Sorry this is so long. My husband and I have been married for six years. We have had our share of problems and struggles, but we have always been very close.

He deployed to Iraq for a year and in the midst of it we were buying our first home. We were both so excited.

At first the deployment seemed to bring us closer. We would call each other and email many times a day. I'd send care packages and he told me that he was going to make me his priority, which made me very happy because I had always felt like I wasn't on the top of his list.

Then, the day our home sale closed; I was so excited, then he emailed apologising for accidently sending me the email about the girl and said it was just guy talk. I read the email, it was between he and a friend stateside. He was talking about how he wanted to have sex and more with a woman he worked with here and how he loved women; except maybe for wives, and how I was little or no effort on his part. It hurt me a lot. I wrote back saying that I felt it wasn't just guy talk and it was hurtful. He became angry and sent me a bunch of mean emails saying it was no big deal and that I needed professional help because I was upset. I stopped reading the emails until the next day and his demeanor totally changed,he sent tons of emails saying he apologised, told me how much he loves me and that he didn't want any woman but me.

I forgave him but still felt very hurt and angry for a while. He had chested on me three years prior with his ex-wife on our Anniversary, so it was difficult to forgive again.

A few weeks later he came home for leave. Because I was still very upset and didn't want to have an angry outburst, and also because I wanted him to make an effort, I distanced myself a bit. I didn't spend all my time with him, I'd go to the spa with friends or take his daugther shopping. I was looking very good because I had been focusing more on caring for myself. He noticed and like it, but once he went back to Iraq all the guys there convinced him I was cheating because I looked so good. I wasn't and never have. I really love him so much.

It made me so sad that he thought I was cheating, I knew he was hurting and feeling very helpless over there. All my anger and hurt went away, and I decided to do whatever it took to repair our marriage. We began emailing each other much more and the emails were very sweet and loving. Then he was to come home for his next leave. I was so excited; so was my son, we welcomed him home. I was a bit sad though because he was only going to be home for two days and then was to fly to his hometown for an old childhood friend's wedding. During the two days we worked on installing insullation under our home; we had to because winter was coming, so there wasn't a whole lot of recreation time.

He went to the wedding and came back home, but the next day he had received a call saying his dad was in the hospital, so he made plans to fly back. He had also expressed his fears about going back to Iraq, he thought he was going to die. He felt he had to go back so that we could finish paying off our debts. He was angry because he wished I had paid the debts first. I tried to explain that there are many costs associated with purchasing the home and that I had indeed paid of many of our other debts, but he was still angry. I suggested that he not go back and that I get a job (I'm a full time student in my senior year). He thought that could be a solution, but hadn't made a decision.

He left to go see his dad for a week. He called me every day, at least at first. He told me he was staying at his mom's house. I called there on the third day and his stepdad said he had never stayed there and hadn't even seen him. I called to see if he was staying with his dad or brother, but he wasn't. When he called again I asked him where he was staying; at first he said his mom's, but then he admitted he was staying with his guy friend whose wedding he had gone to. He said he had lied because he thought I'd be upset. On the previous trip he hadn't seen any of his family and then felt guilty when his dad got sick, so I encouraged him to spend as much time with family as possible. I asked him if he could call me from his friends' house, but he said that his friend wouldn't let him use the phone. I found that kind of weird. I was beginning to panic. It seemed all he did was lie, which was weird because he had never lied before; even when he had cheated he came straight out and told me.

Still, I wanted to do all I could. Since I wasn't sure if he was going back to Iraq, and if he did he would miss Christmas, Thanksgiving, our Anniversary, and all our birthdays, I set up the Christmas tree, prepared Thanksgiving dinner, and got birthday and anniversary gifts ready so we could celebrate early.

The day came to pick him up from the airport, but I got a message saying he missed his flight and that all the tickets were really expensive. He said he'd stay in a hotel and the next day I could check online to try to find something cheaper. The next day I received a message saying that he got a ticket (weird because it never showed up on our bank account), that I didn't need to pick him up, that he wasn't going back to Iraq, and that we were getting a divorce. He was gone for about a week to who knows where, he made no purchses on our account, and I didn't hear anything from him for two weeks.

I got divorce papers on our anniversary. I hadn't seen him for two months (he said it would be too painful, he also said he was said but felt he had no choice). The other day I finally saw him at divorce mediation. He looked very sad, he kept staring at me and tears kept welling in his eyes. He is pretty much giving me everything and paying all my bills for a year so that I can finish school. The mediator said he had never seen two people in mediation respect and care for each other more.

This site is amazing and I've been doing all I can to follow the concepts. I have recognized things I had been doing wrong from reading the concepts, it's just so hard to implement them with no contact at all, except email and occasional phone. He had been totally shut down. He still doesn't want to talk about us really, but he's talking a little. He says he wants me to be happy, he said he tried but couldn't make me happy. He swears there is noone else, but I'm not sure about that. I'm pretty sure something happened the week he went MIA. I'll have to sign the papers in a week or two. I just feel so helpless. Our kids are hurting so much too. Any suggestions? Is there any hope at all?

Hang in there we are coming into the weekend and it can get slow on the boards here.

My thought is that he has had an A or maybe you put that he did, but any way he must have some serious guilt or some major PTSD.

The vets will be on here to help, so keep checking back in.

Thanks, I will!

I guess there isn't but I still can't give up until it's over!

I guess there isn't but I still can't give up until it's over!

Expects,

For me, my journey there is ALWAYS hope. You have to be willing to read, learn and work the plans. Go outside your comfort zone and do things that might scare you or be contradictory to what you know.

I would be searching for any clues to see if there WAS an A. All along learning about how to expose.

What state are you in that a D can move so fast? Can you stall the D? Do you have children?

Him being away, does he have emotional challenges from his tour of duties?

I'm glad there is hope, I'm so devastated. I'm in Cali, so it's a "no fault" state. I'm pretty sure he at least cheated because he told his daughter that she can't spy for me;I'd never ask, but she wouldn't speak to him for a month, she's so hurt and angry. She says that he is the person that "looks like her dad" but isn't. It's so sad.

I do think that his deployment messed him up; his recollection of prior events is skewed to say the least, if not outright false. For example, when he came home in the summer, we rented a SeaDoo and all went out to the lake. I was the first one on it; I went by myself, took each of our children out, and at one point could't figure out why it wouldn't go faster; it would only go 30 mph. So I looked in the compartment and found another key which made it go faster, so I think the key that was in it was a child key. I spent about 2 hours on the lake, but it was cold. So, I let my husband have a turn and tried to warm up on the beach. But the next time he came home he swore I never went on the SeaDoo at all. Weird?

Yes we have two kids; he has a daughter from his first marriage. It took so long for us to bond, but we love each other so much now. I have a son from a prior relationship; he never met his natural father, so my husband is the only dad he has even known, there was even talk of adoption.

My husband was supposed to come by tommorrow to get some things. But he came by unexpectedly this morning asking if my son could go with him to pick up a new bed for his new place. I woke my son up and told him what he wanted, my son got dressed and went outside; he's ten kinda going on thirty, I encouraged my son to spend time with him because he has missed him so much and also had waited anxiously for him while he was in Iraq. I thought he was going to go, but the last thing my son said before shutting the door was, "It'll take a lot more than that to get me back!". M<y husband said, "I'll keep trying". My husband came back to the door and asked me for a tool; I got it for him and was kind. My son cried for about an hour after that. This stinks!

Any advice would be helpful...

Expectsamiracle,

I am sorry you are in this situation. It truly stinks. however, there is plenty of good advice from lots of people who have been through the same experience.

Do you know much about your H's deployment? Is there a chance he could have PTSD or a TBI? My H came home from Iraq for R&R and we went on a 4 day ski trip that even now he cannot recall. My H also had other memory problems - forgetting what day he had a plane ticket and going to the airport on the wrong day, forgetting that he already had bought a plane ticket and purchased another one, etc.

Have you snooped (checked phone records, computer emails, etc) to see if he is currently involved in an affair?

Best wishes to you.

AM

He told me that when he was helo-ing out for his summer leave that he saw a rocket tracer barely miss the helo. He said he saw Iraqis get killed in front of him and it didn't bother him as much as he thought it should have.

My husband was enlisted in the Navy and the Marine Corps. and served in Desert Storm, and that didn't mess him up. This time he was over there as an Army civilian employee. He worked for environmental, but had to go out on the convoys to inspect the outposts and other bases. He usually went out about one week a month, but was scared to go back because a new commander was put in charge and she had ordered him out three weeks a month. He told me that they could only travel at night, because of the rocket attacks on the convoys. He was certain that he'd die if he went back. My friends' husband had gone before him in the same fashion, and actually enjoyed it, it made thier marriage stronger. Except his job allowed him to stay on base. Had I known this would happen, I'd had done all I could to deter his deployment.

He has a new cell phone, so I can't track his calls. He has changed all the password on our bank accounts, except for one which is the one I use and he doesn't use it.

I realize after reading the material on this site that I have made many fundamental mistakes that have contributed to ending our marriage, but I wonder if maybe...because he was so scared to go back, that he used me as an excuse, instead of telling his friends and coworkers he was afraid. He has said over and over that he is sad and doesn't really want to do this, but feels he has no choice.

He is coming by tomorrow morning to get our dog and some other things. I'm not sure how to handle it...Any suggestions?

Please, can someone help? Plan A? Or fill the love bank and work the basic concepts?

EaM, I am sorry you're going through this. I really am. It's late on a weekend night, so the veterans may not be here until later. The advice I'm going to give you is so basic that it may be next to worthless. Well, it's free, so you get what you pay for.

My suggestion, and this will only work if you're up for it, is to be the wife your husband fell in love with and wanted to marry. This means NOT bringing up the subject of his leaving, NOT begging, whining or crying, and NOT mentioning HIS behavior.

What you should do is be loving, but resolute. Tell him that you want to work on saving the marriage. That he is not walking out on you with your permission. Be kind, and do not "love bust." Do not issue disrespectful judgments (DJ), angry outbursts (AO) or selfish demands (SD). Instead, tell him that you love him, that you want the marriage to succeed and that you want the TWO OF YOU to work together on this.

But do not expect any of your words to have an effect. Expect your husband to belittle you, to tell you he does not love you any more, has never loved you, and all of the rest of the tripe that wayward spouses (WS) read from the same (very badly written) script. He will not want to hear what you say, because he would rather you be angry, cry and otherwise validate his expectation that he is doing the right thing.

If you can, click on the links to the right and read Love Busters, the EN Questionnaire, and if you haven't already, start with "Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts."

Good luck. Be strong. It will be horribly tough. Maybe the hardest thing you've ever done. But if you do it, you will be on your way to saving your marriage.

Thank you Fred! I will take your advice.

I think that his emotional needs that I wasn't satisfying were the recreation and the sexual; likely his two most important.

I always felt like he piled so much on me and that even if I'd do 1000 things in the day, he'd pick the one thing I missed and criticize me for it. I'd try harder and we'd both be more frustrated. He'd ask me to go do something with him, but I'd feel like if I did then he would be even more critical of the chores I missed.

I now realize that if I had just stopped and spent time with him doing recreation, then he'd have likely helped me more.

As for the sex; oh man! We had the best sex in the beginning, but it went downhill. He did a lot of things that resulted in feelings of inadequacy and inferiority on my part. He felt like i thought sex was a chore. It wasn't, but I always felt he was thinking of someone else. It's weird too because I've never had complaints before and have always been confident in my body and abilities.

Well, he came and got the dog and two of our cats. I packed him a big box of canned food and included a card and some candies.

My son told him he wanted to spend the day with him, so he is, but my husband griped at me about it saying that he wished he'd have known. I remained calm and kind.

My son got into his truck while my husband was in the back yeard getting the dog. My son found a hair tie laying on the seat. When my husband came back, my son asked him about it and he said it must be mine or his daughters and that no woman was in the truck. I had put some things in his truck a few weeks ago and there was no hair tie on the seat and it didn't look like one of ours. But, I didn't say anything.

It was at this point that my husband started getting really pissy and yelled at my son a number of times for little things.

I'm just feeling lost as to what to do next...

Okay, well obviously there is no hope for my marriage. I won't ask for help any longer.

Buy a copy of "Surviving An Affair" as soon as you can. Best $10 you can possibly spend right now. It will become clear what you should do if you wish to save your marriage. Realize, though, saving a marriage isn't entirely in your control. You can lead your spouse back, but they have to choose to engage at some point. You can't give and give without ever receiving.

Why are you saying this? Did something happen?

If you're saying that because you feel like no one is responding to you, most people don't come on during the weekends, as they're off doing family stuff.

So I read your thread, and my first question is, is he leaving you AND his daughter? He's leaving her with you? I'm confused.

As for your marriage, if you want to save it, you will have to hire a PI and track down his activities, to see who he has cheated with. Once you know that, you will have to expose his activities to his family, your friends, his friends, and the other woman's (women's) family, to try to get him to stop the affair(s).

His family is furious. They know he is with someone else. They know how long I waited for him. His daughter; last time I spoke with her at least, was furious; I'm not sure what happened with that, but he told her she can't speak to me.

I've just been trying my best to be he best wife possible. I think what was missing for him was the recreation and the sexual fulfillment, but with no contact and him likely with someone else, how do I improve on those things? He's almost totally closed off and if I even bring up "us" he totally shuts down.

I really just don't know what to do...I'm ordering the book now, but I only have a week or so until I have to sign divorce agreements; I'm really desperate. So if anyone can give me a hint as to what is the next move I would be forever grateful.

We are trying to tell you what to do. You find out who he is having an affair with, you get contact information for her family, and you sit down and make phone calls all in one afternoon - to HIS family members, his best friends, his pastor/priest, his work (if they are working together), HER family members. You tell ALL of them that they are having an affair, and you need their help stopping it so you can save your marriage.

You do this because affairs are only fun IF they are sneaky. Once you shine light on them, the affair will probably stop, and you may have a chance to restore your marriage.

I do appreciate your advice. I have been trying to find out who she is for two months now.

His family knows he's cheating and they are all furious with him. His mom told me that she thinks it someone from his hometown (which is in the Midwest). I'm on the west coast, so it makes it harder to find out. He has changed all our account passwords, he deleted his facebook account. I can't try to get on his email because it govt. and the passwords are complex and change often.

My husband did admit to me that he had lunch with an old friend while he was in the Midwest, he told me his brother wanted to beat him up for it.

His friends that know me are in shock and can't believe it. His friends that don't know me are supporting him; he must have said some really bad things about me to them. Most of the people at his work are supporting him; same thing he must've said some bad things.

I really think that he was afraid to admit to his guy friends, coworkers, and commanders that he was afraid to go back to Iraq, so he made up some bad stuff about me as an excuse. I'm not saying I didn't make mistakes in out marriage, but I think he probably made stuff up too. So, I think his friends are all feeling so sorry for him. I think they all encouraged him to geta divorce and probably to go cheat. It is hard because I really don't know anything for sure.

He already got a new place to rent. He told me yesterday that his friends have been donating furniture and other household items to him. He tells me in emails how all he eats is canned ravioli. We had a substantial savings which he transferred into a new bank account. I know that he traveled to the midwest the first two times, but believe he went two or three more times after(that makes 5 times in the last two months); just from what his family says. His family says they hardly saw him because the second they would bring up "us", he would walk out the door and leave. He probably really "lived it up" for a while and then used the rest of the money to hire his attorney

He also told me he is trying to get a job in the Midwest.He's on the west coast now. I could find him, but feel like the OW is not here, so it wouldn't help much to spy on him here.

Any avenues of spy work I'm missing?

Yeah! Hire a PI! Isn't it worth $300 to save your marriage? Or at least your savings account that he stole from you?

Yeah, it's worth it! Would you suggest a PI here on the west coast or one in the MidWest?

I only have a few days before I have to sign the divorce agreement, I'm hoping that is enough time to expose it.

He really wants the divorce to be as fast as possible. It just blows my mind because only a few months ago before he went to the MidWest and never returned, he professed his undying love for me.

You don't have to agree to the divorce.

I would visit a lawyer though to get your money back.

You do not have to sign any divorce agreement. You get yourself a lawyer and set him on your WH to get the savings money back and to stall the divorce.

I tried that. I live in Cali, it's a "no fault" state. I thought I could petition the court to have him pay my attorney fees since he took all the money. I have a good friend who works at the courthouse and she referred me to the best attorney in our county. He told me that the court rarely awards that, and that even if they did no attorney would accept it without a retainer. My husband's attorney is "green" only two years out of law school and her retainer is $4000.

I also found out that he does still have his facebook account, he just blocked me and made himself invisible. I went onto my notifications today and he had the nerve to use one of the pictures I had as his profile pic. I asked him about it and he said he had cancelled the account, but had gone on it for a few minutes last night to see if it still worked. EXCEPT, my facebook account had said he downloaded the pic this morning. He first played dumb and then admitted it, but told me he had forgotten. UGH! Lies, lies, and more stupid lies.

Also, I think his lawyer suggested the mediation we went to, I think she's aware of how illegal the hiding of money is. He gave me everything (probably so he has less to move to the Midwest). He's paying off all the remaining bills except my student loans. He's paying off my car and signing it over to me. He's paying all the bills for a year plus giving me alimony. We are selling the house and I get half the profit. I think he figures he can suffer for a year and then go be with the OW.

Now he's telling everyone that we are getting divorced because I have been cheating on HIM?

While in Iraq he accidently sent me an email in which he was talking about how he wanted to have sex with a woman he worked with and how I was little or no effort on his part. When I became upset, he became angry and said I needed counseling for being upset about that.

After lots of mean emails, I decided to exit the situation and I took my son and his friend to the pizza place. They played in the arcade and I ran into some family friends; our families spend every holiday together. One was married and going through something very similar as I and the other was his wife's brother who was going through a break up with his girlfriend.

We all decided to hang out together. I felt safe because they were like family. We went and played pool and then went to the casino to dance. I danced with them both and they both danced with other women, but at the end of the night I could tell the married one was going to hit on me; which was weird because my husband had always said he liked me, but I thought it ridiculous. And yep, he did hit on me, but i told him that although I was angry with my husband, I could never do that.

I avoided him since. He texted me while my husband was at the wedding saying that he and his wife broke up and that he wanted to see me. I said no. It was about four days later and after my husband didn't come home and told me he wanted a divorce, that I texted him telling him how devastating it is, and urged him to keep trying. I had bought the book, "The Love Dare" to attempt to save my marriage and dropped it on his mom's porch for him to pick up.

I'd periodically text to see how it was going, and it was going well mostly, but his wife was kind of off and on. She leave and then come back. Every time she left, he'd text and ask me to meet. I always said no, even after I got my divorce papers and he told me they were really over over. Well he told his wife that we had gone dancing, so I told my husband. But apparently someone? told my husband we really had done something which isn't true. So, now he's telling everyone that is the reason for the divorce, even though he filed before i had told him.

I just called his parents to let them know that what he was saying is absolutely not true. They said that they knew for sure that I had never done that and that they knew that he had been "shacking up" with someone in his hometown since he had returned from Iraq and also that he had been cheating on me our whole marriage, more than just the one time I knew about.

I wonder if he is trying to justify his behavoir and making an easy entrance for the OW to come out into the open?

Also, he asked to use my wireless internet card; he is paying the bill. I know he's using it to Facebook the OW, should I shut it off? He is here on the west coast and she is in the midwest.

Any advice helpful..

Should I shut the wireless internet card off or not? He's got Skype, so I can only imagine what they are doing on there...

Just so everyone knows, I have never cheated on my current husband or my former husband, nor any boyfriend in my whole life.

Texting my friend may be considered emootional cheating, and I do feel guilty for it. But it makes it harder to feel guilty when my husband has been cheating our entire marriage and said he never loved me, not ever. It hurts.

I'm really just not sure what to do about the wireless card. Let them talk? Turn it off?

I don't have physical proof he cheated, but I know he did. I have told as many family and riends as I know the truth, at least about my side. All that know me are supportive. Do I just go to plan B? I'll get my divorce agreement in a few days if not today. I feel there is no time left.

Should I just try and let it go? I love him still. I've been in so much agony for two and a half months.

Expects, I don't know your sitch and I'm going to try and get my laptop so I can read, but I just wanted to give you a hug.

I remember my first holiday time and I just stayed on here and people who cared came and sat with me.

Awwww! Loves to you Queenies! I was about ready to throw in the towel! Thank you!

Don't ever throw in the towel, unless you are really really ready...

I'm not, But what do you think about the wireless card? Should I keep it on so he and the OW can do whatever they do, or shut it off?

You are fighting a war. Marriages can stand anger, they can't stand A. I would do anything to block them. It sends the message that one, you are fighting for your M, and 2, that you will NOT enable them to be together.

H and I are on our way out the door for an AA meeting. I'm on the west coast and WILL be back to talk more to you. Keep reading on here, breathe, in fact, read my thread, specifically read the parts that Mimi wrote me. I went back over them today and I forgot how valuable her information was on understanding how much I could do and how G-d was on my side.

Hugs to you and see you in about 2 hours or so. I will be back..

Okay and thak you! But it's so much worse than just the divorce. I don't even know if I can post it because it is so bad. I'm so sad.

There is always hope and you are very new here. Please, please protect your finances. That is crucial. Hubby is having an affair, so he won't be himself. You can't count on him for ANYTHING. And I hope you won't just sign off on a divorce that you don't want.

EaM, I'm with Queenie: You're fighting a war to save your marriage. When I came here and the veterans started giving me advice, it all seemed so... wrong, at first. It seemed to go against things "proper" and "dignified."

But they were right. A lot of the things our wayward spouses (WS) say is simply not true. It's just lies to assuage their own guilty feelings over what they've done. Of COURSE your husband loves you! Or at least he loved you enough at one time to be willing to marry you. That isn't a lie.

Marriage Builders is all about creating and sustaining that kind of love. But when infidelity enters the picture, the first thing that has to happen is that the affair (physical and/or emotional) HAS TO BE STOPPED. The sooner the better.

So read up, become familiar with the Basic Concepts and more. Read all the articles linked to the right of the screen. ---->

Then do ALL the things the "pros" here tell you to do. Even if you think, "I should/would never do that." Especially if you feel that! In my case, for example, my initial reaction was to want to "hide the dirty little secret" and work behind closed doors. WRONG! Exposure is what works best. And you'll get plenty of guidance on how to expose the affair. Nothing works to kill an affair faster and more effectively than exposing it to everyone who has influence over your husband and can apply pressure. At the same time, you become the woman he fell in love with all over again. In a nutshell, this is Plan A.

If Plan A doesn't work (and there is a time limit on how long it is to be worked), then it's time for Plan B. I won't go into Plan B yet, as it's more important to focus on Plan A.

What you need to keep in the front of your mind at all times is that you are FIGHTING TO SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE. It will be hard. You will feel brutalized and tortured at times. This may be the hardest thing you have done in your life. But you CAN DO IT. And the end result will be your satisfaction and your peace of mind. You will have given your best and you will know what direction your path will take -- and be at peace with that -- when all is said and done.

Hang in there. We at MB wish you the merriest Christmas possible under the circumstances. We have all been where you are now. Have courage and strength. We are with you!

Hi Expect, I'm just checking in to see how you are doing. I see you aren't here. I'm praying for you. I'll check back and see how you are doing in the morning.

Listen to Believer and Frank, they really understand this and their words are dead on.

Hugs EM....

Thank you all for your advice! Really! I feel so motivated! But I also feel so stuck. You see, I think this is a long distance affair, and I really feel helpless to find out and expose who it is. I do know that my husabnd seems willing to give up EVERYTHING to be with her. God help me I just don't know what to do, I know he has guilt, but never enough to come home. He's told me where our marriage went wrong; receration and sex, yet he won't spend time with me so that I can work on those areas. Where do I go from here?

EAM, I'm not entirely sure I get this statement . Is this because you are separated from your WH or the OW is long distance from your WH?

My WH lives and works on the west coast, he had gone home to the midwest . His stepfather said he had been "shacked up" the whole time. But of course he had to come west to go back to work. He told me that he would even change careers to be able to move to the midwest; he's already looking for new jobs. I believe the OW is in the midwest.

Okay, I know I'm supposed to be kind and all, but does that include leaving the wireless internet card I loaned him active so that he can Skype with the OW? He told me he wanted to borrow it so that he could email me yet no emails, so I'm fairly certain what he's using it for.

Stop paying for communication between hubby and his affair partner. Cancel it TODAY.

Right now it will be hard to follow the MB advice, because he is in the midst of an affair, so he won't be interested in having contact with you. However that will change. You can count on it.

EAM, If you read nothing else, read this. B is the EXPERT on knowing that an A will ONE DAY end. She reminded me over and over and over again that ALMOST all A end one day. I didn't believe it like I'm sure you don't, but I held on and it happened.

Stop LISTENING to what he says. Just watch the ACTIONS. He is saying the same thing that they all say. GARBAGE...

Okay I found out who it is, I just don't have physical proof of the affair. What now?

First you protect your finances. Then you cancel anything that would enable the affair.

If you think you have found the affair partner, you might want to just do nothing, if you have no proof. But please think about who you would have to provide the proof to. Certainly not hubby - he already knows and will deny everything.

I spent a long time obtaining proof, which my WH denied, over and over.

The main thing is that you know. Then you can expose the affair, but it sounds like his relatives already know. Is that right?

Take your time. You can expose to anyone who has influence on hubby - his family, people he works with, her family, etc. You do it by letting them know that you love your husband and request their help in saving your marriage.

Yes, his family knows. They aren't sure who it is. But now that I know I will call his mom and dad and ask them. His stepdad is my biggest ally. He said he saw him looking a a womans pics too, so I'll ask him if the description is the same. I'm going through all her family and friends wall posts to find hard evidence. Merry Christmas! It's kinda sick that I think that finding out who my husband is having an affair with is my biggest Chrsitmas present. Pretty pathetic, huh?

Should I confront the OW first or just send the exposure letter?

I need to catch up on this, but my first reaction because I see you are on and I always remembered when I was on I wanted immediate replies so I didn't feel so helpless or alone.

If I am accurate, it is NEVER a good idea to confront the OW. She isn't the problem your WH is. Let me read the rest though.

Thank you Queenie! Yes I do feel very helpless and alone. Thank you for your response. I know it is her, but I don't have any physical proof. His family is on my side but they are beginning to shut down. Should I expose anyway? We have gone to mediation and he is pretty much giving me everything; but only so it'll be easier to move across the country with her. I know if I expose, he will start a world war. What to do?

Do you have a lawyer, don't sign anything. Can't you stall?

EAM, understandably you are all over the map with emotions and WANTING to do something.

STOP... BREATHE...TALK to G-d and RELAX.... BREATHE... DON'T MOVE, DON'T SIGN... BREATHE.....

Keep breathing. Things are moving too fast, try and slow them down. You know they have had an A, but there is absolutely no PROOF? Then if you have to do something, find the proof. You can do it.

How is his family beginning to shut down? I found that A thrive on not only secrecy but absolute chaos. This seems pretty chaotic and moving way too fast.

Your WH is pushing you into something you don't want. Are you financially protected? Do you rely on his money to survive?

No, he took all our money and got a lawyer for himself. I agreed to mediation and I have found many things wrong with the wording.

I have been talking to God and yesterday, on Christmas, nearly lost all my faith. But then I discovered who she was. I just need solid proof because I know he will make me look like a fool if I don't.

I called a P.I. where the OW lives, he said that because of legal issues and since he already filed that I'd have to be very very careful if I were to expose or else I could lose any hope for even half our assets. He also said that no P.I.'s in the area even do that type of investigation anymore and that it would cost as much for a P.I. as a lawyer; thousands for just the retainer.

Um, as far as proof. That is hard because she is so far away. His stepdad talked to me yesterday about it and I think it made his mom mad that he did. He told me that he is my biggest ally. I tried to get a hold of him today, but I think he may be in trouble for telling me as much as he did. I feel very helpless. I love him so much, but am so hurt and so tired of hurting.

At his urging, I've been a student our whole marriage. I have my son to worry about and can't even find employment in my prior professions; bartending and waitressing. It seems all businesses are cutting back. Like I said he has taken all of our savings. I feel like I have no recourse; either I cave in to his wants or else we are on the street.

I know EAM you are tired. I REALLY REALLY understand.

I'm so not the expert on legal advice. If you find something wrong with the wording, DO NOT sign a THING... OK

He can't make you look like anything. He can try, but you are fighting for your M and have to apologize to NO ONE...

This is what Believer said,

TRUST her wisdom. She knows her stuff.

Okay, so I should expose? I have a letter written already.

Is there not SOME free legal advice that you can call or child protection services that MIGHT be able to help you gather information and find out how you can protect your finances.

If he has moved and left you penniless, are there not services where you can get food stamps or go to the food bank for emergency help.

I don't know your economic situation, but I was one upper middle class wife, living high on the hog in a 3000 sq ft house. I needed to feed my babies and I was able to get help from jewish services.

I'm scared to, should i wait until I sign the DA?

I looked for legal aid, we are literally in the middle of nowhere and there is none. I wish I were Jewish, they always take such good care of one another, at least as I've seen from friends I've had.

But, no he's is willing to give me anything, pretty much so that he can get out. I'm scared if I expose that we will have to battle. I have to care about the finances because I have my son. But really "things" don't mean that much to me, I just want my husband back.

Of course you are scared. This is a terribly scaring situation to be going through.

I have to get going to my AA mtg. One thing... go to my thread and see if you can find the words of wisdom from Mark, and Johnstwin about G-d and how my relationship with him is what got me through things.

Don't sign anything tonight. Just for tonight, leave it alone. If you have a bible, go grab it, pray to G-d by just talking to him, nothing formal and open up the book and start reading. Talk to G-d ASK him what to do, ask HIM for help, TELL HIM all of what's happening. TRUST HIM..

I promise you he is right there waiting to hear you talk.

I just don't know if I am strong enough for this. When he first left, I was in utter shock and disbelief. I had waited so long for him to come home, had just moved into our first home and was so happy. Then he just left. He said he was mad about the finances. I told him I had saved every receipt from when he was gone and that I'd make a ledger to show him. I also told him I'd look for a job on USAJOBS so that I could make up for any money he'd lose by not going back to Iraq.

The only problem was that although I had a wireless internet card, we live in a remote location and it doesn't work up here. So because I needed the net to access our bank account and account for each receipt and to look for jobs online, and to get out of the house in hopes it would cheer me up and because the few people I kind of know live in our old town an hour away from here and because i was going stir crazy in a house with no phone, no net, no tv...I drove there and sat in the bowling alley to work on those things. A new girlfriend of mine said that her and her friends were going there and I could sit with them. She had recently gone through a D too. I was too sad to hang out with them; they were all so happy, I felt like a fool because the tears wouldn't stop so I found a table alone and worked on those things. Eventually they left.

It's a big process to itemize receipts for a year and work on resumes to fit jobs; especially when you are so sad and crying, so I didn't have it complete. I was feeling I needed so much to finish so I could show my husband the ledger and help with the finances. When I was leaving the bowling alley, I stopped outside the front door and decided to call my old neighbors and see if I could sleep on their couch so that I didn't have to drive a hour home and a hour back the next day. I couldn't get a hold of them and was crying. A woman who is an acquaintence, and had been in the bowling ally too with her husband who is a prison guard came outside and asked me what was wrong. I told her about my husband and the ledger and the job search and explained I couldn't get a hold of my friend and that I was just so sad. She said that they were on their way home and that I shouldn't be alone and so sad and that I was welcome to come sit and talk with her until I could get a hold of my neighbor. I agreed and followed them home.

This is where it gets really bad. I got there and she sat with me and we talked and I cried. Her husband offered me something to drink. Well it had some sort of date rape drug in it. I hate reliving it, but basically I was drugged and raped and beaten badly.

It was the last thing I needed after my husband left me. I was so afraid to tell him. Normally he'd have been the first person I went to, but he had been lying and acting so cold and mean I was afraid he wouldn't care or blame me; and I already blamed myself for trusting. But it was a woman I kind of knew and her husband who was a correctional officer,which to me is almost like a police officer, so stupidly I did. Anyway, I didn't know who to turn to. I was afraid if I went to a pastor or to the hospital; which I really needed to do, that they would report it and my husband would find out and I'd lose any chance of saving my marriage.

So, I turned to my husband's mom, she's a nurse. She told me I needed to go to the hospital and that my husband needed to know. So, three days after I couldn't take it anymore' I literally thought I was going to die, so I told my husband. At first he didn't believe me. He thought I was trying to manipulate him. Then he emailed back and was angry, "how could i let that happen?" and that he wanted to kill the guy. Then he messaged me and said he was sorry and that I needed to go to the hospital and to the police. I asked him if he could drive me because I didn't feel safe to drive, but he wouldn't. It's a half hour away, but I somehow made it. I spoke to the sherriff, but I explained that I was not emotionally stable enough to deal with my divorce and to go to court for this. He said I could pursue it when I was stronger. I asked the ER doc for anti-depression pills or anti-anxiety pills, but he gave me sleeping pills, which is the last thing I needed after being drugged. I never took them.

Since then I have pretty much been holed up in my house crying, throwing up, I hardly sleep, and am afraid to leave, especially to that town where that guy is. I know I am supposed to be the woman my husband fell in love with, but it extremely difficult. It's been 2 months since he left and 1 1/2 since the rape and 1 since the divorce papers came.

I'm normally a very strong person, but all this has really taken it's toll on me. I just don't know if I have the emotional strength to do what I need to do to save my marriage. I can't bear the thought of not trying. I do pray to God and read the Bible, I had before the rape too. But, I feel I am losing faith.

I know this isn't a rape website, but thought it was relevant to my ability to save my marriage and to maybe bring light to the reason for the hopelessness I have been exhibiting.

The rape is said and done. I just hope and pray that I can oversome all this grief and find the strength to save my marriage. Any suggestions on how to find strength?

I try my best to put on a positive front when I see him, but I'm so afraid he knows me too well. We have always been very emotionally close. He has told me the areas we lacked in were recreation and sex; and I'd agree. Not that I never wanted those things, there are other things that led to breakdowns in those areas.

Am I supposed to act as if I were happy he's leaving or just be cooperative and kind? I had no warning on this, and I honestly trusted my husband. Maybe if I'd been more jealous, I'd have known. I realize I've made mistakes now that I've read the concepts, I just feel like this is a cram session for a final exam I was never told about. I've been reading, but really need some advice. Stick to plan A and let the divorce go through? I can only stall so long..Expose the affair without hard evidence? I was told by a P.I. that I could actually get in legal trouble for that since he already filed. I'm not feeling very able to focus and calm down, I am in total panic. How can I improve on the sex and the recreation if I never see him?

I'm so sorry for what happened, but...you HAVE to go back to the police and put this SOB in JAIL!

Are you in the states? Go to www.unitedway.org and find your closest center, and go to them for help, ok?

{{{{{{{EAM}}}}}}

You have been through SO much. Please listen to Catperson. You need to take care of yourself. Your M can wait. Let G-d take care of your WH.

Go to the police, find out what you can to bring charges against this animal and heal yourself FIRST....

I have gone to the police, it has been reported. But, I stressed that I would not be able to deal with the court proceedings until I got through the pain of my husband leaving.

I don't feel my marriage can wait. My husband is mustering support against me with his lies and the OW was a friend from high school. He is on the fast track to divorce; can't wait until it's final, so he can move across country to be with her. I can hear the clock ticking.

So...what exactly are you doing to get him back? You aren't looking attractive, being as disturbed as you are. You aren't showing any self-respect, by just shrugging off a RAPE for the time being - so shy should HE respect you?

All you are appearing is desperate, self-loathing, and vehemently depressed. NONE of this is attractive. NONE of it would make your H choose you over his fun-loving, non-stressed-out OW.

I'm not trying to drag you down. I'm trying to tell you that YOU have to put yourself first, or HE never will.

The more desperate you become to get him back, the less appealing you become. Until you can be ok with YOURSELF - BY yourself, he will never come back.

Makes sense catperson. Really. I am just so scared. He is already looking for jobs there. He spent Christmas with her along with about 3-4 other week long trips in the past 2 months. He immediately filed for divorce. There should be a divorce judgement in mid January, ugh!

EAM, you can't control what your WH does. You can only control yourself and take care of yourself.

The reason that I got a chance for marital recovery was my complete and utter surrender to G-d for personal recovery. I was a mess. I was desperate, self-loathing, horrifically a sick human being that came to understand that UNTIL I became healthy by myself, for myself, there would be NO MARRIAGE...

You can't give love to another if you don't learn to love yourself. You have been through a HORRIFIC situation that just CAN'T be pushed under the covers. It will haunt you until you face it head on.

Even if you got your M back, what good would you be?

Ps 109:1 O God of my praise, be not silent:

Ps 109:2 For the mouth of the wicked man and the mouth of deceit are opened against me: they have spoken against me with a lying tongue,

Ps 109:3 And with words of hatred have they encompassed me; and they fight against me without a cause.

Ps 109:4 For my love they are mine adversaries; but I give myself unto prayer.

Ps 109:5 And they have rewarded me evil for good, and hatred for my love.

Ps 109:6 Set a wicked man over him, and let the adversary stand at his right hand;

Ps 109:7 When he shall be judged, let him go out guilty, and let his prayer become sin;

Let G-d have your H, let him deal with the lies that he is doing. Let G-d deal with the other side of the mountain. Let G-d heal you. Let him create in you what he created in me, a woman of G-d who was NO MATCH for any WH or OW. I withstood them all in the end because I was willing to LET GO and LET G-D.

EAM stop worrying about what THEY are doing. Even in Plan A, you HAVE to learn to create YOUR PLAN. Make those changes in YOU that you have always wanted to. Instead of focusing on the ickiness of the A, focus on the healing of YOU...

Try to live life ONE DAY AT A TIME..... Today there is NOTHING you can do for your M, but heal the soul that needs you. YOUR SOUL... If he were there, he would still be the selfish, self-centered ICKY wayward and you would be in just as much pain.

Honey, you aren't ready for him in your life.

Mid January? You have NO CONCEPT of how much can happen if you stop focusing on HIM and focus on G-d.

Thank you Queenie that was beautiful and I do believe you are right. I had just felt so frustrated because when WH had left, I prayed and prayed and I found the strength to do "something" and then that thing happened; it totally crushed what little was left of my strength. I guess it's just the little things. It seems every time I gather strength, I am squashed again; like getting served on our anniversary, my 40th B-day, the holidays, the lies he tells about me and what not. I will put him and our marriage in Gods hands once again and work on healing. I just feel this pain will never end. Like, lol when he left a msg on my phone saying he hopes I have a good Christmas. Part of me was happy, but the other part felt it was like a person saying "have a great day" as they are simultaneously disemboweling and murdering you.

EaM, the point is that you weren't born married to him. You don't breathe oxygen because he wills it. He doesn't control whether you get cancer or get a promotion or even buy a book. YOU control your life. YOU will still be alive tomorrow, even if he moves in with her. YOUR life will not be over. Your life does not depend on anything he does.

Yes, you may be unhappy, may not have life lived out the way you expected, but you will still be alive.

I'm trying to get you to pull back a little. The more desperate you become to KEEP him, the less you can see that HE is not the reason for your life.

All I'm asking is for you to step back and see this, so that you can make smarter decisions, ok?

Can someone come in and say this in a better way, please?

There is a book I want you to get if you can afford. It's called G-d is more than Enough, I believe the author is Tony Easton. It saved MY LIFE...

Ps 23:1 The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not be in want

Ps 23:2 He makes me lie down in green pastures, he leads me beside quiet waters

Ps 23:3 he restores my soul He guides mee in paths of righteousnessf
for his name�s sake

Ps 23:4 Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,1h
I will fear no evil for you are with me your rod and your staff, they comfort me.

Ps 23:5 You prepare a tablek before me in the presence of my enemies.
You anoint my head with oil my cup overflows.

Ps 23:6 Surely goodness and loven will follow me all the days of my life,
and I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever.

This Psalm, Jeremiah 29:11 and Psalm 139 were my lifelines....

You are right Queenie. I will do that. I have found it difficult however, and probably because we were so emotionally close, to recover from his "low blows". It's like he feels when I'm feeling better and gaining strength and confidence, and will purposefully try to cut me down. Maybe not, but the timing has been imepecable. For example, I know he knows when our anniversary is and i think he asked that i be served DP on it; really cruel, at least I think, especially after he knew the other things I've been dealing with. Surely his lawyer suggested it to throw me off balance; evil woman. But, I won't worry about all that and focus on what I can do for me and for my soul.

Thank you Cat. I know he is not my lifesource, lol. Although it does feel like it after suffering so much. I do love him very much, but you are right. Every time I get my strength, he will do something that knocks me back down. I just need to stop letting him. I need to care for myself first.

I think he was angry with the strength he saw in me this summer, the confidence. It made him feel insecure and that hurt him; especially when he was overseas felling so helpless, and I feel that made him angry; which is... I believe what started all this. I don't know anything for sure, but I do know him very well, or at least I used to, or I thought I did.

Thank you for that Queenie. That was my dad's favorite! I will look for the book. Thank you for your inspiration! I'm feeling a bit better; I pray to God it will last.

EAM, try to watch the disrespectful judgments. I remember in the beginning saying, I think that he is thinking this or that. The truth was he wasn't thinking at all and I was so off base, that it was a LB.

He's an addict, totally involved in chaos and addiction. Don't try and crawl into what he is thinking. It's dark, sick, icky and dangerous.

Keep the light on G-d. He KNOWS what he wants you to do. G-d will protect you from the evil forces. Read the bible. In fact I will try and look on my thread for the amazing stuff that Mark sent me as inspiration.

Awww. thank you! I would love that! I actually got a big inspiration also from the video posted entitled, "don't underestimate an old lady". Holy smokes, I love dance so much, but my husband didn't like me to dance much. He thought he couldn't, but I remember him actually being pretty good, in a comical kinda way. You are right about the disrespectful judgements. I feel like a wounded animal trapped in a corner; I guess instinct causes us to lash out. It's kinda funny though because my husband majored in sociology and we had this ongoing debate wether humans could have instincts. I thought it obvious that we do, but he said a professor told him it impossible. At one point he even had planned on testing it and living in the woods, just to see, lol. I miss him.

I'm feeling very sad today. I can't seem to pull myself out of the funk I'm in. I know I shouldn't think of all the good times; there were so many, and I try so hard not to, but they flash into my head. It makes me miss him so much and I tremble with the pain. If I can't get out of this, how can I ever implement plan A?

You'll get better. Time heals a lot of things. How about reading up on the Stages of Grief? I think that will help today.

Thanks Cat, I have read them. It just seems like when I start progressing through them, something else happenes and kicks me back to stage 1.

It's so bad. I try not to think of it, but it keeps coming into my head. He's on the fast track to divorce and I never saw it coming and he's moving halfway across the country to be with the OW asap.

I'm usually a very strong person. I was hurt very badly when I was a child and have always had the most difficult time opening my heart totally. When I became aware that my husband wasn't happy, I figured it was because I hadn't completely opened my heart; so I did. I looked so forward to him coming home and I had dedicated myself to do everything to ensure our marriage was better. But he just left. I trusted him. He was so secretive that it took until Christmas to find out who the OW is. I have the divorce agreement in hand and he will want me to sign on Monday.

It has been two months since he left, since I even knew anything was wrong. I think he had an EA via Facebook with her while he was in Iraq. He came home for two days after being gone ten months and then vanished. I think that's when it became physical. Maybe he thinks he's doing the "right" thing and being the "good" guy by divorcing me, but he is tearing my heart out as well as our children's. I think he thinks it's funny; probably not, but it feels as if he were really enjoying it.

I know what I need to do, but can't seem to get it together. I'm in a state of total panic. Never, did I ever think he'd leave me, or lie to me, or any of this.

Should I keep asking for changes to the divorce agreement? WS said he'd pay all the bills for a year and that I could keep almost all our belongings. I could get 3 years alimony if I go to court; maybe.

It's not so much that I care about the things. It's just that he will have to work alot to be able to afford paying our expenses and the expenses for his love shack. She is in the midwest I'm pretty sure, I'm only hoping that it being a "long distance" thing will help me. Any words of wisdom here?

I was feeling stronger yesterday and for the first part of today and then I got another email from him...

It is sad you wont accept the divorce. No matter what it will happen.You didnt make any time for me for years, 6 years! I dont love you and have been trying to live through depression for at least the last 2 to 3 ;years because you guys were just freeloading off me and I recieved nothing but your displeasures from it, daily! I just felt bad about divorcing you or would have a long time ago. I know you really dont love me, because if you did, you would want to let me go find happiness, but still you are selfish and refuse to help or be cooperative in any way. All you want to do is hurt me because you are hurting. I could write hateful mean things too, but I pray that you find strength and courage and heal, not for you to hurt and pay!!!!! That is the difference between caring and needing and between loving and codependancy.

Yet prior to this he sent me this June 1st and we have been so excited to see each other since..

I am truly sorry for hurting you. I don't love anyone but you and the
kids. I know we have problems but all I want is for us to have good
times and find joy and be happy with our family. That is the truth and I
pray it every night and every day. I will let you have time to think about things. Love you and
miss you, but I wouldn't want to be there right now.

Yours only,

And right before he came home beginning of Oct...



>>>>
>>>>> Sounds like a pretty busy week for both of us, huh? Hope
>>>>> everything goes well and Mops will be do happy there in his
>>>>> sanctuary. I'll bet those little dudes were crazy! Love you too
>>>>> have a good day, Im makin coffee and then have to re-do like 30
>>>>> training slides. Lovers you , Butterfly antennae.
>>>>>

He was home for a few days then gone...
Should I tell him I don't want to speak to him? It hurts too much. I waited so long and even wait now, only to be crushed by the bad stuff. I'm so pathetic, I know, but I love him

And what you should actually hear is "Blah Blah Blah Wayward Foggy Babble Blah Blah".

BTDT. The rewriting of the marital history is part and parcel of an affair. Follow your plan. You have the strength inside of you to do it. And if you're not sure what your plan is... write it down again.



Codependency saves marriages, as long as both spouses are co-dependent on one another.

Thanks Barnboy! What really hurts is that he tells everyone how horrible I am. He has tons of friends yet made sure he isolated me from everyone before he did this.

I will stick to the plan. How would you respond to the first email?

I'd get a lawyer and let the lawyer talk to him.

I wouldn't. Treat it as the wayward fog-babble it is, and just respond sweetly.

A forum member taught me how to handle that kind of talk. "Aww, I know how that feels, too, sweetie. Would you like a cookie?"

Remember that you need to set an end-date -- probably some time soon -- for when you're done being nice to him and need to shut him out of your life completely -- even if you don't divorce immediately -- in order to retain what love you have for him. He sounds like he's being an abusive, manipulative wayward who's putting your heart through the ringer.

Get ready for "Plan B", and you should really make sure your financial house is in order, and that your life is ready to communicate with him only through an intermediary to protect you from his wayward drama. You probably want to talk to a professional rather than just us forum-ites, too. Dr. Harley has recovered marriages in which the spouses have been separated for YEARS...

Thank you Barnboy, Your encouragement really helps and yes I do feel abused.

So do you literally say, "would you like a cookie?" Or just change the subject in some positive way?

If you respond the the fogbabble email, you could say something like

"I am sorry you are hurting and hope you feel better soon."

Simple. Loving. Addressing his angst but not reacting to it negatively.

Thanks reading! I'll do just that

As a fellow betrayed spouse, I feel I owe a debt to this board for helping put me on the right track in the tempestuous days post D-Day. Helping pass along some of what was given to me freely abates my debt.


You ARE being abused. Waywards abuse their spouses emotionally and sometimes physically. They abuse your fidelity by cheating. They abuse your trust by lying about it. They abuse your children by using them as pawns or making them lose a parent while concealing the reasons why.

Recognizing the abuse is just a step toward healing it... if you live as a victim forever, the wayward has won.


You figured it out on your own. The idea is to express sympathy and understanding -- heck, I even did that while my wife was going through withdrawal from the OM, I expressed sympathy for her feelings! -- and then move on to something positive.

Your goal is to rebuild romantic love, and part of the way you can do it is to avoid bringing up the affair as a discussion. Learn to present the truth of the hurt the affair causes in simple, direct language, without inviting discussion about it. Discussions about an affair are incredibly unpleasant and withdraw love units from both spouses. So during Plan A, you don't want to be the cause of your spouse's unhappiness as much as possible, so you try to keep the conversation positive and light. No divorce talk, no relationship talk, just deposit Love Unit after Love Unit without making withdrawals...

The point of saying 'want a cookie' is to establish to your WS that you won't engage in their fogbabble - that you give what they are saying NO credibility. Therefore, it makes just as much sense to change the subject and offer them a cookie, as it does to discuss why YOU caused them to have an affair. Besides, it confuses the h&ll out of them, and that momentary slip-up is priceless.

Thank you for explaining that Cat, it makes such good sense. I think that I also really need to get my emotions under control and not let his foggy talk affect me so much.

If it helps, think of them as a drug addict. Once you're addicted, every minute of every day is focused on getting you the next fix. Suddenly, that PhD in microbiology you're one semester away from seems like a waste of time. And who cares if you pawn your mom's wedding ring for the next fix; she's dead now anyway.

That's the kind of thinking a WS is doing. So when you deal with him, just remember it's the addiction talking, not the OLD H buried deep inside.

Wow! Great analogy! I'll keep that in my head at all times.

Okay, well I'm feeling pretty vengeful right now. Needing some help. I have to be nice right?

I am not caught up on your thread and I don't have much to say except give you a hug and wanted to say hi.

The addiction analogy is really dead on.

You have to remember that you are NO LONGER dealing with a human being, but the MONSTER who is out to destroy you and get his fix. At all and any cost.

This was so hard to remember and grasp because I saw him and he looked almost like my H except that if you looked closely at his eyes...... It was the eyes of a cold headed monster.

Personally, I would be upset if you DIDN'T report them stealing my tax dollars.

Hugs back Queenie! Slowly and surely am I gaining my strength. Thank you for the kind words.

Hey Cat, I feel the same. I just wondered if that would be healthy when it comes to trying to retrieve my marriage.

My WS called CPS on me today. I'm really doing my best to stay calm but am raging inside. He told them that I was upset; duh! And also that I didn't have food to feed my son. Which really makes me angry because I had stocked up on tons of canned foods and frozen foods this summer; I mean tons! My WS had complained that he couldn't afford to eat anyhting but canned raviolis, so I packed up half of my stocked food and gave it to him. I also even gave him a big tupperware container with Pot roast. And then he does that.

I told them that I was upset and explained why. They asked to see my food stock. I showed them. They said it looked really good but are going to come check on me in two weeks. They interviewed my son and asked him if he was worried about me. He explained that dad had left anf that I cried a lot. He told me later that he almost told them how dad had picked him up by his hair, but that he didn't.

My WS is so smug and happy with himself. I am so angry and frustrated right now that I could scream! It's already hard enough without the govt. nosing in every few weeks. Maybe they should check on my WS and the OW. Once again he's trying to make me the "bad guy"! AARGH!

What are you doing to document what he does to you? It's obvious you will have to use evidence against him. He is going to be an A+ Jerk. Protect yourself.

And call the police about him pulling his son by the hair.

The hair pulling thing happened multiple times in the past. I would always diffuse the situation, so I don't know if I could do anything about it now.

I'm really sad, but at the point where I think I really hate him for what he has done; and I don't believe in hate because it hurts me too. God! But I love him at the same time...Okay I guess I love my H and I hate the WS, right?

Does anyone know anything about "Alienation of Affection" laws. The OW is from Illinois and I know that they accept AOA suits. Any input?

I think I'm ready to give up. I really don't want to, but every time I get any strength he pulls more evil crap! I know I should be stronger and not let it affect me, but...Okay, I'm breathing, I'm calm, I'm at peace. Ugh!

Keep your chin up Expects. I just read through your thread and it is heartbreaking, but I admire your strength. I will pray for you.

From what I read, (OM lives in ILL too) there is not much you can take from them monetarily in ILL. There are very strict limits to punitive damages etc.

If you want to make his life miserable for a while though I say go for it. I would be happy to contribute to the "sue the slimeball" fund.

Thanks Bean, I think I'm gaining strength. I have a lot of dirt on him and will bide my time.

Still working Plan A, but because of the surrounding circumstances along with the speed at which the D has progressed, I'm kind of losing hope and the angry Viking redhead in me is coming out.):0 He's never seen that side of me before and really I think he doesn't even know it exists. I really much prefer my nicer side and still have glimmers of hope, but it's fading fast.

We have already been through Mediation. He had agreed to pay all my living expenses for a year, split any profit made on the sale of our home, pay off my vehicle, and give me alimony for a year (normally it would be 3 years alimony, but since he's paying all the other bills I agreed)Also, if the house didn't sell I could take over payments (except I don't have a job right now and am not sure I could get one).

Then I started imagining the possibility of having to move at the same time next year, ugh! We live high up in the Sierra Nevadas (think Donnar Party/Tahoe), and the snow can be outrageous. I asked him if we could do a year and a half so that I could move in nicer weather. That made him angry and he called his attorney and told her to go after me.

He called me today saying he felt bad about it, but that his attorney told him that if she couldn't do it her way that she wouldn't represent him. And he's so afraid for us to file the mediation papers by ourselves because he knows I'm smarter than him and thinks that I have some trick up my sleeve, lol! I wish I did!

He told me he had another idea...He'd give me 25G, pay my living expenses for 2 months at which point I'd move out of the house. He'd still sell it and I would still get half the profit. He'd still pay off my car. But I'd be responsible for my own bills after that.

I know you aren't supposed to move out, but my mom would love it if we were to stay with her while I finished school. I could help her with the bills and still have a healthy nestegg until the house sold.

Any thoughts?

Oh yeah, and he also told me he might not have a job in two months.

I really wonder where he is getting all this money. I asked him if he won the lottery and he said that if he had he wouldn't be working all the overtime .

I also made a booboo and brought up the OW. He said it's not what I think, but wouldn't elaborate. When I questioned further he said that it didn't matter what he did because we are getting divorced.

I don't know what you should do about the house and living there or heading off to do more schooling.

But

keep up the plan A.

That and document anything that happens. Certainly keep the reciepts for the groceries you buy in the future and have the home super neat and tidy and yourself and your child likewise.

Find a hobby too right now. Something you have always wanted to do and can keep you distracted and engaged in life. Enjoyment in something will help ride the storm.

Don't let the angry viking redhead come out to view (she is your Taker and she is not going to do you any good at all).

Thanks Reading! I will stay on plan A and hold my cards close for later if need be; I'll tame the Redhead Viking at least for now, LOL!

I'll take your advice on the other stuff and have thought about taking some dance classes; dancing always makes me happy!

I just read your thread too Bean, and it's awfully sad as well; although it sounds like your progress and success have been greater than mine. It made me cry; but I guess it doesn't take much for that nowdays, lol! It sounds like your WW is a female version of my husband. He was an admitted flirt, and I never cared much for jealousy , besides I trusted him totally; even after the first affair. Stupid and ignorant on my part, I know. It sounds to me like she's insecure deep down and derives her confidence from the OM's attention; it makes her feel attractive. I thrived on that kind of attention in my twenties, yet never allowed it to get physical; unless of course I was in a committed relationship. I realized quickly that it was not "me" they liked(for my inside) but just the way I looked, and the thrill of the chase. I hope your wife can realize that; and my husband too! And that they can see that real love is more than skin deep.

I'm having a very hard time today.

My WH wrote today..."I am sorry truly sorry about everything truly, but I also feel like you have doing everything in your mind to make this hard and confusing and not agreeable.".

My WH wrote today regarding the rape..."The people that did that are just evil and deserve the wrath and pain they will get one day. It hurts, but I truly cannot stay in the role that I was in and get divorced, so I have to be distant from that. From everything.".

Then he basically said that he hopes I have a good life, to be strong for my son and , "Good luck!".

It just hurts so much. Two months ago he loved me soooo much and was my best friend. He was so excited about our new home; our first home, and now we are selling it. I was there for him the whole time he was in Iraq; but I guess she was too. Little did I know he'd just never come home. I didn't even know she existed...

You really need to take your anti-depressants. You have TOO MUCH going on, too many awful things.

Could you go stay with your mom and go to school and just put the D on hold?

I have been taking anti-depressants; not prescription, but they are prescription in Europe and honestly I think they work better than the few others I've tried. I am actually better than I was...it was really bad for a while.

I wish I could put the D on hold, I've tried every delay tactic possible. That is why he's mad.

Like I said, we waited nearly a year for him in Iraq, messaged 20+ times a day, Skyped, called, sent care packages...He couldn't wait to get home to see me, told me how much he loved and missed us. I was sad though because he had timed his leave so he could go to his friends' wedding, so I had him home for two days, it was hard to give up the time with him. He came home from the wedding and was kind of snappy, but i figured it was because his dad was sick and he was stressed about going back to Iraq. He left again to see his dad (same town) and then he never came home. I found out about the divorce by a cell phone message. Less than a month later D papers. He cannot wait to get divorced. He won't explain why. He has told his family and friends a bunch of lies or exaggerations. I found out there is another woman. I think he thinks he's head over heels and plans on marrying her. Still on plan A


He acts somewhat decent if I'm as kind as a tax collector, but if I show any more warmth, he shuts up like a clam, won't talk to me..."I can talk though his lawyer" etc. The messages he sent me today (in the earlier post)are the most warmth I've seen from him sice he left, and they were not that warm and fuzzy.

Our son confronted him today and he said that it has "nothing to do with him". My son corrected him and said "It does too!"

I'm just doing my best to stay strong. I feel so broken. I feel I have to compete with the OW. Normally, I'd blow her away. I'm usually very confident; quiet but strong. But, now with all this I feel so defeated.

So there is no way to slow the divorce? I forget what state you are in.

If you can't slow it down, don't agree to anything he wants.

What would happen if you just moved in with your mom?

I am in Cali. I've tried to change the agreemnet many times; nitpick on wording, change dates, etc...

If I were to move in with my mom before settling the divorce, he'd get everything.

So, we are doing this stupid dance. Every time he starts to feel sentimental, his lawyer will push for him to screw me over and he gets angry again. Of course, she just wants more money. I would care less about the money, but I have a child to support. Otherwise, I'd ot be so worried. I just want him back.

I think if he were to sit and talk with me for even a few hours, he'd be home. He's trying to keep himself cold. It sucks.

I live in Cali too. A quick divorce is not possible here.

Really? Could have fooled me...

My husband came home from Iraq on Oct. 5th. He went to Illinois on the 8th and came back on the 17th, he left again on the 20th and was supposed to come back on the 28th, but "missed" his plane. On the 29th I got the message that he wasn't coming back and we were getting a divorce.

I got the divorce papers on Nov, 21st; our 6th Anniversary. less than a month later. The divorce judgement was suppsed to happen mid-Jan. But it may take longer since I have delayed. Either way..it is 6 months from the date of filing that it is final.

Not that it matters, he's already with the OW, and there is no way he could go back on it now; you can only go back within the first 30 days after filing.

You got the papers for the divorce, but unless you agree to his terms, it will take a long time. Even if you signed today, it would be 6 months from the filing date.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but you need to do more checking. He can try to starve you out, and if he does that, you just apply for welfare.

My point is, DON'T agree to something you don't want. The affair will end, I promise you that. You just need to hold out and take good care of yourself and your family.

You are right. It is 6 months from the filing date, but we will be divorced regardless. The last chance he had to withdraw was 30 days after filing. He has zero intention of withdrawing.

He is going to move to Illinois to be with her in an few months. He won't see me, rarely will talk to me or email me. The only hope I have is that when we went to mediation, I was so afraid I wouldn't see love in his eyes for me; but I did. Lots of sadness too.

I know he still loves me but is in love with her. I think I'd be stronger if it weren't for the rape, but that really got me while I was already down.

I think this is also why it hurts so much...When I was a kid; the same age my son is now, my parents got divorced. I was sad, but not too worried because I knew they both loved me and that I could still see my dad...

He saw me for a month or so on weekends, then one day when he was supposed to pick me up, he didn't show. I called and asked him where he was and he said he wasn't coming, that he wasn't my dad (big shock), that he never wanted to see me again and that he didn't love me. It totally crushed me. I have never been able to love any man since, until my husband. I totally trusted him because he had been through a similar thing. He swore he'd never hurt me or my son like that.

You see, my son also never met his real dad and my husband is the only dad he has ever known. He was going to adopt him too. So, not only do I have my own pain and shock to deal with from this, plus the rape, but i feel like I'm watching my son headed into the same pain I went through as a kid. My husband swears he won't do that to him, but he also swore he wouldn't do this to me.

Oh and did I mention that he is quitting his high level govt. job so that he can be with her?

Even if the judgement happened today, it would still take 6 months from filing for it to be final. In mediation my husband was so upset about that because he thought it was the seperation date; he can't wait!

EAM, you never know what can happen in 6 months. Even if he never comes back, you can use the next 6 months for YOU. You've got a 6 month plan to make an amazing future, ok? Even if he's not there, you can become fabulous, yourself.

You are right Cat! I just have my moments of weakness, pity-potty, down-in-da-dumps stuff. But thank you; you always have the greatest advice! Keppin' my chin up!

Thank you so much for the kind words. I think her situation is exactly as you described, She is very attractive but has a very negative opinion of her looks and these guys made her feel attractive.

I will keep praying for you. Your strength remains an inspiration. It is my hope that no matter what happens you find happiness. You deserve it.

There is lots of hope. Affairs almost always end - 99% of the time.

Do what you can to stall the divorce. Until then, take care of yourself and your family. You have a lot going on.

Thanks Bean! I'll be praying for you as well; along with everyone else here.

I hope you can find happiness too!

As for my strength, I don't feel all that strong, but I suppose I'm doing as good as possible considering.

Thanks Believer! I'm hanging on to hope. I'm just worried because he is planning on quitting his job and moving across the country to be with her. He says there's nothing for him here. I really think that he is having a hard time with the D. It has all happened so fast. I think that is why he has made so many trips back...he gets sentimental and has to go back to get his fix from the OW. Now reality is setting in, he spent all our money, he has to pay for two residences and can't just flit back there whenever he wants. I've given him some of his things; almost all gifts from me. So, each of those things has memories attached. He's actually pretty sensitive inside, but when he feels hurt he closes up like a clam. He may be beginning to crack a bit. I hope and pray!

I'm stalling all I can. Doing my best at Plan A; although I do need to pick my spirits up a bit. I wish I would have known about this site this summer. I was being fabulous, looking and feeling great, except I was aloof with my H because he had said I was "little or no effort" on his part. If I would have just done Plan A then, I know he'd be here.

This stuff takes lots of time, much more than is comfortable. When I found out my WH was cheating, I didn't think I could last a month.

But the truth is, affairs almost always end. It is just so excruciatingly painful in the meantime.

Stall, get your chin up, and start making a good life today. He will be back and you might even still want him.

Oh my...our son is the one who told me who the OW was, and that there even was one. A few weeks ago he came home from visiting WH and walked in the door and said there was something he had to tell me. He said he had asked his dad if he was leaving me because I was old. He told me WH said no, but that he didn't love me anymore. Our son said, "you're seeing someone else, huh?". WH said I'll show you her; weird but they have always talked about guy stuff like girls, sports, and farting; ewww. When they got to the house he showed our son her pic on FB. Our son said he didn't remember her name but said she was wearing a Bears football jersey. He said that after WH showed him her profile pic, WH spent their whole visit looking at half naked pics of her while our son played video games. Our son is quite the eavesdropper. For example.. once I was sitting in the library talking with his least favorite teacher about politics. Our son was worried I was talking with her about him and I learned towards the end of our conversation that he had been hiding under the library table listening the whole time. I never seem to be able to have a private conversation when he is around. I never asked our son info about WH or OW, but our son told me that this is a war, and that he's the General. I wasn't even certain there was an OW until our son told me; I half wondered if it could be PTSD.

Anyhow...Since WH had blocked me off his FB I started looking at his friends' friends. I finally found a woman in a Bears jersey. I looked at her profile and she had recently friended nearly all my WH friends and her sister had recently friended my WH. My son walked in the room and said, "that's her!".

So, I began writing the exposure letter, but wanted to find more physical proof first. Upon urging from folks on MB, I called a P.I. where she lives, but he told me that I could get into trouble doing the exposure letter since WH had already filed for D.

I was very frustrated and I spoke with my mom about it. Well, apparently our son overheard and went onto his FB account and wrote his own letter and sent it off.

I got an email from my WH today, in it he said...

" he wrote to her whole family and others as well, that is embarrasing and now old friends wont talk to me, so I dont even really check it anymore."

Then he went on to say that stuff like that isn't love. And threatened that if our son was going to do stuff like that he'd never see him again.

I went and checked and OW has now either totally made her FB invisible or has deleted her account.

Our son is kind of different. I guess you have to know him. For example, he asked Santa for a "Don't Tread on Me" flag for Christmas and will stand outside waving it anytime WH comes by. He arranged a protest with all the neighborhood kids when he learned WH wasn't coming home; with picket signs and all. He has presented speeches to the Board of Directors of the local Library urging them to extend library hours; which they did as a result. Nearly all who meet him think he's going to be a lawyer, politician, or even President. He's very charismatic and daring and never afraid to speak his mind. I'm sure WH gets and earful when he spends time with our son. Also our daughter is very similar and very eloquent; although a bit more subtle than our son. She is very upset as well.

I had already exposed to his family; they are all on my side, but had been hesitant about WH friends and OW family.

I feel badly that our son felt he needed to do that, but part of me is glad he did.

I'm not sure how to respond to WH email...Any suggestions? He's supposed to pick up our son tomorrow for a visit.

Thanks Believer! It's been two and a half months of excuciating pain; but I know what doesn't kill me makes me stronger. Of course in a few hours I may be a total mess again; such a roller-coaster! I'm keeping my head up. I have decided that I have to find the strength I had this past summer and focus on the future and be fabulous!

I am so impressed with your son!

If your WH's friends won't speak to him, it's not because of anything your son wrote. More 100% due to what your WH is doing. You could reply with that, if you feel the need to reply. In no way should you apologise, in case that thought crossed your mind.

No, I wasn't planning on apologies. I am impressed with my son too! But am also worried about the heat he will face tomorrow; he's only ten. I just went onto his FB and found out what he wrote...

"This is ***** I love him dearly he�s also my dad and if you believe in god and marriage then don�t let ****** or my dad see each other both me and my mom are hurt and we waited 10 months for him to come home so just please go agenst it im begging you and my dad ses that mom cheated and speat all the money but its not true please if you don�t act fast my dad will be gone foreverplease respond"

I'm so impressed. A little sad, though, that he felt he had to do what he saw you not doing. Not a dis at you, just what I think he may have felt, without even realizing it. Then again, kids just naturally think it's their job to take care of things.

I would talk to him, though, before tomorrow. Explain how waywards think and act. Tell him beforehand that his dad is acting like a child, a petty one, and may try to throw a tantrum at him. And if he does, just let it roll off his back, because this man is not really his dad, his dad's buried deep inside like a sci-fi movie, and he has to be patient for the real dad to emerge.

He's writing me a bunch now and he is very angry!

Thanks Cat, I'm pretty sad too! I will explain that to him. Our daughter understood that even before i did; in the beginning when I texted her asking if she had spoken to her dad, she replied with, "you mean the one that looks like my dad?".

She's a force herself. She told me that she wrote him an email saying that since the man she loved the most (dad) wasn't there for her maybe she should find a boyfriend to fill the void, but that of course once she loved him...he'd leave her too.

TravelMonkey, I wrote back what you said; pretty much and was kind and positive. I haven't received anymore angry emails; yet anyway. Thanks for the advice

That's because the exposure is working. Which is why YOU should be exposing all you can.

I agree! I have been writing a secondary letter entitled., "the truth". My WH has been telling everyone that I have been doing the things he has been doing and worse. He says I cheated, but I didn't, I never have; I had a mutual friend of ours hit on me this summer but I told him no. So I'm writing this to prove his allegations false...Do you think that a good idea? Basically, he has been justifying his actions by accusing me of cheating.. What would you suggest?

HA! Your kids sound awesome. You must be very proud of them.

The Don't Tread on me thing is too funny.

LOL! Yes they are both so very amazing! I love them so much, but feel bad that I don't have the strength they have; I'm usually the strongest one of all!

Our son just returned from lunch with WH. He said WH didn't mention the exposure letter at all. WH was extra nice to me. Weird.

Okay...this is weird. I knew WH was being extra nice. Not lovey-dovey, but nice; which is weird for him lately. He brought my son home from lunch and my son handed me a bag with ToGo boxes; I figured it was leftovers. Come to find out my WH had bought me lunch too; Chicken Alfredo w/Garlic bread. He also told me to go onto our cell phone plan and order a new phone for myself. Is he feeling guilty? Is the Plan A and exposure working? Is he up to something? Sorry, I just don't have tons of trust right now...

IMO, you (and your son) shocked the hell out of him by standing up for yourselves. I truly think that people are just so used to everyone else NOT standing up or saying anything that, when they do, it just throws them for a loop. So...it kind of makes him look at you with new eyes. Maybe it's him questioning his actions, maybe it's a kernel of respect, or maybe it's fear and wondering what else you're going to do to him. You'll drive yourself crazy trying to figure it out. Just keep going strong and fighting the good war.

Thanks Cat, I will! It was also weird because he asked me if I was okay AND looked me in the eyes whaen he asked it. I didn't know what to say I was shocked! My first instinct was to say, Heck no, jerkface! But I didn't. I kept thinking of this site, but my mind went blank, so I just smiled. I walked back to my car; I had been cleaning it when he showed up, then he had our son call me back to the car (they were sitting in it ready to pull away) to ask me another question; something about a pocketknife and how he needed it for protection while he was walking the dog. I found it funny because the dog is a giant English hound that is bred to hunt bears and mountain lions and would surely be much more protection that a little pocket knife. But I told him if I came across it, I'd be sure to set it aside for him. Did I do okay?

Sounds great. Oh, and walking away without answering...priceless! Excellent choice. Him looking at you like that, he's seeing you with new eyes. You are NOT what he THOUGHT you were (a pushover); now he's wondering if he underestimated you, i.e. if it's YOU he needs to be thinking of.

Of course, that doesn't mean he's changing his mind. But the things you are doing may definitely be helping.

Good! I am finally getting some strength and feel I may be headed down the right path. Thanks Catperson!

What do you think of my idea for a follow up letter from me. I would shed light on the truth about myself, since my WH is justifying his behavior by either lying or exaggerating the truth. Those who don't know me just believe it. The other thing that the P.I. told me was that if I expose out of state it is doubtful that the courts would pursue, but that since he has a lawyer here, she may. I know our son didn't write All of her friends or coworkers and I also know of some friends of his that I could still find on FB. I already exposed to one of them; his Marine Corps roommate when we first met.

Should I wait until the papers are signed next week? If his lawyer takes me to court I stand to get less than his offers...There are two... First offer: He pays all my bills for a year; including the house payment, we try to sell the house (I get half of any profit); if it doesn't sell then I can take over the house if I want, he pays my car and gives me $350 for food and gas a month. Second offer...He pays all the bills for two months; I move out of the house, he gives me 25G cash, pays my car off, and we split profit on the house...but I have to pay the rest of my bills for the remainder of the year.

It's hard, I'm in my senior year of college, have no job, the house reminds me of him; which makes it hard.

His lawyer is chomping at the bit to go to court as opposed to mediation, so I think if I sent the letter before we sign, it would mess up any offer.

Also. HW says he may not have a job in two months; I'm assuming because he's moving to Illinois to be with OW. The 25G is looking pretty good because of that, although I don't know where he is getting the $ from. I know our finances and I KNOW he doesn't typically have access to that kind of $.

That's really out of my league. I'd wait to see if others chime in tomorrow. What exactly is the purpose of the letter? Who would you send it to?

The people that Our son missed. The purpose is to shed light on the truth.

Like I said, I'm pretty sure he's been telling his friends bad things about me that aren't true in order to justify his infidelity and the divorce. I really think he's even starting to believe it himself. I found out that he was telling them those things because he started saying them to me and we both know they aren't true; although I think he may be beginning to believe his own lies now. I only guess that was his "cover story" to his friends as to why he's cheating and divorcing me so that they'd feel sorry for him and be accepting of it all.

I wrote him and told him I didn't appreciate him saying those lies about me to his friends. I wasn't certain he had at first until he wrote back saying that he couldn't believe I had hacked his FB account; I hadn't. He has me blocked.

So, I feel like he is being supported because they don't know the truth. Maybe it's not a good move, maybe it's dumb. I already have told his family. They are all supporting me, but he has shut them out too.

Do you think exposure isolates them both and brings them closer together?

I guess I'd say that, now that your son has started the exposure (that you should have done), you may as well finish it. I would make the letter VERY short, though, VERY matter of fact, nothing about making yourself look good.

"My H has been having an affair with Biotch and is now justifying it by saying I 'caused' him to do it. I am trying to save my marriage and am asking you to help me save our family by not condoning their actions."

I know I should have, but am also concerned about the future of our son and I. I was scared to..our son overheard me telling my mom and did it himself. I feel bad, but I also saw an effect. I know I need to finish and will use your suggestion. I'm so tired of the games!

I'm feeling worse today. I know I shouldn't let WH affect me. I guess I'm just frustrated. When I saw WH on Sunday he had been away from his BFF for three days and was feeling sentimental. His BFF has been trying to break us up for years; my husband even told me that. But, now it's Monday...their desks are right beside each other and the WH is now being an A**H***. And when he's not with BFF, he's making trips back to see the OW. I'm pretty certain that the H inside him still loves me, but after all the lies and half truths he has told everyone who is his support, how can I break through?

Hon, you can't break through. Protect yourself and your wonderful kids.

Make a good life. I'm certain hubby will be back, but have confidence that you will be just fine with, or without him.

Thanks Believer. I just feel like I'm on a crazy rollercoaster; up and down, up and down. I miss him so much and find it so hard to make that go away.

UGH! WH being an even worse jerk today! He mentioned the exposure again and was very angry, maybe there was more fallout? He now wants to go back on our Marital Settlement Agreement and is trying to threaten that if I don't agree to his lawyers terms, then she will go to court and throw our son and I onto the street. He's saying that he always paid all the bill and that I'm being selfish and manipulative; but it's my understanding that the money is community money when you are married. He also said that if I really loved him I'd want him to be happy. LOL! Yea, okay, "I love you so much that it's okay that you have been having an affair and are destroying our family,as long as it makes you happy honey!"

I stayed calm and kind, but the less I reacted to his BS, the angrier he became. I sure hope I'm doing this right. I feel like I'm risking a lot, and for a possible gooseegg.

He also said that if I don't agree with his lawyers terms then we will go to court and..."then my attempt to maybe remain friends is revoked."

OH NO! NOT THAT! ANYTHING BUT THAT!

How will you ever survive if he withdraws being your friend?!

Oh the agony!

LMAO!! Yes Cat, that is what I thought!

I'm having kind of a hard time dealing with not making any SD's. We are going through divorce mediation and have agreed to two sererate agreements on two seperate occasions. Each time his lawyer will step in and rewrite the agreement so that it is nowhere close to resembling our agreement.

This last time, I haven't even seen it, but I guarantee if she wrote it; instead of the mediator, I won't like it. My WH says that we will go to mediation again, but I will have to choose one of his lawyers agreements. I said NO WAY! To me those agreements are lists of demands and not agreements at all.

So, now he says I'm being selfish.

How do you avoid selfish demands when you're just trying to ensure it is fair? I don't want a divorce and feel it is being shoved down my throat, and now the lawyers so called agreement too! Ugh!

I emailed WH today at work; he normally doesn't work Fridays, but now has to work overtime Fri and Sat so that he can afford two places; poor baby! I asked him how his day was going. His response..."Alright, I just love to work!"

Don't cave in. WH is agreeing with the media to save face then uses his lawyer to get what he wants. The cowards way.

My WH came today to take DS to the movies. I had been feeling so strong and motivated, but am really hurting now after seeing him. He hugged and kissed DS goodbye and told him he loved him and then waved to me and said "bye".

It just hurts so much. I'm kind of used to being away from him because he was deployed, but then I could always look forward to his coming home and loving me. Now he waves.

It was very hard to be strong while he was gone; I missed him so much. But then there was an end date to it all. This feels like it will never end. I miss him and love him so much and feel so helpless.

My WH came today to take DS to the movies. I had been feeling so strong and motivated, but am really hurting now after seeing him. He hugged and kissed DS goodbye and told him he loved him and then waved to me and said "bye".

It just hurts so much. I'm kind of used to being away from him because he was deployed, but then I could always look forward to his coming home and loving me. Now he waves.

It was very hard to be strong while he was gone; I missed him so much. But then there was an end date to it all. This feels like it will never end. I miss him and love him so much and feel so helpless.

I really think I'm messing up here. I went to check my mail (30 min away) in the town where WH now lives. I had some clothes packed for him, so I brought them along to drop on his porch (he was supposed to be at work, or so he told me). I pulled up and his truck was there, so our son said he'd go take the bag to him. He did and also asked WH if he could come in and see the pets that WH had taken. WH said no.

He left a message 20 min later for our son saying that he didn't mean to be rude but that he had been drinking beers and didn't think he should see that. The funny part is that the few days he was home from Iraq before he left forever, he drank like a fish in front of our son. When my WH and I first met, he was a drinking fiend; an alcoholic. We both stopped drinking and didn't drink our whole marriage pretty much(the only exceptions were a toast on New Years and he'd always get trashed when he'd go out of town for business; so badly in fact that he'd be sick in bed for days and we'd have to buy him a new plane ticket and extra nights in the hotel to recover).

Our son was so hurt that he has been crying ever since and praying in front of the Christmas tree (no I haven't taken it down yet. Christmas was sad and I keep thinking we will get over this and can feel the spirit; I'm losing hope)

Also my step daughter texted me and told me how much she missed me and how she can't handle this divorce.

Watching my son sob for hours and my step daughters texts led me to email my husband a very emotional email telling him how our family was worth saving and telling him how much we all loved him and missed him so much and how much we appreciated him.

I now think that may have been a mistake. I have been so calm and cool; at least while he is around, and then I blow it by pouring my heart out.

What now?

I've been doing Plan A, but I keep messing up. I think it's because it has all happened so fast. The time between Dday and being served D papers was less than a month. It's extra hard because he had been gone for so long prior to all of this.

I want to go plan B, but can't hardly bear the thought. First of all I want to have had a strong plan A; which I always mess up somehow. Secondly, I'm scared I won't ever see him again; he's quitting his job and moving across country to be with OW. Thirdly, I have to talk to him because of the divorce mediation.

Any thoughts? It's hopeless, huh.

EAM, it's never hopeless. Keep in mind that most affairs die under their own weight. Plan A is geared toward hastening that end. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. No guarantees.

Plan B is about being loving to yourself. The emotional violence caused by an affair can cause physical illness as well as psychological damage. Plan B is about healing yourself. Only when you are healed can your marriage be rebuilt, anyway.

And if your husband never returns, Plan B has prepared you for life without him. Believe it or not, Plan B is a win-win situation.

Mess up a Plan A? You haven't seen a messed up Plan A until you read mine (in signature block). I had less than a week to implement Plan A, and I didn't have the first clue.

What comes out of this is the knowledge that you did your best. No matter what. It's not about messing up, it's about trying. If you tried hard and gave it your best, then you can take comfort in knowing that you did what you could. It's like what the old coach said to his players: If you have anything left when you come off the field, why didn't you give it your all?

I know I'm not the best at giving advice. My Plan A sucked. My Plan B is near perfect. And I'm 99.999% certain divorce is a short way up the road. And I'm OK with that. Because I gave it a shot. I tried to see if I could save my marriage. I left it all on the field.

Be strong, EAM. Whatever happens, you will survive. And you'll be a better person no matter how low your husband sinks.

Thanks Fred! I feel like I had zero time to do plan A. I foud this site way too late. It's all been so quick. My Dday was 6 days after yours and I got divorce papers before you hit plan B, so it is all so shocking to me. My husband was my very best friend.

I could maybe deal with, "I don't love you anymore", but he says, "I never loved you" for six years? It hurts so much. It was so hard for me to fully trust anyone, but i put all my trust in him.

I guess I'm just so afraid I'll never be able to love again; to trust again.

Yep, I was right. It was a mistake. I wrote WH telling him our marriage is worth saving and he wrote back every cruel thing he could think. He knows me so well and knows how to hurt me. It cuts like a knife through my already broken heart. I really am sad but I am feeling such hate for him now. He's saying he's going to throw me and our son on the street and we'll be lucky if we get our clothes.

I'm giving up. It hurts too much to love someone who doesn't love you back. Just a few months ago I was his whole world. I can't take the pain anymore.

Affairs turn some of the most loving people into the most horrid examples of sub-humanity imaginable. Knowing EXACTLY what you're going through only allows me to empathize and send you a virtual hug.


{{{{{{ ExpectsAMiracle }}}}}}

Don't worry all, I won't post here again. I wish you all the best of luck!

Does he have parents, aunts, uncles, and cousins to whom you can pass along his email?

"Hi all, I just wanted to let you guys know what's been going on in our lives. Here's the latest:
"

What are you talking about?

Please don't stop posting. We are hear to listen and help where we can, even if it is just encouragement.

I think that his threats are not him talking. He has either been goaded into saying that or he is having a bad time and taking it out on you, in the way he knows how.

I know it's easy for me to say, but try not to think too much about what he wrote. Forward the e-mail onto people to let them know what you are dealing with and then file it away.

TM

Thanks Cat. I did that, although I only have his brothers email. His mom and dad don't have one.

It's just so frustrating. I wish I had somewhere else to turn, but my husband ensured that he destroyed all my friendships and moved me up here in the middle of nowhere.Yes it's beautiful here. But... What once seemed like paradise, now seems like hell. I'm so isolated. I messed up and wrote him an email saying our marriage was worth saving. He wrote back saying every mean thing imaginable. I'm doing my best to be strong, but it's so hard.

Stop contacting him. If he wants to, he knows where you are. That way, you don't put yourself up to be hurt.

It doesn't have to be Plan B but can lead into that if you want. Not contacting him will help take your mind off him and focus on yourself - it worked for me.

Thanks Travel; that is great advice. Boy what a day! WH and his lawyer with more threats. WH finally caves and is supposedly giving me my way in the settlement. We'll see... But the best part of the day was the phone call I got from OWXH. How enlightening! I had a little doubt as to if it were her or not; all doubts are now gone! OWXH confirmed for certain. Said their D was final mid-Nov. Says he's not sure if my WH was the reason for the D or not. Is very upset and very concerned for his kids who he says will be living with my WH. I explained what WH had done to our son and he is now even more concerned. I explained that I learned from WH family that he had cheated our whole marriage. I also explained that WH XW was constantly after him and she is a prostitute. We both agreed to keep our coorespondence a secret and he said i could call anytime.

At what point does one decide that enough is enough? The kinder I am to him the madder he gets. He has been giving me expensive gifts too; which I mistook for care (really I think it's guilt). I still love him and don't want to hurt him, but I also can't bear the thought that he's going to go play house with the OW. Should I wait a while and see if the affair fizzles? He has been overtly cruel to me and to our son and I really feel I'm losing my niceness. I could use a niceness pep talk.

I think you need an "un-niceness" pep talk.

It's insanity to respond with patience to this kind of abuse.

Silence is much more effective.

And an intermediary.

Yesterday would have been a good time to stop being "nice".

Nice is something you have my permission to be and do FOR YOURSELF. And being nice to you means cutting off contact for people who don't know how to play nice in the sandbox yet.

Thanks Kayla, yea nice is not the best plan right now. What I'm saying I guess is that I feel a strong urge to be mean. I'm trying so hard to be patient, but it's running very thin.I know as I feel it would only give him more justification for his actions.

You have information that could land him in prison, and you think using it would be vengeful?

It's irresponsible to not bring that information forward. He needs to feel the consequences of his actions.

Expects I held on for over two years. I was in Plan B for almost a year. There was NOTHING that gave me any hope. He was just GONE.

I had to simply give him to G-d and trust the process. Along the way, taking care of myself, protecting my children and finances. I tried to give up many times, but then I would just be still and listen to G-d.

Trust HIM. He will walk you through this.

Kamarose, you're probably right. He has broken all confidence i've ever given him. Yes, I'd say I'm feeling a angry, lol!Vengeful? That's just not me typically, so maybe it does bother me some; the thought. I still love my husband. Geez, what to do? I don't want to be like him.

I know if I could remove BFF in time, I maty have a chance with WH. He feels sad a lot and tells me he doesn't really want to do this. I think his BFF is right in his ear telling him to do it. So frustrating!

I'm thinking I'll just let Karma get them.

Queenie. You are always inspiring! I've been struggling with my faith a lot. It's very hard because WH will be moving to the Midwest (I'm on the west coast) in a few months. He's quitting his govt. job and moving in with OW; probably into the home she won in D-court from her XH.I feel I'm being left in the dust. I do feel blessed that OW's XH called me. It was like needle in a haystack; he has a very common name. I searched him and picked a number and called; no answer. He has called me back many times in the last few days and never said anything until today. He knew exactly who I was and was surprised that I didn't know for sure about WH and OW.

I've been thinking of more info I could give OWXH on WH. I'm wondering if maybe I give enough dirt, he will attempt to get the kids out of the house if WH moves in. What do you all think?

I'm just thinking that maybe if OW feels like she may lose her kids, the affair may not look so grand. Just a few of the other things I thought I may relay to OWXH is that WH got 13 year old DD drunk this summer; tried to get 10 year old DS drunk too but he refused, WH is an alcoholic (didn't drink during our marriage; with exception to a few times when he went on business trips, and since the whole Iraq thing) and is drinking constantly now, I feel WH may have PTSD and is already on a federal watch list. I know this isn't really plan A stuff. Maybe I'm reaching for straws?

I'm having the hardest time on this rollercoaster of emotions. I go between such anger, rage, animosity, and heartwrenching grief, saddness, depression and helplessness. Is this normal? I feel like I'm going insane!

Of course all of those emotions are normal. I can go through all of those emotions in minutes. Hang in there.

Thanks Scotland. It's very hard. Yesterday I found out for certain who the OW is and in the same day my WH attorney told him he can't speak to me until the D is final. I feel like all I can do is wait for my marriage to end. It sucks so much! I know they think they are in love. It hurts so much. I've loved him for six years. I can't stand this. How do you all keep yourselves level? I go between the urge to let the truth be known; which will destroy his life, and loving and missing him. UGH!

I am flooded with the happy memories and it hurts (especially through the holidays, knowing he was with her). So, I try to focus on the negative. I get mad. Is there no in between? How can I maintain a balance? So I can be somewhat sane. I'm usually very level headed; but this whole thing was such a shock, it has thrown me into a tizzy.

Do whatever you can do to make the OW's life difficult. She wants to replace her H with YOURS, and vice versa.

I have never been a jealous person, and stupidly always trusted him even after the affair I knew about. So when he told me about the D and told me it was my fault, I believed him. I cried forever wondering what I had done. I now realize that there were EN's I wasn't fulfilling. But, even after I was 99.9% sure it was an affair, part of me didn't want to believe it. Not my husband, he loves me so much (yeah, right?). And it hurt even more when I learned he was telling everyone I had an affair.
I started feeling guilty about our friend who hit on me, even though I told him no and had encouraged him to save his marriage; which he did. I kept running it all through my mind wondering if I had done anything wrong. The only thing I could think of was trusting the friend not to hit on me; I never should have gotten myself into that place, but the guy was really like family. I just don't feel I can compete with the OW. She just completed her D, has a house and probably alimony and child support. Of course my WH will be so happy to not have to work and just live in her home and be taken care of. I'm in my senior year of college and have no income; all at my H urging. He's leaving me in the dust with major debt from the loans we agreed together we could pay back with a two income household. Now I'm a single mom. I'm in a much worse position than I was when we met. I'm very scared and very hurt.

Thanks Karmarose. The things I have on WH are very big. I'm just hesitant to push the button. I feel I'll never get him back if I do. That's why I was thinking of telling OWXH all the dirt I know on WH in hopes that he can battle from there as he is right there and I am across country.

I feel like I'm starting this whole thing all over again because now I know FOR SURE! Part of me was in denial before. It was so hard being lied to and blamed, but it is also very hard to know and envision it in my mind. Will this pain ever end, ever?

So by making her life difficult..that would include telling her EX all the dirt on WH, right? Should I contact her? Should I send her family the email my WH sent me talking about how he likes hookers and how his XW is a hooker?

Well there isn't a lot that I know in this sitch. The only advice that I do have for you is about OW. DO NOT CONTACT OW. It really isn't worth it.

Thanks Scotland. I won't.

BTW Scotland, I feel you Anniverary pain. I got D papers on ours

Geez, Scotland and you're a Sagitarrius too? I'm assuming by your name you're Scottish; me too. Sorry just noticing the similarities. Thanks again!

Well, I am only 1/2 scottish. The other half is Italian and Serbian so imagine the arguments I can have with myself HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I only used the name Scotland because I am reading a series of books called Outlander by Diana Gabaldon and I just LOVE them. It takes place in Scotland. Then I needed a name on here that could not be found on a google search since my original name is very recognizable. My WH and the universe decided to do things to me on memorable days, I guess it was so I would never forget. POSOW and my best friend have the same name, the day I got the phone call from his work was my best friend's son's birthday, the day I caught WH at POSOW's house was the first day we had earth hour, ILYBNILWY speech on our anniversary and then he stopped telling me that he loved me on my sister's birthday. That is why I went in to Plan B on MY BIRTHDAY, I wanted to take my power back

Hang in there.

I'm hanging in! I'm half Scottish too, the other half Norwegian. I guess we both have a lot of warrior blood in out veins, huh? Wow, you sure have had some awful things happen on your memorable days. Moreso than I. I was served D papers on our Anniversary; a few days later was my 40th Bday, then I found out who OW was on Christmas. I need to get my power back too! Thanks Scotland!

Should I continue to write to WH even though his lawyer won't let him communicate back? Lawyer had said she was going to "take me down" in court, saying that mediation had broken down. WH and I had agreed to a settlement written up by the impartial mediator, but his lawyer didn't like it and threatened WH that she'd take his retainer and not represent him if he didn't let her do it her way. She wrote a new agreement. My WH told me he didn't like it and liked ours better. Right before she submitted her new "agreement" both WH and I emailed the mediator and said that we agreed to our agreement. I wrote back to her saying that it had not broken down at all, told her I had written proff that he didn't want her agreement but that she had coersed him into letting her have her way, I also sent her copies of the emails showing that he agreed to ours proving that mediation hadn't broken down. Oh yeah, when WH and I had agreed on our settlement, the mediator (a retired judge) called WH attorney and got her word that she wouldn't pursue the matter in court. Now she's trying to find a way around that by saying that mediation broke down. This is why she has instructed WH he can't talk to me anymore. Supposedly, she is now writing our new "cash" agreement up. I said I'd sign if it is what WH and I agreed upon; we will see. I think he's getting $$$ for all this from OW. Maybe she got it from her D settlement and is now financing WH's D? I know our finances and WH doesn't have that sort of $$. He also fluctuates between saying he's throwing us onto the street and being very cruel and acting sad and giving DS and I expensive gifts; probably to ease his guilt. It's all so confusing and sickening really.

Okay, well I think I really need help. I'm afraid WH may report me for having the items in this residence. He took part of them, but part are still here. I really wouldn't put it past him what with all the other things he's done. I guess I waited too long for plan B. I still love him, but the hatred is coming so quickly. What do I do?

Yep, pretty darn sure OW is financing our D. WH has come up with very large sums of $$$, and says he will come up with more for the cash settlement. He couldn't afford to divorce me if it wasn't for her financing. I think what happened was that he got home from Iraq and was afraid to go back. When he went to the midwest he didn't want to tell his guy buddies that he was afraid, so he started saying all kinds of lies about me. They got him drunk and stoned (he told me) and he doesn't normally do either; he's an alcoholic. They probably encouraged him to go cheat. He did; typical for him drunk. OW just got out of her marriage and decided to replace her H with mine. She heard his sob story and offered to finance D for him. Because when he finally came home he kept saying over and over that he didn't want to do the D, but he felt he had no choice. I think she had already given him the money and he had made promises to her and had spent a lot of it. To not get the D would prove that all he had said about me were lies. What really kilss me is that he lied to me about it and made me feel like it was my fault. Trying to prove it wasn't is what got me into the circumstance when I was raped. I'm not sure what to do, I'm gettting angrier and angrier and it's mixed with all the pain.

Maybe he was afraid too that if he gave the $$$ back and told her that he was going to stay with me, she'd get mad and tell me he cheated. He may have worried I'd D him anyway and then he'd be screwed without money for a defense. I was very close to leaving him this summer after the email about the girl he worked with. I was over it when he came back, but he may have been worried.

Try not to let your thoughts go to those places. All the conjecturing and guessing in the world won't put you in a better place. Don't wonder why he is doing things and suppose OW is running the show. She runs the show if he is agreeable to letting her.

Do not deal with anything but what is on your plate in front of you at any juncture.

Also, can you take a trip somewhere with your son to get a change of scenery at all? Just a couple days to clear your head and focus on the world out there?

Try to not let anger start to rule you or the show. Anger is bad news. It is outacontrol and does no good.

Thanks Reading, I know the anger is bad, but it's a refreshing change from the crying. Unfortunately, I'm back to crying again. I don't want to hurt him, but feel like I'm in a corner and being attacked while I'm already so injured. I'm afraid if I don't get on the offensive, another attack will soon come. I just can't imagine how someone could do this. Do they just think the kids are all going to be overjoyed? I'm like a second mom to his daughter; it took years for that to happen. My H is the only dad my son ever knew. And the OW has kids. Now my WH is moving in with OW and her kids and will have his daughter and my son visit. Just blending his daughter and my son was difficult. I'm not sire what they are thinking, and I know my son and step daughter are furious, I can't imagine her kids being happy either.

I'm a little confused on how to proceed. I have been feeling so helpless. I couldn't expose since I wasn't 100% sure who the OW was. I have gone between good plan A, and reacting to WH unending cruelty; he actually fluctuates between being sweet to the point where I almost feel; for a split second, this is all a big nightmare, and being very cruel and mean. I now know who the OW is for sure. I don't have physical evidence, but I know for certain.

I want to expose to everyone, but am awaiting my marriage settlement agreement which should be here on Monday. My WH has offered me a cash deal and has told me he is quitting his job and moving to the midwest (guess who lives there?). He will be going to school (living off OW), so if I go to court and am awarded alimony, it isn't something I can depend on.

I have been told by many to protect my finances; although even the cash deal will leave me in a bad place financially. I do feel it will be worse if I get alimony and he quits his job.

Do I wait til I sign the papers to expose? If I expose before, he could withdraw the cash offer.

He's not allowed to speak to me. I'm really trying to focus and do a good plan A before doing plan B. I feel like my inability to find proof until now has been so detremental to my plan A. Also, it was a shotgun divorce; it went from I only love you to...we are getting divorced and I got the papers 3 weeks later. I'm praying and trying my best not to panic and be frantic, but it has been very difficult.

Any advice on plan A and when to expose is much appreciated!

I need help with the exposure letter. Most of the people I'm writing don't know me at all. WH has said multiple false things to justify the affair and divorce; I cheated, I spent all the money, He never loved me or hasn't in years. None of these are true and i have proof. Should I include the proof in the letter? Thos who know me are certain it isn't true, those who don't just beleive whatever WH says.

EAM, I suggest using a "business form" type of letter: Polite, to the point, factual. For example, when I wrote to OMW, I simply wrote, in part:

"The purpose of this letter is to inform you that your husband, ______ is having an affair with my wife, _________. I do not wish to become involved in your marital issues, I simply wish to end this affair and bring my wife back to the marriage."

Rather than show the proof, simply state that you have incontrovertible proof that is sufficient to convince any judge. You do not need to say what this proof is, or how you got it. It's none of their business. If they are going to believe you this should be enough. If they aren't, no amount of proof would convince them, anyway.

Thanks Fred! I have already spoken to OW very recent XH; he is beside himself, has never been with another woman ever, married for 19 yrs, doesn't feel there is anything he can do, doesn't want ot be with someone he can't trust. I wonder if I should refer him here, he's in so much pain and I can tell he still loves her; he just feels helpless (we all know that feeling, right?). He says she tells him about my H all the time, but he can't bear hearing it and cuts her off.

The people I am exposing to are WH and OW's lifelong friends. How would they believe me over WH w/o some kind of proof?

EAM, tell OWH to come here and start his own thread.

I'll try. I think he's giving up.

He's done and doesn't want to try.

As they say in A.A.: You can carry the message, but you can't carry the mess.

You gave it a try. You can't do any more than that.

Yea, I know. He's concerned that if XW finds out we are talking it will make their relationship worse; he feels it important to have a good relationship for the kids.

You know, on the surface that's a pretty funny statement: "it will make their relationship worse." They're divorced. They didn't get that way because they had the best of relationships.

But it's not you part to get embroiled in someone else's dysfunctional relationship. I continue to scratch my head at who allies themselves with the betrayed spouse and who doesn't.

Yea, that's kind of how I felt. Geez, I'm going through a D and have been raped and even I am not giving up the fight; I still have some left. I saw a friend of ours try to throw in the towel. I begged him not to give up because I'd hate for anyone to feel the pain I'm going through; he hesitantly agreed and with a lot of struggle saved his marriage.

I'm pretty upset right now...DS (10) just told me that last time he went out with WH, WH called me an "evil skank". I'm really trying hard to blow it off, but it really makes me angry..

Anyway, I wrote an exposure letter, maybe it's too long, but I used your template to write it. What do you think??

I�m writing to inform you that my WH is having an affair with OW, which has resulted in divorce proceedings. I waited faithfully for my husband to return from Iraq for nearly a year; we both professed our love for each other many times a day; every day, even the day before he returned he told me how excited he was to see me, and how much he loved and missed me. He was home for a few days then went to Illinois for a friends� wedding (it was very hard to see him go after waiting so long for him) and never came back. I received a voicemail from WH letting me know we were getting divorced and received the divorce papers less than a month later on our Anniversary. Both myself and our children are devastated beyond belief. WH has told many people lies about me in order to justify his infidelity; and I have incontrovertible proof to the contrary. I�m not a perfect wife, nor do I think anyone is, but I have always tried to be the best wife, I�ve loved him, and always been faithful and kind. He is my best friend, my true love, and all my heart. I love both he and our family with all my heart and soul and want our marriage to work. This affair is the reason for the divorce, and is destroying our marriage and family. I hope that if you have any influence over my husband or OW, you would stand against this affair and stand for the institution of marriage and for fidelity. God bless, BS

Is it even possible to save my marriage after the divorce papers are signed? Should I just be trying to regain what little dignity I have left? Probably half these people I'm sending this to have already heard WH sob story of lies about me and have accepted this affair.

I personally know a couple on MB who D during his A, and remaried a few months ago.

So anything is possible? Did he file for D? How long did it take for the affair to end?

I dont remember the details, I'll have to ask her, but from memory he filed and the A lasted the standard 2 years or there abouts.

She did say it was her removing herself from all that was going on and totally focusing on herself that helped later on.

Oh man 2 years! I'm afraid they'll be married by then. What a total nightmare! I thought once the secrecy wore off, the affair fizzled out. I've already missed my H for a year, now i may have to wait 2 more years for just the slight chance?

Just some possible suggestions - Lil

I�m writing to inform you that my WH is having an affair with OW. which has resulted in divorce proceedings.

I waited faithfully for During the close to a year my husband to return from was in Iraq for nearly a year; we both professed our love for each other many times a day; every day, even the day before he returned he told me how excited he was to see me, and how much he loved and missed me.

He was home for a few days then went to A few days after returning home he went to Illinois for a friends� wedding. It was very hard to see him go after waiting so long for him. and never came back. I received a voicemail from WH letting me know informing me we were getting divorced and received the divorce papers less than a month later on our Anniversary. Both myself and our children This has are devastated our children and I beyond belief.

WH has told many people lies about me in order to justify his infidelity; and however I have incontrovertible proof to the contrary. and am more than happy to share it

I�m not a perfect wife, nor do I think anyone is, but I have always tried to be the best wife, I�ve loved him, and always been faithful and kind. He is has been my best friend, my true love, and all my heart. for xxx years I love both he and our family with all my heart and soul and want our marriage to work. and am willing to put in the effort to remedy any issues

This affair is the sole reason for the divorce, and is destroying our marriage and family. I hope that if you have any influence over my husband or OW, you would stand against this affair and stand for the institution of marriage and for fidelity.

God bless, BS

Thanks Lil! Very good editing! I will change it accordingly.

I'm wondering what effect if any this exposure will have. I'm pretty sure all thier close friends have heard thier rationalization. I don't know these people. Aren't they all just going to say, "she's crazy!"??

And if it does have an effect, won't it push them closer together, as they may feel like they are both victims of mean ol' me?

Hi EAM-


Lil sent me a message about your situation. I'll have to catch up on your thread to know the details of what you are dealing with, but it is true, I am the one Lil mentioned, whose M was restored after the D.

My FXH's EA became a PA when we were separated-but I didn't find out until a month after our D was final. Even though we were D, I exposed the A to the OW's family-which killed the A. It still took over a year and a half before my FXH came out of his fog and we were able to reconcile. I never thought it would happen.

While we were D, I still loved him, but I knew I needed to have boundaries with him. I was always polite with him-we still had one son to raise together, but I told him I wouldn't be "his friend" because I didn't think it was possible to be friends with someone I had been naked with-many times. He got what I meant.

I moved forward in my life. I went back to school and got my Administrator's Certification. I did a triathlon. I went on a retreat for spiritual renewal and was able to forgive. Yet, almost two years after the D, I still loved him. It wasn't until I gave God my love for my FXH, even if it meant that I would hurt because my FXH moved on to someone else, that my heart was ready for what God had planned.

Just a month later, my FXH came to pick up our YS for the week-end. He was sitting in my room, telling me what he planned to do with our YS and when he would bring our YS home, while I was tying my shoes, when he said "I'm lost without you." I was NOT expecting that...

I did finish tying my shoes and he did take our YS out to a movie and lunch, but after that, we started a conversation which began a miracle that I never thought possible.

We remarried 25 years to the day of our first M.

Wow Johnstwin! That is incredible; it gives me some hope. I have given the love for my H to God. I have exposed to WH family, but WH avoids them like the plague; I think he knows they disapprove. I recently found out for sure who it is and will now expose to all her Facebook friends. The proof I have though is from OW XH (very recently divorced) and we think it may be due to this affair. My WH plans on quitting his job and moving cross country to be with OW, to live with OW. OW XH says it's pretty serious and not just a fling. I am very devastated, so is OW XH. I'm wondering what to do if any of OW friends ask for proof of the affair...I promised OW XH I wouldn't tell anyone we communicate.

Oh and OW XH tells me that OW talks to him about how wonderful my H is. It makes me want to barf! Who does she think she is?

She thinks she's God's gift to men!

Oh, and her head's up her wazoo. You're trying to see her point of view but you can't because you can't get your head that far up there.

LOL! True...I think my exposure will take her down a few notches...I hope anyway, lots of people on her FB from her job. I think most don't know my WH, but they probably know what she just did to her H of 19 years. It's not a giant town either, so surely it will spread like wildfire. She's got a lot of relatives on there too, looks like grandparents, aunts, uncles, parents.

Exposure WILL take her down a few notches. You're in the grips of a nuclear exposure that will be so massive (with all her relatives! So many!!!) it'll be reminiscent of Chernobyl.

Um yeah, I'm sure they aren't all too happy that she ran out on her 19 year marriage; it was her idea, not his. And now this...I think the puzzle will fit together nicely in thier heads. Not good enough to ruin her own marriage and kids, but she had to ruin mine too. I still can't believe how evil it is for her to talk to her XH about my H; the ink on thier D papers is still drying, he was in total shock like me; all was fine one day and the next day D papers.

Do what you can to rip WS/OW's world apart. Exposure is your best weapon.

But you know that already! Prepare for a load of venom the size of Africa to hit you once you do!

I was gonna say...I bet my WH will come unglued. I'm going to be sure we have both signed the mediation papers first; he's offering me 25G cash (I'm pretty sure money she got from her D), and to pay of my car 12G. He doesn't have that kind of cash and her XH said she got a fair sized settlement. That really chaps my hide too; not only is she sleeping with his, but she's paying for our D. He wouldn't do it if she didn't I'm sure, He thinks he got himself a sugar momma, but XH said the $$$ will run out fast. She keeps bragging what a great job my H has, except he's quitting it to live off of her.

Karma, What venom did you get when you exposed? Names, yelling and such. I'm kind of afraid he'll come after me. Iraq made him a bit looney. He was so convinced I'd cheat while he was over there, he wrote me an email saying he'd take any guy who touched me out from 500yds. Funny, I was faithful for ten months, and it took him a few days to turn the EA physical.

I should send OW a bag for her to wear over her head with two little eye holes, so she can hide herself from the shame. Maybe we should bring back the scarlet letter, that way we all know which ones to look out for.

I think I'd just die of shame if I ever slept with a married man and destroyed a family and my grabdparents found out.

JT, no matter how many times I read that bit about the bedroom, I still get blown away.

EAM, LOL to OW financing your D. I would take the money with a great deal of pleasure myself, after making sure thee are no legal grounds for her to get it back. One day when the A is over and WH is open to R, you'll get a kick out of it.

As far as exposure venom; I got yelled at and told "thats it, your've done it now" and some nasty massages from PQ, then no speak-ies from Flick for 2 days. Then things went back to normal. Big deal, buy some ice cream and rent some movies, or go visit friends and wait for it to wash over. No one can sustain that level of fake and guilty anger for long.

So, Johnstwin, you didn't do a plan B?

LIL, Yea, I'll take the money. I think she's an idiot to give it to him. He's quitting his good govt jobn and is going to sponge off of her; I wonder how long she'll like that? He's already used a lot of the money she has already given him to buy me and DS and probably DD what I think are "guilt" gifts. A new laptop for me, new cell phones (really nice ones too), a bunch of cash for Christmas gifts for DS. He'll do stuff like that and act all caring, and then switch back to evil man; I mean really evil and cruel to both me and DS. I wonder if OW knows he's buying us stuff w/ money she gave him? I think she is very high maintenance and was spoiled and pampered by her H, so it will be interesting to see what happens when the money runs out and WH quits his job. Reality check?

Strange as this may sound, I got no venom because I have never been married or anything. I have, however, borne witness to many threads where the BS was screamed at, threatened, etc.

Lil is right--the waywards will all say "that's it, I'm done with you, I was going to give it a chance but not now!" or "I will never be able to trust you again!" (How comical!)

It will be very unpleasant.

Do you have contact with the OW?

Oh, I have a deliciously evil idea. Put up pictures on your FB page if you have one, or something like that, of you and the "phone your H bought that OW paid for!"

I'm not well-liked around here for this reason...I am *very* vengeful.

I'm good at vengance, I just don't share it on MB

*insert evil cackle*

Confession in box

OOOOO! Right up my alley Karma! Great mind think alike, eh? I'll do it, although I'm not sure she even looks at my FB. I bet she will once i expose though

LOL Lil! He he he he! I'm really not typically vengeful, but these are extrodinary circumstances. I'm so excited about exposure. I wish I could do it right now, but have to wait for the cash deal to be signed first.

Okay Karma, I wrote in my comment section, "My sweetest husband bought me the coolest new phone! I love it! Thanks so much muffin!". I gotta find my cam and put a pic up next, lol! Maybe I should thank him for the new laptop too! Or should I thank her? JK!

"Thanks so much OW!" (That'll really rile her up!)

That's the only change I suggest...

As in, making it so you are thanking OW instead of H. :P

Did it! LOL!

Thanks Karma, great one!

Hi EAM-

Sorry it took me so long to get back to you-been busy at work (I teach high school and it's the end of the first semester).

I never did go to Plan B because I didn't know that my FXH was actively involved in a PA at the time. My story is a bit different than most with this whole A experience. My FXH's EA seemed very one-sided initially (the STBOW exposed it). He left me about 3 months after it was exposed. 5 weeks after he left, I was diagnosed with breast cancer, had surgery and started chemo. During that time, my OS started college; my YS started high school and my DD got M (she had a civil wedding first, due to my surgery, and a church ceremony about 3 months later).

I did file for separation because I had no idea what my FXH was doing-what choices he was making personally or financially-so I had to protect myself and my kids. In my state, a separation can stay in place for a very long time.

He was the one who initiated the D. He seemed very "different" at our D's wedding (6 months after the initial d-day) and I had a sense that there was "someone" else in his life. I finished chemo and our D was final about 4 days later. It was a month after that when I found out through an "innocent" comment that he made that he and the object of his EA were in a PA together.

They reconnected about the time that my DD got M and then they pursued their PA. I exposed it as soon as I learned about it. (The OW's mom and I were friends-the OW was livingn in another state at that time.) Her family's pressure on her actually killed the A.

So, that was the reason I didn't Plan B. I didn't know and I was somewhat distracted by all that we were going through.

It took a year after the D before I could forgive them both.

It took another year before God was able to work on both our hearts and bring us back together.

During all of it, I kept this verse close to me as I learned what it truly meant.

"I know that plans I have for you" declares the Lord God. "Plans to prosper you and not harm you. Plans to give you a hope and a future." Jer. 29:11. (It's tattooed on my back actually). I learned to trust in God's sovereignty and trust that He did have a plan. My only part in it was to trust that promise and realize that He never said that He would share that plan with me. He wanted my faith to grow.

BTW, my chemo ended one year to the day of D-day. I see it as God turning it into something good (Rom. 8:28).

I hope this helps.

If you want to email me, just let one of the mods know, and they will send me your email. I'd be happy to support you here and through the internet.

Johnstwin, your story is so inspirational, I can't imagine having to go through breast cancer too. I am in awe at your strength! I'm truly amamzed to the point I'm really not sure what to say.

The verses are very insprational. I have really fluctuated in my faith through all this, but know that there must be some purpose and that I really need to trust in God.

Did all this make your marriage stronger? Better?

I'm partly happy and partly sad. Part of me feels hopeless and wants to just give up. The other part of me has so much love for him; the real him, he's not that person now.

I really pray that maybe somehow this whole thing will work out and we can build a better and stronger marriage. It hasn't been perfect; we have both made mistakes.

It hurts that he's giving up everything to move across country to be with her. I waited so long for him to come home. He says if I really love him, that I'll want him to be happy. I feel like that is like someone driving a stake through your heart and then asking you to be thankful for it.

Thank you for all your support and inspiration. I now know that miracles can happen.

EAM, that's just fogbabble. "You want me to be happy don't you? So stop being offended and be happy!"

Thanks Karma! Yep, I thought it really pretty ridiculous myself.

Johnstwin, How do I contact the moderators so they can send you my email?

Yeah and Flick said to me he wanted us to stay friends. My thoughts on that was having the love of your life say they just want to be friends is like having your dog die and your mum say you can still play with it.

It some stage I remember telling him I would be his wife or nothing, don't really recommend that one

Flick moved out of town... he went to care for his dad who was dying. PQ moved to another part of the country. Ironically that helped their relationship to last longer as they could continue with the EA/fantasy aspect, without the inconveniences of the reality of each other interfering. Flick said once that he liked her better when he wasn�t around her, but the fog didn�t let him see how odd that was. I think they only had physical contact about every 2 weeks when he would drive up to see her... after visiting the girls and I. I always felt better about that, like she was getting leftovers.

The scripture that helped me most during the A was
The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much. James 5:16.
I used to say to God that I wasn�t sure exactly how effective or righteous I was but I could do fervent

Hi EAM-

Just click on one of the Moderators at the bottom of the page and their email will come up. You can email them and ask them to send me your email. It's pretty easy.

Hang in there!

I love the scripture!

Isn't that the truth about being friends. I could never be just friends with my husband. Ironic, I guess because he was always my best friend.

Yeah, ultimatums are probably not the best, but I remember not long before H left he told me it would be me or no one ever again. Unfortunately I believed him, knew I had to totally open my heart to him and did; only to get it crushed.

I think that's the deal with my WH and her. They don't see each other much, so it's all fantasy and roses. Yea, wait til I expose it all to her family, coworkers and friends. I think the fiends have already heard the lies and believe them, but the others I think may be waaaay more influential.

Exposure is hard at first, but it does seem to get better. I never did figure out if the repetition makes it flow better or you just become inured to it.

I wrote to PQ's family. My workplace exposure was...umm.. Unsubtle. The rest was more or less word of mouth, excepting his mother who happened to phone me the day after d-day.

LIL, Yea, WH mom has known all the time and has supproted me, but WH knew she would and so he avoids all family.

Thier friends are all people they went to high school with and most don't know me and will likely believe whatever horse-dung is hurled thier way.

The family of hers and coworkers are another story. I believe OW works at a college outreach, her XH I believe is a PhD. in research at the same college, so likely her coworkers and family know what she has just done to her own family and I doubt she'll come out quite as rosy with those folks. Most look older, are married and many are religious.

I think the word of mouth thing will work very well as it is a fairly small town.

It's fummy though because my WH has told so many people these lies that he has begun telling them to me; I think he is starting to believe them himself. I told him I didn't appreciate him telling his friends that I cheated, that he never loved me, that I spent all the money. He then accused me of hacking his FB page. I didn't, I just assumed what he was telling them by what he said to me. I can't believe he is actually believing his own lies.

JOHNSTWIN, I sent you my email through Fireproof.

Cool!

On my way to my email. I'll be back in a few...

Thanks Johnstwin! I'll be here.

I feel like I'm going to explode! I finally got WH's MSA (marital settlement agreement) from his %*&#@ attorney. It reflects nothing close to what we agreed upon. Basically it has me waiving all my rights to the house, retirement, investments for 10G now and 15G more than a year from now. It also has me waiving any future attorney fees to collect any more money from him. He already told me he is quitting his job and moving to the midwest ( obviously with OW). I don't have his phone number, if he quits I won't have his email, or his address. We had agreed to file taxes jointly and he would apply all the money to paying off my car, and he told me privately that he'd pay off the rest ( I just had to trust him, lol), the agreement has us splitting the tax return which will be hefty since we just bought a house. I'm so upset, I have no job, am very isolated, have no friends, am in my senior year of college ( i dropped last term b/c of the grief). He REALLY want to throw us onto the street. I'm so upset. Please can someone calm me down before I totally explode!!!

Calm down. And nail him to the wall. Finish you college, and get a job.

You CAN do this. You should DO THIS.

Karma, Thanks! I'm a mess. I just need to expose and I need someone there when I do and when I get the responses. I feel like it will be putting a nail in the coffin of our marriage.

About to expose. I'm very scared. Could use some support.

Should I go co-workers, family, then friends?

Hi EAM-

I haven't gotten an email yet. You might want to contact a few of the mods. You might try JustUss or Revera-or both.

About your situation: first of all, your WH may be getting coaching from his sleazy lawyer and/or his OW. Plus, he is in the fog of entitlement and selfishness. Just think of the "offer" as one you would get from a used car salesman. He's fishing. You do need some legal help though.

It's good that you are a senior in college. Go to the women's center (or whatever it's called there). They will have resources for you. There are women's groups that have free or low cost legal help in situations like yours. The women's center will have a list with contacts at least.

Also, since your WH has left you, you might qualify for assistance as a "displaced homemaker". It may sound somewhat archaic, but there is help for women who have been "displaced" when their husbands leave. It can't hurt to check it out.

Hang in there!

Thanks JohnsTwin, But I really think he planned it all. The county we used to live in had legal assitance. He told me that he couldn't wait to get me up here aay from everyone. Now I'm so isolated. No legal aid here. I asked the best lawyer around if I could petition the court to have WH pay my legal fees. He said that they rarely do that, and that even if they did, no lawyer would take it w/o a retainer; my WH's lawyer had 2 yrs. experience and her retainer is 4G. My WH cut off all our money, so I'm pretty much helpless. I want to expose, but need some support. I'm very scared.

EAM and JT,
I don't mind being the contact pass along if you want. My email isn't secret

EAM, I am not in the least bit surprised WH is reneging on his offer, its what waywards do. I think you mentioned he is military,is there any avenue of assistance with that at all?

Let us know when you have done the exposure, and remember it might get nasty, but it doesn't last.

Thanks Lil, I got on of the mediators to do it. I tried to expose, but only got so far b/c I had to individually msg each of OW's friends and FB blocked me for too many msgs. I have only received one response so far, it wasn't good. Here it is...


I don't know your husband or OW that well. Nor do I care to be involved in your ordeal but I am sure this message is going to do more damage than good. I can't imagine having a 'loving' wife that would share this information with people not involved in this unfortunate ordeal. Please refrain from including me in any future messages.

Ugh! I just don't know what to do anymore. I can't even expose to everyone.

Hey, that's really not bad. I got a lot worse than that. One woman even said I should be ashamed of myself (for telling the truth, trying to save my marriage????). A lot just said they are so happy together why can't I just accept it and move on?

Don't worry, they don't know you and I have found the friends of OW who support the affair to be pretty moronic so their opinions count for nothing anyway.

Thanks Travel...I went on my other FB acct and am finishing exposure; albeight more slowly so I don't get blocked.


I know what you mean though, what more damage can be done that they haven't already done. He can't imagine a "loving" wife doing this? Really? So, I guess if I really loved my H, I'd just keep my mouth shut and just let them continue this crap? I feel like pulling my hair out! What has society become?

I feel like I'm making things worse by exposing. None of these people even know me. I've been blocked off FB. Why am I in the wrong here? He's my H. I just can't even deal with this anymore. I feel like this will give everyone reason to support the affair and divorce. I'm praying, but have never been in a darker place.

Should I just give up? I have FB'ed almost all OW friends and his. I know thay already have them all snowballed. What now? I'm in so much pain. It's not like friends we have here; dang I don't have any. My H and family were my whole life.All I ever wanted was a family.These are all people thousnads of miles away; they don't know me. why should they believe me? I just miss him so much. I don't know what to do now...

Don't give up but put the situation aside for now. Try not to engage in negative stuff and critically important right now

create a support system where you live.

Go out with our son to events and chat with people. Maybe join some group near you to meet people. Meet people and invite them for coffee or lunch or dinner.
Join a church or something like that. They are great for immediate support of others.

Create a great life for you and your child and release expectations at this point.

Stay hopeful but busy.

You will get through this.

Well done for doing the exposure and pushing on even when it got hard. You can do this and we are all here rooting for you.
That message wasnt so bad, I got a much more venomous one. Also got one from someone who immediatly wrote to my H and reported it, and another who I thought was a friend of the M, copied and pasted the message direct to him and text him to make sure he got it immediatly.

No one likes exposure, and the ones who fuss the most are the ones who are either emeshed in the same mindset, or have had the best and longest snowjob done on them.

If you want help for snail mail exposure letters for those without email, I'll help. I wrote a great one to PQ's parents and posted it the day before I took Flick, and our girls out of the country. PQ had to stew on it for a whole week and boy was she ropable when Flick finally caught up with her again

Lots of people are incredibly ignorant about affairs, Expect. Until they have gone through it, they seem to feel it is a minor inconvenience to a BS and think you should be over it, happy, and moving on in a week or so, just like folks do in those moronic soap operas and in movies.
Additionally, as you have already fiigured out, many of the types who associate with people who cheat are lowlifes , themselves , with values much different than ours. Water seeks its own level. Same with some of the families of cheaters. These cheating types were raised in an atmosphere where this was accepted, in some cases.
You'll get some moronic responses, like you did. Take comfort in seeing that the people assoociating with the OW and your H are not very bright or evolved.

Expect:

Regarding the divorce agreement you were sent, your WH and his [censored] lawyer took the normal negotiation approach which is shoot for the stars and then negotiate down. I guarantee that the lawyer was playing the "devil on the shoulder" role and convinced him to put some of the crap in there.

I haven't read through the entire post, but do you have an attorney? If not, you need to get one now because there are legal rules in all this that if you don't follow will put you at a severe disadvantage.

You are the woman here and YOU have the power in a divorce, not him. You can take this [censored] to the woodshed and shred him to bits if you want. My recommendation is to find a shark lawyer and prepare for battle. Just do your best to keep the kids out of the situation. If he has already talked about moving then he probably doesn't give a crap about the kiddos, so F-him, let him run off to his whore. Make sure you get what is owed to you.

wow, i've never had a post censored before...i didn't think any of that was bad language. You can find every word I used in the Bible.

indarkness,

I just hit quote on your post to see what the 'bad' words you used where. Yup they're in the bible and I am not at all suprised they got censored LOL

Okay, well I got another msg from a coworker of hers saying she didn't know who I was and asked if it was a joke. I told her no, but that I wished it were. I guess that's more positive than the last, right? I still haven't exposed to thier closest friends or the ones who look like party animals. I think they will report me. What to do?

Indarkness, I initally called the best lawyer in my county asking if I could petition the court for legal fees from WH. He said the courts rarely do that nowdays in Cali, and that even if they did no lawyer would take it without a retainer. My WH lawyer has only been practicing for two years and her retainer is 4G. I believe my WH got the $$$ from OW.

EAM: Party animals are idiots and probably pushed him in this direction in the first place. Not sure what use exposure is to them. Full exposure is:

Family
Close Friends (that can influence WS)
OWS (is she married?, if not ignore this)
Your kids
Coworkers (again, that can have an influence)

Beyond this, exposure probably won't hurt or help your cause. Exposure is meant to blow up the affair and make continuation of it more difficult for your WH.

Sometimes exposure works, sometimes it doesn't. In my case, every one and their mother knows but my WW is still continuing the A (and moving out and planning on getting married).

To be honest, it sounds like your WH is moving forward, as my WW is. Have you prepared for a Plan B?

Oh yeah and I got one other response saying to leave her out of my business and that she didn't want to get involved.

Ah! You're in California. So you've got until May 21st, minimum, right? Can you use a credit card for the retainer? Where are you in California because I have the name of a shark lawyer nearby that, thankfully, it doesn't appear I will need to use.

Indarkness, I have exposed to family, coworkers, kids,but only part of the close friends. I think these are the ones who encouraged the A. I am considering exposing to thier wives though; although it may do no good.

Yes, I think my WH is moving forward. I am usually a very kind person; geez I can't even kill a fly, I catch and release outside, but am feeling very vengeful at the moment. I know that's bad and I will just let Karma take over, but I really so upset right now.

Also in the MSA, WH asked that the waiting period be waived; probably so they can marry.. That will really destroy me.

I have no money for a plan B, but then again, I have no money anyway. He took all we had and I think he's trying to starve us our so that I'll accept his lame offer.

Nope, he shut off all credit cards.

Oh, I'm in Plumas county and there is no legal aid here either. The neighboring county we used to live in has it, but not here. I really believe he planned it this way. He lives in the county with the leagl aid, but filed in this one. I'm very remote; not even cell service here.

EAM,

this is my FB exposure letter I sent, not sure if it'll help at all

I would curse, but then it would be censored

I don't think you can legally waive the waiting period, so ignore that. Even so, its only three months away. I mean seriously, he's already living there so who cares anyways.

Him taking all your money is just plain wrong. I'm putting up with a lot of stuff from my WW and I *still* front her money to take care of the kids AND herself, all the time. What a jerk...

What's the retainer you need for your lawyer? Can you get it from your family? You absolutely need an attorney and soon. Your WH doesn't sound like he is going to help you in any way at all.

Just looked up Plumas Co. on a map...smack in the Sierras. Man, I bet it's beautiful there! But yeah, you're in the sticks. I'm in SoCal, north of L.A., warmer here, I imagine, then where you are.

Well, I have very little faimly. My dad died last year. And my aunt. No siblings, except a half brother who took my inheritance. My mom doesn't have the money. I've been down every avenue and swallowed all my pride asking for help. There's just no way. My H isolated me from everone prior to this.

Yes it is beautiful here. Our home is a few minutes from a lake, on top of a hill with a beautiful view, the stars at night are amazing; I love it. I used to live in OC, on Balboa peninsula, that was nice too. You must be near to Magic Mountain, right? Canyon Country?

Canyon Country! No way! I'm a Valencia snob And don't get me talkin' about OC. That's where OM is from and where WW wants to move to...

LOL!!! But I do miss MM, the coasters are fun!!! Sorry about the OC comment, that was long ago. I did love Newport beach though.

OK, let's break things down for a second:

- Custody: Has he agreed to full custody? Does he have any interest at all in seeing the kids?

- Finances/Property: California is a community property state, so e split is 50/50, property, finances AND debt. This is what a judge will award by default, unless you give away some of your rights. Are you OK with a 50/50 split of everything?

- Child support: If you get full custody, he'll be paying through the nose and he will be REQUIRED to do so, again, by default. Child support guidelines are very "by the book" in Cali. Use this site: http://www.alllaw.com/calculators/Childsupport/California/ to figure out what you are due. THis is approx. what you will get for the kids.

- Alimony: Like child support, this is also very rigid and there is not much wiggle room. There may be a similar calculator out thee.

So, here are my thoughts, based upon my very recent divorce experience:

Divorce in California has some pretty clear guidelines which ALL judges have to go by. Child support and Alimony are prime examples. They are going to take his salary, look at the number of kids, factory in custody time and spew out a number. Take what you get. Don't argue. You aren't going to get screwed here, particularly if you get full custody.

The judge is also going to do a 50/50 property split. Again, if you can live with this, take it.

Now, the one issue is child custody. The judges are going to make this decision based upon what's best for the children. If he is already planning to move out of state then you will probably get full custody and he will get periodic visitation (if he chooses).

My advice is to not agree to anything your WH throws at you but to let it go to court and let the judge work it out. You are the woman and the mom in this situation which means you have the power. And your WH and his attorney know this, so don't let them bully you around.

Finally, many lawyers will do free consultations. Find one and ask if this is good advice, given that you can't hire a lawyer.

I'll keep checking in.

Hmmm Indarkness, The problem here is that my DD is my stepdaughter and my son is not his natural son; although he's the only father he has ever known. Adoption was planned for my DS.

Af far as the alimony...my WH says that his lawyer told him that no judge will give me alimony. Also I took out student loans to supplement income and apparently those won't be counted either. So, I'll get to be a single mom with no job, with my student loans and half our debt. Yippee.

The alimony thing is a crock, trust me. I'm in mediation and my WW had to voluntarily give it up, otherwise it was going to be required.

So your DD is WH's daughter? That does complicate things a bit. How long have you been the stepmom? Where is the real mom? If he is not going to be around, you might get rights, but I don't know.

And DS is yours by adoption (or soon to be)? Forgive me, I'm not trying to intrude, just trying to understand the situation.

About the loans, I don't know whether he is on the hook for those or not but that can be dealt with. In fact, if you can argue that the loans were necessary for living expenses because WH cut you off, you might get something from the judge.

And, presumably you are going to school so that you can get a job, correct?

I know it sucks. I know it's not the way things are supposed to be. I have to pay $3K/mo for the foreseeable future to support my WW and the OM. It makes me livid. But I will survive. I won't starve. And I will have my kids around.

Judges are fair. They are not going to screw you, particularly given your situation. Again, don't let your WH bully you.

And you believe him?

EAM, you really need a lawyer to protect your rights. Do you have AER (Army Emergency Relief) or its equivalent? It's been a long time since we were military, but there was ARC or ACT or something like that where families could get small emergency loans.

Also, since you are still married (?), have you exposed to H's commander? If he or she is doing their job right, that is the place where you will have the greatest impact.

OMG! I'm in tears. This is the last msg I got... I have to edit the bad words.



B***h get a f***ing life you've been divorced for awhile move on I don't need to hear about your f***ing sad life. I don't blame WH for leaving your dumb C**t [censored].

My WH is not in the military anymore; he is a DOD employee, so I don't ahev those powers anymore.

Also, the jerk who sent that msg is only a friend of hers on FB. She must be telling everyone we have been D for a long time.

OK. You are clearly dealing with people who have absolutely no respect for women or anyone else for that matter. Stop the exposure to these kinds of people because it just won't help.

EAM - you can get through this, you WILL get through this but you are going to have to be tough for a little while until things settle out.

What is your support network up there? Everyone has friends or even acquaintances. You need to find a rock to lean on right now. You can make it through on your own but a friend will surely make it easier.

Prayers heading your way...

I wish I had a "rock" Or even friends. My H told me while he was in Iraq that he wanted me to move up here in BFE so that I'd be away from everyone. Not that he really let me have friends to begin with, but all my acquaintances are an hour away. I'm too upset to drive. And I have no money for gas.

Too bad he's DOD. A good commander can really make someone's life uncomfortable!

I'm not real up on exposure techniques, but maybe with the FB OW friends you should just expose and not read their emails back? Chances are they will defend her and you don't need their garbage at this point.

Sounds like your H did quite the job on isolating you so you wouldn't have any support. Too bad he didn't count on MB. You can do this! Get a lawyer and start gathering your own information on what you are and are not entitled to in a divorce. I guarantee that CA has a state website that covers some of this stuff.

I'm not done with exposure yet, but I'm going to finish. I know whatever crap I get in return will be evil and ridiculous, but I have to do it.

Thanks for all your prayers Indarkness.

Also, I have a bunch of Army property my H stole from base and am working on getting that back to the Army; I just don't trust that he won't try to pin it on me.

Then get one of them to drive themselves up to you. It sounds like you need some rest. I just did a quick summary of your post - dang, woman, you've been through heck and back.

File that one in your 'circular file' under "idiot" and forget about it. And dry your tears. You're on a mission, sweetie.

Yep, I feel like I'm in living hell and the one person who was supposed to be there for me; the one I was always there for when he was in Iraq, is now telling everyone we have been divorced a long time.

I really don't have any real friends, none that would drive an hour to see me. Geez, I'm pathetic. How could I have let him do this to me? I guess I just focused on family too much. He was my best and only friend; or so I thought.

I know he's an idiot Maritalbliss, it just hurts that my H would say we have been D for a long time...Nothing has even gone to court yet.

The H you know has been taken over by an alien, EMA. Try not to let what he says get to you too much (easy for me to say )

You've got friends, here. We'll help you.

Thank marital! I'm very thankful for all of you. I only have 12 left to expose to; about half of which may be eeeevil. But, I do not care!

Okay, this guy is such an A**! I'll show you our whole conversation...

I�m writing to inform you that my husband WH is having an affair with OW.

During close to a year, H was in Iraq; we both professed our love for each other many times a day; every day, even the day before he returned he told me how excited he was to see me, and how much he loved and missed me.

A few days after returning home, he went to Illinois for a friends� wedding. It was very hard to see him go after waiting so long for him. I received a voicemail from H informing me we were getting divorced and I received the divorce papers less than a month later on our Anniversary. This has devastated our children and I beyond belief.

WH has told many lies about me in order to justify his infidelity; however I have incontrovertible proof to the contrary, and am more than happy to share it.

I�m not a perfect wife, nor do I think anyone is, I have always tried to be the best wife, I�ve loved him, and always been faithful and kind. He has been my best friend, my true love, and all my heart for six years. I love both he and our family and am willing to put in the effort to remedy any issues.

This affair is the sole reason for the divorce, and is destroying our marriage and family. I hope that if you have any influence over WH or OW, you would stand against this affair and stand for the institution of marriage and for fidelity.

God bless, BS

He wrote back...

B***h get a f***ing life you've been divorced for awhile move on I don't need to hear about your f***ing sad life. I don't blame WH for leaving your dumb C**t a*s

I wrote...

We aren't divorced! Is that what he's telling everyone? I can prove it too.


He wrote...

So f***in what grow up & leave me alone !!!!!

I wrote...

You're funny. I'm not the immmature person here. You're married and don't believe in marriage? Does your wife know? I have never called you any names. But really, don't worry, I have no desire to ever speak to you again. FYI, you are getting some serious misinformation. I will be praying for you though. God bless you! BS

EAM, I'm sorry you received such an immature and hateful reply to your exposure letter. Rather than take it to heart, I suggest you "consider the source" and simply put this person out of your life.

You are not alone, you know. I found out that my oldest, "best" friend not only didn't care that my wife was having an affair, but that he thought chasing married women was preferable to having a serious relationship with someone not "attached." To this day, he still cozies up to her, probably because he thinks "his turn" with her may come some day.

He is as deep in my Plan B as is she.

I always questioned the FB exposure as it seemed to me that their "friends" would either be liie-minded or would not listen to the truth.
I have found that my XWW's associates have heard a ton of misinformation on the cheating and/or are lowlifes themselves.
I got tons of support from XWW's family and our mutual friends and my own friends and family. But, I never expected any type of support from a bunch of barflies like my XWW's friends. Nor did I want it.

Fred, I guess you know who your real friends are when this happens. Not that this A-hole was ever my friend, but...It doesn't hurt so much what this guy said, it's more that my WH would tell them all we have D for a long time. THAT really hurts.

Two more responses, not positive either...

#1

I don't know you, so please don't send me any messages.

#2

i hope i forward this right.

Of course your WH is going to say he was divorced! How else could he justify the A?

The other day, my WW was talking about going to a new congregation and I asked her what she was going to tell the new friends she planned on making. I said, "are you going to tell them you are divorced?" (we are not D yet, not for 3 mos. more) And she said "of course, it's none of their business." And I replied, "great way to start off new friendships - with significant lies about who you are."

WSs are deceptive, lying, morons. But you knew this already.

True Indarkness, but it makes me want to scream! It seems that all his friends think I'm the bad guy here. It hurts so much.

It's so typical, EAM. My WW thinks it's okay to tell everyone that since we're separated it's okay for her to be sleeping with someone else.

She doesn't bother to tell them that we are separated because she was sleeping with someone else!

WOW! This is soooooo much fun!!! This is the most recent respone...

I WANT NO FURTHER CONTACT FROM YOU!!! I DID NOT ASK FOR THIS INFORMATION AND I DO NOT WANT ANY MORE OF IT!!! OW is a friend of mine and i wont let someone like you influence me about her or anyone else i choose to be friends with

LOL, someone like me? His dedicated wife? OMG!!!

You know what? It doesn't matter what the responses are. You are exposing the affair far and wide, and that's what counts. You can't unring a bell.

And this also is good for you, as you will know that you did your best.

Good for you!

What I got from her grandma...

no sure who you are but DO NOT contact me again! This is really unbelievably stupid and does show your intelligence or lack of!

These people must have been told SOME lies about you...

Meh, Flick refered to me as his exwife on an auction website 4 weeks after d-day. We live in a country were you have to be legally seperated for 2 year before even applying for a D.

Waywards dont have any new ideas, they just take 'em off the script

Karma, yep! I already figured there were lots of lies,but for her gandma to say that; ouch!

Lil, where are you? My WH tried to get the 6 mo. waiting period waived.Are you in NZ or something?

Got another response; of course negative...


Please do not send me any messages I do not care

I wrote back..

But if it was your husband you'd care.

Yah, NZ.

Don�t take the Reponses to heart. I got all sorts of rubbish; I remember others who got it. Its over and done soon enough and one day you will look back on this with some small amount of pride. Its the point whee YOU took control over something. Whether or not the exposed to people accept what you say is irrelevant really.

I was reading something a few days ago, which said it takes 10 repetitions of something to us before we believe it as fact. It was actually related to Christianity, but I thought on it and reckon it could work with exposure to. They'll all start chatting among themselves and eventually someone's going to wonder why if your lying, you have made such an enormous effort to get your POV out there.

And you have no idea of what is going on behind the scenes. After I exposed to Flicks workmates, he was refused entrance to a work do, and another workmate had a go at PQ who was allowed to attend. Can�t say it had an impact - then, but later on it did.

Yeah, lies never last long. Wow, you are in NZ? What an amazing place!I wanna camp in your back yard,lol! JK!

I guess it just hurts when"old" folks accept the cheating. Geez, maybe when they're old and married and unhappy, they root for promiscuity? I can't get a handle on it.

Hi EAM-

Got your email reply

I havwe a large-ish back yeard... about 200 acres.

Old folks have bought in to the fantasy hollywood star crossed soulmate vomit drivel the media presents, just like eveyone else. Heck before D-day, I would have thought alot of the stories I hear on here were romantic and all the BS's were just interferring with fate or something *have to beat my head, cos I cant kick my *ss *

The realiy is most of us had no idea how devestating it would be to be the left behind spouse, or just how horrible a WS is. Just keep speaking your truth, be the better person, and do what is right. Not because your responsible, but because it is right.

Have you heard of a 'poem' called Desiderata?

Yea Johnstwin! I can't wait to hear from you! That's awesome!

Holy Moly, 200 acres? That is soo awesome! I'm very jealous.

No, I had no idea how devastating this would be. I considered leaving him this past summer, but woke up and poured me whole heart into it. I feel stupid for doing it now b/c I was strong then (and cold).

No, I haven't heard of the poem, but I love poetry. My fav is Robert Frost "Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening"...

Stopping By Woods on a Snowy Evening
Whose woods these are I think I know.
His house is in the village though;
He will not see me stopping here
To watch his woods fill up with snow.

My little horse must think it queer
To stop without a farmhouse near
Between the woods and frozen lake
The darkest evening of the year.

He gives his harness bells a shake
To ask if there is some mistake.
The only other sound's the sweep
Of easy wind and downy flake.

The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.

BTW, Lil, I'm lol on your emoticon; head banger! Too funny!

Funny that, I considered leaving Flick up until just before the A. It was googling stats on D and happiness that made me decide to stay. Go figure.

Anyway, this helped a lot during all those icky days, along with some other stuff:

That is my favorite poem. I was surprised in reading along that I still know it by heart. I have been following your journey and you are in my prayers.

God's Blessings,

Say

That is so beautiful! And it really fits. I'm speechless; i really can't believe I haven't heard it before!v Thank you!

I always liked the "Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit." that bit just screamed out wayward to me. Today it screams out the exposed

Yeah, it's nearly the dictionary definition for wayward/exposed. That was amazing! Thank you so much for sharing it.

Yep, it hurts, doesn't it. But the hurt will lessen over time. Those waywards say all kinds of weird, hurtful things.

This one's my favorite, too! Anything by Robert Frost is good. I bought the illustrated book "for my kids" from Scholastic Book Club(grade school book seller).

Sorry - back to your topic...

Thuis is what is now posted on the OW FB page; I'm going to scream!!!!!!

OW is sorry for those of you that received the sick email from WH's ex-wife. I deactivated my facebook account in December with hopes I'd avoid all of this before it got out of hand. Take a small dose of fact, add a huge dose of fiction, mixed with plenty of crazy & it pretty much explains it all! If you received the mass mailing please forward it to me, the more documentation I have the better. My apologies again

You know, that is pretty much what my WS OW wrote! There is definitely a script. I was called a psychotic ex. When people replied to me, I replied back saying "Thank you for your reply....btw I am not an ex. There are no divorce proceedings..."

The good thing for me was that OW didn't know who I had e-mailed so she had to contact everyone herself to let them know the situation. That was back in November. WS says that he is still dealing with the embarassing fall out. I say if you don't think you are doing anything wrong and you said everyone knows anyway, what's the problem? Why would you be embarrassed? No answer to that one.

You are doing great!

TM

Thanks Travel! I now know why I received so many negative responses. Did you happen to read the "sick" letter I wrote?

Yes, I did. I thought it was a very well written letter. It just shows how screwed up these waywards and their similar mindset friends are.

I actually finally got a good response. It was negative at first, but then the lady let me know that she had been through the same thing. She was very sweet. I am feeling that a forest fire starts with one tiny spark.:)

I need some help with a plan B letter.I'm feeling very weak right now and could use any support.

This is the conversation the OW grandmother and I had...

I�m writing to inform you that my husband is having an affair with OW.

During close to a year, H was in Iraq; we both professed our love for each other many times a day; every day, even the day before he returned he told me how excited he was to see me, and how much he loved and missed me.

A few days after returning home, he went to Illinois for a friends� wedding. It was very hard to see him go after waiting so long for him. I received a voicemail from H informing me we were getting divorced and I received the divorce papers less than a month later on our Anniversary. This has devastated our children and I beyond belief.

H has told many lies about me in order to justify his infidelity; however I have incontrovertible proof to the contrary, and am more than happy to share it.

I�m not a perfect wife, nor do I think anyone is, I have always tried to be the best wife, I�ve loved him, and always been faithful and kind. He has been my best friend, my true love, and all my heart for six years. I love both he and our family and am willing to put in the effort to remedy any issues.

This affair is the sole reason for the divorce, and is destroying our marriage and family. I hope that if you have any influence over WH or OW, you would stand against this affair and stand for the institution of marriage and for fidelity.

God bless, BS


no sure who you are but DO NOT contact me again! This is really unbelievably stupid and does show your intelligence or lack of! OW's G-ma

I'm very sorry you feel that way. I love my husband and contrary to what OW and WH are saying we are married still. I can prove it. I won't message you again. God bless you! BS


like I said before...before I contact FACE BOOK and tell them you are harassing people, I really think you should stop your bull s**t. you are making yourself look totally crazy !! You are always using "God"...not sure he would be very pleased with right now! Act like an adult girl friend!!! Handle your problems like a big girl! You are not getting peoples sympathy -- you are pi**ing people off and making them realize what a loon WH was married to. Now go get a life!!! OW's G-ma


OW's G-ma, I do believe that God is on the side of marriage and truth, not affairs and lies. Think of me what you want. I will pray for you! BS

You've got to feel sorry for these people.

One of OW's friends said that we obviously believed in different Gods. So I'm guessing that her god thinks that adultery is acceptable as long as it maks you happy.

Seriously, just be glad that you are well out of the mess he has created for himself.

I just started reading this thread EAM. My heart goes out to you.
Sounds like WH is way messed up and running away from a good women like you.

Make sure you remember you are one OK?

I don't have any advice different than what has been given so far.
Prayers with you and I am glad the children have you

Travel, I am glad to be out of this mess he created. I'm still very sad though.

My WH told me that God knows his heart and is okay with what he's doing.

From all this grief, I have at least become closer to God. I had always taken a narrow path and tried my best to be kind to others and follow the "Golden Rule". This experience has reaffirmed that for me. I have questioned my faith along the way, but now know that I AM a good person.

I have made mistakes in our marriage, yes. But, what a learning experience. I'm still very scared, but am keeping faith in the God that is for love and truth.

Sortingitout, Thank you for your kind words. I am very sorry about your loss.

WOW! I finally got a truly nice response; I think...

It's a bit ironic though.

BS, I am not sure that I know you but the name WH does ring a bell from high school and yes I know OW from high school as well. I am so sorry to hear that this has happened but I would recommend for your marriage that you take this off everyone's facebook page- retract it if you can. The only way you can save your marriage is if WH chooses to, you cannot force him into it or shame him either. I do hope that he will come to his senses and value the covenant of your marriage and the future of your children enough to try and see if your marriage can be salvaged. I understand that you are feeling very desperate but I am afraid this is not the answer. I am concerned that this may have the opposite effect you hope it will. You need to pray for strength and guidance. I recommend going to the site marriage builders and reading some of the books that are listed there. I will pray for you and your family. Sincerely, OW FB Friend

Note the reference to this site...

WRite back that you were recommended EXPOSURE by this site!

I already did. Thanks Karma!

Hi EAM-

Many WS's say something very similar to this:

Gosh, I hate it when people use God to justify their sin. What they are really trying to do is fit the God of the Universe into their own box, even if it means that their "god" will be violating His own commandments. My FXH said something similar to this when I found out about his PA after our D. I asked him (with some sarcasm) "You can't possibly believe that God brought you two together." He replied "Well, it certainly seems that way."

My ever subtle response was something like "There is no way God would say "don't commit adultery" in His commandments but then say, 'in your case-it's okay!" My FXH seemed shocked to hear that....oh well.

Many WS's say things like "God wants me to be happy" to justify their choices. It's just like when they re-write marital history and say things like "I haven't been happy for a long time" (even though they neglected to let their BS's know that little tidbit). They are trying to bend God's word to their foggy thinking.

The truth is, God never said He wanted us to be happy.
He said He wants us to have an abundant life and He knows that it takes some boundaries to make sure it happens for us. God is not a permissive parent who says to a petulant and spoiled child "go ahead and do that thing that will be destructive to you. I just want you to be happy in THIS moment."

One of the most important things that God impressed on my heart when my FWH left us was that my DH was God's prodigal, not mine. I knew I could leave him in God's capable hands.

Hang in there-

Very interesting response. (the FB exposure, I mean)

JohnsTwin...I agree completely. It will be interesting when the newness wears off for WH and he reflects on the hearts he has broken. I know him and I know he will. I wonder how Godly he will feel then.

I'm still in so much pain, but have been thinking a lot andit's really not just the affair..I mean really how can a H know his wife was raped and beaten and not care? I mean even as a human being? I think I'm better off without him because he just isn't the man I married at all any longer. my husband was kind and caring and loving and sweet most always. This person is cruel, heartless and evil. I know he's in a fog, but really how can I ever forgive both the affair and his lack of compassion for the rape?

I guess anything is possible, but I just don't feel very strong now. I know what you went through and it must have felt similar. How did you forgive?

Pepper, yes I thought it interesting and ironic as well. I was at least glad for a bit of positivity and not being called the "C" word.

C word = cute

LOL Pepper! Yes, I'm very cute! I really wish that were the used word. I think I will replace it with that

When DD20 was a very little one, she came to me one day and said:

"I know the F word"

Me ~~~> I say: "Really? What is it?"

She says: "Fart."

I tell her, "Yes, that's the F word alright. Please don't say it in church."

That is hidonkulous! So totally funny!

When I was little my mom hardly ever swore. When she did, she'd say F'in A. My first name starts with A, so I always wondered why she was mad at me. She never knew until I grew up and told her, but I used to cry in my room wondering what I did wrong.

My mom (who is a lot like Rose from the Golden Girls) has only two "cuss" phrases:

For an average "oh s&*#" expletive-my mom will say "Good Night Nurse!"

For those of the "F'n A" variety, it's "Shoot the dog!"

As a child, I did worry about our dog now and then...

JohnsTwin, those are great! I think I've used "Shoot the Dog" before myself. We have a giant hound dog that howls continuously. He is very cute, but can be grinding on the nerves at times, so the expression I used was more directed at the actual dog; although I am an animal lover and would never really shoot him. I think i may use that one for sure though now.

My Mom used to blurt out "Land o' Goshen!" What the H???? LOL

LOL! That's a great one! Another one that I onle heard one person ever use was, "Schuky Darn!"

Hi EAM-

You have email!

Thanks JohnsTwin! You have one now too!

Our REALLY serious cuss phrases in our house are Jeeze Louise and God bless America. They are really comical coming from a three year old grand daughter.


God's Blessings,

Say

I'm sorry, I can resist no longer:

The two phrases I use most when I don't want to swear are:

"Godfrey Daniel, mother of pearl!"

and

"Great googly-moogly ooglies!"

Love the first one, Fred. Never heard it before.

God's Blessings,

Say

LOL! Jeeze Louise and God Bless America are my mom's new fav's since I told her I took the other personal..

My ten year old son love loves the Spongebob swear words; "Tarter Sauce!". "Fish-Paste!", and "Barnacles!"

Those are awesome Fred; I don't think I've ever heard those before either!

How about "Hubbly-Bubbly!"?

I got some more good ones...I was telling my mom some of the ones I hadn't heard and she told me theses...My great grandma said, "putty-putty!", "Fiddlesticks!", and "Oh Shaw"! My grandpa used to say "Yer fulla wet hay!"! Also she had..."That's a pile of ships!" and "Piddle-paddle!" and "It was a dog's breakfast!" and "snizzle-snazzle!" They're all pretty old fashioned, but funny.

I had a similar one... when DD17 was about 12, we were at the dinner table and I dropped the butter turning the cloth into splatsville.

I yelped "CRAP!" to which she replied with shocked look on her face "You used the C-word, and AT THE TABLE"

Got another response to the exposure letter...

"BS I have no idea who you are and why you would be tellling me about what is going on in your life. You know life is not fair sometimes, but things like this are what make us stronger as individuals. If you are getting divorced from WS then it was not meant for you two to be together. I know WS and OW both from high school and there is no doubt in my mind that either one of them would purposley hurt anyone. So move on and be a better person and mother and quit putting your business out there because it makes you look pretty psycho and I don't even know you!"

I am having a hard time with this one. So I'm psycho because I love ny H and am upset about the affair and subsequent D proceedings.

"If you are getting D from WS then it was not meant for you to be together"...So, it's all fate...she just slipped and landed on his D**k? and that means that he and I weren't meant to be.

Oh yeah and if I were a better person, I'd just slink into the shadows and accept it. right?

Oh and reagrding them purposefully hurting anyone..Um, well my H knew he was married and made promises before God; I believe that the OW also knew...If them then having an affair is not purposefull hurting someone, then I'm not sure what is.

And...it seems like this person feels like affairs are fine and dandy as long as you don't know the injured person.

Am I reading too much into it? I was feeling much better today until I got this.

EAM, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, the objective of exposure is to EXPOSE. The objective isn't to generate responses to your exposure.

The number of negative responses you've received have me wondering what sort of people are they who have influence over your WH? The responses you've posted here almost universally say, "BS, we don't know who you are but..." Do these people not know who WH married? How removed are you from these people? This concerns me.

But I repeat: The object is to expose the affair. The pushback you're getting is irrelevant. What's relevant is that these people are now "in the know," and can't claim deniability. Besides, what they say to you and what they say to him can be completely different stories. They may not want you to think you're on their side, but that doesn't mean they're on HIS side, either.

All it takes is one --one exposure target-- to choke the life out of the A. The trouble is, none of us knows which one that is. So you have to do them all.

Thank you Fred, I understand. It still hurts though.

I don't know all these people. Part of what has made this all so difficult is that the affair has been going on in the midwest and I am in Cali. We rarely went there and when we did we were mostly with his family. I did meet a few of his friends and messaged them too, there was no response from them.

His mom is supportive, but even she can't believe some of the emotional abuse he has inflicted on me. Almost all the time he is fun and kind; it's the 5% of the time he is very emotionally cruel. He says sorry always and has told me that he thinks it his fear kicking in when we start getting extra close. We were always close, but like me he was hurt badly emotionally when he was little, so letting go all the way is scary. I did and is probably why I'm in so much pain; I had been afraid too, but did it and then bam! He was gone!

Also Fred, these are all people he grew up with and went to high school with; including OW.

What really concerns me is that he had told me that they are all partiers and he has been drinking with them; among other things. I'm mostly concerned about the drinking. He is an alcoholic. He usually never drank during our marriage; although he had a few relapses on out of town business trips.

He's qutting his great job and moving there. Even the OW is a partier, so I worry he is on a major downward spiral. Maybe I shouldn't care, but I do love my H that is buried somewhere inside.

EMA



From How the Co-Dependancy Movement is Ruining M's

Dr Harley

Give me a chance to redeem myself. I, of all people, understand how the concepts of co-dependency started. I had a one-year internship in a treatment center for chemical dependency, and I owned and operated ten such centers myself. Co-dependency was something all of us addressed in marriages where one or both spouses were addicted to drugs or alcohol.

When an alcoholic is married to a loving and caring spouse, the spouse's love and care is sucked in like a black hole. It drains the caring spouse of everything they have, leaving him or her not only exhausted, but also having failed to meet their sick spouse's needs. In these cases, the non-alcoholic spouse must emotionally detach themselves or becomes emotionally destroyed.


I know I don;t know your whole sitch and am jumping in here but Harley EMPHASISES NOT TO PLAN A an active alcoholic.

I'll see if I can find the article.

Nesre

Wow, EAM. I feel for you.

There's a lot going on that raise the ol' about your marriage.

The first is your comment about him being an alcoholic. If he's actively drinking, Dr. H. says the MB concepts rarely work. That addiction has to be addressed before any other recovery can begin. Like some others on this board, I am a recovered alcoholic, and I can tell you that when you combine an alcoholic with alcohol, nothing else matters. Not you, not OM, not family, not children...

Another factor that disturbs me is this sense that you are an "outsider" to WH and his circle of family and friends. For reasons beyond my understanding, it seems that WH is being drawn back to his "stomping grounds." And you're not included. You've NEVER been included.

Being discarded like yesterday's newspaper is a major blow -- I know, like you I've been there! Especially when the person doing the discarding is the one who vowed to "love, honor and protect" through "sickness and health" and so on. It hurts like nothing else. Boy, do I get that!

Finally, he's quitting his job and moving to be with the "party crowd?" Here I think you have it pegged 100%: He's on a major downward spiral. Let's add this up: Alcohol + Irresponsibility + Estrangement = Major Disaster Looming. Do you want to be dragged into that and down with it? I'm beginning to think you may be the lucky one here.

Someone has to say it to you, EAM. Given my story, perhaps it's best coming from me: Please think long and hard about your marriage and what you want out of it. I seem to recall you've been married 6 years. But your signature shows a DS10 and DD14. What is their connection? What do they think of WH's behavior?

Thanks Nesre! I guess I've been doing it all wrong. Does that include exposure? Do I just go straight to plan B? So now he's attached to her? I wait until he hits bottom?

I've been plan on plan A. I just am so worried about my H inside of the alien. I know he went through a lot in Iraq. Thank goodness no alcohol is allowed there. But they all talked about it a lot. I think it got him going. He drank when he came home, but in very small amounts; I was worried then, but when he got back together with the high chool buddies, it was on...alcohol, pot (which is weird b/c my H doesn't smoke at all); he also told me many times that he stayed away from most of those old friends before b/c they all drank a lot and talked so badly about women; like you should treat them like crap. So, that is the influence he has now, he stays away from anyone who mentions his marriage (like family), and is on a big party binge with OW and his good ol' boy friends.

Now he's moving there. I'm scared it will destroy him and I won't ever see the sweet H I had the tearful goodbye with when he left for Iraq.

My H had pain from his youth and was a recovering alcoholic, but I saw the inside of him (until he'd get scared) and I miss him.

I was hurt as a kid too, so I "get it", but I'm hurting much worse now. Everyone says "move on", but I can't. It took me 20 yrs to get over my pain from childhood and 6 more to fully open up to him; I just don't think I could do it again or would ever want to even. I feel like my soul has been torn out. I can't make myself stop loving him and it stinks; I wish I could b/c it hurts too much.

Fred, I have been included in his family; not that is says much because he always said his closest friends were more like family to him. I did meet a few. His military friends I was also friends with, but they aren't the ones I'm worried so much about and they are much more suppostive of me.

Yes, it is a major blow to be discarded like this; I've never felt so much pain in my life. I think it would be easier if he had been home and we had not been getting along, but we were both so excited to see each other. Then he went there. All my friends were surprised I'd not go with him, but we have so many animals to care for and I truly trusted him. I feel so stupid.

No, I don't want to be dragged down, but I also don't want my H dragged down. He has been to counseling before and explained to me that he has a "falsie". It's the person he is when he is being emotionally numb. I think that is who is being right now. It's the funny guy, the comic, the drunk. The true person he is inside is sweet, shy, loving, tender, and pretty insecure and afraid. He told me that he compartmentalized my and our family. To me that says he isn't dealing with any true feelings.

The kids make it more sad for me...We are a blended family. It was rough at first, but my step daughter and my son are just like real bro and sis now; they love each other so much. My H is the only dad my son ever knew and is so crushed my this (he lost two dad's now). My step daughter called me crying saying that it feels like I'm being torn away from her. I can barely deal with my own pain, but thiers makes it unbearable.

Okay, I just read a post mentioning the TOW site. I went there and read a few posts and lterally barfed in my kitchen sink; couldn't even make it to the toilet.

EAM,

Firstly do the BEST plan A you can, give it your best shot so you know that when you go plan B, there are no "if only I had.." I have seen more than one plan B fail because there too many regrets, which lead to contact. Contact in Plan B is BAD.

Plan A is to last (for a woman) between 6-12 weeks. I did the full 12 weeks and it was HARD. I had almost nothing left to give by then. Plan B (at least at first) was actually a welcome respite from the day to day madness, heart break and anger I felt each time I was in contact with my H.

Lastly, dont go to the old witch site. They live in a fantasy world beyond understanding. They lie to themselves and each other about how wonderful it is to be them. One thing I have noticed is how quickly they change their tune about their 'soulmates' and 'star struck destiny of love' once they go the endings part.

Email me at the addy in my sigline and I'll tell you of much more fun sites to look

Thanks Lil, I sent you an email. For me it hurts when I don't see or talk to him, it hurts when I do, it hurts when he's acting nice, and when he's mean. I pray that all this gets easier; although I can't imagine the pain ever going away. We were always together. I feel like I can't even think of my kids younger years without being reminded of him and feeling such sadness.

EAM

I checked that site out to after it was mentioned. SICK

Your doing a great job with all that has happened. Went back over your thread. Rxposure letter is for you-Not for the reaction you get. Its out now and people will think what they think. The main thing is that WW now has to deal with the fallout of the TRUTH.

THATS A GOOD THING>>>>>
Your sitch in ways is similar to mine except up until 1/27/10 my WW was actively drinking and bouncing in an out of A and in and out of our home.

ITs A DOUBLE WHAMMY.

I couldn't find the article but I went back to one of my old posts and copied from the book LB's what Harlley says about alcohol/drug addiction:





You said in a couple of refernces that you two had agreed to no alcohol during your M.

He is now actively drinking. This alone has its own "ALIEN" effect. As a recovering alooholic I've been there.

As a FWW who in there right mind would bring ONS to their marital home?? TOTAL FOG w/entitlment.

Double this up with your WW's A and its a mess.

"I" had to quit sitting passively by and let my M be destroyed.

"I" had to quit enabeling the drinking and the A.

I exposed with written letters. No responses except from her family and they were supportive. Doesn;t matter. The A is now in the open. I will never let her know how many or to who those letters were sent.

Both A and drinking may continue on---Thats out of my hands-->But no longer with my help.

I would suggest contacting someone in your area or google al-anon. I know you live out in the sticks but the people involved are very dedicated to seeing that people make it to F2F meetings. For all you know your closest neighbor may even go.

The F2F support there is quite amazing and healing. Much like this board except there is nothing like a "real hug" from someone whos been there.

I'll keep you in my prayers

Nesre

EDIT: I was told early in my posting by a member here that living with an active alcoholic and working MB's is possible but it takes being well grounded in your own recovery. It also takes a fine balancing act with wisdom to know when to Plan A and when to detach from the dis-ease of alcohol-ism. (SEPERATE THE PERSON FROM THEIR DIS-EASE) MB's doesn't talk about detachment. That you'll need to learn in Al-Anon.

Thanks Nesre for all the info and your prayers. I will check for an alanon group nearby. I'm having such a dufficult time dealing with all this grief and trying to think and organize and become unemotional so that I can represent myself in court against his lawyer.. I'm noramlly pretty sharp, but I just am having a very hard time focusing.

Okay...I need some help here...New info

I was trying to decide if I should take my WH cash offer for the D which would waive my rights to the house and to his retirement. Or to take it to court

I just found out that WH indeed quit his govt job and moved to the midwest to be with OW. So, now I am worried that the retirement won't be worth it as no gains will be made and our savings plan will be withdrawn at a loss; there is 20G in there now; it won't gain either. I also worry that without him having a job I won't get any alimony, and he will let the house go and ruin my credit.

I wonder if I can even enforce the cash offer...

Can I have a vote here? The offer or court?

Court.

Court. Lawyer up, if you haven't already.

That's the problem I can't get an attorney, but he has one.

If he has no income, I won't be awarded alimony. I have no job and am up in the middle of nowhere and there are no jobs around.

EAM, you've got to have some legal help, here. Look in the Yellow Pages to see if there is any kind of Legal Aid office in your area. You are outgunned if he goes into court with an attorney and you don't. Not good. Please research this to see if you can get some help. If there isn't a legal aid office, try calling a local attorney's office to see if they can give you some direction.

Court.

Do not try an negotiate with a wayward. The A WILL NOT LAST. You responsibility to to protect the family assets from the wayward. He WILL thank you if you recover. Flick hates knowing how much $$$ he gave PQ. In fact if I hadnt been keeping a tally he would never have known because active waywards do not think about anything.

He are some links I googled up, not sure if the are in your neck of the woods or not.

free legal help

another one

another

this one because I wondered if you are getting all the state assistance you are entitled to

last one

Marital, I have and there is no legal aid here; very rural. I also called and attorney and asked about getting help or having the court order attorney fees be paid by WH. He said the courts rarely do that and that even if they did, no attorney would take it without a retainer...my WH green attorney has a 4G retainer. I don't have that and have went down every avenue to get it.

Thanks lil, I did speak to the mediator who is an attorney and a former judge. He can't give me legal advice but broke down the laws and typical judgements. The way I see it is that the 25G is better than the nothing I will more than likely get if I go to court. I may not even get the 25G still, but if he doesn't pay it will be contemt of court. The only other assets I was concerned for were the retirement and our investments, which...since he quit his job are not going to amout to 25G. The house sale may yeild a little profit, but I doubt a lot.

EAM, contempt of court doesn't mean a lot and won't guarantee that you'll get the money.Is he going to give you the money before you are D? If you're going to settle for that, get it up front.

Why are you not entitled to 50% of all marital assests? Even without alimony, the house and savings have to be worth more. Also are you getting child support from him>?In NZ even if you dont work, there is still a miminum amount that must be paid, and the IRD will make sure you get it, even if they garnish the unemployment benefit.

Here are just a couple ideas I have

though you are in the boondocks, there has to be a bigger town near you with legal aid. Not sure where you are but Tahoe City?, Truckee? Reno? Auborn? Sacramento? Any of those kinds of places you can look on the web.

If you want to stay at the home for now, can you start looking for a housemate for you and the child. Maybe a decent hardworking person who needs a place to call home.

Great ideas from all of you, thanks...

There is no longer any savings, WH spent it all on his trips to see OW.

I don't believe I will sign.

I reread it prior to signing and found some very interesting tidbits. Aside from the cash we sere supposed to file jointly on taxes and the return was supposed to be applied to my vehicle. This is what I found...

"Each party shall be entitled to a credit for the total tax withheld from earnings of that party..." So what does that mean? It's pretty ambiguous. I believe it means WH gets credit towards the equilization payment for all taxes withheld from his pay? Or from the tax return? Well he paid well over 25G in taxes.

"husband shall receive credit towards the equilizattion payment, as described in the attachments hereto, for one half (50%) of any tax refund for the 2009 tax year"
Same kind of crap, I may have even ended up owing him $$

I feel like I'm in a corner here. I'm in trouble if I take the offer and I'm in trouble if I go to court. I have been researching the retirement; it's federal, and you have to hire a special attorney just to get that right. I can't even get a D attorney. I have to file something tomorrow or else it goes default. I really just want to go to my mom's and curl into a tiny ball and be away from the world. Pretty pathetic huh?

S***K OW has SOME nerve...Just received an email from her nasty a**...

Hi WS,
I know that you hate me, and contacting you at this point probably isn't the best of ideas, but I feel you need to hear from me. I just want you to know that WH loves DS dearly and he thinks of DS as his son. That relationship is something completely separate from you and WH's relationship. He wants to be a part of DS's life and I know somewhere deep down you feel that way too, despite how hurt, angry, and confused you are right now.
I know it's easy to blame me for all of this but BS, I never lured WH away from you. I have known WH since 5th grade. He and I were always close friends through school and we began corresponding years ago, long before Iraq, long before the wedding (the wedding that, by the way, I did not attend), and strictly as old friends. We were hiding nothing. I'm not sure if WH told you back then about talking to me but my ex-husband can confirm that I was very open about talking to WH again.
You and he may still technically be married for a few more months, as you wait out the court process but, in my book, once divorce papers were filed you were officially the ex and WH has made it clear to you that your marriage is over and he is not coming back. I also realize there are two sides to every story and WH has admitted to me all of the past mistakes he has made, that both of you have made, in the relationship. You and he have struggled in your relationship from the beginning - long before WH and I ever reconnected as friends, so it's really not fair to blame this all on me. He wants you and DS to move on, be taken care of, and have a good life. He will stand by his word, be fair to you financially, and hold up his end of the agreement. You know WH has a good heart and he is the person you know he is, he's not out to hurt either of you. He'd like DS to remain in his life, if you'll allow it. It doesn't have to be this way. I don't hate you, I don't hate DS. I would never try to sabotage DS and WH's relationship. I'm a single mom, and I know the pressures that come with raising kids on my own, and the added financial pressure associated with it.
I would just like to put everything in perspective for you and hopefully shine some light and clarity into this situation. Divorces are difficult and messy enough without filling it with animosity based on incorrect conclusions.
I'm disappointed you went to such lengths to send the messages to my family, my friends, all in trying to hurt or embarrass WH and I. And I was even more shocked when you repeatedly called my ex-husband. He could care less what I'm doing now that we're divorced. Everyone that knows WH and I knows that we do have morals and values. WH filed for divorce from you, he and I have reconnected, and are seeing where this relationship takes us. There is nothing wrong with that, and there is nothing anywhere that states once you've filed for divorce you can't pursue new relationships.
BS, I know deep down you aren't a bad person and are only hurting and trying to figure out the rest of your life. Just try to think of DS in all of this and try to help him understand that even if WH doesn't love you anymore it has zero to do with how he feels for him. You don't want him to go on being angry for the rest of his life. That's only going to create problems for you down the line as you try to raise him.
I just want you to know my conscience is clear, and I know that I have done nothing wrong, and that I am not the cause of your divorce. I'm not a skank, I'm not a whore. I married in high school, and stayed married for 18 years, so if that makes me a bad person then I guess I am.
Please don't contact my friends or my family anymore. No one except you and WH know the true dynamics and downfall of your relationship, so it really isn't anyone else's business but you two.
It's a very sad situation, BS, and I do wish you healing.

OW

To respond or not to respond; that is the question!!

There are so many parts of this that just make me want to vomit. You can almost hear the violins playing in the background...One of the funniest to me is that she knows how hard it is to be a single mom...HA HA HA! She was married fresh out of high school and her D was final 2 mos. ago. She has been with my H since he got back physically for four mos. now, and I'm sure the EA goes way further back. She got a nice D settlement too, yet she knows the struggle?

TRANSLATION SERVICES BROUGHT TO YOU BY CLOROX


I know that you hate me,

I know I have earned your hatred

and contacting you at this point probably isn't the best of ideas,

I often do things that are not the best of ideas

but I feel you need to hear from me.

I want to twist the knife in your back, please hold still while I do it ... and i am nice about it while I do it



I just want you to know that WH loves DS dearly and he thinks of DS as his son.

I want you to know that your adulterous husband and his wh*** have been busy doing an autopsy of your marriage - before it is officially dead


That relationship is something completely separate from you and WH's relationship.

You are too stupid, you need me, your WH's wh***, to point out the obvious to you


He wants to be a part of DS's life and I know somewhere deep down you feel that way too,

I know you better than you know yourself, because I am better than you

despite how hurt, angry, and confused you are right now.

Nah-nah-nah, your feelings do not really matter, yanno?

I know it's easy to blame me for all of this but BS, I never lured WH away from you.

I am not in an adulterous situation, it's all your fault anyways


I have known WH since 5th grade.

Dibs! I saw him first!

He and I were always close friends through school and we began corresponding years ago,

Nah-nah-nah - behind your back !

long before Iraq, long before the wedding

when your WH took vows he is now breaking

(the wedding that, by the way, I did not attend),



and strictly as old friends.

friends with benefits and loose boundaries and low morals


We were hiding nothing.

from each other

I'm not sure if WH told you back then

Nah-nah-nah .... your WH was telling me things he did not tell you about talking to me

but my ex-husband can confirm that I was very open about talking to WH again.

My XH did not care enough about me to put a stop to it

You and he may still technically be married for a few more months,

And I am technically his wh***

as you wait out the court process

Heehee nah-nah-nah

but, in my book,

which is NOT the Bible, in case you were wondering

once divorce papers were filed you were officially the ex and WH has made it clear to you that your marriage is over and he is not coming back.

I am still a wh*** except for those pesky detaily like LEGAL MARRIAGE - oopsie !


I also realize there are two sides to every story

My side vs legally married ... but, I am only saying this to you to look good, because deep in my heart, I know I am a wh***


and WH has admitted to me all of the past mistakes he has made,

Ha! Ha! I know your WH sooooooo much that he made a confession to me, his wh***


that both of you have made,

Ha! I know all about what a lousy wife you were. (trying to make my wh***dom look better than your wifely errors)


in the relationship.

Are you taking notes? Yours was a relationship, not a marriage, by the decree of the adulterous wh*** who helped end your >ahem< "relationship"


You and he have struggled in your relationship from the beginning -

Aren't you glad you have my help, as I do the autopsy on your still living marriage. I am such a good person. Please like me !

long before WH and I ever reconnected as friends,

I know this because your lying, adulterous, cheating, bassturd, WH told me, so .... it must be true. WH only lies to you, never to me.


so it's really not fair to blame this all on me.

I am drowning in guilt. Please say I am a good person. PLEEEEEEZEEEEEEEE , someone call the Whaaaaaaaambulance!


He wants you and DS to move on,

WH can no longer speak for himself, I am now in charge of speaking for WH, so, listen up !

be taken care of,

with less security, because of my actions

and have a good life.

also, so I feel less guilt over becoming a home-wrecking wh*** who is nervous as hades things will not go as "planned" in affairage-to-be

He will stand by his word,

Except stand by his previous words, you remember, those marriage vows ... other than that, he'll stand by his word .... ummmmm Maybe not


be fair to you financially,

JUST KIDDING !

and hold up his end of the agreement.

But not his marriage agreement

You know WH has a good heart

.... for a lying cheat, that is ....

and he is the person you know he is,

a lying adulterous liar

he's not out to hurt either of you.

JUST KIDDING !

He'd like DS to remain in his life, if you'll allow it.

I'm not sure about this myself ... it would be a connection back to you ....

It doesn't have to be this way.

It has to be MY way, dammitall. Cooperate please.

I don't hate you,

JUST KIDDING !

I don't hate DS.

I am soooooooo maternal, can't you tell?


I would never try to sabotage DS and WH's relationship.

JUST KIDDING !
I sabotaged your marriage for rice-crispy-treat's sake.


I'm a single mom,

Oopsie - I mean, I am a divorced skanky-ho mom, my bad

and I know the pressures that come with raising kids on my own,


and the added financial pressure associated with it.



I would just like to put everything in perspective for you

because you are obviously too stupid to see my gloriousness, my generosity, and my ... what was that again? .... Oh yeah, my overall superiority to you, yeah, that's it.

and hopefully shine some light and clarity into this situation.

Because I AM the light .... cue the > ringing of church bells<

Divorces are difficult and messy enough without filling it with animosity based on incorrect conclusions.
JUST KIDDING !

I'm disappointed you went to such lengths to send the messages to my family,

CRAP!
Now I look like a home-wrecking wh***


my friends, all in trying to hurt or embarrass WH and I.

.... as we twisted the knife in your back and broke your un-important marriage vows

And I was even more shocked when you repeatedly called my ex-husband.

CRAP !

He could care less what I'm doing now that we're divorced.

This is how little my XH thinks of me ... XH knows I am trash

Everyone that knows WH and I knows that we do have morals and values.

JUST KIDDING !

WH filed for divorce from you,

.... because I told him to ...

he and I have reconnected,

and are going at it like rabbits

and are seeing where this relationship takes us.

... besides the bedroom

There is nothing wrong with that,

.... because I have decided your marriage is over, and my opinion is the only one that matters !

and there is nothing anywhere that states once you've filed for divorce you can't pursue new relationships.

because marriage vows and marriage licenses mean nothing to me

BS, I know deep down you aren't a bad person

just a rival and a threat to my adultery-happiness

and are only hurting

from the knife I shoved in your back -

and trying to figure out the rest of your life.

.... luckily, you have me to provide sage and worldly advice.

Just try to think of DS in all of this and try to help him understand that even if WH doesn't love you anymore it has zero to do with how he feels for him.

JUST KIDDING !

You don't want him to go on being angry for the rest of his life.

If this doesn't get better, my adultery-happiness is going to suffer

That's only going to create problems for you down the line as you try to raise him.

... without your husband, who is in my bed, thank you very much

I just want you to know my conscience is clear,

.... because I had it removed a few years ago

and I know that I have done nothing wrong,

except stab you and your son in the heart, but, no biggie, it did not hurt me

and that I am not the cause of your divorce.

JUST KIDDING !


I'm not a skank, I'm not a whore.

JUST KIDDING !

I married in high school, and stayed married for 18 years, so if that makes me a bad person then I guess I am.

(aside: this is the ACTUAL WAY she feels about herself. )


Please don't contact my friends or my family anymore.

Because they think I am a skank-ho !

No one except you and WH know the true dynamics and downfall of your relationship,

... and me, don't forget what I told you earlier .... WH has told me all about the mistakes YOU made

so it really isn't anyone else's business but you two.

and mine ...

It's a very sad situation, BS, and I do wish you healing.

JUST KIDDING !

Thanks Pepper! That was awesome! Think i should write the Wh**e back? I think the exposure may be getting to the poor little sl*t and my WH. I also know that my son has no desire to see him; especially if he is still with stank-bag. I think WH knows that too and is beginning to wonder is H-bag is worth it. I can just picture them telling each other how great and moral they are and what a big meanine I am...because of course as my WH said ...if I really loved him, I'd want him to find happiness

NO ! NEVER acknowledge her existence. That is the higher insult!

Write WH,

"Please tell your adultery partner, her services are not welcome."



Quite true.


EGG ZAK LEE !!!

Which is the ENTIRE reason she wrote to you.
Things are coming apart in affair-zombie-land.

Save your energy and your sanity, EAM. Don't waste an erg writing to the POSOW. Don't give HER the satisfaction of engaging in an exchange of diarrhea.

You said what needed to be said. That's all.

This is a letter written by a child to her adulterous father.



It comes from a book written about communicating with picture stories, to make a point.
I thought parts of this might be useful for you, should you ever (in the future) discuss things like this with WH.

DO NOT COMMUNICATE WITH OW - not now, not ever !

That's beutiful! I'll share the last one my son wrote to his dad; there have been many and keep in mind it's a bit more raw...My son considers himself a general of sorts in a war. Nearly everyone who meets him says he'll be famous oneday, probably even the president. He's ten, but very wise for his age...It's sad, but it came from his heart; he has a lot of anger from all this too.

Goodbye forever dad,

i am done just wake up that girl "OW" to her your just a new toy and when your old shell go for someone else and thats how your paying for the divorece im sick done and ive been abuse in both ways and every time you say no to comeing back its like a thousand spears going in to my heart and i know somewhere in that body is dad but your not my dad give me my dad back i dont know what person you are but when i find you ill destoy you for doing this to me and if you think your getting to be frends to me ever again your wrong i miss you so much and you probobly think thats dumb youve taken everything from me my mom my dad my sister my family my frends my dog my cats im done and the reason im so mean is becouse im hurting so much inside i know your running away but comebackor im thouge im seriously cant take this anymore i have no frends here and i cant make anyhere becouse there always either grounded or not home youve deprived me from all the people i love my best friend my cats my dog my mom my dad everybodey and the worst part about it is DD is hurting to everything ive ever cared about youve destoyed so make your choice if you hate me that much then go if you do want out then get here in the next 24 hours this is my last timeing and my last speech go and youll never see me again i am DONE the the histery books ill be nown as the qwiet wairior so make your choice you fiend



sgt "DS"

Ohhhhhhhh LAWD have mercy!

This was not sugar & honey to OW's eyes/ears/other body parts !

I love your kid !

Ah, the lessons children have to learn from our selfishness.

Was this a misspelling of friend, or deliberate spelling of fiend?


"so make your choice you fiend"

It was deliberate spelling of fiend. He isn't the best punctuator or speller, but he usually seems to get the harder words correct.

I love him too! He's an amazing kid. My H says he's just like him....NOT!!! At least not anymore. My son did learn a lesson from all this and he says he will NEVER do this to his family. DD also says she thinks her dad is the most cruel person ever and is worried it's genetic and says she'll strive her whole life to NOT be like him.

It's funny b/c my son usually signs as a general not a sgt.

Yeah, I think that WH may be getting sad and missing DS a lot and OW desperately is trying to mend it so that everything is peachy keen.

I honesty don't know if my WH came home and tried to reapir everything, if any of us could ever truly forgive him or trust him again like before..

Oh and BTW, that was sent about two weeks ago and DS has not contacted him since. He misses him, but says he misses dad, but that's not his dad.

All is not well in AffairZombieLand .... thus, OW's attempt to get YOU to make her life better ... throw your son into AFZ .....

Heck no I won't throw him in there! He's hurting enough. My step-daughters mom is making her voice heard too...she's furious and we have talked a bunch. She called WH and told him what and idiot he is and how he is hurting the kids and throwing a good woman away for a slut and that he only thinks with his d**K. He told her she is psycho, lol! Gotta figure out a way that he can't force DD to visit at OW's house, that would be like a Nuke. Any thoughts? I know XW #1 would be willing; she says it makes her sick that WH is so selfish and would take DS around his F-buddies and that it hurts DD. He can't force DS b/c he hadn't adopted yet, but DD is another story...there is a visitation order. Could XW1 find a way to ensure visitation is away from OW?

I'm confused.
These are his step children, correct?

DD is my step daughter. Her mom is fully supportive of me. DS is my natural son, but not WH natural son. But the two think of each other as real bro and sis, DD thinks of me as a second mom and DS well WH is the only dad he has ever known.

DD's mom wishes there was a way to keep WH from taking DD around his "F**k Buddies". Is there?

I guess DD10's Mama has to get some legal documents in order to protect her child from OW.

It must be legally supportable.

If X-wife (DD10's Mama) takes the child to a counselor for the trauma of visiting AffairZombieLand, that would be helpful in court.


I'm no good at legal stuff.

I bumped a thread:
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...flat&Number=2319026&#Post2319026

DD10's Mama should document the child's responses, reactions, etc.
In exact quotes whenever possible.

Document the effect it is having on her.

Thanks Pepper! It's actually DD13, but she was abused terribly by XW#2. I will tell her mom. Thanks again so much.

I am a good lil' student and I love watching Schoolbus at work so -

Look at the third 'paragraph' (honestly does this woman not know about punctuation) and we get , which incidentally is also the paragraph with the most information in it, and we are getting the 'real' point of this e-mail

I think the red bits is her justifying to herself - and EAM. The blue highlight is the thrid within the third and is the sole reason for this letter.

The rest of the paragraph is interesting to me because of the inconsitancies in it. He wants you and DS to be taken care of and have a good life, but he wants you to 'move on'. He will 'be fair' and hold up to an undisclosed agreement, but she admits life as a single mother is finacially straining.
WH has a good heart and doesnt want to hurt anyone, but persists in an adulterous relationship - which he has done in all his marriages to date.

Maybe you've already done this....It helped me gain a bit of a different perspective, if nothing else you learn a lot about yourself....Have you tried the Love Dare thing? I wanted to burn it myself...but made it through....just a suggestion. Good luck.

I kind of think that WH may have had a breakdown last night and that is why OW wrote me...she's getting scared. He and his lawyer pushed me to the edge and today was the last day I had to respond to the D papers...So, it's ironic that she wrote me this morning. I think WH broke down last night and said he missed DS. I think he's worried if he made the right choice.

I think OW is worried and afraid he may leave her and come home to his family, she desprerately wrote me that letter. I could be wrong, but it seems so to me.

I know he loves me deep inside. I think he just spent so much time away and isolated in Iraq, she began talking to him and the fantasy evolved. Then when he came home and had so little time with us, she had D'ed her H for him, and H was goaded by his "friends" he turned the affair physical. He has told me over and over that he doesn't really want to do this (D), but feels he has no choice.

I think now reality is hitting and the lustiness is wearing off and he's realizing what he has done and who he is hurting. I know this sounds really weird, but I can feel when people are thinking of me. I haven't felt him think of me since he left; except for the other night (it didn't last long, but he was i know it). I'm sure you all probably think I'm insane now, but I know...I can have this strong sense someone is thinking of me and then tehy'll call me or I'll call them and they'll say, "wow, so weird I was just thinking of you". I have never been closer to anyone in my life than my H, so I'm pretty sure I know he was.

Crazy, b/c today the day that I filed the response has been the most hopeful day of all; don't get me wrong it was heartwrenching too and i fell forced. But I know he's thinking of me and I know the OW is getting worried. I know this A is falling apart quickly. BUT what I don't know is how I could ever take him back were he to come home...I bet that's his fear too. I love him, but can't stand the thought of her touching him. Don't know how I could trust that he'd never see her again. So, in a way; although I know he's thinking of me, it feels hopeless. Geez, the D is nearly done.

Betcha she gets herself prego real quick in order to keep him.

There is also a running theme in this message - apart from the "I am perfect and right and you should just wither up and go away"

"WH loves DS dearly and he thinks of DS as his son. That relationship is something completely separate from you and WH's relationship. He wants to be a part of DS's life"

"he wants you and DS to move on"

"He'd like DS to remain in his life"

"I don't hate DS"

"I would never try to sabotage DS and WH's relationship"
"Just try to think of DS in all of this and try to help him understand that even if WH doesn't love you anymore it has zero to do with how he feels for him."

I don't remember you ever particularly singling out DS in any of the exposure messages which suggests to me that his separation from DS is something that weights heavily on him. I believe she will have or already has shown that letter to WH and all these "I love DS really and so want to be his new mummy" " points are not for your or even DS's benefit, but to build herself up in his eyes. I think that DS might be one of the conflict points in affairville.

I agree with Pepperbands assessment that she is trying to show herself in some sort of freakish, sick, guiding light, 'lets all get along and share the love and tell me how wonderful I am way.'

This is not a letter to make you feel better, its a letter to make her feel better, to absolve herself from some of her guilt. "see, I tried to be grown up about it".

Do not answer it. In fact I like Peppers other suggestion:


"Please tell your adultery partner, her services are not welcome."

Services Subtle - very subtle.

If he ever says this to you again, respond with something like "it doesn't have to be like this. Why don't we leave it for a bit and wait. How we feel today might not be how we feel in a couple of months time. We can always divorce later"

I used something similar on my DD when she wanted to adopt out her son. 4 weeks later and he's back living with his mummy after having a wee holiday with the coolest Mema in the world

Kayak, Actually, when my H first went to Illinois and I realized he was lying to me I bought the Love Dare book and was preparing to do the whole thing when he came home. But he never came home.

I actually gave the book to a mutual friend of my H and I, a married man who hit on me while my H was gone. I told him no and avoided him until my H left me, at which point I messaged him and told him not to give up (I knew his M was in trouble too) and I didn't want to see anyone go through this pain. I dropped the book of on his MIL's porch for him to get. It really helped him save his marriage. His MIL and I are very good friends, and I am friends with his W. I told them both what transpired MIL thought it was beautiful and W was upset about the situation, but thankful for the book and said it really helped save thier M.

Funny though because I did try a few days. When WH finally returned from Illinois, he called and asked if he could come by and see us and that he'd get some firewood and wrok on finishing the insulation. One of the dares was to do something unexpected, that you normally wouldn't do. Well, I'm very clostrophobic and there are scorpions under the house, so I'd never go under to do the insulation. I told him that he could come by and do that, and that I'd help if he wanted me too. He wrote back saying I was insane and that he wasn't coming by at all. My friend; the MIL, said he probably thought I was going to bury him under the house, lol! Must've been his guilty conscience b/c at that point he had put all the blame on me and i had NO idea that there was an affair.

Lil, I think you're spot on! Although and like I said earlier how ironic it is for her to say she knows what it's like to be a single mom and the financial aspects of it..Barf, barf, barf!!! She married right out of high school and has been married since until two months ago. She D her H who has PhD. She got a good settlement and likely great child support and alimony forever. She has been with my H since before the D was final, so seriously what the F does she know about struggling and being a single mom. I went through pregnancy and birth alone, having an infant alone (zero sleep), no money. The audacity blows my mind and it's all I can do to not respond and tell her a few things. I can say this...she had better hope she never sees me face to face. It's probably good she lives halfway across the country. Trying to tell me what high moral values she has and how to mother my child; makes me want to SCREAM!!! I know in the end I will be the one smiling, so that gives me solace. But right now grrrrr!

Lil, I tried the wait a while thing....Nope! She has him P-whipped. I think he may be getting his fill and realing there is more to life...we will see. But the BIG question is can I ever get over it? How much abuse am I willing to take?

Only you can answer that.

You don't know what's happening over there, and I can actually say that from experience. Just stick to your plan, be the better person until you have had enough. You have done nothing wrong and its your choice when to stop.

There is no point in making contact with her, she'll only hear what she wants to.

I used to think if I saw PQ I'd smack her one, but I actually read a great story on here once from a FWW. She saw the BW somewhere and the BW just looked her up and down then dismissed her as a person of no value. The FWW said it could not have hit her harder than if the BW had decked her.

I have been practising my 'dismissed' look ever since

Actually Lil, I perfected that look as a teenager, along with a little lip quiver of disquist. Works amazingly! BTW signing up on YM.

Lil, I think if he truly came home with sincerity, I may be able to eventually recover over time, but right now...and with the wh**e having the nerve to write me on signing day, ugh! Just too much! But...I do know my H and wayyyyy better than she thinks she does and I know the REAL him. She doesn't know that person. I guess I hold some hope, but I'm so injured, it would take sooooomuch.

Thats one of the reasons for going into plan B. By not getting hurt emotionally by the waywards activities, a nucleus of love remains and thats what Dr Harley believes we can fan into the love we used to have for our spouses.

I have to say tho, recovery is not for the faint hearted. Its harder work that even plan A IMHO, because in plan A you get the occasional break from them

Yeah, the first affair I really brushed off. It's so different when you wait and miss and worry about your H in a war zone and then he comes home and just disappears. To me it was the most painful experience in my entire life. I'm not faint hearted, but I do know that leaving her behind would mean leaving all his childhood friends behind. Which he did for our whole marriage, he knew they would pull him back into alcohol and they have. It's a whole fog of it's own.

I know, right?
Every now and then, a small spark of evil genius double entendre.

This part I also thought ironic...

"I would never try to sabotage DS and WH's relationship."

Oh yeah...that I believe, especially since she has had NO problem sabotaging my H and my relationship.

God, it's been three months and still anytime I think about it I have to run and throw up. I can barely eat or sleep; I wake up at night from nightmares covered in sweat. Everyone says I'll be a stronger person for it, but I really see no light at the end of this hellatious tunnel. The email didn't help at all! Who TF emails the person they destroyed on the day they have to sign away thier marriage and say what high moral values they have?

There IS a light at the end of the seemingly hellacious tunnel!

You are still plan Aing and it is hard from afar. Good job though.

Now, practice plan B-ing in your mind. By that I mean, treat WH with zero lovebusting when interacting in any way BUT when not interacting with him, disengage from trying to control things. Don't try to figure out what he is thinking, feeling, doing.
Get involved in interesting activities and join groups of young, fun people. Maybe get a 'Big Brother' for your son to fill in the WH gap.

You must know that we all relate to the trouble sleeping and wanting to vomit part. It is nature's way of reminding us we are human and part of an emotional species. Fiddle sticks.

It might be time soon to send that mushy love letter known as the plan B letter and going dark. When you do send it, make sure it gets WH's signature on delivery since OW might get it and make it dissapear otherwise.

Plan B is really Plan Life. Plan "I'm not part of this drama you created", Plan "I am not to be defined by others treatment of me".

It is a good plan to wait out the situation of life.

Thanks reading...I think I've blown plan A a few times though. Any suggestions on the plan B letter writing?

You can write it and have it ready for when you are ready.

My advice with it is

1. buy some pretty, old fashioned stationary. The kind with matching envelopes. They still sell it at places like Target and misc. other stores.

2. write it out in your best handwriting (even if you are rusty at this it will be more personal and powerful)

3. look in the Surviving An Affair book at the example and change it as it fits your marriage situation.

4. hold onto it after writing and think of revisions or to look it over to feel satisfied with it AND when you are about to give it.....make a copy on a copy machine for your records

5. send a email version to OW about a week AFTER you send WH's to him with the note to her as mentioned in SAA. That way she knows it ain't over yet.


Then, go dark. Super dark.


Since your son is his stepson you don't need to worry about making mention of how to handle children being passed back and forth. You might mention in the love letter part how you and your son are in love with him though.

She has rewritten her own values and morals in order to make her skanky, adulterous ways acceptable. I'd laugh at her email if it wasn't so pathetic. I was going to dissect it, but Pep did a delightful job. The OW has lost touch with reality in order to achieve her selfish and shallow goals. Karma. It's a beeotch. She'll find that out.

Take care of yourself, E. Be good to yourself. Treat yourself. You are so important. I know how it is to put yourself second to the affair (I lost 55 pounds. Okay, okay, maybe 10-15 of that needed to go, point being I took the A out on myself and punished myself for my H's idiot decision.)Try not to do that, okay?

Thanks marital! I'll do ...BIG problems though...I need feedback. I exposed on FB. Today the Sherriff came and confiscated my weapons and gave me a restraining order; included...the exposure letter and the names of all I sent it to. I have to go to court Monday. F**k!!!! Sorry...

It says, the RO.."sent emails to my friend OW's friends and family accusing OW of infidelity and calling her derogatory names. Some of the accusations have been posted on internet sites, such as Facebook, and can be read by the public at large. Her actions have directly affected OW socially and professionally, and have caused great distress."

I'm no lawyer, but I believe in any slander/libel case, the truth is an absolute defense...

What exactly did your exposure letter say? Was it the one you posted here, or did you send something else that could be construed as name calling and derogatory?

No,it was the one I posted here. I did write to my H saying that I thought she was a homewrecker and sk**k. But those were personal emails.

so you could print them out and have them as evidence for the courts. I believe the judge will not be overly surprised that you initially made some less than nice comments, under the 'stress of the moment, finding out about this life changing event, breakdown of your marriage'. It all rests on how it is portrayed.

Then show the exposure letter and print out an explanation from MB explaining how exposure is a recommended tool, and Dr Harley is an expert in the area of infidelity

In fact I apologised to PQ (as much as it galled me) for exactly those reasons. If it came to court, I wanted the judge to see me as the nice sane one and the infidels as the nutso's.

Strategy is everything in this game.

Well,

I'll be ....... you hit a bull's eye!

It obviously is causing the adulterer's more embarrassment than anyone let on!

Touche.

Sorry about the restraining order BUT you were planning on going dark soon anyway, right?

Hope all goes well when you answer to the order.

Could it be possible that your WH has lied to OW and she actually THINKS he is a divorced man?
Given some of the exposure comments, she may believe she is being accused rather than an active participant. Makes some sense to me. GF

Thanks Lil, but I was advised here not to respond to her; geez none the less apologise!!! Cringe-cringe!


Yes Reading...I already was planning to do a dark B.

Going...Did I not post her lette admitting that we are still married?

BRING the email OW sent (the one you posted here) when you go to court.
It is evidence she is not afraid of you.

Sometimes WS say things and we really wish we had a response that really makes them look at what they are saying and determin its truth.

oh, I wasn't suggesting you contact OW, she can go service someone, I was just saying that presenting yourself as sane is a good thing in court.

I only apologised for losing my temper, I never apologised for the exposure or the abuse I wrote on her social networking page , What she chose to believe was her own to do

It is also evidence that you are NOT harassing her. YOU never responded to her email.

I'd bring a copy of your son's email to his dad to court also.
Proof of the family in ruins.

Thanks Pep! I will do that. I am thinking of also contacting the CPS worker. My WH called them on me and they came 3 times. The last time the worker told me that she was SURE he just did it to hurt me and said she's closing the case. Maybe she can help or attest to the emotional/physical abuse we have endured, or give her opinion or something..

Good idea!

The RO is granted only if there is sufficient evidence that OW is in fear of her life or that you are "slandering" her. Nothing in your exposure letter was untrue. The Judge hopefully will see her for what she is and wouldn't it be cool if the Judge had actually heard of Dr. Harley and Marriage Builders? OTOH, so what if the RO is granted, no skin off your nose, the exposure is already done. Right?

OW is panicking... trying everything within her power to make you look bad. In Court, you are calm, cool and collective (SANE) while OW will be loud, argumentative, finger-pointing (BUT NOT AFRAID). When the Judge puts two and two together, my guess is he'll grant the RO with a wink but that'll be all OW gets.

You could file a cross-RO, asking the Judge to prevent OW from emailing and harassing you with her distressful and UNTRUE emails.

K Princess...OW won't be there. Just the attorney. The skin off my nose is that they took $1,000's of dollars in guns. Apparently my WH said he was worried I was going to kill myself or hurt them. He left me towards the end of October...If I wanted to do something like that, I have had more than 3 months to do so. OW and WH are almost all the way across the country from me, so it's simply implausable that they should be afraid for thier lives. This whole thing is so stupid.

Well, I went. WH's attorney told me that the judge was likely going to reschedule since I was only given two days notice. She also said she was going to talk to WH about dropping it.

Is there any article by Dr. Harley that suggests exposure to end an affair?

Take a look in the Newsletters forum.

Here's one from there:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2266646#Post2266646

Thank you Fred! I looked all throught the articles..I knew I saw it somewhere...

Just as a helpful hint to anyone reading who wants to search for something on this site: Google is your friend.

Here's how I found what ExpectsAMiracle was looking for:

Using Google -->"Harley" "exposure" site:marriagebuilders.com

The list of returned results typically has what I'm looking for within the top five "hits."

LOL! Funny, last term I took an internet search class....Unfortunately, this time I just used the MB search and it yeilded no results.

Thanks again Fred!!! You're an angel!

Okay, I need some opinions here please... I've been working on my defense for the restraining order. The timing of it all seems really weird to me.

I told WH attorney that I was going to sign the agreement on the 5th.

That morning I received the first coorespondence from OW saying how much WH wanted to be a part of my son's life (he's not his real father)

I didn't respond to her, but wrote my WH saying I didn't trust him and that any coorespondence with me needed to be through his attorney or my mom. I also relayed from my son that he didn't want to see him if he was with OW.

I signed the agreement.

The next day (Feb 6th) the Sherriff comes to my house and gives me the RO and takes all our guns. The RO was dated Feb 29th and OW name was included on it. I'm fairly certain she has financed his attorney and i know he is living with her, so I know she must know about the RO; likely it was her idea.

Here's my question...There is one part in her email that makes me feel like they were holding the RO or something and when I didn't agree that WH could see DS, they slammed me with it. I don't know if that could be a defnse, but the timing is very odd to me.

Here's the portion I'm referring to..."You know WH has a good heart and he is the person you know he is, he's not out to hurt either of you. He'd like DS to remain in his life, if you'll allow it. It doesn't have to be this way."

"It doesn't have to be this way"????

Weird to me because prior to this letter I had let WH see DS whenever he wanted. DS was fine with it until he found out that WH had moved across country and in with OW. He doesn't want to seethem together and I won't force him to.

So, do you all think the "It doesn't have to be this way" thing was like saying, "If you let WH see DS, then we won't serve to RO"?

It seems so to me, but I just need second opinions as I don't want to look like a fool in court. It's me against the attorney. WH and OW won't be there.

No, I don't.

Thanks Pep...Just with the timing of it all it seemed so, especially since I had never not let WH see DS.

She's not that smart.

See part of the RO took the guns. I don't care too much for guns, but two of them were my sons; although registered in my WH name. My WH knows how much those mean to DS, and he can now claim them and use them as bribes to convince DS to spend time with he and OW.

DS won't do it though...he says if he never sees his guns again, then WH won't ever see him again even if he and OW break up.

You're right Pep. But why write me the day before the RO is served? Even the judge said it wasn't served in time. WH lawyer said people were sick, so it took a week...I just feel the RO is a weapon.

Seriously, a RO? You would think that would be a priority for the Sherriffs office in a rural community. It's not like I'm in the city here. Should it really take a week?

Bring all your evidence to court.
Have it organized under tabs, so you can find stuff quickly.
Emails.
Journals.
Financials.
It would be useful for you to construct a timeline of events.

Your attitude will say things to the judge.
Calm.
Respectful.
Attentive.
Not argumentative.
Listen to the opposition's attorney without showing any negative reaction. (You need to be the epitome of serenity)
Listen to the judge. Especially when being asked a question. Answer the question, without going on and on.
If the judge asks a "yes or not" question, answer it that way, if possible.
Ask if you may elaborate, if you want to say more.
Ask for details to be clarified if you are not certain what is being asked/said.
When appropriate, smile.
Keep your arms unfolded and your hands relaxed.

My prayers will be with you.

I have no idea.

Try to anticipate questions.
Have comments/responses ready, "in your pocket".

Start today.
Write out the possible questions and answers.
Such as:

What do you think the judge will ask you about the guns?
Who bought them?
Where are they kept?
Where is the ammunition kept?
Are they licensed? To whom?
Have you taken firearm safety training?
When was the last time you used the guns?
What is your purpose for keeping the guns in your home?

See what I mean?
Anticipate the possible questions.

Not just about the guns, but about any correspondence you sent.

Why did you contact OW's FB friends?
Did you say anything that was false?
Show me (the judge) exactly what you said.
Etc.

Also, ask the judge if the email OW sent you , essentially waving your husband's betrayal in your face, would constitute a valid RO against her.
Do NOT ask the judge to read into her email anything that is not written. It won't work in court (just fun on this board).

Another question likely to be asked.

"Have you ever threatened bodily harm to OW?

Thanks Pep...I could use the prayers...and I will do all those things. I've been to court before and know how to behave. The last time I went (for this), I think his attorney was surprised, as he had made me out to be a monster. We'll see what happens. I'm not worried about never having contact; frankly I really don't want to. I'm more concerned about the guns; thier value, and the effect having them taken is having on my son...he was counting the days until he could go hunting with my bro.

What I learned to do when I want to disarm the enemy in person, I greet them warmly and give a firm two-handed handshake. Hold their right hand with both hands. Just for a second.

"Hello counselor. I am looking forward to getting this settled today."
Then, walk to your side.



Do you think WH wants the guns for himself? Perhaps that's the only purpose of this stupid RO?
Weird.