Use your head right now not your emotions. They will lead you astray. Her actions/decisions are very typical of a WW. Mine said many of the same things.

Just relax and take this one step at a time. Put pressure on the A and just try to do your best to be cool with her. I would not shower her with "I love you" this makes you look weak. Especially since she knows you are aware of her choices at this time.

No way that I would leave my own house. None.

You MUST show her that the future will be different than the past. You do that by being cool every single day with every single interaction and NOT being a doormat.

Slow down.

Right now, the OM is her 'shoulder' to lean on. He is giving her what she wants. You are not. You are in a competition. In her mind, he is her 'escape'. He has her back. In her eyes, you do not. She can go to him and cry about you and her life. She is so far in the Fog that she can't see clearly.

You do realize this..right?

SO,,,how are you going to compete? This is a game of cat and mouse right now.

How are you going to make her feel good about you?

Exposure I've sat on this one long enough only just got proof still undecided. Leaving is a must. Things getting intolerable.

If needed, I am willing to act as an internet IM for you.

If you insist on using your brother as an IM, you should have him come here for guidance and education on being an IM.
Again, relatives usually dont make good IM because they are emotionally invested and care about you.

The first step in this is visiting an attorney.

Often in Plan B the cheating spouse will try to use relatives to pass on messages.
It is important that they understand that you do not want to hear her name mentioned, until the affair ends and she agrees to recovery and contacts your IM.
If they disrespect you by talking about her or arguing then cut off contact with them.

Exactly that's the spirit.



20, she's a long standing serial OW, she doesn't feel good about anything involving commitment. It's a young marriage, no kids and she's a serial cheater. He's made the decision to bail on this and who could blame him?





This is a really good offer because Jedi would be very neutral and he understands MB. I used a lady MBer to IM for me and it was a very successful move for me.



I would allow them to contact you once with questions etc, ask about your evidence, then I would change your contact details and go dark.

No. Not a bit. He has every right too! This is a tough one as they both have committed adultery. (or at least he was a OM at one point..wasn't clear if he was married at the time). Regardless, both sides would require huge changes in themselves for their M to be successful.

My only point was to help IF he really is attempting to reconcile their M.

Up in air with emotion and confusion. Deep down I want it to work. Got to stop just reacting that's why I need to leave. Didn't do it Sunday must do it tomorrow. Have friends who may IM who understand the risk and glitz of an Affair. My main concern is PBL at moment it's a handwritten letter?

Jedi I appreciate the offer may have to hold you to it friends not confirmed yet.

Just copy the letter from the book or from this thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2558482#Post2558482

Then you have the letter delivered to her. DO NOT hand her the letter. You want the last impression/ memory to be of a loving husband.
Also send a copy of the letter to OM

I used this sample to write my letter. It is the delivery message I was more unsure of. I plan to be out before she returns from work tomorrow and I'm sure she will notice I'm gone. As I have nobody to hand it to her I was going to leave it in a prominent position and also email a copy. Written or printed for physical letter?

Written physical letter, you can have the mailman deliver it or leave it on the table.
Send a copy to OM by mail.
Since one of OM works in your company, I would also send a copy to the company President and ask the President to ensure that you have no contact with OM because he is having an affair with your wife.

Come in tonight to a wife more relaxed wanting to talk. So I let her talk. I avoided talking about the relationship as its late also she hasn't changed her stance. She tells me I have to accept its over. She's still willing to let me take my time saving up and moving out. No offer of money this time as house valuation came in under expected apparently. No offer to end the A either. Nothing's changed. Except maybe me.

Just to clarify when I was OM I was single and it was just before I got together with wife. Maybe that's what made me attractive!

That's the easy part done stuff moved out. Now to go back for that last look around an move my head out

I'll just bet she is. With you in the house being walked over the A is exciting and they are lovers risking everything - them two against the world. Once you're gone she'll just be another wash-up with a lousy cheater boyfriend.


A WW not wishing to hand out money when it comes down to brass tacks. What a shocker.

Let a lawyer figure out the money.



Unfortunately I think this is so. I think you were the ideal fall guy. The ideal, adulterous, candidate for your wife's needs.

I think she was got very addicted to OM as his single mistress and never really let go of the sick high that comes with making yourself feel good by betraying people. However married men get tired of their single mistresses very easily. To the addicted OW, this requires a solution.

It's quite common for a single OW to go find herself a man so that she her lover are on more equal ground. The new husband makes her lover jealous and the new dimension of betrayal adds a bit of spice.

She hired you as a third wheel, and the fact that you yourself were an adulterer a) justified it to her and b) made her feel you'd accept it.

This is why we need you to clean this off your record and make amends. You are not going to attract very honourable women until you yourself are honourable.

The honour was the intention of marriage. We both got found out. I've set my terms, now to see if she will meet them and what I will do if she does!

?

I'm sure you intended to honour your vows to her. You did, after all. But I was talking about the unmade amends to the BH's. It isn't honourable to just let that slide. It also makes her feel justified. She thinks you don't have a moral leg to stand on.




?

I have no idea what you are talking about. Are you saying your wife caught you out on the truth of your past? You never told her voluntarily?

At what point are you going to come clean to the BH's from your affairs? I assume they are still being punished by the fall out of the affairs in their marraiges?

What would you do if they decided to expose you as an OM? when you hide from the truth it has a habit of coming to find you.

No idea where the BH of the past are and it's taken this to see the wrong I have done to them. The affairs were short lived and as far as I'm aware I have no impact now. The wife and I knew each other at the time and she knows of these actions. Our previous relationships did not make the choice for us to marry. As I have said she was an OW before. We both have made mistakes in the past and continue to make them. It is whether we are willing to learn from them and are truly repentant that will shape our future

I never thought about being the OM before it affected me. Makes you realise how selfish betrayal can be

Yeah. That's how the OM feel about you. You aren't on their radar which is why we've told you to yell so loud.

I also guarantee you your wife thinks it is pretty rich that you have this in your past yet are criticising her. She'd be an unusual wayward if she didn't use your past faults against you to justify her own.

It scotches her argument if you've dealt with it, done all you can and are remorseful. Self-exposure also protects you from being exposed by others. Take ownership of the skeleton in the closet and control it.

Are you interested in making amends? I wouldn't suggest you contact them personally (that's a bit horrible for a BS) but there are things you can do.

How do you box original posts to reply to?

In past wife was OW as well as I OM. Not justifying it but I think she has forgotten it. She has enough faults to use already. Its always be out there wife was a friend at the time of me being an OM. She was there when I was dumped by the WW. At the time of being 'dumped' it didnt bother me. But after I would stay away knowing no good would come of it. Its not something I'm proud of now.
I came here looking for help to find answers to a problem I did not know how to fix. I knew there is no simple remedy. I knew there were questions I hadnt even thought of and answers I didnt want to hear. I dont know what I will do when my phone starts ringing. I dont know what I will do if it does not. What I do know is I'm away from my home in a space where I can try and sort things out.
The thread you posted about WWs opened another line of thought and my eyes.
How would one make amends?

Press quote or quick quote. Make sure the text starts with this 'quote=Bluebeck' but instead of quote marks it should be surrounded by these brackets [ ], the text should end with /quote surrounded by the brackets too.



No, she thinks it is OK and that you, she, everybody is doing it.



Yes I know.



There is only two things you can do.

1)First, make sure the BH knows. Perhaps get someone else to contact him and expose you
2) The second thing is to answer all questions and pledge to stay severely away.

In your shoes I would do the following:
I'd get someone, perhaps your brother, to write them a line saying:

"Dear BH, My brother wishes to confess to an extramarital A with your DW over the period of time x/x/x to x/x/x . Some of the dates he was with your wife are for example, the night of x/x/x, the day of x/x/x and the weekend of x/x/x when she told you she was really at x. She was not.

Mr brother, (full name) knew your wife/met your wife at xxxx and began their relationship as friends/colleagues/whatever. The A ended due to x, instigated by x. He wishes to come clean because he since married and has been the victim of an affair himself.

He has asked me to contact you on his behalf because he feels direct contact may be more offensive and hurtful to you. However he is contactable on his cell phone/landline xxxxxxx and will answer any questions you chose to put to him. I am very sorry to be the bearer of such bad news.

Kind regards, Brother

Also make sure you tell anyone who is close to you.

This is not a secret you want WW holding over you!

It waswell known at the time as was in work

Does this mean your parents and siblings know? Close friends? Or do you mean the workplace knows?

It was about 15 years ago and family friends and work.

More like 12 as wife was around

Cool that's one less thing you need to do. The most important exposure target is the BH though.

That will take some searching and questioning. She worked under maiden name will have to ask around to see if I got it right.

And back to now and the reality of my choices. Parents on vacation until middle of next week. Not sure how surprised they will be as they expected me last Monday. Think I've surprised myself by actually doing this. Not sure how I feel? Sad, relieved,lonely,stupid? Kind of glad nobody is here gives me a chance to wrestle my own feelings.

Did you leave a Plan B letter and move out?
Did you mail a copy of the letter to OM?
Do you have an IM?

Yes
It will get to him
Told possible iM I have left awaiting response.


Awaiting response from anyone, not had contact with anyone, my side or hers since leaving

Second guessing. s she relieved,shocked/surprised? Knowing how stubborn she is and how she is used to getting her own way she s probably happy for NC.
A couple of things said to me yesterday that help:

'Just look out for yourself in the meanwhile and certainly dont worry about what anybody else thinks.'

Concentrate on you pal. Get yourself straight. Its tough but you can do it. (This was from someone who has experienced against them affairs/divorce and has an understanding of the thrill of the affair, the fantasy).

'When you hide from the truth, the truth has a habit of coming to find you'.

NC should be a matter of willpower. Work will prove my obstacle. Having worked in the same place until just before Christmas the wife still has people she occasionally speaks to. They will get her spin before long. Then its gossip/rumour. How will I handle this? I dont know until someone asks me. I feel I must give my view of events. She wanted to separate to carry on A, I wanted her to stop and work on marriage. All second guessing.

She has never lived on her own. Certainly Mon-Fri evenings she will notice the difference as OM has not been able to commit to this time. ENs, DS, Conversation(a phone is no substitute for a person), companionship. Financial support, she feels she earns enough to cope but is still in a probationary period with her new job and will have divorce realities weighing on her mind. She been used to her independance even with me around how will OM see this?
Me I have the added distraction of a busy period of work before a legal consultation. Time to get finances separated, bills in my name to hers. I'm not going to be in the same house second guessing her movements. Let her get on with it I have to concentrate on me. This will let us both know how we will be affected by divorce (I'm still going back and forth through SAA). I will try not to be too hasty and file right away. I would love to have Adultery as the reason but do I really want a divorce? I must not be hasty.
Posting this serves to let my thoughts out.
I can only take this time to figure out what I want.

Did you send a copy of the letter to your company president? I would contact him/her and inform them that OM (working for same company) is having an affair with your wife and you do not want to see or be around OM.

If coworkers ask, you can tell them that your wife is having an affair and it is very difficult for you.
Or you can just say that you don't want to discuss her ongoing affair because it is too upsetting.

Ongoing is not with OM working at company. He is the historical one night stand.
And I don't think I will be discussing with anyone if asked

I would still inform the company President that OM coworker had an affair with your wife and ask the company to keep him away from you

OM co worker works other side of country cannot see contact being an issue but will take the advice and inform if necessary. Would exposure of this conflict with 'going dark'?

No, exposure would not conflict with Plan B.
Dr. Harley would encourage you to expose to the employer.

Edit: also post both OM on www.cheaterville.com

Made the mistake of checking out FB seems the wife is no longer married!

Just delete your facebook account.

I will deactivate Fb. OM 2 affair I have brought up with some of her family in past ( me drunk accusation) and she has spun it away. Tempted to use copies of messages? Ideas thoughts?

You do not have to prove what you know to be true when you expose.

Would I use/tweak same exposure letter as before to family/friends

I will draft something and post here. Do I acknowledge fact first exposure fell on deaf ears, not trying to be vindictive etc.

In the Exposure 101 thread there's already a letter for family and friends.

Why are you exposing again? Different OM?

Yes different OM from 2 years ago. Just found conclusive evidence. Left gone to plan B. Trying to work out my reasoning/options/feelings

One of my main concerns is am I obsessing and not giving myself enough time to process things. Am I reacting rather than acting?

Was OM2 married at the time?

Did I understand this correctly, you've left and are in Plan B?

Yes left and in plan B. OM2 not married at time, one night stand.

I need to share I'm driving myself nuts. I know Plan B is not about quick returns and it does not heal the pain right away. But its tough. I find myself doubting my decision. Its the not knowing that had me questioning her in the first place. And its the not knowing that has me missing her now. I have to remind myself I had to leave. Its not the continuing loss of respect she had for me but the loss of respect for myself. Every LB deposit I tried to make was being met with 2 withdrawals every time we spoke. Its like she primed everyone before making her move so any attempt I made would fail. I know she expects me to break NC in no time and I really want to. And its only been 2 days! How can I focus on me when all I think of is her.

IN PLan B, you try to focus on yourself by avoiding ALL contact with your wife until she ends her affair.

As for OM, you certainly need to expose it to your employer since you work for the same company. You should write a letter to the President and a key VP.

Concerned about exposing to employer. OM works in another division and affair was 2 years ago. My concern is a very good friend of wife(and one whos been backing her) is in a senior position (much like a vp). I'm worried any form of exposure will leak and get back to wife.

Also any form of workplace exposure will come back to bite me. If I am to expose OM I would need to do out of the work arena. I assume letter to a boss covers me if it spills over into work

Possible second exposure letter for friends/family. Those that haven't blocked me anyway!

Dear friends and family

Recently I informed you of the affair that XXXX is involved in with XXXX. Sadly I have recently discovered evidence of a previous affair XXXX(wifes name) had with XXXX which took place in XXXX in XmonthX 20XX. At this time there was no request of separation . I still believe the purpose for a separation now is so that XXXX can carry out her affair. She still refuses to end this affair. I still want our marriage to recover from this affair. Again I ask you to use any influence you have with XXXX to persuade her to end this affair. Please support her in doing the right thing. Please support our marriage.

Warmest Regards.

Any thoughts? One I have is remembering when asking my WS to end the affair she hated the word 'affair'. Always she said its not an affair we are separated to which I would always remind her we are still married. I know I'm in plan B and further exposure will tarnish her memory of me. Others also may see me as bitter or in denial. But it would validate the first exposure and I'm already cast as the bad guy, what have I got to lose. Even though I'm telling the truth (and have a web page with a less racy confirming message, as found in exposure 101) could this be seen as unreasonable behaviour ? I don't want to give her ammo to divorce me!

Just had MIL message me to see how I am. There's genuine affection there and she has previously stated she doesn't agree with wifes actions but that the marriage was in trouble anyway. She advised me before to make it hard for me wife. Hard responding with short answers trying to avoid discussing how things stand.

Only a mother can bring you to tears. I ended messages by saying I still stand by what I put in letter (PBL) She replied 'thanks it means a lot to me'. Seems I do have some support from 'the other side'.

Here's your show.
Radio Clip of Bluebeck's Show

Thanks I was looking for that the other day forgot about it in 'the move'

Hi that was Tuesdays show I think mine was Wednesday. I will try to listen again when back from work tomorrow

Sorry about that. Here's Wednesday's show.
Radio Clip of 3-19-14's Show

Let me know.

Sir, this guy was screwing your wife and you are worried that she will be upset if you expose him at work?
That sounds crazy!

You should expose to the President and a key VP, and ask that you never work with or see this man again.

I meant exposure to company may warn wife of family exposure. Would rather tell work before I expose.

OM 2 exposure best to do ASAP?

yes expose asap. all at once

I'm concerned by my companies social media policy. My exposure will be done via private message on Facebook. Even though I am telling the truth I do not want to jeopardise my employment by contravening any policies or guidelines.

They can not control whats posted IN PRIVATE on Facebook.

LTL

This second exposure is to support claims of first exposure which fell on deaf ears. I was going to include evidence. As the OM in this case works for same company I am worried about him being posted copies of this message and using it in a inappropriate behaviour or harassment complaint. Ive seen people dismissed for less. UK just to clarify

Think I'm obsessing too much here. Supposed to be clearing my head, hoping she comes out the fog and try to recover. Not go after her

This man was screwing your wife and you are more concerned about offending a manager by exposing him?

Would the company approve of you sending him a box of condoms to use for their next affair?

I don't even know this man or you, and I already hate him.
Good grief! What happened to you English? I feel like I'm more upset that he screwed your wife than you are.

Sir have you watched John Wayne movies?
Can you watch The Quiet Man or The Searchers?

Getting my legal advice tomorrow and need to tie up some financials. Then I will do this.
On another point my car has broken down. Wife via MIL offered me use of her personnel ( she has a company car). I simply replied I'm getting mine fixed. Correct response I believe

Could not wait exposed to family and friends as before. Also to a couple on OM side. Will have to wait and see what sticks or gets read!

NO! Incorrect response!
ALL communication should be through IM

Expose to the employer also

So if MIL says Hi be polite. Any reference to WS however small or seemingly insignificant ignore

Any reference to WS should be: "I very much want to save our marriage. If you have any influence over her please ask her to end her affair. She has hurt me deeply and I can no longer discuss her with you."

Yes of course do not ignore situation but do not vary from standpoint of PBL

Just had SIL contact saying she didn't want to take sides! I used the prescribed response!

Now the hard part, go dark and wait!

Do you have an IM?

What did your lawyer say?

Just going to see if IM up to the task as just stripped back joint account and need to pass on relevant financial details

Lawyer said to just pass on financials?

Legal advice was for options if the road of Divorce was to be followed. I could file for Adultery or unreasonable behaviour straight away. She could file for unreasonable behaviour straight away. Otherwise a 2 year wait to file as long standing separation. I do not want to file straight away. Financials would be discussed if Divorce or Legal separation is filed. The financials at the moment are household bills and services that come out of the joint account where my last wage packet went. From next month my wages go into my personal account and WS will need to pay bills from her personal account. Those are the only details at present.

Woke up today feeling completely miserable. Irrationally I feel this is all my fault. She's out there living it up and I'm trying to work out what's next. Time takes too long.

Scratch that last post. I need to get out and keep myself busy. There's a works social at weekend I was going to avoid but instead I will go out today get a new shirt and plan to go. See how long I last! But go I must. Been trying to keep up running but knee keeps hurting so knee support required. Need to read other threads and stop feeling sorry for myself

So you aren't in Plan A anymore?

Use ice on your knee after runs and at night.
A chiropractor may also be able to help your knee.

(I am a distance runner and racer)

Thanks J. Can't see where I'm going if I'm too busy looking back where I was!
Yes Brain in B one week today.

Also, you can train in a pool with a knee injury. Run in the pool

Usually run beside the sea may try that instead!!

You need to use ice after a run, and at night.
I use a trash can, fill with ice water and place your leg in it. An ice pack won't get the knee cold enough.

Then train in a pool for a week or two.

Your knee should improve within a couple weeks using that method.

If needed, use Ibuprofin. It is like a miracle drug to reduce inflamation

Big mistake I text the wife

Why would you do that?

What did you text?

Do not text her in plan B.

Why? Weakness pure weakness.
Text to say back on FB if she wanted to check my last post where I have entered a local charity run later this year. She thought my running and getting fit as part of my 'changes' was all a ruse.
She replied no I have blocked you (FB). I replied remember I dont hate you to which she came back with anger regarding second exposure and my registering of legal rights on the home which in her words I have paid F all towards. I reply now youre getting nasty, rights not about money but making sure she doesnt run away and we will never be friends. I said I was about if she wanted to talk she said no. Then I said ok back to silence I will wait for you. Reply was 'by involving my family like that, I will see you in court'. I told her she wouldnt need court as I wouldnt fight her and she replies 'stop contacting me I am filing for divorce'. I then first text Sorry you have to end it this way followed by,
This really is my last message. Just to apologise for the hurt I have caused. I hope you understand my intentions are not vindictive. Maybe misguided at times. You are still special to me and we are both reacting badly. So for the sake of any recoverable friendship I will leave you alone again until you can find it in yourself to remember me.

Guess Ive really blown it now!

NO!
Do NOT apologize for exposure!

This is the problem with breaking plan B.
You appear weak.

Don't contact her again.
TURN OFF Facebook.

Think I've forced my own hand to do so now. It's like some part of me wants her to go through with it so I can move on. Yet the heart wants to stay.
I wanted to know how she was. Now I know.
Made things tougher for myself.

On a positive note at least people can learn from my mistakes!

Yea, just focus on running for now.
Running is a sport that can be very healthy and lifelong.

Is your diet good also?

Diets getting better. Shift work doesn't help but it takes some forward planning.
Also my minds a bit clearer now. I feel like I've blown it so I must move forward.
Next thing to lose is the smoking! Why is it I seem to enjoy the things that are bad for me!

How can you run and smoke?

I think Plan B will help you a lot.

Running and smoking? Not at same time!
It's a bit like plan B you try a bit more each day and even if there is pain there you get used to it. You just need to be honest with yourself at least, no use running on a broken foot.
Glad I shared the misdeeds of the WS. She may never change but we all will know why I did

Close your eyes, clear your heart, cut the cord....

Okay since you contacted WW yesterday, correct?

Today will be day one of Plan B?

What Plans do you have for yourself this weekend?

Busy work all weekend with a work social in the middle.
Wife just text me regarding mail. What's a good arrangement I can send through IM?

You're in Plan B, why is she texting you? Did you not change your number or the very least block her number?

It isn't Plan B if you're still communicating.

Need to block number! Just sent IM an email to pass on. Any mail to be given to a mutual friend and to refer to details of no contact as in letter left

Not managed to block/change number yet and had 4 missed calls off the wife(because I kept rejecting them). This time of night she's probably had a drink too! Well she knows where the IM is!

Alot of waywards hate Plan B, because they aren't allowed to cake eat.

The best thing will be to change your number. Will you do this?

That's what I'm going to have to do and keep doing. Too many mutual work contacts and phone used for work. Carrier will not block and I-phone too old for ios7 and call blocking

You will need to change numbers; it is impossible to be in Plan B with her calling and texting you.

Time for an interesting night! Out with the work lot and me not boozing! Oh well if I don't feel like it remember 'smile like you mean it'. Which ironically we joked about having as our wedding dance!
Choices eh!

Have you changed your number yet?

Have not changed number yet. Neither did I drive past house last night to see if she was in!
Works night out last night. Had on all new clothes from the shoes and socks up I thought I'd feel good, new clothes new man. Nah was the same old me. People asked 'how's the wife'? I kept it simple 'ok keeping busy'! I felt like making it more colourful but I didn't. Kind of a wash out night when your minds not there. Nobody knew, I played my part. Could of hit on the ladies, got my revenge, but I chose not to. And that's what it's about - choices. She made hers!
I found myself angry all day today and its taken all day to realise I'm angry with myself. Here I am feeling sorry for myself because I upset her by telling the truth! Well that was my choice and I can live with that. Her choice- him or me. Well she's made that one but I'm being gracious enough to let her change her mind.
My choice- get on with things, its still going to hurt whatever!
Mortgage advisor Thursday see how I stand up financially, keeping all options open. Oh and phone company when open tomorrow to change my number. She wants me she can chase round for it or she knows where the IM is!

Feel free to tell people the truth.

Its not always the telling its getting people to believe. A couple of colleagues who are mutual friends, I have told. One has had contact recently with my WS and heard a limited side of things. Obviously when I explain the basic facts the penny drops. This friend is not one to take sides but does sympathise with my situation. Its a relief to have someone who can see your side. Like I said they will not take sides but I'm pretty sure they will spoil the fantasy!

Mobile number changed now to post it to facebook ............kidding!

Good support from friends responding to number change saying glad to see youre moving on. Had to explain Im getting on not moving on.

Reading other threads I've got off lightly yet still the silence is deafening. Spend a lot of my time working on my own and the mood swings are frequent. Usually ending in melancholy. I get the comparison with bereavement but its that little bit harder knowing they're still there

That's good;
In the meantime, kick that smoking habit. Its a bad vice.

I used to smoke, but quit. Sunday I ran a half marathon and yesterday I donated blood!

You will feel great once you quit.

One thing at a time! It's hard enough not having a drink. Still feel like I'm being punished for telling the truth while she probably doesn't feel she's done anything wrong. Yes I have support in many directions but still feel alone in this

well, in that case have another cigarette!
What brand do you smoke?

Usually roll my own golden Virginia otherwise good old b& h. See what you done there I switched it off for a bit. I know whatever happens I will look back and? Until then must have a little faith this is all part of the plan.

I used to roll Top tobacco or Bugler tobacco.
I also liked Lucky strike

I liked smoking in my own home rather than hiding out in my parents conservatory. Everything's upside down and the wrong way round. Still another day down. Visit family tomorrow I think get some distraction or I will crawl inside myself and forget who I am

You guys are old school. My grandfather would roll Prince Albert in his Zig Zags. Then he'd grab a six pack of Bud and listen to Hank Williams.

DO NOT do that!
You have a moral obligation to live and love life.

Well the sun is shining today I can only try and catch it up

Gut shoot. Just come home to mail she has redirected. Funny not the land registry form in there! Someone's still in their world of not doing anything wrong. Time for a run I think

Oh the irony. Need at least 5K for a mortgage deposit. Should of betrayed my principles and took her bribe a few weeks ago! Well now I know my options in that respect, head up knuckle down and save. While she lives the life of Reilly without a thought for me.
Been whining to a friend who said 'stop tormenting yourself, give her a chance to miss you'. I've never had patience and I'm learning a valuable lesson in it now.
On a plus catching up on loads of tv!

If you get a chance, I would encourage you to watch a "john wayne" movie. It shows you what the American west was once like

There's a lot of John Wayne films out there! Guess I've got a lot of waiting?

I'm focusing on myself but still getting drip fed info on the wife. Our network of current and former friends/work friends/colleagues make it almost impossible to cast a dark net. Many know not to approach me with info but the odd gossip slips through. It's only been a short time since I left and the continuing pain and mixture of emotion is confusing at best. I'm still managing a brave face and positive demeanour, nobody likes a sulker. I also find keeping a journal of sorts helps to express the negative (like posting on here)! So then the world can see the positive me.
Some have commented I look ill, until corrected that I am actually leaner and fitter. No drinking and running can do that in such a short time.
I find myself trying to look objectively on news of my WS. She's not broadcast our situation but has mentioned to a select few how we have separated and she has a new boyfriend (fog babble)! But she's also shutting off those she would normally chat and have coffee with.
Some of my mail is being redirected. It has her mothers handwriting on it as the wife won't do it. I doubt she's even cleaning the house. I believe her mother is doing this as when the WS has time at weekends (OM has his kids and she's not in on that). Instead she's out partying like last night and all day today.
I hear a lot of you reading this saying NO! This is not plan B font focus on the wife.(random Bruce lee quote 'its like a finger pointing to the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all the heavenly glory).
Like I said I'm trying to be objective. She's running round with some new found freedom. I think she's losing control little by little. I'd like to step in, make contact, fill the needs she's missing. If I did that now I'd still be that lovesick puppy that gets kicks not kisses. I could go lose control myself, go pick up women or devalue myself some other way. But I won't!
I still know I want my wife in my life. In what way I'm unsure. Liars still lie and cheaters still cheat? I'm learning the hard way? But what's good for the goose is good for the gander and right now it's space. She needs to devolve I need to evolve. I may shed my tears but I will keep them to myself.
Let the gossips gossip. I've only time for me. And when the time comes she does contact me I hope I can find the strength to not be a doormat anymore and if she wants to be in my life it's on my terms. Let her do what she must, you can't just let go of years spent together day in day out. There's too many good memories. She's dealing by trying to ignore it all. I'm dealing with it by letting my emotions run amok and venting.
But I have time to sort them out

Remember, you will miss her more and focus on her good qualities ...forgetting the bad while separated.

In Plan B, you have no contact...waiting for the affair to die a natural death.

Have to keep coming here to remind myself of this.
It is hard. All the good memories with no contact! Again I come here and remind myself why.
I talk to a friend who went through similar. They did all the wrong things, revenge relationships, begging etc. got them to the same place but not as strong. They are helping me learn from their muatakes

That's why Dr. Harley recommends Plan B a dark Plan B.

What have you been doing for yourself? What self-care have you been doing? Running, church?

Running whenever I can. Work work work and trying to make time for family

I ran 8 miles today and did about 200 push ups!

Are you wearing proper running shoes? That is very important.

New shoes bought way back at start of all this! She even bought me new shorts thinking this is something I'd give up on! Currently averaging 5 miles a run. Been busy with work all weekend an today. Can't wait to get back out tomorrow

Probably not being dark enough. I think some people have been relaying back my pain and negative emotions. Need to guard myself more and show the positive

You being dark means for you to be dark about her as well so you can withdrawal and not be affected by her in any way. Anytime you hear about her its only going to do harm and torture you.

Yes I totally agree. I end up torturing myself. I just want to go home but its not there anymore. Just can't seem to switch it off. Give me an hour I will be fine again!

Just read on another thread 'fake it til you make it'. Too right until then my grief goes here!

Just had a meltdown with a friend who speaks to ww. They haven't spoken to her yet but trying to encourage me to speak to WW to see how I stand. Wobbling on the negativity and lack of hope with a lot of angry outbursts. Also just getting people asking about me and how I am as I've moved out. I can see the need now to withdraw as my heads not right for this now. I moved out as my mental state was getting worse. As I've stated and been rightly told everything is still raw and unstable. Need to switch them all off and get my right.

Had to reply to one message asking if I was ok. I simply put 'I didn't want to move out but as my wife didn't want to end her affair and work on our marriage it was all I could do to preserve my love for her'.
As my anger subsides I realise still I need to stay my course if only to retain my self respect

6 miles in 60 minutes! Need to be up to 10 by October. Time limit set! Should not of stopped for a smoke half way!

I dont know how you can run 6 miles and take a smoke break.
Those cancer sticks make running difficult

Joking about the smoke break! Don't find myself out of breath although I could up my pace it's strength building I need (funny that)! Been building up same route and its getting easier every time. Uh oh I see an analogy coming......

Make sure your taking care of your feet. I recommend a pedicure and foot massage monthly. That's awesome your running its very fun and relieves a lot of stress. Now you need to stop using those white cancer sticks of death lol

Sometimes I roll sometimes its the tailor made, its another little thing to keep the mind busy and away from dwelling on other people.
Ordered some weights, another thing to keep me busy. My jobs not very physical so with this spare time on my hands I may as well try something

What part of 'I don't want to know' do people not understand? Just been reliably informed WS is engaged in 'flirty' communication with someone else! Funny thing is I kind of find it funny she is cheating on those who she cheated on me with.
And it's weird as it doesn't actually bother me that much. She's already done the damage and as many a poster has put 'she's been replaced by an alien'. I'm all about me for now and if my wife comes back I will worry about that then.
Had to share this or it would rattle round my head messing it up!
Now back to me! May just have a smoke and howl at the moon!

Further feedback. Wife misses me and was surprised I left.
Yes misses her cake and surprised how? When she was threatening me daily with divorce and running out to meet OM. Pressure is mounting on affair.
Not on me, whatever's happening I'm taking some me time!

Also found out OM didn't want WS to reveal A to me. Says a lot for that commitment. Also she is 'happy' at moment, but also worried all I will do is hold this over her. Don't worry I'm not going to go in and make contact I have to let her live with her decisions as it all comes tumbling down around her and the house continues to get bigger. I know getting this info goes against a dark plan B but knowing kind of makes me feel better for my decision to leave. Whatever's going on we need space from each other and I need this 'me' time

How are you finding these things out if you're in Plan B?

A work colleague who speaks to her has passed on info. It's like I'm the addict myself don't want to know but can't help it!

Tough to get going today. Exercise is tiring to body but not the heart and mind. Downside of getting any info. I see she still sees no wrong in what she is doing and has no idea of the pain she has caused me. It's just another day for her. I know I have to let this play out and even then there's no guarantees to getting things back. I feel vengeful one moment pitiable the next. Oh well see what a 14 hour shift can do to my spirits

Again scratch last post. I'm stuck in a vicious circle of emotion. The marriage I had is gone. Need to let this play out. 'Stop all the clocks, cut off the telephone, prevent the dog from barking with a juicy bone'.
Things need to start again. Things need to go back to the start. Which is why NC is best. Resist the urge to call/text/mail everything. Make the change in me and if its meant to be, start with the friendship first. I'm not a vengeful person or I would of put this to bed by now. It's only 3 weeks today (2 if you include hiccup) next it will be only 6 weeks. I don't know how I will feel in half hour just need to try and get on with it

You are in a BAD work environment.
One of the OM works for your company and your wife knows the co-workers.
I would expose the OM to the company and then work on getting another job. You can't get away from her while remaining at that place.

Been looking for a different job for last year. Can't afford a pay cut especially now. Wife used to work in same company so everybody seems to know our business. I'm in a bad place full stop. If I try and shut everyone out my head will explode

Sir, you cant afford to stay there.
It is toxic, poison to you.
I would quit job, and move FAR away.
Start over.

Can you at least transfer?

Works not the problem as the people under my supervision are not involved. It's one person whos heavily involved in both mine and WS lives. They agree with my NC but I can't help myself prying out info.

So you're the one prying? They aren't just volunteering the information?

Bit of both really. Spent so long snooping and discovering A finding it hard to break the habit.

Yes, understand.

What can you do to stop talking about her with this person?

Win the war with myself! I know if I ask they will stop. This person has both our interests in hand. Thinks I should be done with her for cheating but supporting my decisions however daft some may be. They were there when we found out she was pregnant and the first there when we lost the chance of parenthood. Someone who can ask the questions I'm afraid to ask myself.

Found I'm just stuck in that circle of looking for answers where there are none. Still frustrated that WS still sees and will probably always see no fault in her actions. Friend was aware of possible EA before Christmas and how things unfolded and agrees with it being an affair not a new boyfriend. Still doesnt change facts. I'm aware that any search for info brings two words to mind, begging and needy. Neither are good. Sounding like a broken record and I'm winding myself up with a need for attention. It's not feeling any easier but hopefully I'm recognising the negative paths.
Tough weekend as should of been with wife at her sisters with kids, part of the price of this self imposed exile

Is this NC because WW sisters knew, enabled, the affair?

No ww sister got sucked in too. But she's still her sister, asked her to help save marriage but she doesn't want to take sides, still her sister. Sent Easter greetings to SIL and gifts for kids. Obviously ww there this weekend!

Can anyone answer me this? She has shown no respect for me, is probably lying when she says she still cares for me and is carrying on her life like I don't exist. Yet I still hold a hope that things can be recovered. Am I delusional?

This is why you're in Plan B.

You need to really try and concentrate on your own path and healing. What can you do for yourself today?

Finish work go home go to bed. One minute I feel like going round and setting house on fire(doubt I would) next I want to send her flowers and doubt I tried hard enough before I left!!!!!

This kind of thinking will make you go crazy.

Have you been to your doctor for some ADs/Anti-anxiety meds?

No meds. Just home wind down I've had my vent got my attention!

Plan B is letting me keep the crazy locked away or put on here not affecting anyone else. To the rest of the world I'm doing good. I updated a friend with my situation earlier today and it felt good to say why I'm staying away. And it felt good to believe myself. Things don't fix overnight just got to hold on to this bumpy ride

Bluebeck,

Since you already enjoy running I encourage you to take it further.
Pour all of your energy into running.
Run for your life and sanity.
Run in races.
Run a marathon.

Quit smoking tomorrow.
Intensive exercise will KILL depression.

I also encourage you to read the Bible. Specifically, the books of Tobit and Hosea. If you don't own a Bible you can read them online. They are about marriage and adultery and how a woman changed her heart and returned to her busband.

The battle I'm in is in my mind. I have a light work week. I will run I will read I will do anything I can to keep my mind occupied and my heart too busy to break

Somewhere over the rainbow is a surprisingly good song to run (bounce) to and not the Judy Garland or Eva Cassidy versions!

Popped to the house to get a few last bits and she's changed the locks! Legally I could break in but there's no reason to. Sensible really as there must be many what ifs going through her mind. What if I've had a few drinks and decide to pay a late visit? I know she's done this in a reaction to my establishing legal rights on the property and I guess it shows her frame of mind. Paranoid? Still if I need anything I can use IM to arrange collection. Plus it stops me wanting to snoop!

She probably wants privacy for herself and her affair partners

Harsh! Would of been cheaper to ask me for my key!

Again I have to remind myself why I'm not picking up the phone and calling. Second guessing will only drive me nuts. I can only change what I do. I'm going through highs and lows. I do still care for her even after the choices she has made. She is lost, I am too. Eventually you find your way out. In my impatience I'm forgetting to enjoy this time to myself. I'm on a day off wasting time until my routine run time. There's many people out there who would love even half the chance. I need to try and remember things like this when I'm not feeling sorry for myself!

Weekly, usually after church I write down at least 5 things I am grateful for with my DS helping. At the end of the month we put them on the refrigerator to remind us that life could be alot worse.

Just reminded me of the other night out on a run I was ready to give up and passed two gents on prosthetic legs. Think I put in an extra mile

Just been informed wife has announced on FB we are now separated!

I know it's a text for a reaction but she's not going to get it. All she is getting is sympathies from part time friends who don't know the whole story. Although her posting the song Another Love straight after wont do her any favours. Good discussion had with friend who revealed this and knows wife. They can see she's in the fog and not being herself. Trouble is right now I'm more concerned about my WS than myself. But I must keep my distance. Trouble for my WS is when she wakes up from this crisis I may not be there anymore. I'm too nice a person sometimes but I've drawn my line in the sand!

Another thought she's obviously getting help and advice and she's still drinking still imploding. I am getting advice and although I have my self pity and mental moments I am trying to remain positive change my lifestyle change myself for the better. Must be something about the advice I'm getting!
Cheers all!

Still thinking! Why am I not vindictive enough to post 'by the way we are separated because my wife refuses to end her affair and work on our marriage'. Oh yes it's because I've already told the people who matter. Whether they choose to support or ignore the situation is theirs to live with. I find a relief in the fact she has 'gone public' with this. She will face questions and will probably spin a lie or two to garner sympathy. I will not lie but neither will I muck rake for those intent on gossip.
One post here that sticks with me throughout and I'm quite fond of quoting is 'When you hide from the truth it has a way of finding you'.

Start a journal of gratitude and every day, write down somthing you are thankful for.
Every day, thank someone for something they do.

Weirdly I'm thankful to my WS for giving me this chance to work on myself. I've always been a talker not a doer. But if you asked my a month ago to run 6 miles I would of scoffed!

And Thank you all for your advice

You're welcome.
The longer you stay in Plan B, the better you will feel.

Noted. The lines been drawn must stay behind it. I can only control me

7 miles

Enjoying this solitude and time to find myself with the relief of no expectation from anyone. Unfortunately the heart sighs and the mind ticks! I've accepted the marriage I had is over yet I still wear my ring. It's still early days yet and my emotions are still conflicting but I still have to look at the road ahead.
So if

WW contacts me says A is over, made a mistake, wants to work on marriage.
Plan A EPs and steps to recovery etc.

WW just wants to talk.
Nothing's changed stay in B anything more is for IM and solicitors.

But what if
WW wants to talk, says A is over (this will probably include saying marriage still over but wants to stay friends). Obviously could still be lying about A. Sources could confirm general feeling. Would I then go back to plan A avoiding all talks of divorce etc. take small steps to establish situation of A and see where to next?
It's this one I'm unsure of as the other two are pretty much 'text book'

Did your Plan B letter outline the Precise steps that she would have to DO to possibly see if reconciliation was still a viable alternative?

If not, what did it say?

Without following the steps outlined in demonstrable Actions, everything else would be putting the cart before the horse.

LTL

Letter was pretty much ripped off the templates here. Said cant be with you or help you until you end relationship. Until affair ends and are willing to work on plan of reconcilliation I will avoid seeing or talking to you.

I'm apprehensive of 'first contact'. When it comes I need to be prepared not to jump straight in with an all or nothing plan.
I'm committed to NC until affair ends, I added no specifics about no contact letters and EPs etc. I'm more concerned with that initial connection where we establish where to go next.

Must add knowing my WW she would see PBL as an ultimatum and even when affair ends cut off her nose to spite her face and use it as an exit affair to see things to an end.
I know I'm playing a guessing game and expectation is the root of all heartache. I'm also trying to prepare myself for any window of opportunity to stall any final plans.

Bluebeck,

If something like this happens please post here FIRST before doing anything

That's my plan. Good bit of advice from a friend 'let her get on with it'!

Sundays, usually a low day for me. Even before the A. Usually stuck at work and W off, waste of possible time together. Anyway woke this morning with that usual pit in the stomach feeling like somethings missing. But knew I would finish early today so can get a run in (kind of addicted now, missed the last 2 days due to work, like the routine).

Get to seafront and sorting my headphones ready to start. A lady comes jogging past on her way back from her run, sees me ready to start smiles and says 'you'll enjoy it tonight, its lovely out there'. I smile back, say I hope so and thank you.

And it was lovely out there. I didnt think about her (WS) I didnt even think about me. I just ran. I went Forrest Gump (well almost). I ended up doing 12 miles while still keeping my average pace of 10 a minute. At the start of this month I signed up for a 10 mile race in October to give me a focus. I still have this focus. Now I know its achievable I can work on doing it better.
Also I will be raising money for the British heart foundation.
Please someone see the irony in that!

You should run some half marathons

33 days since my exit. So where am I? Well 7 miles in 1hour 2mins today! Target that under an hour then improve. Physically I feel great and actually keeping a steady healthy weight. Mentally....
Still cant work it out. Think thats normal as when do we ever have it all worked out. Strange place I am in. Kind of enjoy the isolation but crave attention. Got an App that posts my run stats, been getting good comments and encouragement. Albeit one or two who know my situation and are helping me maintain focus. It is after all good for the heart!
Still feeling part of me is missing. Still think of W first and last thing. Mostly fond thoughts, mostly down to my departure time. I dont hate her neither do I wish to. Its just sad she has chosen the path she has.
Silence reigns in NC its almost as if shes doing the same. Even her attention grab FB post of our separation died quick with the fairweather friends soon blowing away. I know I should not dwell but its good to voice my thoughts. Friends have been good in their silence either to help not remind me or to avoid me whining!! She is still avoiding some good friends (ones I would call friends of marriage), yet still keeps in with her 'fog folk'. Just got tho let her get on with it, even if it seems she is burying her head. Ive done nothing wrong and I still cant change her feelings or her choices to make. Like mine to step away and fight to stay positive. Its hard but I wont let this break me.
So where am I really? Same place as 33 days ago just with less of the drama and a slightly stronger foundation.

Sir, I've been in Plan B (and divorced) for 2 years....and it still feels strange to me too!

Sorry got to say it. Guess its a Marathon not a Sprint!

Wobble time! Just passe wife (in Car) she was stood outside restaurant having a smoke. Brief eye contact made. I swung round to take a second look she was gone. Ducked inside. Stirred me up had to resist going back again. Feeling urge to contact but I wont! It will get her thinking of me? Better put a film on and try and switch off

Ignore wobble! Shower and a smoke clears the mind. I'd be worried if I didn't feel anything. Better that I drove away. What was I going to do drive up and down trying to catch a glimpse or park up and stake her out! 4 weeks ago maybe!!! There's going to come closer encounters than this possibly and the polite smile and carry on I can do. The fact she disappeared so quickly says she's still hiding from the truth, she won't forget about me! Anyway back to that film. Alien maybe?!?

Did you know she was going to be at that restaurant?

No idea she would be there pure fluke. Even the gossips have been quiet and I've stopped asking. Wish I'd smiled and waved rather than staring like an idiot!

I have a week off work next week. Debating whether to get a last minute deal and spend a few days abroad. Good idea or will I just be stewing elsewhere?

I think you should have a vacation. it's a good idea.
But stay out of trouble

I hear you!!
Done, booked paid. 10 years ago a my best friend died. At the time I didnt know what to do or where I was going. I did this then. Flew off abroad for a few days on my own to grieve, to find myself, to get some space. I'm not sure what but it helped a little.
The situation is similar here. Again I have lost my best friend but this trip is more about restoring my pride and my confidence. Also a swollen ankle has stopped me running so why not rest it somewhere I can rest my mind too.
I was apprehensive at first about this idea as it seemed like running away and not facing what life would be like divorced or on my own but I realise we can all draw strength from every positive action we take.
My trouble is resisting the urge to constantly post updatesto FB all the time Im away!!

Do you have access to a pool?
Try to run in the pool if you can.

I keep breaking the rules! Cos it feels right?!? I'm on holiday now but just had a message from W. 'why did you send me that'? What I sent was 'glad you found your yellow dress you look fabulously beautiful'.
A year or so ago we were shopping for outfits for a big event. She got her heart set on a yellow dress but we couldn't find anything right. Couple of days ago I got shown pictures of W in a new yellow dress for a friends party. Couldn't help myself had to tell her she looked good. She had now changed this to her profile pic.
My final response was to tell her she has and always will be my friend and I'm trying to limit contact as I don't agree with her choices.

Why would you promise to be friends with her when she commits adultery in front of you?

Do you like friends that take advantage of you, stab you in the back?

She knows she's doing wrong just wont admit it to herself yet. Call me soft call me weak but out of the A she is actually a good person.

I want my wife back! She doesn't love me she had moved on with new man. Even started to introduce him to some family! Should I still fight?

You should remain in Plan B.
She is a freeloader and you have laid forward a path to recovery. Her affair will likely die within 6 months of exposure

Yes plan b. it's dark, dark for me. But I need it. If only to sort my own head out

You need to stick to it.
I've been in a similar situation and I'm thankful that you dont have kids in this marriage.

Focus on yourself.

During my wifes affair I returned to having a relationship with God. The first step was attending church.
I had 3 children to care for that she left behind, so I learned how to become a single parent.
I read Atlas Shrugged...and that changed my perspective on many things, including my relationships.

You must live! It is evil to surrender your life because she has left you.

A tree in the forest must live, must strive to reach the canopy and obtain sunlight. It is against all laws of nature for the tree to willingly die so another tree may reach the sunlight first, killing the surrendering tree.

Part of my says stuff it all and smash the divorce through. But even that won't change what I think or feel.

If you can, watch a Clint Eastwood or John Wayne movie.
It will help you feel better

Been making a rod for my own back! Having a few beers while away makes me 'message happy'! Phone getting locked in safe going to enjoy the rest of my stay and back on the wagon when home. Time to switch it off for a bit!

Is that your way of saying you texted your wife while in Plan B?

Can you be more specific?

Yes I messaged wife while in plan b. she's not messaged back. I've left the door open for her but I won't stand there holding it. Way back in my thread I said she has problems even I can't solve, she still does. My problem is I still have her in my system and can't/don't want to shake her

To clarify last message was to ask her to give favourite niece a kiss and cuddle from me (niece birthday next week and it hurts to miss it) also to ask about family.

Just had a message from W to ask why I'm abroad. Like she cares! Gonna leave that one!

So you're really not in Plan B?

Why is she able to message you? Did you not change your phone number or block her?

Do you know that Plan B requires that you change all of those methods of communication? And that you actually stop using them?

Hi bluebeck

Been following your story. You were doing so well. I agree with lexxxy you need to change your number immediately. I did this only a week ago and I feel so much stronger already.

Back home. Had my blow out and realise I was doing better before. Fortunately lost my phone while away so that stopped the messaging. Also it was a sharp reminder of how easy it can be to message someone. FB is the only point of contact and have changed that.

A friend has just passed on a message that W wants me to ring her! Well considering nothings changed except me slipping out of B I need to stay strong and ignore.

Are you going to get a new phone and change your number and not give it to her?

Do you have an intermediary? I looked back a few pages but I could see no mention of one.

How is your wife supposed to contact you if she finishes her affair and wants to talk about reconciliation?

Have already changed number, she does not have this. Have IM who has new number and email. Messaged her via FB from Spain so she is only reacting as she still thinks I am out of the country. Nothings changed except for me breaking my own rules. I need to get back to doing what I was doing or Im just giving myself more pain.

Have you closed Facebook and ALL other avenues that she can contact you?

All closed. Only way to get hold of me is by coming and knocking the door or IM. There will be people who can pass on info second hand but I will have to manage that. It's only because I went abroad she tried to make contact, thinking I was up to something foolish. The only foolish thing I did was to have a few beers and message her! Must stick to my guns and remember the many reasons for this plan. Mainly I can't change or control her or her actions only myself and mine. It's hard work but one day at a time...

I think you should focus on running.
If you want inspiration, google "Rich Roll Ironman"
He was a regular overweight guy and bacame a world athlete at 40!

It seems to me that the problem is not so much stopping her from contacting you, as stopping YOU from contacting HER.

What is the point of sending a Plan B letter and setting up an IM if you are only going to send her messages like this one, sent 12th May:

"Trying to limit contact"? Wow, you're really putting your foot down, aren't you?

And another one sent about a day later:
Two messages in the last five days - that you've told us about. How is this Plan B, and what grounds do you have for telling her not to contact you when you behave like this?

All taken on board. It's down to me. I'm causing my own destruction. I admit my contacts here in the hope I learn my lesson and resist!

My idea for time away was to give myself a break. It was more like trying to escape reality. In having a few beers I also sent myself backwards.
Need to shake of the depression I'm putting myself in get back to the running and routine. I've had it easy compared to some

More than running. You are at the perfect opportunity to radically transform yourself.
Read about how Rich Roll quit drinking, smoking, etc and became an Ironman.
Then since you are already running 8 miles or so find a local half marathon race to run in.

First job of the day. Accept the situation you are in.
I can wallow in self pity all I want but it will not change the reality of my situation. Its still hard its still feels bad but a day of doing nothing will not help.
Must unpack. Not just from trip. Been living out of the suitcase since I left. Might as well make my surroundings tidy and comfortable.
Remove reminders. Losing my phone also lost a lot of needless photos held on it. Also computer I am using has a lot of old files and desktop icons that serve as constant reminders every time I switch it on.
Go for a run, even a short one is a start back in.

Been taking my wedding ring off and on. Some days I dont want the reminder. Other days I say I'm not giving up. I think I need it to remind me of why I am doing what I am doing and to turn that to a positive.

Take it one day at a time.
I also encourage you to visit a church tomorrow morning.

Wicked irony strikes again! I posted on another thread about keeping in the dark about WS. Yet I get fed info (from a source I need to tell to be quiet). WW has got pics of her out with OM up on FB. Yes its a kick but I cant let it put me down. In fact I am going for a run after I have posted this. It does however clear some of my own fog of denial. She is drunk on the A and has probably done a better job of exposure than I did. Hard not to over think it but March 18 I make initial exposure. April 22 she announces we are separated. May 19 shes got pics on FB! its almost laughable.

The Serenity prayer is a good one

She is a renter.
She was never a buyer.

Renter, yes. Even a couple of days ago reading that would of stung a little as in my head I would try and defend her. I'm not saying my feelings have changed for her, you can't always change what the heart wants. But I am coming to see her without the rose tinted spectacles. Reading threads on serial cheats and typical versus non typical waywards plus others I forget helps put things in black and white. However it's not so clear when you are dancing the fine line between heart and mind. But practice the steps..

Keep reading here it helps a lot.

Do you have Dr Harley's books?

Wow blown away by coldness! She's managed to get through my firewalls with a message. 'Still got some of your stuff here (at home) let me know what you want doing with it or I'm taking it to tip'!

How does she keep getting through to you? What do you need to do to stop this contact?

Second message came through. Tv/internet bill in my name but being paid through her account. She needs to cancel this as she has just lost her job. I cracked and went to see her! Another friend was there also so I was not alone with her too long.
I dont know what I was thinking going but the heart ruled the head.
What came out of conversation was this. I asked her to message me what she wanted(unblocked on FB).
She will ring company about bill and let me know if I need to cancel. Also when I left I placed marital rights on the home and she still wants a divorce. Im not sure what I want. Now during the time of me leaving she was trying to refinance the house. Mortgage and deeds in her name. By establishing my rights this was not allowed to proceed. The refinance was to pay off a loan to her Mother we used to purchase the house. Now she is stuck with the bills the old mortgage and no job. She is confident she can get by. Her mother may help in the short term until she gets a job. In terms of the house she wants to know if I am prepared to lift my claim, do I want money from house or not!
Basically she wants a quick and easy divorce. If I lift my claim (and I said to her again as has always been the case, its not about the money) she can then refinance. This does leave it open for her to refinance with OM or anyone she chooses.
Financially I have the upper hand! Selling the house in divorce would not get much out of it.
My questions?
Where would she get money to buy me off? Possibly another loan from Mother or could be tied up legally in divorce and next refinance if she gets a job!
My emotions were quite calm as I prepared myself for visit. I did not feel any malice towards her, neither did I feel undulating love. So what next? She knows my financial situation is not great but did sound me out about savings (spent) credit (growing). But Im still in a position to cover mortgage each month (dont worry Im not going to)!
This is the part where I leave her to deal with it and let OM help her out. But how do I let her know that without busting her?
Now I see why I should of stayed NC

Basically she is still in A. Wants divorce. Lost job. Can't do anything with house with my claim on it. I need to drag my heels over any decision. I should still be in B. I'm not thinking clearly.
Must remember she's still in fog of A. She's the only one to use the D word.
She never mentioned or did I OM. Even though I know she has introduced him to family and moved herself on.

I'm also feel she was sounding out my financials in prep for divorce. Which should be no concern as full financial disclosure can be requested.
I'm just very confused. Is she seeing how much she's likely to lose with regards to house. Am I considering agreeing so soon?
I still wonder that I didn't plan A enough. Would I wonder if I gave up too soon now?
I left most of my old stuff there and only took a prayer book that has been in the family since 1858. Now I've not been one for praying much but feel I should make one on making the right choices now.
If there's anything I've learnt so far, it is to do things slowly and not react

Another post to clear my mind and remember my thoughts.
First thing I did before going to see her was to shower, clean my teeth and make myself look good. That was my first thought, look good for her!
Do I want to give up or do I want to try and recover this?
Easy option agree quick divorce, recover later and wonder if I could of tried harder.
Hard option, drag this out. Could cause resentment. Could put pressure on A. Could deepen A.

Option for now try and switch off watch a film, nothing will happen in the meantime

One thing did happen. I realised I am weak. She suckered me in

She keeps getting through because I keep letting her. Only through FB and this I can rectify with one click. With regards to lost job and financials she said she can manage. So I should let her. Bill in my name I can sort. I forgot plan B is more about protecting me mentally. She said I hope we can be friends again one day!
Can I successfully restart plan B?

Gaslighting? Using jobloss/financial uncertainty to get me to lift my right.
Mortgage in her name only I am not responsible for any defaults!

Your in plan Bluebeck, continued UNECESSARY contact isn't Plan B do you have an IM? That's what he is for!

Yes not thinking. Reacting not taking time to think things through! Lucky no work tomorrow/today can't sleep. However one thought may help me. With my right on property claimed she can't transfer deed or refinance. Neither can she refinance without a job. Although could be pressured into being the bad person forcing sale of house if she pursues divorce. I can't be pressured into that. It is possible I can be awarded my 'claim' at a later date.
I should worry about this as and when.
For now reiterate plan B through IM?

I encourage you to pray and attend a church this weekend.

EDIT: There is a Prayer Request thread near the bottom with daily Devotionals posted also

Just delete your Facebook account. You can survive without Facebook. mankind survived for 15,000 years without it so you can manage for a few months.

You really need to enter Plan B.

Went round yesterday to tie up loose ends! First thing asked is can I fix toilet? Needs replacing I told her. Oh great she says and I have no money. Left that one, not my problem. Gathered my last few bits. Shared purchases/house stuff she asked about what I wanted. I told her I would leave them for her to decide. She commented that I only took a few items and I mentioned Im not really that materialistic. She knows its not about the money for me. Things still pleasant, she did still say we are not getting back together and I need to let her know about house claim. With no job I reminded that time is on our side. We did have lunch and pleasant conversation about family and friends and I showed concern about her while avoiding talk of OM and our relationship etc. She knows I still care. Left with a hug and peck on cheek.
Later messaged her to say I had sorted last bill and gave her last payment dates.
Message back this morning asking who is going to pay this, is it coming out of her bank account. I replied yes. Then I deactivated Facebook. Other than physically coming to find me I believe that should be the last communication gap closed!
Yes it all feels counterintuitive. I still care for her and feel guilty for abandoning her while she has no job. But I also know she would of been able to play me silly. I would of caved eventually and bailed her out. Not my problem.
It was a mistake rushing round although I didnt fall at her feet!
I know from this I am stronger than I was but not strong enough yet.
I nearly sent another, adapted plan B letter but thought better of it. she knows what is required.
So anyone want to run a book on how long I last this time?

You need to be in plan A or Plan B.
You are not in either

She was fishing for my new phone number yesterday which I didn't give and I also told her I was coming off of Facebook. Other than physically tracking me down the only contact she can have is through IM.
So effectively I am starting plan B again.
Another letter I thought would be overkill as she already knows the idea by testing and by me breaking my resolve

Sir, you have never been in Plan B! You keep contacting her and I dont understand why you went to the apartment to see her.

She is used to walking all over you and apparently you invite that treatment

I certainly am a glutton for punishment. I hope now I have cut off all routes of contact. I can only try again. What more can I do?

Have you watched Star Wars: Return of the Jedi?
In it, the great Jedi Master Yoda says: "Try? There is no try. Do or do not do. There is no try."

Wise words.
I also like the one about fear. I've been spending too much time worrying about what other people think and second guessing what she is doing in fear of what is next. I've not been looking at what I've been doing.

How is you staying away from alcohol doing?

Booze has been the easiest of my addictions to give up. At the start of all this it was the first thing to change. With my emotions all over the place I know drinking will do more damage.
This went hand in hand with wanting to get in shape. To show that I can change. At first I admit in an attempt to win back my WS but more so now for myself. It's a focus. I'm even checking my diet as the weight was flying off and not just through exercise. I get strangely anxious if I have not been for a run in a while!!!
Guess I've swapped one addiction for another!
Exercise does help with the depression. Along with a little home weight training I feel in good shape working towards great! Still a bit of work to do elsewhere.

Booze has been the easiest of my addictions to give up. At the start of all this it was the first thing to change. With my emotions all over the place I know drinking will do more damage.
This went hand in hand with wanting to get in shape. To show that I can change. At first I admit in an attempt to win back my WS but more so now for myself. It's a focus. I'm even checking my diet as the weight was flying off and not just through exercise. I get strangely anxious if I have not been for a run in a while!!!
Guess I've swapped one addiction for another!
Exercise does help with the depression. Along with a little home weight training I feel in good shape working towards great! Still a bit of work to do elsewhere.

Are you in AA? Do you have a sponsor?

No not in AA. Never seen it as a problem. Always been able to refuse a drink when I want to. I don't want to drink. I find it hard sometimes to focus as it is right now without the fug of booze.

Are you in Plan B now? You can do this!

Yes plan B. Doing it

Great news bluebeck. You are doing the right thing. Are you still running?

Stopped for a sit down and a cup of tea!
Yes still running at least 3 times a week. Keep getting plagued by niggling little injuries so have to take it easy while they heal but then will power on!

Sounds like you are in a calmer state now. It will get easier.

I have started to actually accept the situation I am in.
I have tied up all the loose ends. WW has ball firmly in her court while I'm eating grapes. I could see things are taking there toll on her the other day even though she wont admit it. But I realise at this point thats not my problem.
My problem is not spending the money I was using for bills when there. I've had a splurge, new clothes, a holiday and basically just treating myself. Need to save that money for MY future!

More positive stuff. Managed to beat a personnel target and run 7 miles under an hour! Read this as an analogy if you want but now its time to work on the distance.
Music helps. My playlist for running is a lot of dance mixes and fast beat tracks with the odd regular song thrown in. So it made me smile when the four tops belted out during the middle of my run. Got to surprise yourself sometimes! Could not even remember them being on my music manager.
Also music helps the mood. Woke this morning with that pit in my stomach and a sulk building in my head. Driving to work, radio on. Some songs do not help whatever but you can always change the station......

Oh and the song this morning. Pink-Try

Dont want to hijack another thread but reading another lead to this thought.
Plan B you either do it or you dont, simple. Do it right or do not expect to see any benefit one way or another.
My first attempt(if you can call it that) was ended by me contacting WW and even taking her to lunch! It was during that lunch she commented on my attempt at NC. Jokingly she said 'hows that working out for you'?
That comment and the smile she gave with it reminded me that if I let her she will be getting me running all the time. Having her cake. In her mind give it a couple of weeks and I will be finding excuses to contact her.
Well thats what she thinks anyway. I have none of the complications of other posters here but theres always someone ready with advice when a problem occurs.
I think what I am trying to say is if you are in or going to attempt plan B look back at what Jedi told me quite simply there is no try only do or do not.

I listened to Bruce Sprngsteen songs during recent races

That gives me an idea to create new playlists. I enjoy my running it's becoming routine. But like everything right now sometimes it's hard getting going.
Might as well change it up a little.

Days off can be a drag. At least I don't have to clean the house! Drag is what I must do. Drag myself out for a late breakfast. Need some photos done for driving license then I have nothing attached to old address! Must keep busy or the mind will make mischief!

Strange one. Any tips for keeping the weight on?

Had an email reminder that house insurance not been paid and if not sorted will be cancelled. Not my problem right? Same as utility bills. Let her sort it out, no need for an unnecessary message (through IM) to remind her?

Why? Are you loosing weight too fast?

I dont know how you should act on the utility and house insurance while In plan B.
Others more qualified can answer that question

Weight maintaining 145 pounds and I'm 5ft 9 which I know is healthy just not used to looking so skinny!
House insurance I can cancel so it doesn't affect my credit history. There will be reminder letters with companies logo on so if she doesn't realise from those well again that's her problem.
Better now for a run, I was getting 'twitchy' earlier wanting to know what's going on with her! I've said it before and will remind myself this is a marathon not a sprint! My running is getting easier, so will this .

I was hoping some others would respond to your question.
In your case, I suggest you email Dr. Harley directly (mbradio@marriagebuilders.com) regarding the house insurance.

Basically, your question is Do you step away from all house obligations while in Plan B (and while wife is living in house carrying on affair).

Dont let the house insurance drop without first consulting Dr. Harley.

In Plan B, you remove yourself to protect against her abusing you by carrying on an affair but the door is left open if she ends the affair and agrees to recovery.

You want to be removed, but you dont want to commit love busters while removed.

So please email Dr. Harley directly for instruction.

Hang in there bluebeck. I wouldn't know about the house insurance question.

Jedi do you think bluebeck could give the insurance company her email and then the insurance company emails her the reminder directly?

Just a thought.

I need to speak to insurance company first policy due for renewal anyway. It's not mandatory to have but it is sensible.

The question is, does he just drop everything while in Plan B?
I dont know the answer to that.
I dont think Jon stopped all support when Sue had him kicked out of the house.
That's why I suggested emailing Dr. Harley for instruction.

Good idea Jedi! Bluebeck are you going to do that?

Last week when I met with WW finances were discussed. We both have separate accounts as well as a joint account. When I left I cancelled all payments from joint account (which is now empty) and left instructions with my PBL about which bills she would now be responsible for. This included Home Insurance. I have spoken to insurers and policy is all paid and ends in about a week. In said conversation of last week I remember I reminded her that she needed to arrange insurance cover. She acknowledged this.
I also remember before leaving her using the fact of having mortgage in her name as weight to many of her arguments.
She is not financially dense.
Last weeks contact was due to her losing her job and tying up loose financial ends. I had already passed everything else over before and she was happy with that. In this situation I dont feel I am dropping anything but letting her deal with her choices.
It is unfortunate that she lost her job but she will find work. She clearly intimated that she didnt want my support financially and has friends/family who can help in the meantime. However she will not be able to live the lifestyle she is accustomed to and OM will struggle to meet this and her ENs.

Sir, everything that you wrote is in YOUR plan, NOT Dr. Harley's.
IF you are serious about any chance of marital recovery you will need to email him for guidance.
Plan B is a specific plan.

Typing as you read!

Nothing to update on the home front yet, just wanted to post about me. Feeling positive right now, maybe because I've just done a 10 mile run in 1hour 28 mins. Not bad if I say so myself after a couple of months. Been able to occupy my time calorie counting to ensure I keep a good weight and researching those feel good foods. Realising Plan B is not an overnight job is also teaching me patience and that sometimes problems can't be solved right away and require a little thought. Also it's presented me with the opportunity to do things I've always talked about doing but never bothered to do. Getting in shape and saving money for starters. May have to start listing new things, kind of a long term bucket list!

At your weight, I would not calorie count.
Instead, I would focus on nutrition: eating lots of natural foods (plant based, meat etc)
NO junk foods, minimal processed foods.

It's a slow learn but when you start looking you start seeing!

How's the Plan B going? You haven't updated for a few weeks.

Still the same roller coaster of emotions. Still no contact. Still confused on what direction my life is going but taking one day at a time. My birthday next week, could present some triggers (or not). Trying to stay positive then my car blows up!
Still life would be boring without challenges!

You should plan something nice for your birthday. Can you organise a dinner with your friends? Spoil yourself

Got some family time planned.
Sometimes on this roller coaster my head pops through the clouds and I see the strength I am building ( both physically and mentally). My WW no doubt expects me to be a drunken mess turning to the booze but I turned the other way. I also remember this is for me and whatever happens, reconciliation, eternal plan B or something in the middle (once A ends) I'm going to need all the strength I can build as it's going to be hard work.
I still feel I am in limbo so best make use of this time

Keep us the exercise and positive thinking. I sent my ExWW a link to the song "I Won't Give Up on You," about 8 months into her affair. She still remembers it.

Keep throwing her off balance with love bank deposits, but focus on things that make you healthy, strong and happy.

God bless.

Thanks for your support but I'm in B the A I was referring to was hers!
I posted relevant songs to my FB page as I know she will check it out to see how I am. Deactivated that account a month ago as it was a route of contact. I really want to post 'jar of hearts' by Christina Perri but that's due to my shifting mood. Avoiding these little temptations makes me more resolute. Maybe I should try 'stronger' by Kelly Clarkson! All silliness aside my only weak point is mutual friends who try to tell me WW asks after me and still values our friendship. I have to bite my tongue as if she valued anything we had I wouldn't be posting here! That sense of bitterness plan B helps me overcome.
It's hard to shut these friends down completely as they have been of great support and actively try to give WW some direction towards clarity.
It's funny that this post started about songs and most days I hear one that triggers memories of WW. I try and use these triggers positively to lift my mood and keep myself cheerful, focus on myself and not worry what WW is doing.
A pause in posting also helps as I sometimes feel like a broken record.

You can't see where you're going if you're always looking behind you

Feeling weak. No I'm not. Frustrated help

And breathe and carry on!

DO NOT CONTACT HER! Stick with Plan B! Your better than this. When I have feelings of wanting to contact my WW I go exercise or do something fun with my son. Have you read all Dr. Harley's books? Sometimes reading helps me as well.

Kept myself busy, slept got up and tried again. No contact made just a bump in the road

Plan B should be dark but dont take the word dark literally. I have reconnected with family and loved ones I have ignored for years(ironically people ww said talk to). not just famuly old friends and new friends. WW has found me and put a lot on my table but i can deal with it myself. I can deal with it better with family/friends.

What do you mean she found you?
Have you been in contact with her?

She has managed to get my new number and text me a guilt trip of monetary demands. Claims she is struggling, which she will be if she maintains current lifestyle.
I have managed to ignore this(and block her number). I did ask friends for further info, seems she's ok financially and it's just the stress of running a house alone is getting to her. Nothing I can help with as it's still all my fault! However my LB severely depleted and I need to keep a level head

Death and funerals while in plan b. Any advice?

You need to ask a proper question to get advice!

What do you mean? What has happened, and what do you want to know?

You don't have to go to a funeral. Do not go if you know or strongly suspect she will be there. You can visit the grave or pay your respects at any other time.

It sounds to me as if you are looking for an excuse for contact.

Plan B means Plan B and you haven't been in it.

What happened when you wrote to Dr Harley?

How did she get your new number? One doesn't stumble upon mobile phone numbers by accident.

Has she ever used your IM? You say next to nothing about your IM playing any role in this.

How is your asking friends for info compliant with Plan B?

In addition to SugarCane's questions read this.

Important/Special Events while in Plan B

I will look at link thanks. No response from Harley's but my question was hypothetical, WW not financially vulnerable. I have a legal charge on house to protect my interest but also means she cannot refinance without my permission. WW was ranting if I want a share of house I should be sharing bills, while claiming I never contributed anyway!?! This is a job for solicitors anyway if needed.
IM been non existent as she has found ways through to me and I have let her. Plug one hole another appears. MIL had number in case of emergencies. I blocked WW number on I phone after message about finances.
However still received a voice mail asking me to call as she had some news to tell me. I know 2 uncles have been ill for a while and by her voice I had already guessed the news. But I called her anyway
It was grave news and the conversation focused on this and how family were coping. Funeral arrangements to be confirmed but I can pay my respects without being there.
I can see the mistakes but I still keep making them.
I'm still not getting it that plan b isn't about me hiding from her while still asking about her

This would be funny if the constant contact and excuses about contact were not in fact pathetic.

This makes no sense. Why did you ask Dr Harley a hypothetical question when you are in a real, non-hypothetical crisis? Are you seriously seeking help here? And if you did not get a response then for goodness sake write again. The Harleys seem to answer every question that gets through to them from this board.

What was the hypothetical question?

About the house: I haven't read every detail on this thread, but it seems that you are refusing to let her refinance just so that you can tick her off. Surely if she were able to refinance she would be able to pay the mortgage. Are you just trying to make her homeless by refusing to let her do that?

I might have misunderstood, so please tell me what your goal is in not letting her refinance.

The question was 'do I step away from all house obligations while in plan b' (referring to financial issues). For me this is hypothetical as when I left the marital home I ensured all household bills I was paying were transferred to ww who is financially sound. My worry was she would forget to renew house insurance. Which was probably me looking for an excuse for contact (fair points that you posted).
She does not need to refinance. She thought by having control of mortgage she would have control of home. We had the chance to refinance jointly but she refused. This was at the same time as wanting separation to continue her A in some sense of guiltlessness.
Charge protects both our interests without running up unnecessary debt.

You have a habit of writing such abbreviated sentences - almost in code - that I still have no idea what you are trying to tell me. I am still no nearer understanding what financial woe she writes to you about and what you are resisting doing.

All I can say is that if the goal of Plan A is to meet those needs she will let you meet and commit no love busters, then doing whatever needs to be done with the household insurance seems wise.

If you do not reconcile, at some point the house will be sold and you will get a fair share of the assets. You should pay the bills that you are responsible for, or if she has another man living there, you should get a court to remove you from that responsibility.

"The question was 'do I step away from all house obligations while in plan b' (referring to financial issues). For me this is hypothetical as when I left the marital home I ensured all household bills I was paying were transferred to ww who is financially sound."

The "hypothetical" part makes no sense to me at all, but I think this is an important REAL question and you should write again to get an answer from Dr H.

Basically I have stopped her from selling our house without my knowledge or consent.
There are no bills I am responsible for.
My concern was if she was unable to or forgot to pay the bills.
How would this affect me in plan b
I will send an email

Does she want to sell the house? Is that what she is asking for?

If not, what is she asking for? What was in the text that she sent recently?

Please try not to be so frustrating. You post here asking for help but then getting information from you is worse than pulling teeth. Are you here to get help, or just to blog?

If the uncle passed away, and you are in Plan B (which you really aren't...you're in your own Plan C at this point) then a polite action would be to send flowers and a condolence.

According to the Book of Etiquette, you would attend the funeral.

However, in Plan B you avoid contact.

Aside from the funeral, the bigger issue is that you keep having contact with her.
What do you want at this point?
Do you want to remain married to her if she agrees to end all of her affairs or just call it quits?

I frustrate myself!
What does she want to do with house? I don't know, I don't think she knows herself.
What was in text? To ask that I release charge so she has freedom with the property and deny me any and all claim.
What do I want? I would like to reconcile but keep doubting the reality of this. I keep doubting what I want, I suppose because I keep having contact.

Thank you for advice on funeral

Why are you making disrespectful judgements about her?

She stated very clearly what she wanted. She wanted you to release the charge on the house, so why are you saying you "don't think she knows herself"?

Now, I don't understand what a "charge on the house" actually means. I think I read that you are in the UK - is that true? I am too, but I have not heard about that particular aspect of home ownership. However, if I understand you correctly, you have moved out of the home and stopped paying any bills or maintaining your wife in any way, but you won't let her sell the home and give you your share, or refinance it, or whatever it is she wants to do. I still do not understand why you are acting this way. How is this designed to bring her back to the marriage, and if it isn't designed to do that, what is it designed to do?

If you are in the UK, do you realise that she can divorce you after two years for desertion, and she can divorce you in much less than two years for "unreasonable behaviour" - which can include not paying the household bills? And if she sues you for either of those reasons, a judge might well award her a bigger share of the assets because of your failure to pay your bills?

I am at a loss to understand what you have been trying to achieve since you came here. If I read this case correctly, you are in a relatively young marriage (how long?) and have no children. There is precious little pull on your wife to go back to the marriage she abandoned by having an affair. Dr Harley does not advise men to go to Plan B quickly, because, for a man, Plan B is more likely to lead to the end of the marriage, especially when there are no kids. You went to Plan B shortly after coming here, despite your radio programme with Dr Harley in which he advised you to stay in Plan A for as long as possible.

Having said that, you haven't been in Plan B EVER, and have only treated it lightheartedly. ("Oops: I slipped again. I messaged her on FB/called at the house/ took her to lunch/ went round to repair the washing machine/asked about her aged uncles....endlessly contacted her despite supposedly being in Plan B.")

You are not doing anything to save your marriage here. In fact I would say that what you are doing is more likely to end it, fast. And that might be no bad thing; at your age, and without any kids, why not cut your losses from this woman who does not seem to want you back, and start again, next time with MB wisdom under your belt?

But that is not my call to make. At this stage, you are saying you want to reconcile with your wife, and yet you are in a plan which is a mixture of "I'm not talking to you - oh wait, I don't really mean that" combined with "I'm going to really piss you off by controlling what you can do with the house I no longer live in or maintain".

Why, for heaven's sake?

Keep in mind, she may be having several affairs at once.
I personally would just call it quits and divorce; However that is a decision for you to make.

You chose to enter Plan B but have NOT done so!
Get with the program Sir!

Why were the house and mortgage registered to her name only? Married people don't do this.

Why did she pay the mortgage herself? Why weren't you paying a share?

The charge is registering marital rights on the home with the land registry. Shortly before leaving I took legal advice on the probable outcome if we were to pursue divorce. Apart from explaining the ways she can divorce me I was advised to assert these rights to protect my interest. Divorce would release these rights with a settlement.
Many of my WW decisions, including separation and offering me money to leave I believe are influenced by her affair. Also is her belief that I never contributed to the home because the mortgage came from her bank account. In leaving I gave her what she wanted and the knowledge I would not contribute to her affair.
I chose to enter plan b to save my sanity and the respect we once shared for each other. However my poor attempt is confusing me more.
If she wants divorce so badly then why has she not already done so?
She wants to retain my friendship but does not realise the damage she has done with the affair she doesn't even see as an affair.
And now my emotions are all mixed up with the sad news delivered and the decision to try and do the right thing and not make it about us.
Is doing nothing the best course of action.
It seems all I'm trying to achieve is getting her to admit she has done wrong

How do you think this will benefit your marital recovery?

Mortgage was firstly in her name as my credit was poor. We did remortgage together before buying current property. New purchase was subsidised by her mother and I was convinced not to be on mortgage this time to make things simpler. So we used my credit for holidays and general good lifestyle. The opportunity to remortgage together and pay back MIL presented itself as affair started ( before I found out about affair) but ww was unwilling to consider it.
Our expenditures have always been shared but because the mortgage was in her name and coming out of her account( not the joint account) she has been able to feel more comfortable in her financial security.
I said before my credit was once poor, this was due to my own financial ineptitude and I don't think she has ever trusted me with money

Why wasn't this done when you first bought the home?

The normal arrangement is for married couples to register the house in both names. Lawyers make sure this is done. What would have happened if she had died and you had no legal right to this home? This is unbelievable!

Please explain why this happened.

It seems all I'm trying to do is get her to admit she is wrong.
This is not my intention but it feels that's all I'm doing

Did she have any say in this? Did she have the right to object to it?